True background multitasking, Deep Skype integration and OTA updates for WP8
Well I thought the WP8 news was over but more stuff is still coming:
- WP8 will arrive OTA
- Deep Skype integration
- In app purchases
- True background multitasking (though current way has worked great for me too)
How is WP8 coming as an update OTA? Will there be future phones with capable hardware that will just appear with WP7.8 first? Or is this what phoneschoop was referring to earlier regarding current gen with wP8 for enthusiasts?
Source: Endaget
Category: Windows Phone
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WP8 looks pretty good, I’ll be there in the queue for a device.
In the meanwhile, the improved Start experience was completely unexpected. And great to have that for the existing devices as well.
Completely unexpected? I’m sorry, but they really had to do it! If they didn’t it would be a huge disappointment because personalization on WP7.5 was very limited. And I think that they could have gone even further, if they let us choose an image for the background!
But overall, the new possibilities of WP8 are great and I can finally start considering the purchase of these devices, as they now support most of the things I required on a smartphone.
Given that Windows 8 was somewhat limited compared to the 360, I’d say it’s not unreasonable to say it was unexpected. Expectations for the UI were low at least.
WP8 is not a smartphone. It is a computer.
That’s what she said!
Completely unexpected? I’m sorry, but they really had to do it! If they didn’t it would have been a huge disappointment because personalization on WP7.5 was very limited. And I think that they could have gone even further, if they let us choose an image for the background!
But overall, the new possibilities of WP8 are great and I can finally start considering the purchase of these devices, as they now support most of the things I required on a smartphone.
Well, my bad then – I anticipated a lot, a lot of things. Including exactly how the WP 7.8 / WP8 issue would play out… but I did not expect a new Start experience, not like that anyway.
Maybe you guys were better at predicting that. I wasn’t.
I’d like to hear more about this “Improved multitasking”
I still think the multitasking will be limited and managed (to conserve resources and offer a more uniform experience), so those hoping for a full-on multitasking show better go Android or BB10.
If this is true, then I may have to bid aideu to nokia… they’ve technically killed both TRUE multitasking platforms Symbian and Meego..and their primary OS still doesn’t support it? wow.. i’m at a loss for words.
Lol, what a drama queen.
With the imminent death of symbian and meego, you’ll never see anything like this http://mynokiablog.com/2012/05/30/video-nokia-603-multitasking-57-apps-on-belle-fp1/ on a Nokia device in the future. You may be okay with the basic functionality that is offered in WP, but many people aren’t.
But those people seem to be on a steady decline.
Is Android on a steady decline?
He mentioned Symbian and MeeGo. Symbian and MeeGo is not Android. Majority of people aren’t making decisions based on the ability or inability to multitask in a certain way.
I’m sorry Jay, but I haven’t read any article on MNB or anywhere else that said Android/Symbian users are jumping ship and dumbing down their smartphone experience with wp…
Good point. The OS should evolve to become better, not worse. I’d be surprised if Android Jelly Bean would have the appearance of WP and iOS, minus all the connectivity and hardware advantage of both aforementioned platforms.
There’s this thing called an iPhone which doesn’t do full multitasking and seems to do fine. Why? Because majority buyers aren’t making the choice of whether they should get phone x or y based on the ability to multitask a certain way. Many people might, but they aren’t the majority.
Regarding Android/Symbian users jumping ship – there isn’t a mass exodus of sorts jumping to WP7.5. No not at all. it’s not even a world wide thing. but there are some small examples, though at the moment quite negligible.
the same person had gone another try and done 64 apps.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-B7fAOUjqs.
WP8 will support true multitasking, Windows supports it, just the implementation won’t be as slick as BB10.
Windows CE supports true multi-tasking too. That didn’t mean it was in WP7 and just because they share the Windows 8 core, it doesn’t mean they’ll allow it in WP8 either.
Fair point.
Sure, technically even WP7 supports multitasking of course, but the way apps are allowed to co-exist is managed – and will continue to be managed in WP8. There will be no Maemo-like full-on multitasking with task-managers and virtual memory and stuff, not in WP7, not in WP8… and as far as I expect, not in WP10 either. It will be very managed, with automatic application freezing and so on.
It will improve from what it is now, but it will still be closer to the iOS approach than the Maemo/Symbian/MeeGo approach.
