Lumia 900 sales Exceeding Expectations.

| April 12, 2012 | 298 Replies

According to President of At&t the current amount of sales for the Lumia 900 have already exceeded their expectations; leading to multiple stores being out of stock

 Nokia’s Lumia 900 sales have exceeded expectations.
In fact, sales have been so good some stores have sold out of the device—particularly the blue variety—by Tuesday evening, only the second day of general availability.
Of course we won’t see the effect of those sales on the Q1 earning report but hopefully they’ll show the new rise of Nokia once Q2 report is out; it’s worth noting that Nokia hardly ever releases EXACT sales number outside the quarterly earnings- unlike Sammy who brags about every milestone (rightfully- I think that’s the way to do it; if your selling well show the people).
Of course considering that the Lumia 900 is At&ts biggest device launch ever it should only be expected to have exceeded expectations; but the true number will really show once the stormtrooper white is out since I’ve heard alot of people are holding out on purchasing a 900 until it’s available.

Category: Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Janne

    Damn these burning memos. Did yours burn before you got it? Nokia is dead. It isn’t selling anything… ;)

    Here’s to small good news! We can use them!

    • Patrick

      Seems like good news. The problem is we have a very dangerous race now between Nokia running out of cash and making enough Lumia sales to return to a cash positive situation.

      • Janne

        Nokia’s projected losses for Q1 and Q2 are what, two, three hundred million? They have 4,9 billion in the bank – and on-going payments from Microsoft. Right?

        I’m not saying Nokia’s situation isn’t gloomy, but it not immediately because of cash. It is because of trajectory. That is the danger certainly, which they need to reverse.

        The Symbian transition clearly failed. I doubt they will sell the 150 million of those. Now all eyes are on Lumia – was it a good move? Here’s hoping it was.

        • RJC

          “Now all eyes are on Lumia – was it a good move? Here’s hoping it was.”

          It’s already a clear fact that it wasn’t. That’s not even debatable. WP is now a giant failure. It was a failure already back in Feb 2011. Many of us were saying it, but people refused to believe what we said already back then.

          The really funny (in a sad way) thing is some people still refuse to see it. One has to be willfully blind not to see that WP strategy has been a failure and how properly fucked Nokia is. The most worrying thing is, that people inside Nokia refuse to see it and are just delusional. That can only mean Nokia’s destruction. If Elop and WP insanity still continues, the share will drop close to 2 euros. And when that share price is as low as 2 euros, Nokia will be too good a bargain to miss.

          • Dave

            You remind me of the guy complaining that everyone else is driving on the wrong side of the road ..

            • J

              …to the imaginary friend in the passenger seat.

          • http://s n8thegreat

            I often wonder, do some of you troll because:

            a.) you hate Nokia?
            b.) you’re paid to hate on Nokia?
            c.) you hate Microsoft?

            Time to get back to reality. Was Android a “failure” during its 1st 1-2 years of existence? Well according to your logic, yes it was.

            Android didn’t start to get really popular until 2 years after it was first released to market. Not until Android 2.1 and 2.2 were released did it really start to get popularity.

            Your comments are a joke. Nokia and Microsoft have had their partnership for only a little bit over a year now. You CANNOT expect Nokia to work with Microsoft on major changes to Windows Phone AND for them to introduce an amazing Windows Phone in only a year. That’s delusional. Nokia was able to develop and release the Lumia 800 in only 8 months, with the help of Compal building it. It took about a year to make the 900, which is built in-house by Nokia and it is as good as it gets for a phone running Mango 7.5.

            Windows Phone 8 will have a lot of Nokia’s input in the software, and will also give Nokia much more freedom for customizing hardware.

            Even with the 7.5 WP limitations, look at what Nokia has been able to achieve:

            1.) They made custom modifications to 7.5 to allow for LTE
            2.) They made custom modifications to allow for NFC

            7.5 didn’t have support for LTE or NFC, but Nokia has made both of those happen. The Lumia 610 with NFC is coming in a few months, running on 7.5.

            Lumia phones still don’t have full worldwide availability, and the Lumia range still does not cover all area of the smartphone market. We have to wait for Windows Phone 8 until we get to see really low end all the way to really high end Lumia phones. Only then can we start to judge whether Nokia going with WP has been a success.

            • The Game

              “1.) They made custom modifications to 7.5 to allow for LTE
              2.) They made custom modifications to allow for NFC”

              and the next step is pureview in WP, imagine a super device with LTE, NFC, pureview, micro sim and WP8…. only Nokia can…

              • http://s n8thegreat

                Exactly! There is the rumor from a few days ago that Nokia is developing a WP8 Pureview phone. That makes logic sense, as we know for a fact that there will be WP Pureview phones. Nokia basically confirmed that.

                A WP8 Pureview with dual-core or quad-core, Adreno 300 Series GPU, LTE, Pureview, Clearblack AMOLED, and NFC would be a truly high end phone, offering a number of things no Android or iPhone has. What would be even more amazing would be some surprises from Nokia, like having a full Swipe UI in WP8 or having a waterproof phone.

                • migo

                  Dual Core please. The Krait with 2 cores is on preliminary benchmarks outperforming competing quad core chips. It’s not just about the cores, that’s the same crap that people fell into with the P4 and clock speed. It’s about processor efficiency.

                  Also, I’d much rather clear black SLCD over clear black AMOLED. Sure vibrant colours are nice, but if you’re going to put in a great camera, you want natural colour reproduction.

