MNB RG: Jolla established by Nokia’s bridge project
Earlier today we had a post covering some info about Jolla Mobile. There was a video interview with Jolla’s CEO which Muerte translates below.
- - Jolla was established by Nokia’s bridge project (most likely IPR transfered as well)
- - Fruitful co-operation in both ways (Jolla-Nokia)
- - They are an independent company
- - They are here to create something new in terms of user experience and technology. Something significant. They want to be the leaders, not followers.
- - Devices coming this year (they will announce only things that they can deliver)
- - Production in Asia (most likely, doesn’t reveal who are the partners) via ODM partners.
- - Surprised by the massive global interest after saturday
- - Thankful to Nokia
- - They aim to be truly big in the next few years (as he sees that in ten years this industry is so different/it doesn’t exist in the way it is today, nobody can forecast the change)
- - They are not trying to be “the new Nokia”
Janne said:
Jolla was established in Nokia’s Bridge program and the guys at Jolla are very thankful to Nokia for it. For those that don’t know, the Bridge program is a Nokia sponsored entrepreneurship program that aims to encouraging and helping people leaving Nokia to build a business for themselves. Nokia also has a long history of sponsoring entrepreneurship around products and projects that they themselves are not going to continue, apparently now MeeGo falling under this category as well.
This is surprisingly impressive social responsibility from Nokia and the management that thus far has been claimed to be on a killing spree of all things non-Microsoft. Apparently Nokia have now, through this program, actually sponsored the MeeGo spin-off at Jolla.
Kudos to both Nokia and Jolla for this impressive feat!
Cheers Janne for the tip and Muerte for the translation!
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Sites That Link to this Post
- Jolla costituita grazie al Nokia Bridge Project | July 10, 2012
- Gadgets Nokia Gives Laid Off Employees $30K Loans to Start New Firms | | July 11, 2012
- Gadgets Nokia Gives Laid Off Employees $30K Loans to Start New Firms | Firman23 | July 22, 2012
MeeGo, the big Plan B to save Nokia.
In theory, perhaps not really? But at the very least, the conclusive proof that Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft and Elop is not a nazi from the dark side of the moon.
I got to hand it to Nokia, I never thought they were evil like some did, but sponsoring a competing offspring is even more impressive social responsibility I could ever imagine. Truly magnificent.
What would a regular company do to a (competing) technology it does not need? Kill it. What does Nokia do? Sponsor their former employees at having a go at it instead.
There are many examples of this in Nokia history (Sports Tracker being a remotely similar story) and I am glad to see them continue the values and traditions they have.
conclusive proof really? lol
seems more like the old guard (board/execs) actions and thoughts were behind this rather than something the new guy wanted/condoned
and even still what are the odds they’ll succeed unless they do get swallowed back up
No matter, this is conclusive proof Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft. And were Elop really a space nazi, he’d have panzered this idea to oblivion.
But don’t worry, not even I really saw this one coming, so I won’t be serving any “I told you so’s” today.
Its a pity that jolla isn’t like accenture is for symbian
Janne, you couldn’t be that much of an idiot. Perhaps they’ve seen the writing on the wall that the Windows “strategy” is a complete and abject failure and have absolutely no choice but to look for a Plan B.
This is not about how wonderful Microsoft is in allowing Meego to survive.
Not even you could possibly believe that bullshit you wrote about “impressive social responsibility”. Nobody could be that much of a moron.
napier: Don’t be so cynical. But also don’t think I’m not a realist. Social responsibility has benefits too.
I said nothing about Microsoft. I doubt they have anything to do with this. I was merely commenting on how it is good to see Nokia support a non-Microsoft project, because they have been accused on the contrary. I think it also adds a little positive tingle on Elop’s tenure.
Certainly it is possible that Jolla is a contigency plan, I don’t think that is impossible, but it does seem a little far off to assume it at least. But you must be completely ignorant of Nokia’s history to think that this kind of event is something new for Nokia. They have a significant history of supporting entrepreneurship for products and projects they don’t themselves use.
It is quite likely a win-win situation for Nokia. They get/got the commitment/services of the key Jolla people for maintaining the N9 as long as was necessary and the good PR that comes from a move like this. Jolla gets Nokia’s blessing to go ahead without bad feelings and got to start the project while still employed at Nokia and finishing PR1.3 and so on. Everybody wins. (And MeeGo itself probably isn’t assumed to be that direct of a competitor to Lumia, so not a direct threat.)
As for plan B, I’ve said all along Nokia had contigency plans and planning. Even when people said they didn’t, so obviously they have contigency plans. Is this part of them? Who knows.
First of all, this is nothing new. Nokia has been doing this quite a while. Trying to find work for those who it fires, because the people, the politicians and the media has been making such big noise about the layoffs since they started in Germany. Without that noise, Nokia wouldn’t be doing shit or very little.
Secondly, how do you kill an open source OS? MeeGo is free to anyone to use, Nokia cannot kill it, except within Nokia of course. But as far as rest of the world outside Nokia, it cannot kill MeeGo as it is an open source OS.
“In theory, perhaps not really? But at the very least, the conclusive proof that Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft and Elop is not a nazi from the dark side of the moon.”
You just can’t help yourself can you?
P.S.: Nokia != Elop
Sorry, I forgot: Whenever Nokia does something evil, it is Elop. When it does something good, it someone other than Elop.
Get a grip. This is huge news.
