Nokia’s 808 PureView still rocking the biggest sensor ever put in a smartphone

| February 19, 2013 | 168 Replies

potato vs pureview


Saw an interesting conversation Steve Litchfield was having on twitter. Apparently it appears that someone’s been claiming to have the biggest sensor in a smartphone, Steve and co have some words to say on that matter.


What I’m finding more interesting is the fact that once year over when Nokia destroyed the megapixel race (by bringing out the best camera on paper and performance) some companies are starting to pay attention to other ways they can improve image QUALITY.

Ultrapixel vs PureView.Β 

There’s sensor size and then there’s pixel size. It’s very neat to see pixel size as a feature. Imagine if Nokia did that. Imagine a sensor as huge as the one found in the 808 but reduced to 12MP? Someone do the math of the pixel size? Haha. Of course, that would be a trade off of over sampling.

I wonder what we’ll see at MWC?

P.S. someone’s obviously liking tiles on the homescreen.


Category: Nokia

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  • Viipottaja

    Yup, I too immediately thought: the new Sense takes a lot of cues from WP. πŸ™‚ And good for them, the new Sense looks a LOT better than the old one did. And the phone does look great and can’t wait to see how the pics come out – good to see someone have the balls to go lower on pixel count.

  • viktor von d.

    Htc is to Nokia what Samsung is to Apple.
    at least htc tried to bring something new to the table with their camera. but shame on them for ripping the mic tech in nokias phones. thank god they didn’t rip the supersensitive screen and wireless charging too

    anyways, bring on mwc and i have one question: if htc put a ois camera in a phone so slim, what is holding nokia back?

    • Viipottaja

      It is said to be gyroscope based, not in the actual camera module I guess (and almost certain as its said to apply to the front camera as well).

      • viktor von d.

        didn’t nokia use the gyroscope too?

        • Siliconsub

          No, Nokia used stabliasation based upon the use of the springs and the gyroscope, I’m guessing HTC just used a gyroscope. You may be right, I can’t see how that works out

          • Peter

            Without the spring mechanism to stabilize the lense, it’s pretty much just a software OIS, is it not?

            • Viipottaja

              true… not sure what they mean. in any case, my immediate guess is that even if there is some mechanical/optical stabilization in the lense itselg going on is not quite as effective as Nokia’s, but that may be at least partially offset by the larger pixels (assuming HTC’s statement that the y capture 300% more light is correct)?

            • Prashant

              Lumia 920 has 5 axis sensor shift IS
              HTC has 2 axis gyro based OIS (lens shift probably?)

              • correct

                Typical HTC, this is just a poor copy of Nokia’s optical stabilization.

                I wonder if HTC is involved in industrial espionage with Nokia? The amount of Nokia features and innovations HTC is copying is quite strange.

    • Siliconsub

      My favourite comment of the day, and the sad thing is for HTC, it’s true, their just lucky Nokia isn’t as ruthless as Apple

    • correct

      Yes indeed. HTC is copying Nokia almost move for move. I’m sure if HTC is infringing on any Nokia patents, then Nokia will go after HTC full force.

      I’m not sure how long HTC can survive as a company doing this.

  • Tej. Prarker 2.0

    Thats it, end of story – i saw the live feed of the htc event – im sure this will be better than any pureview that comes out – for sure. htc imaging is going to be the best from now. ULTRAPIXELS. WOW. they make pureview pixels look small.

    • Alvester

      These UltraPixels, as the HTC calls them, limits the resolution of any photo you take with the HTC One to 4 megapixels. You happy with that???

      • swain

        The best of 808 comes out at 5 MP(yes you can take 38 mp but of questionable quality). Remember what Damian said after the launch of 808 pureview ??
        So if they can deliver a better picture with just 4 MP, it will make Nokia to stare into R&D lab and return with something superior.

        • Ron

          Excuse me,
          As you said “The best of 808 comes out at 5 MP(yes you can take 38 mp but of questionable quality)”
          Here are some 38MP samples of 808

          I don’t get it how actually is it “questionable”!!
          Here is a sample of HTC One’s ultrapixel..

          & it doesn’t seem so much “better”(Not sure which camera you are comparing with) than average smartphone shooters to me (Maybe there is a success of providing the quality of mainstream 12/14MP in 4mpx). So, what is there to make Nokia enormously concerned about?
          Pl’s elaborate..

        • dss

          The best results from the 808 come at 8Mpix mode with 95% jpeg quality (superfine) and ND filter off @ 50-100 iso. You pretty much get DSLR like quality in good conditions, and have samples to prove it:

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            “in good conditions”

            That’s always the same. You get those good pictures if you have good conditions.

            Unfortunately that’s not what you will always have.

            Besides 808 is crippled by leaving out some basic stuff like exposure control. Something even a P&S has not to mention a DSLR.

