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TheVerge calls HTC One UltraPixel Camera ‘MEDIOCRE’ (Remember, Nokia 808 PureView as Astounding, Breathtaking, Stupefying!)

| March 12, 2013 | 178 Replies

Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 14.53.48

 

Since HTC dissed Nokia’s PureView technology found in the Nokia 808 PureView in favour of their supposedly wondrous UltraPixel, I think it’s always worth sharing the truth coming from the tech reviews (rather than HTC’s delirious bravado).

http://mynokiablog.com/2013/02/05/chief-potato-camera-maker-htc-disses-the-renowned-camera-of-the-nokia-808-pureview/

TheVerge join the ranks of several reviewers that don’t seem too pleased with the HTC One’s ultrapixel camera. Now it’s not potato camera bad anymore, but neither is it as brilliant as HTC made out. Certainly, it does not deserve the right to disrespect Nokia’s PureView.

 it doesn’t change the fact that the pictures I took on the One just don’t look very good.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/11/4086390/htc-one-review

Credit where credit is due, the HTC One otherwise appears to be a very decent smartphone. Props HTC.

The point of this is that with regards to the camera where HTC shouted loud and proud and put down PureView (and various other manufacturers), well, it was all a load of baloney. It’s not even anywhere near the 808 or the nearing the best out there. It’s just MEDIOCRE.

Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 15.16.26

htc

Nokia 808 PureView

  • Nokia has produced the greatest cameraphone
  • the one standout feature on the 808 PureView is so vastly ahead of anything we’ve seen before
  • I look at the photos I’ve taken with the 808 PureView and keep asking myself, where is the noise? Nokia, what did you do with the noise?
  •  this sensor at 5 megapixels is simply untouchable
  • The 808 PureView is that good.
  • Choose your favorite exaggerated epithet and apply it to the 808 PureView’s camera. It doesn’t matter what it is, it’ll be true.
  • This phone’s image quality is so far ahead of the competition that it really has no competition
  • at 5 megapixels, the PureView camera delivers, without doubt, the most detailed and natural images of any cameraphone
  • it’s capable of shooting 38-megapixel pictures that match or exceed the quality of most smartphones
  • Think about that latter point for a moment.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/25/3113460/nokia-808-pureview-review

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Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 15.23.55

Nokia

Isn’t it funny that HTC, after releasing a phone with 16MP one year, got trampled by Nokia’s 41MP Nokia 808 shortly after (not just in number but sheer quality), the following year decided to turn back on themselves as some truth-seeker wanting to re-educate all on the megapixel myth (only to fail against the 808 PureView again). It’s this sort of inconsistency with their message and morals that I dislike about HTC. That and their somewhat underhanded deceitfulness when disrespecting Nokia’s actual PROVEN accomplishments in the 808 PureView.

But a great camera isn’t enough to make for a great mass market smartphone. For the camera phone fanatics, yes. Look no further. But Nokia needs to match PureView with a great smartphone experience (Every review had something to say against Symbian in the 808). This was almost done with the Nokia Lumia 920 but of course, that’s PureView V2. It was great, superb in low light and enough to win the top Camera award from none other than Gizmodo. I love the camera in my 920 but it would be awesome to push the boat out and have the unrivalled detail, lossless zoom and xenon-ultra low light flash photography in V1 (or even just actually 920 with xenon. Heck 900 with xenon would have been fine). Here’s to Nokia EOS later this year.

Edit (Ali):

In case you missed it watch the HTC one get destroyed by both the Lumia 920 and its little brother, the 720.

 

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Category: Nokia

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • swain

    Just wanted to add that, 808 is now more usable after the gallery update. Yes, yesterday I received the update. The Gallery feels almost complete now. Two new shortcuts added:

    1. Select multiple items and send them via message/mail/bluetooth/whatsapp
    2. Select multiple items and share them via facebook/flickr/twitter

    Camera changes are not notable. You can find the resolution and jpeg quality displayed besides the Reset button. I am not sure if it was there before.

    • Weirdfisher

      It is usable if u consider it is a camera phone

      • swain

        Well. It’s up to you how you find it. For me, it’s still the best and most usable Symbian.

      • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

        Usable, yes. Great, no.

        I really would like to see 808 having as good camera applications as iPhone has.

        • imcoolerthanjay

          You are becoming really lame bro… Enough with it. Seriously.

          • AreOut

            he’s probably getting paid per post…

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            If that’s lame, you don’t really know what kind of cool camera applications other phones have.

            808 has a great sensor. It’s huge and it can capture lots of data. However this was about the camera software. It’s really usable. But unfortunately great. It just doesn’t have the features you can find from other phones.

            Now what’s the problem with that?

            • swain

              What’s wrong with 808’s camera app ??
              You have Camera Lover Pack and CamEfx for additional features.

              • AreOut

                he likes his apps named iFart or similar, that’s what is wrong ;)

                • swain

                  ha..haa… :D

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                Where is the setting for exposure time?

                Why doesn’t the flash stay off in the auto mode when I have set it off?

                How about creating some HDR images on the phone and not in post?

                How do I lock focusing and exposure time?

                How about PureView or similar combining pixels for extreme close ups?

                • Mapantz

                  Agian, you list all of these items and yet no other phone with a camera can compete with the imagery. I personally don’t want all that crap on my 808, i take the beautiful images i want, upload some to Facebook and all of them to Skydrive and i’m happy.

