Opinion: Lumia Devices WILL get WP8/Apollo

| April 21, 2012 | 128 Replies

I honestly wasn’t planning on posting this here as it has no basis and is just speculations which is why I wrote it up on my side-project blog; but once I saw that Jay posted a bunch of rumors together I decided to hell with it let’s join in on the fun.

The whole basis of my assumption relies on one basic factor: “BT transfer”. Currently Bluetooth on WP 7.5 devices is almost useless beyond headset/car pairing and pairing to PC (not even sure if that’s possible); so why on earth would Nokia bother implementing NFC into the Lumia 610?

Let’s dig a little deeper, the current build of WP doesn’t even support NFC (which was the excuse used when Nokia was asked why it was excluded from the lumia 800); so why would you put something in a device if you can’t even use it? Short answer- because it will soon enough. Recently Stephen Elop went on record saying that one of the features to come along with WP8 is the ability to send V-Cards via BT (a perfect use of NFC- “tap to send V-Card”). At this point I’d like to point out that the C7 also had an NFC chip that was disabled until Symbian Anna supported it; so it wouldn’t be the first time that Nokia implemented technology that isn’t fully supported in a device with plans to activate/support it in a future update.


The last piece of “evidence” is the interesting timing of the NFC-Lumia announcement; if your going to make a modified version of a device shouldn’t you wait till the first version hit’s the stores at least?? Further more why not announce it at MWC which was less than a month before the 610 NFC announcement (which was also surprisingly pretty quiet). My thought on the matter is that they had a NFC 610 up and running but weren’t sure if it would run Apollo/WP8 but once they got the thumbs up from MSFT that it could support it (maybe there were questions about the lower RAM capabilities? or possibly MSFT had’t given them the complete requirements for WP8?) either way it does deserve the question to be asked, could it be that the 610 can run WP8.

Also just a reminder NFC support was one of the “leaked” features of WP8:

Support for microSD cards is also added, along with NFC support. The latter will work either via NFC built inside a smartphone or via NFC enabled SIM cards.- VIA

NFC and Wallet. Windows Phone 8 will allow users to securely pay and share via NFC and manage an integrated Wallet experience-VIA

And if the 610 can really run Apollo then by default that should mean that all other Lumia phones should run it too (considering that the 610 is the only one that’s under-powered).

Of course this little tweet just helps strengthen my case:


Time to drop the biggest effin’  bomb: Nokia & Microsoft are testing a build of Apollo on the Lumia 610. Not ‘performant’ enough. Yet.

Well of course I might be crazy or maybe it’s all the studying getting to me but I’m currently inclined to think that all 2nd gen WP devices will get the thumbs up to apollo. Your Thoughts?

Go ahead and check out my original post here:



Category: Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
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  • babienn

      …and that is why I feel winner and proud Nokia N9 user. It is evolving, getting better with updates and have better future then just killed Windows Phone. Just that is the clear proof it was better to avoid any Windows in mobile and have stable Linux in my mobile. My advice for you is to flash Lumias to MeeGo and you will have better phone. This also shows Microsoft doesn’t care about Nokia more then everybody care for yesteryear snow in the Winter. You have been tricked, sorry. Open source Lunux MeeGo is more reliable and with better future then promoted windows.

      • Simrat

        what about app?????/

      • Aliqudsi

        Are you retarded? i’m sorry but your going around spewing the same nonsense everywhere- just because Lumias MIGHT not get Apollo doesn’t mean that they wont get any future updates…. WP is far from killed- your precious Meego however is DEAD, Stable linux, Evolving? my N9 is empty no apps (cause it has none) and yet it’s buggy and laggy, where’s your Meegos future? your lucky if you get PR1.3.

        Meego WAS a good idea; actually in allhoesnty it wasn’t…..Swipe was a good idea; it just happened to end up on meego

        • REMOVED

          First of all MeeGo is better just because of apps. I have all I need. There are less but they are more value and useful, also there are no trashes in such number as in marketplace. And also is better because this is more comfortable for user. Last but not least – it just works. If you have N9, and you don’t have apps simply you haven’t looked for. I don’t say Windows must disappear. I say I and growing number of users will be using MeeGo. There would not be such a situation if both Lumia and N9 would be double-boot, and user would have a possibility to use preferred system in preferred time.

