Nokia Sales “Exceeded Expectations” With 86.3 Million Total Units; 4.4 Million Lumias, 9.3 Million Ashas

| January 10, 2013 | 449 Replies

Nokia seem to be quite happy with their latest sales figures, seeing how they released some figures before their quarterly earning report. Nokia claims to have delivered “underlying profitability and that sales unit delivered better-than-expected results,

We are pleased that Q4 2012 was a solid quarter where we exceeded expectations and delivered underlying profitability in Devices & Services and record underlying profitability in Nokia Siemens Networks,” Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said today in a statement. “We focused on our priorities and as a result we sold a total of 14 million Asha smartphones and Lumia smartphones while managing our costs efficiently, and Nokia Siemens Networks delivered yet another very good quarter.

Nokia estimates the net sales in Devices & Services business to be 3.9 billion euros ($5.1 billion). I had my finger on 7 Million lumias for the quarter, so this is a bit of a letdown to me, but if this means that the next quarter won’t be in the red then I’m happy.

taking a look into the numbers the total sales of Asha devices were 9.3 Million which is quite impressive, while smartphone sales were 6.6 Million 4.4 of which were Lumias, leaving 2.2 Million for the what Symbian slaes occured besides the super popular Asha smartphones the 308 & 309 (I think the 311 as well?)

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- Mobile Phones net sales of approximately EUR 2.5 billion, with total volumes of 79.6 million units of which 9.3 million units were Asha full touch smartphones.
- Smart Devices net sales of approximately EUR 1.2 billion, with total volumes of 6.6 million units of which 4.4 million units were Nokia Lumia smartphones.

However Nokia have forecast that their profits for next quarter (Q1 2013) will be negative 2% stating the cause as:

“seasonality and competitive environment are expected to have a negative impact on the first quarter 2013 underlying profitability for Devices & Services, compared to the fourth quarter 2012.”

The full quarterly earning is set to be released on January 24th; but this pretty much answers any questions we had.

Edit:

Nokia’s Stocks seem to have jumped after this announcement gaining 17% in pre-market trades:

Via/Source

 

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Tags:

Category: Lumia, MeeGo, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Bloob

    Lumia sales pretty much in line with my original prediction, ie. pretty darn bad. I would have expected to see better results based on the total WP-estimations and Ballmer’s comments, but nope.

    While Q1 is a difficult quarter, Nokia better get those Lumias moving out at a better rate.

    Good job NSN and the S40 people though.

    • jiipee

      Excellent job from NSN. 15% profit is close to amazing on a market where the competition (excluding Ericsson) get government subsidies in the form of cheap loans and are able to compete with prices.

  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

    Yes, Asha was selling very well and Lumia had over 400% of growth YoY.

    It could have been better but this is nice.

    Corporations are probably buying most Symbian phones so Nokia has done good job with keeping up those sales.

    • dss

      Corporations buying Symbian ? Where do you live .. ?

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        Someone was buying those phones they sold in Q4 2012.

        It’s very hard to believe that too many people would be buying Symbian phones for private use. Some companies may buy Symbian phones just because they used to do that in the past.

        What is your guess about who was buying those Symbian phones?

        • Marc Aurel

          Camera enthusiasts are still buying the 808 and people in the emerging economies the 500 and 603, although the latter seems to be out of production now. There were also many 700 and 701 devices sold at firesale prices — just like WP 7.5 Lumias I might add — which must have found their buyers due to low prices.

        • mirco

          Maybe this is really the 808, the C5-00 and the E6 or E72. Just a guess but those phones certainly have their niche. The 808 has its camera (and mindshare of Symbian die hards), the C5 is one of the last maybe even THE last candybar smartphone and finally the E6/E72 also have a formfactor which has its fans.
          Well… on the other hand… 2M is quite a lot. Wasn’t there also a series of special Symbian phones for china, was it?

        • dss

          An educated consumer would buy a Symbian based device over a WP based device depending on their needs.

          Why would a corporation buy a bunch of dead phones ?

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            Maybe there really are that many people wanting to have unreliable and lagging Symbian phone.

            Or maybe there are enough people buying those for some another reason.

            After all, I got the 808 because of the native resolution. Never going to use it as a smartphone.

            The sales of 808 units? Well. Hard to believe they are selling too many of those.

            • AreOut

              you just keep trolling and trolling…have any pictures to share of your 808? I don’t believe you for a second that you possess it.

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Really?

                Now this is getting funny.

  • viktor von d.

    it’s important cause untill q3 they keprt falling,and falling and falling, further away from were they were at the end of 2010. in q3 2012 they stoped the folling, losses were diminished quarter after quarter since q1 2012. and now in q42012 they finally started to move up again even if it’s slow.

    i don’t understand the 4.4 million. i believed it would have been 6, with 4 mill wp8 and the rest wp7.
    also i don’t understand the warning for q1 2013 with 2% in the negative(and +/- 6% margin). why would they expect low sales, if they are finally able to ramp up production for the 920 and 820, plus there is the newcomer 520, plus more markets added, ending in some countries of exclusivity, china and india will pack the devices starting this quarter. if they don’t make it to 6-7 million this quarter it’s kinda bad for me.

    oh well, at least the drop stopped, the share price is going down,and depending on what they will show at mwc things will look even better i guess for the media and investors

    • nn

      I think the negative outlook for handsets unit simply follows from the fact that WP phones aren’t going to grow much, if at all, and that the mobile phones result is actually pretty bad. Selling 80M means year on year decline of 15 % from 94M (and if we would listen to wisdom of some and started count touch Ashas as smarpthones, then it would be 25 % crash). The mobile subunit continues to going down fast, and I don’t think Ashas can mask that for long. I would be surprised if they can keep increasing Asha touch sales even for the next four quarters.

      • Muhs

        actually, having a negative outlook and then show up with good news is better than positive outlook and then show up with bad results.
        that’s what happened with q4. negative outlook and good results and probably this will happen in q1

        • nn

          Except you can’t knowingly game the market and lie like that. The expectation that Q1 won’t be better than Q4 wouldn’t be something controversial even for non-imploding Nokia.

          • Viipottaja

            Well, a big part of the negative outlook for Q1 must also be the expectation that Symbian sales will continue to tank and possibly virtually stop in Q1. 2.2million was still 16% of the smartphones (including Ashas) they sold, and 33% if we exclude Ashas.

