Nokia Sales “Exceeded Expectations” With 86.3 Million Total Units; 4.4 Million Lumias, 9.3 Million Ashas

| January 10, 2013 | 449 Replies

Nokia seem to be quite happy with their latest sales figures, seeing how they released some figures before their quarterly earning report. Nokia claims to have delivered “underlying profitability and that sales unit delivered better-than-expected results,

We are pleased that Q4 2012 was a solid quarter where we exceeded expectations and delivered underlying profitability in Devices & Services and record underlying profitability in Nokia Siemens Networks,” Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said today in a statement. “We focused on our priorities and as a result we sold a total of 14 million Asha smartphones and Lumia smartphones while managing our costs efficiently, and Nokia Siemens Networks delivered yet another very good quarter.

Nokia estimates the net sales in Devices & Services business to be 3.9 billion euros ($5.1 billion). I had my finger on 7 Million lumias for the quarter, so this is a bit of a letdown to me, but if this means that the next quarter won’t be in the red then I’m happy.

taking a look into the numbers the total sales of Asha devices were 9.3 Million which is quite impressive, while smartphone sales were 6.6 Million 4.4 of which were Lumias, leaving 2.2 Million for the what Symbian slaes occured besides the super popular Asha smartphones the 308 & 309 (I think the 311 as well?)

- Mobile Phones net sales of approximately EUR 2.5 billion, with total volumes of 79.6 million units of which 9.3 million units were Asha full touch smartphones.
- Smart Devices net sales of approximately EUR 1.2 billion, with total volumes of 6.6 million units of which 4.4 million units were Nokia Lumia smartphones.

However Nokia have forecast that their profits for next quarter (Q1 2013) will be negative 2% stating the cause as:

“seasonality and competitive environment are expected to have a negative impact on the first quarter 2013 underlying profitability for Devices & Services, compared to the fourth quarter 2012.”

The full quarterly earning is set to be released on January 24th; but this pretty much answers any questions we had.


Nokia’s Stocks seem to have jumped after this announcement gaining 17% in pre-market trades:




Category: Lumia, MeeGo, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.

Comments (449)

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  1. Maybe says:

    Congrats on 4.4M?
    or congrats on 9.3M?

    • Lumikola says:

      Maybe both, maybe just congrat 9,3M? It depends is 4,4M a result of low demand or short supply? Im pretty confident that it is the latter because Nokia has reduced its production cababilities lately and first gen Lumia sales were dissappointment so this could be just playing safe.

      • jiipee says:

        This was great news in general! Also NSN seems to have all time high profitability. Great work also by the CEO and Board Director at NSN.

        Nokia’s manufacturing capacity is partially on idle state at least when comparing the estimated production capacity they have in their smartphone facilities. I was a bit suprised that there were no mention of supply problems though. That should not be the reason.

      • Maybe says:

        Nokia shouldn’t get board on WP7 wagon in first place….
        Even the update of 7.8 can’t be release because of Microsoft…
        That’s what happened when we’re in handicapped situation…
        Nokia should only join WP8 along with belle and MeeGo…

        • Mark says:

          Your tears are like wine to me.

          Go back to Tomi’s site and stew with the rest of the “2.5 million” crew. You might feel better! :)

  2. Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

    Yes, it seems that the Lumia sales were not an incredible success but ‘only’ a success.

    Lumia sales grew over 400% compared to the last year and that makes it a success.

    It will be interesting to see how Tomi Ahonen will explain his massive failure on forecasting Lumia sales. His estimate was 2,5 million Lumia phones for Q4 2012.

    • Lumikola says:

      Mister “2,5 million Lumias” cant say anything rational about Nokia anymore, I have noticed. I used to read his blog but nowdays it seems to be just bashing Nokia.

      • Peter L says:

        That wasn’t the funny part in his prediction to me, it was the Symbian part that got me laughing out loud.

        He actually believed that Symbian sales would increase. Unbelievable.

        • Harangue says:

          Did he? How would that be possible, Symbian devices aren’t being manufactured anymore from what I’ve heard and there are no new devices being launched anymore, the last one was the 808.

          • Lumikola says:

            Yes, but there are still a lot of symbian devices in stores all around the world. When price is right some people will still buy them and at least 808 should still be in Nokias stock or so I have heard.

            • Lumikola says:

              And for example canbybar C5 (still listed in official page in Finland) have been popular phone still in 2012 and its a Symbian phone.

            • GordonH says:

              It is actual very hard to find Symbian devices in the market.
              Internal Nokia rumours of Elop and MS stabbing out symbian devices because they’re afraid of Symbian sales putting the “WP only” route pitch to shame.

              • Lumikola says:

                Elop can do as he wishes but there are still a lot of Symbian devices in different outsourced Nokia warehouses and they have still stock value and if something has stock value its also available.

                I saw C5 in finnish official Nokia page, in Germany there were even more C5, C6, E6 and E72 and in Italy even more symbian models.

              • Toomas says:

                I just looked at the webpage of EMT, Estonia’s largest carrier (mind that Estonia is only 80 km away from Nokia headquarter in Finland :-) ). They still list four Symbian devices: C5, 500, 603, 808. Except for the 808, they are within the same price range as the 610 and 710.

                Nokia’s WP8 devices are still not officially available in Estonia. Nokia’s website only lists 620 as “coming soon”, the rest are even not mentioned.

    • Harangue says:

      It’s a bit disappointing, I was expecting 6 million as being a solid number. But considering there were no new devices available to sell for half the quarter it is a decent number.

      The big question is how will Q1 2013 go? No holiday season sales, generally less sales and maybe even MWC to ruin the last month because of new devices announced.