              • migo

                I hope they keep making them without LTE as well, as that’s not available everywhere and it’s wasted hardware.

                • http://s n8thegreat

                  I believe Clearblack AMOLED will be for the high end phones. Unlikely LCD will be used for Nokia high end.

                  Yes, I do believe Nokia will continue make non-LTE variants in markets where there is no LTE, or no LTE demand. Just as Nokia does for all their special China phones, or other market phones.

                  By “high end” we are mainly talking about North America and some of the major European markets, where LTE is more widely available. This is also where it’s most important for Nokia to get a great reputation with the Lumia phones.

                  • migo

                    And it’s a pity. Clear Black LCD already gives you deeper blacks than AMOLED normally does, and you can get LCD at any resolution and screen size, whereas with AMOLED you’re only getting RGB (instead of Pentile) at 4.3″

      • Dave

        Microsoft is covering the current situation where Symbian is dropping faster than WP can compensate. This is part of the deal.

        I had a chance today to play with a Lumia 800; I have to say, it is simply gorgeous. This really is about just opening eyes and letting people see how nice WP is, I love how smooth it is and how beautifully it makes use of amoled (black background). Haven’t seen a 900 yet (Finland), does the Nokia store have any on display?

        • Jiipee

          Where did you get that info! There is no mention of any additional compensation inte official Nokia financial reports.

          • Dave

            There is also no need for additional compensation at this point. It is purely my own interpretation of the agreement, we’re talking about peanut amounts to Microsoft, with their entire mobile future staked on it. Microsoft pledged to push at least 5 years, of which we’re now in year two. It is my guess they told Nokia ‘we’ve got your back, just bring out awesome devices, don’t worry about some few million here or there’, or at least that’s how I can partly rationalize Feb 11 :)

            But strictly speaking there is not much official information, so everyone is free to believe what they like.

            • Jiipee

              Quite the opposite. Nokia is stating the amounts that they will receive as support from MS. I dont believe any other direct investments from them. Otherwise Nokia would be breaking the rules of stock exchange and Finnish legislation.

              On the other hand MS can ofcourse pay AT&T money to sell WP handsets. I also believe that moat of the L900 compensation is in the end paid by MS since they are the ones supplying the software that does not work

              • noki

                People think business can be done like that, MICROSOFT can’t simply give money away to cover nokias losses, that would be completely illegal, Microsoft would have to buy nokia to do that and even there it would not be that simple.

                I certainly hope its Microsoft that is paying the extra 100$ rebate to AT&T

                • Dave

                  Yes there is absolutely no way Microsoft and Nokia can have any possible construction of mutual support, instead, Microsoft is going to idly sit by and watch the mobile market pass them by for the third time.

                  But according to you, that’s great because the world is just dying for more S60 devices.

                  • noki

                    “But according to you, that’s great because the world is just dying for more S60 devices.”

                    were in the name of (insert random insult here) have i said such a thing???

                    “Microsoft is going to idly sit by and watch the mobile market pass them by for the third time”

                    so its a case of “third time’s the charm” good to know

                    • Dave

                      Because the market share dropping faster than expected consists of dirt cheap S60 devices being replaced by dirt cheap Android devices.

                      Feb 11 happened 6 months before even Anna, I don’t understand why people think that all those cheap S60′s were going to convert to S^3 devices, today a 700 with Belle is not all that bad, but now think back to last year pre-Anna.

                • Jesse

                  Technically Microsoft can pay Nokia for any services it wishes to pay them for. They can also buy/invest in future developments like they do often with Intel, NVideo and AMD.

                  If Microsoft wanted to pay Nokia a billion dollars to make a robotic hand puppet they could very well do so. Stock holders would be mad but it is not against any laws.

                  • noki

                    of course it is, the money would need to be accountable, and the supposed “robotic hand puppet” would have to be created and any extra unused money would need to be returned, this are publicly traded companies, its not that simple.

                    The examples you gave are good as Intel AMD and OEMS do really have to spend that money in the areas Microsoft payed them to be spent, also usualy Microsoft is forced to ofer the same exact deals to all OEM’s.

                    • Jesse

                      The money is accountable though, that is the point. And no the money would not have to be returned it would be profit. Nokia could sell each phone for a million dollars and if someone wanted to pay that Nokia would keep the money. Microsoft is the customer here and can overpay nokia for their services if they so wish.

    • esbo

      Hope that Nokia is makeing some money too with Lumia 900.. And wasn’t there very similar news when 800 was launched im the UK?

      Stock price is now so low, that anything can happen. Nokia knows how well 900 does and still they say that Q2 will be as bad as Q1.

      • Janne

        I doubt Nokia is making much money from Lumia 900 in Q2. I wonder if AT&T will pay the subsidies only later, as the contracts roll on?

        And considering AT&T sold 1,8 million non-iPhones in Q4, I doubt Lumia 900 can add *that* much to Q2. It will be a slow game even if it works.

        But, a sustained success in the U.S. would be very good for mindshare and probably stock-price too. Lumia 900 is very important in that.

        Apollo is too, of course, but that is still months away. Lumia 900 is paving the way – or not. That is the exciting question.

        • Heron

          Some company stripped the Lumia 900 and worked out the component cost to be $209, and apparently includes the licensing fee. Considering this retails for $449…I think Nokia’s ok.