“Sorry, I forgot: Whenever Nokia does something evil, it is Elop. When it does something good, it someone other than Elop.”
Take that strawman!
“Get a grip.”
You get a grip.
Elop has taken offensive action against not one, not two but three of Nokia’s OS.
“This is huge news.”
Agreed.
Again you assume “evil” action coming from Elop and “good” action coming from someone else. You assume motivations. None of those may be factual.
What *is* factual is that something like this happening on Elop’s watch is monumental, beyond anything in recent Nokia history. This is big.
And it is conclusive proof Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft. Huge, in your face, can not deny it kind of proof.
“Again you assume “evil” action coming from Elop and “good” action coming from someone else. You assume motivations.”
You assume that I assume motivations.
“None of those may be factual.”
But Someone said that it’s a War Of Ecosystems, and proceeded to take offensive action against Nokia’s own offerings. Do you deny that?
“What *is* factual is that something like this happening on Elop’s watch is monumental, beyond anything in recent Nokia history. This is big.”
Indeed. I would like to know the details on how those things turned out.
Do you think that Elop’s position is as strong now than before the Elopcalypse?
“And it is conclusive proof Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft. Huge, in your face, can not deny it kind of proof.”
I don’t recall saying that Nokia is out to kill all things non-Microsoft.
Elop, on the other hand has a documented history of attacking non-Microsoft smartphone offerings in Nokia while promoting Microsoft stuff. Do you deny it?
Note that, had you been content to just post the news, without bringing in the great man name, we wouldn’t be talking about him.
I claim it is conclusive proof that Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft like some have claimed. I make no other claims about Elop than that this one happening on his watch is proof he is no space nazi, because he at the very least allowed this one – but in all possibility his involvement was more than that. I do think this is to Elop’s merit through position.
However, you are apparently claiming that all the “offensive” action came from Elop and the positive action from someone else. Truth in all probability lies somewhere else, for example it is widely quoted (by Kai himself too) that Öistamö blew the whistle on MeeGo. Of course you ignore that because you believe Elop is the evil one, but what if many of your assumptions are not true.
Try challenging those a little, with this piece of news, and see how the picture changes. What if there is far more consensus amongst the Nokia executive team and board, including Elop and all, than you give them credit.
“(…)I make no other claims about Elop than that this one happening on his watch is proof he is no space nazi, because he at the very least allowed this one – but in all possibility his involvement was more than that. I do think this is to Elop’s merit through position.”
Or maybe he was overruled. His well documented history in Nokia of hostility against non-MS smartphone OSes is testifying against him, and he has nobody but himself to blame.
“However, you are apparently claiming that all the “offensive” action came from Elop and the positive action from someone else. Truth in all probability lies somewhere else, for example it is widely quoted (by Kai himself too) that Öistamö blew the whistle on MeeGo. Of course you ignore that because you believe Elop is the evil one, but what if many of your assumptions are not true.”
I ignore nothing. The N9 was there on the market before any of the WP offerings, notion of “good” and “evil” not withstanding.
“Try challenging those a little, with this piece of news, and see how the picture changes. What if there is far more consensus amongst the Nokia executive team and board, including Elop and all, than you give them credit.”
Or maybe, despite all the there is no plan B, there is a plan B after all. Maybe cracks are starting to appear in the big happy family, swimming in the consensus.
Seriously Janne, knowing Elop’s well documented history, does that surprises you that I have a hard time believing that Elop willingly went along the idea?
Unless we see Elop resigning in the coming days over a “disagreement with the board”, I’ll continue giving him at the very least merit through position on this one – and possibly more. I make no claims as to how much more, just a possibility. But if we hold CEO responsible for the bad, we must hold them responsible for the good as well.
You keep talking of a well-documented history, as if all those decisions are somehow proven to be by Elop’s alone and this particular one by someone else. Yet all that is based on a boatload (bigger than a dinghy) of assumptions on who did what. Again, the Kai Öistamö example is actually speaking loudly against your assumptions on the on-topic case of MeeGo.
Both Jorma Ollila (at AGM) and Risto Siilasmaa (last week) spoke extremely strongly in favour of Elop and the new strategy. They were standing behind it, much more forcefully and unitedly then at least I thought necessary. I was surprised by their strong stance, they were putting their own characters on the line as well.
It is quite possible the decision-making was much more diverse and/or had much more concensus than you give them credit for. You just assume all the bad came from Elop and now you assume the good came from someone else. The reality might be something completely different.
Sure, Elop’s head is on the chopping block if results don’t improve with WP8 – that is the nature of being CEO in a public company. The new strategy is also clearly identified with him in public, so I’m sure he is very emotionally invested in it. But that doesn’t mean he steamrolled the new strategy just by himself – or tried to stand in the way of the Jolla move.
What if, just what if, he actually is a much nicer guy than you think. For all we know, he might genuinely think this is a nice gesture towards the former employees. It isn’t impossible. And it is likely to improve his legacy at Nokia (and in Finland and the wider world) as well, come what may.
@Janne.
“Unless we see Elop resigning in the coming days over a “disagreement with the board”, I’ll continue giving him at the very least merit through position on this one – and possibly more. I make no claims as to how much more, just a possibility. But if we hold CEO responsible for the bad, we must hold them responsible for the good as well(…)”
In theory I would agree with you. Unfortunately, his past actions point towards hostility towards non-MS platforms.
When he comes and promotes non-MS platforms, I will change my opinion of the guy.
