Lumia sales far above forecasts?

| February 4, 2012 | 102 Replies


To meet or miss expectations, we have to know first what those expectations are. There are planned milestones to be met, and for the most part, whilst Nokia has hinted on their expectations for Lumia line of Nokia Windows Phones (just to get them out in 2011, shipment in VOLUME in 2012), there hasn’t been any concrete numbers as to exactly what they had expected.

Whilst some say it’s under performing, Nokia’s own estimates are that it is meeting them and far more than expected. Perhaps it is easier to meet expectations when they’re much lower. They seemed pretty pleased with the sales of well over 1m Lumias so far.

Nokia released the Lumia 800 to 6 countries in the last 6 WEEKS of 2011, with other countries slowly trickling in. More countries are appearing, and with that it’ll be easier to assess the performance of Lumia.


Peter Wissinger, director for Microsoft’s Mobile Business Group in the Nordic countries posted on Facebook that sales there have been far above expectations. We heard yesterday that in Finland, the Lumia 800 was selling really well and were also exceeding expectations from Finnish Operator, Elisa. We’re yet to see the impact of Lumia should it be available globally.

Update: Just wanted to mention this here as I’m not sure it’s solid enough for a separate post (nor do I want to antagonise Lumia naysayers) but there was a report by Canalys yesterday that said Nokia sold 1.2M Lumia phones compared to 600,000 Nokia N9. Could they have possibly slipped up the names? N9 has been out for much longer and at more countries, I expected that to have at least done 1m. BTW, what everyone at least confirms for N9 is that there are more than 92,000 units sold that ElMu so passionately claimed.  If 1.2M in 6 weeks of limited country releases is true then I’d say that’s quite a good result given how difficult it is now for anything new to make an impact in the market. (Cheers tej)

Source: WMPU


Category: Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@) or email me directly on jay[at]
  • Mark

    Numbers would be good although Canalys estimate Nokia shipped 1.2 million Lumias in Q4.

    This is a broadly optimistic start but time will tell.

    • And 37 million iPhones sold in the same quarter! There’s a massive task ahead of us, but the Lumia family is very strong. I’m really excited by the start we’ve had.

      • Jay Montano

        Yup. Nokia’s Lumias are sold where iPhones and Droids are already super strong. It’s going to be a difficult task to get traction in areas where iPhone and Lumia is the norm but not an impossible one.

        Good products with good awareness should hopefully get Nokia on the way. BTW, keep showing off whatsapp. A lot of my blackberry mates are ditching BBM for whatsapp devices. I’m sure they think iPhone and Android is the only one with whatsapp.

    • Marc Aurel

      1.2M shipped in Q4 is possible, but the actual sales have been lower by Nokia’s own admission (over million devices sold by January 26th like Elop himself said).

      The good launch sales numbers particularly in Finland are actually not ‘unlikely’ at all considering the big marketing effort and the fact that Nokia has a home advantage in Finland. I am sure the N9 would have sold at least as much with a same kind of marketing push. The population of the Nordic countries is also small enough that even if Lumia is a big success there, it won’t mean much for global sales.

      • Mark

        1.2 is over a million. Nokia’s statement in no way contradicts that of Canalys.

        • Jorge Arturo

          1,000,001 is also over a million, I think Nokia if wants to succeed in the WP replacement needs to push harder in all their key markets, just focusing in USA and UK is not good, Nokia brand there is trash, India, Latin America, China and Europe were strongholds for Nokia.

          • Viipottaja

            True. Luckily, it is being rolled out to many more countries very rapidly now.

          • Bloob

            Pretty sure they said “well over a million”, which would indicate at least 1.05 million, most likely more.

        • Shaun

          Nokia’s ‘over a million’ was up to January 26th not the end of Q4. If they were selling at the rate Canalys are stating by Jan 26th it would have been over 2 million.

      • keizka

        N9 had a very strong marketing push in nordic countries.

        • Jazz

          Still nothing like the Lumia one, it’s been epic.

          Plus N9 in the 1st 1-2mth of being available in launch countries, suffered constant availability issues in many of them.
          It was eventually worked-out as “ramp-up issues” at one or more of the main factories.

          This never happened with the L800/710 in the several countries they were launched, & the newer ones they’re increasingly being launched in.