            • AreOut

              so you still feel stupid for buying something else than 808? πŸ˜‰ poor you

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista


                You definitely know that I’ve got one.

                • blah

                  N808 of course has exposure compensation, if you mean exposure time setting, you can use ISO settings for that. But any average+ photographer already knows this. In fact, N808 always shines in bad conditions, all it needs is someone who understands how to take pictures. All world agrees that it’s N1 camera phone by wide margin, so why you keep trolling here with your bs.

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    Are you seriously suggesting that changing the ISO setting is a reasonable way of altering the exposure time?

                    No, that’s not how it should be done. Using the ISO settings for changing the exposure time is one of the crappiest solutions for this issue. Maybe the best in 808 but when comparing to the cameras, it’s a really crappy one.

                    You can make almost any phone to shine if you know how to use it. The problem is that the 808 just doesn’t deliver good pictures in all everyday situations.

                    I have one and I know how to use it. Unfortunately the missing exposure control really ruins the camera in some situations.

                    All world seems to equal some Nokia fans and some other people? Not all word.

                    • blah

                      Noone here believes you own a N808,in fact you just troll in here. I could show you thousands of examples which were done by N808 in every conditions(hell, internet is full of them) that couldn’t be achieved by any other cellphone or P&S beside very few selected and expensive ones like RX-100. I even saw a comparison of N808 with Pentax 645D. That’s how good the camera is – that someone even bothered to do it.

                      Even the most biased journalists acknowledged that N808 is an undisputed king of cameraphones, yet you keep trolling your bullshit here. I won’t feed you anymore, don’t even bother to answer.

                    • MF

                      Show us samples on Flickr please. Thank you.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I think you are just trying to calm yourself by repeating that I don’t have the phone.

                      I own an 808 and guess what, it’s not that hard to purchase one. Retailers do sell those if you didn’t know it. It’s not some miracle device you have to born with. It’s something you can buy.

                      Little honesty please.

                      I’m talking about real world performance. You are talking about specs and situations where there is almost indefinitely time and patience to take the shot.

                      I can take great pictures with it but unfortunately the 808 has some real limitations.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I don’t have a Flickr account.

                      What kind of examples you would like to see?

                • AreOut

                  nah you were asked many times to show examples and you have showed none..I can’t believe why moderators don’t ban you for obvious trolling

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    So, now you have invented a rule saying that every user should provide evidence that they have the device they claim to have?

                    That was a question.

                    I bet truth hurts and that’s why you want to prevent people from talking.

                    • AreOut

                      it’s simple, if you had the phone you would post those “bad” pictures to show us, but you simply don’t have it

                      come on, take a picture of your PC screen showing MNB and upload it πŸ˜‰

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      And how does a picture of a monitor showing the MNB prove that 808 is not that great in certain situations?

                    • AreOut

                      it should prove that you possess the device at all, which you don’t

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I think you don’t have the device.

                    • AreOut

                      I have but that’s not the point of discussion, you are the one trolling about the phone so you should prove that you have it, I agree with 99% users of this phone.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      So you can troll about the device while I’m not allowed to reveal the actual flaws it has?

                      Talk about double standards!

            • Dave

              You also get DSLR like quality from an 808 in less than ideal conditions. I know that I have, and as a result I don’t tend to use the DSLR anything like as much as I used to.

              While a P&S may have exposure control, they’re normally crippled by rubbish optics and a noisy sensor, neither of which are issues on the 808 – which has decent optics and an indecently good sensor.

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                I suppose you are comparing it some really crappy DSLR or you don’t know how to use it?


      and don’t forget about MEGA-PIXELS or SUPER-DUPER PIXELS

    • viktor von d.

      sure it is. htc is the king of imaging tech. just wait and see how they will destroy the competition….sarcasm mode off

  • EasycapExpertti

    HTC One can’t use lossless zoom with photos and videos, because it has lack of megapixels – so the winner is still Nokia.

  • manu

    htc one seems to be an awesome device


      yes it looks sexy, i hope they don’t bring out a wp8 version.

      • swain

        certainly that will kill the already dying Nokia. πŸ˜›


          i was thinking more about lost lumia sales if people where given the option to buy the htc1.

          • swain

            will you pick 920 if given the option of 920 and One ?

            I wont. πŸ™‚

            • guerrahp

              Well, from the way Nokia is doing with exclusivity, most do not have a choice.

              • Just Visiting

                Then it would be just a repeat of the 8x, which is still being outsold by the Lumia 920, not to mention the other 8## variants.

            • blah

              Maybe that’s why 920 won endgadget smartphone of 2012 voting by a huge margin with dozens of comments by satisfied customers, right?