            As for the lying part: yes, they would be, but strictly technically speaking only if they were to exceed the upper end of their guidance range (“negative 2% plus minus 4%”). :)

            • nn

              Um no. If you think, based on available evidence, that the result will be positive 1 % you really can’t claim it will be -2 % and add ranges. You can hope for better results, but report what will happen as best you can.

              • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslík

                Apple did exactly this (just much worse) for many years and it was their winning strategy.

              • Capedonut

                It’s hard to make predictions, especially about the future.

              • Viipottaja

                I know, that I used the “strictly technically speaking” wording and the smiley :) at the end. :)

                Of course, if they would really already think they are more likely to hit zero or whatever other number they should provide guidance accordingly.

            • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslík

              Quarter after quarter after quarter Apple underestimated their results (intentionally IMHO). And investors ALWAYS rewarded it.

              Until recently…

              • nn

                How do you know they did it intentionally? Frankly, there are better and technically legal ways how to manipulate PR around earnings. See Welch and GE.

    • A-S-D

      Nokia sold 4.4 million Windows Phone devices. No more, no less. That includes all of them – Windows Phone 7 and 8. I would guess that this would equate to around 2.5 million WP8 and 1.9 million WP7, most of the WP7 being Lumia 610s and 800s and some Lumia 510s (not released everywhere yet), 710s and 900s. From this I would guess Nokia sold at least 500,000 Lumia phones in the US which is actually quite good from an ASP (average selling price) point of view.

      Similarly the 4.4 million is good from an ASP perspective which is most important for investors and board members while for fanboys its the amount sold. For fanboys this is a poor/below expectations result and an acceptable number would be 6-8 million, up to 10 million would be good and anything over that would be great/excellent.

      Nokia sold 6.6 million smartphones this quarter, down from 7.2 million last quarter however despite this sales (in money value) grew! Apple overtook Nokia’s sales in 2009/2010 not in the number of products but the huge amount of money they made off each. Higher profit margins are also an indication of sales of higher end products which is easier to translate into increased sales of the lower models in the coming quarters instead of trying to go the other way (being low-end model king and then try to sell high end models). Thus this is a good result.

      The reason why Elop may be expecting losses in the next quarter may have to do with a slow down in sales in the US and many western countries in Q1 where Nokia sells most of its high-end devices so profit margins will be lower so we may see a loss. I doubt it though and I think he’s trying to give bad news which he can then exceed in turn increasing share price.

      I think Nokia will see a small profit in the devices sector and whilst we may not see more than 10 million sales or anything like that, Nokia will definitely sell more than the 4.4 million it sold this quarter. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nokia almost doubled that number which is possible considering the release of the Lumia 620, wider release of the 510, 820 and 920 and actual availability of the 920. Anything less than 5 million will be worrying however if profit margins can be maintained, the board will be fine with it.

      Finally we need to consider that the new phones did not make it to the market until almost halfway through the quarter and the 920 suffered stock shortages so this is definitely a good result. However, there poor foresight from Elop and the board who should have ordered more components in the first place which could have quite possibly seen sales of 5 million or more (whilst still accounting for the component shortages which may have seen greater sales)and even greater profits thanks to these high end models.

      • migo

        Your guess is most likely wrong. The Lumia 710 is the best selling WP7 Lumia. Not any other model, so you already have WP7 distribution wrong, no reason to put stock in any of your other guesses.

        • joker

          Very good analysis. Adding one more thing: Lumia 920 has to make up the decline of WP7 devices. WP8 is the real start point. WP7 is just temp setup.

        • A-S-D

          Lumia 710 WAS the best selling. Sales are slowing down for it and the 800 and 610 have been outselling it.

          Only an idiot would pick and 1 small thing to try and bring down a whole argument.

          Regardless, I said they were guesses. Go and prove me wrong, it makes no difference other than us having solid statistics so we can stop speculating and know for sure. Those are MY guesses. If yours are different so be it.

        • Peter L

          710 _was_ the best selling Lumia if we consider the current device distribution in the Adduplex data, but 800 has already almost reached it due to it’s more aggressive pricing during recent months.

          710 is absolutely not the best selling Lumia currently.

    • dom

      Q4 is the best always because of Christmas. They expect bad sales because Q1 is always difficult. Most phones are sold Christmas time and there should be no production issues then!

  • ms.nokia

    now that’s a good Q4 result :)

    imagine the sales figures when all the lumia range are available in all markets and no supply issues, wow!

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

      Yes, and Tomi Ahonen was forecasting how Nokia will sell only 2,5 million Lumia phones in Q4 2012.

      This was a huge success compared to that forecast.

      • viktor von d.

        stop with that guy. he is just a douchebag. he is like that girlfriend you broke off with 5 years ago and she still scratches the paint on your car to this day.

        hey tomi you stoped working for nokia 7-6 years ago. let it go man.just get on with your life. i get it you like the attention from all the linux lovers and ant-ms talibans, but still, find a purpose with your life. you were complaining in one of your posts that people in the industry don’t take your advices seriously when you make your predictions. maybe take a break, do some soul searching, and improve what you are doing. maybe you will finally get a true job, and stop being just a ”consultant” with nothing better to do than to just piss on nokia. you can even take eldar with you

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Well.

          Eldar is actually better forecaster from those two. Eldar is also way more honest compared to Tomi Ahonen.

          I’m tempted to forget him, but unfortunately he is the cult leader for the old school Nokia religion and the feelings of this cult can be seen from the numbers he keeps posting.

          Here is a forecast from Tomi Ahonen. This was posted 24.12. so it’s pretty fresh.

          “Like I said, the Kantar numbers are very accurate in short-term forecasting smartphone OS platform performance for the current quarter. And these findings suggest total Nokia smartphone sales of 6.8 million units for Q4 which they also suggest, would split 4.3 million on Symbian (and MeeGo), and 2.5 million on all Lumia, old and new, on Windows Phone.”

      • Francis

        I don’t know how you get 2.5m, but this is what Tomi’s figure in November 2012:

        “Nokia Q4 smartphone sales are likely in the range of 4.8 million to 6.8 million this quarter, Q4 Christmas quarter of 2012. That would be roughly 31% of Symbian/MeeGo sales, 25% of old Lumia sales, and the remainder, 44% of new Lumia WP 8 sales. Nokia’s total smartphone market share is headed to something around 3% now, and the Lumia series, Windows Phone based Nokia smartphones would have around 2% market share.”