      • jr

        He didn’t by January 26th .. Stop lying.. They said till date which was till the duration of that quarter which ended 31st December 2011.

        • Nojuu

          Nope, read the Nokias q4/2011 results pdf. It says very clearly that “over 1 million” is till the release of the results, jan 26.

          • jr

            stop the bloody lies.. the only thing they said was till date (there was no mention of 26th January).. why will they be adding q1 2012 figures to q4 2011 does it make any sense to you?

            • Nojuu

              Its not that hard.
              Direct quote:
              “having sold well over 1 million Lumia devices to date”

              “to date” definition: Until now
              And the report is dated to January 26.

              If you don’t understand what you read, well that’s your problem.

              If you are (paid, like there is in some forums) fanboy and don’t want to see things like they are, well that’s your problem as well.

              • migo

                The report was prepared and written before it was released, you’re stupid if you think it includes to the minute up to date information. If you really wanted to stretch it, you could say it includes numbers up to around January 15th, as that’s at least possible, but the only plausible explanation is that a quarterly report refers to numbers from that quarter.

      • jr

        They said sold.. not shipped.. in the Q$ report.. there were parts where they used shipped and other parts they used sold.. the two aren’t the same.

        • jiipee

          In most cases sales is equal to turnover. And turnover is recorded in majority of cases when the shipment takes place. And the shipments means shipments to direct customer ie. wholesalers, distributors, operators etc. Sales in Nokia financial reporting does not mean sales to users.

  • ffffj

    i will buy n9, but i nokia fail with lumia or goes belly up.

  • And Nokia doesn’t want to make it public and proudly announce that over 1M Lumia got shipped in Q4 alone, but only state “well over 1 million Lumia devices to date”? Isn’t it too weird to be true?

    • KeiZka

      Nah, people are reading too much into it.

  • Stound

    I think 2 major reasons for the delay of selling Lumias in Volume is because of 1) Marketplace availability 2) Language support. I think they want to prep the other Nokia markets before releasing the Lumias, for example in the Philippines, The market place wasn’t available here yet so buying it a month ago would be stupid as proven by the Radar(well htc here is known to be an android phone so it wasnt really known that much as a WP device), anyways marketplace is officially available now and the targeted release for the Lumias here is April and the Nokia ph team has already carriers supporting them plus I think its because they are training the staff here on how to use WP and with the new GM things are looking brighter.

  • GordonH

    These guys expected or forecasted to sell very few Wp7 phones? they risked their entire smartphone division on such forecast.
    Where do I start on the stupidity that is Nokia BOD.

    • Jay Montano

      Good points. However, another point is that they obviously aren’t planning to consistently have smaller forecasts. There are plans and realistic goals set and met.

      • GordonH

        Plans for Wp7 are usually very realistic and properly made by Nokia. I can’t grasp enough points for my business logic to make things sound sensible.

    • Viipottaja

      1) This guy is from MS, not Nokia 2) they may have forecasted lower volumes in Nordic countries (this MS guy is referring to them only) at the initial launch, but obviously much higher volumes once it gets really going.

      So no, they did not risk their entire smartphone division on such forecast alone.

    • migo

      Their original plan was to start selling Lumia phones in 2012, if you go back far enough their forecasts for Q4 2011 Lumia sales were zero phones. They’re not going to have very high forecasts when they just manage to get the phones out a few weeks before 2011 comes to an end.

  • jr

    Hahahahaha.. I said it.. N9 sold 500k .. Just missed it by 100k.. Now throw that n9 under the carpet no one wants that Meego.we don’t want a other device with a sea of icons .

    • SLAYER

      YES, a sea of text is more exciting!

    • akse

      Instead a sea of ugly tiles?

      • jr

        At least its different.. android,iphone , bada , megoo are all see of icons.. No I don’t want to touch that with a 10foot stick

        • TrollKnightRises

          You don’t have sex with someone just because they are different……and tinny little market shares of wp7 suggest that

    • migo

      That’s what I was thinking. Everyone was assuming that the Q4 vs Q3 sales increase was due to the N9, rather than due to the seasonal increase of Symbian phones (which sold because they were cheap, while the N9 didn’t sell as much due to its price).

  • HE

    Hey Jay some leaked infirmation..

    -It is already confirmed that DONNA will be the last symbian incarnation.Didn’t you know??

