Nokia Q4 2011 results. Well over 1 million lumia devices sold
Hey guys, got an exam to go to right now but this is pretty big news. It’s the Nokia Q4 2011 results.
- Well over 1 Million lumia devices sold.
Not sure I’m reading it right, but it says 884M operating profit?Argh. Update. Looking at the wrong column.
- 19.6M smartphones, 17% increase over last quarter
- 93.9M featurephones, 5% increase over last quarter
http://www.results.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2011Q4e.pdf
Sorry I can’t read the whole thing and write up properly, seriously was just going to leave the house for the exam :S. Laters 
Category: Nokia
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Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and facebook.com/MyNokiaBlog. Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.comSubscribe
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Interesting.
The sales of 19.6 million will mainly be lower end Symbian according to that ASP with the bulk of the increase from last quarter coming from N9 and some 800 sales. The N9 will probably have sold more than the Lumia 800 given its earlier release date and number of markets, but the reality is that demand for it has now been met so that’s as good as it gets.
The Lumia range will have sold about 1.3 million to date. That’s good but, since that allows for sales in January, isn’t great. I still, as mentioned yesterday, doubt more than a million Lumia 800s were sold to year end.
However, the good news is that Nokia have indeed created a beachhead with the Lumia devices. The real test now is whether they can hold or expand it which we’ll know by Q2/Q3.
Symbian… well, it was fun at the time but it’s over now. Outplayed and outclassed by cheaper Android phones – particularly the budget Samsung Galaxy models – unfortunately.
Interesting times ahead!
Mark how many sold N9 numbers did you expected and how many do you expect now?
Seams to me that the report indicates something like 2 million N9′s, just for the math to add up…
I’d go with 2 million, perhaps slightly more. What would interest me more is how it did in January.
We agree….
I also belive that the LUmias will sell ok in the US if the price is as advertised, (3-5 millions for Q2-Q3) (but don’t see a huge profit marging for nokia there, NOKIA needs to keep seeling N9′s as its the only device that delivers really decent margins)
Interesting as the assassinated platform, might give Nokia some oxygen to survive a few more months.
Apparently more bad news for the LUMIA, with the sales in the UK under performing, UK being a good indicator of US interest…
I expected the UK to be a weak market precisely because it is the most Americanised of the UK markets. The phone of choice here is the iPhone 4S with the SGS II behind and then a host of Balckberry models. In fairness, Symbian and the N9 would be absolute toast over here too.
The US might be slightly different as they’ve gone in with the 710 which isn’t aimed at the top end, rather the mid market.
Hard times ahead. That said, I know of two people who have bought 800s after playing with mine. Both were iPhone users. I guess that’s how it starts – establish a beachhead, evangelise and slowly pick up mindshare.
European, not UK! Arrgh!
i can tell you how it did in january in austria. i think very bad. you now why?
you can’t get the n9 at any operator here anymore. it’s like the device hadn’t existed anytime.
instead you see heavy promotion on the lumia. tv, webstores of the operators etc…
pull out a sucessful device and bring a something os that was proven to be not sucessful – thats nokia!
Are you for real?
Lumia,
Heavy promoting: commercials, posters at busstops carrier promoting, retailers promoting.
Most heaviest promoting ever done for a nokia phone!
+
Released in the biggest smartphone markets (US excluded) where nokia and microsoft considered themselves to be strong as a brand
+
Low price
+
Christmas season most lucrative season in the world!
=
Only 1.3m Sales?!?!?!?!
its a joke
Nokia N9,
Promoted DEAD, no real to actually no promoting at all.
Freaking high price.
Released in small markets with few people with disposable money WILLING to spend 1000US dollars on A PHONE.
Almost doubles the sales of the lumia?????
FREAKING SUCCES
You’re interested in N9 sales Q1 2012? Well there’s no fair comparison after Q4 2011 because lumia will get (and already has) expanded to more markets and the N9 won’t.
Let it be reminded that the 1.3 lumia sales is JANUARY INCLUDED.
That means the release in the US was counted.
That means the lumia may not have reached 1 million sales at the end of Q4 AT ALL.
Good points.
Mark is not the worse WP fan here, he usually post sensible, arguments, based on truth.
He as been saying that only Q2-Q3 will be worth noticing for Lumias Future…
Think only path to NOKIA is to sell the N9/N950 now in all markets and try to get some profits out of that in order to survive up until Q2-Q3.
Fact remains and even Mark seams to agree that N9 sales were phenomenal and are the single only bit of good news in the report.
The said bit in the report was that eventhough the lumias were sold:
- At a very low price
- with very heavy promoting (buy a lumia get a free xbox!)
- The most lucrative season on the planet
- Released in the biggest smartphone markets (US excluded) where nokia and microsoft considered themselves to be strong as a brand.
And the coulnt get more than 1.3 million units sold.
Yeah Q2-Q3 will be interesting yes, as there wont be any N9 sales or little. There’s a small buyersgroup for the N9 and it’s probably almost filled.
Actually if you have followed the biggest European markets (Germany, France and UK), Nokia lost its traction with Symbian. Totally. Italy and Spain are still going pretty well.
So I would say, that Lumia were launched to very difficult markets and I am surprised how well it has taken in. Except UK seems a bit too Yankee so perhaps bringing Lumia 800 where almost a bit mistake. Should have waited and launched Lumia 900 together with US
Jesus, there is not edit. I writing like a drunken monkey.
But anyhow, I think UK will be pleased with Lumia 900.
Well, yes…
The Lumia has been released in six markets for a period of 8 or 9 weeks (it wasn’t freely available in the UK until end November for a start). Anyone who thought there would be multi-million sales in this time period against the iPhone 4S and SGS II is delusional. I said this at the time – this is about establishing a niche and then seeing if it can be exploited. It remains to be seen if it can but the initial signs are broadly positive.
The N9 on the other hand has been sold in 26 countries for over 12 weeks, one of which is China. It will have sold over 2 million units and most of those will be to Nokia fans. What would be interesting to see is the sales rate in January as I doubt that it will be good. There is evidence of this from Denmark where initial sales of the 800 have outstripped the N9 and, surprisingly, the N8.
As for ‘no promotion’, that’s patently false as this example shows.
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/11/18/video-nokia-n9-unfollow-ad-china/
There are many others in the appropriate markets.
The N9 is a hero device to some but it hasn’t captured the public’s imagination in the same way the N8 failed to do so. You could equally argue that for WP but there is a clearer strategy here and the products/ecosystem to deliver. That said, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
The point is Symbian is near dead, MeeGo was never going to make it and WP is very ill but might pull through. Which one would you bet on? I mean you could include Android in that equation but Samsung appear to be dominating there and HTC, Sony, Moto and others are starting to feel that domination in terms of their own dropping sales and products.
It’s great the N9 has sold two million units. I think it’s a great device. However, those sales will not be to average punters because ultimately despite its gorgeous UI it’s simply another grid based UI like the iPhone but without the iPhone’s ecosystem. Nokia’s choice is to differentiate and it’s not going to do that with Android or MeeGo (for different reasons obviously).
You can either support that vision and be optimisitc or mourn for lost opportunities which arrived too late – had the N8 been out in early 2010 with Belle and the N9 in late 2010 things may have been very different – but they weren’t.
Glass half full or half empty. Your choice really.
And, whilst I’m here…
I don’t get the Elop hatred. Really, I don’t. Ok, the leaking of his burning platform memo was a dumb move but the point remains that Symbian needed to be pensioned off.
If you want the real culprits for Nokia’s demise then you need to cast your mind back to 2007 when Nokia completely failed to react to the iPhone, only eventually getting round to releasing the disastrous N97 – and I use that word without exaggeration, I have three friends who bought it. All now use iPhones and wouldn’t touch a Nokia with a shitty stick again – in 2009. 2009, over two years after the original iPhone.
This is the same crew who saw the high end Symbian market destroyed, who managed the share price from $40 to $8, who destroyed the ASP and just about killed the company’s bargaining position with carriers by flooding them with below cost 5800 variants like the Nuron in the US.