        If you don’t like Tomi, it is ok, but don’t “create” false figure for him and mislead us here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/letsholo Ofentse

    Ayooooba Nokia Ayoba, Ayoba Mr. Elop ayooooooba…
    The best is yet to come

  • dss

    4 mil. is good.. better than I thought, but still way short of where it should be to sustain this giant, despite all the cuts Elop made.

    Asha doing very well.. bravo!

    • jiipee

      4 million can be sufficient. Havent been following CES at all. If there has not been big releases, then 920/820… may continue selling Q1.

      • dss

        Bunch of androids.. the Xperia Z stands out.

        • jiipee

          Sounds good, had a look at gsmarena. Luckily for Nokia, Sony hasnt been the strongest competitor.

    • migo

      It’s not the number, but the growth that’s important. We can worry when YOY sales stagnate at a low total number of sales.

  • http://chriswwwright.wordpress.com Chris W

    I also expected sales of about 7m Lumia’s, but I suppose the WP8 devices were only available for two thirds of the quarter.
    Still, it’s the best quarter so far, and it is still fairly early days as a product.
    Well dome Mr Elop, it’s easy to criticize the decisions he made, but none of us know what would have happened had Nokia not gone WP.

    • dss

      You mean the best quarter post Microsoft.. yes… it is, but that isn’t saying much.

      Nokia used to sell 16 million + smartphones per quarter. When they get back to that number, or exceeded it, since WP is so much better than anything they had before it.. we can talk about how successful their new strategy is.

      And yes, I know that the market conditions were different, but at the time Symbian had to fight against its current rivals (Windows Mobile, RIM, Palm, etc.) just like Windows phone has to now..

      • migo

        Nokia used to sell 16mil per quarter in the absence of competition.

        • flava

          ^ This. Spot on.

  • zymo

    I don’t know why you are so happy about these numbers? Were are looking at the strongest Quarter of the year, where most of the devices are sold! If these were the numbers of Q1 or Q1 then I would be fine with that, BUT not with Q4. 4 Million Lumias sold in Q4 is a joke. A week ago people here were expecting 9-10 Million devices and now the same guys are thrilled about those numbers and saying it is a great success.
    Nokia’s WP “experiment” has failed. My prediction for Q1 2013 are 2,8 Million Lumia’s and even less in Q2 (in the anticipation of SGS4 and IP5s).

    • suabesh

      Though I agree with you on some part that the current numbers are below expectations, your future predictions are a joke. What makes you think that we will not see a successor to N920 by mid 2013 ?

      • zymo

        One single device won’t have a big impact on those quarter results, since were are not talking about an Iphone or a Galaxy S device. Just wait and you’ll see my prediction come true.

    • dss

      Apple sells more iPhone 5 in 10 days than Nokia does 6 different kinds of lumias @ different price points for 3 months…

      • mylumia

        Well, aapl is worth about 500billion, while nokia is only about 15 billion.

        • dss

          Oh.. good point.

      • Sam

        actually in a weekend

    • Hosh333

      That’s exactly the point an example of this:
      Samsung sold 15 million Galaxy S III smartphones an during the Q4. That’s a single device outselling a whole Nokias phone range.

      • viktor von d.

        wrong.since launch galaxy s3 sold aprox 30 million devices. those 15 million is the whole galaxy brand from low end to high end and only in one quarter.

        by the way there are 17 phones in the galaxy line-up most of them with full availablity everywhere.nokia only has 4-5 wphones that are still being made and half of them only became available in the second half of q4 and nly in 6 countries with low stocks.
        a little bit of perspective always helps

        • kues

          Only 15 million Galaxy units per quarter? What are the other 35 million smartphones Samsung sells per quarter then?

    • dr_zorg

      When Nokia sold 4-5 million S^3 devices in Q4 2010 (let me remind you all that S^3 was just debuted in 2010, and was by no means all of Symbian on the market), all these MSFT shills here kept saying that this was a “bad result”. Now in 2012 with similar numbers for ALL Lumia devices and they are praising it to the skies. What a joke.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        The growth for WP was over 400%. That’s nice.

        Just decide if 5 million of Symbian^3 devices was a great success or if it was not.

        The problem for Nokia was that Symbian was destined to fail because Symbian was losing market share for years.

        Maybe Symbian ruined Nokia’s reputation, who knows?

        • nn

          Well, at this point Lumias can’t keep up with market growth and are losing market share too, and that is if we generously skip Q3 as outlier. But I guess at least nominal sales are increasing, right?

        • xxx

          There were 4 mln sold s^3 devices (Nokia N8, C7, C6-01) in Q4 2010. If you add s60v5 and s60v3 then the result will be: 25 mln symbian smartphones in Q4 2010. Compare symbian sales in Q4 2010 and very low sales volume of WP in Q4 2012. Today smartphone market has is 2 times bigger than 2010.

          • dss

            Windows Phone will never reach those Symbian volumes, simply because it will never be able to control the market the way Symbian did. And.. this is one of those instances where you can use the word “never” pretty comfortably.

            Maybe one day combined sales from all the OEMs would reach the 25+ mil. mark.. but not just from Nokia.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              That’s possible.

              Unless the price of hardware goes down in the future and Nokia will be able to sell WP for under 100€.

              • jiipee

                with 15$ per device license it can be tough. If MS lowers the license, then its possible. The good thing is that WP7 is fluid even with more limited hw. They need to decrease the reliance to internet connection,which can be hard, if the live tiles are updated on MS servers. Cant remember how it went.

                Interesting to see the pricing for Firefox ZTE.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  The 15$ as a fixed price is probably only guessing.

                  Nokia will sell much more those when the hardware becomes really cheap. It may take some time.

                  • jiipee

                    It is quessing as far as I understood.

                    you can make your own estimation based on 1B$ annual minimum license fee divided by different total sales volumes. Then make your guess what was Nokia’s estimate.

                    Devices a year Avg license
                    10 000 000 100
                    15 000 000 67
                    20 000 000 50
                    25 000 000 40
                    30 000 000 33
                    35 000 000 29
                    40 000 000 25
                    45 000 000 22
                    50 000 000 20
                    55 000 000 18
                    60 000 000 17

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      In the past Microsoft has been selling some kind of volume licenses for Windows laptop manufacturers. If Nokia had one of those, they could make some nice low end phones.

                    • kues

                      Where does that “1B$ annual minimum license fee” you are sometimes referring to come from? Never read/heard about it. Is it or is it said to be part of the MS-Nokia treaty?