    -N8 successor will be the 2nd last flagship symbian phone from Nokia. The other one will be the Donna based handset in 2013. After that no more flagship devices.

    -Only 8 symbian devices this year.

    -S40 will get harmatten called Meltimi. The first handset will be launched in Oct 2012 with 1GHz Cpu and 256 MB RAM with multitasking for $200.

    -N8 successor will be the ultimate camera phone the world has ever seen.
    Leaked information says that it has 16MP camera, 1/1.11 sensor, 5x Optical zoom, A9 cortex with mali T-604 (inly for this handset rest carla devices will get upgraded BCM GPU 2835)

    -N8 successor will challenge the compact DSLR to demonstrate it.

    -Carla devices will get new GPU which is BCM 2835.

    -Donna Flagship device N11 (some shits will argue about the name but who cares about them) in 2013 will feature ARM A 15 Dual core chip along with mali GPU T658, 720*1280 resolution, 1GB RAM, Totally written in QT and consummately hybrid harmatten interface of N900 and N9.

    -This Nokia world will be the biggest ever by Nokia which will witness launching of N8 successor, WIN 8 (2nd version) , Ist Meltemi S40 device, Donna OS demonstration, and WIN8 tablet based on lumia design.

    • Jay Montano


      BTW the ‘only 8’ Symbian devices were already expected. Better to have less, but great handsets. How many was in 2011 that was great?

      • Jazz

        Smells like nothing more than a wish list…
        Some of it even seems technically/logistically infeasible.

    • 352×416

      I read the BCM2835 has an ARM 1176. Is the BCM 2835 a CPU/GPU combination? Will the other Carla devices get Cortex CPU?

    • OSagnostic

      BCM 2835 is not a GPU. Its an SoC with a 700MHz ARM11 processor. The current N8 has a 772MHz ARM11 (underclocked to 680MHZ).

    • mali-T658 won’t appear until 2014.

    • fghdfdfgh

      And this shows how stupid Nokia is. They will make perfect symbian and then discontinue it. They will make another (after N900 and N9) great smartphone (N8 successor) and then say it’s operating system is dead, so people will not buy it. It’s time to say goodbye to Nokia because they are not going to make smartphones anymore.

      • migo

        Symbian will never be perfect, because devs will never want anything to do with it.

  • HE

    My brother told me.he is working in Finland.. He still doesn’t want to disclose the information..He said N8 successor would be launched in Oct this year thats for sure. Nokia is considering which CPU and GPU configuration will be best for N8 successor and Donna handsets..

    • Prasenjit Bist

      Hi I don’t know wats true and false but the camera related stuff is true wat i too heard from my frnd an ex Nokian now, they fired every one in india to a shit company called accenture.

      Meltemi will come earlier; we will see sumthin very soon

  • symbego

    This news is absurd, coz Nokia never publishes expectation about WP. They can sold 1,000,000, and said the expectation is 800.000 after that.

    BTW, the competition between MeeGo & WP is completely unfair in Indonesia. N9 isn’t displayed anymore after Lumias come. Nokia shopkeeper also said “it is discontinued”, to the people that asks for N9. I just saw it.

    • Jay Montano

      Actually they had always said they were shipping in VOLUME in 2012. They had already been indicating they were not expecting high sales in the 6 weeks of 2011, just to get the phone out. Do you think if Nokia wanted to generate huge sales, they would limit launch to 6 countries?

      I don’t even think there’s any point to discuss competition between MeeGo and WP. Neither were put on sale at the same countries, at the same amount of countries for the same amount of time. You like MeeGo/Symbian/WP whatever, that’s good. I wish folks would stop arguing like they’re a bunch of 5 year olds.

      • Prasenjit Bist

        Dear Jay,meego easily sold more than a million too no doubts … canalys just predicted they have no solid info….

        • migo

          You don’t have solid info either. There’s definitely doubt that they sold more than 1 million. I’ve already seen other people with Lumias walking around, haven’t seen a single N9.

      • noki

        You know what is sad? That things have reached a place were one camp cant be happy for good sales from the other, the reason for this is that NOKIA decided to go ONLY one way, killing everything but WP on anything vaguely smartphonish.
        This caused that bowth camps saw the other as the enemy wen bottom LINE good sales numbers is the one thing that will make NOKIA survive.