          • Janne

            Of course they will make money in the end. All I was speculating is: since most will be bought subsidized, will AT&T pay the whole price for the phones in Q2, or will payments for the phone be spaced out over the 2 year contract?

            • frmespoo

              Im pretty sure that AT&T buys those phones first from the manufacter(Nokia) and then does a credit offer for customers(Two years contract is basically a credit, you pay the phone in smaller parts during those years). I don’t think that Nokia wants to take that credit risk that a two year contract is including.

              Lumia 800&710 avarage price for Nokia was 220€. When 2 million devices was sold, that makes the total sell of lumias on Q1 440 million. Avarge price of 900 should be higher and that way good Lumia 900 sales can possibly influence Nokias profits

          • Viipottaja

            There are MANY costs after the component costs within Nokia (R&D, admin, legal etc. etc.). Let’s just say those are 25% (something my company uses as a rule of thumb for overheads). That takes you to $250 or so. However, more importantly, Nokia users distributors. They take their cut. The retailers take their cut (not sure what that would be in electronics but e.g. in croceries the rule of thumb would be 30%). The recommended retail price is usually a bit higher than the actual retail. So, in the end, Nokia’s margin is MUCH lower.

            If they are getting a 20% margin it would extremely good. But I suspect its closer to something like 12%.

            • migo

              That’s still a minimum of $96 million for Nokia, and since it’s a flagship device, AT&T definitely ordered more than 2 million, so we’re looking realistically at at least a few hundred million dollars in revenue to Nokia just from the Lumia 900 on AT&T, and the marketing there will rub off elsehwere in the world, so they can sell non LTE Lumia 900s knowing that there has already been a lot of positive press and knowing they don’t have to do much further R&D.

          • noki

            209$ was the materials and assemblage costs you need to had the 25$ to microsoft, plus the marketing money, returned phones expenses, sport, etc etc etc..

        • migo

          Selling non-iPhones in Q4 is going to be hard, because that’s when the new iPhone launched. Any other time in the year it’s going to be a lot easier.

          • http://s n8thegreat

            Except Nokia will have several WP8 phones available as well, and WP8 looks much different to iOS. Also the Lumia phones look different to any Androids or iPhone so I think they will do fine.

            Don’t forget a lot of Apple fans like the Lumias already because the unique software and unique hardware design.

            • migo

              That’s true, but even so, Q4 is when a lot of iPhone users have their contracts coming up and they’re ready to upgrade to another iPhone. Not everyone will do it, but it’s the most competetive time for any other smartphone.

    • JamesSB

      The Nokia Lumia 900 topping the Amazon chart is a big deal. Not only being number 1 is big, the Lumia 900 has the top two spots.
      1. Nokia Lumia 900 – black
      2. Nokia Lumia 900 – cyan

    • So Vatar

      What is the number of Luminas sold?
      What was the expectation?

      I expected Nokia shares to close below $4 today. But at $4.23 it exceeded my expectations. By far!

      • migo

        You’d be stupid to think AT&T would have expectations of only a few sales.

    • masood.alkhter

      Nokia are the best lol lol

    • Leopoldo

      I don’t want to be negative but:
      …Nokia confirms software bug in its recently launched Lumia 900 Windows Phone smartphone that prevented users from connecting with the network. The mobile giant is compensating user’s sentiments with a credit of $100 to all Lumia 900 owners even if some of them are not affected by the bug.

      nokia lumia 900

      The $100 will be automatically credited to AT&T customers’ bills and will be effective for any other potential buyers too who buys the phone by April 21, 2012.

      On a two-year data contract the cost of the phone was calculated to $100 on AT&T network. With this $100 credit by Nokia, the cost of the Lumia 900 hence becomes zero, which means free for early adopters.

      According to Nokia, the data bug is due to memory management issue and is only related to software, not the hardware part or to AT&T’s network.

      Fixing the problem at users end is easy. One can swap the phone at an AT&T store or can download an updated software through Zune on or around 16th April.

      Both AT&T and Nokia are putting the handset to a great hype with few huge marketing campaigns such as a series of TV commercials featuring Chris Parnell and promotion in Times Square.

      A report published on Ad Age, AT&T is spending $150 million on a Lumia 900 campaign with a theme “the smartphone beta test is over.” Unfortunately, the slogan betrays its meaning in the light of the phone’s launch bug.

      Well, Nokia managed to turn bad name down by granting credits to users and getting even more promotion thereafter for so far one of the best Windows Phones. …

      This above in general mean Nokia pays 1$ for using Lumia… And this is proof how bad choice is WIndows in mobile, does not work. Nokia N9 works perfectly.

  • http://xzis.me/ xizzhui

    Same appeared earlier…
    http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Nokia+Lumia+710/news.asp?c=38276

    Elop said the same in mwc, while a huge number of 2M were sold in Q1.

    • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslik

      While even I feel Lumias are not selling as expected in all countries because of faster than expected Symbian demise and lower than expected conversion rate from Symbian to WP, I consider clear this is not the biggest problem for Nokia.

      It is the free fall of Symbian (definitely accelerated by the burning memo, but even without it it would happen, just somewhat slower) and faster than expected conversion to “mature” smartphones hiting Asha sales.

  • larryg968

    How many times have we seen stuff like this only for nokia to report lackluster sales.

    I wouldnt hold my breath. Also, i’d imagine all the WP fans who’ve been waiting will buy this device so no surprise there. The problem is convincing the generally public to buy the phone, not people who’ve been waiting since last february.

