Refresh of Nokia Board of Directors
As expected there’s going to be some reshuffling of the Nokia Board and here’s what Nokia has put forward yesterday. The new Chairman proposed by Nokia is the much reported Risto Saliismaa.
Out:
- Chairman, Jorma Ollila (Chairman since 1999-2012, Chairman and CEO since 1999-2006, Board member since 1995, President and CEO 1992-1999, Joined 1985)
- Board Member, Bengt Holmström (member since 1999)
- Board Member, Per Karlsson (member since 2002)
Proposed for re-election:
- Stephen Elop
- Henning Kagermann
- Jouko Karvinen
- Helge Lund
- Isabel Marey-Semper
- Dame Marjorie Scardino – Vice Chairman of the Board
- Risto Siilasmaa – proposed as Chairman of the Board
- Kari Stadigh.
In:
- Bruce Brown, Chief Technology Officer, Procter & Gamble Company
- Mårten Mickos, CEO of Eucalyptus Systems, Inc.
- Elizabeth Nelson, Independent Corporate Advisor
Read more over at: http://press.nokia.com/2012/01/26/nokia-board-of-directors-convenes-annual-general-meeting-2012/
Source: press.nokia.com via engadget
Cheers SSDH for the tip!
Category: Nokia
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- Nokia hará cambios en su mesa de accionistas | PoderPDA | February 1, 2012
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Bruce Brown P&G? Heavy hitter there. Get P&G for business and many will follow,just because. The next version of Business Windows Office has been released to a select few for trial. These Nokia boys are now playing with the big boys of business. +++
yeah, symbian & meego in deepest shit
stupid elop please leave!
Can’t Nokia shareholders vote Elop and Windows Phone out?
Don’t think that the majority share holders want that.
i’m a shareholder and i want that.
Too bad for you then.
You’re not a shareholder.
Yeah. Let’s bring back OPK – the man who took the share price down from $40 to $8!
No. Just… no.
he’s also the guy that revived Symbian and set it up for a rocket comeback but then he got ousted for Elop who just smashed all that up… and brought shares down 50%
Revived Symbian? This is the guy who was at the helm when the N97 was released. You know, the handset that killed any appetite for high end Nokia devices in most of the developed markets?
Doing too little, too late isn’t great leadership. The N8 should have been out with Belle in early 2010.
As for shares declining, take a look at what happened when Nokia’s results were released over the last two to three years. They’re following a trend established since 2007 (and I’m also sure you’ll agree that dropping the SP by a factor of 5 is a bit worse than a factor of 2 in any event).
But, hey, cling to the bogey man theory if it makes you happy.
Let’s look at their comparative performances.
2010: OPK
100 million smartphone sold
€2 billion euro profits
$10 share price (with a low of $8)
2011: Elop
77 million smartphone sold
€1 billion euro losses
$5 share price (with a low of $4.5)
OPK > Elop.
…That’s a writeoff loss. From the Navteq. You cannot quite attribute that to Elop, you know.
“That’s a writeoff loss. From the Navteq. You cannot quite attribute that to Elop, you know.”
So 2011 €0.
I let him take advantage of the money transferred from Apple and MS. Sill < to 2010.
Last I checked it was some 200ish million euros on the profit side without those writeoffs, so… Humour me.
there are hallways writeoff losses, in ANY given year..
fact…
(??????) ELOP 1 billion in losses
(incompetent) OPK €2 billion euro profits
the rest is just smoke and mirrors.
In 2011 Nokia posted -€1 073 million losses.
If you factor in the -€1090 write off, Nokia posted €17 million profit in 2011 (those padded with €400 million royalty payment from Apple and €180 million “broad strategic agreement” from MS).
€2,073 million > €17 million. Unless one lives in a bizarro world.
Your argument was they made zero profit, amidst of huge restructuring (that’ll incur costs like no other usually) Also, this was the first time Nokia did a writeoff of that size, basically biggest since buying Navteq. Was the result satisfactory in my mind? Hell no. I as a shareholder would’ve loved to see a better result. But that isn’t what I’m after here. Don’t twist things. What I want to see is for Nokia to continue produce amazing devices, and I don’t mind whether they use WP, Symbian, MeeGo, Meltemi or S40. Android, never.
“Your argument was they made zero profit, amidst of huge restructuring (that’ll incur costs like no other usually)”
My argument is that Elop did worse than OPK.
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/01/31/refresh-of-nokia-board-of-directors/comment-page-1/#comment-494770
I am looking at their comparative performances.
I even acknowledge the writeoff when you pointed it out. If you want to quibble about 17 million, I remind you that the numbers are padded by the Apple and MS payments. Anyway you look at it, Elop did worse than OPK. If you have numbers that show the opposite, you’re welcome to post them.
” Also, this was the first time Nokia did a writeoff of that size, basically biggest since buying Navteq. Was the result satisfactory in my mind? Hell no. I as a shareholder would’ve loved to see a better result. But that isn’t what I’m after here. Don’t twist things.”
What am I twisting? My point is here standing. in 2010, Nokia did better than in 2011. Even by making allowances to Mr Elop.
OPK > Elop.
While I dislike Elop IMMENSELY for his flagrant dismissal of whole Qt ecosystem, I wouldn’t judge him by his first year.
Btw, had the unfortunate moment to try out six different Lumia 800 today. Two of them exhibited fairly bad case of stutteritis which meant they were in essence unusable. I had to demo the effect to couple of salesmen before they pulled those demo devices out.
@Keizka
“While I dislike Elop IMMENSELY for his flagrant dismissal of whole Qt ecosystem, I wouldn’t judge him by his first year.”
It’s too late for me. He has exposed himself as an MS dude pushing MS solutions, Nokia be damned (heck, even a North American commenter – I believe it was Walt Mossberg – remarked that he talks like an MS employee).