                  You don’t see to be happy with anything and that includes life right? You come across very emo in every single post you make!

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    I was talking about the camera application. Not the sensor.

                    Do you understand the difference?

                    • RVM

                      Too bad that those advanced iPhone camera apps have so cumbersome UI.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Some of them really have quite bad user interfaces.

                • AreOut

                  There is an application for HDR.

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    Even while I was listing the features 808’s camera application is missing, it’s great that even 808 has some software support.

                    Now, if there was one for the exposure time, that would be great.

                    • AreOut

                      Go and make it, it’s not forbidden.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      That’s the only answer?

                      Really?

                    • AreOut

                      Yes, really.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Sorry, I checked the Qt API.

                      That is forbidden. Nokia has decided that applications are allowed to read the setting for the exposure time but writing it is not allowed.

                      So, I really can’t make even if I wanted to because Nokia forbids it by not creating an API for it.

                    • AreOut

                      Too bad for Nokia, they have lost 1 customer in total.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Too bad you had misinformation when you claimed that it’s not forbidden to make that kind of application.

        • Nabkawe

          Its a Camera phone ,Apps are no longer separated from their OS , sometimes apps can save the OSs ass , like in the case of Proshot lens where it gives manual focus option , which is the perfect way to take close up pictures EVER.

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            It should have some truly great camera applications utilizing the huge sensor. Too much of the capacity is now wasted just because of the mediocre camera application 808 has.

            • swain

              “Too much of the capacity is now wasted just because of the mediocre camera application 808 has.”

              and what makes you believe this ?

              Ever heard of Super over sampling and Loss less zoom ?

              • swain

                My bad. It’s Super pixel(created by pixel over sampling).

              • mirco

                His point is that you don’t have the control over all necessary parameters like manual focus or manual exposure time. Something which you’d expect from a camera aiming for high quality.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  It’s just like that!

                  People like to compare 808 to some P&S cameras and even to DLSR’s but it’s very hard to find even the cheapest P&S cameras without those features.

                  It’s incredibly frustrating trying to figure out the correct setting for exposure time with ISO settings.

                  This alone makes 808’s camera application mediocre at the best, for a serious photographer.

                  A camera aiming for high quality should have those features.

                  • AreOut

                    There obviously is not enough demand for such application, if there was someone would make it. If you know what you are talking about and know something about programming then go and do it yourself, QT is very easy to work with.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      There may not be enough demand because the unit sales of the 808 are probably not that great.

                      I’m not that interested that I would waste my time for creating one. Besides, Qt doesn’t have API’s for everything so it’s possible that Qt API doesn’t even support the exposure time.

                      Actually, I bet it doesn’t.

                    • RVM

                      Exposure time setting might be forbidden for various reasons. However, i have never seen a single reviewer criticizing lack of this feature. Most people are used to exposure compensation (like it is implemented in 808) after all.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      It might be.

                      However I have apps for the iPhone, giving me control over the exposure time. I really wonder why Nokia never implemented control for exposure time even for the Qt API.

                      I quickly checked the API and it seems that it’s missing.

                      I really wonder how competent is someone comparing 808 to a real camera having settings for exposure time. That is, if that person does not pay attention to 808 lacking some basic manual settings even almost every P&S camera has.

                      Exposure compensation is not the same thing.

                    • RVM

                      Nokia 808 even lacks variable aperture! When people are comparing 808 to P&S, they are talking about picture quality mostly. And that is what matters the most.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Picture quality suffers greatly if you can’t use the correct settings for taking the picture.

                      That’s the reason why 808 fails in so many places. Disclaimer: Not in every situation. In good conditions 808 takes great pictures.

                      One guy in MNB even said that 808 is a great camera and if I can’t take a picture when it’s dark, I should come back in the daytime. That writer failed to understand why it’s better to have a camera you can use to take the picture when you want to.

                    • RVM

                      The best camera is the one you have with yourself. And that’s not the case with P&S. And no single smartphone can beat 808 in picture quality, in different conditions, no matter what settings you use on it. Even with long exposure times on iPhone u would get worse results than with 808 on auto mode.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Exactly! The best camera is what I have and that’s usually iPhone because 808 fails on several tasks I want my phone to perform.

                      You have clearly not used the iPhone with good apps and compared the results to 808. 808 just fails against iPhone on auto when you have low light situations. If you have lots of time, you can get better results with fiddling with the settings but even that doesn’t guarantee better results in every situation.

                    • RVM

                      In my case the best camera is 808, because iPhone isn’t good enough phone for me.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      It probably is best for you while 808 just can’t deliver for me.

                      People are different.

              • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                I have heard, but are you suggesting that those are everything that makes the *application* great?

                Besides, 808 has some serious drop on image quality if the zoom is used. Combining the pixels can’t be used when zoomed to the max. This is something some people like to forget.

                • AreOut

                  Yes and it doesn’t make coffee too. Your iphone probably has application that makes coffee. Actually when I remember how many times my friends have got “overheating” message on their iphones it could serve that purpose very well.

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    Coffee? I can order coffee with my iPhone.

                    Unfortunately the camera application on the 808 is not that great and the selection of alternatives is not that good.

                • RVM

                  Every camera has some serious drop on image quality if zoom is used. And i’m talking about optical zoom here. I wonder how u would call drop that occurs on iPhone when zoomed though. “Serious serious seriou s drop” ?