    • inept

      No doubt. It seems like every single device Nokia has released lately has exceeded expectations. The bar keeps getting set lower and lower.

    • Keith

      For the first time, it’s definitely more than WP fans buying this. No other Windows Phone has come close to a start like this. It’s selling out of AT&T stores and is doing amazing on Amazon and the reviewers are just loving it and many are giving up their iPhones and Androids for the 900.

      By far the biggest thing holding Windows Phone back to date has been the frontline employees in the retail stores–about 98% of them would steer customers away from WP but I’m reading a lot of anecdotal stories about AT&T employees loving, backing and recommending the 900 to walk-ins. True many are not but even if 30% are that is almost 30% more than were before. We haven’t reached a tipping point by any means and I never expected we would until Apollo but I’m beginning to hope a little bit that the 900 could be the tipping point for WP.

      • ashok pai

        smart move giving at&t employees the phones first. so they wont give any negative reviews to windows phones :)

        • migo

          Yep, that’s been the thing with Windows Phone from the start. Get it into someone’s hands and they love it.

        • arts

          I don’t know what world you live in.

    • migo

      1 million Lumia sales in a quarter they hadn’t planned to launch in isn’t lackluster, it’s phenomenal. Doubling sales the next quarter isn’t lackluster either, it’s a 100% increase. You just like raining on the parade because you can’t admit you were wrong and that the Feb 11 announcement was the right call.

      • http://s n8thegreat

        Perfectly said. Notice how past few days, on this news story here on mynokiablog and the Q2 earnings story, there are hundreds of comments. It seems like the trolls and shills and haters are desperately falling over themselves yelling and screaming that Nokia is dead, while Lumia sales are increasing not decreasing, and Lumia phones per device make more profit than Symbian phones.

  • Viipottaja

    Got mine yesterday! :) Went to one store and they were out of stock on the blue one, so had to go to another store.

    Alas, I was struck today by the loss-of-data-connectivity bug.. :( I’ll see if it works at home on Wifi – if not, will see if I can get a replacement tomorrow (assuming they still have the Cyan version – they only had one left after mine). If wifi works, I will keep the one I have as I already installed a number of apps. Oh well, at least I like others will get the $100 credit on my next AT&T bill so the phone will be effectively free. Plus I managed to negotiate away the $36 activation fee and got 25% off on some accessories (the rubber case and a car charger).

    May write a review after I have used it more – overall, love it. There are a number of mostly relatively small things (some things many are asking for like BT file transfer do not bother me one bit as I can only recall transferring anything over BT once or twice in my 15+ years of cell phone usage) that I do hope they will address in Apollo.

    • Harangue

      Updated software should be here on the 16th or next Monday right? Perhaps worth the wait before going through the hassle of changing devices. Or is there a very short term in which you can change devices?

      • Viipottaja

        Yeah, I know it should be out on 16th. Just that data connection is so important nowadays and the main thing I do on a phone is to surf the web. So if I can’t even use WiFi I will feel like a fish out of water for several days… I’ll get all kinds of withdrawal symptoms and nightmares etc. :D :p

        On a more serious note, yeah, I’ll probably wait.

        • Janne

          Congrats on the new phone! Sorry to hear about the troubles.

          On the upside, by waiting you could provide valuable information to readers here on whether or not the update works well. :)

          • Viipottaja

            Happy to be of service.. :D

            My more major niggle has actually been trying to transfer contacts from my N900 to the L900.. the Nokia Contact Transfer app does not support the N900. :( I did manage to get them transferred through the PC but frustratingly the main piece of info – mobile phone numbers of my contacts – did not transfer over… have to try again tonight. If anyone has managed to do that, tips would be welcomed.

            • Aliqudsi

              Have heard the same issues multiple times (as well as older symbian phones (s60)) god grant you patience!

              My advice is if you can synch them/load them onto your google account or Live then do so once that’s done your Lumia should automatically retrieve them from it.

            • Janne

              Have you tried syncing contacts through Google or the like?

              Yeah, it is too bad the Contact Transfer does not support N900.

              • Viipottaja

                @Aligudsi and Janne,

                yeah, I managed to import the contacts from the N900 to Windows (Vista) and then export them as CSV files to my hotmail/live account which then synced them to the phone – but not all details transferred over (i.e. the cell phone numbers).

                The Vista contact export function does not seem to work properly as I can’t actually see the exported and CVS converted file when I e.g. try to save on the desktop.

                • Rebbe

                  I had the same problem.

                  Export a csv of your hotmail contacts and compare the labels with the vista csv. The categories needs to be written exact as they are in the hotmail one otherwhise it will not add the numbers. Put your phonenumbers in the mobile phone category not in the home phone(?) because that category will not show up iin your contacts on the phone

                  Sometime you also need to change the semi-colons to commas
                  http://www.msoutlook.info/question/274

                  • Viipottaja

                    Thanks, I’ll look into it (though my problem is that the mobile phone numbers don’t transfer to my phone whereas the homenumbers do :))

            • Save on SIM

              Can’t you save the contacts on the SIM? That’s how I transferred all my contacts everytime i switched phone

              • Viipottaja

                Perhaps I am wrong but I would think the N900 non-LTE SIM would not work on the L900 (even if cut down to micro SIM size).

    • dsmobile

      You must be a really big Microsoft fanboy that you got AT&T seller to sell you that instead of ios/android :D

      • Janne

        We are all big Microsoft fanboys here! You too!