                      According to the 150 million Symbians Nokia estimated to sell after 11211, they must have estimated a minimum of 25 million devices per quarter after full ‘migration’ to Windows Phone. 25+25+25+25+20+15+10+5=150 make up for 8 quarters/2 years of the transition period estimated.

                    • Jiipee

                      @Ere. I dont follow MS that much except their business solutions. That would make sense. Have you seen any other OEM stating that they will release WP7 devices? Since elop himself has said that Nokia has found ways to optimize WP7 so that they can push WP7 to lower price points, it expect the wP7 license fees to drop heavily. If not, it does not sound like a true partnership.

                      @kues
                      eg. http://press.nokia.com/2012/07/19/nokia-corporation-q2-2012-interim-report/

                      Our agreement with Microsoft includes platform support payments from Microsoft to us as well as software royalty payments from us to Microsoft. In the second quarter 2012, we received a quarterly platform support payment of USD 250 million (approximately EUR 196 million). Under the terms of the agreement governing the platform support payments, the amount of each quarterly platform support payment is USD 250 million. We have a competitive software royalty structure, which includes annual minimum software royalty commitments. Minimum software royalty commitments are paid quarterly. Over the life of the agreement, both the platform support payments and the minimum software royalty commitments are expected to measure in the billions of US dollars. The total amount of the platform support payments is expected to slightly exceed the total amount of the minimum software royalty commitments. In accordance with the contract terms, the platform support payments and annual minimum software royalty commitment payments continue for a corresponding period of time.

                    • kues

                      Nokia clarified/extended the text from Q2 onwards- now I really understand the platform support payments and your remarks- thank you!

        • dss

          So they sold 2 mil. Symbian phones.. now they are hoping that they can convert those into Windows Phone sales, but so far… this is not happening. Most of the Symbian sales are going Android’s way… unfortunately for Nokia..

          For this whole thing to make sense, they need to be selling at least 10 million smartphones per quarter.. and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            Nokia seems to be counting Asha phones as smartphones so they are well over 10 million by now.

            On the other hand, the price of Asha phones is not too far from the price of low end Symbian phones.

            The ASP of Symbian phones should be well under 100€ by now so I guess the low end should cost something like 50€ to be competitive.

            • nn

              Actually, they are little bit schizophrenic about Ashas. In the traditional break down of devices unit into smart and mobile devices they are counting them into mobile (and thus are reporting 80M mobiles and 6.6M smart devices). However, they seem to introduce new category named “smartphones”, where to smart devices they add Ashas touch. Interestingly, corresponding category “dumbphones” amounting to mobile devices minus Ashas is missing.

              Almost looks like they want to simultaneously boost both smartphones and dumbphones by playing with numbers and words.

              • jiipee

                The whole smartphone, feature phone division is stupid. All that matters is price basket.

                Doesnt Asha’s do everything and more than the first Iphone did and it was called as smartphone.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  Asha does even something more a Symbian phone does.

                  It’s reliable.

                  • jiipee

                    Have you used one?

                • nn

                  IMO the differentiation is quite reasonable, especially now when it’s evident world is quickly moving from dumbphones to smartphones. And although some can argue Ashas are better than Symbian and thus better than WP, they are still same dead end as dumbphones. I even think they are harmful to Lumia cause, because when later Elop will try to move people from Asha UI/UX to WP, they will smash it over his head the same way Symbian users did.

                  If Nokia will be around long enough to witness falling sales of Ashas, we will quickly learn they aren’t smartphones after all, and shouldn’t be counted as such.

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                    It wasn’t that long ago when one guy working for Nokia was claiming that Nokia can’t be counting all Symbian phones as smartphones.

                    Really.

                    Asha may be a dead end but so was Symbian.

                    So, if Symbian can be counted as a smartphone, I suppose Asha phones can be.

                    • nn

                      Well, if we are now counting WP as smartphones, then necessarily we have to count all Symbian variants as smartphones. So that guy was certainly wrong, hope Elop fired him.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Well.

                      We have to count WP and Symbian phones as smartphones. I guess Nokia is counting Asha phones as smartphones so that’s how it is.

                    • nn

                      Well, as was demonstrated they simultaneously do and do not count Ashas as smartphones. So whatever variant you choose, don’t forget to use corresponding definition of dumbphones.

            • kues

              The Symbian ASP was about 150€ in Q3 and 120-125€ (depending on how many N9 were still shipped then) in Q2- increasing QoQ since Q1/2012. The 100€ mark is probably far away in Q4…

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Yes it was because Elop managed to stop the collapse of Symbian’s ASP.

                Without Elop Nokia would be selling millions of 50€ Symbian phones.

                • kues

                  Please tell me how Elop accieved this ‘miracle’ of stopping the collapse of Symbian ASP?

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                    Easy.

                    Just by asking a price that can cover the cost of manufacturing the phone.

                    • kues

                      Knew he had some secret super powers.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Yes, Symbian was no longer competitive against low end Android phones.

                      Nokia no longer sold too many low end Symbian phones because it was not possible to compete with Symbian.

                      Less low end sales and ASP stabilized.

                    • jiipee

                      “Yes, Symbian was no longer competitive against low end Android phones.”

                      There are more than 2 million evidences against that ;) Note, I dont believe Nokia could have continued with Symbian so you next old school Nokia fanboy reply does not apply. Neither does Tomi reference.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Over 2 million? Where?

        • MOOking

          lol you mean cause elop cut off supports for symbian……..no driving market down

        • A-S-D

          “Just decide if 5 million of Symbian^3 devices was a great success or if it was not.”

          Remember though Nokia was the market leader but now its coming from behind. In the appropriate context it was pretty good sales (not great or excellent) and the context is that none of the S^3 devices were available for the whole quarter and they weren’t available in all countries hence they were pretty good despite only being a fraction of overall Symbian sales and the market.

    • A-S-D

      “I don’t know why you are so happy about these numbers?”

      The 4.4 million is good from an ASP (average sale price) perspective which is most important for investors and board members while for fanboys its the amount sold. For fanboys this is a poor/below expectations result and an acceptable number would be 6-8 million, up to 10 million would be good and anything over that would be great/excellent. For the board and investors, Nokia’s making money. Also, it indicates sales of the higher end models, (920, 820, 822, 810) which can easily be translated to lower end over time due to increased brand value whilst Huawei and ZTE are seen as cheap thus their high-end models don’t sell very well outside Asia.

      “Nokia’s WP “experiment” has failed.”