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    No, they doesn’t. They have some drop on image quality, but it’s not serious in all of them.

                    I don’t think iPhone is claiming to have a lossless zoom.

                    But hey, maybe Nokia has redefined lossless as something that can have serious drop of image quality.

                    • RVM

                      They use term lossless, because drop in quality when zoomed is negligible comparing to other smartphones.

                      And as i said, even with optical zoom lenses (apart from some high end ones) you have image quality drop when zoomed in, because of lower aperture.

                      And btw, there is no difference in image quality between “zoomed in” images and full resolution mode images. Higher quality in PureView modes is only result of postprocessing.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I see.

                      So you say that it’s not lossless but they have decided to say it’s lossless.

                      People like to compare 808 to P&S cameras. They even said that 808 makes them obsolete. Even my years old 180€ P&S beats the 808 in zoom just because the drop in quality is not as big as it’s with the 808.

                      But hey, it’s the Nokia fans comparing 808 to the P&S cameras. Not me.

                      While there is no difference in quality in full resolution and zoomed (cropped) images, it’s not possible to zoom in full resolution. That’s no zoom available. The phone says something like that when you try to zoom in full resolution.

                    • RVM

                      There are 3 possible situations:

                      1) full mode – standard quality
                      2) PureView mode, zoomed in – standard quality
                      3) PureView mode – improved quality.

                      So as u can see, even when zoomed in, you have your standard quality of image. Therefore it’s a lossless zoom.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      By that definition every camera has a lossless zoom if someone writes the software for it.

                      Just take a picture with full resolution, lossless.

                      Then take a picture, crop it and you have the lossless zoom. Just like with the 808.

                      That’s how 808 does it. It just crops the full resolution picture if zoomed to the max.

                      Therefore every camera has this “lossless” zoom if you just crop the image.

                      Suddenly it’s not that special to have this kind of “lossless” zoom in your camera. Everyone can zoom in post and it’s lossless.

                      By your definition.

                    • RVM

                      Yea, but they didn’t implement it, because no one wants 1MPx or 2MPx zoomed in images.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Sure they did implement it on the iPhone.

                      You can crop the image on iPhone.

                      That’s how you have lossless zoom on iPhone by your definition.

                      In my opinion neither of those are really a lossless zoom.

                    • RVM

                      It’s not the same, because u can’t see cropped image in viewfinder while taking photo.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Are you really trying to say that your definition of lossless zoom is showing a cropped image in the viewfinder when the picture is taken?

                    • RVM

                      My definition of lossless zoom is ability to zoom (in viewfinder) without noticeable loss of details.

                    • RVM

                      level of details*

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I see.

                      So, I have the better vision. I notice the downgrade on the image quality when I zoom with the 808.

                      So, maybe you don’t, but

                      I see.

                    • RVM

                      There’s no downgrade between the quality of zoomed image and non-zoomed unprocessed (full resolution) image.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Sure there is a difference, but not for those two.

                      Full resolution image looks worse than the one taken without zoom on 8MP mode. On the viewfinder.

                      Besides, just compare the camera with the same settings while zoomed and non zoomed. It’s obvious that you can hide the differences if you change the settings.

                      Don’t you know that?

                    • RVM

                      The only reason why non-zoomed PureView picture looks better is that it uses postprocessing (oversampling) to get better looking image. However, raw image taken from sensor have same quality as zoomed-in image. U can basicly do the same with zoomed-in image after all.

                • swain

                  NO. These are not everything that makes the app great. These are what pureview(v1) mean. These are the capabilities where 808 excels. I don’t want manula exposure time setting as long as my phone can automatically set the exposure time, depending on light condition, to give me a nice shot.

                  • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                    Neither would I, for most cases, but unfortunately 808 can’t set the right exposure time on auto, in some cases.

                    If I need that 1/20 exposure time with max ISO in a dark environment and 808 doesn’t give it, I really can’t do anything and the picture will be ruined.

    • manu

      cant imagine of using a symbian phone anymore :D

      • swain

        You must not imagine. There won’t be any. :)

  • manu

    camera no comparo nokia is the king but htc one is an overall better smartphone than any nokia till the date.

    • ms.nokia

      where is the sense in that.

      • manu

        nokia 920 is outdated compared to htc one.maybe camera is better and thats it.

        • Bassman

          Outdated? In what sense? The One may have cock-waving rights in term of the processor amd ram but I think calling the 920 ‘outdated’ is a tad unfair. I had a play with a GS3 a Note 2 and a 920 yesterday. Despite all that quadcore goodness the GS3 stuttered when swiping throught the homescreens and even nung a few times, same with the Note. The 920 was smooth as silk. Wouldtake the 920 any day.

  • http://www.mycellife.net Bradley

    When I heard HTC diss the 808 I thought to myself ‘what the heck are they doing. They better be able to back it up.’ And unsurprisingly, they didn’t. The one is like Loki and the 808 is Hulk. Well, we all know what happened when they met in Avengers

    • StaticPlaya

      puny god!

    • http://aligonemobile.blogspot.com/ Aliqudsi

      http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17lxaa1yj8y1ngif/original.gif
      Someone needs to add a caption to this one “I AM AN ULTRAPIXEL!”
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      “Puny Ultrapixel” *laugh*

      • Nabkawe

        hey Ali I still wish you didn’t use the shutter key in your 720 comparison I bet it would’ve looked even better using the touch screen.