  • Javier

    I’m pretty sure that a downsampled 38mp picture still looks better than a native 8mp picture from a sensor of a given size, since independently of the noise to signal ratio that is related to the pixel area the bayer color filter array requires interpolation to produce the image. In other words, the pureview tech consists in both averaging noise out and increasing the apparent resolution by overcoming bayer-related artifacts. Jay, can you use your connections and ask Juha about this? πŸ™‚

    • Heikki Niininen

      Actually I have been thinking of the same thing. If the sensor of the Nokia 808 would consist of “only” 5 megapixels then the size of the pixels would be natively approximately 4,01 Β΅m. I don’t know the pixel size when using 2 or 3 megapixels but of course it would be still bigger. So it would mean that much more light could be gathered meaning more accurate images.

      Though I read from some camera-centric forum that it seems to be that supersampling with smaller pixel size is better way to achieve good quality in photos than the way with huge pixel size (and now I mean the case of Nokia 808, not DSLR:s or some high-end point-and-shoot -cameras). The bigger pixel count can correct the artifacts that Bayer sensor creates because of the interpolation that the sensor uses to “build” the image. So with only 5 or 2 megapixels there would be more artifacts than with 38 megapixels due to the interpolation of Bayer sensor.

      So I’m quite sure that the engineers in Nokia thought also the possibility of less but HUGE pixels but they decided to rely on supersampling and smaller pixel size with more of them.

      And please correct me if I’m wrong with this statement.

      • Javier

        I’m no expert on sensor tech, but as a photography hobbyist I’ve read this opinion on some serious forums… If you read dpreview as of late you’ll see people wanting moaaaaar pixel area without really knowing ehy or what for, and bashing nokia for going to 41mp πŸ˜‰ i think a lot of the image quality will depend on the algorithms and the signal to noise ratio of the sensor, i.e., on the area but also the chip readout chip, design and manufacturing. One thing I can say is that In good light conditions my 808 is the only thing that rivals the clarity of my sigma dp2s with foveon sensor…

        • Heikki Niininen

          It would be nice to see Nokia using Foveon-sensor (perhaps added with some supersampling) in some future product. Of course the implementation of that technology could be hard but I would be really curious to see how much better color accuracy could be gained from Foveon. But ah, that ugly noise level could raise its head with Foveon-sensor… πŸ™‚

  • Sonny

    I for one hope nokia releases the next PV phone with at least a quad core cpu. They cant take chances and release it with the same cpu in the 920. Imagine what people will say.

    • manu

      + full HD display also,even though not much of practical use πŸ˜€

      • Peter

        I hope Nokia does not listen to clueless people like you.

        • v.s.i

          Why not? Surely spec-whoring has the potential to sway some potential Android customers? and it does *not* hurt Nokia to be perceived as cutting-edge?

        • Sonny

          I know there is no reason for quad core and 1080p screens but in today’s world that is the stuff that gets advertised and average people usually think more its better.

          Symbian was criticized for using nHD screens and Arm11 processors. So do you want Nokia to continue with that legacy?

          • viktor von d.

            hell no, but it makes you wonder what could they do with the extra power? only reason would be for games, but those are pretty scarce on wp. it would be a nice pitch for game makers:” our phones use the same internals as android, but because of the optimized os there is more power from the same components for your games. so please,please,we beg you, we give you money, make some killer games for lumias” lolz

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              Camera applications.

              Those are not just for decreasing the image quality.

              Improving the image quality may take some serious CPU power. That app that does the “PureView” quality on the iPhone requires lots of CPU and it’s still not too fast.

              Similar application with the sensor of the 808 would be really interesting.

              • AreOut

                and what battery is going to supply all of that? Such thing would weigh more than 300g = not practical for a cell phone.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  What makes you think that more CPU cores equals huge power consumption?

                  That may have been true in the past but not any longer with proper HW and SW.

                  The iPhone 5 has a 1,3GHz dual core and it’s not that heavy because of the battery. Just study the products not manufactured only by Nokia in the Symbian era.

                  • AreOut

                    but it doesn’t have big sensor, dedicated imaging processor, xenon etc. which all draw power

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      That sensor draws power only when it’s used. Even then the power usage is not so critical because taking a photo lats only a fraction of time.

                      A dedicated image processor is not required if you use the CPU for processing the image. That was the whole point of having more CPU power.

                      Xenon does not draw power if it’s not used. Most interesting apps enhancing image quality don’t need additional light and using a xenon or led flash could actually ruin the picture.

                      It’s apparent that you don’t have any idea about the possibilities of modern apps or applications enhancing the image quality.

                      No, most of those don’t do it in post production but require active interaction with the sensor.

                      So, battery does not limit having a huge sensor with lots of CPU power.

    • adam

      They would definitely have to change something in the SoC department, if they want a “true” WP Pureview.