      Whatever it will be, next quarter will have to be 6-9 million at least with 6 being ‘just hanging on’ and 9 million ‘starting to bear fruit’

      • Aliqudsi says:

        Don’t forget now you have the 620 and all the WP8 lumias were just launched in India

        • Anastasios-Antonios Toulkeridis says:

          exactly. The above results are for the relatively expensive 920 and 820 models. The 620 will sell better so expect even better results in the future. Heck, even the 920 is not available in countries like mine (Greece) yet

          • kues says:

            But on the other hand 620 sales could/will lead to lower sales of the 610, 510 and 710. Some 1 to 2 million 820/920 were probably sold in Q4/2012- considered the Smartphone ASP of 181€. In turn 2,4 to 3,4 million WP7 900, 800, 710, 610 and 510 were sold and that numbers are certainly going down in Q1 and die WP8 need to catch up on those.

      • zlutor says:


        In some previous post 10 mio was the number for Lumia sales…
        Anyway, good to see nay good news.

      • Peter L says:

        You expect them to double their sales for a traditionally weaker quarter to say starting to bear fruit? Whew, you don’t demand much, do you?

        I would say that from the same 4.4M WP8 sold + whatever WP7 sells.

        • Harangue says:

          Yes I do expect them to do that and I know it is expecting much but why not. So far, the 920 and 820 haven’t been available in many markets and even if they were they still weren’t.

          Q1 sees a big ramp up in availability of not only the 820 and 920 but also the 620 will come to market which should really push the numbers up. Couple that with a the cheap 510/505 combo and probably a new unannounced model and I don’t think that expecting 6 to 9 million units is insane.

          • Peter L says:

            6M? Maybe. Definitely possible if everything goes OK.

            9M? Pure fantasy.

            • Harangue says:

              I might need to explain on that; I don’t expect them to do it, I think they need to do that in order to make the whole WP campaign look credible.

              The numbers I wrote were from the perspective if what Nokia needs to please investors and justify the strategy.

              What I think they will sell, 5 to 7 million probably, with 7 being a stretch.

    • kues says:

      4,4 million Lumia a success when two years ago 5 million Symbian^3 (plus >20 million older Symbian) were “too few” as you wrote? Smart Devices net sales lower than Q2/2012 and only 0,4 million Lumia more sold than Q2/2012?
      Interesting perception of reality…

      Not to mention Series 40 sales numbers and revenue also going down (while ASP going up because of Asha Full Touch).

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

        Compared to Q4 2011.

        Symbian was already crashing in 2010 so this development was inevitable.

        One could say that Elop has done very good job by maintaining Symbian sales this well.

        Symbian was losing 5 points of market share in a quarter so there was only very little time left for Symbian.

        • Jani says:

          How can you say “Elop has done a good job maintaining Symbian sales this well” He practically killed the sales with his speech of burning platform. ????

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

            Not really.

            Symbian was losing market share so the downfall was inevitable. Remember that 25% of market share was lost in H2 2010. That’s even with the release of the Symbina^3 and N8. Even that didn’t really slow down the collapse of market shares.

            Nokia was able to get some unit sales because the market was growing but the reality is that market share was coming down.

            Symbian was going to die. There was really nothing that could have been done to save it.

            The problem is that Nokia should have been releasing something to replace Symbian in 2008 or even 2007. This is what we get when Nokia didn’t do that.

            • Deep Space bar says:

              ‘WAS’ is not the same ‘IS’ and ‘GOING’ means it’s on it’s way but that can changed ‘IF’ they wanted too

            • Sonny says:

              Lol all you bloody say is symbian was losing market share! Is that all you can come up with?

              Also I some of you are already saying we must look foreward to q1 2013 result. Wtf? Ive seen months and months people saying 2012 will be the make or break for nokia because thats when they will put their stamp. But now 4 effin million lumia’s is a bloody disgrace man geez!

              You people do know that apple sells over 20million iphones per quarter. The same with samsung geez samsung will probably sell over 10million gnote’s 2 this quarter. Dont even wana talk about the gs3.

              Lastly I dont think the current lumia’s can compete with next year’s standards. Look at sony’s xperia z 13mp fhd display plus waterproof! Look ar samsung bloody octa core’s, look at the droid dna etc. All of them are moving on too fhd displays and here nokia is stuck on hd display’s playing catch up again thanx to ms not supporting fhd

              Im sorry, I really want Nokia too succeed but I saw how people here defended symbian,meego and wp but its everytime the same with wp that next quarter will be make or break, then after that it will be the next quarter. I dont think that 4million is something to cheer about after all they had almost 8 lumia’s on the market and this in the holiday season

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

                Maybe yous should be happy with WP sales because that’s better compared to that Symbian was destined to get. Yes, it was losing market share and it was going to lose.

                Nokia was not able to compete against Apple in Q4 2010 when the Symbian^3 was released. That was just something they were not able to do. That pretty much made people to see how bad the situation was for Nokia. And yes, Nokia just had to give up soon after that. Because Symbian was destined to fail.

                It’s also possible that Symbian ruined Nokia’s reputation in high end. Maybe they just can’t make huge sales like Apple and Samsung?

                Back in the days people were defending Symbian so hard that even people at Nokia started to believe Symbian was great. Defending Symbian when it was really quite crappy, that was the worst thing people did to Nokia. Apple and Google just killed Nokia while the fans were defending Symbian.

                • Marc says:

                  “Apple and Google just killed Nokia while the fans were defending Symbian.”
                  You mean like some fans defending WP now?

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

                    No, there is nothing like that what was happening with Symbian.

                    In Finland it was possible to get in a fight if you said something bad about Symbian. Not every day and not too often, but people really hated someone telling what was wrong with it.