        I will repeat what I and others have been saying from the beginning, NOKIA sell as much as you can in all platforms you can, sell loads of LUMIAS, but don’t sell them at the expense of loss of symbian users nor at the expense of kiled N9 sales.. Please help recapture the loss market…

        The only thing me and other’s really oppose is the policy of “all eggs in one basket”, we are perfectly fine with nokia using WP, if wp has consumer market interest, great…According to it lost market in Q4 -14%, and -43,3% during the entire year, not great numbers at all,(if you chose to believe them) was it not for NOKIA and it would be totally dead by now.

        As its stands this quarter Nokia MUST, MUST sell 3 million LUMIAS, unfortunately I expect a huge plunge this quarter for symbian. And that will put extra pressure on the Lumias for Q2.. Hoping for the best.

        P.S. numbers in reference to the N9 seam to be way off in comparison to what the NOKIA Q4 reports… Specially as ASP paragraph goes.

        • tomwhat


          true words! I would like to add what makes me personally crazy in this 2 camp thing:

          It’s hopefully very understandable for everyone that consumers like me (clear open source/n9 preference) obviously lost the game for a open mobile platform with a chance of commercial success(At least it seems so). While the world moves mobile, it seems we are forced to walled gardens (which I will NEVER do) or left with old bricks in our hands. It is also not a decision of the market but “brutally” forced abondonning by Microsoft who were once again too late and now try to save their ass with a lot of mony and a trojan horse. The first victim is/was Maemo/Meego which makes MS an opponent!

          Ignoring that MS has its very own plans and Nokia plays only a secondary role in them, makes me be believe I have to communicate with only “brainwashed kiddies” here often, It’s not the fact that someone else is more happier with WP. I’m very much for the freedom of choice! It’s the fact that repeating the praising of WP which is backed by the highest marketing budget Nokia ever spent for a phone/OS is naiv when ignoring at the same time that leaving a big group of former loyal consumers might not be the super trooper business strategy that we hear (also here) quite often.

          It’s another fact that less sold Lumias or the failing of the WP strategy could mean a return or strenghening of the former Maemo line.

          Here the dilemma has its origin.

          • Bloob

            Yeah, it’s a shame. I guess there’s Tizen, but I doubt Nokia will ever touch that.

          • use android for god sake. Its open source.

            your english is horrible.

            Honestly, get lessons. you defo aint communicating the second paragraph at all.

            Or somebody care to explain?

            • tomwhat

              🙂 Not nice to hear, but true.
              Long sentences which are hard to read…
              But I’m always thankful for such critismn.

              By the way, Android is a last option for me. But it’s not as open as one could wish. There are a lot of articles about this…so I’m not going to explain here in detail.

    • GordonH


  • Prasenjit Bist

    Hey guys why not all of u fill Stephen Elop’s inbox with mass petition to save symbian.. is it illegeal i dont know… but can we do that. dont let symbian die it deserves a helping hand

    • migo

      Would be smarter to do a petition online thing and get the numbers. See how many people actually give a rats ass about Symbian.

  • symbego

    Sorry Jay, I’ll keep talking until Nokia gives good support to other OS beside WP. For Nokia’s own good.

  • dr_zorg

    The Canalys numbers are ESTIMATES. They are not irrefutable fact, and Nokia’s quarter report shows up more than 1M N9’s sold.

    Just because it doesn’t explicitly say “N9: ” does not mean you cannot make the necessary calculations to see for yourself.

    That said, Jay et al. don’t seem to get it that the anger in the anti-WP camp stems from the dismissal of Symbian and Maemo, not from hate for WP.

    Seriously Jay, must you be reminded of it every single time? You’d think you’d understand it by now.

    “I don’t even think there’s any point to discuss competition between MeeGo and WP. Neither were put on sale at the same countries, at the same amount of countries for the same amount of time. You like MeeGo/Symbian/WP whatever, that’s good. I wish folks would stop arguing like they’re a bunch of 5 year olds.”

    Yes, Jay, they are in direct competition. Only this competition is on a management level, which results in far worse effects than if the competition was in market alone. Both OS’s should be sold in all markets, and let the customers decide which they prefer. Chances are, both would have actually sold MORE in total, due to more people having access to the devices.

