Yes I am, for the life of me I cannot figure out how someone that takes the effort to respond, does it in such a myopic way.

Haha. Yeah, I’m myopic for looking and trying to understand what is happening with competitors versus looking at one number and trying to justify my own narrative through it. Silly me.

We were discussing end state. This is not the end state. No matter how disappointed you are now, that doesn’t say anything about their strategy.

Here’s the disconnect. I’m talking about what I have as a customer. Isn’t it convenient to say. Don’t worry N900 users, your platform has no future but we’ll make sure the next one is fixed. The problem is that they’ve done that with the N810, N800 and N770. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome (my simplistic definition). There is no reason for me to believe that after MeeGo there won’t be another shift for Nokia. Their track record proves it and they have made no statement to the contrary. You can want them to all you’d like but the facts don’t change.

I’ve bought Nokia for 14 years and have been disappointed in recent years with their lack of execution. I won’t buy another Nokia devices in the near future. How does that strategy help me? Yes I’m myopic. I bought a phone that has no future. Should I be happy for Nokia?

This says it all really. The only thing that counts is now in strategy?

Let me try it again. The only thing that counts is execution

And even better “my stance now is….” Those very words indicate you are skeptical and negative, and you lack the depth of insight to see why today is different from yesterday. All you manage to do are shallow extrapolations.

BINGO. Because I used to be like you. I believed the hype. 14 years of Nokia devices. I almost bought the N97 and decided on the N900. I’m tired of promises.

Sure, number of downloads top 3. App Store, GetJar, Ovi. No Market in there.

That’s right. I forget, you don’t care about money. Maybe they’re still no. 3 in revenue. Can you show that too? As a developer shouldn’t you care about that? Maybe you’re the exception and are making a killing on the OVI store. I’m curious if they’ve been able to monetize all those downloads.

I am asking you to look in the future. What do you think will happen.

I have no idea. Some people are good at future visioning. I’m about execution. That’s what I’m discussing. Yes this thread is too long.

This says it all really. The only thing that counts is now in strategy? And even better “my stance now is….” Those very words indicate you are skeptical and negative, and you lack the depth of insight to see why today is different from yesterday. All you manage to do are shallow extrapolations.

“Haha, a bit of an understatement about not being user friendly. Do you have any numbers to show that the OVI store is more successful? Would love to see that.”

Sure, number of downloads top 3. App Store, GetJar, Ovi. No Market in there.

“Hmm. How can it be more successful about the Android Marketplace if many don’t know about it. Just about EVERY Android user knows about their Marketplace, of my friends at least.”

Installed base. Even with the horrid experience, Nokia sells so many devices that the small percentage of users that can find the store make it a success. It proves the potential for an improved experience in Ovi.

“So I’ll concede a point maybe they did see it coming but they sure didn’t respond like it.”

I am happy you concede points when you think I concede as well. Very mature.:)

“Do I fundamentally disagree with their pace and what was their final strategy?”

Pace yes, but you do not understand their final strategy

Since hindsight is indeed 20/20, I am asking you to look in the future. What do you think will happen. How does Nokia’s strategy fit in there. Will it be apps all the way in the next few years? Are we going to see spec driven wars, price wars? How would you use Nokia’s strong points and what would you do to improve their weak points. Do not give me a link to some other guys opinion. ( Which I know well)

Lets just leave it this point, perhaps just answer my last question. This thread has become long enough

“Haha. Yeah, $5.3B in high-end smartphone revenue. Totally irrelevant in a discussion about being competitive in high-end smartphones”

Sigh. Silly you.

“. You’re not tired of me repeating the same stuff yet? ”

Yes I am, for the life of me I cannot figure out how someone that takes the effort to respond, does it in such a myopic way.
“Yeah, as an N900 consumer I should care about a platform that I doesn’t yet exist which might be upgradeable to a version that again won’t be supported on my phone. I’m so silly to care about my current phone and the fact that it has no upgradeability in the future besides minor updates.
Are you sure you have your user hat on.”

We were discussing end state. This is not the end state. No matter how disappointed you are now, that doesn’t say anything about their strategy.

5.3B is not bad for 14% of one segment.
> But irrelevant.

Haha. Yeah, $5.3B in high-end smartphone revenue. Totally irrelevant in a discussion about being competitive in high-end smartphones

> How much money is Google making from Android then, or their App store, or those huge quantities of Nexus 1 sales? Androids success is through HTC & Samsung. Nokia is the only one still doing hardware, software, content in a meaningful way, until we have Bada all grown up.