LOL no! You have to go back to 2007 and compare performance from then and how it has declined over the last four years.
So, what were the profits and ASP in 2007 vs 2010? Not bothered about volume as selling low cost handsets at a near loss isn’t clever business.
Sorry. Try again.
“LOL no! You have to go back to 2007 and compare performance from then and how it has declined over the last four years”
I don’t dispute that from 2007 to 2010 there was a decline, even though 2010′s profits were better than 2009′s
Elop wasn’t even able to match OPK in his worst years. And Elop benefits from a greater market, money transactions from Apple, and in the last quarter from Microsoft. And even then, OPK pisses all over him.
Profits > losses, any day of the week, especially in financial report day.
“So, what were the profits and ASP in 2007 vs 2010?”
They were both greater than those of 2011. Even the OPK’s bottom 2009 was better than 2011.
“Not bothered about volume as selling low cost handsets at a near loss isn’t clever business.”
And Q4 2011 ASP (despite hundred million from Apple and MS) is lower than Q4 2010, and to add insult to injury, so are volumes.
Even in his worst year, OPK > Elop. If you have figures, not baseless rhetoric, supporting your position, I’ll be willing to read them.
“Sorry. Try again.”
Your turn.
“Elop wasn’t even able to match OPK in his worst years.”
You’re right. He didn’t drop the share price by a factor of 5.
Did it ever occur to you that Elop inherited a company that was already floundering fundamentally? The point you miss is that ASP, high end share and profit began eroding in 2007, not February 2011.
So you only have rethoric to counter my position, but I’m going to humor you anyway.
“You’re right. He didn’t drop the share price by a factor of 5.”
He didn’t manage to maintain them at that pathetic level (well technically he did, till he announced his strategy, then bad news financially started to pop all over the place), let alone improve on those.
“Did it ever occur to you that Elop inherited a company that was already floundering fundamentally?”
Sales up, profit being made. The trend was back up when he inherited the company, the share price was recovering, the sales were still growing, the ASP recovering. Instead of building on that, he made “The Announcement”.
You don’t have to believe me, just go to http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/investors/financials/financials/ you’ll see that financially Nokia was recovering.
It will be really interesting to see 2011 added to those graphs, especially the profits one.
“The point you miss is that ASP, high end share and profit began eroding in 2007, not February 2011.”
I don’t miss the point, he was hired to improve the situation, he made it worse. It’s even eroding further, despite receiving hundred of million of dollars payments from Apple and MS.
Err… no. It’s a fact that under OPK’s tenure that:
1) Share value dropped by a factor of 5.
2) Nokia lost its position as a provider of high end handsets.
3) ASP decreased.
Sales were up because OPK flooded the market with at or below cost variants of the 5800 in an attempt to maintain share. Even Tomi notes that one.
“Err… no. It’s a fact that under OPK’s tenure that:
1) Share value dropped by a factor of 5.”
And the market rates Elop’s performance even worse than OPK. He is not even able to match the deflated share price that OPK left ($10).
“2) Nokia lost its position as a provider of high end handsets.”
Under Elop Nokia lost the crown on smartphone sales.
For the first time in over a decade the handset division posted a loss.
For the first time since I can’t remember when, Nokia has posted 3 consecutive quarters of losses.
For the first time, Nokia smartphone shipments are decreasing.
“3) ASP decreased.”
And Elop managed to further decrease ASP.
“Sales were up because OPK flooded the market with at or below cost variants of the 5800 in an attempt to maintain share.”
And yet, OPK managed to turn profits, quarter in, quarter out. Elop, OTOH…
“Even Tomi notes that one.”
You invoke tomi in a post defending Elop? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Should I invoke him to roast Elop?
Err…
So whose fault was the drop from $15 in April 2010 to $8 in June 2010 then? Hmm? Under OPK Nokia had multiple substantial drops in SP.
Also, what event happened around April 2010 to precipitate this fall? Here’s a hint for you – it’s the same reason that features for just about every other fall in profits. Well that and the release of competitors’ figures showing just how much of the market Nokia had lost to them.
As for the smartphone crown, sorry but Apple had that long ago by selling fewer units for a much higher ASP. It was round about the point people stopped caring about Nokia at the high end.
Did you seriously think that Elop was going to change OPK’s chronic mismanagement overnight? And yet here you are condemning him whilst turning what seems to be a willful blind eye to the incompetence of the previous three years.
Astounding. Truly astounding.
I never disputed the drop under OPK. He has been fired for that. What I point out is that so far Elop is doing worse.
“As for the smartphone crown, sorry but Apple had that long ago by selling fewer units for a much higher ASP. It was round about the point people stopped caring about Nokia at the high end.”
Good for Apple. They never did anything for me
. They can be as rich as they wish to be.
Nokia connects much with me by connecting people and bring tech to less privileged people.
“Did you seriously think that Elop was going to change OPK’s chronic mismanagement overnight?”
Nope. I had hope, because OPK was bad. Problem is, he is even worse.
“And yet here you are condemning him whilst turning what seems to be a willful blind eye to the incompetence of the previous three years.”
Not at all. He is just worse. OPK set the bar low, and Elop managed to limbo under
“Astounding. Truly astounding”
Indeed.
“drop the share price by a factor of 5.”
he did that over the period of 5 years. so way less than the current trend of a factor of 2 per year…. and NOKIA is as low as it can get now anything below 5$ sparks up the “buy out” rumors… was not for that and the stock value would be now in 2$-1$ range, making Elop champion in managing in one year what OPK did in all its mandate…
Right… so how do you explain the halving of share price in April 2010 then?
Hmm?
shit yasu you dont know elop strategy he had saved nokia from burning down
… after pouring a can of gasoline all over it with the utterly idiotic `Burning Platforms` memo? Too bad he underestimated the fire he’d create… Or did he?
what the hell ???