                • pathetic says:

                  man we really understand you ‘re a super nokia fan , but it does not have to blind you , like any company , you grow , you get to the top and there is a forced decline . symbian was failing is true, but to make a profit symbian abrupt stop as it happened , you’d just do what Elop did, “Symbian ” may have lasted about 5 years or longer to die , with more money coming in, more sales , that the 2 million that we see today , that’s called a natural decline. but this decline was forced , and injured nokia , Elop and investors thought WP would be successful, but no! symbian was good for easy money entry they killed themselves stopping their sole.
                  symbian had to die? Yes but slowly. symbian is outdated ? Yes.
                  nokia was profitable with symbian? Yes.
                  Elop fu*cked nokia ? yes
                  Nokia needs the money he could have if not killed symbian quickly? Yes
                  Microsoft and Elop were afraid of meego thats why they kill it? Yes!
                  meego was so bad to be killed? No!
                  meego could do better than Windows Phone? I do not know
                  Nokia did not have the money to keep meego? Yes, they had
                  Meego is better than Windows Phone? yeess !
                  was to much difference between the applications of each platform at the time of the change of strategy? Nooo!
                  Elop has to leave for dignity ? Yes! and stick his head in a hole like a avestrus
                  Nokia is on the verge of death? YES
                  Nokia needs a change ? obviously
                  nokia is worse than when change in strategy? Yes !
                  so why not change back? Anyone?
                  the great, awesome, holy, strategy of all-powerful Elop worked? comparing the day when Elop took over, to this day, is proven that, NOT

        • GordonH says:

          “One could say that Elop has done very good job by maintaining Symbian sales this well.” LOL
          High on mushrooms again. You are so funny.

          • Jesseri says:

            He is not using mushrooms, he just lives in in Elop distortion field.

          • stevebarker66 says:

            No, he’s right.

            It’s just that you and Jani fail to understand that Symbian device orders (placed at least one quarter before shipment) started falling before ‘Burning Platform’

            In addition, there had been channel stuffing (encouraging wholesalers to over-buy Symbian devices) in the months before, which led to an even more rapid drop in sales than would otherwise be the case.

            Considering how hugely successful Android has been (especially at the low end, where everyone expected Symbian to hold ground) and the steady acceptance of iPhone in certain markets (noticeably the influential US) I think its amazing Symbian has endured so long.

            There has been little development of Symbian of late, so whatever sales Nokia have held on to can be attributed to strong carrier relations, sound marketing and god management as much as the popularity of the OS itself.

            What I find most interesting is how Asha (especially the Touch variants) have effectively taken over from Symbian sales in some markets.

            You can’t attribute this to anyone else; credit can only go to Stephen Elop and the team he built.

            • jiipee says:

              “It’s just that you and Jani fail to understand that Symbian device orders (placed at least one quarter before shipment) started falling before ‘Burning Platform’”

              Can you explain me what happens in accounting, if sales channel cancels orders? Can you also tell what Nokia management and investor relations should do, if such drop is known and what they did only during Q2?

              “What I find most interesting is how Asha (especially the Touch variants) have effectively taken over from Symbian sales in some markets. You can’t attribute this to anyone else; credit can only go to Stephen Elop and the team he built.”
              That can be thanks to Elop. At least we should give him credit he didnt kill that business opportunity. Before giving full credit to Elop, one should know when full touch Ashas appeared on Nokia’s product pipeline.

              • stevebarker66 says:

                Did anyone cancel orders? Do you have any evidence of this?

                What probably happened was that orders for Symbian devices (already down before Feb 11th) were undoubtedly hastened by Elop’s ‘Burning Platform’ statement in the quarters following. It’d be crazy to deny any negative effect, but I do think this is often over-stated and miss-understood:

                But I’m guessing ‘Burning Platform’ was at least partly intentional to hasten attention over to Nokia’s new smartphone platform. Nokia have always had a lot of brand loyalty (look how many kept buying Nokias despite a horrific experience with the N97). My money says Nokia/Elop over-estimated that loyalty and expected more customers to go with them over to WP.

                Trouble was, there were highly credible alternatives by then; Android in particular mopped up many ex-Symbian users (let’s face it – there are many similarities between Android and Symbian) and iPhone (with its supreme ease-of-use and large, easy-to-read screen) had already started taking customers away from dumbphones

                Nokia hoped Symbian would endure at the low end, but Android stole their lunch with millions of cheap devices from China & South Korea – an no-on really expected that.

                We now know that WP7/7.5 was something of a ‘trial run’ and never received the marketing spend needed to make it a true success.

                Only now that WP8 has the connection with Windows 8, Surface, etc., do we see MS spending big money to push the platform.

                And again, I’m guessing, but I’ll bet MS said to Nokia: ‘look, this is going to be rough on you; We’re moving on to WP8 next year, so here’s a pile of cash to keep you going if you help us pave the road with WP7′

                • Marc says:

                  “We now know that WP7/7.5 was something of a ‘trial run’ and never received the marketing spend needed to make it a true success.”

                  What are you talking about? Lumias with WP7 had huge marketing (Nokia’s most expensive marketing campaign).

                  People didn’t follow Nokia to WP7, because of several reasons: it was basically a beautiful feature phone and not a real smartphone (couldn’t be a Symbian successor). People were waiting for better Symbian and Meego and when these OS’s were killed for the future of WP, Nokia fans became Microsoft haters. 2 years later you have a nice result.

                  • stevebarker66 says:

                    Nokia may have invested in marketing the 1st Gen Lumia devices, but Microsoft spent very little on promoting WP7/7.5 compared to what they’re now spending on pushing WP8.

                    But that’s understandable: MS have more at stake now as WP8, Windows 8 and Xbox are effectively aligning with each other now.