        • DesR85

          The ‘tap to focus’ feature is a mixed bag, and still is in WP8. I remember doing it a few times (both the 800 and 920) and a number of times, the white balance is off. It’s much better on the 920, but sometimes it is off.

          So I’d understand the use of the shutter key on the 720 as he is comparing the best picture between it and the HTC One.

  • ms.nokia

    but wait for the HTC One.1 ……. it’s got a 2MP “Super-Ultra-Atom-Pixel” Camera sensor.

    • jjkj

      nice one. That’s all they can do.

  • Vineet

    The problem with their “ultra”pixels was it was pure marketing speak with no technical advancement.

    At first, I thought (due to rumour speculation) that it was a Foveon type sensor or some other technical breakthrough, what they released however, was a vanilla 4 MegapPixel camera, like 10 years ago in cheap compact point and shoot cams.

    Basically, in my very limited understanding.

    Sensor size = pixel count (megapixels) * pixel size

    Where for years OEMs were fooling consumers by artificially bumping up pixel count whilst keeping the same sensor sizes (thereby reducing pixel size and consequently increasing noise and decreasing low light sensitivity)

    HTC just figured out a NEW way to fool consumers. They dropped the pixel count and increased the pixel size. So yes now you have more light per pixel but then you take a resolution and detail hit.

    Basically, for any real improvements, you need to increase the Left hand side there (Sensor size) instead of playing with values on the right hand side (increasing one and decreasing the other).

    There is a magic sweet spot of about 5-8 MP for large A4 print size photos (or photos displayed on a 15″ screen. Beyond this, you hit law of diminishing returns for average sensor sizes. So fix the MP count at 5-8 MP and start increasing the sensor size and granting all of the extra room to the size of the pixels.

    The photos the HTC One takes are pretty normal…..for a 1/3″ sensor. Play with the numbers of the right as much as you like OEMs, but that is about the quality you can expect from a 1/3″ sensor.

    In fact lets take it to an extreme and have one single massive huge ultra-mega-kilo pixel. No noise, max light collected per pixel. So hows the monochrome single colour image looking now?

    • imcoolerthanjay

      Nicely explained there :D HTC might even take your last statement seriously.

    • dss

      Ya.. I think the N8 sensor cut into 5-8Mpix would be perfect, that way you don’t have to do a big hump like on the 808.

      At least until we get to some newer sensor tech where pixel sized don’t matter, and we can have perfect pixels :)

    • mirco

      Sorry, but I have to disagree here. From a point of “per pixel quality” the only thing that matters is the pixel size and even more the technology behind it (the large pixels of a N95 were obviously worse than the smaller ones of the N8, for example). The actual size of the sensor only matters when it comes to other aspects like for example depth of field. In this way the 808 is just a shoter with 1.3µm pixels like the 920.

      The difference between the 808 (in 5MP mode) and the HTC One is obviously the fact that the HTC is let down by subpar image processing and maybe weaker lens.

      • Vineet

        Pictures are never made up one pixel though, so per pixel quality is possibly the least important metric in defining image quality.

        If it was, ideally all cameras would do best with just a single pixel, or maybe 3 (for Bayer interpolation) one red, one green, one blue.

        While HTC hasn’t veered too far away from the resolution sweet spot for sensors and lenses that can be fit into small thin phone bodies, they would take some sort of hit on images taken in bright daylight relative to competitors.

        Going back to the equation, you can play with the values on the right as much as you’d like but it will always be a compromise. Only when you start improving the sensor can you also improve pixel sizes without compromise

        • mirco

          The noise level of a CCD/CMOS is not defined by the overall size of the sensor but by the pixel size and their technology. It is too simple to explain picture quality only from the size of the sensor. Again, the size doesn’t affect the signal quality but things like depth of field for a given aperture size.

          Also, if you would agree that 5MP on the 808 is enough then you cannot say that 4MP on the HTC is far to less.

          Again, the HTC One is not let down by the fact that it has a small sensor with large pixels but more reasonably because of a worse lens system and subpar image processing.

          • Vineet

            I agree mostly with what you’re saying but I think we’re stating things tangential to each other here.

            Sensor size is not the only thing that defines image quality but is a better indicator than either the resolution or pixel size. Bigger sensors all the bigger pixels you want *without* compromising on resolution.

            In bright daylight outdoor pics (the kind most tech sites use in their reviews apart from low light n close ups), the noise will cease to be an issue and the HTC will look bad thanks to its lower resolution n level of detail.
            Isn’t that true?

            Certainly it doesn’t have the image processing or lens quality of Nokias and that too contributes to the worse quality (almost certainly in a bigger way) but right now I’m only attacking their “ultrapixel” marketing and their assertion that fewer, larger pixels are always better.

            Nokia 808 does not actually have 5 MP, it has 41, those 5 resulting megapixels are not composed of 8 pixels each but rather are a result of the merging. Pureview is a algorithm, sampling and technical breakthrough that HTC has not implemented. HTC has *just* 4 regular vanilla pixels

            Pureview is a godmode cheatcode that Nokia created.
            Its 5 is not comparable to anyone else’s 5.