You want the real villains in this piece? Look at OPK and his cronies because they’re the ones who nearly killed the company. Any competent board would have had the N8 out in early 2010. You know, when it should have been out) with Belle and a Maemo 6 (not bloody MeeGo and that stupid joint venture with Intel, but their own OS) handset like the N9 out later in the year.
Elop’s performance remains to be seen. If he manages to restore some of Nokia’s fortunes with WP then he will have been a smart appointment. If he fails then we can castigate him for it.
But understand this: OPK and his cronies had already failed spectacularly and the damage was done under their tenure, not Elop’s.
“If you want the real culprits for Nokia’s demise then you need to cast your mind back to 2007 when Nokia completely failed to react to the iPhone”
Actually, I believe it goes back before that. Nokia failed to react to the flip phone trend popularized by the Razr. At the time, Nokia staunchly refused to accept that the flip phone was here to stay, saying it was essentially a passing fad and instead sticking to the candy bar design. While that may have been true in the long run, it hurt them badly for several years prior to the iPhone release. And of course, they dismissed that one too at the time leading to where we are today.
These problems have been a long time in the making. However, I have real faith in the new Lumia product line and in Windows Phone and do believe this is the start of a major turnaround for the company. Just my 2c.
@Mark True Dat
I wrote at length to permanent disbelief from the same fanboi types over at AAS about the appalling damage the N97 and other underspecced underpar and buggy (like the X6 and lets be honest the original N95 hero was dreadful at release and the dismal N96 remains unfixed til this day) devices. Which were suddenly thrown into sharp and unflattering relief by the arrival of the iPhone which although feature lite “just worked” out of the box and knocked all other phones for six for full internet browsing experience. They never recovered.
However where I’m much less convinced is the complete abandonment of all other strategies and OS and such a complete sublimation of Nokia’s shareholders interests below those of Microsoft investors. After all now Nokia has considerably less bargaining power with Microsoft than someone like Samsung (who it’s rumoured are rebooting their WP programme to tide over pause in SGS III announcement/rel) as Microsoft already have Nokia by the b*lls as they have no other platform they can no feasibly use having destroyed their own platforms and then would look ridiculous trying to reverse now and adopt Android (which they’re almost certainly forbidden from doing under their contract with MS anyway as indeed they probably are any other platform). Microsoft don’t need Nokia anymore they already have them in their pocket. No who Microsoft need to get onside are Samsung who as a result on Nokia board actions last year are outselling Nokia and Microsoft need onside more, whilst Samsung are cleverly using dangled carrot to prevent themselves becoming too beholden to either Google or Microsoft (unlike Nokia) and therefore maximising their profitability and independence. Good work Samsung running rings around Nokia like they did when they got them to waste months/years on the Symbian foundation which Samsung had no real interest in supporting unless all the work was done for them.
The N9 it could be remarked should be having considerably more positive impact on the ASAP of smart devices than even it’s sales superiority over the WP Lumias would suggest as it sells for more (Nokia aren’t having to or choosing to subsidise it), Nokia don’t have to pay external royalties on it as it’s their own platform and anything purchased in the App store results in extra revenue to Nokia as it’s their own marketplace. So taking a complete stb in the dark but guess each N9 could be at least 3 times more valuable to Noia than each Lumia sold.
I note that the free cash reserves have declined by around Euros 1 billion which would tie in quite nicely with some of the sums said to have been spent on promoting Lumia devices and Microsoft’s Windows Phone, so at this rate Microsoft can get Nokia to keep spending on promoting it’s OS for another 5 quarters or so and cannibalise their old installed base into Microsoft users not forgetting these are lost revenue streams (store advertising etc. ) to Nokia and wins for Microsoft that Nokia are paying money to Microsoft to lose and resulting in no overall increase in sales.
Well it’s early days yet but the Lumia 800 would appear to have sold considerably less than 200,000 in the UK judging from the Analyst call and in fact it could well be below 100,00 as the average for the six launch countries has to be below 200,000 for Q4 allowing for figures including January and the additional countries that have been released in Jan. And I have to say that 100,000 or less flagship devices sold in two months with a huge blitz of advertising spend is a bit (huge) of a disaster. Not surprising Elop was touring UK stores at the moment they must have spent more promoting each phone than the sales price. In fact Nokia would appear to have spent in excess of 500 Euros promoting each phone they’ve managed to sell so far.
Let’s hope the business plan gets back on course assuming this isn’t the course – of course.
Indeed. The N97 should been launched running Maemo 5 not Symbian.
No, it just shouldn’t have bee released at all. Awful hardware coupled to awful software.
The N900… is what the N97 should been…
But still had a shit battery. When a device the size of the N900 uses the same battery as the 5800, there’s a huge problem.
More than you think… I don’t know how much, but batteries cost an arm & leg to manufacturers(it appear)…
Come on mark. I agree most of the stuff you say about WP.
On the other hand the facts/opinions that you throw in the air on N9 are not really waterproof. You give one youtube link as an example on the great promotion N9 got without any background information whether it was even published on tv, which channels, what time, for how long, was it on prime time. I guess you link also the N9seconds videos next… How many news did you hear that Nokia put 200 mUSD on the N9 promotion?
Of course N9 did not get to the public’s imagination. Whichever review you read it says in the beginning and in the end that there is no future to the phone/platform: killed before launched as an experiment.
Ofcourse there is a clearer strategy for Lumia, since it is WP all in.
The rest is you opinions UI.
It seems unlikely that ‘Unfollow’ was shown on TV as it’s over 2 minutes long.
So? There are plenty of other examples of TV adverts, web adverts and billboards in China and the other markets.
The N9 had a substantial advertising budget and was heavily marketed. To suggest it wasn’t is wrong.
Links to the said TV adverts, please (besides China, that one we saw already).
Nokia N9 tv spots that didn’t exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK6tl0BH8b4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDmmeEqzbU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFCppcLEiXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3L_PwyKE_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRQta1yQHUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUBEjOkfp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQZk_YNils0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysvzFLJLeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjmQuqBsbM
Here’s the ad in the cinema
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmBQh664jhY
I guess this is a figment of my imagination too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXoDicOKTII
Shop posters. Probably photoshopped.
Thanks for the links.
A few things:
The only ad that’s actually aimed at the population of the country it aired in is the Hungarian one.
The rest are TVC (Mexico).
Evidently these ads were not aimed at Mexico/Latin America, as the vast majority there still speak only Spanish and Portuguese. These could be some international pay-channel ads, for all I know.
Would also be nice to know the channel(s) those ads aired on. Just having a youtube link doesn’t really say much.
Oh and that Nokia Store ad was the tops.. what did you expect them to put there, when Lumia wasn’t even out?
Two of the links you’ve put in are not commercials of the n9
One of the two is a commercial voor postal delivery fromDigitec in which the N9 appears.
The other one is about the DNA awards in which again the N9 appears.
None in which the N9 is promoted, it just appears in the spots. It’s not about the N9
Two other links are the n9 in 9 seconds videos. They just last 9 seconds so what exactly do you call promotion?
There are 4 links are all related to one country. That being Australia, in which the N9 did receive promoting.
There’s on nokia N9 Cinema ad which probably the smallest cinema room i’ve ever seen. Certainly not Pathé. It has 4 people sitting in it. But whatever if you call that promotion.
So, YES jay you DO have a very imaginative imagination if you think the N9 promotion any promotion that is comparable to the lumia.
Are you kidding me putting 4 links it that were all related to one country.
What’d you think huh?
If i put this many links they won’t bother to check? They’d believe me anyways those fools.
Get outta here man
Excuse me, did I say that they were comparable to the same level?
Please, enlighten me. I have been tired due to exams so I may have typed that and didn’t realise.
All I was responding to is that there was NO tv adverts with the N9. You think I put those links there just because you wouldn’t check? I actually hoped they would all embed so you can check them all out, not just the last one, so you could see the titles.