      Not really. Q1 2013 is (and I’ve always said it was since Q4 2011 and Elop’s crap execution of the switch to WP and deliberate destruction of Symbian sales) the single final deciding factor and the board is concerned as much with profit margins as they are with numbers sold/marketshare so I think Elop will pass that test and Nokia will remain as is thanks to good higher end sales. Q4 was supposed to be an indication however stock shortages and a late release mean its not a great indicator. The profits margins look positive but the high end sales in Western countries could fall after this Christmas sales seen and therefore the devices division may not be profitable and viable and action may be needed. We simply do not know and won’t until Q1 results.

      “My prediction for Q1 2013 are 2,8 Million Lumia’s and even less in Q2 (in the anticipation of SGS4 and IP5s).”

      My prediction: you’re wrong. Q1 has seen the release of the 620, wider release of the 510, 820 and 920 and shortages of the 920 are now being addressed. I definitely cannot give numbers for Q2 but again, they’ll be more than the 2.8 million you give. Whilst I’m also hesitant to give Q1 numbers, I’m almost certain the marketshare will soar due to the low marketshare Nokia’s going to have in Q4 (I’m predicting 3% assuming 225 million are sold this quarter).

      Nokia sales will increase next quarter whilst ASP will go down. These are facts. The Lumia 620 will sell very well, as will the Lumia 510 and these two together will drag down the ASP (for Lumia, overall ASP may remain the same as lower Symbian sales continue to drop whilst the 808 still sells) whilst boosting overall sales. Lumia 820 will sell well in the markets it will be released in in Q1 and the 920 will be boosted by greater availability both in existing markets and new releases. I get the feeling we may see a new high-end phones for Verizon and T-Mobile released either in March or April so they may add to sales if released in March but it won’t be huge, simply helping to increase ASP. I may of course be wrong.

      Also, to those saying we’ll see a 920 successor by mid 2013, I wouldn’t count on it. It doesn’t make sense for Nokia to do that due to costs associated with developing new phones.

      • Viipottaja

        Great points. Here’s to hoping they have good supply of the 920T (as well as other models) for the Chinese market, given the Chinese new year shopping season coming up.

        I too would not necessarily expect an exact 920 successor (if there ever is such a thing as a direct successor) – what is more likely is are carrier exclusive variants and/or a somewhat differently positioned device (e.g. a hunch back PV3 model or a slimmer but less feature stacked model), thus allowing 920 sales to continue as well (possibly at a somewhat lower price point).

  • Oreg

    Like always, the numbers are low becouse of limited avaibility but they Exceeded Expectations.
    I mean that means they sold more than they expected but there was some avaibility problems they didn’t count with. If they do so they could sell more than they expected…Wait a minute!?

    It’s just funny now :S

  • jtanigawa

    I think a lot of the 2nd Gen Lumias being produced in the 4th quarter were held back to be used for releases in regions where it hasn’t been released ie; India.

  • Marc

    One more thing to think about: WHY Microsoft marketing Windows 8/RT so hard and forgetting WP8? Why does WP has problems syncing with Windows and XBOX services, why there are problems with Skype still?

    We are hearing about Windows Blue in summer. It will bring big changes to Windows family. But will WP survive the next big change (if its market continue to shrink)? Or, maybe, its fate is already decided (lack of push and integration with other OS’s from Microsoft)?

    This is only speculations, of course. But Microsoft’s stance is not looking like “going all in with WP” (like Nokia).

    • dss

      Even there is windows blue.. it will be an update to 8, not a new OS

      • Luisito

        Acording to some sites over there, Windows Blue is the codename for a project to convert Windows a one year OS release, and finaly merging Windows/Windows Phone/Windows RT into one OS… Big changes are ahead, and Nokia could be harmed

    • Viipottaja

      At least here in the US MS is marketing WP8 quite a bit (have seen a fair number of TV ads although don’t watch much, bus station ads, movie theater ads). There is a reasonable bit of marketing from AT&T on the 920 as well (much more than at least I saw on the 900).

  • Sefriol

    MONEY MONEY MONEY! Soon I have tripled my investments. Lumia sales were almost as I though. Was expecting little bit more than 5mil.

  • MOOking

    YEAAAAAAAAA BS….i’m seeing this on my work news feed….and i’m like…that’s not something to brag about ….

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  • MOOking

    if that fool didn’t kill symbian,and meego/Maemo5 there would of had soo much more in sales

  • http://www.facebook.com/letsholo Ofentse

    I told my friend who laghed that GS3 sold 30 and Lumia rages combined were less…I told him that Sammy is on a 3rd version of Galaxy S and that’s where Sammy was comfortable with it’s sales. I told him GS1 was an intro just like Lumia 800 and 900, GS2 that’s when Sammy gained confidence of the market and GS3 was to seriously sell and sell and sell…

    Soooooo Lumia’s 2nd gen is where GS2 was, plus with it came the doubts of ppl jumping over to it like they did not with 1st Gen Lumia. Sooooo Androids are still the most ReFerred Phones coz they’ve made a name of themeselves. Ppl still have doubts of WP in general coz of the same old bull shit “apps”… Anyway Q4 was good for Lumia, remember not everybody can afford it and that’s why Asha sold more.

    But anyway this is good news for starters, developers are eyeing on WP, Nokia is shaping up their production line, Nokia is slowly shaping up regardless of the “small sales”… It’s Not a disappointment coz we still have loyal iPhone and Android users who really will find it hard to just throw away their phones but some did and helped make that 4.4 mill…
    Ayoooba ;-)

  • dss

    No matter how you spin the numbers, this is far from “good news” for Nokia.. of course, its all relative, but considering their performance from not that long ago, this is pretty bad.

    I am not saying that Symbian/MeeGo/QT would have done better (even tho its hard to imagine it would have been any worse), but stil… Windows Phone is supposed to be saving Nokia, not the other way around, which is exactly what’s happening here.

    I wonder how many WP devices HTC and Samsung sold ? I bet you between both of them they didn’t even reach the 2 mil. mark.

    • Bloob

      Yeah, I can’t help but wonder, if a small MeeGo team would not have produced better results than this.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        How much MeeGo coders did Nokia have? Is 1000 enough? 2000?

        They kicked out the Meltemi team and there were over 700 people. Meltemi was 100% compatible with MeeGo.

        Most people were laid off in 2011.

        So it was not that small team.