NOKIA is up on stock? NO
Nokia selling more terminals?? NO
Nokia IN control of it’s future?? NO
NOkia turning quarterly profits?? NO
You call that saving??? Jesus!!!!
Consider me duly convinced.
Mark, get real only reason NOKIA shares bounce off the 5$ everytime is because below that roumors of “buy out” apear making the stock price go up. Was not for this effect, NOKIA price value would be in the 2$-1$ range.
Elop management is terrible and every number says the same thing, you know the things that actually count.
Elizabeth Nelson, Independent Corporate Advisor, aka I need a joob, Elop can you find me one ?
selop out, save Nokia from mediocrity and self destruction!
So you want the Nokia right before Elop, the one where it was getting roflstomped by Android and iOS and competing with an OS that wasn’t ready / had no ecosystem and was 2 years too late?
Even if that was the case what has changed?
+1
Nokia phones are no longer the laughing stock of the tech community, and they actually deliver phones in a timely fashion after announcing them.
hahahaha phew sorry again haahhaha was laughing abandoning Meego,Symbian and QT. Hhaahhahaa oops hahhaa 3rd ecosystem hhhaaha live on hhhaaa.
Go buy Nok shares if you have the guts. Show the world you got vision dude.
Ok not investing yourself. I give you a cheaper alternative yet, go find stock market traders confident in investing in NOK.
You only find investors ready to invest in MS but not NOK.
You took the words right out of my mouth…
And to add: chosing an OS with only 2% marketshare which is already almost two years excisting and is disliked all over the universe is a joke too.
And what about the fact that Nokia only can bring a real high-end phone to the market with Apollo which is ready in 2013…
There’s only one place now where Nokia is top of the bill: The Comedy Channel.
What would your suggestion be?
Stick with Meego and Symbian and be in the same place RIM is in now? On the verge of bankruptcy?
Or go with Android..and compete against 10+ other companies?
Nokia could have made the ultimate Android phone, with Galaxy SIII specs and to differentiate themselves from the others with a super Carl Zeiss camera, unibody of the N9 and their own skin, Swipe UI.
Plus they could have paid more attention to their hardcore fanbase, a massive fanbase, to make a high-end Symbian and Meego phone, including an ‘all the way’ go with Qt.
I’m not saying that this strategy would be successfull, in the mobile world you can’t give guarantees, but one thing is for sure: the chance of success with this strategy is much, much, much, much bigger than chose a dead WP horse as your sole future.
So Nokia is to be a OEM competing on hardware? And catering to meego fans which are vastly inferior in number to people who want a phone that works?
Also, since Nokia wp is a failure, means this new plans of yours can produce in 3 weeks
A. An ecosystem for meego. 60k apps?
B. An android handset with Nokia apps and ui skin?
Good! Spacemodel, the armchair CEO for CEO!
see the whole picture dude… Don’t pick minor points. Try to say words such as “arm chair CEO” doesn’t make Ms-Nok deal any less dirty.
The Ms-Nok deal is all for MS and now the newly appointed Board reflects tougher times for Nokia.
No they couldn’t have. Nokia have always been behind on specs. Back when Symbian was on top, Samsung made the phone everyone wanted while Nokia was dicking around with downgrades to the N95.
Nope. Sorry, that’s a fail too. Samsung have established themselves as the dominant force in Android. All the other OEMs are now beginning to struggle.
Android was an even less viable option than MeeGo.
So you’re suggesting that Elop didn’t choose Android because he knew Nokia couldn’t beat Samsung.
ie. Vanjokki’s “peeing in their pants” theory.
ie. That Nokia couldn’t out-pee Samsung who seems to be peeing freely.
(I think I’ve taken that metaphor as far as I want to)
All the other OEMs are now beginning to struggle…. as opposed to WP were. All the OEMs are nowhere near to struggle.
If an android OEM sold as much devices as all of the WP ones combined the OEM would be struggling…
Hey I don’t like android much more than WP, going to bed only with WP wen you are not alone in that bed get’s you… well … you know…
“RIM is in now? On the verge of bankruptcy?” Are you for real??? RIM still on profits, NOKIA turning loss Quarter out of Quarter.
if Rim is on the verge of bankruptcy? them NOKIA is defunct.
Handset division made 200 million profit this quarter.
So… no?
2% you area delusional, in its best market the US its below 1.4%…
Get your facts straight on Qt
Oh be quiet. Looking through this topic it appears to be the usual nay sayers venting.
Let’s look at facts, shall we?
1) WP is a huge risk. However, there is a good chance that over time Nokia and MS will leverage carrier bargaining positions and use marketing to increase share.
2) Android has become a race to the bottom for the OEMs. Aside from Samsung, who are the dominant player, they are all struggling or beginning to struggle. This will only get worse.
3) Symbian, whilst great at the time, is well past its sell by date and has an inferior widget based UI compared to, say, the SGS II or HTC Desire HD.
4) MeeGo is by no means a finished product and in any event is merely a grid based launcher that is, in the public’s eyes, inferior to iOS.
5) The reality is that OPK and his mob took the share price down from $40 to $8 from 2007 to mid 2010. Under Elop the decreasing trend has continued but slowed somewhat and ismostly concerned with Symbian’s failing sales in the key market and inability to take any meaningful high end share since 2007.
6) February 2011 didn’t kill Nokia. Nokia has been terminally ill for four years. However, the decision to ditch Symbian may save them. Kill or cure. Better than just dying I suppose.
Feel free to carry on the hate parade. Like I say, WP may fail spectacularly but Symbian already had, Android is a race to the bottom and MeeGo isn’t ready for prime time.
So it goes.
All I can say in OPK’s defence is Symbian was in a transition & Qt was in its infancy in that period of time. iOS no doubt came & improved too fast for Nokia/Symbian to react accordingly, whats with the compatibility path that they need to tread. Also worth mentioning is, Symbian after Nokia bought over its rights from Motorola/Samsung/SE to open source the software was a foundation in its own right with its own CEO(a dickhead of a CEO he was!!)