Personally, I’m in the opinion of removing all of those that supported his ideas, so that we are clear.
I speak about Elop because he is the figurehead that regaled me with his Burning Platform stories, War of Ecosystems and his rah rah MS rhetoric, if you know hat I mean.
“What if, just what if, he actually is a much nicer guy than you think.”
Could well be. My beef with him is as Nokia’s CEO.
But no, he threw away countless man hours of work, hundreds million euros, all those things that have been built, assets that have been accumulated, all that to promote a foreign platform. You may be OK with that, I’m of another opinion.
“For all we know, he might genuinely think this is a nice gesture towards the former employees. It isn’t impossible.”
It isn’t. Unfortunately for him, his record speaks against him.
“And it is likely to improve his legacy at Nokia (and in Finland and the wider world) as well, come what may.”
I hope that one day, we’ll have the inside scoop of those years at Nokia.
So let’s call it a night about him – I think that, he less said about him, the better.
As you said, it’s good news.
On another note, do you think that the infamous Plan B will be revealed the 19th? And if yes, what would it be?
yasu: A fair message from you. I’ll keep the comments short.
Now, I’m not saying I’m okay with that. I’ve come to terms with the events, but I do blame a host of things at Nokia over the past years for the misfortunes that have struck. There are many to blame, including OPK, a lot of the Symbian management and so forth. The latest on the list is certainly Elop for multiple mistakes made. Maybe some of what he did was now necessary, maybe not, but there certainly is a lot of blame to go around. Nokia may fail. Nokia may get acquired. Where is my Maemo.
However, that is not the same as thinking it the likeliest scenario he has an agenda agaist all things non-Microsoft. I think this move proves he at least is not the dark dictator some made him out to be, but most importantly – and clearly – that this is not the new Nokia either. These events show a little soul and I like it.
First of all, I dont thinkthat Nokia is killing allnon-MS relayesstuff.
This still doesnot show theyare promotinganythingelsethanMs ecosystem.Did Nokia say in theirpress releasethat itsgreat that Qtis used? Do you lnow fora fact that Jollais given rigths forIP?
I dont see Nokia hinderinganything, but I dont see any true signs of support. What doesthe Bridgeprogram consistof,can you openit up? Typicallylargecorporations offer egHR consulting and alaosome level of businessconsulting through3rd oarties. Some helo from Nokia’s sidewould alreadybeopening the infornation, what is okin terms of IP properties.
Oneshould not takeoverly negative or positive stanceonthe given information.
Btw.doyou know fora fact Öistämö wasthe one killing Meego? Did hecollect the facts?Did heinterview egJ Contreras?Read again yhr WSJstory
Iwillbecome100%believerinNokia’sgoodfaithwhentheygivetheMeltemisourcecodetoorojectKyvyt;)
lBefore the first interview, Elop drew out what he knew about the plans for MeeGo on a whiteboard, with a different color marker for the products being developed, their target date for introduction, and the current levels of bugs in each product. Soon the whiteboard was filled with color, and the news was not good: At its current pace, Nokia was on track to introduce only three MeeGo-driven models before 2014-far too slow to keep the company in the game. Elop tried to call Oistämö, but his phone battery was dead. “He must have been trying an Android phone that day,” says Elop. When they finally spoke late on Jan. 4, “It was truly an oh-s–t moment-and really, really painful to realize where we were,” says Oistämö.l
IcallthatbullshitandifithasbeenthekeyreasontokillMeego/Maemo.Theyalreadyhadtwomodelsready,L900ismostorbablydoneonMeegophonechassis.TheoriginalworkonMaemo6consistedofdualcoreSTEricssonchip.Theycouldhaveeasilydeliverednorethan3nodelsby2014!
Thisisoneoftheitemsihaveagripeon.
I don’t know if Jolla is given rights for any IP. In fact, my personal expectation would be that they wouldn’t be.
I personally consider it a huge gesture that Jolla were allowed to use the Nokia Bridge program for establishing this, in essence a competing business, in open communication with Nokia. That alone sends to me a very positive vibe from Nokia. Anything extra is gravy. Also, Nokia handing out MeeGo stuff towards the Linux Foundation and all that past, makes it possible.
Had a picture much different been painted of Nokia here recently I wouldn’t think too much of it. But the mood being what it has been, I do think this lightens things up considerably. This was really an old-fashioned, damn nice gesture from Nokia, and the one thing that separates them from the cut-throat competitors out there.
As for Öistämö, of course I don’t know what exactly went down. But I did read all the interviews at the time and that was the message that he too was sending out. In any case, it is just an example that it isn’t at all impossible that signal(s) of MeeGo not working came from someone other than Elop. Same with Meltemi.
Only if you assume the worst, does the trojan agenda theory make sense. I don’t assume either the best nor the worst. Reality is probably somewhere in-between.
jiipee: What happened to your spacebar?
As for the reasons to kill MeeGo, I don’t buy the simplified version that came from the interviews and presentations either – they should have opened up their rationale on that more. We don’t know all the factors that went into it.
But that doesn’t mean Öistämö didn’t blow the whistle or that the reasons given weren’t part of the rationale. Also, Ollila and Siilasmaa have also been very vocal in defending the WP decision as the result of critical assessment.
I just don’t find it very likely that Elop alone turned all the heads and/or forced this on the BoD, or made all the subsequent cuts and bruises alone according to his agenda. I think the reality is quite a bit more complex than that.