            • mirco

              I think we get together in this way. Especially their marketing really sucks, yes. However, I appreciate their approach to go for a lower resolution in favour of better low light quality while trying to maintain the small form factor… in the end they have to sell a mainstream phone and that has to be thin right now. It’s always about the compromises, isn’t it?

              Let’s say that the approach is reasonable but they could have executed better. And as I said, I think we could have a common point now.

      • dss

        The 808 shoots at over 3 microns @ 5mpix ..

        • mirco

          And the HTC One has 2µm pixels which are not composed by several small pixels, so what?

          I do not say that the camera of the One is better than the 808’s camera, which it obviously isn’t. All I say is that the size of a sensor is not a measure of picture quality by definition.

          • AreOut

            So nothing, even regular thin 8/13 MP phones produce better pictures than HTC One. Ultrapixels means really nothing, and low light performance is better because of its OIS not because of ultrapixels(OK maybe they contribute 3-4%…at most).

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              It’s all about marketing. Just like with PureView. Nokia pretty much failed with marketing.

              Currently those thin phones with 8MP cameras produce good enough pictures and there are still left lots of software tricks to boost up the image quality. Not in post but on device.

              • AreOut

                Yes they failed with marketing, they didn’t market 808 at all and it still sells well and will sell for another 3-4 years at least because there will be no better cameraphone.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  Actually Nokia did market 808.

                  808 is definitely not selling that well.

                  Example?

                  One of the biggest retailers in Finland has been selling only few dozen of 808 phones in the last 3 months. That’s not much. And I’m not even sure if a few dozen is an overestimate.

                  If it was selling, they would have been selling more of those.

                  Besides, how can it sell that well if Nokia stops the production?

                  I wouldn’t be surprised if the 808 sold only 200 000 units in total.

                  • RVM

                    Nokia did market 808. But not even 1% as much as they did with Lumia phones.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Just like you said, Nokia did market 808. Just not as much as Lumia.

                      However they marketed PureView quite much and failed miserably on marketing.

                    • RVM

                      Dunno, i have never seen a single ad about PureView in my country, neither on internet.

                      Oh and btw, they still did pretty good comparing to famous Apple Maps.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I have seen several PureView ads. Maybe it’s different in Finland.

                      What are you comparing to Apple Maps? I don’t really know those because I don’t use them that much and never have been using too much even Google Maps on my iPhone.

                      You see, with iPhone I have a freedom of choice and I can use almost any map I want to. I’m not locked with one or two maps provider.

                    • RVM

                      You’re not locked with one or two maps provider on Symbian either.

                      Apple Maps ? Just the fail level.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I have more alternatives on the iPhone.

                      Are you really trying to compare Apple Maps to PureView? Do you know that Apple Maps are really about maps and locations and not a camera feature?

                    • RVM

                      U may have more map choices, too bad u can’t even properly use your maps while in airplane mode.

                      Oh and btw, I was really not comparing maps to camera.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I can use the maps I have selected for my iPhone, while on airplane mode. No problems.

                      What was the deal with talking about maps then?

                    • RVM

                      There are issues with gps locking while in airplane mode on iphone 4s.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I have used GPS on the airplane mode, but just for the curiosity.

                      But why would you actually do that? I rarely have to navigate in an airplane or inside hospital.

                      I may have to navigate without internet connection but that’s a different story.

                      In what kind of situation are you navigating with airplane mode?

                    • RVM

                      In case that u’re on hiking trip for longer time and want to conserve your battery for gps tracking instead of wasting it for other connections.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Apparently you are weeks in the forest. Never happened to me.

                      I have battery left on my iPhone when I have a situation like that. GPS has never been a problem for me in situations like that.

                      So, it must be one of the niches.

                    • RVM

                      Several hours of GPS are enough for iPhone to run out of battery. What is even worse, is that u can’t change your battery for other.

                      I’m not surprised it never happened to u, since u’re wasting your lifetime whining on this blog, instead of going out. Considering how many people use Sports Tracker, Endomondo or other similar apps, it’s far from being a niche. Unlike your “manual exposure time setting” requirement.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Several hours of GPS will take out the battery on 808 just like it does the trick on 4S.

                      Didn’t you know that? Amazing that you didn’t!

                      And no, we were not talking about changing batteries.

                      Going into airplane mode changes very little if you keep the GPS on for hours so that’s pretty much irrelevant.

                      Apparently it’s you who doesn’t go out because you didn’t know this basic stuff.

                    • RVM

                      Actually iPhone is known for pretty bad GPS battery efficiency (and i’m talking here about my friends experiences). 808 is much better in this regard.

                      Not being able to turn off other connections is really a shame. Especially if u’re in mountains were connection is scarce, so your GSM module tries really hard to connect all the time. Not being able to change your batteries doesn’t help either.

  • Grendell

    The Verge was wrong. The statement should read Nokia has produced the greatest cameraphone YET AGAIN! It did with the N8, the N82 etc. the takaway there being that Nokia HABITUALLY does this.

  • stylinred

    I found it interesting that the reviewer didn’t mention the 920 or any nokia device for that matter in his written review
    he did make a quick pip of it in the video where iirc he says the One’s low light is as good as the 920

  • http://ibat400.tumblr.com Al Reynolds
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  • correct

    Right on cue, some troll with a long incomprehensible Finnish-imitation name posting as usual about how “superior” the 4S camera software is, and what a big “flaw” the 808 has when zooming in. Of course as always he conveniently forgets to mention that using zoom on ANY smartphone will result in MUCH WORSE results than the 808.

