Jolla’s Jussi Hurmola speaks to IBTimes
Here’s a fresh new interview dated today with Jussi Hurmola, CEO of Jolla. All eyes are on the company at the moment wondering how they will take Nokia’s MeeGo further with Jolla.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/365808/20120723/jussi-hurmola-interview-meego-jolla-mobile-ceo.htm
Is Nokia one of the shareholders at Jolla?
Our shareholders are all private persons at the moment from international backgrounds and Finnish backgrounds and this is the first step we wanted to [take] because we knew that there would be many interesting changes in Jolla that we wanted to retain control of the company. That’s why we are going with private investors in the first place.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/365808/20120723/jussi-hurmola-interview-meego-jolla-mobile-ceo.htm
- Jolla – it’s MeeGo with Jolla UI
- Major elements to be maintained (Note MeeGo =/= MeeGo Harmattan)
- Multitasking will be maintained but UI will be very different to N9 swipe.
- Multitasking seems to be quite an important part
We want to fully take the multitasking and using the device and the UI itself for the function of information rather than just going into applications and closing. So we want to change the paradigm there.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/365808/20120723/jussi-hurmola-interview-meego-jolla-mobile-ceo.htm
- Android/iOS – nice UIs but Jolla wants to bring something new. Something different from just opening/closing apps.
- Can’t reveal yet whether they’re using Intel or ARM.
- In talks with retailers/channels so they’ll be ready before they show us the phone.
- Recognises the importance of apps and ecosystem in order to be a ‘serious smartphone’
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Hi Jay, I just posted this to another Jolla article of yours (the Forbes one), but I’ll put it here as well, as I think it fits to this topic quite well:
Jussi Hurmola’s Interview in Finnish Kauppalehti:
“It is going to look elegant. It is for people who want to stand out of the crowd. But nobody is going to be marginalized, we want to make a phone that is easy to approach: Humane but powerful”
“This is certainly not going to be a complex phone only for the geeks. It allows you to do things, but it is also user-friendly and fun.”
“The user interface is going to be the main differentiating factor. If you think about Android, for example, and go see them in a store, you’ll notice that there are 20 different manufacturers but they all look the same. Great UI, but those have been on the markets 5-7 years already.”
“The great thing about Meego is the true multitasking. It means that all the possible information is available all the time. Therefore you don’t have to waste time in transferring the information from one place to another.”
Something else also:
Jollas purpose is to grow to a corporation with 100 employees until the end of this year. He says, that a small company can compete with the big ones, like Apple and Samsung, because they don’t have to create everything from the scratch.
“Meego is already here. We have the technology, operating environment, and the support.”
He also mentions, that they are still actively figuring out, if it would be possible to manufacture Jolla phones in Finland (maybe in Salo?, my speculation). He says it is very hard, because almost every producer is in Asia nowadays.
http://www.kauppalehti.fi/5/i/yritykset/yritysuutiset/uutinen.jsp?oid=201207219057&ref=
Great stuff, thanks Muerte.
Looking forward to this with interest!
“This is certainly not going to be a complex phone only for the geeks. It allows you to do things, but it is also user-friendly and fun.” By “fun” I hope JM’s tweaked MeeGo os will run android apps.
["Jolla – it’s MeeGo with Jolla UI"]
It’s “MeR*” with a Jolla UI (possibly heavily tweaked Nemo)…
They only refer to it as MeeGo because it’s a fairly well-known name out there.
God I hope they don’t continue to use that tainted (& frankly shit-house) name.
Jolla or “anything but” MeeGo would be better IMO….
I’m afraid they’re inadvertently locking themselves into that name though.
By constantly referring to their work as “MeeGo”.
*MeR started from MeeGoCE (there was MeR for Maemo before that, but it’s totally diff) but it’s moved on “lots” since then
I agree they probably want to evoke N9 continuity with that name. MeeGo is fairly commonly known in markets where the N9 was marketed.
Go Jolla! I’m beginning to hate Nokia because of its drama and stupid Elop is its CEO.
@jake
Look at the bright side: maybe something of the old Nokia survive the madness. Go Jolla!
@jake
Look at the bright side: maybe something of the old Nokia will survive the madness. Go Jolla!