The N9 promotion was much better than you all think.. I can talk about Portugal, as I live here, and besides posters on all metro stations in Lisbon (yeah the capital city) there was big adverts in every Nokia store, in fnac and around the internet.. And yes! Operators are supporting the N9.. here in Portugal N9 can be bought subsidized.. and fnac is selling the 64gb one for just 449€.. So Nokia is doing a great job promoting the N9..
The infinite faith put into the WP7 shipwreck by some fans really amazes me. Granted, there was small possibility that slapping Nokia logo on WP7 shell will somehow translate into sales, although it was never explained how exactly that should work. Well, now we know that didn’t happen and WP7 continue entirely in line with previous disastrous performance. The Nokia logo didn’t change anything at all.
So how can people still think WP is going catch up in the future? Why should that happen? Because of more dumping prices? More marketing? Both was tried before by MS and didn’t work. It’s more than year after first WP phones were on market, and it’s clear that WP itself is The Problem, especially if we consider the N9, which has almost exactly same shell as Lumia, so the only difference is OS. And still, N9 (probably) outsold Lumia 800.
I really don’t know how you can say that N9/MeeGo were never going to make it and at the same time assert that WP can. The numbers tells the exact opposite story. Why you think grid UI can’t form another platform? Android did it, and how we see MeeGo actually had chance too. On the other hand tiles obviously don’t work.
The choice “pick one of Symbian, MeeGo and WP” is artificial one, and actually Elop’s main trick. Nokia could sell MeeGo side by side with WP. But then the WP7 fail would be undeniable.
I don’t have infinite faith. I do, however, have enough to tide me over until Q3 2012.
Quite a difference.
MeeGo was never going to make it because it doesn’t differentiate enough from iOS, isn’t as smooth and doesn’t have the ecosystem. Android is more a widget based UI like Symbian but better in parts.
WP is different. People get bored easily and like to try something new. Trivial as it sounds, that’s what might save Nokia.
WP – different from everyone else (and not new, btw), isn’t selling
iOS, Androind, Bada, MeeGo, … – each different with same basic UI paradigm, each sells more than WP
I see pattern here. Almost looks like you are pulling these remarks about bored people and ecosystems completely out of thin air.
I take it you’ve never actually used an N9 then Mark.
same thoughts.
buttonless swipe ui is not enough differentiation. *lol*
It isn’t. Talk to average users that make up the bulk of the smartphone buying public. They don’t care for the N9.
migo if “They don’t care for the N9″ what can you say about the WP?… you see you have a problem here were reality and NUMBERS say exactly the opposite.
Reality and numbers mean absolutely nothing to the hysterical WP cohorts. Also, money talks. Nobody can be THAT dense unless they are paid to be.
In fairness we don’t. The iPhone 4S sold 37 million last quarter and I’m going to bet you it destroyed the N9 in terms of sales volume in every market where they both competed.
iOS is the premier grid based UI. Android is the premier widget based UI. WP is different. Not saying that’s enough but it explains why the N9 isn’t a short term proposition.
Now if Nokia get a beachhead with WP and buy enough time to develop Maemo properly…
Now that would be interesting!
Trust me, button-less Swipe UI is NOT enough for differentiation. The MeeGo UI still looks and behaves like iOS and Android. Once you enter an app, it’s the same exact experience. Almost every MeeGo app in the store is a cheap port of its iOS and Android counterpart. It’s clunky, ancient, and inconsistent.
WP7 has a swipe UI. It’s called Pivots. It’s intuitive, and feels even more natural with the Lumia 800 curved glass hardware. I’ve swiped on WP7 much more than I’ve swiped on the N9. Also, Swipe UI has one big flaw: no back button. I find myself thinking for a few seconds how to get back to the previous screen. I would hunt down the screen for a button that will let me go back to a previous screen. Usually, that button is at the top left, bottom left, in the middle of the screen, it can be anywhere. Sometimes, that back button doesn’t exist at all. I have to remind myself to swipe into the multitask pane to go back to the previous screen.
It’s not consistent. It’s not perfect as you fanboys claim it is.
No Mike, and i say this with all respect, but what you fail to address is one very simple question, how come people buy the N9, the Iphone the androids even the symbians, but neglect the WP..
You know all things considered you might be wrong and people do prefer grids of icons and all off that…
People buy Androids and iOS because they don’t know any better. They have not used WP7, or don’t want to give WP7 a chance. The WP7 UI is a major shift in thinking of how Software should behave. The tiles are sometimes enough for you get the information you want, without going into an app. The Hubs aggregates all the information you need, instead of going into other apps. Until you’ve understood or used this new paradigm, you are still living in the early days of computing. When I look at the MeeGo, iOS or Android home screen, I see Windows 3.1, or even the early GUI by Xerox. It’s a grid of icons that doesn’t do anything. Many people prefer the grid of icons, because that’s what they’re used to. If you’ve used a WP7, you will realize that a grid of icons or widgets is clunky compared to Hubs and Pivots. Read this article: http://spillwaybrain.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/why-windows/
@Mike
This is such a tired old excuse.
Everyone that buys X and Y “doesn’t know better”. They should instead buy Z because that’s the real deal, since A and B said so on a random blog.
The reality:
People buy what they LIKE. What they feel comfortable using. What’s in fashion.
The Lumia sales tell a story:
WP is neither fashionable, nor very likeable and neither is comfortable to use for the majority of existing smartphone owners, being very different from everything else out there.
Again, you failed to first prove that being totally different is good and building on same UI paradigm as everyone else is bad. So far market is saying opposite is true.
Extending the grid icon UI with swipe actually looks like very good thing and certainly enough to differentiate from others.
The people that use WP7 and open to change sees the advantages of the new paradigm. Read what the tech blogs are saying about WP7. They are starting to get it. The problem with WP7 is not the UI, it’s the people who don’t want to try something new, or the rabid fanboy bias against Microsoft.
When I go to Carrier stores, the sales people are always pushing Android and iPhone down my throat. Additionally, before Nokia joined WP7, all the hardware is CRAP. HTC and Samsung are the biggest players in WP7, and they design hardware as an afterthought. They’re merely clones of Android phones. They’re cheap, ugly, and they create software that doesn’t follow the Metro language. Nokia is changing that. They are offering incentives and educating sales people about WP7. This is why Nokia will dominate in WP7. Once the Nokia hardware is used with beautiful Metro apps made with the collaboration of Nokia Designers and MS software engineers, WP7 is compelling.
Apple knows this, and they know WP7 is a threat.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/24/2730972/tim-cook-phone-market-isnt-a-two-horse-race-theres-a-horse-in-redmond
Apple users are spoiled, and use software that just works. WP7 will be going after these users first. Many Apple sites have expressed that the Lumia 900 is the first phone that they would trade their iPhones for:
http://www.cultofmac.com/139196/looking-for-a-worthy-competitor-to-apple-nokias-got-the-goods-ces-2012/
Once the users understand, and are educated about WP7, it will sell. This is why they will sell the Lumia 900 for cheap, and spending millions of dollars in advertising. They want people to try it. That is the biggest hurdle. Once the users have used it on everyday scenarios, they can’t imagine using anything else.
intuitive wp?
multitasking on lumia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rqVOF-SoKE&feature=player_embedded
well i will not show you a video about multitasking on n9 because its too simple
Uhh… one long press on the back button, select app, done.
Pretty easy and intuitive if you ask me.
Here’s one showing why the Lumia is better in stuff that people actually care about in a UI, namely smoothness of operation. The N9 is disappointing here.
http://nokiamobileblog.com/nokia-n9-vs-nokia-lumia-800-speed-and-lag-test/
well i will do it:
bring a video with pr 1.1
WOW! you lose credibility every post you make.
First of all, IN APP SWIPE UI always has a back button!!
You swiped more in WP than in Swipe UI N9? YOU CANT EVEN DO ANYTHING IN THE N9 WITHOUT SWIPING!!
LMFAO!!
No. It isn’t.
Yes it you dumbass. I have a N9.
It always has a backbutton. It’s not always in the form a an arrow though. E.g. in email. when you reading an mail there is an @ icon at the left bottom of the display. touch this and you go back to your inbox.