                    And Nokia still have huge brand loyalty. Most users (unlike us geeks) have little interest in the OS on their device; they buy devices because they feel solid, or have good signal strength,good battery life, or whatever.

                    Buyers will buy what they are offered in store. If the store has lost faith in a product (which was manifestly the case with Symbian, which inevitably led to frustration with users compared to the easier-to- use iOS or Android devices) they will complain to the wholesaler, or buy competitor products to offer.

                    WP’s success lies with getting the devices into stores and educating & motivating the sales staff & store owners. Adverts and marketing creates desire, but the oldest saying in Retail still rings true:

                    “You can’t sell from empty shelves”

                    All this talk of buyers eagerly awaiting a Symbian replacement fails to take into account the Nokia N900; a highly capable device with a superb OS that simply failed to sell, let alone become a replacement for Symbian.

                    The N9 fared better in some markets, but ultimately Stephen Elop was right: this was destined to become a war of ecosystems.

                • jiipee says:

                  “And again, I’m guessing, but I’ll bet MS said to Nokia: ‘look, this is going to be rough on you; We’re moving on to WP8 next year, so here’s a pile of cash to keep you going if you help us pave the road with WP7′”

                  I believe that too. Nokia was sadly the underdog and lost badly in the contract negotiations. They werent even finished before Elop killed his cash cow.

                  There are several points where I could ask the same thing “Do you have any evidence of this?” I dont have evidence on it. My friend working for Nokia corp finance hasnt given me data for some reason ;) What I was saying that if there were cancelations, there would have been effect. No-one has definite proof that Symbian tanked before Feb 11. And if it tanked, Nokia management broke the law.

        • kues says:

          You really have an interesting perception of reality- a bit like Mr. Ahonen, just the other way round. ;)
          But playing your market share game: Wow, WP gained at best 2% market share in one year. That way Nokia will reach it’s targeted 10% market share in just 4 to 5 years.

    • Ujwal Soni says:

      He tries sooooooooooo hard to get the term “Elop Effect” to stick..desperate fellow

  3. Ajit says:

    The real question is, how much money is Nokia making vs Microsoft? Remember that Nokia’s profits are shared with Microsoft now as Nokia is just a hardware partner with Microsoft.

    Anyways, I do like seeing Nokia selling more phones, but Nokia could have done this alone, it dint need an ailing Microsoft to come to its rescue.

    • Peter L says:

      Nokia pays a license fee for each WP device made, but it does not share their profits with MS.

      • Ajit says:

        Nokia is paying fee from the profits it makes, which it simply could have done without. Isnt it sharing profits indirectly? All that money could have been Nokia’s own if it had its own Meego OS on the phone…. That is why Nokia still couldnt make much profit even after selling the 4.4M Lumia phones and hence the -2% growth…

        • Peter L says:


          Currently the partnership deal Nokia and MS have pretty much negate the effect of license purchases. Nokia does buy them, but MS pays the money effectively back to support their transition to WP platform.

          MeeGo speculations are pointless and off topic here as there’s no way of knowing how successful that strategy would have been.

          • Ajit says:

            Meego is not a speculation.

            We know its results with the N9 and how even after getting sold out, Mr Microsoft aka Elop turned a blind eye towards it.

    • Pdexter says:

      What? Nokia doesn’t share its profits.

    • jiipee says:

      They are probably making huge losses still after the marketing campaign. They probably lost quite a lot of bargaining power since the volumes are still relatively low and so far Qualcomm is sole supplier for WP. That should hoefully change soon. It was estimated that the per device license is 15$. Currently they havent reached the quantities that are included in the minimum royalty payment on 1B$ per year, which nullifies the effect of platform support payment.
      Some sources claim that L800 was discounted heavier than eg 710 since it’s still manufactured primarily by Compal and they have minimum order levels for them.
      Its interesting to see, what the ASP is for Lumia’s / smart devices. Mobile phones should be up.

  4. xerxes2 says:

    That’s even worse Lumia sales than most expected. 4.4M in the last quarter of the year is nothing less than a HUGE disaster! And as Symbian sales will soon be gone and Asha destroyed by cheap Androids this will not end well for Nokia. I’d expect that the board will soon give Elop the boot and switch to Sailfish on high-end and Android on low-end. That’s the only thing that makes sense right now, than to continue to ride on the WP train wreck

    • keizka says:

      Just to note that Ashas seemed to have no hope in the first place against cheap androids, yet there they are. the cheapest androids around are quite lackluster in every aspect, after all…

      4,4m is way too low. Wonder how much HTC sold then?

    • Harangue says:

      Eventhough I do feel that the numbers are a bit of a let down, lets break it down; only half of the quarter could benefit from new devices being sold and in limited markets at even more limited availability.

      This has put pressure on the actual sales in 2 ways:
      1. Old Lumia’s sold less because many were waiting for the new models to arrive.
      2. What you don’t have you can’t sell, the poor stock was a costly mistake by Nokia or maybe due to 3rd parties. Nevertheless it did damage to potential sales.

      Now, low-end Androids were supposed to eat the Asha’s years ago and it didn’t happen. It might happen in the near future but not at a breakneck speed.

      On to the last part about the switch. Do you realize how much money and time that would cost? Not to forget about the impact it would have on the trust in Nokia? It would be yet another switch in just a few years. Doing it as an extra would be sensible if the Lumia’s won’t grow next quarter. But a full on switch? That would be insane and highly costly both financially wise and non-financially.

      • kues says:

        The Series 40 numbers and revenue YoY are going down – so low end Androids are eating into that market share. The Ashas are the last defence line of Nokia…

        • dss says:

          Its only natural.. android grade hardware will become cheaper, which will push the asha aside.. the effect might have been prolonged with Symbian being pushed down where asha is now, but.. too late for that.