        • jiipee

          I think something like 1300 was referreds somewhere including hw personnel. As always, Nokia had way too many developers and even more managers working on a project. My friends were cursing this already in 2005. You should also remember that after a software development project is ready maintenance and further development takes a lot less resources.

          If Jolla is able to release a device before Q4 with their limited resources, that would be a benchmark what Elop should have reached, if he was good in execution.

          You keep telling about the old Nokians and still Elop chose maybe the worst one to head mainly software development project. And then had to kick her out. You yourself quoted het brain farts some time ago. Well, maybe marketing position on selling servers is good background to head SW development. Or she spoke better english than the rest.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            It may be 1300. Maybe more, maybe less. What it was not? It was not a small team.

            Jolla. That’s interesting company. People thought they were going to release a phone in 2012 and now you are not the first one to say how may get it out in late 2013. The official release date was in summer 2013?

            Yes, she was not that good. Elop has failed on many matters but something he got right. He killed Symbian. After getting my 808 I understood that there was no hope for Symbian. It was doomed. Really.

            Speaking good English applies only to native Finns. I think I mentioned that earlier.

            • Bloob

              Never claimed it was a small team, rather that Nokia should/could have kept a small team, and possibly still do better than they are doing with Lumia.

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Yes, they should make best possible products with a team of few members. That would make the profits run!

  • xxx

    Toni Ahonen comment:
    Nokia smartphones shipped 6.6 million units in Q4, up only 5% from Q3 when it sold 6.2 million smartphones. This is down from 19.6 million one year ago when Lumia first launched and 28.8 million when Nokia sold only Symbian based smartphones.

    • dss

      Yes.. and that huge gap transferred over to Android, very few stayed along with Nokia for the Lumia range. I feel like most of those Lumia sales are new customers, not Symbian transferees..

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

      Nokia considers Asha phones as smartphones so it’s not that low.

      I guess that’s fair because they did consider Symbian phones as smartphones.

      However Tomi Ahonen really failed in forecasting Q4. He claimed that Nokia will be selling 2,5 million WP phones in Q4.

      • Marc

        “I guess that’s fair because they did consider Symbian phones as smartphones.”

        Symbian is more smartphone than WP is, even today :)

        On the other hand, if you choose WP for your high end smartphones, you can call a dumbphone “low end smartphone” (because functionality is similar) :)

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          You should remember that Symbian is 1st generation smartphone while Android, WP and iOS are 2nd generation smartphones. Modern smartphones.

          • dss

            Whatever that means.. my 808 is a better smartphone than my iPhone 5, and that is considered by many the best smartphone in the world, so.. there is a riddle for you.

            • Marc

              Sometimes, people are using double standards (like “modern smartphone” (what does it mean?) ) trying to cover limited functionality of OS (like first iOS and WP)

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                You can pick up the first iPhone with the latest iOS available for it and still get massive amounts of apps for it. You can still use the browser and it works pretty well.

                If you take a Nokia phone of the time, something like N95, it’s not so nice. No applications or very few of them and using the internet is not so nice.

                And still both of those are over 5 years old devices.

                Apple invented the modern smartphone. You can thank Steve Jobs for that one.

                Yes?

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              It depends.

              I have an 808 and it’s really not so good. I got it because of the native resolution.

              I want to have a reliable phone/smartphone and 808 is not that.

              However it’s nice if you like it. As a smartphone it would never be enough for me.

      • Weirdfisher

        did he mean 2.5 million WP8 phones?

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          No. All WP.

          Tomi Ahonen wrote:

          “Like I said, the Kantar numbers are very accurate in short-term forecasting smartphone OS platform performance for the current quarter. And these findings suggest total Nokia smartphone sales of 6.8 million units for Q4 which they also suggest, would split 4.3 million on Symbian (and MeeGo), and 2.5 million on all Lumia, old and new, on Windows Phone.”

          • Marc

            His predictions was actually very good before the end of December (6.8 mln.: 2/3 Lumia and 1/3 Symbian). Then he made corrections based on Kantar data. And here rise more questions about WP sales (more shipped than sold?)

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Yes, but he made corrections and that’s why he failed.

              I can be the world’s best forecaster if I can forget the wrong forecasts.

              Tomi Ahonen tries to be best by forgetting all those failures he made.

              • Marc

                Well, 6.8 mln prediction for Symbian and Lumia in Q4 is pretty close (6.6 in reality). And even his corrected Lumia sales are not too far from reality, comparing with his critiques predictions :)

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  Well.

                  His last forecast for WP was 2,5 million and the reality was 4,4 million so he failed miserably.

                  Yes?

                  • Marc

                    Yes, he missed (and admitted it himself), but his critiques missed even more :)
                    So, it’s not bad.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Well.

                      He is just a very bad forecaster.

                      This is very simple.

                    • Mark

                      He failed. Any fool can be wise after the event.

                      He was wrong. Deal with it.

                    • Noki

                      that’s the story here today, don’t mind that 4.4 is a joke of a number..
                      Tomi got his prediction wrong by a whooping 1.9 Million aka less than a rounding number error in the smartphone market.

          • Francis

            No, this what Tomi said in November 2012:

            “Nokia Q4 smartphone sales are likely in the range of 4.8 million to 6.8 million this quarter, Q4 Christmas quarter of 2012. That would be roughly 31% of Symbian/MeeGo sales, 25% of old Lumia sales, and the remainder, 44% of new Lumia WP 8 sales. Nokia’s total smartphone market share is headed to something around 3% now, and the Lumia series, Windows Phone based Nokia smartphones would have around 2% market share.”

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              And after that he said this in December 2012:

              “Like I said, the Kantar numbers are very accurate in short-term forecasting smartphone OS platform performance for the current quarter. And these findings suggest total Nokia smartphone sales of 6.8 million units for Q4 which they also suggest, would split 4.3 million on Symbian (and MeeGo), and 2.5 million on all Lumia, old and new, on Windows Phone.”

              Tomi really failed this time.

  • RVM

    I just googled for some Samsung results, and it appears that Nokia was once again the largest phone manufacturer in Q4 2012, since Samsung sold only around 65 million phones.

    • A-S-D

      I think those were only smartphones so I’m sure they’re still ahead overall but Nokia’s catching up and Q1 is a chance to take by its rightful position!

      • kues

        Nokia is catching up?
        Featurephone sales and revenue are down YoY, despite Asha Full Touch.
        Samsung sold around 55 million smartphones (and nearly 98 million mobile devices including smartphones) in Q3 according to Gartner. No reason why Q4 should see anything but higher smartphone sales for Samsung- btw: Q4/2011 was 34 million smartphones (92 million total mobile devices) for Samsung.