      And I say that because the S4 Plus has limits on what it can do in the camera department. I wanna say max 22MP? Anybody wanna correct me here? But yes, I would hope MS optimizes WP for it to handle additional SoC’s, instead of just the S4Plus. I actually thought the reason why MS went to the NT kernel was because it would get away from hardware limitations like this. I dunno, I kinda hope that MS appeals to Nokia so they can do what they want with the Pureview. I’d sure hate to see Nokia waiting for MS…

  • Sonny

    Plus why on earth has Nokia stopped releasing phone’s with stereo speakers? Also I can already see how people will brag about the new HDR Mic’s in the One, where we all know Nokia had Rich recording before but never promoted it! GEEZZ NOKIA!!! You better come out swinging at MWC!

    • swain

      Have you seen the 12mp camera of N8 in any other Nokia device ???

      This is a very common thing for Nokia. They just don’t want to release devices with components which may make a device successful.

      • viktor von d.

        haha, good point, what the hell happened to the n8 12 mp sensor? they should have improved it and put it in another phone. they just love to stumble over their own feet

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          People wanted to buy thin phones.

          That’s what happened.

          It became very hard to sell phones if they were not thin enough.

  • MF

    Once again, HTC lives up to its truly hard-earned reputation and capability… of copying. Copying Nokia’s innovations and Apple’s hype machine.

    Yet all they can manage is an apparently poor implementation of downsampling and OIS. Nokia, now is the chance for you to wipe the floor at MWC!

    • Sonny

      If I remember correctly, didn’t HTC last year release the Titan2 with a 16mp camera at MWC? then Nokia came with the 808 41mp, boom in your face!

      Hope it happens again this year.

      • MF

        I believe it was the HTC One X unveiled at last year’s MWC, and no surprise that HTC was boasting of how good its camera is. Then Nokia unleashed the 808 which wiped that smug look off Peter Chou’s face. I don’t understand the logic behind HTC pre-announcing it before MWC, quite possibly they want the maximum publicity for this device knowing that Nokia is going to humiliate them again this year.

      • dss

        Ya.. the mp count was a headline grabber, but there is so much more to it than just that. The 808 has the technology to influence the imaging industry in a major way.. too bad Nokia doesn’t know how to capitalize on it.

    • swain

      I have never bought a Samsung/HTC device in my life but I hate when people cry without any reason.
      Would you care to mention what they copied ???

      • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

        The look from the iPhone?

        It’s not just making a phone that’s rectangular. People saying that are just implying that they don’t understand anything about design. That kind of people seem to think that every car looks the same if they have for wheels and doors.

        Samsung copied the iPhone. That’s pretty obvious.

      • MF

        Nokia is the first to mention that it is the size of the pixels that count, not the number of them. This was implemented in the 808 with downsampling to 2 or 5MP. Somehow HTC had the audacity to:
        1. Copy the idea of less but large pixels
        2. Claim that this is their idea
        3. And most cynically, to accuse the 808 for getting it wrong by escalating the megapixels race.

        Another example is them copying Nokia’s idea of OIS.

        Now I don’t mean copying as in Apple suing Samsung kind of copying. But HTC has this horrible recent history of copying every single thing that Nokia is doing that to me is just bull!”#*. If nothing else it proves how bankrupt HTC is and how it is incapable of doing its own things like every normal and reputable firm.

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          1. Nokia was not the first to mention that.
          2. What was the actual claim?
          3. 808 is what it is just because of megapixels. With just a 5MP sensor with the size 808 has today, it would be even less viable product it’s today.

          Nokia did not invent combining pixels, using a large sensor or saying that megapixels are the only thing that matters. Maybe you should blame HTC for copying someone else than Nokia?

          • MF

            1. Nokia certainly did not invent this concept. However, among smartphone makers (which is the appropriate context here), Nokia was the first to apply this concept to their products (i.e. the 808). You can refer to the White Paper or Youtube video explaining how this concept works within the 808 Pureview.

            2. Somehow by magical coincidence, HTC suddenly discovers the wondrous virtues of combining pixels. I’m sure HTC didn’t copy Nokia. I’m sure they haven’t read Nokia’s White Paper. Because if they had, then the infographic posted in HTC’s blog can only be described as wilfully malicious with intention to misrepresent and to mislead. I’m sure they discovered this idea by coincidence, and this has nothing to do with the 808 Pureview. Yeah, right.

            3. HTC created this infographic titled “history of photography” which directly implied that the 808 Pureview is an escalation in the MP wars, and it also indirectly implied that HTC is the first to act against this conventional wisdom.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              1. Actually Apple was talking about pixel size long before Nokia introduced the 808. Nokia may have improved the idea on mobile phones. However I don’t think even Apple was the first one to talk about pixel size in mobile phones.

              2. I guess they had this idea of using larger pixels in a phone they manufacture. Now what’s wrong with that?

              3. Very subjective matter. In my books 808 would have been next to nothing without all those megapixels. They did promote combining pixels but they also heavily promoted the megapixel count.