    • jr

      no one wants that bloody sea of icons phone.. its dead Tim.. let it lie.. They were even charitable.. my estimations peg it a 500k

      • noki

        “one wants that bloody sea of icons phone” yes no one wants a see of icons…. herr no one wants the iphone or android.
        what is selling really great is wp. IF you want to believe Canalys then it lost 41% of its market share last year…

        • jr

          if anyone wants a phone with a sea of icons Megoo will be their last option.

          • arts.

            be civil dudes. no point arguing when we are all nokia fans.

        • migo

          A loss of marketshare just means that Android was growing at a faster rate than it was before, not that less people are using Windows Phone.

  • jcar302

    I honestly believe that windows as a platform is gaining in popularity, while people aren’t quite purchasing windows phones here in the US yet, i’ve actually had conversations about windows with people that i consider to be the average consumers that are actually interested, the 900 may be what drives people to actually try something new.

    I read many blogs and sites too, and for the first time in years i see the majority of posts (other than the blatent haters) are positive about nokia.

    At this point i’d be surprised if the 900 wasn’t a huge hit in the US, iOS has become the same boring platform year after year and android is a disorganized mess of an OS (yes i own an android device too).

    As someone that was once very against windows phone, i am now looking forward to trying out the 900.

    N9 and symbian fans, i think you guys need to realize nokia is not a democracy run by the people for the people. They are in business to make money, whether or not the switch to windows works or not remains to be seen, but so far it appears to be doing ok.
    So get over it already, put your whining and complaining efforts to better use (like seeing if you could get record companies to bring back 8 track tapes), you are wasting your time, it’s inevitable sybiam and meego are disappearing. I don’t dislike them, i use an n900 and before that it’s all symbian devices, but i’m not blind to the facts, they are done.
    Seriously, i wanted meego and windows to coexist, but with no US warranty on an n9, it’s not the right place for me to spend $600. I’m sure it was part of a strategy to push windows here, well it worked on me, so…

    • noki

      you wwre going great and then you had to turn into a war on exysting nokia client’s…
      You know that if the argument is that nokias OS’s are dead, the WP is not much better, having been the OS’ that lost most market share last year. Twice as much as the declared dead Symbian. This for an OS that is brand new is incredible..

      • migo

        The reason Symbian is dead is due to lack of developer support. It didn’t get any when it still was the marketshare king and there was only iOS starting up and Android wasn’t even around yet. Now that Android and iOS have both eclipsed Symbian, there’s even less chance of it getting support. Nokia screwed devs with Symbian Signed more than half a decade ago, and because of that, along with the fact that it’s just hard to develop for, devs just don’t want to ever touch Symbian again.

        Maemo would have had a shot, had it not been merged with Moblin into MeeGo, as it actually reversed the problems with Symbian Signed and being a Debian based distro had a large number of programs that would just need to be recompiled and have the GUI modified to work. Going to MeeGo required relying on Qt which required starting more from scratch than they would have before.

        Symbian never had a chance anymore, and they screwed Maemo.

        There are 2 Nokia platforms going forward S40/Meltemi and Windows Phone. I’d much rather an Asha 303 to an E6, and most people around the world would feel the same way.

    • Per

      I think that Nokia leaders needs to understand that they are in a market to make money. Not loosing money

    • tomwhat

      What you notice is not WP becoming so much more popular but the effect that a multimillion dollar campaing has…

  • @Jay those figures of the UPDATE ARE WRONG… It’s Opposite, N9 sold over 1.5 mill and Lumia reached 600000 ppl…

    • Prasenjit Bist

      the fact is that from Nokia press release both Lumia and N9 sold in millions thats wat u can make out…. but yeah N9 is a hero product it sold without any push and wat a joke lumia with all noise sold just 1 million and n9 with no whisper sold a miliion thats elegance of true 100% nokia product than sm 3rd party OS…. buto 6000000 units as per your link is also not credible and that’s not any analyst but sm unknown guy and inspired by the great clown Tomi Ahonnen.

      • Aleve Sicofante

        It’s getting tiresome all this free bashing of Tomi Ahonen by people that don’t take the minimum amount of time to read and counter-argument what he writes. He’s actually very sensible in what he says, despite the fact that he obviously hates Elop and is thus biased against current Nokia policy. But his numbers make a lot of sense and even after discounting the bias, you can’t but wonder what sense Nokia’s (Elop’s) plans make.