I love how they seem to understand that N9 was universally acclaimed for it’s UI, not because it had MeeGo per se.
It’s going to be tough to create something as great as Swipe UI, I hope they succeed.
Agreed. N9 was also acclaimed for its hardware design, so it will be interesting to see what it will mean to “look elegant”. I think it is important and good that they understand that point as well.
The end-results, obviously, will be the determining factor, but I too am liking the stuff I hear from these guys.
I’m not expecting hw design to be @Nokia’s standards, not this early in the game.
But so long as it’s not straight-up broken, I will be happy…
They’re talking things up, as one would expect, but I’m not lapping it all up.
These guys created the Swipe UI also, so I’m positive that it will be something great in their own phones as well.
Agreed, that maybe they used their “master idea” with Swipe UI, because they wanted the N9 and MeeGo to be as good as possible.
I think that if someone understands the good things in N9, it is these guys working for Jolla
Very interesting to see their approach this time, as they are repeatedly stating that they want to get rid of the “opening and closing the apps” activity.
As they say, “we want to change the paradigm there.”
Elop should give Swipe UI to Jolla! It would be a sign of goodwill to the MeeGo staff that Elop has sacked. Swipe UI is closely related to MeeGo. Nokia seems to not use Swipe UI on shitty Windows Phone anyway. This just proves how evil Elop is!
They’ll come up with something that takes many cues from SwipeUX.
Zero need to have it “gifted” to them, & nor should Nokia have to do that.
That’s silly and makes zero sense….
Many of the same people involved in devising SwipeUX are working on Jolla’s new UI.
Claiming prior art for sw usability is a very tricky thing to so, definitely in most parts of the world.
They’ve hinted OFTEN that it’ll be similar in many respects, but that they’ll bring their own new elements too.
All they need is swipe gesture. It is really good, best one for that purpose (exiting program etc) on the market, but events, app-icons and running programs screens can be done better. Well, at least events is not so handy anymore when you have tweets, facebook event and many rss-feeds listed. Some sorting/groupping at least could be handy.
And option to reply directly.
In addition they should copy the idea of people hub from WP as well as the in-app horizontal scrolling w/o the need to press back button. The layout simplicity of Swipe would be also good in my opinion. Just stay away from the ineffective use of space and visual mess of WP. The transitions are nice in WP, but something less is well enough.
they should just let Peter Skillman to do some free-of-charge consulting since he does not seem to have anything to do at Nokia
Very curious about the something different about closing and opening apps. Already saving up for the device. I like how Mr. Hurmola answers the questions. He seems to know the current situation of the launching of the phone and is very careful with his statements. Leaves us wanting to know more about the device.
I wonder, what they mean by the idea of not having to open and close apps? Are these apps somehow preloaded into memory at startup, so they are always “open” and accessible instantly? I guess they would need a shitload of RAM… But interesting times, indeed.
Hmmm… Makes me re-think about the “Nokia AIR” video from 2010 on Youtube. It shows the apps staying in cloud and not on device. So everything you access it, it shows actual updates as it happens.
In my mind that would increase the complexity to create the device and services. I dont think that a small start-up would begin with fully cloud dependent applications. One should remember that fast enough connection isnt always available and in some big markets the data consumption could be an issue. Id expect some problems with battery usage as well.
RAM is cheap today. and RAM have no issue flash memory have: limited number of reads/writes
Please take the deck of cards from webOS!
Best multitasking ever!
+1000
Regards,
Palm Pre 2 owner (hopefully soon to be replaced by Jolla phone)
I was planning to buy a new symbian phone. But i think i shud wait.
“Different UI , other than opening and closing apps”. I think they’ll be bringing something like we saw in nokia air promos.
And on a different note,
maybe this a part of nokia’s plan B.
“maybe this a part of nokia’s plan B.”
As has been analysed/explained “countless” times now, that ship has well & truly sailed.
While I agree it is very doubtful Jolla could or would ever be Nokia’s plan B, I don’t think it is completely impossible that something like that (with Jolla or someone else) might happen. I know a lot of people feel that if Nokia fails with Windows Phone 8, they it will be kaput without any chance of restarting something new. I think that is again a bit black and white.