          • MF

            I actually sincerely wish that HTC is smart enough to copy someone else. I mean, pixel binning has been around for a long time and it is only through clever implementation by Nokia’s 808 Pureview that this is successfully applied. I wish HTC were smart enough to have thought about UltraPixels first before the Pureview. Or smart enough to use OIS on its phones before the Lumia 920. Or smart enough to have thought about wireless charging. Many other examples. No, HTC lacks the brains to come up with anything first, it needs Nokia to show it the way.

            Take my word for it. If Nokia invents a new technology called “htshiat” then you can be pretty darn sure HTC will try to implement “htshiat2” shortly after. Of course by HTC it will be “shiattily” done.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              Are you saying that Nokia invents something when they implement something that someone has already invented, to a mobile phone? That’s most interesting view. I have read countless times from MNB how Apple didn’t invent anything but only implemented an old invention to a mobile phone.

              Why can’t HTC implement those things if they are not protected by patents? People are complaining about Apple trying to prevent other companies from using inventions protected by patents Apple has. Now Nokia apparently don’t even have patents for these technologies, but I see people complaining about that.

              That’s just strange.

              • MF

                Troll, you need to improve your reading comprehension. I clearly said Nokia DID NOT INVENT the technology. It had merely implemented it effectively in their product. And then HTC came along and copied it.

                And I emphasized that I don’t expect Nokia to sue them or anything. My only problem with them is that I do not appreciate what HTC is doing as a corporate strategy.

                Let me put it to you in simpler terms. Say you happened to have a neighbour who copied your every single hairstyle, looks and clothing exactly the same. Without fail. Is your hairstyle patented? Are your looks patented? Are your clothings patented? Do you appreciate what your neighbour is doing?

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  You were talking about Nokia inventing something.

                  ” If Nokia invents a new technology called β€œhtshiat” ”

                  I was merely asking what do you consider as an invention?

                  Did you dislike Nokia when they copied Apple?

                  About someone copying me.

                  I guess it would be nice to see someone copying me that much.

                  It’s very nice to see how people are copying me even here in MNB. It’s just telling me that I’m using some really good methods. People want to use them.

    • correct

      Yes correct. Poor poor HTC.

      Everyone in the industry is copying either Nokia or Apple. They are the two leaders of the industry.

  • Alvester

    I effing hate this arguement:

    “We know that the industry, essentially, has been shipping this big fat lie” about megapixels, HTC’s Director of special projects, Symon Whitehorn, argues. Sensors that try to pack too many megapixels into too small of a space are “carrying a load of crap,” he says, in the form of “extraneous data that you don’t want.”

    • twig

      This is HTC’s late stand with the new HTC One Android. I don’t think HTC will live past these next two quarters. The big banks want Sammie to buy out BlackBerry to develop a new Android OS or make a new Samsung OS.

  • Baptiste Giabiconi

    I am pretty sure Nokia will announce something big with a magnitude equal or greater of that 808 PureView announcement. But what worries me most is how they are going to present it onstage.

    I’m not hating Jo Harlow but that lady better give the crown, sash and duties of introducing new tech to the first runner-up, Marko Ahtisaari. Or someone who is capable of delivering onstage whose words and style of speaking would penetrate the thick skulls of journalists who still don’t recognize Nokia’s supremacy.

    Thinking that the reigning Jo Harlow will present the EOS is making me nervous. Let Marko wear your crown, babe. πŸ˜€

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      People in Finland think that Marko Ahtisaari is the new Steve Jobs and he may have even better design skills Jobs had.

      Marko Ahtisaari is pretty much praised in Finland.

    • jr

      Totally agree! DO NOT let Jo Harlow on stage. I’m sure she’s a nice lady but her presentations are dull and gray and without any form of enthusiasm.

  • Pathetic

    also enjoys (808) being the biggest bastard. stop putting these stupid stories, nokia kill this phone get over it. all that remains is the shit (WP) talk about it . Ttoday HTC fucked Nokia . (it was only a matter of time )

  • Pathetic

    also enjoys (808) being the biggest bastard. stop putting these stupid stories, nokia kill this phone get over it. all that remains is the shit (WP) talk about it . Ttoday HTC fu*ked Nokia . (it was only a matter of time )

    • Bassman

      What? Do you actually look at what you’ve typed before pressing the submit button? More ramblings….

  • muerte

    Oh shit, Im sure that HTC will advertise the hell out of OIS, Ultrapixels and other copied innovations from Nokia. No matter if they work or not, they will let everyone know that they have “invented” something.

    Why can’t Nokia advertise? Nobody knows about their greatness.

    • swain

      Ultrapixels is not a copy of Superpixel. The concept and implementation are very different.

      It’s really impressive how HTC is able to fit much superior hardware in a compact, slim and light body.