        • Jiipee

          Im not. I wish Nokia succeeds well enough with Lumia so that it still exists in two years time and they could be the ones who 1) continues to innovate 2) supports standardization so that Apple/Google/MS do force me to decide which TV, lap top, car audio, stereo, email account, bank, book, games, language I am able to use after deciding which phone I should choose.In addition i want to pay my taxes to the people supporting the system creating the devices and content, not for the corporation overruling the ‘ecosystem’ (in MS case it is not Nokia even partially btw). Now it seema that the corporations pay 3% tax to their home country and almost none in yhe countriea they do busineas in, while taking 30% “tax” in their app stores.

          Hence, all the best for Lumia and WP in the short term, farewell to Elop in his future position as change management expert at Foxconn’s manufacturing team consisting of 3 people.

          • ashok pai

            well said

          • Janne

            Well, it was… a joke. :)

            • Jiipee

              Sorry, I must have read too much of ‘ 1984′ and seen too many WPPoweruser links ;)

              • Janne

                :)

      • Viipottaja

        Will the real DSMobile stand up? Oh wait, he can’t as he has left the building.

        If you are the real one, do email my hotmail which you have.

        • reonhato

          I think he is referring to an article stating that most at&t salespersons are recommending ios and android. I believe it was on phonearena.

          i don’t believe he is dissing wp or the fans.

          • ashok pai

            which is why they gave wp7 ones to at&t employees, and once they’re happy, come out with a blitz to sell 900.

            the way things are panning is more of a desperation by both microsoft and nokia. it does not look good to be seen as desperate. if samsung can sell multiple phones from different platforms why cannot nokia do that ? right now nokia is an oem of wp7. if microsoft gives a cold shoulder to samsung / htc/ lg – they’ll stop churning out windows phones altogether – so it will be an MS/ Nokia alliance. i’m waiting for apollo and see if nokia has any preference and it manages to change the ugly tiles with something better more flexible widgets. live tiles is crap without any meaningful info being shown at a glance. right now its an apology of a widget / glorified notification centre

            • Viipottaja

              Some of the live tiles (in particular some of the 3rd party apps) do show quite a bit of info and are widgets.

              The live tiles are also shortcuts, sub-instances of apps etc.

              So they are a bit more than you give them credit for.

              Anyway, the tiles will not go away. They are part and parcel of MS new look for W8 as well. They will likely evolve (to e.g. include more of the info you would like to see, perhaps different sizing etc.), but I would be extremely surprised if they went away – even on Nokia phones.

              Btw, have not tried yet, but I gather you can delete all of them if they really do bother you that much.. :p ;)

          • Viipottaja

            Nor did I think he was. :) I was just suspecting it was not the real DSMobile based on what he had previously told me privately (and given I know for a fact there have been some DSMobile impostors here before).

    • Just Visiting

      @viipottaja…Care to share your negotiating tips regarding the activation fee waiver :)

      Congrats on your purchase. Even if you wifi doesn’t work, and if ATT doesn’t have any Cyan in stock, the fix is just a few days away; but I hope it all works out well for you.

      And looking forward to your review :)

      • Viipottaja

        I had an OLD MediaMax plan which I was trying to grandfather. Well, that did not fly. The rep called some customer service line. Did not fly. Then _I_ called the same line and “started getting agitated after having been told earlier I could keep my existing dataplan”. So then the girl on the line talked to her manager and waived it. :D

        • Jiipee

          How much do you estimate you’ll be paying to ATT during the two year contract period monthly/total. Would be intereating to compare.

          • Viipottaja

            A lot. :)

            I would have bought an unlocked phone if I would know how to get an LTE data plan etc. cheaper otherwise. I.e. I would end up paying $500 (or whatever the 900 goes for) PLUS paying the same data and call plan price ANYWAY.

            If anyone has figured out how to buy an unlocked phone and then get a cheaper plan I would love to know – granted, I have not really researched the matter thoroughly.

            • Jiipee

              Thanks for the insight. I dont know the US market so well and that gives the a rough idea what kind of sums these ‘for free’ contracts are.

              • Viipottaja

                Welcome. The montly payment for data and messaging only is $50 ($30 for 3GB data + $20 for unlimited texting)!

                Add to that the family plan (with two lines) base fee, some international call roaming plan charges, international texting etc (I travel internationally a lot). For the two lines (the other line is a dumbphone) we in the last year paid anything from $120 to $230/month. And now it will be $20 more as my old MediaMax plan was unlimited data and messaging for $30 total/month.

                • jiipee

                  Talk about the international fees… I once had to send an email with an attachment to a customer whilst being at another customer in Thailand.

                  Their wi-fi did not allow visitor connections, the transfer of file to their computers took a while and for some reason we were not able to send the file from their email (cannot remember the reason, maybe the file size). Time was running out and my senior colleague approved it to be sent via email.

                  It think that email cost approx 800-1000 € ;)

                • xNokian

                  So it is safe to assume that L900 will cost you $20 x48 = $960 over the next two years. Unless there was no way to renew the plan with the grandfathered data plan (probably 3G)

  • milanjakob

    meh, i remember similar posts about the 800. and as we all know it did not sell very well, even compared to the N9 (almost no publicity). and after all “expectations” are always relative.