But I don’t claim to know. I’m just handing out, I think, valid reasons to not to believe the worst either. Keep an open mind.
Elop has brought us the Lumia line with a 96% satisfaction rating by Nielson survey. Nokia Play 360 and Headphones, Headsets, Luna. He has partnered with one of the largest companies in the World and countless others, something not done before. He has brought more Symbian phones and greatly updated the Asha line to “is it a smartphone or a feature phone?” The app store has a growth rate that has risen faster than any other in number of apps. He has taken a company that employees said, “no one is accountable” and turned it into a turn around company with a stronger plan of contribution to margin for each department. The new OS is not plagued by the problems of the growing malware giant that plagues Android because of the OS of Windows7.5. He brought a 41mp camera phone to market.
He killed symbian, meego and meltemi. he allows m$ to osborne lumia series putting Nokia in a gap between not_wanted_anymore wp7.5 and _who_knows_when_it_will_be_released wp8
I’m not even talking that from technical standpoint wp8 far behind both symbian and meego
Janne, the thing I do not understand is that why are you so eager to defend MS and Elops actions?
So far there is hardly evidence that this “partnership” is beneficial for nokia and time will tell if it never will be. Certainly the investors are not believing since the stock price is in deep dive. In my book Elop is not a good leader he is not someone I can look up to and he lacks social skills.
This was the first positive sign really and I hope the trend will be improving. Still cannot comprehend the other recent actions.
First, I don’t think I have ever really defended Microsoft, unless in passing in some limited context. Sure, they are a better company than in history (starting around the .NET era), even the Woz thinks so now, but my interest in then is mainly through some of the products I like – nothing more. Windows 8 looks interesting in all its forms and I do like the Xbox.
As for Elop, I’d put him in the wider context of trying to follow and understand Nokia. I have made my own analysis of what I think they are doing, my own decisions as a user (and to certain extent as a developer), and come to certain conclusions – including the one that I actually like the Lumia products and want to use them. Mostly I am defending my views of what I believe Nokia is and what they are doing, Elop included.
Those views have come under attack here so many times, I think it is only natural to try and explain it further when opportunities arise. So, consider it more from a perspective of defending my views, not Elop or Nokia whom I’ve in fact criticized many times, but which is usually forgotten or ignored by those who mainly look for faults in my position. I think I have information and insight that contributes to the discussion and so I take part.
Nice gesture by Nokia.
But i don’t know the law and how unions work i Finland but i some other countries there forced to do thinks like this when they lay of so many people.
Was it free choice or the union and laws that forced them to do this?
Like in Sweden they would be forced to help people get new jobs and maybe even pay a year salary.
And they had to negotiate with the municipality to be able to lay of, so it might have been cheaper to do things like this.
But as i said i don’t know how the law and unions work in Finland.
There is no real legal obligation for Nokia to actually give anything in Finland. Not even severance packages.
In Finland companies pay higher taxes so that the society will take care of the unemployed.
This is actually often quoted by the unions as a flaw in the Finnish system, because multinational companies lay people off in Finland because it is relatively easy here. Usually companies offer severance packages only to get rid of certain limited rehiring obligations they have towards terminated employees.
I’m sure there is certain union and societal pressure on Nokia to have things like the Nokia Bridge program in place, but certainly nobody expected them to spin off a competing business…
In fact, I remember cases where people were laid off in Finland rather than Sweden, because it is easy here compared to the Swedish system. Seeing Gäst’s explanation it makes sense to me now.
Well it’s actually pretty easy in Sweden also.
But since Nokia was a mayor employee and a hole municipality were dependent on it i guess it makes it harder to do mass lay offs.
And i thought Nokia were obligated to help people find new jobs.
Because the Nokia lay offs does hit hard in Finland in a small municipality.
Companies are obligated to negotiate for a period of time (few weeks depending on company size) to find solutions, which in reality means nothing in Finland, other than a grace period.
Obviously Nokia is under public pressure to handle the layoffs with care, being such a visible company, but at least quickly thinking about it no legal reasons spring to mind.
The only thing that unions usually do here in cases like this is organize some illegal strikes (and get fined for it), but that’s usually about it. Whatever happens, eventually happens anyway.
As for municipalities, the small Salo is indeed hard hit by the factory layoffs, but Jolla is composed of Helsinki and Tampere people as far as I can tell – some of the largest cities in Finland.
Janne, i was thinking if there is no law for golden handshake then why did Nokia made the mistake of paying this fired ppl as if u look into Nokia’s Q results max. loss is because of restructuring and compensating the people…
I am not sure wats the law in India but will try to find out… it cud b a classical case of a dying dino trying to play mother teresa but ??????
Also i don’t think nokia will let Jolla use swipe UI may be they share some maemo harmattan and Qt IPRs but not swipe
If Nokia does not pay compensation for people to resign themselves, Nokia would be obliged to recruit those people back, if they are recruiting people now or in the future. That comes from the law.
To make sure that a company gets motivated and 100% suitable people to vacancies, resignation compensation is offered.
Just to clarify, I believe “in the future” being to the tune of six months. It is a limited time. But jiipee is correct, that is the reason why compensation is offered.
Janne,
The bridge program has been there for years, and its part of nokia philosophy! This has nothing to do with Elop being good or evil
I know it has been. That is also what gives me the confidence to feel good about this.