Google has a different approach. They make money through search and ads. Android is their vehicle for doing that. Ultimately if that is successful I don’t know, but if they can make Billions out of silly text ads at the side of web pages my guess is they’ll figure out how to make money here.

Your answers are becoming shorter and shallower.

Lol. Yeah, these comments really need to get longer. You’re not tired of me repeating the same stuff yet?

> Its not here now, again thanks for pointing out the obvious. My point was, today is not the end state of the changes Nokia is making. Yes we lose S60 apps as soon as S^4 is here, but Qt apps will work on all of the platforms from then on. We can’t update Maemo to MeeGo officially, but what matters is if we will be able to go from MeeGo 1.0 to 2.0 when the time comes.

Yeah, as an N900 consumer I should care about a platform that I doesn’t yet exist which might be upgradeable to a version that again won’t be supported on my phone. I’m so silly to care about my current phone and the fact that it has no upgradeability in the future besides minor updates.
Are you sure you have your user hat on.

Everything I have said was from the perspective of a consumer, which I am, and I have repeatedly mentioned consumer in my reasoning.

So you like the Maemo strategy and transition to MeeGo. Wow, Nokia must lover consumers like you.

> How are you offended by me stating that Qt apps on S^3 S^4 & MeeGo will look better than shoddy java trinkets, like the stuff we see on S60?

My comment was probably harsher than it needed to be, sorry about that. My point again for the millionth time is that fanboys keep touting the past and the future. I used to believe in Nokia’s promises until I realized they DON’T deliver. So for now my stance is, show me the goods. Otherwise, I’ll leave you to your opinion because from what I see of current QT apps, if their parallel universe twin was submitted to the Apple App store, they’d get laughed out of town. I’m not saying it won’t or couldn’t be good. I just won’t believe it until I see it.

> It has worked to the point that Ovi store is more successful than the Android Market currently. I think the Ovi store hasn’t been particularly user friendly,

Haha, a bit of an understatement about not being user friendly. Do you have any numbers to show that the OVI store is more successful? Would love to see that.

nor have Nokia smartphone users been very aware of the store.

Hmm. How can it be more successful about the Android Marketplace if many don’t know about it. Just about EVERY Android user knows about their Marketplace, of my friends at least.

I agree they should have responded more quickly though.

I’m glad you agree with me. What you just stated is execution. So I’ll concede a point maybe they did see it coming but they sure didn’t respond like it.

After thousands of words dismissing their strategy, claiming they have none, claiming its wrong, claiming all kinds of things, after I explain why theirs is sensible,

Well, hindsight is 20/20 right? Was I too hyperbolic in saying they had NO strategy? Sure. Do I fundamentally disagree with their pace and what was their final strategy? Absolutely. What would I have done differently? I would have focused their product line faster and tried to do fewer things but better.
Check out:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/22/nokia_manifesto_risku/
Like I said, lack of execution.

5.3B is not bad for 14% of one segment.

> But irrelevant.

I’m thinking of the modern notion of the touch interface.

> So was I. Google it.

That’s catchy. You don’t want the rights do you?

> You can’t pluck feathers from a frog. Is that an expression in English as well?

Except Google.

> How much money is Google making from Android then, or their App store, or those huge quantities of Nexus 1 sales? Androids success is through HTC & Samsung. Nokia is the only one still doing hardware, software, content in a meaningful way, until we have Bada all grown up. Your answers are becoming shorter and shallower.

I use the N900 so clearly am not the average user.

> Which is why I quoted that back to you and why you equating bleeding edge tech with high end means dick all for the market and the general consumer.

It is. The discussion was Maemo -> Harmattan -> MeeGo. Unless you can tell me that Meego will be forwards / backwards compatible with Harmattan and then with meeGo, I think that’s pretty much the end result. Feel free to enlighten me on the Maemo to MeeGo transition and how that is better than the iPhone 3 version upgrade situation.

> Its not here now, again thanks for pointing out the obvious. My point was, today is not the end state of the changes Nokia is making. Yes we lose S60 apps as soon as S^4 is here, but Qt apps will work on all of the platforms from then on. We can’t update Maemo to MeeGo officially, but what matters is if we will be able to go from MeeGo 1.0 to 2.0 when the time comes.

You still have the UI layer and incompatibilities between S^3 and S^4 and MeeGo. I can’t tell you if its better or worse. It’s different. At least Android can use tools like Eclips.

> Its fine if you can’t tell me that, because I told you it is.

BINGO. I get it now, you’re not a consumer. All you care about is volume of users. See, as a consumer I care about the ecosystem with more apps. You don’t like that because that’s competition for you. I see why we are on different sides. Makes sense.