    • JamesSB

      The 800 is picking up, since its now offered in more countries. One thing is for sure, the Finns love it. Since the 800 was launched this year, the Windows Phone penetration shot up from 0.83% to 6.14%.

      • twig

        Hard to get the blue 900 right now. I went into 3 stores and two were out and one just sold the last one as I was asking to see it. The gal used to use iphone who bought it. They are switching,everyone loves the big tiles who sees them in person and who isn’t paid not too.

      • Maybe

        Thanks to Nokia, WP is picking up the pace. That’s the whole plan to help WP and not Nokia

        • Mark

          Actually it’s a mutual benefit.

          • snoflake

            Yep Microsoft’s and their stockholders’

            • arts

              Nope nokia and microsoft

              • snoflake

                Stock price comparison since JV announcement yields quick answer. It may turn out differently in the end but currently 14 months in MS are miles ahead compared to NOK in this play

      • migo

        Which is a 5.5 marketshare increase for Nokia. When’s the last time we saw that?

        • Bloob

          Marketshare would indicate “of phones sold”, but that’s actually a 6% of “phones in use”. Of course statcounter isn’t all that accurate. Also Finland is a small market despite high smartphone usage.

    • Janne

      But out of the gloom, here is a question: Since when were Nokia smartphones exceeding expectations in the U.S., on a major carrier no less?

      That, at least in isolation, must be considered good news. Perhaps not good enough to counter any of the bad news, but hey, we’ll take what we can. Right? :)

      • Keith

        Sprint has said the 700 has also exceeded expectations. Presumably the Expansys Lumia 900 sales must have exceeded expectations because they sold out the first day. Just guessing but I assume Amazon sales must be way above anyone’s expectations.

        • migo

          I assume you mean T-Mobile and the 710.

          • Keith

            Oops

    • stevebarker66

      All things are relative;

      The N9 was launched about six weeks ahead of the Lumia 800, so it had a head-start straight away.

      There was a lot of pent-up interest in the N9 – not only from existing N900 users but from Symbian refugees. This undoubtedly contributed to the N9′s initial success. I just wonder how long this success will endure, though?

      And the N9 was supported, promoted and advertised in its target territories. Did you really expect marketing dollars to be spent promoting a device that would not be either ranged by carriers or even offered at retail in the remaining territories?

      Yes, the Lumia 800 was promoted and advertised more than the N9 generally, but it is far more of a mass-market proposition than the N9 will ever be, and WP represents Nokia’s stated future now, not Meego.

      That said, the ‘push’ for the Lumia 800 was nowhere near what we have seen for the Lumia 900. It’s almost as if the 800 launch was Nokia dipping its toe in the water. With the 900 they jumped right in and made a big splash.

      So comparing the similar numbers of N9 and Lumia 800 is a fairly pointless exercise unless one is looking to make some political capital out of these miss-matched statistics.

      This is the domain of self-anointed ‘Analysts’ who are adept at proving they are right after the fact whatever the outcome…

      • larryg968

        One could also say that the L900 is selling well now bcuz of pent up demand. The argument goes both ways. How many WP fanboys have been waiting for a decent windows phone.

        Look at it this way, there isnt much difference between the L900 and all the other mango devices released last year. Sure the hardware looks better but thats it. So, all the pent up demand forces the Lumia to the ‘top’ of the charts for a few days and then dies out bcuz common folks r not biting.

        Just my 2cents

        • migo

          The 900 has been winning over iPhone users, and to a lesser degree Android users. That’s not just Windows Phone fans waiting for a good phone.

        • Janne

          larryg968: That is a risk of course.

          But Nokia is putting a lot more behind the Lumia launch, so we hope they can start a virtuous circle. Lumia 900 may be similar to other Mango devices inside, but its positioning for its maker, marketing and operator support are not similar. It might make a difference, just like its looks too.

          Hey, we hope. :)

        • Bloob

          It’s already dropping fast from the Amazon list.

          • Janne

            Lumia 900 is still the best selling phone with plan at Amazon.com. Number 1. With most reviews of the current top phones and five stars.

            The high place in the Cell Phones & Accessories category (up to 30) was not going to last. Almost no phone makes it up there.

            But if Lumia 900 can maintain a spot on the top ranks of the phone best sellers, that would be a positive signal. It is still too early to call.

            I’d say, so far so good. But of course that is no proof of long-term good.

            • Janne

              Also, the sales numbers of Lumia 900 are split between two colors (Cyan has been 2. – 4. on the list, moving a bit). The competition next to it on the list seem to be mostly single colors.

              I wonder how the total number of Lumia 900s would fare on the list.

              • Bloob

                It has now dropped from the list completely, pretty much proving that the success was short lived. Of course still top of the Cell phone with Services -list, but I have no concept of how many units that might be. Hopefully I am wrong.

                • Janne

                  There are normally NO phones on that accessories list. Lumia 900 started so well it made 30th on a list where very few phones ever make top 100 at all.

                  That is something. Now, staying power on the phones with plans list is the next to watch of course. Staying power is important.

      • Shilow

        More like four weeks ahead….
        And yes I personally did expect marketing dollars to be spent promoting a device that “would” be ranged by carriers or offered at retail in the remaining territories?
        They were very significant markets, important for any device if you want it to gain any sort of strong following.
        More important though, is the promise of future devices & heavy development.
        It was explained just as it hit shelves that this wouldn’t happen, that’s gunna hurt no?