+1. This announcement makes it very clear that multitasking on WP8 / W8 Metro is second grade class at best. (Finally) on par with Android, but desktop-Windows, Symbian and MeeGo/Maemo are superior.
Given how much Symbian crashes while multitasking, I find it hard to accept a claim that it’s superior. Extra features only count if they work flawlessly 95%+ of the time.
Arun:
I’m just being real with you. WP has the iOS approach to multitasking, they seem to like it and are sticking to it.
You are better off with an OS that matches your personal preferences. I doubt you’ll ever get that from WP.
Sure, WP will improve in this area, but it will likely never be the regular, free kind of multitasking you like.
I’m fine with how it is, as long as they keep improving it, but I understand why it is not for all people.
So, don’t wait for it to be fixed. It won’t be, not anytime soon. Many things will come, but not free/open multitasking.
I guess i just hoped for way too much. Sticking to symbian/android then.
I’m a big fan of real multitasking, so don’t think for a moment you’re alone in your wants. So, I am sad with you in that respect. Personally I just decided long ago (December 2010 when I first got a WP) that the good things in it outweigh the bad things for me.
But it is not for everyone. And for those whom it isn’t, free yourself to look for the dream elsewhere. It will not come here unless a management change at Nokia forces a platform change.
Okay, put aside multitasking. One of the more important complaints I’ve had with WP was the Zune suite, and lack of open file system. Every thing had to go through the pc suite. Now in wp8, they did announce SD Card support… But does this open up the file system? Also, Will we see media players capable of playing non-converted avi,mkv,etc content directly? This is possible on symbian, android, even on iOS via jailbreak-installing XBMC. The new enhanced Tiles ui really is tempting, but i still want my smartphone to meet these basic fundamental needs.. Allowing me to connect it to my pc, instantly copying a document or a movie or any content, without proprietary format conversion, and accessing it via apps.
Arun: Good questions there. I expect the file-system to remain always somewhat closed, but with the introduction of SD cards and new APIs for apps… probably more opening up in the areas you mention.
I could see them allowing more and more media files (or apps could add support for new ones), yes.
Also, allowing better sharing and syncing and transferring of files between a PC and the phone, sure. I expect it to improve.
But on the other hand a free-for-all file browser for the entire file system I don’t see happening, so no there.
If I remember correctly, I also expect that apps will at some point be able to integrate to the Windows Phone Share menu, so support for new things there. But I’m not sure of this.
A lot of it all is still unknown. So, it will be an area that will develop like the multitasking question, but full filesystem freedoms? Probably never.
Not sure it means anything at all in practice, but Bellefore (? spelling) does say at the beginning when talking about the same core something like “same kernel, same networking, same file structure”.. if W8 allows you to manage files, perhaps they will allow it on WP8 too now in some form/to some extent.
Belfiore.
WP8 would only share with Windows RT and the Metro side of Windows 8, and from my experience with the Windows 8 CP, the filesystem is pretty limited.
I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything like the Symbian filesystem to make a return (not that I mind, it was something of a pain to deal with).
they should just have a my documents folder that apps/user can access, even through usb
If it’s real, better than N9 style multitasking you want, then you should go for BB10. Head over to crackberry and see what they’ve got posted. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
The popular demand seems to be screaming for Windows Phone’s “excellent” and “intuitive” multitasking. Not.
tell me about true multitask on android (for common app)
I’d rather tell you about TRUE multitasking on symbian http://mynokiablog.com/2012/05/30/video-nokia-603-multitasking-57-apps-on-belle-fp1/
dont tell me
I’m one of the main maltitask apologist here…
but…anyway…its time to say BB to Nokia
I’m not convinced that Android multitasking would be any more reliable (although the UI implementation of it certainly beats Windows 8), but BB10 is definitely where the high end multitasking experience will be.
BB10 is pure copy cat of meego
No, it’s a pure copy cat of webOS, and MeeGo is also a pure copy cat of webOS. Of course they both come by it honestly as both MeeGo and BB10 had/have ex-Palm devs working on the OS.
I think you’re probably right. Obviously apps like media players and VoIP need it but I certainly hope it is not available to all developers.
I may be wrong but my understanding is that they have only added location as another available multi-tasking “trigger”, i.e. it is still not true multitasking, the OS still decides which app runs when, not the user or the developer.
I think it will be true multitasking, depending on the hardware. With support up to 64 cores, there’s no friggin way it’s not true multitasking.