      • GordonH says:

        Wow…All of a sudden a lot of understanding for not as expected Lumia sales. What happened to logical understanding for Symbian sales?

        • Harangue says:

          Logical understanding for Symbian sales? In what way? You lost me there.

          I understand the less than expected sales, but I don’t think that Nokia did well, that point was at 6 million for me.

          • Just Visiting says:

            I expected 3 million due to them missing all of October for the WP8 launch, not to mention limited availability. I was already a ATT paygo customer, so no issues with me using ATT to use my new Lumia 900 with, but many were still unwilling to move to ATT for the L900 and L920, to this day.

    • nn says:

      Indeed. If they are happy with it and this is “exceeding expectations” then I wonder what their expectations and targets actually were? Less than 4M?

      This is nothing but utter disaster, yet again. However, I wouldn’t be so sure that Elop will be fired and strategy changed anytime soon. Especially if the top ranks are thinking such performance is good or even better than expected.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

        Asha phones were selling very well.

        The old school Nokia would have not sold Asha phones but waited for Meltemi. And there is nothing proving that it would be reany even now. It’s completely possible that Meltemi was still delayed.

        Now they managed to sell huge amounts of Asha phones and that makes Nokia lots of profit. Asha is a very good product line. Finally something that works, is balanced and delivers what is promised.

        Asha is a bit like the first iPhone but with low cost. This is something Nokia should have been doing for a long time.

        • nn says:

          Somehow I don’t see why would anybody want to delay Asha because of Meltemi, as they are completely different OSes for different phones. But I guess you are the expert on hypothetical decisions of previous Nokia’s managements.

          But sure it’s still funny to see how the remnants of the previous strategy are totally demolishing anything Elop was able to achieve with his WP strategy. Imagine where would Nokia be, if they had continued with Symbian/MeeGo/Qt where Asha naturally fit.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

            Nokia would be losing more money if they had continued with the old strategy.

            Symbian was losing market share and the supposed migration path was just some marketing talk. It was not possible to get old Symbian applications for MeeGo.

            • jiipee says:

              How does that correlate to your claim “The old school Nokia would have not sold Asha phones but waited for Meltemi.”?

              Old Nokia understood that change was needed and they fired OPK. How can you know what would have happened under new mgmt, who was not Elop?

      • Peter L says:

        Everything is relative, my dear nancy.

      • Mark says:


        You were bouncing around squeaking about Tomi’s numbers and now you have the cheek to call this a disaster!

        At least you’re consistent in your hypocrisy! :)

  5. keizka says:

    I’m rather interested in Smart Devices ASP right now.

  6. SLAYER says:

    Nokia’s stock shot 16% up in premarket trading.

    although I expected the lumias to do a bit better, but great news non the less.

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

      It seems that Elop has “destroyed” less and less from the market value. It will be interesting so see why old school Nokia fans will consider Elop as the bad guy if the share value will return to the level where it was before if strategy change.

      That’s while OPK crashed Nokia’s stock price when he was running Nokia.

  7. Epopéia says:

    As always, Ali forgets the N9. The 2.2 million smartphone sales weren’t ONLY SYMBIAN, there’s the N9 as well. Bias, bias, bias…

  8. keke11 says:

    Lumias would have done better if Nokia would have had enough components to make them more. That’s what Mr. Elop said.

  9. arts says:

    So it means they are back in black?

  10. Sam says:

    Where is Janne? 6 million?
    Villopottaja 8 mil?
    4.4 what a horrible no. first they were prediciting 6-8 mil and now they are singing victory songs even for 4.4 mil

    • RVM says:

      Well, 4.4 is dissapointing. I was hoping for 6kk (and secretely for more). Seems that Asha range saved Nokia this time.

    • Janne says:


      What about us? We were faster commenting on this than MNB or most of you guys, hence our early comments are of course in the previous thread:

      • jiipee says:

        You have promised to decide whether the strategy was good or not after Q4 results. Ill be waiting for your conclusion end January ;) I still stick with Spring 2013 before judgement.

        • Janne says:

          Obviously. You’ll get it. But I need the full Q4 data, not some legally mandated preview! :)

          Had WP8 Lumia been well available in Q4, I would now say the Lumia strategy has failed. It should have sold something closer to double digits to show healthy growth.

          But since it wasn’t, and we all know the availability was crap and limited to too few markets, I need the full set of Q4 information…

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

          I guess we have to wait a few years to see how this is going to work out.

          YoY sales were up. That’s nice.

          I think this wasn’t such a success unless we use some metrics the old school Nokia fans have been using in the past.

    • pathetic says:

      lol you made me laugh as you’re absolutely right where are they ? again, I have the right. I predict that sales would be between 2.5 and 4 million, I told these two, when announced truth these two specimens cry .
      Now comes the reality , in a period of high demand such as Christmas, only 4 million sold worldwide? . remember that here ( MNB ) in Shanghai said they only had sold 10% of the population in lumias wtf ? .
      These results prove that this strategy does not work fuc*king WP is a complete failure and change ! fuc*king bas*tards , fired and burned to the as*shole of Elop .
      MeeGo still has an opportunity

      • jiipee says:

        Meego has no opportunity at least in Nokia. They would need to start hiring people back once again and most of the compentent guys are happy at Intel or as entrepreneurs.