  • noki

    how much does it cost again??? 0$, hummmmm I think i will wait till they pay me to use it

    • Janne

      Thank you for that valuable contribution to this discussion. :)

    • twig

      How many different sites do you use that line on? 2 in the past couple days..probably more.

      • lol

        Come now, it wasn’t even that good.

    • Dave

      It costs you $3000 over 2 years.

  • LIVEdotcom

    If Nokia really wants to make money they should sell all their phones in USA. The Lumia hype will rub off on their cheaper products too.

    They are moving far too slowly!

    • twig

      450 minutes plan $39 @ 24= $936

      3gb data plan $30 @24= $720

      Total =$1,656 plus phone costs.

      • Dave

        You’re right, not quite 3k (the min data plan is $20 a month so total can be made cheaper). Still not free either, and don’t forget the $36 activation fee :)

      • Del

        That $1656 is money that At&t will make not Nokia. Nokia only gets what they charge for the phone and that is usually contract free price of the phone.

        • migo

          That’s still good for Nokia.

  • Mark

    Well, it’s encouraging but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or rather the numbers.

    • Janne

      That is true.

      Mmm. Pudding.

  • Sir Capo

    I’m waiting for the White Lumia. Spoke to a rep today and she said AT&T should be getting it on the 22nd of this month. The Cyan looks so beautiful, I almost wanted to pull the trigger and get it, but decided I will wait. Also, the rep said nothing but great things about the Lumia. I was surprised. I was playing dumb and was asking questions about Lumia/WP7… And she pretty much knew her stuff. Thank god.

  • Sir Capo

    Im also thinking of getting an N9, but I hear the Pentile display is bad(?) Is this true? What’s so bad about having a Pentile display? Will the 808 have a Pentile display as well? I should probably wait for the 808, or what do you guys think?

    • Janne

      N9 and 800 have AMOLED PenTile displays. It means the pixel structure is slightly different from the traditional RGB structure, not quite a sharp when looking closer. Most (all?) smaller AMOLED displays are PenTile, has to do with the AMOLED technology I guess…

      Lumia 710 has LCD RGB and 900 has AMOLED RGB, which are sharper. (But of course 710 LCD is more washed out in colors since it isn’t AMOLED.) Not sure about the 808. It has very slightly bigger screen at 4″ (N9 is 3,9″, 800 3,7″) and it is AMOLED, but it might still be PenTile?

      I personally have N9, 800 and 710 and I can see the PenTile structure in N9 and 800, especially in very white backgrounds there is a bit of pattern when you look closely, and some people say text is not as sharp as RGB… but on the other hand the colors pop beautifully in the N9/800, compared to the LCD in 710. So it is a tradeoff.

      Overall, I wouldn’t say it is bad or problem, PenTile displays are quite common. But if you are sensitive to this kind of thing, try at a store first.

      • Janne

        Actually, 808 probably won’t have PenTile since it has a lower resolution. I’d expect it to be AMOLED RGB like the E7 4″.

        Forgot about that one. Sorry.

        • migo

          I was under the impression that Samsung only made RGB AMOLED at 4.3″

          • Janne

            Apparently for 800+ resolutions, yes, but I believe the 640-resolutions in Symbian are RGB AMOLED in 4″ or even 3.5″?

            • migo

              Oh, that makes sense. Smaller screen, lower resolution, similar pixel density.

        • Shilow

          Although it’s sub-pixel config. will be much better, it’s pixel density will be way less than 800/N9.
          Even less than the 900… So I’d expect RW advantage because of it’s sRBG to be almost negligible.

    • twig

      Cool picture. I saw the cyan today too and it’s beautiful. I liked the display much better on the 900 than my n9, maybe because it’s bigger? Yet my N9 display looks good also. I would go with the 900 and 808, maybe a used N9.

      • Janne

        The 900 screen is AMOLED RGB where as the 800/N9 is AMOLED PenTile like most (all?) sharp smaller AMOLED panels are. RGB is sharper than PenTile due to sub-pixel structure differences.

        • Shilow

          Except for most use cases it’s not an issue.
          The only RW use where it’s really an issue is for small text, esp. certain txt/background color combos.
          If one is reading lots of small text, then sRGB becomes advantageous.
          That’s it, for video etc. the differences is imperceptible.
          The fact that the 900′s screen happens to be bigger might also be an advantage for some.
          That one’s more subjective though, esp. given that it’s PPI is notably less than 800/N9.

    • Jonas

      808 does not have pentile matrix display (thank God, with symbian’s low resolution a pentile would be unbearable :P). I’m guessing you live in the US, so take a look to the Lumia 800 which also has a pentile matrix display. Otherwise look at this closeup picture:
      http://cdn6.fonearena.com/i/n9/N9%20Pentile%20Display.JPG

      • dsmobile

        Lumia 800 is not pentile as far as I remember.

        • Janne

          Mine is.

        • Dave

          It is, really.

    • dsmobile

      808 is not pentile screen. I think you will be more happy with 808 than N9. Symbian has more apps and you get really good camera.

      N9 looks better and UI is more fun to use. But 808 has more features as media device.

    • Dave

      Pentile shares the green subpixel between 2 pixels, so not RGBRGB but RGBGB or somesuch. The side effects are less effective resolution (it is IMO unfair to claim the same resolution as a proper RGB matrix), and distinct jagged edges for certain color combinations, black/white text, and scrolling grays.