        Worst case Nokias total smartphone sales are lower than Samsungs smartphone sales increase from Q3 to Q4…

    • DJ

      Samsung is the largest phone manufacturer for 2012, first time Nokia is not first after 14 years.

      • RVM

        Exactly. I was talking about Q4 2012 though, not full 2012.

  • ftw

    4 M Lumias on Christmas season? PATHETIC

  • stylinred

    wow so Symbian is still selling like a beast, sigh elop you fool

    I wonder how Blackberry 10 is going to hurt Lumia in Q1 considering all carriers are adopting BB10 devices

    • viktor von d.

      it’s not going to since bb10 will be available from q2 and then they will only have one phone for starters and with limited availability at first

      q2-z10 , limited availability, few markets available
      q3- the qwerty phone , limited availability, few markets available / + z10 available pretty much everywhere
      q4-new phones to cover low end and another flagship, limited availability at launch and few markets
      q1 2014 – blackberry in full force everywhere with full range of products

      so nokia is safe in q1. no threat from blackberry. q2 however will be difficult if they don’t release anything new cause all the full hd 5 inch phones that were shown at ces and mwc will be available. plus the new galaxy s4

      • stylinred

        blackberry claimed availability wouldn’t be an issue

        but that’s interesting about q2 i thought it would be available in the next couple weeks

        • viktor von d.,

          it’s going to be launched in a couple of weeks. but it will take another few weeks till it will be carried by operators in the us and uk.it won’t be available everywhere at the same time. that’s why i’m saying q1 and even q2 will pose no issues for nokia from rim.
          the others however will rape nokia

          • capedonut

            yep, especially samsung and in some markets the nexus line

  • Dr.Smart

    Who gives a rat’s ass if Nokia sells 4.4 millions or 44 millions.
    Nokia is an OEM for crying out loud. Do you get excited by Samsung because it sells so much? No these are box movers.

    Real shame that Nokia is not the driving force in mobile computing anymore (regardless of sales).

    • Mark

      Dry your eyes!

      It’s OK, you expected Nokia to fail and sell only 2.5 million Lumias… and you were WRONG! LOL! :)

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        Yes. Tomi Ahonen, the supreme priest of the Nokia religion has foreseen how Nokia will sell only 2,5 million Lumia phones in Q3 2012.

        Now then this prophecy failed to became true, all they can do is to claim how this wasn’t a “real” forecast.

        So here is how Tomi does it. He makes a number of forecasts and selects the one that was best. The Nokia sheep just forget the failed forecasts and praise him as the best forecaster there is.

        Nokia has become a true religion.

        • Dr.Smart

          Whaaaat? Who said anything about Tomi Ahonen or 2.5 mill?

          Mark and Ere .. where the hell did these dumb and dumber one-two punch brothers barge in from remarking idiotic unrelated remarks?

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            Please follow the conversation.

            That’s how you can understand what people are talking about.

            Ignorance is not something you should brag about.

            • Dr.Smart

              But this is my thread to which you replied! Kapish??

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Please just try to see the big picture.

                The world is not black and white.

                • Dr.Smart

                  It’s like talking to a ..

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                    Just try to learn.

                    That how to get rid of ignorance.

          • Noki

            yeah tomi got is prediction numbers wrong by what is on the smart phone area a rounding error, that the big win today.
            Nokia still not able to push the 5 million Lumias barrier, with 8 repeat 8 lumias on the market is not worth mentioning.

            I gess the most important thing to look here is Tomi geting is numbers wrong by a whooping 1.9 Million wow yes 1.9 million aka the number of galaxies sold in an afternoon. pathetic

          • Oreg

            Best comment so far :) Thank you

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

      Well.

      Nokia was no longer any kind of driving force in the industry. Not after Apple invented the modern smartphone in 2007. That was the moment when Nokia started to collapse.

      It will be hard for some people to understand this, but unfortunately Steve Jobs was the man who pretty much killed Nokia with inventing the modern smartphone.

      • dss

        A modern smartphone..? They took a dumb phone, and made it very pretty and pleasant to use…

        Symbian 10.0 still holds its own against iOS 6 to this day…and since iOS is still catching up, it will continue to do so for the next 2 years, despite the lack of active development.

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Yes, Apple uses Unix core and the iPhone is reliable pleasant to use.

          Some people seem to be living in the past with Symbian. However, it’s not that bad. First we had the Amish people and now Symbian people.

          But wait! Symbian has all those half baked specs! Is must be great because it has so many half baked features.

          • Dr.Smart

            The only one half-baked is you sir!

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              I guess you own one of those magical Symbian phones never having any problems. It’s a shame Nokia never sold those in volumes.

              Symbian collapsed just because it had too many half baked features and it was quite unstable.

              • Noki

                And what is WP excuse for Not selling?
                We all know till nausea all the reasons Symbian “sucked” but is WP excuse???

                BTW I suspect another BS lie from microsoft on the 10 Million WP sold in Q4, with nokia representing around 70% of WP sales I don’t see how Microsoft can claim 10 Million.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  You were supposed to stop replying to me. Yes?

                  Are you ready to talk about the source for those claimed 1,75 million N9 phones sold in Q4 2011?

          • AlsoCan

            We may be the dumbest ever for liking Symbian, but all we ask is to survive.
            I have no interest in which of Symbian, WP, iOS, BB10 is beting the other but I have a problem with (very soon) not being able to buy what I like.

            iPhone was an amazing innovation, but it does not mean that everyone wants an iPhone or that every phone should copy the iPhone (I’m looking at you, WP). There is plenty room for other things and the more choice we (consumers) will have the happier we will be.

            • Noki

              Not in Nokia, in Nokia there can only be WP, no mater how deeply unprofitable it is.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Just buy something else. You can still buy Symbian phones if you want to get one. The 808 has a very good availability and it’s Symbian. There will be alternatives for iOS and WP. But don’t blame iOS and Android for killing Symbian or some other OS.

              Yes, you can buy Symbian or N9. Symbian phones will be available for years. No applications for those while iPhone has tons of apps?

              If you would live in an universe without iPhone ever invented, there would be very few apps or applications for any phone. Well, actually only applications because there obviously wouldn’t be apps without iPhone.