What if Windows Phone 8 is a mediocre success? What if Nokia’s Asha touch is a mediocre success? What if Nokia’s business stabilises, but then remains at a level that doesn’t satisfy Nokia’s growth targets or whatever parameters their Microsoft deal has. What if Lumia is good enough to stay, but it is not good enough for what Nokia wants to grow to. Elop gets the boot (or leaves anyway if he was only a change-agent), a new CEO comes in to look at what Nokia could add to their stable.
In such a scenario, Nokia going looking for a third platform (either from internal portfolio or outside), to broaden their reach, does not sound too far-fetched. Heck, if Jolla puts significant efforts into the MeeGo core by themselves or with their partners, Nokia could pick that updated open source core, brush up Harmattan or Future Disruptions or whatever and have along-side Asha and Lumia a third, say, Venla line of phones. Or they could partner with/acquire Jolla or some similar player and get a head start.
Such a scenario might see Nokia having:
Asha – Series 40 – 50% of Nokia devices shipped
Lumia – Windows Phone 8 – 30% of Nokia devices shipped
Venla – SomeLinux – 20% of Noia devices shipped
Purely hypothetical of course and I don’t really think this will happen. If Windows Phone 8 succeeds, Nokia has no reason to do anything like this. If it fails badly, it is questionable if they have the power to do this. But if the reality lands somewhere in between, then maybe, just maybe.
One more point: In a recent YLE interview Nokia chairman Risto Siilasmaa said Nokia has a contigency plan, in case Windows Phone 8 does not catch on. I wonder what that contigency plan is.
I dont give a single penny to any Nokia’s plans B,C,D etc while Elop is CEO and BODs are from L’Oreal, XXX Oil etc
For what its worth, the new chairman (Siilasmaa) does come from a small-business, enterpreneurship background. Also, any “plan B” I’d expect to go into motion with the announcement of a new CEO.
However, I must stress the above is only speculation what might happen if Windows Phone 8 or 9 or whatever does not create the major success Nokia is hoping for, but instead remains somewhere in-between. Perhaps a good-enough business for Nokia, but not the comet they’d want.
Obviously it is clear Nokia would like to focus being successful on as limited as amount of platforms as possible. Their current strategy is trying to reap the benefits of that, whether or not it will is a big question mark. If they can’t be it the preferred way, adding a new platform to the mix sound possible at some point (along with adding a new CEO to the mix)
In longer term they should add another platform to their portfolio as dsmobile mentioned. They need to have an option for WP/MS to have more negotiation power. Otherwise there is no question, who will take the money from the ecosystem. It is questionable, if they can do it now, when they have thrown out a good deal of software competence.
Regarding plan B I believe it is exit from handset business: selling Lumia and Asha brands & IP, Meltemi code etc. That was something mr Tirri.
How do you define what’s mediocre performance?
Sounds nice in theory Janne, but I don’t see this ever happening personally.
Nokia has moved irrevocably away from being a co. that designs/builds OS’s & the sub-systems that tie into that.
They could move toward that again LT, but change is a very difficult thing, as we’ve all witnessed/experienced.
James:
Defining ediocre performance? It is not up to me to define it. I’m sure the board and a contract between Nokia and Microsoft have already defined it, though, on some level. Lumia does not need to fail, for it not to succeed either. What if it allows Nokia to reach, say, a distant third place and then they get stuck there. In that scenario it would make sense to look beyond, while still obviously keeping Lumia going too.
Unless, like jiipee speculates above, the plan is to turn Nokia into a services business mostly. But then, buying people like Scalado does not fit into that. I think they still have future ambitions in the handset business, beyond whatever they are now doing with Microsoft, and that leaves various doors open – assuming they can stabilize the business with Lumia and Asha touch first.
But no, I don’t think Nokia is about to adopt let alone buy Jolla anytime soon. And if Nokia does decide to go with some Linux OS at some point, it might be anything – not just Jolla.
The Jolla guys have said that they do not have exit strategy. If they do well (against odds), there will probably be more companies making an offer. Not only Nokia.
Btw. Siilasmaa has been active as an angel investor? Im not sure if it would be ok for him to invest in a competitor.