This particular use of the bridge program is indeed proof that the new Nokia is not out to destroy all things non-Microsoft. And Elop is still the CEO there, so credit where it is due.
“But at the very least, the conclusive proof that Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft and Elop is not a nazi from the dark side of the moon.”
This is nothing like that. If Nokia didn’t want to kill all things non-Microsoft, there would be no need for Jolla at all. There was absolutely no need to destroy Meego and Symbian (and Meltemi) to run the Microsoft part of the business. The fact that there’s some Nokia money in this project only reveals SOME people at Nokia haven’t lost its sanity completely and want to save themselves from Elop’s utter incompetence.
Nokia is a sinking boat, everybody knows that far. Some are simply saving their asses by building its own dinghy. I’m sure there’s no seat reserved for Elop at it.
…but also there wouldn’t be any support for a Jolla either, because they’d want to allegedly kill it, not support it.
But there was support from Nokia to Jolla. And that is the whole point. Mighty nice move by Nokia. You can’t tell me that Nokia is on one hand trying to kill MeeGo and on the other helping it to a lifeboat.
The plausible explanation is that Nokia does not need MeeGo for their strategy, but there is merit in lending their leaving employees some support to have a go at it (for various reasons discussed in this thread).
Nokia has done this with previous projects and technologies as well. Look, obviously Nokia played nice on this one. And Elop is still running Nokia. Give the guys some credit. They helped out Jolla and now Jolla will help out MeeGo fans.
Hopefully good times ahead.
“And Elop is still running Nokia. Give the guys some credit.”
no way. sorry
he lost credibility completely
at least from developers, who believed in Qt strategy
“But at the very least, the conclusive proof that Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft and Elop is not a nazi from the dark side of the moon.”
given that Nokia had many camps, the other camps at least probably ensured that something fruitful came out. there’s still no proof of elop being innocent. I will wait until Nokia tides over this crisis, they are in survival mode now, and the microsoft vultures are descending with a veil of mist – they aren’t yet seen. but the moment Nokia is flailing, the redmond knights will be there for the “rescue”
Agreed with Janne , it was decision by BoD not Elop alone and why he is seen as the walking monster in Nokia he is a real nice capable guy I respect him for what he did and doing apart from the Symbain PR issue…. huge mistake that made his job uncomfortable…….
Nokia did the ryt thing being a Open Source software any one cud have used meego proper and the code contributed by ISVs including Nokia upstrm down strm and Qt so its better give them some encouragement let them use the ideas they developed at Nokia…
but Nokia will be a fool to let this jolla folks use swipe and i hope they did n’t.
I doubt they did, swipe is important for Nokia’s Asha line. My speculation is that Jolla got mostly just start-up help and Nokia’s goodwill during the time the key people were still employed at Nokia (maybe some limited consulting agreements too regarding the EOL of N9), not actually IPR or the like. But that is just me guessing in the dark of course.
Yes tweets from Nokia, Techcunch alo say IPRs were not transferedA relif
Nah, MS was the evil one.
Tell me something Janne, if Elop is so concerned about and dedicated to Nokia, why didn’t he and his family move to Finland?!
Can you imagine a CEO of a major Fortune 500 corporation not moving to where its corporate headquarters are? Let’s say Apple hires a Finnish CEO and that person instead of moving to the USA, decides to stay in Finland. What does that tell about that person’s dedication to Apple? Not anything good.
And I haven’t seen anyone else call Elop “a nazi from the dark side of the moon” except you.
Your obsession to Elop makes one wonder. You’re almost always there to hurry in his defense, when someone says something critical about your dear Elop. You just can’t let anything go. That is peculiar. It’s like you know him closely and take an offense on behalf of him.
Yeah, I think the burning platform metaphor just got a new meaning.
In addition to jumping as a company, Nokia also helped launch a dinghy in the other direction.
Please janne, keep your comments short (like the one i’m replying to now) and also, this forum doesn’t revolve around you. You hate the trolls, but being a spammer doesn’t make us love you more.
Fair comment and will take note. Although in this thread I guess it is more the excitement of the conversation that has driven me, than trollhunting. But overwhelming the thread is not cool either so I get that.
As for love, I don’t need no love here, just good discussion.
Didn’t mean to be rude, your comments are always interesting, but sometimes they are legion!
Gotcha, no worries.
Let’s hope they get some worthy co-operation from Project KYVYT, X-Meltemi Team at Nokia:
http://www.meegoexperts.com/2012/07/nokias-meltemi-linux-team-hire/
They cam now benefit from a host of potential fronts & future prospects:
1. Alien Dalvik (Android Apps to MeeGo)
2. OpenMobile ACL (Application Compatiblity Layer – Android2MeeGo)
3. TizMee (Tizen Apps & API’s to MeeGo)
4. BlueStacks (Android Apps to cross-platforms Win/PC/Mac/Linux?)
5. Tizen (the MeeGo Successor itself?)
7. Project KYVYT (X-Meltemi Team at Nokia)
And for the lack of PureView, they can consult the expertise of ALTEK, especially the companion chip, the Sunny-9 or higher (State-of-the-Art Dual-Core Image Processor, reduces image noise, supports high-precision lens focusing, adjusts exposure and optimizes white balance automatically to achieve optimal exposure and capture truer colors) :
http://www.altek.com.tw/Product/Detail.aspx?id=33
For convenience, don’t forget to choose “English” at the bottom right of page.