              The application industry was in a very bad shape before iPhone. There was no real application stored (well working ones) and applications cost 10 or 20 times what they cost today.

              In a world without iPhone you would be using very few applications. So, just get 808 or N9 and pretend that iPhone never was.

              That’s how you can get the perfect phone. Yes?

      • kues

        Apple didn’t invent the modern smartphone in 2007, they just invented an iPod with touch control, mobile phone and internet capabilities.
        But Apple had a coherent product development, innovation and marketing strategy based on iTunes and a strong iPod userbase (about 70 million iPods sold in 2005/06- hitting over 20 million in Q4/2006!).

        Nokia was driving but in the wrong direction- thanks to Ollila who didn’t clean up the top and middle management and managed Nokia like some financial institution whose business modell -if at all- changes very slowly. Nokia had innovation but they didn’t make it into real products (or received no real support), because there was no vision, no overall strategy for a changing market. And when Nokia started to wake up in 2007/08 decisions were made to slow and executed poorly.
        Best example is Nokia buying Symbian and installing the Symbian Foundation. A wonderful plan, development could have been streamlined und speed up (after 10 years of bloating and up to 10 companies meddling around). But Nokia made the opposite happen, more bloating, more delays.
        Nokia had (and still has) a severe problem with top and middle management…

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Really?

          Now how is N95 supposed to be a modern smartphone? The original iPhone can be used as a modern smartphone. I suppose N95 is not one.

          It’s interesting to see how some people still consider phones like N95 as a great modern smartphones.

          • Dr.Smart

            Too much self-pleasuring with Lumia up your arse is what has done this to you .. poor man.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              And this is how Nokia fans talk?

              Nice example.

              • Dr.Smart

                sorry but I stand by my remark.. lol!

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  Sure you do.

                  I never assumed you would do anything else.

              • Dr.Smart

                Sorry but couldn’t fail to notice. You sound as if you are not a Nokia fan? Do come out. An iSheep?

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  Some people seem to think that everyone just has to be a fan of some mobile OS.

                  Maybe that’s the reason. So, you just can’t be honest when talking about mobile phones?

                  I can.

                  Nice.

                  • Dr.Smart

                    No actually I agree with you. What you say just now makes sense. Everything else is trash though.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Nice game, yes?

          • kues

            Never said the N95 is a modern smartphone- though it still can do it’s job. But the original iPhone isn’t a modern smartphone either. The iPhone 3G was a modern smartphone, but it came to market 2008 not 2007- same as Apples appstore which opened doors in 2008 not 2007.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Yes, is it the 3G connection or GPS?

              • kues

                Or the appstore, MMS, etc?
                And yourself: missing touchscreen or low screen resolution?

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  “The original iPhone can be used as a modern smartphone.”

                  I guess I didn’t say it should be used with original software.

                  The original iPhone can be used to get plenty of apps from the App Store. Nice apps. Not all apps but plenty.

                  The Nokia way for designing smartphones was having one OS you can’t really upgrade. perhaps some minor fixes but real upgrades were missing.

                  Really, back in the OPK days there was hardly any OS upgrades. It was only after Elop started to work for Nokia, when they released OS upgrades for Nokia phones. Yes, real upgrades instead of some minor patches/whatever.

                  I guess that if we should blame Elop for everything bad, we should give him credit for making OS upgrades possible for Nokia phones.

                  • kues

                    They could have upgraded the Symbian OS for older devices- it was a choice not do so.
                    And it wasn’t Elop who started the first round of cleaning up the Symbian and Meego development mess- Rich Green and others did do it. As you probably remember it was announced 21 Oct 2010- just one month after Elop took seat as CEO. And it was the CTO presenting the news.
                    Also the unified underlying hardware platform for Symbian^3 devices was of course planned and developed long before Elop was CEO.
                    He was the one who cancelled the highend dualcore and high screenresolution Symbian models as WP couldn’t competed in time…

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Could have? They never did.

                      Real artist ship.

                    • kues

                      Now that’s why Elop didn’t even ship what was already announced. ;-)

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Yes, I guess Elop didn’t have enough talented people to make good enough phones on time.

          • viktor von d.,

            the first iphone was a bonified dumbphone with a toucscreen. you couldn’t install apps,it had no maps,no bluetooth,no sd card, 2 mp camera that only took pictures, no videos, dependedent on itunes, no multitasking, no mms support.
            the current asha phones are supersmartphones compared to what apple had in 2007. and yet people still called it the first real smartphone.
            meanwhile nokia had the n95, the best,real ultimate smartphone available at the time who had most of the features that you expect from a smartphone today.
            here’s something from wikipedia about the n95

            ”Its capabilities include:[1][2] a Global Positioning System receiver with maps and optional turn-by-turn navigation; a 5 megapixel digital camera with Carl Zeiss optics, flash, video recording and video conferencing; wireless connectivity via HSDPA, IrDA, 802.11x and Bluetooth; a portable media player with the ability to download podcasts over the air a FM Radio tuner; Composite Video output via included cable; multi-tasking to allow several applications to run simultaneously; a web browser with support for HTML, JavaScript and Adobe Flash; messaging via SMS, MMS and e-mail; Office suite and organizer functions; and the ability to install and run third party Java ME or Symbian mobile applications.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N95

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              So.

              An updated, original iPhone is still a touch screen smartphone. It’s pretty nice to use web with it. It’s also possible to get tons of apps for the device. Apps that can make it to do something nice. App Store still works.

              And the N95? No touch screen and a very limited selection on applications. Very hard to make it to do anything new with the applications. There are just too few of those. How is the application store/Ovi Store/whatever on the N95?

              So, how comfortable is Angry Birds on the N95? It’s pretty nice on the original iPhone. Very playable. Maybe you consider the N95 version as the better one?

              • Sonny

                So according to you a smartphone has to have a touchscreen and apps?

                Well that means WP isnt a modern smartphone because today’s Iphone as over 700 000 apps while WP8 has 100 000+ apps

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  I guess your religion forbids to call WP as a smartphone?

                  • Sonny

                    Why cant you answer my simple question?

                    according to you the n95 was not a modern smartphone but most people here will say the n95 was Nokia’s best smartphone. So how is WP a modern smartphone OS if it doesnt have all the apps compare to IOS and android?

                    Yes

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      You should try to think what is a modern smartphone and what is not.

                      Maybe you could give me some examples of modern smartphones without touch screen?

                      It’s true that N95 is probably the best smartphone from Nokia. However it’s not a modern smartphone.

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