  • Aleve Sicofante

    From Tom’s Hardware, commenting on the Canalys report:

    “Canalys estimates that 237.8 million Android devices shipped worldwide during 2011, 81.9 million units in 4Q11 alone. Apple’s iOS fell into second place, seeing 93.1 million units shipped in 2011 followed by Symbian (80.1M), BlackBerry (51.4M), bada (13.2M) and Windows Phone (6.8M). Microsoft’s OS actually saw a nasty decrease in units shipped compared to 2010 with a -43.3-percent loss. Hopefully Nokia will be able to turn Microsoft’s decline around.”


    1) Symbian (80.1M)
    2) Windows Phone (6.8M)
    [Symbian was about 12:1 to WP7 in the year of its death announcement…]
    3) Microsoft’s OS actually saw a nasty decrease in units shipped compared to 2010 with a 43.3 percent loss.

    What was the logic again for adopting such a loser OS? What IS the logic to leave Symbian behind exactly?

    • arts.

      symbian covers a wide range while wp dont.

      its been said that wm is dropping. not wp7.

      symbian cant change fast enough to compete with android.

      The ecosystem to support symbian is not there.

      its all been said before, honestly.

      • Aleve Sicofante

        I know it’s been said ad nauseam, yet the numbers are stubborn and show month after month the decisions made were, to say the least, questionable. Nokia still made most of its sales (by far) from Symbian. Imagine what would have happened if they didn’t “kill” it last February and instead implemented all of the restructuring in Nokia to keep three OSs alive (WP7, Symbian and Meego), then let the market decide.

        The “ecosystem” (sorry, I hate buzzwords and this is one of the worst offenders lately) is absolutely there, and selling apps very nicely. Maybe Symbian can’t change fast enough, but it also can’t crumble as fast as WP7: 43,3% in a single year!!!! There’s no mention of Windows Mobile on the report at Canalys. It’s all Windows Phone.

        What will we hear from WP7 supporters when/if 2012 numbers show an ever decreasing market for it? What’s the plan for this very foreseeable future?

        • noki

          As much as I’m rooting for symbian/meego combo its all dead now, 2012 will show Symbian colapsing faster than ever before, now wp will have to grow in spectacular numbers obove 1000% if NOKIA wants to survive.
          I’m sure it can grow 100% and even 200% as 200% of very lite is still unfortunately very little, plus it cant go down any more than what it is…

          Question is will Nokia survive a 2012 selling under 40 million devices???

        • arts.

          Im not going have the same repetitive argument everywhere all the time.

          if you want to find out that windows phone = windows phone 7 + windows mobile you will. i really dont care.

          and no. symbian does not have a strong ecosystem. Before elop or after. Again, we are going to skip the exhaustive part where i post stuff and you post stuff.

          now, your last para is the most important.

          WHat is nokia going to do?

          Another one billion dollar transitional phase? to bring back symbian/android/linux/whatever.

          Tough it out?

          Pull a webos? (kill it when its only 6 weeks old?)

          Nokia for better or worst, finally settled down. firing elop or going open source bring alot of problems to nokia.

          Honestly you guys can blame elop all you want, the fuck i care right? but what next? bring back the symbian devs? bring back meego devs? honestly, all the finger pointing with no credible solution is tiring.

          • MoritzJT

            With which money :-/ Not even achievable if suitable!

        • Jay Montano

          “Maybe Symbian can’t change fast enough, but it also can’t crumble as fast as WP7: 43,3% in a single year!!!! There’s no mention of Windows Mobile on the report at Canalys. It’s all Windows Phone.”

          Hey, you’re a smart person. Looking at -43.3% from Q4 2010 to Q42011, without windows mobile, can you tell me if the sales numbers makes sense? If WP sells more in Q4 2011 than Q4 2010 but then somehow it’s -43.3% are you still telling me that it doesn’t include windows mobile?

          Here’s 2010 details for your comparison. Note here 3m for microsoft containing BOTH WP and WM.

          What’s 3.1 -43.3%? Is that Canalys’ current number? 3.1 which included WM?

          • Aleve Sicofante

            OK, I revised the numbers and you may be right. So Windows Phone includes all MS mobile OSs.