      • dss

        They are very different.. it makes you think how many “tech bloggers” have no idea what they are talking about when they say that its similar to the tech used in the 808…

  • Heikki Niininen

    Btw, is the sensor of this new HTC One regular Bayer-sensor or Foveon-sensor? I can’t find confirmation for this issue anywhere… If you can help me, thanks in advance.

    • dss

      Its … “Foveon like” .. I dunno.. I ma confused as well. It should be Foveon since they are stacking them, but I am not sure.

    • Javier

      I can’t find it either, but it seems that it’s a typical bayer array – otherwise I’m sure they’d be hyping the three layer “true color” sensor instead of the photosite size… What is unfortunate is that htc’s deceiving marketing hype is already confusing people as to the advantages of nokia’s pureview tech.

      • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

        Very few people actually know about the 808’s PureView tech.

        And even those who know about it, don’t know how it really works in real world situations. It doesn’t have a lossless zoom because the image quality takes a huge hit when the zoom is used.

        That’s just one example of the things people don’t know about it.

        • correct

          That’s silly. A “huge” hit? Quite an exaggeration there.

          On my N8, even when using zoom, quality still remains pretty good.

          In 5MP or 8MP mode, yes the 808 has almost lossless zoom. The quality drop off is not that huge.

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            It’s huge hit compared to the claim that it’s lossless.

            If it was really lossless, there wouldn’t be a hit.

            • correct

              It’s a hit, but I disagree in calling it huge.

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                A bit less light and the impact is quite remarkable.

                • MF

                  A bit less light and how does your Apple 5 perform? Magical as usual?

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    Actually I have iPhone 4S.

                    Quite well.

                    Better that 808 actually, if I don’t have all the time in the world to fiddle with the settings.

                    You can call it magic if you want to. It may even appear to be magic because it’s a device that gets the job done. Not like the 808 where you take a picture, then fiddle with the settings hoping that you get the next right and then repeating this process for some time.

                    • invertol

                      So when are the iPhone 4-iPhone 5 camera superior to the one in N8 and N808?

                      Please show us!

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I was speaking about 808.

                      For example.

                      It’s superior sometimes when you don’t have all the time in the world to fiddle with the settings.

                      The lack of control for exposure time makes it really hard and clumsy to use the device when there is less light.

                      It’s easy to miss a moment when you have to spend time trying to figure out the correct setting.

            • MF

              The problem with Nokia is that they use technical jargons like lossless zoom, oversampling, microns, etc. The iSheep can relate to things like ‘magical’ but anything more complicated may risk frying their brains.

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                Actually it’s the Nokia sheep who seem to believe everything Nokia claims. Lossless zoom and superior performance in every situation.

                In reality the zoom is not a lossless one and the device is not performing with a superior level in every situation.

                Nokia sheep like to talk about real features, but unfortunately they don’t understand the meaning of all that.

                Most people using products made by Apple are just wanting to get the job done. Nothing more. They don’t care about the details if they get it done.

                Those Nokia sheep are pretty sad because of this.

  • MF

    Btw, what is this claim about this new sensor collecting 330% more light? Because of larger micron or something inherently superior about their sensors that was not announced?

  • Luisito

    MMM… I think it’s time to starting to care about HTC imaging engineering effor, one of this days they coul cacht (if not surpass) Nokia’s efforts… I remenber when US car industry first laugh at the Japanese car maker efforts, and then at the South Korean Kia/Hyundai efforts, now look…

  • Sonny

    Can someone explain to me why we havent seen PC tech like having a 1080p monitor but choosing to run it on 720p on smartphones? Is the mobile operating systems not up to it or what?

    I think that would be cool especially if need to play certain games or if you dont want your 5″ 1080p screen to drain you battery just change the resolution to something lower like 720p

  • PhilK

    I thought HTC was doing a Foveon sensor… but they aren’t. A shame.

    Damian Dinning said nokia almost did this same thing – that the pureview was going to be a camera with only 5 mpx and it was going to have a huge sensor… but that they weighed the pros and cons and decided to go with the oversampling. HTC is going the other route.

    I’ll hang on to my Pureview for now…. looking to see what to get next – this HTC is not enough of an ugrade and the WP Pureview is essentially the same thing.
    Someone make an advance!

    • dss

      hm.. well the HTC doesn’t really have a huge sensor tho, its only 1/3″ πŸ™‚

  • stylinred

    the new HTC has image stabilisation through a gyroscope however low light shots are limited to 4mpx
    the phone looks nice a shame the camera isnt anything near what i was hoping it to be

  • Muerte

    Our beloved ex-Nokian camera guru Tweets:

    Damian Dinning ‏@PhoneDaz
    Did I miss something today?? Thought HTC were introducing a breakthrough camera?? Read the whole press release but no, couldn’t find it.