No doubt, Nokia on its side should have at least updated its CPU to the current standards & made use of Gpu and Open GL2.0 as its believed that Symbian was already capable of utilising that. Alas, OPK, a trained lawyer that he was, failed to realise all this and maybe he was not advised well, or sabotaging Nokia was rampant.. the truth can only be known from the horse’s mouth.. remains a mystery..
Your argument would be fine except for the fact that over two years after the first iPhone was released all that Nokia managed under OPK’s ‘leadership’ was the N97. Possibly the worst and most inappropriate response to the iPhone 3GS that could ever have been made.
Meanwhile Elop had the Lumia out in about a year.
You can make your own decisions about speed of reaction and decision making based on that.
Mark all great, but the only single truth for an OEM is, does it sell??? NO NO NO… it does not.
how do you rebate that th freaking thing does not sell???
ZTE will flush the world market with ellcheepo WP phones eating away the diminute WP market share all for itself, Nokia main market is in the low to midrange price range, how come would a nokia consumer if convinced to chage symbian still buy a nokia wen he can get exactly the same for half the price????
You have used those ZTE devices? They are HORRIBLE, due to lower quality components. Sure, the SoC may be as dictated by MS, but the screen/camera/ts hardware can vary. And therein lies the problem for likes of ZTE.
Ad 1) Correct, huge risk. It can also kill Nokia if no sales will come.
Ad 2) Nokia’s HW can compete with Samsung –> Using Android on Nokia could bring higher sales comparing to WP phones. I would rank it as lower risk.
Ad 3) OS-wise there is nothing wrong with Symbian, it’s superior to anything in the market. UI-wise – S60 was crap. Building new UI without legacy burden (s60 support) is work for one year. They did it (S90), they could have done it again, even easier with QT today. I would also rank it as lower risk than point 1.
Ad 4) ok, still in-house developed, with resources can evolve.
Looking at this list, it seems to me really poor risk management done by the CEO. All the risks in above scenarios were predicted and from CEO we would expect high level of risk management skills to avoid miscommunication of his strategies.
WP-way might be fine if he would not kill developer base and sales channels with his silly statements about Symbian and Meego. Nokia lost a lot of money by Elops poor communication skills and poor risk management. He is not an CEO level guy, sorry. His strategy might be ok, but it’s wrongly executed putting whole company, it’s staff and culture on risk.
1) Agree.
2) Possibly but that doesn’t solve the race to the bottom issue – once all things are equal all you can compete on is price.
3) Sorry, no. It isn’t. The keyboard is poor in comparison to iOS, WP and Android, the native browser is awful and installing/uninstalling apps takes ages. This is before we get to the dodgy mail client and the random crashes.
4) And hopefully it will but it’s not ready now. If WP can tide things over then maybe in the future.
The February memo could have been handled better but a decision needed to be made to stop the rot. Was it the right one? Time will tell…
2) how is that any different on WP with the difference that the user pool is much much smaller?
3) Yet consumers still prefer it to WP in numbers like 16:1
Mine, something you guys fail t answer every time is the need to putt all eggs in one basket.
Making the LUMIA series is not a bad thing. NOKIA if they had decided to become an OEM should engage in other OS’s WP may be big in the future. But others are big now and require way less evolving work, like Andrid or symbian. invest in those platforms, diverse your brand in to several lines reusing as most hardware as possible, (not unlike what nokia did for the LUMIA) maximize sales, don’t bet everything on the “ecosystem” you don’t own, control, or have a meaningful revenue system inside it…
Ad 3) you speak about apps and UI rather than underlying OS. S40, Meltemi is now in discussion to became mid-level smartphone OS while Symbian does it all. It’s again about developers, trust, strategies and risks… He is playing wild game, IMO.
The “rot” keeps selling in millions and since Nokia has nothing better as high runner it was wrong way Elop kicked off his strategy. “Feb memo could have been handled better” and number of other things that guy did wrong or conspiracy is a fact and he plays deliberately amateur CEO to reduce company value and prepare for acquisition. Or he is amateur and in such a case he should be fired.
Nobody is saying that the Swipe UI is merely a grid based launcher and inferior to iOS except you Mark.
It’s ready for primetime now. PR1.2 is mostly adding features and fixing a couple of niggles like extending cut and paste – a feature entirely absent from iOS and WP at launch and for some time afterwards.
Their’s only two things the N9 needs.
1) Nokia to stand by it and ensure it has a future so that developers know they’re not wasting their time.
2) Apps. 2 follows 1.
For people who aren’t app whores, the N9 is one of the best phones going.
Worse the only question NOKIA should be asking??? does it sell??? IT apparently does. That is the ONLY thing NOKIA should care about, this is the bottom line ecosystem, apps what ever are things done in order to have good sales numbers…
and the result is…..
WP a platform with BILLIONS wasted on marketing and development incentives, and apps… Sells a few million phones since its introduction. and as been selling less and less since its introduction almost 2 years ago.
Meego a platform declared DEAD on introduction, with very limited marketing budget based on local NOKIA marketing budgets, managed to sell millions of phones in just one device in just a couple of countries….
Ecosystem?! Windows Phone has less than 2 percent market share!
Yoda: getting ready for a takeover, are we?
Nokia: Yup!
I believe Yoda would say:
“Getting ready for a takeover, we are?”
ready for a takeover, getting are we ?
I was thinking the same thing.. I really hope this isn’t the case, but this whole strategy shift, and the manner it was carried trough.. I dunno..
Fire Elop!