MinWin supports up to 64 cores, but you won’t be seeing anything higher than 4 for WP8 (I figure by the time 6 or 8 core ARM chips are out, we’ll be looking at 8.5 at the very least, if not 9).
It will be probably done by using a special API that would load-balance the use and so on – where only a portion of your app will run in the background to do those updates, while the app itself would go into hibernation.
It doesn’t appear they will let a fully blown service/daemon, or the whole app, to run in the back.
I’d say that’s a good thing at the moment. With limited resources you don’t want full multitasking. Although, Windows 8 brings in some kernel optimisations to be able to double dip into the memory, so maybe eventually they’ll be able to get it working fine. Conditioning devs to make use of APIs is a much better approach though, as it might take quite some time for that to happen.
wp8 looks good, just hope nokia makes something great for it,
At least wp8 seems right. But wp7.8? Bad move. Nokia. Bad move.
Why? Do you want WP8 on current WP7.5 devices? What for if they don’t support higher resolutions, NFC, SDCards, 2+Cores, etc?
In WP7.8 you will have all the WP8 functionalities that current WP7.5 can support.
One of the three WP8 resolutions is still 800×480 so that’s not a reason to not support WP8 on the current handsets.
If all you’re getting in WP7.8 is a new start screen, also missing will be VOIP, DirectX game support, Skype integration, multitasking, OTA updates, in-app purchasing, native C/C++ apps…
Even if my PC might not have a GFX that support DirectX 11 I still want Windows 7 , should i still be stuck in Vista?
Of course I want WP8 on my existing Lumia . Why not?
Sure i can’t get higher resolutions, just like i can’t get that on another devices that is limited by the screen.
Sure i cant use a dual-core that I don’t have.
Sure i cant play games that require DirectX11 and 512MB graphics card on my PC if I don’t have that hardware, i can still Get windows 7 on it.
There are more important things that was not mentioned.
Will WP7.8 contain 50 languages with proper Asian language support? Skype integration, improved multitasking, Offline maps (not just drive), will there be tethering finally? Will there be new Bluetooth profiles? Will there even be search functionality that WP7.5 devices today lack if you don’t run in English?
You cant even do voice dial today unless you set you phone to English.
There are a lot of features that is not dependent on hardware, and I’ve heard no valid reason for Windows Phone 8 not to come to existing devices yet …
Or is all we get a new start screen and some updates for applications that already exist ..like PlayTo that has been out for month?
Who will but a Lumia today, if you know there will be something new around the corner, and the Lumia’s will be limited and forgotten soon?
That’s a bad example, Windows 7 is Windows Vista from an architecture point of view. Windows Phone 8 is a completely different architecture from Windows Phone 7. It’s somewhat less feasible to implement WP8 on current WP7 hardware.
The other thing with your Vista example is XP-Vista brought about a huge leap in system requirements (also similar to WP8 from WP7), while Vista-7 brought in a slight drop in system requirements, and 7-8 will do that even further, to the point that a system that couldn’t reliably run Vista or 7 could actually run 8. I wouldn’t count on anything like that happening with WP7 devices, I’d expect WP7.8 to be it, along with the unofficial WP8 for enthusiasts that has been rumoured.
The point though is you’re not comparing apples to apples here. Sometimes things are annoying, but they’re understandable because of technical constraints. Other times it’s just arbitrary. No transit directions in Bing Maps? Absurd, and unforgivable. No WP8 for current devices? Disappointing, but understandable.
WP7.8 is a good move. WP8 needs to have a higher spec to compete with ICS, BB10 and iOS6, and providing a WP8 update to current hardware would provide an unsatisfactory experience (rather like running iOS5 on a 3GS), so 7.8 is actually the right move to make. If WP8 could run on current hardware, it would be lagging behind the competition in the feature department.
WP7.8 with Nokia Lumia-specific additional updates is a barely adequate move, though. Not super-bad, but adequate just barely. It will be a tough sell over the next two-three months or so. They need to add a lot of sugar (new features, new promotions, special upgrade offers etc.) to make it all stick. Let’s see how it will go.
The WP8 platform change in itself looks very smart.
For non-Lumia WP phones, without the extra Nokia-love, though? Who would buy those now is beyond me. Even Lumias will be a tougher sell once this information is widely out there. I’m guessing not many Titan II’s will shift now…
But still, of course, all of this we expected months ago. Now the wider market will get to assess it. We shall see.