Tap it again to see all your inboxes.
Don’t talk about stuff you don’t know. There’s always a backbutton, it’s just not always an arrow you dimwit.
Really, if you’ve never used it you can’t talk. So don’t talk shit about MeeGo.
You don’t know the first thing about MeeGo.
Nope, but I’ve seen the UI. It’s not different enough and inferior to the iPhone’s.
How ia ia inferior to iOS interface? I have used iOS on a iPod touch and have a N9. In my opinion, the N9 is more intuitive. It has a few weaknesses but they are not linked to the UI or user experience. In addition some of them are supposedly going to be fixed in the 1.2 upgrade. (e.g. universal copy& past)
The main advantage for iOS is the massive amount of apps and in my opinion nothing else of significance.
I can’t agree with you on the people try new things because we get bored, but I disagree with you on the zero ecocrap thing (sorry but I really dislike that bussines model, it’s just the easiest way to milk us users, and we’re going there jumping with a big smille) WP at the star has practically zero eco around it, just planned things, the N9 OS (because it has the Meego sticker, but it isn’t at all) can do the same, and in second place, it can make it, taking note of the vanilla Meego demos its like Android with another iconset, but the SWIPE UI concept can get people easily on board (simplies as it’s posible), one thing a N9 user will tell you constantly is how many times He/She try to swipe on a touchscreen device, once you get the concept it becomes really natural, you try it unintentionally.
PD.: If nokia goes backruncy, someone can writte a really good novel-book.
We need an EDIT button
I can agree with you on the people try new things because we get bored
WP doesn’t have zero around it.
Right off the bat it comes integrated with Office, which links with SkyDrive for further collaboration, Office 365 and Office 2010.
Then it’s got Xbox, which links up nicely with your 360 to expand the social aspects of the platform that make it such a strong performer.
And it has Microsoft’s strong developer relations, with the fastest growing app store of any platform.
That’s not zero ecosystem, that’s a strong ecosystem. It’s also exactly what Nokia was trying to build with Ovi, but couldn’t do.
Its just missing one the one thing NOKIA as any interest in, buyers….
For general consumers Office is completely irrelevant.
Xbox is better, but still given the size of Xbox Live userbase in comparison with smartphones, it is almost irrelevant. Also currently the integration is mostly about having one account for smartphone and console. Given the nature of both devices, I can hardly see the case for any “synergies”.
Developers are also potentially better, but the problem is developers follow users. And crucially, WP doesn’t have users and is continually unable to attract them, which suggest there is systemic problem with this ecosystem.
So de facto, there IS zero ecosystem around WP.
“For general consumers Office is completely irrelevant.”
One Note absolute is relevant. A brilliant way of capturing information.
I guess that’s why corporate users are rushing in droves to get the Lumia.. not.
Corporate users use Blackberrys over here. However…
http://www.vodafone.co.uk/business/mobile-phones/index.htm
The best selling Vodafone UK business phone is the Lumia.
So… yeah?
Is that the same Vodafone that had such low Lumia sales in the UK?
Yup. Nice try.
Just because something says “best selling” on a site, as they did also in France and the Netherlands, doesn’t mean it’s true.
As the actual Lumia sales in Q4 show.
You know, facts. Not delirious fantasies.
Thing is.. nobody likes to be forced into an ecosystem.. Apple did it differently.. The first iphone didn’t come with an ecosystem.. It was made to be simple to use, intuitive and with beautiful overall form factor.. Consumers took to that willingly. And i will not deny the Jailbreaking community made owning this device much, much cooler; no matter how Apple make it seems like they hates them Jailbreaking community to the bone, those Cupertino executives will gladly from the bottom of their heart thank this community for turning their device into a cult device.
WP on the other hand wants people to get onboard, BUY from US, BUY our xBox, BUY our Office Products, BUY songs, videos from US and we will lock u in forever so that u will only BUY from US for the rest of ur life. U are locked into our ECOSYSTEM from now on.. And no, u will not get to jailbreak ur device coz its uncool.. These tiles here.. yes, that one, stay in there.. if u ever get bored go to the next tile and the next and the next.. There are plenty of tiles for everyone, except that they are.. boring tiles.. no stop dreaming about pretty, cute little icons. U won’t have icons in ur life anymore.. EVER..!!
Errmmmm.. No thanx.. i’ll stick to my icon based UI, N9. Thank you very much.
I have an N9. I like it but would not recommend it to anyone.the swipe advantages dont even begin to outweigh the disadvantages of no ecosystem.
And yes, the WP ecosystem is smaller than iOS and Android by an order of magnitude, but it is still bigger than N9′s by an order of magnitude. What can I get on my N9 besides angry birds? Is there Evernote? An Instapaper client? A GV client? Amazon Kindle? Groupon? pandora and LinkedIn (official or not)? Netflix? Kayak?
Maemo/Meego is linux, very strong ecosystem
Why do you think that Samsung will focus on Tizen? Tizen = next version of MeeGo
”MeeGo was never going to make it because it doesn’t differentiate enough from iOS, isn’t as smooth and doesn’t have the ecosystem.”
It’s not about ecosystem (word of 2011). The average consumers don’t care about ecosystems and they don’t even want them.
They don’t get why they have the make a gmail to use an android (marketplace). They don’t get why they have to make an apple id to use the appstore, they don’t get why they have to get a windows live adres to use windows phone.
People are more botherd by the ecosystem than anything. When they switch phone they ended having several emailadresses. It’s one of the stupidest aspects of a ecosystem.
Ecosystems do more damage than they bring pleasure. It’s being shoved down their throuts.
People talk about ecosystems when they just mean appstores. The so called ”ecosystem services” like gmail and what not are standards that should be supported by any phone.
the normal consumer just wants to use gmail on any phone, ms exhange on any phone, hotmail on any phone and what not.
Ms exchange is not even available for all ecosystems. So some business consumers feel pushed to 1 ecosystem.
Meego not as smooth as iOS?
Stop talking, you’ve never used or owned a meego phone. I have so I can speak.
It doesnt differentiate from iOS. Wow you’ve never even seen MeeGo have you now? Gridbased UI you call it?
Windows phone is the same thing but with very big icons instead. and you dont scroll to the left you just keep scrolling down endlessly.
I have the N9 and I have used iPhone and no it’s not as smooth in certain places as iOS (in iPhone 4/4S). Perhaps it is you who has not used iOS.
But the N9 is still very smooth. It’s just not AS smooth. There’s a difference.
Please calm down.
based on Morgan-Stanley’s forecast, WP won’t give Nokia new customers, WP will only eat Symbian’s marketshare
ok you think nokia shouldn’t care about it’s fans? IN THAT SITUATION?
it’s the same like with the starmacs: lumias are eating a part of nokias userbase but bring no additional money for nokia.
time to stop it. bring the n9 in all markets. give it a future and the full support of nokia. evertything else will destroy nokia sooner or faster. nokia needs to care now solely of it’s fans who will defeat the brand as apple fans did years ago.
Completely wrong. It’s the non-fans who made Apple the company they are today, not the fans.
Nokia needs to reach out to the average user, and that’s exactly what they’re doing right now.
you know what a opinion leader is?
you know who helped apple to bring products that would any other company risk?
nokia isn’t in the position to talk about dominating the market or other stuff. it’s about the survival of the company.
Btw. Fans are early adoptees. Are the people who pay more for a nokia device.
the mainstreamöbuys as cheap as possible.
No. I don’t think they should care about their fans. I think they care about selling handsets and staying relevant.
There are very string android phones coming. Ice cream sandwich is also something that will kill N9 and lumia sales (if there are any lumia sales to kill).
If Nokia had released a new MeeGo phone with dual core cpu and 720p resolution it would increase the N9 sales and too. Then they will be in the game.
WP will have no chance against these new phones that are coming.
Totally agree. In my opinion they can keep the WP line also. No harm in having options for everybody.