            Still, I don’t get how Nokia is going to survive 2012 with WP7 _ONLY_.

            Regarding “credible” solutions instead of finger pointing, I don’t think we are in a position to suggest solutions (we’re just customers, we’re not sitting in Nokia’s board). But one thing I see it was obvious before and is obvious now: there was no point in destroying a product line that was selling, by calling it a “burning platform” (Ratnet effect), then announce a new platform would replace it NINE MONTHS AFTER THE STATEMENTS (Osborne effect at its best), jeopardizing any possible Symbian and Meego sales almost to death.

            Now what’s the sensible thing to do at this very moment? Keep the strong marketing campaign for WP7 (it’s mostly MS money anyway, so why not?), while admitting both Symbian and Meego where more important than they thought and let the world know both will be kept as secondary but alive projects. I bet Meego sales would rocket, while Symbian sales would probably decline in a slower fashion (still producing revenues)to a natural -vs provoked- death, while WP7 takes off definitely, if ever.

            Here’s a credible solution for Arts, but, again, I’m not in Nokia’s board and it’s pretty much obvious MS would not accept such a solution at all. It’s them who want no other OS alive in Nokia or else they’ll pull all the money off. The point is MS can perfectly survive without Nokia or even a mobile phone division at all (they make most of its money from the enterprise desktops and servers that aren’t going anywhere, plus they can find support in other manufacturers should Nokia fail AND the tablet market is waiting for Windows 8 to arrive). It seems Nokia hasn’t prepared an exit to survive without MS. _THAT_ is what paints Elop as either an incompetent manager or a MS trojan horse.

        • nn

          That one is easy! They will say Nokia with Symbian & MeeGo was doomed and MS extended Nokia’s life by two years, and anyway it was all fault of these pesky Finns – bad marketing, not good enough HW, etc.

          • Viipottaja

            And IF (Yes, it’s a big IF) Nokia is successful with WP, you will say they would have been even more successful with Symbian & Meego, right? 😉

      • yasu

        “symbian cant change fast enough to compete with android. ”

        WP isn’t even able to compete with Bada.

        • arts.

          lets skip this bullshit argument part where we post stuff and long ass replies and agree to disagree? =D

          • yasu

            “…bada (13.2M) and Windows Phone (6.8M).”

            What is there to discuss?

            • arts

              ecosystem bla bla bla.

              • arts

                maybe elop should go bada instead then.

            • Harangue

              Price point is one thing. Regardless of whether WP sucks or not. A product set at a lower price point with somewhat equal features will sell more than the more expensive product.

              Eventhough WP has some benefit over Bada, it is ways normal consumer are likely not to notice.

              With Bada being available to a wider market, price wise, it naturally has more potential to sell opposed to the high end prices that are charged for nearly all WP devices apart from gen 1 units maybe.

              Be advised, this price point idea can be used on other markets as well. This isn’t necessarily only to be used for WP versus Bada.

              • yasu

                “…Regardless of whether WP sucks or not.”

                I don’t recall talking of WP quality or lack thereof.

                I have no bones with WP, it’s just an OS that is not for me. Unlike some around here, I don’t believe that my needs and requirements regarding OS are universal.

                I don’t even have an issues with WP fans, they are just supporting their platform of choice.

                My issues are with Elop and Microsoft in that order, for reason that I can bore you with if you so desire.

                • tomwhat


                • Harangue

                  Just a disclaimer I put in to thwart the onslaught of comments that would be about tiles sucking etc.

                  However, you didn’t refute what I said. Bada has been selling so well due to it being available at a very different price point opposed to Bada. That is one key element that should not be overlooked when comparing the two.

                  • yasu

                    “However, you didn’t refute what I said. Bada has been selling so well due to it being available at a very different price point opposed to Bada. That is one key element that should not be overlooked when comparing the two.”

                    I had nothing to refute. I posit that Bada has the upper hand on WP on the marketplace.

                    I posted the figures to back up my assertion.

                    I’m not interested of excuses brought forth to defend WP’s performance.

                    It’s the OS that’s supposed to save Nokia from its “Burning Platforms”, so it should put its Big Boy’s Pants™ and start to do more saving and a little less excuses requiring.