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      Did I miss something today? I tried to change the exposure on my 808 but couldn’t find the setting for it.


      This is the same guy who ruined the 808 by voluntarily leaving the exposure control out of it?

      • AreOut

        yeah it has to be the biggest fault of the 808 πŸ˜€

        also what about exposure compensation and bracketing?! If you know what that means πŸ˜€

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          Not the biggest fault but missing the exposure control renders it almost useless for many tasks. I guess Dinning is an amateur if he really intentionally left that feature out.

          No, he is an amateur if he intentionally left that out.

          And some people are praising him. Incredible!

          • AreOut

            people are obviously very satisfied with his work, if you had this phone you would know πŸ™‚

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              They sure are.

              Some people were satisfied with Symbian phones even while those were pretty horrible devices.

  • tim

    i think htc copied all good things fromer other companies in to one beautiful device. the biggest feature is the fhd display.
    And there might be the problem for nokia in the next 6 months because microsoft does not support 1080p!!! I think would way quicker than microsoft to do that. so i dont think the 920 will sell good to the october 2013 when nokia dont do something even better. the success of the 920 was because it was top hardware but 2gb ram is standard even quad core and 1080p so it looks like the 920 is older than it really is.
    and in germany you can preorder the htc one for 629 and the 920 costs more than that!!!!

    • viktor von d.

      the only reason why android phones need quad core now is because of the full hd screen. and the reason why phones of 5 inches need full hd resolution is……. there is no other benefit from quad core at this point. and wp is optimized unlike android.but if you are going to put full hd at least put it in a 5.5 inch phone. then you will need a quad core and 2 gb of ram. right now you litterally don’t need these super specs,unless some quality games will start popping up in the marketplace, or nokia comes up with some monster cameras that need the extra power

    • DesR85

      “And there might be the problem for nokia in the next 6 months because microsoft does not support 1080p!!! I think would way quicker than microsoft to do that. so i dont think the 920 will sell good to the october 2013 when nokia dont do something even better.”

      What are you talking about? The 920 does support 1080p video recording. I even managed to record videos with it in that resolution during Chinese New Year.

  • dss

    The 808 is such a pain in the butt for so many people.. love it.

    Here are some samples from the new HTC… its interesting sensor, but indoor/high ISO is obviously not it’s strong side

    I can already tell that the 808 will destroy it in all possible conditions.

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      How is that possible when the 808 can’t even beat the iPhone 4S in all conditions?

      By all conditions I refer to real world usage and not to a situation you have indefinitely time and patience to take the picture.

      • AreOut

        what conditions are you referring to exactly?

        • MF

          He’s sulking because he didn’t read up about the 808 before buying it, and the only photos he takes are those fast speed and action like sports, etc. So what he really needs is a dual or quad core processor smartphone rather than one that takes the best low light or zoom.

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            I pretty much knew what I was buying. I had my reasons for buying it because while it’s definitely not an “general purpose” camera for almost every occasion like the iPhone 4S almost is, the 808 is really good at some tasks.

            It was to be expected that Nokia would fail to deliver a truly finalized product and there would be some surprises. So, those issues 808 has, were not such a problem for me. I knew Nokia has issues with the products they ship.

            • MF

              No, you are clearly unhappy with your 808 (if you really had one). I can only guess that you took really poor shots, posted them on your FB page and nobody clicking “Like”, and you got angry at Nokia for not making you a better photographer. I mean, you paid a few hundred well-earned dollars and Nokia didn’t make you take great photos!

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                Of course I’m unhappy with not having something like exposure control. I guess most MNB readers must be those using only the full auto mode if they don’t think that’s a problem. Full auto mode with a phone and with a DSLR.

                But hey, MNB’s professional photographers think that it’s just reasonable to use the ISO settings for the exposure time. Some real professionals, right?

                • MF

                  Yes, for professional photographers it’s not a big deal. You understand the quirks of the equipment that you have and deal with it. It is far more important that your equipment is capable of taking excellent pictures.

                  Clearly for iPhone it is never an issue since nobody takes their iPhotography seriously anyway.

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    So, are you suggesting that professional photographers don’t need exposure control? You really know really strange professionals.

                    I guess some old school Nokia fans don’t take photos taken with the iPhone seriously. Maybe they should. You don’t seem to understand half of it.

                    It’s really nice to have that exposure control on my iPhone.

                    • AreOut

                      unfortunately for you it still doesn’t help it make better pictures than 808, even N8

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Actually it does when you don’t have infinite time and patience to take the picture.

                      You get a better picture because with the 808 you just miss the moment.

                      It’s that simple.

                      It’s easy to miss the moment with the 808. Just because it’s clumsy to use.

                    • AreOut

                      how is it clumsy exactly? but I agree, if you don’t even possess the phone it’s very easy to miss the moment πŸ˜€

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I guess you have never really used the device.