          There is also one point I’d like to pay your attention. This is Nokia blog. And users should not be discriminated because they don’t prefer the one and the only politically correct system. Simply because this forum is also to inform about new events like PureView etc. So if only windows lovers will be here then news like 808 41MPix will not be shown to the publicity – note Nokia need cash to survive as human need oxygen to breath. Of course I can be called troll or some other epithets, but what will happen when only here will be people from 0.5% windows market? Will it help Nokia to survive? I doubt, and also then it will not need to be named “my” or “Nokia” blog. IMHO. And Nokia is not in any position to loose any single user. Can’t effort for this.

        • Saul

          Stability? No issues here my friend, far more rock solid than the N900 was.
          There is still some big bugs floating around, I’m yet to hit them touch wood.
          But most of the remaining major ones look to be hit w/PR1.3.

          You don’t think it’d be much less of an issue by now if the team hadn’t shrunk by over 90% since last Feb,
          They’re struggling to hit all the major bugs, let alone add too many more significant features.
          Plus the OS is 6 freaking months old, to add as much as they have, & stabilize in that time, with the very limited resource they have (instead of the orig. planned increases), is nothing short of impressive.
          Look where iOS started out…..

          Laggy’s nowhere near the issue its made out to be either.
          I struggle to see any huge difference between my Samsing Focus S & N9 in that regard.
          It is clearly better, but the difference is overstated.
          iOS is slightly more laggy than WP at times too, even less so than maemo6x though.

          Have you genuinely even searched for the apps you need?
          So far I’m yet to hit a wall for apps I really need.
          Then again I can & often do take advantage of side-loading if nothing takes my fancy in the Store.
          Don’t have to be an uber-nerd to know how…

          • Janne

            Just a side note but my N9 (PR1.2) is considerably more laggy than my Lumias are.

            • Saul

              And yet how is it something that honestly affects actual usability for you.
              I notice a small differential that rarely means anything in real world terms.

              • Janne

                No, it does not affect usability. Just a small note. Lumia is much smoother. N9 is plenty smooth-enough to be usable in the modern sense.

              • Harangue

                Lag isn’t that much about usability, but more about aggrevation or joy of use.

                Waiting a second is of course not bad, it isn’t life changing if you wouldn’t have to wait. However, every single time you tap something and have to wait just a little time without any acknowledgement it gets annoying over time.

                Most ‘lag’ is conceiled in devices nowadays because of animations. WP does it, Android does it, iOS does it. It appears the N9 is lacking somewhat in that area and isn’t giving people some sort of acknowledgement of their input. That is what lag nowadays has become basically.

                • incognito

                  Hence why I suggested to have at least bouncy icons or generic animation when at least starting apps, but people said it’s not important…

                  Sure, you can put a splash screen in your application launcher, but it still is not as fancy as some animation and doesn’t add to the artificial ‘smoothness’ feel of the system.

                  Still, I’ve seen Androids lag far, far worse even on much more potent hardware than my N9, and even artificial animation effects don’t help there. In fact, I’d rather have ‘input lag’ than a needless animation that will take even more time, or god-forbid stutter itself.

                  The only other lag/stutter I noticed from time to time is when dynamically loading lists while you attempt to scroll them, and when connecting to a plethora of services in the background that tax the CPU to the max – but you’ll get the same, if not worse experience on your desktop computer when attempting the same. Given the hardware and true multitasking, the N9 performance is actually quite impressive. Yes, it has some rough edges, but nothing of a show stopper, not for a power user, not for your regular Joe.

                • Janne

                  Well, there is lag also in the smoothness of scrolling/swiping in N9 compared to Lumia. Less FPS, so to speak.

                  Not to belittle the N9, just to note that it is not all that smooth compared to Lumia.

        • Saul

          MeeGo was a perfectly sound idea too.
          It just got started 6mth (that pt was def. feasible) too late (& few too resources initially) & one delay toward the end of 2010 got investors too nervous.
          That’s business, that’s life… sadly.
          Sounds like all-up you’re letting your bias creep-in a little too much.
          Exaggerating at spots way too much etc.
          Then again I understand the reaction to the pure troll you’re responding to.

          • migo

            MeeGo was a horrible idea, I think it only made sense to upper management.

            Maemo was already working, based on Debian, which meant it was fairly compatible with Ubuntu and Mint (the two most popular Linux desktop distributions) and recompiling debian packages for ARM was relatively speaking easier than other distros.