“1997: Betsey Nelson becomes Chief Financial Officer, a position she held until Macromedia was acquired by Adobe”
Well that explains that one.
just knew some more juicy news… Ok so the Ipr nokia gave to that compinie to harvest intellectual property money from ofenders. Wil spilit up the revenues in this way… 1/3 1/3 1/3 for nokia for the guys and……drumrool ……. Microsoft. ….. Microsoft? What for??? We domt know but aparently they like money more than nokia does…
wats next sell navteq for peanuts to microsoft?????
Microsoft put patents into the transaction as well from memory. But I think they get to use each others patents that were part of the transaction for free.
Rats fleeing the sinking ship. The company will never be the market leader they once we’re. They will be the number one OEM for Microsoft but that will be asmall niche market. Microsoft will be lumped into the others category for the foreseeable future.
Anyone but not Elizabeth Nelson. Otherwise, goodbye Nokia, you’re doomed. She’ll definitely pursue selling the company to a larger corporation. Trust me.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=529194&privcapId=31014&previousCapId=205573&previousTitle=NOKIA%20OYJ
That’s her bio. But what’s her modus operandi?
After reading this, I’m a bit more inclined to what Eldar said about Microsoft buying Nokia.
Why? Well, the changes in the board smell of the old guard cashing their chips before letting the arsonists in.
Then, by the time Eldar’s rumor went out, they for sure had known Lumia’s and WP7 numbers. Which are really not good. Not bad either, but not good. The giant has fallen and won’t ever be big again. Nokia has commited corporate suicide… If you want even more pesimism, just read Tomi Ahonen’s blog.
And finally, remember what happened to Danger? The company Microsoft acquired for 500 million, and then destroyed?
That’s the Microsoft way of eliminating other players in the competition. Check out the list of their acquisitions, not even half of it survived. Most of them sank into a quicksand and never heard of anymore.
Wasn’t Ollila due to leave in 2010 anyway? So his reasons for leaving isn’t to do with WP7 sales or whatnot.
He was due to leave in 2012, IIRC.
He had planned to leave much earlier, but grudginly agreed to stay on longer, until 2012. I.e. until now.
IIRC he said that he would leave after getting OPK “up to speed” when he (Ollila) resigned from the position of CEO. He postponed that several times due to requests from the board/shareholders.
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/01/27/nokia-board-nominates-f-secures-riisto-siilasmaa-for-chairman/
Stop that Microsoft will not buy NOKIA, that is wishful thinking, Microsoft will take anything has of any value for peanuts and then let it to die. It as already started, Next Navteq.
Eh???
I thought it was standard practice that CEO’s aren’t also board members?
Is it up to the doctrine/constitution of the company?
Looks like Nokia’s been doing the CEO “&” board member thing for eons.
Depends on the country. It isn’t best practice. It seems to be very popular in America.
Somebody better tell Nokia and Microsoft Board that both of them are losing big time in the smartphone market.
Symbian and meego smartphone users are not rushing to buy lumnias, but instead most are going for android and iphone.
Next quarter’s press release we might get to see Google issuing a thank you note to Nokia.
Yep, I see it all around me, every Symbian user has jumped ship to Android and their single reason is that there’s no future with this OS.
We will see the same thing happen in the strongholds like China and India, this year Nokia’s marketshare in those regions will implode.
Elop always thought that people which had a Symbian phone would go with him and buy a WP the next time but that’s not gonna happen; it’s a two horse race now, Android vs iOS, the rest is not worth to mention.
why would a Symbian user, switch to Wp7 ? Android is a much more natural transition, as sad as that is. I personally would never switch to from Symbian to Android.. but i am the 1%
++++++1 WP is as alien to a symbian user as Venus is to Martians. the closest thing to symbian is meego(artwork/apps) and android (general UI).
Wp is sooo radically different is just does not look like nokia.
I won’t be getting a Nokia smartphone if its smartphone OS is only Windows Phone! We want MeeGo!
i got myself an n9 now and this will be my phone for quite a long time, minimum as long as it is working, screen is workibg and phobe working. By the time im up for a new phone, i hope aome company has acquired nokia’s impecable industrial design, and i only want a harmattan swipe ui, if and ever nokia cease to exist by then i hope one company aquires this ui as well, the os must be open one though, i dnt like iOS.
I was a Symbian user, would have bought an N900 if I had the money at the time, and I own an N9. I wouldn’t be caught dead with an WP7 or an Android. I might use an iPhone as a second phone if someone gave it to me. My 64GB N9 is my precious and I’ll use it until it breaks.
Or until a Meltemi “halo” phone to succeed the N9 appears in about two years.
N9 is really nice especially with quick tweat 3.8. I could do many things with it. I don’t need to type commands and I just pick number. Download it guys.
why cant nokia just keep meego and symbian and gu=ive us users a choice of the three? if some buy symbian and others buy meego while some buy wp7 doesnt that all mean sales and profits for nokia? isnt that what its all about? making money? but forcing people to buy lumia phones is not gonna work for me. I want choices! look at samsung! they making high end droids aswell as high end wp7 and bada phones why the fuck cant nokia?
Nokia was hoping with MeeGo being open that the user community would pick up the slack that their devs were leaving. That didn’t work out.
Symbian’s on life support. No way it’s lasting forever and it has to be put out to pasture. Already in 2006 S40 was moving ahead of S60 in some areas. In 2 years only the biggest retards will buy Symbian phones as the Asha line will be way better.
Hell, the Asha 303 is already Pentaband and has features like USB on the Go that people are pining for. S40 is already better than Symbian in all the ways that count for 90% of the users.
Rubbish. Very few developers are going to pick up development of a platform that the parent company have all but abandoned. Nokia aren’t stupid. They knew that. There is no way on earth they could bet on the community picking up development after announcing the death of Symbian and MeeGo.
If they really wanted the community to pick up development, they’d give over the sources to Swipe and all the other drivers they could so the OS is totally open source AND they’d continue to produce improved hardware.