So how’s the ecosystem going to work? Will they make a version of the OS for tablets and computers? Of course not because as they said, they are a small company. Therefore this Jolla thingy will fail because you need an ecosystem to have success. The future is going to be apps that work in all your devices (Phone, Tablet, Computer). If you only have a good phone you are doomed because devellopers will not see you with the same eyes that they see other companies who have a good and strong ecosystem.
IMHO, your argument is invalid. And I think that Jolla will show you why, in the near future. As they have mentioned, they have partners for the Ecosystem. Have you ever heard of openmobile’s ACL, for example?
http://openmobileww.com/blog/2012/06/01/acl-for-meego-update/
It is likely, that there will be some sort of native way of running apps from other platforms in their phones. Also, it wouldn’t surprise anybody, if the current N9 applications would run in Jolla’s phone from the beginning.
Even if ACL would at some point stop being total vapourware, I’m not really sure how it would help. You still wouldn’t have access to Google’s marketplace, so where would you get the apps?
Well, of course I don’t have an answer for you, but lets wait and see what Jolla has been cooking. Here is one quote from Jussi:
“That app store concept will be ready with the first product. We need to have an app store and an application ecosystem in order to make a serious smartphone. Partnering there is our biggest thing.”
“It would be a massive effort for Jolla to suddenly ramp up global app stores in many languages from scratch so that is another thing where we get speed by partnering. But we will reveal more when we come out with the phone itself.”
Could they partner with Nokia’s Store to allow developers use it to publish their N9 Qt apps for Jolla?
Obviously, that would still be a miniscule number of apps but at least they would have the app store infra available.
Ok, perhaps a pipedream. :p
Apps for the N9 is not part of their plans, they’ve already made that abundantly clear.
They will however keep large chunks of it open*, so that it’ll be relatively easy for the community to port Jolla apps to Harmattan.
*far more so than Harmattan, more akin to MeeGoCE.
Intel?
Does Intel have an app store and apps? Or you meant something different?
Intel’s MeeGo had an app store as well as a way to create app stores for other interested parties (carriers, device manufacturers, etc). That could be what they can use “out the box”.
I saw in an early jolla tweet with apps subject that they linked to http://apps.formeego.org
So it might not be a big partner but one with a solution in place.
Now remember that an app distribution system and it’s continent isn’t the same thing.
I think Jolla is partnering app development.
BB10 uses Qt/Qml so i guess we will se many of the same apps on Jolla and BB10.
There’s also cloudberrytec also started by ex Nokia meego people that will develop Qt/Qml apps.
http://www.cloudberrytec.com
And i think the apps for harmattan will be real easy to port (if porting is needed at all).
So i think i can see that there will be some sort of ecosystem, but i don’t know how big or how fast it will grow.
Interesting point on pooling efforts with RIM for app development…
Doesn’t sound realistic to me personally, the small subset of apps they could leverage from that alone won’t be enough.*
I think their plan to deal with the apps situation won’t be to rely on appsformeego/RIM/Intel ecosystems.
It has to be something much more substantial, they’ve hinted that they realise it’s a VERY important area.
Given that, a native compatibility layer for AOSP apps is more probable.
To do that of course would have to be some kind of agreement with Google/Amazon.
Your idea that it’s a multiple partnership thing with lots of (mainly) small parties is also another possibility.
*Unless they’re planning native compatibility framework for all BB10 apps.
Would RIM be willing to help with that, I suspect not, but you never know.
An agreement with Google/Amazon wouldn’t be imperative, but to work best I think some sort of agreement needs to be formed.
Someone has pointed out to the fact that all bandset.vendors need to pay MS royalties for Android and having similar to ACL might lead to that too.
Sure, it’s a real possibility, but by no means a given.
Another option (for something more substantial like android) is iOS apps.
There’s apparently already a BBX ACL for iOS app…
It’s apparently not made by RIM but by a third party, they may allow Jolla to use it or create another based on it.
Yeah, I was referring to Intel’s MeeGo app-store efforts. I have no ide about how far they got or what their current status is, but other than that they would seem to me a likely partner candidate.
I think the idea that they’d partner with Nokia on the store would sound a little too good to be true for us Nokia+Jolla fans.
But hey, you never know of course. I didn’t believe Nokia Bridge helped out Jolla either, until we heard it.