Oddly the hourly-updated Amazon AT&T’s Best Sellers list has all 3 Lumia 900s in the top 9 which is unprecedented. The black is no. 6 which is down from where it usually places but I’m surprised to see 3 in the top 9 right now. It probably won’t last though.
Nokia/AT&T would be wise to offer AT&T customers an early update option…
It’s not like non-Lumia WPs were selling much before today, so I think that’s a moot point. Most non-Lumia WP users are on first-gen handsets, so it’s not as much of a sting.
Lumia 710 for $250 seriously undercuts the HTC Radar for $350 – it’s almost impossible to suggest buying the Radar unless you really, really want video calling, so in the case of HTC it’ll be a small number of disgruntled customers.
I agree, I wouldn’t recommend anything other than a Lumia 710 or 610 at the moment, and that’s largely because right now at that price point you can’t get anything half as good on Android, iOS, BlackBerry or Symbian, and even if you do get an Android at around $200, it’ll run GB at best, and you’ll be waiting on the custom ROM community to bring ICS to it (if it ever happens, the Optimus One for instance is going to max out around CM7).
For someone who has a currently working phone that they could stand to keep using for another 6 months, I’d definitely recommend they wait – moreso for BB10 at the moment than WP8.
If someone’s willing to spend $500 at the moment though, an Android shipping with ICS does seem a safer bet – at least ICS is a good OS to start with, rather than GB which you’d console yourself with the thought of upgrading to ICS, and you know dual-core hardware will support another upgrade, even if it’s not through official channels.
Personally, I’d rather buy a new phone at $200-$300 every 12-18 months than buy a new phone at $500-$600 every 24-30 months. By the time 24 months rolls around, that $500 phone won’t be as good as the mid-range $250 one you just bought.
I think Windows phone 8 has a chance! The same core across all devices i GREAT!
As a Lumia owner I hope 7.8 will bring many software improvments from win phone 8…. :S
Comment from http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/06/20/meet-windows-phone-7-8-microsofts-stopgap-measure-for-older-handsets/
John Pope
“Hi Ignacio, John with Nokia here. Your Lumia will receive an update with new WP8 features, including the new start screen. It’ll also receive a pattern of updates from Nokia that will deliver new features like wifi tethering, flip-to-silence and media content streaming. We’re also introducing new apps for our Lumia range, as well as updates to Drive and other experiences. Some of the new innovations on WP8 are hardware dependent like NFC and multi-core processors and so cannot be made available on existing hardware, which I submit works pretty good.”
Jay, about the OTA updates. I’m guessing they are talking about future updates for wp8-phones. As when you already are having it, the next ones are OTA? Maybe it supports Wp7,5 now to upgrade OTA to 7,8?
I think you’d need to have a wired update first that bakes in OTA update support.
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476
Paul says that the 7.8 update will be over the air?!
“Windows Update. Windows Phone 7.8 will be delivered directly to all Windows Phone users, bypassing the carriers. You will be able to download and install Windows Phone 7.8 over Wi-Fi, at home or wherever else, and install this update. This type of updating will be made available in Windows Phone 8, as well, as given my long, loud, and lengthy complaining about the lack of such updating in Windows Phone 7.x, you won’t be surprised, maybe, to discover that Microsoft jokingly calls this “the Paul Thurrott feature” internally. “
Yes OTA updates are for WP8.0+ onwards. There is no 7.8 to 8.0 upgrade path, wireless or otherwise.
3 of the 4 points up there (in main post) require clarification since Engadget themselves seem to have misunderstood.
1) OTA updates are NOT for 7.5/7.8 to 8.0
2) The “deep” skype integration is actually not deep to begin with. Skype will be a downloadable app (so not even pre-installed) but the VoIP APIs and framework is so well designed that any VoIP app can plug right in and “become almost native”. This applies to all VoIP apps including Skype. So Skype won’t necessarily be any deeper than say Viber or Tango (provided they make the effort)
4) The “True multitasking” isn’t really. Its the same managed multitasking as it was with new exceptions for 2 kinds of services: VoIP and Location. There might be more special cases but on the whole, its not a Symbian/Maemo/MeeGo model. Its very much a managed model with provisions for different use cases(as it should be IMO).
With regards to point #2, I’ll be quite happy to be able to use my Voip.ms features again. The built in SIP stack is one of the few things I really missed from my N95.