The second possibility of getting strong community support would be if there was a future for Qt development by making Qt available on WP and S40. They keep dropping hints about S40 getting Qt but nothing concrete.
Now even s40 has better features than win7.5,symbian is higher level interms of features than s40,most people who migrate from s40 wants additional features so opt symbian/android(they know wat smartphone really means).
So you want Nokia, who already is going to a transitional period, and who had to fire thousands of developers to cut costs, to support 3 different ecosystems…oO
One ecosystem, QT. S40, Symbian and Meego.
that it is going to have to support any way
When you are in bed with Balmer there is no room for anybody else.
Correction: When you’re in bed with Ballmer, there is no room for you.
huuuuuuuuuuuuuuu men snap
Tell me the truth. Is Nokia holding you at gun point, forcing you to buy a Lumia? Are you saying that buying an N9 or any Symbian phone is not allowed by Nokia? Get a grip, you’re just butthurt that Nokia is putting WP7 in the spotlight. You want choices, but turn a blind eye to what Nokia offers.
“Are you saying that buying an N9 …. phone is not allowed by Nokia?” Yes… they are removing the N9 from the few countries it was being sold and replacing it by the Lumia series.
Just the other day people were commenting how Impossible it is to get the white N9.
So yeah we are saying that buying an N9 phone is not allowed by Nokia. Its a fact.
Is not. Don’t try to twist things. One can get N9 EVERYWHERE on the planet, it’ll just cost a bit more.
So, would you care to explain me how can I obtain a white N9 in The Netherlands or Serbia? Apart from taking a trip to Finland, Czech Republic, Oman or Vietnam to pick it in person, that is…
Ask me to ship you one from Finland
Sure, random guy over the interwebs, you just leave me an account where should I send my money and I’ll place my uttermost trust and faith in the goodness of humanity to receive something apart from a clay brick in a box with a ‘Fool you!’ greeting card in return.
On a serious note, given the noki’s original statement, how many people would actually trust anyone on the interwebs (even a legit, but not well known shop) with a serious cash to get them what they want? If that has become the only way to obtain something one wants from Nokia, grim days are what they can look forward to…
Intarwubs. I got myself a phone from Germany, of all places, since it was cheaper there. Was it easy? No, since the seller wouldn’t ship it to my country. Had to use my contacts to get it shipped here.
Remember, if there is demand, there are entrepreneurs going to take advantage of the situation… Mind you, it’ll more likely cost more.
No online shop selling the white N9 that delivers internationally, so nope – I cannot get it via the interwebs, period. Sure, I can get it if I jump to one of the aforementioned countries (which eventually I will because I’m a stubborn idiot) so technically – yes, I can get it, for a price that will step into the Vertu line when you include the time and the price of a trip to a country that sells it.
But you know that noki wasn’t talking about that. He was talking about the way the vast majority of people are obtaining their devices – from their carriers or local shops – and the N9 was notoriously hard to get by those means in most of the world, and it’s getting even harder. So, technically, Nokia is doing their best to refrain you from obtaining one.
How many Lumias would sell if that going through loops n’ bounds was the only way of obtaining them? Would they even break the two digit number in sales, given that they are anything but a stellar success despite the biggest marketing blitz in Nokia’s history and under a heavy subsidization? So, Nokia is doing their best to sell me a device I don’t want (and, as the numbers suggest, the majority of potential Nokia customers are in agreement), while doing their best to prevent me to obtain the device I want – and both of those being Nokia’s devices at that, with the latter probably having far better profit margin for Nokia. That can lead only to one conclusion – they’re either abandoning the business of selling phones, or they’re batshit crazy – no other explanation.
Soo your argument is the the N9 is not being blocked from selling because you can buy it online for extra price in some dodgy online store, WOW.. Yeah that how everybody buys its phones ….
+++++1
And? One CAN get it anywhere on the planet. Wasn’t that the crux of the whole thing?
At this stage u’re probably laughing at ur own joke..
No, not actually. Bored more like, which in effect means various kinds of trolling. Hmm. I wonder if I oughta go and buy myself a N9. Just because, oh I don’t know, I can? Mnaah, cba.
+!!! Would love to see you post pictures to rub it in.
While that would be lulzworthy, that’d decimate the cash I have been reserving for home decoration. And it would be petty on a whole new level.
Already, Nokia is becoming another OEM (another platform the same result)
People always cry that Symbian was falling, it was ugly, its UX is horrible and things like that, I remenber the dark ages of Apple (and MS too), so why Nokia can go ahead again with its own OS???
Nonsesnses, just plain nonsenses, I’m really trying to be optimist, but Nokia has already shoot himself with the WP only strategy, and a part of Nokia is preparing itself for the really hard and dark times ahead, just look at this blog its divide between those who wanna a Nokia device for their quality (but dislike Nokia sotfware) and those who wanna take a Nokia device with NOKIA sotfware. Maybe the assh….e Eldar was right, or maybe I’m paranoid and need to get a life
Yasu says:
“And the market rates Elop’s performance even worse than OPK. He is not even able to match the deflated share price that OPK left ($10).”
But OPK has still caused the greatest proportion of decline, no?
I’m interested to know if you believe that if nothing was done, Nokia would have been completely fine, and their sales would continue to soar the skies despite the competition. How competitive do you think they really could have been? How can you sway someone looking for a high end phone with a Nokia 701 when there are things like the iPhone 4 and SGSII on the market? Given how long Nokia phones take to get to market, why was the Symbian portfolio so weak? Things like the X7 was priced so close to the SGSII! What?
You talk about it being Elop’s fault Nokia’s lost the smartphone crown…Even if Nokia matched their own 28m, it would still have lost the crown to iPhone’s 37m!