JM are also collecting advanced feedback/ideas regarding HW/SW Specs (they’re taking it for #JollaSpec) in official twitter stream:
https://twitter.com/JollaMobile
In addition to above remarks about Taiwan’s finest, ALTEK, here are few get-down-to-business points/links (Plz remember to select “English” at bottom right ):
IC, CCDs & Optics:
http://www.altek.com.tw/Product/Technology.aspx
Imaging DSP:
http://www.altek.com.tw/Product/Product.aspx?id=3
Pro DigiCAM Module:
http://www.altek.com.tw/Product/Product.aspx?id=2
Regards.
“And for the lack of PureView”
no pureview is not a must have feature. there’s only one phone now, there will be a few for wp8 phones, but dozens of millions of phones are selling without it, just fine
I never said PV is a must have feature. I merely provided a decent alternative tech for photography aspect which happened to be utilized by 93% of mobile-phone owners world-wide:
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/07/10/nokconv-what-real-people-do-with-their-phones-research-results/
(replied it in wrong place prviously)
I’ll enjoy the peace while it last. Somebody is bound to scream for blood anyway.
This does not (s)wipe away mistakes made, but it does come with such a boatload of goodwill that I can’t see anyone not loving Nokia for this one.
Well, yes I can, but I’m hopeful for the most part. This is really a monumental move.
Sorry arts, you were right.
rofl. not surprised. not surprised at all.
Still good news, but without the Swipe UI, Jolla won’t make up for the passing of the N9.
Happy to be proven wrong…
Yes, what Jolla will produce and how they will succeed is indeed a different story. A dinghy on open seas is a precarious situation. I for one will surely be watching it intently – and I’ll be there to buy and try whatever they come up with, we shall see then.
Im itching to hear about their business partners. Those will give the best indication, how strong their prospects are.
I wonder if Intel could be one. Or if it is more along the line of Finnish business angels. Or both. And if it is Finnish business angels, did Vanjoki, Ollila or even Siilasmaa invest.
Well they have said they support ARM & 86x sooo? :d
They’ve talked about international investors as well.
Ill make up my mind in a year, if Nokia has truly been 100% positive on this or has it been more like “Meego is open source, ofcourse you can use the open parts”. If they offer support for some and not the others, they would for sure get bad publicity and it could probably be illegal or against TES (Finnish term): everyone should be treated the same.
Btw would you mind comparing getting L800 out fast based on ready design, standard software and given SOC & standard Compal hw VS setting up a business to new UX, so far not used OS and new design by leas than 100 people. If Jolla can release before end of year, it puts Nokia strategy work in shame.
If they can bring a good device which is similar to the N9 design which means no buttons than i would be excited for it.
Well done Nokia, indeed.
I really believe Elop is an easy target for people who just want to bash Nokia anyway (Not all, but some definitely.)
People saying he should be sacked should surely be aware that the vision Elop had is about to get the real test. Sure, if WP8 fails then he should go.
If you ask me, the guy made a very difficult decision and while a lot of people see the current hardship as the be all and end all, people like Elop are there to look at the big picture and make decisions which will not only effect the next year or two, but the next five.
Consumers are a diverse lot. It is wrong to shove a single product to all of them.
Companies have limited resources, it is wrong to expect a company to satisfy every customer too.
The knife cuts both ways.
You can tell that to Samsung
Judging from Windows Phone forums, Samsung isn’t exactly satisfying the needs of WP users with their half-hearted efforts.
Bada and Symbian killed at Samsung, Tizen being whatever. No I don’t think Samsung is satisfying every need. I do agree their scope is slightly wider than Nokia’s.
You are now looking at platform/dev perspective. I was commenting from the consumer point of view. They are flooding the market in all price points, many form-factors as well as funtionalities (eg. durability)
Samsung doesn’t satisfy my need for a tablet running vanilla Android ICS/Jelly Bean, heck it doesn’t even have an update ICS for my Galaxy Tab 7.7.
So no, Samsung doesn’t satisfy every customer either.
They might not deliver succesfully, but they do deliver almost everything except IOS devices.
If they don’t deliver successfully then who cares? Because they are just flooding the market with inferior products, you know kind of like how Nokia was when they were delivering poorly made Symbian phones because they want to hit every price point?
So congratulations, you’ve just proven that trying to satisfy every customer is bad, thanks for proving my point for me.
My Nokia & Jolla blog from now on?
I for one would be a-ok with that.
We would have talked about Tizen a lot more but there’s no true MeeGo in that, in personel/spirit.
Jolla seems like a continuation of the Finnish Maemo that really brought me back to Nokia. And this news makes it even more Nokia related.
“This is surprisingly impressive social responsibility from Nokia and the management that thus far has been claimed to be on a killing spree of all things non-Microsoft.”
Hope someone will take over symbian from nokia after 2016.
I guess the open-source part of Symbian is still somewhere out there, but other than that I don’t see much life in it. Not saying I wouldn’t like to see someone try (it might be interesting), but just thinking people would have much less reason to go for that.
MeeGo, on the other hand, might have some kind of a chance. I wish all the best for Jolla.
I have symbian sources, btw
the problem that there is no legal way to use it
ps. regarding myth about symbian sources is mess – this is just not true
at least not bigger mess than linux kernel sources, for example
It’s not the sources that are the mess (well, there certainly is a good deal of mess in them, but as you say – same is with other OSes) – it’s with 10s of different, mutually incompatible versions of those sources that are the mess to maintain.