    Definitely he must be getting paid per post. I’ve never seen anyone so dedicated in their trolling, even amongst the Meego and Symbian fanatics.

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      Surely the camera software on a 4S is not better if there are no apps installed.

      I don’t think most of the smartphones are claimed to have a lossless zoom. That’s just something that 808 fails to deliver. It’s not lossless even while Nokia claims it is.

      It’s really interesting to see how Nokia fans just can’t take any real critic. Not speaking up in 2007-2010 resulted Nokia to collapse with Symbian. Nokia fans just praising Nokia are hurting the company.

      Do you want just to praise Nokia and never see the flaws even when they are obvious for people not living in the Nokia tale?

      • correct

        That’s all irrelevant to ask right now. There are even MORE important questions to ask right now, such as:

        How much do you get paid per post?
        How long do you intend to continue trolling about Nokia’s claims, whether real or imagined, about the 808?
        How many more ways will you invent to continue to criticize the 808’s camera, which is by far it’s biggest strength, a camera which the competition doesn’t even come close to overall?

        • mirco

          I love the internet, really. Somebody has a different opinion => must be a paid poster or astroturfer.

          Where is your problem? The 808 doesn’t have exposure control, right? It should have it and there is no reason why not. Heck, it is a device for imaging enthusiasts so why not have all the possible settings like a dedicated camera? If somebody claims that changing the ISO settings is equivalent, then she/he has no idea.

          • correct

            Please, grow up and pay attention. He’s been trolling here for months about the exact same thing *over and over and over*.

            This is FAR different than simply having a contrary opinion. I would highly recommend you look up the definition and meaning of trolling, because what he has been doing is exactly that.

            I must admit I am guilty of feeding this troll sometimes, as well as others on this blog.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              I guess everyone over and over blaming Elop for destroying Nokia is a troll?

              How about people repeating that they don’t like WP?

              You sure have a nice attitude.

              • ULTIMATEANTITROLL

                YES, ALL THESE ELOP HATING F*GGOTS are TROLLS!!! LIKE YOU !!!

          • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

            Very well said.

            Some people just can’t accept different opinions.

            Big sensor is supposed to help you in dark, but without exposure control lot of the advantage is gone. It’s just not possible to capture the moment when the camera either uses too long exposure time or the ISO is wrong.

            How am I supposed to take a decent picture without using the flash when the correct setting would be 1/20 shutter time and max ISO?

            Now it’s just not possible if the device decides that with max ISO the exposure time is something else than 1/20.

  • DesR85

    I saw the confirmed retail price for this phone and it is at RM 2,299 in Malaysia, similar to the Galaxy Note 2. Pretty bold for a high-end phone with a mediocre camera.

  • john

    this guy is a hater lot to say about 808 did you ever use one camera apps ya its lacking a bit but what it does it does best and that stings you right haters point is the phone is old and nothing cant match and wont match for years windows will grow and grow and one day it will grow enuff for me to switch

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      Is this “My camera and multitasking blog dedicated for praising everything Nokia does” or MNB?

      Does 808 have a great camera? Yes it does.

      Does it fail to deliver great quality in some situations? Yes it does. That happens because of the lack of the quality applications.

      I really would like to see all the great features it could have. Now, you don’t want that? Why? Why do you want to prevent people from having all the great features there could be?

      • RVM

        Every smartphone on every platform fail to deliver great quality in some situations. Including iPhone.

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          True.

          And 808 fails in certain situations just because it lacks those settings needed for the pictures.

          If only it had those settings, it would shine! But it doesn’t because those incompetent designers thought that it would be a good idea to put in a great sensor and leave out the most important settings.

          • RVM

            Once again… u’re the only person i have ever seen complaining about these. I have read several reviews, even DPReview one, and no one have ever mentioned it. U may be just… weird :)

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              Maybe they don’t appreciate real world usage.

              Or maybe you have misunderstood something.

              Reviewers are not Gods telling the absolute truth.

              • RVM

                U obviously think u’re one though.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  I know what I need for taking at least decent pictures.

                  Are you suggesting that it’s not possible that someone would need a setting for exposure time?

                  If not, why does those DSLR’s have that setting? Just for the laughs? Are you suggesting that no one really need it on a DLSR?

                  • RVM

                    Every single device (including DLSRs) has some features lacking. Sometimes it’s a compromise needed for other, more important features.

                    From what i could see, most users are able to make great pictures with 808, in different conditions. There might be two or tree, including u, which complains about lack of exposure time setting, but huga majority is fine with exposure compensation setting.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Sure.

                      Still 808 doesn’t have setting for exposure time and that cripples it in certain situations.

                      Most people are fine with auto mode and that’s why iPhone or 920 or maybe even HTC One delivers good enough quality for them.

                      However, a serious camera phone should have a basic setting like exposure time.

                    • AreOut

                      OK go and produce a phone with that setting and make moneyz, simple eh.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I already have 4S. I can set the exposure time on that device.

                      I really wonder why I can’t have the same feature on 808. Maybe Nokia’s camera experts were a bit incompetent at the time.

                    • RVM

                      maybe they just made some calculations and realized it’s not worth to implement for a single whiner.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Actually that’s not what happened.

                      The Nokia development team commented that they just didn’t bother to implement the feature. So, they were not that professional after all, making a decision like that.