Can’t you see how weak Nokia’s smartphone portfolio was for most of the year? You honestly think that has nothing to do with it? All those years in when Ollila and OPK were there, the competition was so weak. It was easy for OPK to flood the market with his crap. Nokia for the most part was able to survive not following the flippy phone trend, but the touch phones got to them. Consumers were getting more picky with what they expect.
I’m not saying that’s the only reasons, I’m just highlighting what you keep ignoring.
Nokia was already on a downward slope, and with the new Strategy in what is hopefully an attempt to turn it back around, Nokia got pushed down further as it tried to make drastic changes. You note the handset division with OPK made profit quarter in quarter out. What was the balance for the handset division in Q3? and Q4? Forgive me if I’m reading it wrong but they’re both in profit?
Looking at location and commerce, there’s a massive -1205 operating profit. I’m not quite frankly sure where that’s from. Some people have been mentioning something about a Navteq write off or something but it’s not a topic I’ve been looking into as I’m trying to finish off some case work.
Another’s fucking asshole making too much sense. Go take your paid comments off to balmer, prick.
/s
Note that comments like these won’t get any replays at all. Not any that makes sense anyway.
“But OPK has still caused the greatest proportion of decline, no?”
He was fired. Elop so far does worse.
“I’m interested to know if you believe that if nothing was done, Nokia would have been completely fine, and their sales would continue to soar the skies despite the competition. How competitive do you think they really could have been? How can you sway someone looking for a high end phone with a Nokia 701 when there are things like the iPhone 4 and SGSII on the market? Given how long Nokia phones take to get to market, why was the Symbian portfolio so weak? Things like the X7 was priced so close to the SGSII! What?”
Look at the comparative drop of sales of Nokia and RIM. Does RIM have a so much more exciting portfolio? The highest drop from RIM is 5%. Compare that with the 30% of Nokia.
“You talk about it being Elop’s fault Nokia’s lost the smartphone crown…Even if Nokia matched their own 28m, it would still have lost the crown to iPhone’s 37m!”
Probably, but they would be competing. It’s not competing anymore, it’s wasting time trying to prop up WP, while disparaging its own platforms.
“Can’t you see how weak Nokia’s smartphone portfolio was for most of the year? You honestly think that has nothing to do with it?”
I point you towards RIM. Are their portfolio so much more exciting than Nokia’s? Why was the N9 disowned by the so called Nokia CEO? That didn’t affect the sales?
“All those years in when Ollila and OPK were there, the competition was so weak. It was easy for OPK to flood the market with his crap. Nokia for the most part was able to survive not following the flippy phone trend, but the touch phones got to them. Consumers were getting more picky with what they expect.”
It’s a big world out there, not every one has the same wants, requirements and priorities.
“I’m not saying that’s the only reasons, I’m just highlighting what you keep ignoring.”
I’m ignoring nothing. A loss 30+% in 3 consecutive quarters show that something far worse than natural decline is happening.
“Nokia was already on a downward slope, and with the new Strategy in what is hopefully an attempt to turn it back around, Nokia got pushed down further as it tried to make drastic changes. You note the handset division with OPK made profit quarter in quarter out.”
No, Nokia as a whole made profits quarter in, quarter out, as the the handset division was easily able to compensate for NSN et Navteq losses.
“What was the balance for the handset division in Q3? and Q4? Forgive me if I’m reading it wrong but they’re both in profit?”
No, you’re not. They aren’t not anymore able to generate profit on the whole Nokia. Seriously, should we praise Elop for wiping his own behind?
“Looking at location and commerce, there’s a massive -1205 operating profit. I’m not quite frankly sure where that’s from. Some people have been mentioning something about a Navteq write off or something but it’s not a topic I’ve been looking into as I’m trying to finish off some case work.”
I’ve already had that conversation somewhere in the thread.
I think we all are mature enough to admit that Elop dropped the ball a big time with EOL’ing Symbian prematurely. Now to see this year whether the marketing blitz on WP devices will prop the sales or not, and also to see what’s this all about Meltemi and Smarterphone. Interesting times (unfortunately again, as with Nokia as of late. Oh well.)
It will help in the USA, but it won’t be enough to compensate for the Symbian sales they are going to loose across the globe.
Jay, in cases like these, the only thing one can do to get a clear picture of what is really happening, is wait. Time will show.. by July, we will have a pretty good picture, and by 2013.. it will be clear. Nokia, took the path of being an OEM, just like Samsung and HTC, and.. in the Android world, Samsung seems to be taking the cake home, there isn’t much left for the competition. Everybody wants to think that Nokia, will be the same for WP7.. i don’t know if that is good thing tho. We are going from a genuine OS/Hardware combo ala Apple iPhone, to a HTC-android controlled environment. Personally, I don’t see how that is good for Nokia, but you somehow manage to see it as a good thing.. Like I said, time will show which of those two opinions is the correct one.
I see WP as a crutch. Whilst Nokia’s injuries from 2007-2010 heal it will rest and focus on WP. Unlike HTC, Nokia still has clear directions on developing their own OS. S40 is still being developed, smarterphone was a recent purchase that shows they want that control but not all that development time, heavens knows what Meltemi would bring but we know Swipe is coming to a Nokia again.
What does HTC have apart from HTC sense skin? Whilst Nokia has put expiry date on Symbian it is clearly still being developed. We’ve got a post scheduled to appear soon on that.
Jay not sure you noticed but many people her have lets say “more information”, and the rosy picture you paint is not real… Specially as Simbian goes.
Looking forward to that post for Symbian. I recently tweeted the official nokia account and asked if Symbian would still get support till 2016. They replied with a ”yes it will”. So symbian will still be updated, hopefully..
I honestly must ask a question from all of you. Do you people commenting here come here for Nokia related news, be it Lumia, Symbian, MeeGo, S40 or the much rumoured Meltemi? Or do you come here for your particular OS?