To this day I wondered how nobody realized that the way they were going it would end up in such a mess. All they had to do is to have all the teams work on the main code base and thus it would be receiving everyone’s contribution, where only specifics would be held at the non-upstream level… But the ‘internal competition’ policy implemented in Nokia made separate teams selfish with the code/feature shares and soon made the Symbian code base useless given that many versions for various devices were developed without even visiting the code base repository, instead they just copied the code from their previous device, modified it and slapped it on the new device, while the changes and bugfixes never got populated for other teams to use…
Any half-brain engineer could’ve predicted this would eventually happen, yet they kept doing it for years, until Symbian was in such a mess that S^3 and S^4 had to be devised to return it under the maintainable category. Rest is, as they say, history…
I’d love to hear from Nokia/Symbian insiders about this. I always hear about the Symbian codebase being fragile and messy, but I didn’t realize how bad it really was. I had always wondered why different devices had their own firmware and you couldn’t swap from one to another, even if the base hardware was the same.
And then they adopted also Qt and made 2 versions of it
Very interested in seeing who JM’s industrial partners are now.
I personally doubt Nokia is a (at least any kind of active) partner beyond the start-up program. Jolla is an independent company, so I guess all bets are off.
Heh, my little crazy conspiracy theories are always getting the best of me.
Hey, anything seems to be possible with Jolla.
Or maybe it is Samsung and their veiled message via the name.
Samsung is not totally out of the question. Eventhough Eldar writes a lot of fud, I believe he knew that Sammy was ready to pay substantial amount to Nokia for the Meego team and software.
Atleast from the initials, JM, I guess Jay Montano has some stake in there as well.
;D
haha, i’ll get some JM merchandise and make it look like personalised items for me, :p.
In that case you may have way more deeper stake than I originally thought.
Their success, Your future!
Merry bloggin.
BTW, J, is it possible for you to expand OP with translated content from the link I posted below (#comment-612553)?
They’ve referred your post in an active thread @ Maemo Forums:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1234773&postcount=317
A first true open source phone
nokia came out of their stupidity and now are playing it backwards to Elop and Microsoft . if nokia continued support meego would come out badly fought, because the contract he signed with microsoft . now nokia Strikes and Elop and Microsoft can do ? …. nothing! because nokia is not jolla . a very smart move from Nokia . I can see the future : nokia and Lumia WP8 a disaster , well, buy jolla and problem solved
So this is now the spin, then. When Nokia does something bad, it is on Elop. When they do something good, it is by someone else – the mythical “Nokia”, against Elop. Goalposts flying in the air.
Elop is the CEO who sanctioned this. At the very least he deserves merit through position, but quite possibly more than that. Clearly Nokia is not out to kill all things non-Microsoft.
As for your future speculation, I guess that is not an impossible scenario.
Few more bits of translated interview:
nokiagadgets.com/2012/07/09/jollas-ceo-interviewed-in-finnish-tv/
They seem to have gained a lot of followers in twitter since Saturday (6940 and counting) and have had a lot of interest in every other media as well. I loved watching the interview of Jussi Hurmola, CEO of Jolla Mobile and hearing his thoughts about all this media buzz. According to him, it all started off from a single twitter-message of him saying: “MeeGo is not dead” and then *BOOM* <— Boom being the big bang that started this whole media attention [/captain obvious]. I sure hope these guys can deliver after all this hype in the air. Releasing a mediocre device (both UI and HW wise) will instantly diminish this company to a.. a.. what?
We need more info. in the fullness of time before we can start using this as some kind of “yardstick”.
They’ve also said some things that “totally” contradict what Nokia’s said officially about MeeGo.
Read the main thread at TMO, I can’t recall them all OTTOMH right now…
Obviously. These guys believe in MeeGo more than Nokia did, I think that is only natural.
But let’s not make more of that than it is. Their comments on Nokia have been extremely positive.
If any bad vibes linger (and I’d call them only natural because their original baby got stopped), they let them graciously be.
But again, none of this basic stuff is actually out of character for Nokia, they have spun off stuff they didn’t use before.
Helping some former employees start an essentially competing business seems to be a new thing, though.
Believing or not, it’s more a question of scale. JM said they would break even with only 50-100k devices! A small start-up like this works much more flexible and efficient than a dinosaur like Nokia, plus a huge portion of enthusiasm and motivation. Nokia needs million ranges of sales to make a device interesting. JM does not need to replace Symbian, they simply create something new. With this they will serve a niche market first. If only 30-50% of current N9 and N900 owners buy the first JM phone, this must be a success story! Not sure about “the big game” later on. But being close to the open source community and having an open ear for their customer’s wishes should make this enterprise successful in this special market segment. Maybe it’s not good to have a limitless growth as a primary target. JM can be successful as a speciality manufacturer for open source enthusiasts.
That 100000 could well be enough. If they get to keep lets say 100e a device, that would already make 10mil.
How many N900s were sold? If the first one is more geek-like device, there would be good potential among old N900 owners.
Do remember the BoM. Would they get an order that small cheap enough?
Hard to say. Ofcourse more high end might be tricky, lower end maybe no so bad. What do you think are the patch sizes for the odd chinese manufacturers?
With good connections and obviously good reputation could allow them to have strategic partnership with a manufacturer for the first patch of products.m Or there is some manufacturer there as an investor. If the first device would be close enough to some reference platform they could fit their order to similar other orders.