Kudos to Mark. He is absolutely right.
excuse me but you are wrong. ilive in mexico, and the n9 is being promoted heavily:
billboard ads
newspapers
magazines
radio commercials
fliers
and its exclusive to telcel.
ive even played with one in a sears store. amazed some iphone friends
it may not get amy promotion in your country, but ill tell you, its even priced better on contract than other phones (cough couch moto razr, sgs 2 etc.
go to http://www.telcel.com and click on the bottom in lo mas nuevo (the newest) ONE CLICK: n9 there
meego troll.
Good that you have some facts. If one makes claims on support / promotion one should use actual information. One youtube link isn’t a proof.
Also in Finland there was good amount of promotion on tv (for a month) and even in cinema. All of it was dropped already a while ago and now it is all about Lumia. As it should be following the chosen strategy.
Your comment “Meego troll” on the other hand is not really to the point. Most of the comments I’ve read refer to the strategy – not Linux or Meego fanboyism. The actual questions is, what has been the best option for Nokia. So far Lumia has not proved itself and a DOA phone is keeping Nokia’s smartphone division’s head above water.
No, it’s definitely MeeGo and Linux fanboyism. They have their personal wants and make up stuff about the strategy because they think it doesn’t make them look like complete lunatics.
mexico is NOT the world. N9 was cut out of some of Nokia’s most lucrative markets. that speaks volumes. gomeego was right on the money.
Err… no. It was marketed and available on carriers in the markets it was sold in.
So, no. He wasn’t.
I have spent some time looking at the referenced page about N9 Mexico promotion telco page, and found no special deal nor special advertisement for the N9..
Te phone is there for sale but its just in a list were they ofer another 30 so devices.
+1M
yeah. this is stupid. lumia had all the budget in the world to announce itself to the world and it sold a piddly 1Million ? has got to be the worst performing handset for that kind of a budget.
but it’s another matter that there’s a whole another line, plus its loose change from Microsoft that’s pushing all those ads promoting windows.
nevertheless its rankling. it hurts to know that they dint push N9 as well. elop talks about disruptions when they could have sold millions of more Nokia devices. elop wants to ensure that non wp7 nokia phones do not survive, simply because he has bet on wp7
Excuse me, Symbian is why nokia has any sales at all.
Need you be reminded that the N9 and Lumia sales make up for 2 million sales of that 19.6 million sales in Q4.
The rest is all Symbian!
That’s so irrelevant!
The main topic of the day is “Long Live Elop, Greatest and Dearest Leader”.
I swear, a lot of the posters here wouldn’t look out of place in North Korea.
You really have no idea just how ironic you’re being here, do you?
Oh I do. Quite. You are so immersed in the Party line, you are trying to twist words even when there is nothing to twist.
something might be well..but have a look @ this:
Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/telecom/Nokia-posts-1-38-bn-loss-in-fourth-quarter/articleshow/11640310.cms
HELSINKI: Mobile phone maker Nokia Corp posted a fourth-quarter net loss of (euro) 1.07 billion ($1.38 billion) as sales slumped 21 per cent even as the company’s first Windows smartphones hit markets in Europe and Asia.
The loss compares with a profit of (euro) 745 million in the same period a year earlier.
Nokia said net revenue fell to (euro) 10 billion, from (euro) 12.6 billion in the fourth quarter of 2010, with smartphone sales plunging 23 per cent.
And yet we are expected to get an orgasm from this 1 million Lumia sales. Typical.
Nobody wants to think about your orgasms.
Yet you cared enough to comment on them. Get away from me, pervert.
hahaha
Did you think of that all by yourself?
They are back in black, the was a 1.2 Billion dollar Goodwill adjustment that makes the number as they are. They are turning a profit.
They don’t even dare to announce the N9 sales. Is it lower or higher than Lumia?
do the math and apparently its higher, like twice as much…
my estimations tells me its less than 500k
JR you are completely making that number UP… your original math tells us so… you based that on some one reducing 1.3 from 20 and saying its all symbian, wen the report indicates 1 symban sales number under expected… average sale price up (not from symbian). and the fact the your 1.3 seams to include JANUARY. so in reality its more like 1…
did u read the report? they attribute that most of their smartphone shipments in q4 are due to the N9 first and foremost…. (look at my post and quote down below)
I used Ctrl +F to find the exact phrase you posted but there is nothing like that in the press release.. you only quoting from portions of the article and adding it up ..
its in de report. N9 sales plus N9 price drove most of the sales and profit.
CTRL+F and type in N9.
I found it that way, and everyone else found it that way.
You’re just hating on N9
Page 10 you moron
my bad.. I’ve seen your quote now but it didn’t single or say the improvement in sales had been as a result of the n9 to the n9 alone. There was mention of Lumia too
That is indeed correct but the keyword here is primarely
its just math you know the total, you know that the lumias at best sold 1 million you have the rest being the N9…
to my surprise they actually say allot.
Maybe because they want to kill symbian for good…
the keyword you’re ignoring is AND
I’m glad you see you’ve been ignorant to the facts.
I’m glad you see you’ve been ignorant to the facts.
Well pointed out.
of course they mention the LUMIA.. and you do the math and results in over 2 million N9′s
My estimations are n9 made 500k sales
Surely, your math skills are way beyond our comprehension.
Its simple repeat a lie often enough it my pass as the truth, and even after he as been pointed to the bogusness of his estimations and agreeing to it he repeats it, ergo trying to recreate reality.
Apple didn’t break it into 3,4 or 4S sales. The carriers say 3 was the seller. Since 113.5 million units sold.and feature phones by Nokia are smartphones they really beat Apple. Wall Street willl not say that. Once they get rid of legacy costs,etc the books will look much better. Then we are on our.way back up.
If that’s the case that isn’t very good for Apple, because the 3GS lags on iOS 5.
Someone should tell Nokia they have spent a fortune in a new font and should stop using Nokia Sans.
+1
Well its hard to come up with actual figures for the n9 but this is how it looks like
Q 2= 16.7 million smartphones (without n9)
Q 3= 16.8 million smartphones ( with n9)
Q 4 = 19.6 million smartphones (with n9 and Lumia)
that doesn’t paint nearly as good a picture for the N9 as some people would like
It paints a good picture for the N9. It paints a bad picture for Flop, who EOL’d Symbian and ruined the company.
Stop spreading lies and misinformation.
so me you the n9 jumped from poor first quarter sale to a really good one the following quarter?
You are worse than delusional you are trying to paint a fake picture of reality.
I really tried to buy a an N9 in September but could not, they became “vagly” (interesting word) available only in Q4 and I’m still waiting for a white N9….
haahhahahaha Q3 with N9 epic
hahahahahahaha dudes that must be desperation ????
No, no, it doesn’t. I’m not spreading any misinformation. Look at the numbers, hardly a blip in the release window of the N9, but big numbers in the release window of the Lumia. Of course the Lumia also came in the Christmas season, so an overall bump in sales is expected.
wat a joke when q3 was published n9 was out for a few weeks
Belive-me I tried to buy it in that period it was impossible….
you also forgot for q4 Lumia was available for half of that time.
still in time for Xmas shopping, with free Xboxes or other expensive gadgets and massive advertisment.
But for how long is the 710 available? Much sorter than the 800 right?
Correct. It’s been released in December, so the numbers are mostly 800′s.
The reports say lumia to date. So the 710 en 800 were counted until january.
its up until YESTERDAY….soo alll the LUMIAS
Yeah i know but you can basically say. Its just the lumia 800. I think the 710 will sell even more. Its almost a give away.
wonder what the numbers for the 800 are
anyway it sounds like the N9 drove most of the Q4 smartphone sales given this
“On a sequential basis, the increase in our Smart Devices volumes in the fourth quarter 2011 was primarily
driven by the broader availability throughout the quarter of the Nokia N9 and the shipments during the
quarter of the Nokia Lumia 800 and 710 in selected markets, as well as increased seasonal demand for our
devices.”
Yeah numbers indicate that the N9 sold at least 2 million… Incredible…..
Eldar predicted that Nokia will manufacture and sell only totally 92400 pcs of N9. He has been very quiet about this for a while;)
yes another proof, plus from what I know Russia was one of the countries were the N9 sold best, (one of the reasons Elop quickly jumped in to releasing the LUMIA there).