This petty bickering between those who like the old Nokia and those who like this new Nokia is senseless. We all have our beloved devices (Mine was N900, still sore about it tbh), but we do have to look at the future and hope for the best. Can we affect it? Well, if you happen to have couple of billions lying around, you might be able to. Otherwise? Doesn’t seem likely.
In the end, I come here because I generally love the devices made by Nokia, how the company has affected the lives of multitude of people all over the world. The company might be in dire straits right now, but we can hope for it to realing itself to a more profitable way. At this time that way, according to Nokia management, seems to be WP. I know many of us don’t like this (Hell, I wasn’t particularly fond of this move in Feb 11), but this is how it’s going to roll. For now. What we should be hoping for is the end to these “transition years” (Jay might have something to say about this) that seem to have began already in 2007. Helluva long time that, in this business. Yet Nokia is staying afloat. And let us hope it stays afloat for quite some time, since in the end, even though being a WP manufacturer, they do their independent research. I hate to say this, but let’s see what Smarterphone acquisition and Meltemi will have on board in Nokia future, and meanwhile, by being Nokia fans (I hope), prop the company by y’know, buying the products. What happened with OPK has happened already, time gone by. Now is now. We can’t get out of that even if we wanted to. Why reminisce about things that have been, when there are a lot to get?
I know I troll about N9 every now and then (Seriously, the whining is getting on my nerves), but I’d imagine there are other devices that are just as usable. I’m carrying E7 right now, in fact. Would’ve loved N950 though.
What’s your angle?
I’ve stopped reading all the comments regularly, only if it’s really worth it
Depends on wether I see one of my favourite commenters somewhere in the mess.
I regularly check MNB for the big news considering Nokia (all of it) and their overall strategy and rare funny bits.
For my OS dependant news, I have other more up to date channels, which MNB cannot deliver at. No offense, it’s simply impossible!
I tend not to discuss my personal view online. What for…
Only if I can make a point that everybody has to agree on… because you cannot neglect the facts. No point though in convincing fanboys of either side.
Is that what you want to hear?
Mind you, I have absolutely no connection to this site. I just hate the all-around negativity in the comments section in a time when there oughta be more optimism in the air.
But ya, what I wanted to hear, in essence.
I’m here mostly to read about N9 and if there is any chance that we might Maemo continued…so following also the other crap sometimes. But have to say that the articles here more and more smell like boring marketing shit payed by the new Nokia board!
In short my opionion to this long thread as a (only) Nokia user since 1999:
1) Yes, Nokia fucked it up the last years by themselves. In my eyes their arrogance towards Apple made them blind. But also wasting time with a hundred middle class phones each year instead of concentrating on a faster and bug free Symbian/Maemo and just a few targeted devices for low, middle and high class.
2) Qt and the transition from Symbian to Maemo/Meego + integrating the free community came late but were finally the right move and got me and others thrilled again after dissapointing years with N97 Mini.
3) N9 & Symbian today allow me to do more (in terms of functions) than WP. All this 17 year old self declared techies and App Store sluts really don’t understand this…Ok maybe one should be a bit more understadingful here…they’re too young and too easy convincable by some ping pling…
4) Of course sticking only with MeeGo & Symbian might be the same risk as switching to WP after the last years of mismanagement at Nokia. No one can tell the future!
5) N9 wasn’t more unfinished than WP on arrival and with Qt ecosystem and the filled Nokia Store + not declared DOA it would have even performed even better than it appearently did. Of course it was sold 1 month longer than the Lumia 800, but it was declared DOA in every article you could find about it + sold quite expensive compared to subsidised Lumia 800. Still outperforming the Lumia clearly speaks about the acceptance. It’s simply obvious that there is a big consumer’s wish for N9 and a Maemo/MeeGo line.
6) MS fears nothing more than an Android like competitor with a quite big ecosystem (Qt) behind, that would be free and could become a second alternative to Android. It would kill WP together with Android.
7) Elop is nothing more than a Steve Balmer puppet! A disgusting guy, but of course you can applaud him for paving the way for Microsoft.
9) Telling this group there will be nothing after N9 despite an uncertain Meltemi for lower class is a joke from the point of a salesmen that wants to make money and has a nearly finished product in it’s pocket. This will finally scare away a huge group of long supporting customers. WP sales will not replace this loss in the next 1-2 years.
10) Nokia has sold it’s soul to Microsoft and as long as this partnership is working for MS everything is great, terrific, the best shit you’ve ever seen in your life, etc.
If it doesn’t work out for MS, they will take the best from Nokia (Mobile patents, Navteq) and throw the rest on the junkyard of history.
For Nokia? Elop made them totally dependant on the success of MS instead of investing in 2 horses! Speaking in his Memo-style: He destroyed all rescue vessels on the burning plattform and sending a SOS only to MS, making the crew’s survival dependant on the MS platform arriving in time to fish them out of the cold water! Despite all Nokia internal trouble before…can you call this a clever decision? Answer yourself!
+1 sir
I fit perfectly in your description of the “big loyal Nokia consumer group” and I can confirm that you are 100% right. No Microsoft product for me, ever. Nokia is dead. My devices collection, ranging from the 7071 to the N9 will be followed by Android devices.
7170, not 7071. Sorry.
If Nokias future is WP on top end models and other OSes on shit specified phones then Nokia can crash and burn for all I care. By the way I am ok with Nokia making WP phones but they should really consider to make one or two top top notch Maemo Harmattan phones as well as a diversified range of Symbian phones. Both Symbian and the N9 seems to be selling more than WP. And selling phones is Nokias business.
For me, a Nokia device is the sum of the hardware that they made, and the software that they wrote for it. You see.. once we only have the hardware, well.. it changes things.
subscribe.
Not only is that not a fair assessment it shows quite a bit of immaturity on your part.
Elop took over a mess of a company. This other fella was handed a well oiled machine and ran it into the ground.