We’ll know more when the partners are revealed, if they are.
Not sure what is going on, this was mostly out of my radar, Kudos for that.
But it can be many things specially a contingency plan a plan Z if everything goes bust as I expect it will. A nokia spin off that can pick up the smart phone pieces of a soon to be declared dead phone terminals NOKIA..
Not sure what is going on so pure speculation…
It seemed to be out of everyone’s radar, mine included.
Sometimes the world still throws curveballs.
If nothing else, all those MeeGo fans without a home now have something to look forward to.
Ok, so it looks like one way for Nokia to persuade non-core people (Meego team) to leave the company and thereby downsize the work force.
Nothing more than that I think.
So the MeeGo team transferred to Jolla?
Jay is a Jolla paid poster! LOL, kidding!
It is nice that the old nokians reagroup separated from elop
Janne , I’ve never thought that Elop was doing all this by himself ! The board did hire him after all and , as u pointed out , the chairmen have publicly supported him . That doesn’t unfortunately , make Nokia’s present course any less boneheaded; they have a long history of such things ( N97?!? Hello ??? )
Just to be , this Jolla Mobile is a nice gesture , kudos to Nokia for that , but how much of this is Elop ? There have been indications in the past of a strong anti WP ( and pro Symbian / Meego ( and Meltemi )) faction within Nokia . Interesting that the leaders at least r now gone …
And ,again , to be clear , Elop being CEO means that he’s responsible for what happens , good or bad . Since he took over , shares have dropped 80% ,sales have dropped 60% .This isn’t the mark of a good CEO . And the board is supporting him because to do otherwise would be an admission of guilt …
I think the WP decision was necessary, but betting the farm on an unproven OS is lunacy, unless u have a viable contingency plan . And Elop publicly killed the ones Nokia had ( e.g. Symbian , Meego and Meltemi )
This is where I take issue with Elop ( and the board ) .Elop deliberately sank these OSes because he correctly perceived them as threats to WP .The trouble here is that if ur company is in deep trouble u don’t kill proven moneymakers . And yes , desire its DOA status , Symbian still accounts for 80% of Nokia smartphone sales . And for Meego , look at the N9 …
Nor do I see a contingency plan here , unless Nokia either has one they haven’t revealed or this JM thing is it .To make matters worse , I really don’t see WP as being more than moderately successful, Nokia needs a Plan B !
I am very pleased to see this Jolla Mobile ! My next phone may well be JM !:D
there might be some hidden clause some where for Nokia’s beneffit…i won”t be surprised if it becomes the next android story very interesting indeed.
For sure in these Bridge-project-generated companies’ agreements, there are notices that, for example, in case of an acquisition Nokia has the right of first refusal. And other things. Even when Nokia is being extremely complaisance with these companies, they are not giving everything away just for the fun of it.
They might, for example, own 19% of the shares of Jolla, and according to Finnish law, they don’t have to report it as a subsidiary, as the limit value is 20% for that. Anyway, I’m still very excited about the whole Jolla-thing. Can you imagine, even Tomi Ahonen is praising this case (as well as Pureview 808):
tomiahonen @tomiahonen
Any investors out there – Jolla @jollamobile – is THE opportunity you were looking for when you started to follow me. Look into it.
–
tomiahonen @tomiahonen
Oh, back to Jolla. Who is running it? They’re all recent MeeGo/Maemo/smartphones people at Nokia.. this is the HERO team. Seal Team 7
“They are not trying to be the new Nokia”, because they are the new nokia!
Nokia, after all, is a company with very diversified activities. Jolla may be a new “Nokia smartphones” division, but not a new Nokia
And they both know it very well.
For many Nokia fans, the thing they are pushing is the most interesting part of the “big old Nokia” and therefore one might say that for them, Jolla is the new Nokia
Someone should fund this Jolla Mobile to the nines to kick everyone’s ass with a bitchin’ single supersmartpcameramultimediaphone and buy up NOKIA to detoxify it from Windows Phone poison, then rehabilitate and reform it as the new NOKIA under Jolla Mobile.
What?
http://www.itviikko.fi/teknologia/2012/07/10/jollalla-ratkaisu-sovelluspulaan-mielenkiintoinen-vastaus/201233217/7
Google Translate.
Nokia gifts MeeGo patents to Jolla startup [Update: Nokia denies]
Looks like something got lost in translation. According to a statement given to SlashGear from Nokia’s Mark Durrant, the company has not given Jolla any patents. ”We’re proud of the support from our Bridge program to start-ups founded by former Nokia people,” Durrant told us, “but we have not gifted Nokia patents to any of them, including Jolla.”
The article I linked also does not claim patents went to Jolla. I never thought any did, either. Jolla will use open-source stuff, what they got from Nokia was support to start the business and form their strategy as well as freedom to prepare it while still working at Nokia. Any patents on MeeGo are too close to Nokia’s core business to gift away.
But I guess at some points during Nokia’s Bridge program or similar programs they have IPR has exchanged hands, as IT Viikko mentions – and Nokia does have a specific program for spinning off innovations it does not use, these have been widely publicized in Finland. It is probably separate from Nokia Bridge though.
It’s just a clarification. The patents could be only tangible benefit (although in the end few patents is pretty much worthless in defending you from patent trolling) and there seems to be much confusion about what the actual situation is. So now we know officially from Nokia they didn’t give them any patents at all.