Partnering with Nokia with store infra ia quite doubtfull. As part of Nokia’s Feb 11 strategyannounvement was the shift to start to use MS infra. I bet that we will hear an announcement this year of Nokia’s own store to go on maintenance mode. Afterall the latest versions on Sym&MeeGo were qt based.
There were several Finnish companies workingon N9 apps, they could partner with those. Cloudberry already annouced their support.N9 apps need to be at least repackaged, but some work might be neededdue to Qt5.
My wish is some sort of own compatibility layer for Androidapps (at least to some Androidversion)and own store by Jolla, where they approve also Androidapps.
Cooperation with RIM on some level could be an option. Direct compatibility might be problematic due to UX differences. Is BB10 design buttonless?
If they get the app issue sorted, Jolla could well fly (sail) with good product.
Intel as a sole partner for apps would be a very weak option, if they did it’d be part of a mix.
But as the Intel approach was centred mostly around HTML5 is doesn’t seem like a natural fit.
Neither is AOSP but it’s also a far more successful system, so it’s worth the effort/resources.
A couple of more interesting quotes from Jussi:
“We are all the time building our ecosystem and we will also create a software store where consumers can buy applications for their phone,”
“When the smart phone hits the market, it must absolutely have large number of applications available. When we publish about the phone, we will also tell more about the availability of applications.”
“But one has to remember that Jolla’s main goal is not to create an open source phone. We aim to create a competitive smartphone almost everybody would want for themselves“
Saying that isn’t enough. No company says “We want to create a product that nobody will want to buy”.
Agreed, but there has been discussion / speculation around Jolla, if they are only aiming at break even or little more (annual sales 50 000 – 100 000 devices, according to interviews), but Jussi’s recent statements gives us another direction. They are all in. That bolding was meant to emphasize this point.
I agree.
Of course Jolla wouldn’t be saying “we aim to create a product that nobody wants”, but they could be saying “we are targeting the experienced smartphone/Linux users” instead of saying “almost everybody”.
So I do think this, with other quotes from Jolla (the one where they said being small was hard in the smartphone world so they aim to be big), are pointing at a mass-market direction.
Whether or not they’ll succeed is of course another thing.
That also indicates that they aim to have finalized/ready product on the market. If it was (at first) directed towards devs/enthusiast benchmark would be more on N900 and now it is more N9 legacy. It will results in fairly heated discussion on TMO for sure
Janne: what do you know Nokia meant with context aware UI few years ago. I remeber something like handset recognizing when you are at home or at work /car. It could then automatically adjust ev profile.
why do they need an access to Google marketplace. Why not just publish the very same apps in Jolla store? The best would be if they would contavt the devs after making sure the app in queation is of good quality and then ask, if the dev could share the package and give price and let Jolla to publish it.
Sure, they could do that, but how well might that work? Amazon has around 30k apps in its store, I wonder how much interest Jolla could gather?
Well, whatever they have planned, I hope it works out well for them.
that’s a good reference, I admid. Does Amazon approve more or less all apps or are they selective eg regarding links to Google services?
“Work in all devices” … What does that have to do with anything? I all ready have dropbox on my win7 pc and on my N9 and on my Samsungs Android smartphone, same with Spotify etc. If platform is strong enough, it will get all apps you need or good alternatives. No need to claim that w8 == w8 rt == wp8, which is bullshit and meaningles in every other way except distributing Metro.
“App that work in all your devices (Phone, Tablet, Computer)” is an utopia. App that is convenient to use on computer will not be convenient to use on tablet, app intended for tablet will be inconvenient to use on phone, and so on. You should develop separate apps for all these kind of devices. Of course, all these apps can be developed by one company and have the same name, but, nevertheless, it will be three different apps, especially in interface part. Word “ecosystem” usually means different thing, namely the same framework/SDK for all these kind of apps (to make developer’s life easier) – and it seems that there is such SDK, called Qt, and may be the same app store for all kind of apps.
Umm…or you could have a different UI for each form factor. UI is generally pretty quickly done. Having some code detecting the form factor isn’t a big deal either.
^^^ THIS!
An app doesn’t need to be exactly the same in all devices. It just have to adapt the user interface to each device.
Of course some apps are specific to some kind of devices and it doesn’t make sense to make them compatible with other form factors, but there are many that work just fine regardless of what kind of device you are using.