I cannot find your quote from the original press release..
read the report, its right there search for “Average Selling Price” its right before..
ahh oke.. I saw it now,…
Nokia gets platform support payments from MS
Great full analysis and graph here: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/14122_Nokia_Q4_2011-in_the_heart_of_.php
Correction to Lumia sales, some who read the data better than I do have pointed out Lumia 1 M sales is ‘to date’ not Q4, so Q4 is even worse.
Source Tomi Ahonen
apparently its slightly below 1 million 800k 900k something like that… less free xboxes…out there than expected
They don’t include sales figures from other quarters.. Till date means quarter4.. unless you mean to say 10 min before they published it they were counting devices sold.
Probably till friday last week
Yes they can easily count how many devices they have sold no problem there. This info comes from Tomi Ahonen so you can ask him. It’s from his twitter account.
Don’t get me wrong I would like to see Nokia succeed because I own Nokia stock but for me it just seems that Nokia is completely doomed. People don’t want Windows phone. Nokia is done and they have no plan b. N9 is biggest mistake ever. It’s simply the best device on the market and could be so much better if feb11 never happened.
Tomi can’t be trusted any more than Eldar.
can you trust Nokia?
It’s writen up there on this very news…
Tomi’s opininons are his but facts are fact’s.
Fact 1 – WP Sales numbers in Q4 under 1 million
Fact 2 – Nokia N9 sold way more that those.
Fact 3 – Would have the nokia n9 been up for sale globally without a DOA sticker, and it would have sold more devices than WP in all its 5 Quarters.
Look, the problem is not that N9 numbers are pretty good specially for a first device on a new platform.
It is that the WP ones are so fantastically bad.
The N9 is the best device on the market to a delusional fanboy who would see the company die rather than admit he was wrong.
The N9 sells to diehards and nobody else. No future. No ecosystem. Now go get an android and leave the Nokia community alone.
“Now go get an android and leave the Nokia community alone.”
Why do you feel the need to tell others what to do?
You believe “the future” is tied to “the ecosystem”, right? Well, wrong. To many, there’s nothing interesting in “ecosystems” and a lot to loose by being locked-in to a vendor/app-store.
You don’t understand that? Fine. But you might consider not telling people what to do and make assumptions about what are people’s needs.
No, they can not do that. Nokia is a company that is required by law to write accurate and correct quarterly statements. They cannot include sales of another quarter in a Q4 report, that would simply be illegal.
They could say it outside of the report, but not in the report. Unless Elop has resorted to frauding up the books.
I can already see it, Elop and Ballmer in a dakr and shady room just erasing and adding some numbers in quarterly statements.
@Harangue its not in the Q4 report it in the press release…read it it is right here in this very page…
Haven’t read all of it, just skimmed it. And that’s all I’m going to do.
Frankly, I don’t really care whether WP or the N9 sold more or less than eachother. I just want the device I have in my hand to do what it is advertised to do.
So far my 800 is doing that and an N9 will probably do it as well. As long as Nokia posts their numbers in black opposed to red it’s all fine by me. Getting worked up about the chosen strategy or the results from it will only result in either a balding scalp, wrinkles or grey hair. None of which I want right now.
Good luck for the exams!
My wife and her friend watch Neighbours, etc on Channel 5 (in the UK for those not in this country. It’s the channel that had loads of adverts for Windows Phone).
They all saw the adverts, but had no idea what it was for other than a phone. They didn’t know / seem to care that it was not only advertising a new phone, but the operating / eco system as well.
I think this is a HUGE problem for Nokia and Microsoft.
It’s a huge problem that someone is still watching Neighbours…really!
Haha! Tell me about it.
*gets hit with rolling pin*
They should be changing their marketing angle. Sony and Rogers had a couple people walking around Downtown Vancouver with a live Xperia Arc for people to try out, and enter in a contest to win one.
When people actually hold a Windows Phone in their hand to use it, they’re usually won over. That’s what Nokia and Microsoft should be doing. The Amazing Everyday campaign is interesting, but I wonder how many people who come across it realise it is advertising for the phone.
Assuming they don’t screw the pooch with the camera on the rumoured 12MP 900 successor, they definitely need to go around getting people to take pictures with it.
They should also be getting sales assist people in places like Best Buy with live models to show people and let them try before they buy.
Dumb executives at Nokia. Can’t help wondering what more blunders we get to see from Elop and Board of Directors?
Pathetic limia
Nokia made a loss of £900 million last year.
The loss last year followed a £1.7 billion profit in 2010. Nokia had made a profit of £742 million in the same quarter in 2010.
Nokia shipped 77.3 million smartphones last year, down from the 103.6 million shipped in 2010. Smartphone shipments also fell 31 per cent to 19.6 million compared to the same three month period in 2010.
Thank you Mr. dickhead Stephen Elop, with your new strategy you’d ruin Nokia and sell it to MS faster than expected!
Mark my words Microsoft will not Buy Nokia, it will only acquire its IP portfolio for a bargain (I suspect it as already started to) Nokia will be left to Die alone in Corner.
It will end up being sold for scraps, not before Microsoft annihilates anything that is a possible threat to its interests.
Just business s usual for Microsoft.
People were and are waiting for the new platform MS Mango/Tango. Same thing happened to apple with the i5 wait. Elop is doing an excellent job quarter to quarter which is why you picked year over year before the switch. Since you like that now compare 010 with 009 results butthead.
Symbian was.on the downward slope and the platform needed change. Thats why the stock price used to be a whole lot higher.
P.S. The board will be discussing a .20 dividend
“P.S. The board will be discussing a .20″ dividend WTF you (The board) make huge losses and you discuss dividends????
This explains many many many things….
Ya, youve never run a business.
seams they wont have a business to run for long as well.
To someone who cant read accounting statements. You have not even seen the year end and quarterly statement. This is just quarterly numbers for press release. Your employee cuts,factory closing costs, revamping suppliers,etc. are costs that wack your profits but will not be there long term. Its called turnaround plan. Elops doing a very good job.and much better than the lost and confused last CEO.
Elops doing a very good job, except at doing what NOKIA is supposed to do, sell phones….
He is waiting for his n9, he has his n9, hes always.bashing. Thats a paid basher from one of the professional web based bashing sites.
I think that people are not waiting for Mango or Tango because people dont know what mango or tango is. People are waiting for new iphones and android phones.
No they’re not. You changed your id. How do you like mine?
If people were waiting for Mango then you’d think there would be pent up demand for it when it was released yes?
Where was it?
People hold off on the iPhone and Apple has leaner* months running up to the release but on release day there’s queues round the block to get one and availability is rubbish for weeks after release.
That didn’t happen with WP7.5.
* in the Apple sense.
Lack of availability really. No Mango handsets in Canada at all, and only AT&T got them initially in the US.
Sprint and Verizon each have only one WP model, and that was from launch. Verizon has explicitly stated that they’ll take another Windows Phone device if it supports LTE. It would have to be a CDMA/LTE device, so that’ll take a little while to roll out.
It’s only AT&T that has a decent selection at the moment, which hasn’t changed since Mango was released. WP isn’t going to get widespread adoption until there are several models available on each carrier.
Here come the trolls! Guys, this is good news for Nokia. Stop your whining.
Highly debatable if, “this is good news” but if they are, one can ask hat was the driving force for the change? is that wining??
And if one reads the Report apparently if something went right it was the N9 sales… Not the WP ones…
So is it whining? asking if there is any logic into killing it..
Specially if until yesterday, the wp saving platform did not sold more than 1 and something million devices?
I don’t have time to argue with ignorant trolls like you. Your math and conclusions are fuzzy, your comments all over the site makes you look like a hateful, bitter, fanboy. Get back to me when you’re ready for an intelligent conversation.
In other words, you have no arguments. Got it.
@dr_zorg In other words, you’re just another troll that poisons every other tech site’s comments page with noise. You’re just like the religious nuts in the streets and subways that want to shove their beliefs down my throat. Go away!