        Meego would have been a risky choise. Ecosystem factor could be an issue, but I dont believe it anymore. If Nokia had stayed with Meego, WP would have vanished already and MS would be pushing their products to multiple platforms. There would definitely be one of the Chinese OEMs joining and LG was already interested not to mention car and some tv manufacturers. Selling Qt to Digia could have been a good choise in any case to ensure that others would not consider it as a threat. Android compatibility layer would have been a must as well as pushing Qt on Android (kernel) quickly. Reduction of excess management would have been tricky thing as well. Lot of uncertainty, but even mild success would have brought better results than now and Nokia would still have their independency.

        WP can still fly, if the next wave of WPs finally deliver N95 level of innovation and MS gets it to run on other hw so that Nokia does not suffer due to lack of components. I believe that the lower high end can be a hit.

        • pathetic says:

          Yes, I understand what you say but see the facts , windows phone is not wanted by anyone 2 years on the market and still not caught the attention, rather than by some ” fans nokia ” rather new users because fans nokia went android with the new strategy , there were only few . Microsoft took years and years to develop WP8 and if you ask me , I do not see a change in WP8 and WP7 is the same, same problems, same laks of features and that’s the problem , I think to see WP9 is a year and a half or two or more!. Now, see what they are doing blackberry, Tizen, sailfish, one of these three (I’m not counting Ubuntu because it will be until 2014), are the future of smartphones , fresh air is needed because everything is saturated with the same, blackberry will be the third ecosystem , is a global company and has many fans , (Nokia lost that ( fans ) to betray his ideology WP is the very opposite of symbian.) no matter if ” meego ” was good or bad just was what people wanted , and people there to give him what he asks; and its proved that ” meego ” was well received and is a good operating system . Now after all this my point is if these new systems are the future ( in my opinion , I do not know what your point of view ) MeeGo is already on the market , is not new , has many chances yet even with two years in the market is not old , how weird is that? the strategy must nokia follow is android and continue with meego. maybe only get one a year or two , one high end , and other low mid range , not to spend so much on developing for multiple terminals is difficult but if you want you can nokia.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

            Actually 4,4 million WP phones is more than “not wanted by anyone”.

            It will be interesting so see if Nokia will be able to grow WP sales in Q1 when compared to YoY. Now they did get some nice 400% boost compared to Q4 2011.

      • Mark says:

        “I have the right. I predict that sales would be between 2.5 and 4 million”

        So you were woefully and utterly wrong then! :)

        Never mind, there’s always next time!

        Stock up 17% by the way.

    • Viipottaja says:

      I said I hoped for 6 million (not 8) based on a number pulled from my back pocket (to put it politely and thus based on nothing other than nothing) and thus, yes, I was somewhat disappointed by the number.

      And no victory songs but some progress, yes.

  11. Marc says:

    So, 2012 Q2 is about the same as 2012 Q4 for Lumias (4 and 4.4). Despite more models, new OS and holiday season plus growing market? No need for more comments…
    It seems, that 2013 Q1 will not be a lot better and that is a full quarter with India and Lumia 620.
    Question remains: for how long Microsoft will support this “adventure”.

    • Pdexter says:


      Nokia is making profit in Q4. That is the whole idea here.

      • Pdexter says:

        And this result does not include MS numbers as they are non-recurring items and can’t be included in a preminelary report.

      • kues says:

        I don’t see how the smartphone division could have made profits in Q4- the Featurephone division has with it’s ashas. And only non-IFRS profits of course…

    • Keith too says:

      You’re forgetting the WP8′s only started trickling out in November and had limited availablity for the rest of the quarter.

      • jiipee says:

        The devices were announced in September. Id like to know the reason for it. If it was only tactics against Iphone 5, I would understand it, since it clearly worked.

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

          This has been a tradition.

          Just think about it! Anyone remember when they announced N8.

          That was 6 months before they started selling it.

          • jiipee says:

            a tradition that was promised would be broken. N8 was badly delayed, so WP8 was only mildly delayed? Also N9 was delayed by 1-2 months.

            Sorry, you cannot catch me with those Symbian, old Nokia comments. New rule, new mode of operation, new promises – its now 2013.

            • Viipottaja says:

              They did at least in one interview (some time ago already, can’t remember who it was, some VP or the other I think :)) say that the announcement to release time would continue to vary (they may have even mentioned for tactical reasons as an example, can’t remember for sure).

              And IIRC they have inferred to the September announcement of 920 as indeed having been in part to ensure that 920 features in any comparison stories to the iP5 and SG III. And it worked – brilliant move if you ask me.

  12. hemedans says:

    did u guys realise this? 9.3m is only asha full touch it exclude asha qwerty and asha qwety+touch

  13. Mark says:

    Hmm… not great to be honest.

    Although there were 4.4 million Lumias sold I wonder how many were discounted WP7.5 handsets like the 800 as opposed to 820 and 920s?

    It is, however, also true that demand for the 920 couldn’t be satisfied due to a shortage of components so it’s not all doom and gloom.

    I stil expected, perhaps unreasonably, 5-6 million so it looks on the light side. Still, plenty of room for cautious optimism as the market bounce shows. :)

    • jiipee says:

      “satisfied due to a shortage of components so it’s not all doom and gloom.”

      If the component shortage could have been at least partially avoided by making sure that WP8 supports also alternative components, then its bad management. If its due to more general shortages, one can blame market conditions. Does anyone know, if other manufacturers have sourcing problems. I didnt pay any attention, what eg HTC has stated.

      • Janne says:

        Obviously the component side is a downside of Windows Phone, that you can blame Microsoft and by proxy Nokia and Elop for too, because they chose it. Of course, there are upsides as well, but that particular downside is clearly hurting them now.

        • jiipee says:

          I dont blame and I evaluate where the business is going and try to understand the reasons ;)

          The shortages have to be related to Qualcomm. Are there many other where parts where 920 and 820 share hardware since it seems that 820 availability is even more limited?