So it is smart to take advantage of an ecosystem like this instead of focusing in just one device.
And this is going to happen in the future. Windows 8 / Windowns Phone 8 are just the first steps in this direction, but m$ never hid the fact that this is their goal. And this is going to happen because when Windows 8 goes to the market, Windows Phone 8 will also start getting popular.
not with those ugly ass tiles
We will see in the next months if people like it or not when it comes in Windows 8. That’s what is going to bring Metro Style to people’s lifes.
In fact, Windows 8 currently have no ecosystem as well. While there is a number of Silverlight apps for WP7, most of them will need some adaptation to new screen resolutions. No native apps with Metro interface. While Metro may be usable with fingers (on phones & tablets) it’s hardly usable on desktop (many wasted screen space, too redundant) -> no reason to use the same interface (or even the same interface style) for all types of devices. Again. Plus there will be devices with different architectures (Intel & ARM) that will be binary incompatible -> more troubles for apps with native code. I’m not saying that these troubles are “stoppers”, just pointing out that “one app, all devices” principle will not work for Windows 8 as well.
It depends. While for some apps this may be enough, there are lots of apps that can’t be adopted so easily – image editors, office apps, hd games, and so on. You can, for example, compare Microsoft Office apps intended for desktop and for WP7 devices. Huge difference, isn’t it? Yes, they may internally share some codebase, related to file formats, etc, but their interface part is totally different, and there is still no reason to make “universal apps”. Apple, for example, have some sort of “ecosystem” with Cocoa framework that may be more or less “universally” used on iPad and iPhone (with different xibs & controllers for each device type), but Cocoa apps for Macs are totally different thing, there is no Cocoa apps that can be universally used on Mac, iPad and iPhone. Then, Android apps that can also be more or less “universally” used on phones and tablets, can’t run on desktop at all. The same story will be with Windows 8. The word “ecosystem” that means the same apps that run on desktop, tablet and phone is a nonsense. On the other hand, if “ecosystem” means the same framework/SDK for all device types (like Cocoa or Qt), it makes sense.
Just open API and apps store and thousands of current Symbian/Meego apps will be easily ported to Jolla’s Meego
even API is more or less known and we know that Qt will be supported there
Go Jolla go. Make it happen quick
I don’t think apps & ecosystems are really important :
- social network (fb, twitter, g+) : can be accessed via web
- navigation : google maps & nokia maps can be accessed via web
- banking : internet banking can be accessed via web
- e-mail : can be accessed via web
- instant messaging : hm, this one still needs apps, but usually every OS has YM & GT by default
IMO, if an OS already has default :
- good browser (or has opera mobile)
- good multitasking
- good multimedia viewer & player
- good office suite (& e-book reader)
- access to file system
it doesn’t really need apps (except games)
I think you’re correct.
Looking at the way things are for wp7, a lot of news apps and the lot are just gateways to web pages. And especially something like the wp facebook app is so rubbish and lacks so many features, that you are eventually going to end up using the mobile web page at some point.
So I think you can get away with the lack of a gazillion apps if the basics are there (email, calendar,messaging etc.) and the UI is well put together. Just like I love wp7, even though sometimes it feels far from a finished product.
‘navigation : google maps & nokia maps can be accessed via web’
think you never drive outside cities ie in place w/o Internet coverage
yea, offline navigation still needs app, hopefully jolla has it
That’s false! People don’t want to access all that stuff via a web browser (even if it is a good one) because the User Interface isn’t as good as the one of an app that was specifically created to a certain phone. Not to talk about how fast you can get your stuff done by using a dedicated app instead of a web browser.
Other thing, very important nowadays: Games. Are you going to play them in your web broweser? It sucks! Nobody wants that.
That thing that a phone needs no apps besides the “essential” ones is false. Maybe for some of you it is true because you really don’t need apps, but that doesn’t apply to the majority of the people out there. Just look at the fantastic numbers of iOS app store and you will see that most of the people don’t share your opinion.
tweet from jolla :
“@trismer Jolla OS is for own products but core is fully open source and can be used by any vendor.”
will nokia use it?
It would be funny if the Jolla device would intertwine with Nokia world, just saying. Haha