            Moblin was based on RedHat/Fedora, and MeeGo was going to take the .rpm route, therefore Maemo was pretty much getting cancelled with Moblin taking lead in MeeGo, despite Maemo already being a working product and Moblin being something Intel was fucking around with to try to keep themselves relevant in the mobile space.

            Now if Moorestown had actually been released and working, and the N9 had been based on a power efficient x86 core, then we could look at MeeGo and say it’s worth it, because x86 makes it a hell of a lot easier to port stuff than ARM, but that never happened. And it was a huuuuge if.

            The problem with MeeGo wasn’t that it was 6 months too late, the problem was that Nokia ditched Maemo.

            • npo4

              The benefit of MeeGo from Maemo was that it is much more consumer friendly- much more “phone” like.

              However, I agree that they could have probably achieved the same sort of thing in terms of software with Maemo, but given how little priority Nokia was giving either project, even Maemo6 may have come too late.

        • incognito

          Pray tell why Maemo/MeeGo wasn’t a good idea? I’d really like to hear some backing arguments for such a strong stance coming from a person that’s not one of those rah-rah-WP-rulez trolls on these pages just like their counterpart is this tool you were replying to.

          • Janne

            Actually, in all fairness, MeeGo probably wasn’t a good idea. It unnecessarily delayed Nokia and resulted in… Well, maybe it was good idea because it resulted in Nokia going WP. 😉

            Now… Maemo. That was a good idea.

            • Saul

              The delay it caused is grossly overstated, often by folks that seem to have had nothing to do with it.
              There were several other factors at play, some of which are more significant.
              e.g. getting started so late, resources too small initially, the whole Qt retooling, it goes on.

              The focus was still very heavily on Maemo6x, it had barely shifted before the strategy was cancelled.
              So no, MeeGo was not a big mistake, it was just happening a bit too late, & a stumble at the end of 2010 w/Maemo6x got investors nervous, the rest as we know is history.

              • Janne

                Saul: Aligns with what I know, so I can pretty much agree with what you say about Maemo 6. I wonder what could have been if a Maemo 6 device was ready for spring 2010…

                However, MeeGo in itself was a detour with questionable credentials and at least some lost time and focus. I am hard-pressed to say it was a good idea.

                But it goes to ecosystems. Nokia needed ecosystem partners and I guess even OPK and the then-gang understood this. MeeGo was an attempt at an ecosystem.

                • Janne

                  MeeGo caused uncertainty too. Maemo looked like a way forward, during spring 2010 the MeeGo news seemed like a bit of a cold shower. Not necessarily the reassuring news one needed…

              • migo

                No, MeeGo was a big mistake. When it was announced the collective reaction was “WTF?”. There wasn’t a single person anywhere on the internet (seriously, I challenge you to find a single anecdote to the contrary if you disagree) who thought it was a good idea. Unlike the WP move which created a split in opinion, but at least a lot of people thought was a good idea, nobody thought MeeGo was a good idea.

                Now I don’t blame Nokia fans for supporting Nokia in doing whatever they did and coming around to like MeeGo, but it was an absolutely terrible call made by people who knew nothing about the underlying technologies. Nokia saw MeeGo in terms of business relationships, not software.

          • migo

            Maemo was a great idea. If it hadn’t been held back by Symbian and then horribly mangled by being merged with Moblin, it could have turned out quite good.

            Since it was HW compatible with webOS, they could have even bought Palm, used some of the Maemo base code but implementing the webOS UI mostly and building up from that.

            Sadly, Nokia made so many mistakes that WP was the only option left.

            • Saul

              How was it mangled by the merging with moblin?
              It was just on a year old when it was cancelled.
              It was never meant to be anywhere near ready by that point, that’s what maemo6x was for.

              How would using WebOS primarily for the UX have been a far better proposition on balance?

              • migo

                Moblin was nothing. It was a proof of concept, but it wasn’t a working OS. Maemo was already a working OS that needed polish. Instead of using all the work that was already done on Maemo, and having the Intel team support them with additional manpower (and keeping things with .deb instead of .rpm), everything went to the not yet developed Moblin side.

                webOS was regarded by pretty much everyone who looked at it as awesome in so many ways. And still today various operating systems are copying webOS – it from a UI perspective lead the modern mobile operating systems. Its only problem was shit hardware, and the N900 actually had good hardware.