Awww, the proportion, I can’t mention it here but the proportion of…
AWWW
Mike I have never been disrespectful of you or your opinions, I would appreciate you don’t escalate the conversation to the levels of others here.
I would appreciate decent argumentation based on facts.
Sorry for not joying in the elop train and caring for nokias Future.
Fine, I understand that you want Nokia to succeed. I also see why you hate MS. I really wish that Nokia could’ve stayed with MeeGo. The problem is, at this current state, MeeGo does not offer the user anything better than Android or iOS. You can list out a million things why MeeGo is better than other OS, but your perspective is not shared by potential buyers. MeeGo in its current state is TERRIBLE. Nokia needed to move as quickly as possible, and they could not afford to bet on MeeGo with the iPhone and Android train running over everyone. Nokia will not differentiate themselves if they went with Android. Too much competition! The WP7 landscape lets them stick out of the crowd. Nokia makes the sexiest devices compared to the likes of HTC and Samsung, their only threat. They are willing to go all out to show how great WP7 can be with the right support of hardware and software. WP7 is easy to use, it works, and will win over customers. There’s a reason Elop is running billion dollar companies, and trolls “who know better” are spending their lives in forums defending their loyalty to buggy software. If you cared for Nokia’s future, you want to highlight the positive news, no matter what OS is being credited. MS is pumping money into Nokia. Be happy.
Understand what I’m saying, I never said that goin with WP was a bad thing…Specially for maybe penetrating the US were it might have a fighting chance, what I Say is that the going only With WP is extremely risky so risky it will probably lead to NOKIA destruction.
Now Nokia buisness is selling phones right? Is the N9 selling remarkably well? Yes it is.
Is the WP selling under expectations? Yes it is.
Will nokia manage to survive even if WP manage to sell 10 times more given that Nokia signed the death of its other systems? Probably not…
All things indicate that symbian will continue to plunge in sales given that the parent as pronounce it dead. and the N9 booming sales will not last long as they are being vampirised by the LUMIA 800 (every market were the N9 as sold well so far as been target as a LUMIA market).
So making a bit of guessing about Nokia next year future, it will be something like this… 50% less in synbian phones plunging to something like 30 million, N9 will maybe be able to sell another 2 million, wp even making a fantastic come back and multiplying by 10x would only reach 20 million, Can nokia survive with only 54 million phones???
Don’t think it will, and the numbers suggest exactly the same.
You know something, all those talks about the ecosystem and what users want have to be meet with real numbers or else they just come out as marketing meaningless buzz.
No, what users want is something they enjoy using. They don’t care about quarterly reports.
As long as the N9 is selling, Nokia will continue making them. That has already been stated. The thing is, it can only really take off when whatever small development for Symbian there is has shifted entirely to Qt so that the N9 has a decent selection of apps. That’s going to take years, and Nokia doesn’t have that kind of time.
They can make Windows Phone their primary strategy for the high end, with the N9 selling whatever it does in the background.
“No, what users want is something they enjoy using.”
I really wish you were right but you are not. WP market share as actually declined over the last months in the US this clearly states that the users are not enjoying it… I think Microsoft need to urgently get back at the drawing board and come up with something users do enjoy using…
Don’t take what I say as a personal attack, I truly believe you and others enjoy the Metro UI, but sales numbers say you are a minority. And thats fine, but its not a minority that may fuel Nokias survival.
Do you refer to Harmattan as MeeGo and tell me that it’s in a terrible state?
For app selection it certainly is. Given the fixes listed in PR1.2 up to PR1.1 for stability it was terrible.
gives the only thing that really counts sales number it was great for a new comer…
Tel-me how many WP were sold in its first Quarter. Tel-me how many bugs were fixed in last release of WP…???
Do you realize that there is areal chance that the N9 outsold WP in Q4 globally not just Lumias, but all of the WP countless devices sold together.
Well I agree on Nokia for beeing foolish to Update their OSs. They always need a clean fresh flash to work properly.
The OS and it’s structure is supperior to many others!
I have not seen any bugs on my N9-00 / Pr1.1 and if they will remove bugs I have not seen yet with their PR1.2 its all good news:-) Nokia N) rocks.. Simply the best Nokia phone ever! I have all the apps I will ever need.. You can make 200.000 apps, maybe you will use 15 of them…
Yes, I am talking about Harmattan on my N9. Read my comments here:
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/01/23/60k-apps-in-wp-marketplace/#comments
@Mike
‘Nokia will not differentiate themselves if they went with Android. Too much competition!’
I disagree, Nokia could have differentiate themselves with the Carl Zeiss camera, the unibody design of the N9 and with it’s own skin, UI Swipe.
Nokia could have made the ultimate Android phone, a phone with the same specs as the forthcoming Galaxy SIII but with the above stated extras.
The same time Nokia could had satisfy their hardcore fans in making more and better Symbian phones and move forward with the N9.
But now they went to the Casino and made a sole bet on an OS witch isn’t popular at all and have so many restrictions that we have to wait until Apollo to see some decent real high-end phones.
@spacemodel “I disagree, Nokia could have differentiate themselves with the Carl Zeiss camera, the unibody design of the N9 and with it’s own skin, UI Swipe.
Nokia could have made the ultimate Android phone, a phone with the same specs as the forthcoming Galaxy SIII but with the above stated extras.”
So if that DID happen, they would have to build a more expensive phone to match or surpass the Galaxy specs. They would have to build with quad-core to make the laggy Android run smoothly. Additionally, invest more money and time into software development just to put a skin on Android. And get it out to market before iPhone and other Android take away more marketshare. Then have to compete with all the Android Manufacturers also trying to get a piece of the Android pie. So you think they would have came out with this phone at the same time-frame as they did with Lumia 800? OK… OR they can just focus on hardware, and let WP7 take care of software. And get paid Millions by MS to do it. Hmmmm, that’s why you’re not running a billion dollar company.
Nokia lost a billion this quarteryou moron. It’ll continua to lose more as symbian sales and n9 sales will decline.
Windows sales wont grow that much.
AND THAT WHY YOU’RE NOT RUNNING THE COMPANY
Dude….
Enough with the incendiary remarks, please.
Let the flame-war die…
People subscribed to this thread want to read insightful/interesting remarks.
They’re tired of the fighting & personal attacks.
If you have truly interesting posts that you want to make.
Then by all means go ahead…
But you continue to post boring stuff, that’s poor netiquette.
I’m actually on your side of the debate.
But I want interesting content, as does everyone.
+1 lets try to stick with the facts and abstain from personal insults please.
Noted.
Excuse my behaviour but these people who simply seem not able to think nor read drive me insane.
Stating false facts, ignoring the true one whilst argueing without any arguments.
BTW MIKE they fixed your bug on the N9, so you don’t need to fix it yourself now just need to get the 1.2 update.
1.1 billion charge on the map unit.
hey jari,jarA,etc.etc Whats the name of that bashing company. It got listed with googles bashing blogger scandal. Another google scandal. I look it up and give you a call…“hey, is jari there please, booth number 7”.
???? What in the name of sanity are you talking about…
I was just commenting to mike that they solved a bug he had in his N9…
i just did some maths and here it is. Please don’t hesitate in sharing and correcting any infornation here.
N9′s one country per week sales is about 7.4k devices. This is done by dividing a total of 2 million by 23 countries and then dividing the obtained value by 12 weeks or 3 months.
The lumia’s one country per week sales exceeds 16k devices by a small margin. This is obtained by dividing a total of 1.5 million by 7 countries then dividing by 13 weeks.
of course, all the total figures used are the higher range for ALL devices.
you should do that per people living in a country * (Nokia) smartphone penetration in a country.
So kazakstan=UK well maybe since the Lumias only sold 100.000 phones in the UK… The numbers are so bad that if you had up all the expenses it would have been cheer to simply give the phones away…
but… the 1.5 number you pull out of…. (i don’t know were) allies to all the countries the Lumia is on sale NOW, and they are like 12??? now.
There are also more than 23 countries with current availability of the N9.