> You didn’t get anything. Everything I have said was from the perspective of a consumer, which I am, and I have repeatedly mentioned consumer in my reasoning. Only here in this last part I took another perspective as well.

Hey now, put up or shut up. The few QT apps I’ve seen so far are disappointing at the least and ugly to boot, so let’s not start calling the kettle black unless you have proof to back up your claims.

> How are you offended by me stating that Qt apps on S^3 S^4 & MeeGo will look better than shoddy java trinkets, like the stuff we see on S60?

And how has that app market worked for the hundreds of millions of S60 based phones. That should be a strong indicator right?

> It has worked to the point that Ovi store is more successful than the Android Market currently. I think the Ovi store hasn’t been particularly user friendly, nor have Nokia smartphone users been very aware of the store. The latest phones, and the new ones coming out, have a much better Ovi experience. Also, the N8 is the first in a long time with a proper GPU, so some real games can be developed for it (instead of shoddy stuff). I think the S^3 based devices will on average download more content from Ovi than he S60 devices.

Sleeping at the wheel was a reference to them not seeing the shift in technology happen right in front of them. In many ways though its more about being able to execute rather than coming up with the perfect strategy.

> What does that even mean? “them not seeing the shift in technology happen right in front of them”. That’s lunacy. Mobile Gaming, Touch screen devices, all that stuff Nokia was doing already. They were fully aware of all of those concepts. Apple comes out with a great device, that is a much better implementation of existing ideas, and then all of a sudden the rest of the world did not see a shift in technology. How is it a shift that you can see happen when it is instant? I agree they should have responded more quickly though.

More importantly, and pivotal to our discussion, is this: “In many ways though its more about being able to execute rather than coming up with the perfect strategy”. After thousands of words dismissing their strategy, claiming they have none, claiming its wrong, claiming all kinds of things, after I explain why theirs is sensible, after I counter your claims, after I ask you to outline your own view, you say exactly nothing.

Do me a favor, only respond to his if you really plan on doing some analysis of their strategy here yourself. I enjoy discussing this topic, but not if you only respond to half of the stuff I write or if you don’t propose what they could have done better, how their strategy will fail or succeed and why, and what part is execution and what part is vision. Again, I need to quote you: “put up or shut up”

If there’s anything I’ve learned from watching Apple in recent months is that they are unpredictable and more often than not have a way of beating expectations.

I think its fair to say though that we can agree to disagree.

At the end of the day I hope they both do well. An ecosystem with
Apple, Google and Nokia means we the consumers win. I don’t know what that means for you as an application developer but as a consumer having the choice of three heavy hitters trying to outdo each other for the best in mobile technology is well, not a bad place to be.

I doubt this antenna crap is going to have much of an effect. Sheep will be sheep, and the less geeky people I’ve come across still aspire to own one as if it is the be all and end all of mobile phones. I’ve grown very tired of explaining how it’s not.

Still want an answer to my other question….

It’s an interesting point but not relevant. Some quarters are naturally lower than others, there are cycles within the year when it comes to volume. YoY is more interesting. Apple also had an abnormally good Q1 because of non-US sales. Look at Tomi’s analysis. It freaked him out, so I’m not surprised that unit volume adjusted back to normal for Q2. Fact remains, nothing indicates there will be a YoY decline in future quarters.

Jack :
It was touted loud that Apple sold 1.7M iPhone 4 devices is three days. In three days, Nokia sells over 3M devices, and Samsung around 2 million devices. And that sales happens every day, all year round.

Are you really comparing the performance of one product to an entire company’s lineup of phones? Really?

It has been also reported that operators are making losses because of iPhone. And now with the antenna flaw, which hits directly operator bottom line

Yeah, who wants to be part of a phone that sells in the millions and requires an expensive voice and data plan just to make it work. Losers.

iPhone has fans, but it is becoming old. The sales is growing now only in the US.

Their numbers above are that much more impressive because its for one country(so far) not the entire world like Nokia.

And yes, former phones are becoming computer devices. But for some reason, Apple still requires that you connect your phone to a computer before it is activated?

That’s one of the reasons I really like Android. Nokia is nowhere near that from what I can tell

Maybe N900 device from Nokia is better?

Wow, did you really just say that?

Nokia was a computer maker 20 years ago, but that business was sold because mobile was far better opportunity.

Apple market cap in the $200+Billions. Nokia $33B. Hmmm. Yeah, no one makes money in computers.

Google is more interesting new player

Here I totally agree. You can’t ignore Apple but Android is more like that of Nokia.