                The code was compatible, underlying stuff from Maemo could have been left in, while the UI was mostly overhauled to work like webOS, and since Peter Skilman came over to Nokia anyway, it would have ended up looking something like the N9 Swipe UI anyway, but it would have been out a year earlier, with an incredibly easy dev framework in Enyo, and underlying compatibility with over 20,000 Debian programs to be ported over.

                Also, despite webOS hardly selling, it had great developer support (relative to its miniscule actual user base), and developer good will and support is what Nokia desperately needed.

                Buying Palm was always the best thing Nokia could have done, even if they hadn’t screwed up with Symbian Signed, and had actually pushed Maemo a lot earlier, buying Palm would have still been their best move.

          • Aliqudsi

            Sure, of course this is just my opinion- anyways the reason meego wasn’t a good idea is because it never provided a TRUE incetive/alternative to other OEMs to leave android for and start producing it (you might not know this but Nokia had plans to license Meego to other OEms: HTC, Sammy…) but what could possibly make you leave a blooming OS to go to a brand new one with almost no app support (Nokia doesnt have the kind of money to bribe Devs to make new apps) besides the fact that you’d be competing with Nokias own homegrown software giving it an unfair advantage.

            Who in their right mind would buy an any other meego device (say a galaxy s2 with meego) when their other option is the N9 with swipe? (keep in mind Swipe isn’t part of meego and wasn’t going to passed around- think of it as touchwiz or HTC sense.)

            • Saul

              False assumption/premises thick & fast here.
              It wasn’t anywhere near ready for that yet.
              You dont start to get a blossoming of apps until you have one or two major handset makers on-board & a steady stream devices in the pipeline.
              The attracting of more entrants would’ve started to happen in 2011/2012.
              And there was plenty of incentive for it throughout 2011 (Motorola acquisition as one e.g.).

              By the time 2012 had hit there could’ve been at least one or two major handset OEM’s on board.*
              The 1st x86 handsets would be on their way, & meego proper would’ve started to take on a far more SwipeUX/polished look.
              The 3rd and final Nokia maemo6 handset would be shipping by march at latest. And the 1st wave of meego handsets could be winging their way to market not long after.

              *in fact there was already at least one or two IIRC. LG and one other, need to check.

              • Saul

                [“And the 1st wave of meego handsets could be winging their way to market not long after.”]

                Not necessarily all handsets, could’ve been a few other form-factors in there.
                Not the 1st clunky ones that were launched end of 2010, begin of 2011.

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  • npo4

    I was thinking, do we know that Apollo is WP8?

    Apollo could just be another major update coming to all WP7 phones like Mango was, hence why it would still work on older phones like the 610.

    WP8 could be coming later than that, but it might be for new phones only, as people were thinking that it would use a different kernel, the same one used in Win8, and the only thing we know about WP8 so far is that WP7 apps will run on it.

    But WP8 would probably have all the other major features we want, like improved multitasking and support for dual-core processors and higher screen resolutions.

    • migo

      Quite possible actually. That would explain why Apollo is the end of the roadmap and we’ve heard nothing else.

      Of course there was WP7, then NoDo, then Mango which was “7.5”, then Tango, so Apollo naturaly fit into “8”, but if you look at actual version numbers, Mango is just 7.10.x, so Tango would make more sense as 7.15.x while Apollo could then be 7.20.x, being a final addition of features. Potentially upgrading the backgrounding API to handle VOIP, and a few other important features that Mango still lacks.

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  • hosny santos

    is very bad see this aliqudsi,talking sheet about one good product nokia maibe this is influence of the master flop remenber feb. 11 , and like a redactor he must be elegant and respect all poster ,but is just an fanatic MS OS and nokia is nothing in his past and inovation every is beging now whit MS ,oh,oh,oh.

    • Aliqudsi

      SOrry if you got the wrong idea, but claiming that WP is now a dead OS and bringing up how awesome meego is in every post really gets on your nerves; for the record the one thing that ruined meego/n9 for me more than anything are the meego trolls/fanboys – I’ll probably explain why on my side blog so as not to start another flame war here.

      But for the record i was probably more excited than anyone else once the N9 was announced; and I was craving one even after I got my lumia (just putting that out there)

  • Nokia Symbian
    • migo

      Their priority is Skype on WP, probably the Lumia 610, but after that, I could see it happening as part of their relationship with Nokia.

  • Kara

    Someone sounds like a Windows Phone Paid Poster!

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