                    • MF

                      Shhh, don’t burst his bubble. Apple 5 can take pictures and the iSight is MAGICAL.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I see.

                      You are Apple envy.

                      Sorry about revealing how your precious 808 can’t perform as well as Nokia has been claiming.

                      It doesn’t even have a setting for exposure time. And now MNB camera “professionals” are claiming that real cameras don’t need one.

                      Some professionals!

                    • MF

                      No, my admiration for iSight knows no bounds. It can take still pictures of moving objects and the photos even look magically yellow like it was shot by my great grandparents.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      What about those 808 pictures where the image is blurry or the moment is already gone when the image was taken?

                      That’s what easily happens with the 808 if you don’t have some really good light.

                      I guess the Nokia sheep always have indefinitely time and patience to take their pictures because they don’t have anything better to do than fiddle with the settings.

            • MF

              No worries, Nokia is about to fix that. Their imaging head recently mentioned wanting to create a camera that even a baby can use to take good photos. So, I guess that will help compensate your lack of skills. But you will still need to point your camera at the right objects to take photos.

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                Funny thing.

                Not too long ago Nokia fans were bragging with Symbian’s complexity. They claimed that it was just fine to make it impossible to use if you were not too smart.

                With that attitude it’s not a wonder Nokia failed.

                • MF

                  Funny? How is that funny?

                  • correct

                    I think he’s being sarcastic. Possibly.

                    Although I’m still confused by his statements. On one hand he greatly criticizes Nokia for leaving out exposure timing control on the 808, yet he praises Apple for having the 4S camera that is easy to use and takes good photos.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      The difference is that I can get some camera apps for the 4S, having the control for exposure time.

                      With 808 that’s apparently not possible.

                      The iPhone is like this open world where the user can pick some app they need.

                      Symbian is this closed system where there are very few applications and the user has no freedom of choice.

                      In theory it’s just the opposite but in reality you have the freedom of choice with the iPhone.

                    • MF

                      I’m guessing from the amount of time he spends at MNB probably reveals an anger he felt that Symbian was discontinued therefore lacking apps and updates, but at the same time he harbors a secret admiration for the 808’s superlative capabilities. Certain people have complex personalities but it’s not very helpful that he’s only a keyboard warrior. He would be happier if he’s out and about taking photos with the 808. I know because I own one and have taken thousands of photos.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I have 808 and I know the flaws it has.

                      It’s very hard to believe you take that many pictures and never noticed the issues with the 808.

                      I have taken great pictures with the iPhone and with the 808. That’s because I know how to take pictures.

                      That’s also the reason why I know what’s good and bad in those devices.

                    • AreOut

                      yeah all other people are very satisfied with 808 and only you find retarded iphone comparable to it lol

                      and btw why you don’t show us some picture from your 808?

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      First of all. I never saw any pictures from you so you probably don’t have any Nokia phones. So, why are you talking about them?

                      I have both so I know what they can and can’t do.

                      Most Nokia fans seem to be pleased with inferior features because they don’t know about anything better.

                      I’m talking about real world usage.

                    • AreOut

                      I have both 808 and Android phone (Xperia), as I said before I don’t have anything to prove because my experience with it is same like other 99% users of the phone. Yours is different so go and prove us that you possess it at all.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      The other 99%?


                      I guess you don’t have any proof about 99% of the users having that opinion.

                      Your problem seems to be someone who likes to talk about real world performance and not only about some specs you would like to be the truth.

                    • AreOut

                      why are you trying to prove that you are stupid?

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Why are you complaining when hardly anyone besides the religious guys praising Symbian, don’t really believe anything you say?

                      Symbian was a religion that almost killed Nokia and you are trying to say that all other people are satisfied on a phone with Symbian OS.



    • DesR85

      “I can already tell that the 808 will destroy it in all possible conditions.”

      I think that’ll be overkill. If you ask me, any 5MP autofocus camera phone can smack that HTC One silly. Even my 6700 Slide can take better pictures than this phone. Might end up with more noise indoors but at least the picture(s) don’t look muddy.

      • correct

        My N8 in 3MP mode will likely destroy this HTC’s picture quality, and the N8 in default 9MP mode definitely will destroy it.

  • D Harries

    I wonder how many discerning mobile phone customers there are. I think this is the problem with HTC and Nokia right now. You can make a great phone, get great reviews, but the phone doesn’t sell. If I want a new mobile, and I’m clueless, I can follow the masses and make a black and white choice between Samsung and Apple, and not be wrong.

    Just like cars, the phone has to appeal to the consumer on some other intangible level. Something about the product creates a hook. There are no correct answers. Will it be the bright plastic covers? Will people care or understand about the megapixel debate?

    In addition, people commute, not updating their home computers any more, life is ever more portable.