                    • Harangue

                      And still you haven’t mentioned anything about the completely different price points Bada and WP operate at. That’s why I said regardless of WP in that comparison.

                      Something cheap will always have more potential to sell in bigger numbers than a product that is more expensive. Especially when it something unknow U that people are reluctant to spend big bucks on.

                      Apart from looks or what company produces a phone there is a lot of psychology in play when selling a product.

                      And again, I’m not saying WP sold well or anything because it didn’t , but I am saying that there is far more to simply comparing number for number. But I doubt that concept will reach you.

                    • yasu

                      “And again, I’m not saying WP sold well or anything because it didn’t , but I am saying that there is far more to simply comparing number for number.”

                      I didn’t also mention the relentless *free* and *paid* promotion that WP benefits from.

                      Bada has far less exposure and gets the job done. Go Bada!

                      “But I doubt that concept will reach you.”

                      Yeah, I’m a moron.

                      As I said, a little less excuses and some more saving please.

    • migo

      The problem once again is that they’re looking at marketshare and sales by company. Windows Phone and Windows Mobile aren’t the same thing. Windows Mobile phones were still selling in 2010 (mostly very, very cheap models that people would buy without concerning themself over the OS), while that has all but stopped in 2011. 2010’s numbers were WM + WP, 2011’s numbers are just WP, so WP is actually increasing in units sold and as an OS is increasing marketshare, while Microsoft has overall lost some marketshare.

      • Jaylor

        It’s over, thank fucking god…
        Why the hell did you necro-post?
        Not only did you necro….
        But you spammed everyone with about a dozen+ responses.

        Are you one of those people that talks above everyone else.
        And believe that everything you think/say, must be heard.
        Your shit doesn’t stink etc…

        To necro with a dozen+ posts many days later is piss-poor netiquette.
        While the story is still hot, go crazy!

  • N9 has been no sales success. It has been developed with the ‘oh wow’ factor in mind to test some concepts before the lumia 800. Similarities between the phones tell that.

    Every review says N9 is the greatest phone but buying it would be a mistake. And after the n900 it can be easily understood. So 600k N9 should be about the number and I have no doubt that the lumia has outsold by far the n9. Also in every review out there it shows the ‘wowness’ of the N9 and everybody says that this should be the device to buy.

    So, those numbers should not be a surprise at all.

    • Aleve Sicofante

      “Every review says N9 is the greatest phone but buying it would be a mistake.”

      For goodness sake, they only said that BECAUSE NOKIA WOULD STOP DEVELOPING THE OS. If Nokia had said MeeGo was to stay along Symbian and WP7, probably we wouldn’t even have seen the Lumia 800 in its current form (“porting” the N9 design to it was only justifiable because Nokia was going to kill the N9 itself).

      It’s totally irrelevant what you think about sales numbers. We have figures deducted from various contradicting and equally reliable (or unreliable) sources. That’s pretty it. Be it 600.000 or 1.75 million, such numbers are huge for a nigh on unmarketed phone. On the contrary, 600.000 or 1.2 million (again depending on the sources) for the N9’s sibling, the most marketed Nokia ever, is just so poor I find it unbelievable any WP7 fan is not suspecting its favorite platform is doomed.

      The big picture says (whatever the source you choose for your numbers) the N9 would have been a very succesful phone should it have been properly marketed and sold throughout the world, not just “peripheral” markets.

      The big picture also shows Lumia sales (whether 600.000 or 1.2 mill in Q4) are far from the success Nokia needs to survive 2012. At the rate they’re selling, even with optimistic sales growth Nokia will have to close its doors at year’s end or earlier next year. Of course, we’ll see how the new Lumias do and if they’re suddenly the miracle Nokia needs to make those 37 millions sales. Don’t forget, however, that WP7 has been in the market for a long time now, it’s not a newcomer, and it hasn’t enamoured enough users in its two years long life.

      I understand your latest “N9” should read “Lumia 900”, right?

    • Aleve Sicofante

      Oh, and “similarities between the phones” tell a very different story in my view. The N9 had been developed for a long time before Elop’s burps in Feb. 2011. The Lumia 800 had to be rushed to the market to complain wiht the promise of “a WP7 in Q4”. What Nokia did was shoehorning some WP7 hardware, designed and built by Compal, in N9’s case to make that happen.

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