                      I just wonder why did MNB have post about setting the exposure time with ISO settings if I was the one needing the setting for the exposure time?

                      http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/26/nokia-808-pureview-tips-part-3-how-to-capture-low-light-pictures/

                      I guess quite many people would like to have that and you are just too old school Nokia fan to admit it.

                    • RVM

                      I can’t see a single word about needing to manually set exposure time. Setting exposure compensation or ISO are traditional ways to do it and that’s what is explained in that article.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Nokia fans must be really ignorant if they think that changing the ISO value is the right way of changing the exposure time.

                      In than link, this pretty much describes using ISO for allowing the change of exposure time “To allow exposure times of up to 2.7 seconds and to take “noise free” pictures in low light conditions, you can manually set the ISO low (e.g. 50)”

                      Why bother making posts like that in MNB if the setting for exposure time is irrelevant?

                    • RVM

                      Setting exposure time is not irrelevant. And there are two different methods to do it on 808. Either by setting exposure compensation or ISO.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      If it’s not irrelevant, why not having the actual setting for exposure time?

                      Changing ISO settings is not really a true setting for exposure time. Why? While it does change the exposure time, it changes also ISO setting. What if I wanted to change exposure time but not the ISO setting?

                      Do you have any idea of what the exposure compensation actually does?

                    • RVM

                      Exposure compensation allows u to bias your exposure time setting. If u set your ISO setting, exposure time will be set automatically. However, if u want higher or lower exposure, u can use exposure compensation to either increase or deacrease it. U have to get used to it, but that’s also the case with direct exposure time setting.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      So, how do I set 1/20s exposure time and let the camera to select the appropriate ISO settings? Or how do I lock the exposure time to 1/20s while locking the ISO on a certain value?

                      How do I know, before taking the picture, what is the actual exposure time?

  • john

    lol then stick to ur apps to try to compensate for ur cam still wont get shots then 808 produce and that fact lol hu cares symbian is dead so dont expect more wait lack of apps really lol wait for eos and windows to grow and then ull have apps and 41 mp hu care that ther no apps the platform is dead its juss the fact it still ahead of everone else wen it comes to taking pics something all the apps in the world cant change

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      Actually, apps change while not everything but something.

      I have both 808 and iPhone.

      In certain close ups 808 is not a match to the iPhone. This is unfortunately the case. Or maybe someone can fiddle with the setting better than me but it seems impossible to get the 808 to beat it. And I take the pictures without a tripod. Maybe someone could try out with one.

      I use iPhone for saving the everyday moments and 808 for some occasions where it works well.

      I understand that you don’t know what you are talking about because you haven’t seen those apps in action. Or compared the results to those 808 can produce.

      • AreOut

        You are still not tired of lying that you have 808? Why you don’t show us your pictures made with it?!

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          Because I don’t want to embarrass it?

          It sure would fail against 4S in certain close-ups.

          • RVM

            Weirdly, no one have ever noticed that, only u. All those comparisions and reviews were probably not up to your quality standards.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              Maybe they haven’t used the latest apps?

              Do you have iPhone? Do you own 808?

              Have you tried it out?

              I have.

              • RVM

                Dude, your iPhone 4S camera is simply bad, no matter what apps u use.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  I guess you don’t have 808.

                  We could test the cameras.

                  You really don’t understand what you are talking about.

                  • RVM

                    I have 808 and my collegue has iPhone 4S. Here u have some comparision:

                    http://i48.tinypic.com/vzdjsl.png

                    Note that iPhone 4S was even worse in non-HDR mode.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I see. So I should travel to that place and take a picture for a comparison?

                      Besides, I was not talking about the default camera app on iPhone.

                      How about taking a picture of something we both have? Like a picture of a coin? After all, what I earlier said was “It sure would fail against 4S in certain close-ups.”

                      Do you have 1 euro coin or something else? Some US coin?

                    • RVM

                      I’m talking about default camera app, because that’s what 99% of iPhone users use.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      And I was talking about the camera apps you can get for the 4S.

                      “Actually, apps change while not everything but something.”

                      “Maybe they haven’t used the latest apps?”

                      So, you are saying that you don’t dare to compare 808 to 4S if 4S uses those quality improving camera apps?

                      This pretty much proves my point.

                      Thanks.

                    • RVM

                      There were plenty comparision on the internet between 808 and iP4S, and u probably know who was the winner.

                      Comparing two shots which were made under different light conditions is waste of time. If there are those great applications, that allows u to significantly improve picture quality on iPhone 4S, there have to be some comparisions or reviews of it somewhere on the internet. Maybe even comparisions with other smartphones under same lightning conditions.

                    • RVM

                      comparing 2 shots, which would be made*

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      So, you don’t dare to take that picture. You are really afraid of 808 losing on this one?

                      Just take it with the best possible settings you can use and post the picture after you have taken it.

                      I don’t care if those sites have failed to take reasonable pictures with downloadable apps.

                      Just take one with 808 and I’ll post one taken with the 4S. I guess 8MP is fine or would you like to have 2MP?

                      Let’s just see who gets most out of a coin.

                      Do you have 1 euro coin? No? Something else? I may have that too.

                      But hey, maybe you don’t dare to take that picture?

                    • RVM
                  • ULTIMATEANTITROLL

                    Ouch. Truth hurts troll doesn’t it?