          Im yet to see real upsides regarding the smartphone division in relation to other options. The hype is there, but would it be any less with Android or Meego? Next wave of products, next wave of products ;) I want to finally see the results on Nokia being able to tweak WP.

  14. Lumikola says:

    How can anyone say that 4,4 million is too low when we dont even know how many were available? Huge markets were missing from Q4 numbers due to limited release and in at least some markets where new Lumias were released had supply shortages. If we just knew how many were manufactured comparing how many were sold, then we could draw conclusions.

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

      Actually the expectation was 2,5 million. Tomi Ahonen was forecasting this and the hordes of Elop bashing old school Nokia fans never questioned this estimate. So, Lumia sales were actually a great success compared to the expectations.

      • everlfr says:

        2.9 to be precise. but still way off as is 8 million figure

        • Janne says:

          Who predicted 8M? I’ve seen a lot of people toy with 5-6 million. I doubt many seriously expected 8 million with this crappy Lumia 920 availability. Personally I was lately thinking they’ll be lucky to sell more than in Q2, which they barely did.

          I don’t think 4.4 million is anything to praise, quite the contrary. A positive profit warning from Nokia, though, that is. It leaves a mixed message of course, so getting that full insight on Jan 24th is all the more important in deciphering it. The question is of course, is WP8 (for Nokia) catching on but just limited by availability, or is it not.

        • arts says:

          nononono, dont try to change the subject. its 2.9 million. ;)

      • Lumikola says:

        Mr. Nokia basher also believes that Mr. Elop is an evil spirit from a other dimension.

        • arts says:

          nah, just a trojan horse placed there by evil stockholders, out to destroy europeans, along side his loyal horde of paid posters.

      • jiipee says:

        Analyst concensus was 4-5 million Lumias all the time, so it hit the range. Ere…, maybe you should start reading believable sources and not spend your time reading Tomi all over again. Do you have a crush? I bet you follow his twitter storms as well ;)

        “Huge markets were missing from Q4 numbers due to limited release and in at least some markets where new..”, if there was missed demand, it does not bring money. Who has made the sales estimates – marketing, sales? – why is not logistics able to secure supply?

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:


          We are talking here in the MNB and here people hating Elop seem to be reading Tomi’s blog and accepting his forecasts as truth. So, it’s just because of that why 2,5 million was the correct forecast for most Elop haters here.

          I don’t read his messages that much in Twitter.

          You may remember how people have been praising Tomi and how they have been saying he was right all the time when forecasting Lumia.


          • jiipee says:

            Yes, Ive seen that happening. Still, there are lot of people who are critical towards Elop’s compentence and the strategy he perhaps pushed, who dont take Tomi so seriously. I do read his blogs and laugh with my business partner to his stuff. Unfortunately the texts have become boring since he uses 2 year old data and twists it to his needs. Then some who have the opposite view do exactly the same thing. I grant it that he was a lot more accurate in his predictions that some ‘more official’ analyst houses. (The Gartner Milanesi is a joke)

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

              Actually Milanesi saw how Symbian was going to collapse while Tomi was claiming that Nokia was winning with it.

              Actually Tomi’s blog has some real value. It’s an excellent tool for detecting old school Nokia fans and those who fail to understand what’s real and what’s not.


              • jiipee says:

                Which makes you? Disappointed old school Nokia fan, who still desperately reads Tomi’s blog to find the light ;)

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu says:

                  No, it’s not a mirror turning everyone into stone.

                  It’s just a tool to check who is one of those people. Anyone believing Tomi’s claims is one of those.

                  And yes, I’ve been profiting from that tool.

  15. paagen says:

    One of the main reasons why “only” 4.4 milj lumias were sold was that Nokia had delivery problems with Lumia 920, Steven Elop said at a press conference today.

    • Janne says:

      Obviously that’s the case, I doubt anyone doubted that. That said, the unfortunate downside of that is it deprives the Lumia WP8 range its chance to show that healthy growth it desperately needs.

      • pathetic says:

        and who is to blame? ELOP ! not done anything right since he came to Nokia , he had the great opportunity .
        I ask again, in Christmas time where demand is huge sell 4 million only WORLD WIDE, is good ? imagine without such high demand now how many will sell ? 2 million again? nokia is fuc*ked
        growth is subjective , the growth or decline is coupled with sales (money ) as well as market share , you do not see or are idiots ! if you sell large quantities , guess what will happen? obviously grow , otherwise you will have a decline obviously

      • jiipee says:

        Harmattan installed base could be close to WP8 ;)

        • Janne says:

          It might – and MeeGo might have worked too, you know.

          • jiipee says:

            If it had, the world could be a better place ;) (less Ballmer on Nokia events)

          • jiipee says:

            Impossible to say. Id like to know eg.:

            – what was really wrong with Intel relationship
            – who were interested in Meego
            – what was the state of Meego proper
            – What was the conclusion of having Qt on S40 (Ive heard from a friend that it was worked on and should have been possible especially with 4.8)
            – How mature was Meltemi (the friend above said that his current ex-nokia colleagues claimed Meltemi was already smooth and hw was ready)
            – Did Nokia test android compatibility layer
            – the rough impact of Feb’11 failure, how was cash-flow looking at that stage

        • StefanP says:

          I am quite sure about this. Given the circumstances, N9 was a success. MeeGo/Harmattan is still more mature than WP7/8, only lacking support.

  16. arts says:

    Lovely positive quater warning. would love to see where the sources come from, but:

    To those that want to see nokia die, not today. ;)

  17. everlfr says:

    I think the logical course of action for the futute is to dump the smartphone biz altogether and concentrate on the dumb and the not-so-smart phone (asha) biz from now on.