Nokia feature phone and symbian addup around 110m units which form main source of revenue to nokia,but elop statement that trend towards low end android phone with specification are different from symbian specification with concentration on lumia will cause lesser sale of symbian phone does not make any sense,low end android phone is not only eating symbian it also eating their feature phone,also samsung is keen on doing that by releasing dual sim android phone.Even though specs are different generally low end android phone specs r getting higher than that of 1st generation symbian^3,this shows that they are just finding excuses,i doubt that by the time meltemi it will be too late.Also wp7 cant make up the lose by vacancy created by termination of symbian and n9.
It will be not be suprise if nokia mess up their feature phone share,nokia n9 may or may not have out sell lumia by 2:1 but argument remains is it right decision to go wp7 only in future,since over all sale of wp7 is not good wen most of the smartphone world is saturated with either with android or ios,there is little room left for wp7 now to grow.Fact is if nokia does not bring radical changes in wp7 they will lose almost all the symbian user plus feature phone user to android.
While low end Android is eating into the featurephone market, for a lot of people in emerging markets an Android is still too unreliable, while S40 is. If you rely on your phone, you can’t have the battery dying after 1 day, or having it freezing on you.
1 million sales to date? Well, its good enough, not great though.
Sales are poor, considering the fall of Symbian and the rise of WP7 isn’t matching. This will mean the end of new Symbian devices by 2013, I believe.
It will take a lot of effort for Nokia, but Nokia’s long term strategy has to work. I rather live with the devil I know than the devil I don’t. That’s MS, rather than Apple.
Hey guys, change of perspective from N9 vs Lumia to N9 versus WP:
I tend to agree on Noki’s estimation for N9 after Lumia ~1M and Symbian declining. Then it could be possible that N9 has outsold the WP platform as a whole in Q4…
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2011/01/26/windows-phone-7-sales-top-2-million/
http://www.winrumors.com/gartner-windows-phone-sales-flat-in-q3-2011/
OMG you are right, ahhahahaha.
I had to recreate the facts you put out, since I did not believe the previous: There is one detail that could destroy the 2M estimation.
They say regarding the volumes that the Q on Q increase was due to N9, lumia AND “as well as increased seasonal demand for our devices.
Hence the N9 figure depends a lot, what the impact of seasonal demand has been for Symbian.
Nokia: What did you estimate as ASP for Symbian and WP? Symbian must be lower than the Q3 result 130eur.
Yeap complicated, the ASP went up. and that can’t be from the symbians witch price as been continuously going down specially without any new symbian model in the refereed quarter.
But aparently the 250 million we got from MS went into that math…(“fortunately” we did not sold many Lumias so we did not pay a lot to MS, 0.8 milion* 20€??) so it might be balancing things up…
So there might be some more symbian phones sold…
Still the tone of the document overall seams to implies that the Symbian sales were underperforming (surprise)
Still My best guess is that the N9 sold Over 1.5 million phones and less than 2 million, think given the markets and the way it was promoted it would be very hard to imagine more than 2 million.
However we have litle doubts in relation to the number of LUMIAS sold being less than a full million over the quarter.
And that the N9 vastly outsold it… if you notice this would be in line with the previous external estimations, they got the range remarkably correct for the lumias on the quarter.. I suspected some leaked info with mix info 800k Q4, 1.3 till today.
I’ll note the following, that the mobile division made a small profit of 208 million euros.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/26/2736104/nokia-quarterly-results-q4-2011
Location and Commerce was the one that got hit…
At least in mobile space, its still working. Selling Nokia Maps on WP Marketplace may help them too. So it’s not all doom and gloom, I say. We need to be positive and not label everyone a Trojan horse. At least, not when this was clearly a period of transition.
I’ll also add that Nokia’s investment into location-based services aren’t going to see fruit until all the Nokia apps come into play like Maps, Drive, City View, etc with Bing.
Nokia has hope. There’s light at the end of the tunnel. Only thing is, can Nokia reach it in time, when the market doesn’t want to afford it time?
Bing??? Really??? Lol.
Nokia also lost $1.4 Billion..
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-57366520-266/nokia-reports-$1.4b-loss-despite-strong-windows-phone-sales/?tag=contentMain;contentBody;1n
I have to say that Elop is a strong performer. He fooled all media that Lumia is selling strong, more than 1 milllion.
When they notice that they meant until Jan 26th, he’ll take the stage and yells “fooled again”, takes away his mask and it’s OPK again. Then he sign the contract to sell smartphone division to MS
the wp7 will live on very well
before any company wud get succeeded with wp7 and every one
know that swipe cannot be
made on another level than nokia
n9,
and well anybody remember
when android debuted on a htc
device did any knew that what
will happen to android 1 day bt
nokia was thinking that they had
become invincible by that tym
with symbian and they were
gloring by the launch of n97
which was almost a crap on the
hardware basis and i think few
day back a webos guy in an
interview told that – ‘the problem
of maemo was nt that how good
it is bt the prob is that how badly
it wud affect symbian’
here everybody had to admit that
this was there one of the biggest
mistakes that they
undermistakes,
secondly after the merger of the
moblin and maemo then they
stood us waiting almost 2 years
for a single meego device to
announce and when n9 got
launched till then it was very late
and they burned meego atleast
they shud have kept instead of
burning it alive as we all now
have seen what had happened to
meego,
everyone had to agree this also
thirdly when finally they decided
to open up their wp port folio
what we saw was the step
brother of n9 as lumia 800 with
windows ph it was below
average i suppose bt it was the
ryt thing that wp had gathered
some momentum due to long
aroused rumours and the certain
leaks bt finally i think a good
device came out as nokia lumia
900 every one that it wud hv
tango out of the box bt it was
mango eventually,
bt the conclusion is that the wp7
is initially very far better than
symbian or atleast the first
android htc launched and it was
very much fit to be resurrected in
the strategy of smartphones os
as we all knw that the market
place additions had been
increasing at a pacy speed bt i
know that it wud take only few
months for consumers to get
aware abt the wp7 phones just
lyk the rage for android started
grewing i def say wp7 if get
more better at continous rate
they will slash the existing
market share of the current
portfolio led by apple and google
and the soon fallout of market
share wud be shared single
handedly by nokia just lyk in
older days bt i req u all to make
ur minds for wp7 as u will regret
later b’coz it will be the king of
mobile os.
It will be not suprise if nokia mess up their feature phone share,nokia n9 may or may not have out sell lumia by 2:1 but argument remains is it right decision to go wp7 only,since over all sale of wp7 is not good wen most of the smartphone world is saturated with either android and ios,there is little room left for wp7 now to grow.Fact is if nokia does not bring radical changes in wp7 they will lose almost all the symbian user plus feature phone user to android.
Hahahahahha the Nokia N9 outsold all Lumia phones and it wasn’t even available in major markets, ha ha ha.
“The increase in our Smart Devices volumes in the fourth quarter 2011 was primarily driven by the broader availability throughout the quarter of the Nokia N9 and the shipments during the quarter of the Nokia Lumia 800 and 710 in selected markets, as well as increased seasonal demand for our devices.”
Well since the Lumia phones have only sold since December and from December till NOW Nokia has only SHIPPED not sold roughly 1M Lumia phones. Combine that with the fact that Nokia will not disclose N9 sales and it paints a pretty obvious picture.
HAHAHA Nokia N9 FTW!
Also interesting detail, however not so clearly formed (Interim report, page 6):
“Our broad strategic agreement with Microsoft includes platform support payments from Microsoft to us as well as software royalty payments from us to Microsoft. In the fourth quarter 2011, we received the first quarterly platform support payment of USD 250 million (EUR 180 million). We have a competitive software royalty structure, which includes minimum software royalty commitments. Over the life of the agreement, both the platform support payments and the minimum software royalty commitments are expected to measure in the billions of US Dollars.”
In other words, they confirm that they get money from MS, but also that they pay royalties. Does it mean that they will receive billions, but also pay billions?
It means they’ll receive billions to start, but will pay billions only when they’re earning far more in revenue due to sales.