                  • ULTIMATEANTITROLL

                    You’re one of the BIGGEST TROLLS I’ve ever seen on this site.

                    BURN IN TROLL HELL HAHAHAHA.

                    And you’re going to get absolutely ZERO satisfaction from your trolling, because I’m not pissed off, I’m LAUGHING at your comments.

                    FACT IS TROLL, like others have mentioned, the 808 SMOKES the 4S in whatever HDR mode you put it in.

                    You have to be either a troll, suck at cameras, or be living in an alternate reality to even think that the 4S takes better shots than the 808.

                    • AreOut

                      He is so keen to show us how moronic iphone users are :D With his stupidities he has definitely done more marketing for 808 than Nokia itself :D

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I was not talking about the default camera app.

                      Sorry, you failed to understand that.

                    • RVM

                      Default camera app is what 99% of users use. So that’s what matters the most.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      I have pointed out that I have been talking about the downloadable camera apps.

                      I was talking about what can be done with the iPhone or with 808. That includes all the apps for iPhone and all the applications for 808.

                    • AreOut

                      well obviously noone care about those apps except trolls like you

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      Apparently you don’t want to care about them because 808 just can’t match or surpass 4S in every possible situation if the 4S uses those apps.

                      That’s the reason.

                    • AreOut

                      the thing is noone cares for your imaginary situations

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      They may be imaginary situations for you if you have all the time in the world to take every photo you ever take.

                      For the rest of us, no.

                    • RVM

                      Sorry, but you’re alone.

                    • ULTIMATEANTITROLL

                      You just got caught in your own web of lies TROLL!

                      You say regular people have no time for adjusting settings, YET you say 3rd-party camera apps are important for regular customers.

                      WRONG TROLL, that MAKES NO SENSE!

                      If people have to time to fiddle with settings, then they certainly have NO TIME to be downloading extra camera apps! If they have the time to download extra camera apps, then they would ALSO have time to adjust manual settings, PERIOD!

                      Using ONLY default camera apps, which is what MOST PEOPLE use, and WHAT MATTERS MOST, the 808 SMOKES the 4S. PERIOD!!!!

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      808 can’t just be the best in every possible situation like you say.

                      Sorry.

                    • ULTIMATEANTITROLL

                      Seek psychiatric help.

  • john

    guy ur best app still wont take better pics than the 808 ur screen is prob better but not the photos u dont have 808 that for sure i phone apps are you for real that all u have to say look ur gay phone with best apps wont match the 808 cam lol iphone really iphone take good pics but not like the 808 ur the only dummy that say dumb thing like that ur apps on ur phone will take u so far ive seen wat the iphone does and old symbian iphone bearly matches n8 o wait ur apps might save u

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

      Gay phone?

      Really?

      You Nokia fans really are so sophisticated.

      Just show me a picture of an 1 euro coin taken with the 808.

      • AreOut

        if you have 808 as you say just go and get the picture of the coin and show us the difference ;)

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

          I could do that.

          Unfortunately I bet you would start claiming that I just can’t use the device because it will lose so badly.

          And of course you can’t take that picture because you don’t have 808.

          • AreOut

            it’s up to you to prove that you have the device, as you are the only one having problems with it :)

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

              I’m not talking about my device but only about the quality of the 808 vs. 4S in certain situations.

              I’ll post a picture taken with 4S after RVM (or you perhaps) post a comparable one taken with the 808.

              Why I don’t take that picture with my 808? Simple. Because you would start claiming that I just can’t use the device because 808 will lose so badly.

              Comparable picture is for example one taken from a 1 euro coin or something similar most people have access to.

              Unfortunately it seems that RVM doesn’t dare to take the picture.

              • RVM

                How would u ensure that we will would take such pictures under same lightning conditions ?

                And, btw, what are u waiting for ? U talk so much, u challenged me, but u still didn’t post a picture…

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                  Just use the best possible lightning conditions you can have with the 808.

                  I don’t post it first because I’m pretty sure that you would not post an inferior picture resulting with no picture at all after my post.

                  • RVM
                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista

                      That’s a nice shot. May I ask how did you manage to get 8MP image with 808 while zooming so close to the coin? With my 808 I really can’t zoom that close to the object if it’s as small as that coin is.

                      Depth of the field looks a bit narrow on you 808 compared to my 808. I suppose you didnät use any additional optics, so how did you manage to do that?

                      Unfortunately I was not able to upload the original because imageshack doesn’t allow me to upload 15.9M images. Anyway, here is a crop from the original.

                      http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/iphone4s1eurocrop.png/

                      Apparently we had slightly different coins for the task. I’ll have look if I can find another one just like yours.

  • john

    lol this guy bashing the best camera phone to make himself feel better about his iphone lol no one care about crapple lol i never bought a phone and returned it faster than i did with iphone lol go get a life lol

  • babun

    ENOUGH WITH THIS THRASH TALK…..i own a 808 pureview myself and it is without a doubt the best cameraphn out there,and pureview technology was revolutionary 4 sure bt i hav used htc one 4 abt a mnth,and evn though m nt goin to compare it’s camera with the one of my 808 pureview bt to be honest it is pretty damn good for a 4 “ULTRAPIXEL” camera sensor especially in dark(in day light it is jst normal,nothin extraordinary)it evn beat the 13 mp camera of S4

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