  18. Maybe says:

    Wonder why this sentence is not highlighted?

    “Total smartphone volumes of 15.9 million units composed of 9.3 million Asha full touch smartphones, 4.4 million Lumia smartphones and 2.2 million Symbian smartphones.”

  19. Lumikola says:

    I think 2,2 million in Symbian is not a surprise because they had huge stock just recently and its not scrapped yet. I also believe that some business partners can buy them for nominal price to their own employees or at least will buy before they are being scrapped. Ive seen this happen before.

    • Maybe says:

      Huge stock does not proportional to the number of smartphone sold…
      If you say so that’s mean we need to produce more than demand and then we can be happy with it?

      Which business partners are that dumb?

  20. swain says:

    Happy with 4.4 Million !!! That’s pathetic.
    Only an enemy can be happy seeing such a poor figure. Now I am pretty sure they can’t recover unless there is a change in leadership.

    • swain says:

      and 2.2 mil Symbian sales, after 2 years of restless attempt to kill it, can be considered as 2200000 kicks/slaps on the ugly face.

      • Maybe says:

        From those figures we can see that, Symbian can play along very well with Lumia(WP7&8) and Asha(S40)…

        • swain says:

          Surely it can(with a little care).

        • dss says:

          That has been pretty obvious the whole time. The “aggressive” killing of it makes no sense at all..

          • jiipee says:

            It does make sense: you have a courageous leader who wants to make bold decisions and then brings in consulting house, who have already succesfully helped in OS transition (WM -> WP7).

            • nn says:

              I wonder who was the one who achieved successful transition from WM to WP7? Not to mention that the hiring and strategy formulation had to happen in late 2010, when WP7 was barely starting.

      • Peter L says:

        2.2M of leftover stock, mostly cheap S60 phones. Grow up.

        • swain says:

          Look kid, the cheap S60/Belle are not cheaper than comparable androids and they offer far less UX than similarly priced androids. Still they contributed 2.2 Million to the otherwise poor sales figure.

    • jiipee says:

      Depends on the next wave of products next Spring. Its great that most of the BUs are showing positive figures. Too bad that the strategic areas: location and smartphones are unprofitable.

    • hary536 says:

      Not true, They already are recovering.
      I am pretty sure that the reason for this early announcement was strategic.
      Blackberry announcing BB10 soon. Nokia announcing positive WP news, raised market optimism on WP which is turn will attract more developers.

      • swain says:

        Usually Q4 is the best quarter of year to sell a lot of devices. It’s less likely that Q1-13 will be any better. Many hot devices are announced in last 2-3 days. Many other are already on their way to retailers. More are coming next month. In this scenario how can Nokia fight using 920/820 with last years specs.

      • jiipee says:

        they are legally bound to give positive/negative profit warning, if their latest guidance is not accurate anymore

  21. massy says:

    I just bought a nokia 810 sim free plus JBL speaker carging dock plus Samsung 32gb micro sd card. total cost £570. iphone5 in the bin now.

  22. everlfr says:

    not having too much hope for 620 in china market either if you know anything about how strong the low end local chinese android phones there are.

  23. BellGo says:

    4.4 Mil..

    Well that is really low, not that any one at all seems to notice.

    Seriously, how is that good or not horrible in any way?

    • everlfr says:

      moving goal post is their specialty if you ever noticed

    • Mark says:

      Stock price is up 20%.

      That’s why.

      • BellGo says:

        I know it is up. I am honestly wondering why.

      • pathetic says:

        That is subjective , if nokia has a bad quarter down if you have a good one will rise , everything has to do with sales (money ) , the only reason the price went up , is because in the last quarter sales were worse . that does not mean that sales are good today . silly

        • Mark says:

          Profit expectation is break even to +2% vs -6% as expectation.

          The turnaround plan is working, Asha is holding well against cheap Androids and WP is gaining traction.

          That’s why, silly! :)

  24. Francis says:

    My estimate in this blog is 3.5m to 4m WP. This 4.4m is not far from it.

    This is expected Lumia sale figure as everybody knew that 900 and 800 not many people want to buy due to upgrade issue. 920 and 820 just been released in Nov – Dec, hence low volume sale is been expected.

    Windows Phone OS is not yet mature, MS needs more time. The question is whether Nokia will able give more time to Microsoft, or do Nokia have such luxury time ?? Luckily Asha line is right choice at the moment, it may save Nokia in future if Microsoft WP eventually failed. Technically speaking WP8, which is different core from WP7, is new attempt from Microsoft to convince buyer to hard sell his Metro UI with better core programming.

    However, with many interesting and fresh phone OS coming in this year, I really doubt whether WP eventually will lost their momentum to attract better market share. Many users felt Nokia is ageing and outdated brand, they don’t even border to look at their product. Of course luckily Nokia still have some remaining hardcore fans such in this blog !!

  25. LoveformyN9 says:

    In Belgium they are dumping Lumia phones, because the 1st gen Lumia’s are outdated or because lack of interest for Nokia? #number of sold units does not tell the whole story, of equal importance is the profit margin/sold unit…

    • Janne says:

      WP8 transition has hurt WP 7.x device sales no doubt, plus the first Lumia generation clearly didn’t penetrate the market properly – offloading them at lower prices seems like a reasonable plan now. Nokia has been doing this in many countries, including Finland where it has met with rather big sales volume successes for Lumia 800, even topping operator top ten lists – great for a year-old, “obsoleted” phone model. Low price sells, grows the ecosystem.

      It doesn’t really say anything firm about the potential of WP8 though, just that the first Lumia generation never gained enough traction and is now an old product that requires discounts to move the remaining stock/production volume. The big question is, can WP8 with better availability do meaningfully better.

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