      Wether it is a problem depends on quality of the screen, size, etc. It’s personal, something you decide when looking at it. I hate pentile, though the Lumia 800 screen is pretty good.

      808 is standard nHD, it will not be pentile (but it is lower res than the N9/L800)

    • migo

      Yeah, I compared my 710 screen with an 800 yesterday and overall I prefer the 710. It’s not as vibrant, but it is sharper and the colour reproduction is more natural.

  • Sir Capo

    Thanks guys/gals for your responses. Yes, I live in the US, so I can’t try an N9. I guess I will get the 808 when it comes out (just for the camera) :) The Lumia 900 will be my everyday phone. Can’t wait til the 22nd… But that damn Cyan looks so damn sexxxy! Great job, Nokia! Great Job!

  • Jesse

    I bought and returned a Cyan Lumia 900. The touch sensitivity is off on the device and makes it feel slow. Normally the ui sticks with your finger on Windows Phone and make it feel super responsive but on the Lumia 900 it kind of lags behind you, almost like the refresh rate is at 30 instead of 60.

    My cousin who is 13 and has been using the HTC Radar’s first response was “why is it slower?”. The same question I found myself asking.

    Also had issues with data which was the final straw to return it. It is great they are offering discounts etc but really I just want a good/working phone.

    At the end of the day I gave back the Lumia 900 and sold most of my Nokia stock. Very impressive advertising and launch but terribly unimpressive device and performance.

    • noki

      :(

      • Jesse

        Indeed noki : (.. I even switch carriers to get this device and I am so sad

        • noki

          as you know I’m not a wp fan, but this is just sad.

          Have you tried other L900? maybe it was a one phone glitch?

          • migo

            Other reviews reported that about the 900 as well, their thought was that Nokia/Microsoft did it on purpose to make it seem smoother. Probably not a good call.

            • Jesse

              It feels anything but smoother… grrr

          • Jesse

            Yes, have tried multiple versions of the phone. Sadly something is wrong with the touch sensitivity. People that have never used Windows Phone do not notice it but it is there. It might be fixable by an update, I hope. I don’t know.

            I know you are not a fan, but really this is not related to Windows Phone. I own multiple Windows Phones including the Lumia 800, HTC Radar and HD7 and none of them have this issue : (

        • twig

          You say the same thing every time a new Nokia Windows phone comes out. Maybe you should put down your Android and try a 900 for real when it comes to your country, which has not, unless you moved again. You cant just switch carriers in the north america market without huge fees. You didnt know this did you.

    • Mike

      Honestly, I like the 800 better than the 900. The 900 does seem slower than the 800 as I play with them side by side. For anyone who has never used a WP7 phone, it is still FAST. We’re just spoiled. Also, as far as Pentile on the 800, it’s not even an issue. The screen is so small, that I don’t notice the difference. If Pentile was on the 900, it would be horrible.
      I’m actually thinking of switching to my 800, but I really love the LTE and the long battery life of the 900. I wish they would properly release the 800 in the US, as I feel it’s a much sexier phone. The 900 is like a bastardized version of the 800 and the N9. I miss the curved screen, and I’m sure the ladies will appreciate the smaller form factor. My wife thinks the 900 is too big for her, and I’m sure many people feel the same. If they can figure out to put LTE on the 800 with a long battery life, I feel like it could be a hit in the US.

      • Sir Capo

        Yes, the 800 is perfect in size! I would’ve gone with a unlocked 800, but it has no FFC and it has a Pentile display! No thanks.

        And that Jesse guy… I think you’re bull shitting us. Slow? I was messing around with the Cyan Lumia and it didn’t seem slow to me. I had the HD7 before so I know what I’m talking about. Then, you say you sold your Nokia stock? Lmao. Right! I just sold my Apple stock today

        • migo

          You obviously haven’t been around here long. He’s not BSing.

          • twig

            Yes he is. Happens every quarters end and new releases for windows .

            • noki

              What Jesse??? wow he is like one of the biggest fans here about the WP strategy, and quite honest about it.

        • Shilow

          Jesse’s a hardcore Nokia + WP-only supporter.
          You can be rest assured he is not BS’ing.

        • Shilow

          PenTile display is not the huge issue you think it is.
          Did you not read all the prior explanations…
          It might make it’s effective resolution slightly greater overall, but not hugely so.
          Esp. when one factors in that it’s PPI is notably less than the L800/N9′s.

          • Shilow

            [It might make the 900's "effective resolution" greater, but not hugely so.]

      • Mark

        Me too. The 900 is just too big for me.

    • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslik

      To be honest, I find it hard to believe it. This story is weird.

    • Viipottaja

      Hmm. Don’t have another WP phone to compare to but at least on my L900 scrolling seems immediate and smooth so can’t complain.

    • Janne

      Jesse and others: The Verge commenters say the new data-fix update from Nokia also fixed the touch sensitivity/speed issue.

  • Paul Grenfell

    Im actually a Nokia fan so dont flame me..
    Just saw this article. Note the Poll.
    http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/mobiles/samsung-ends-nokias-14year-reign-as-king-of-mobiles-20120413-1wx8v.html#poll

    Samsung ends Nokia’s 14-year reign as king of mobiles
    Poll: What are the prospects for Nokia?
    It can recover – just needs a killer device
    38%
    Could go either way
    23%
    It’s doomed
    38%

    • shallow ocean shoal

      Haha, so people think it’s split 50-50! Couldn’t be more appropriate.

      I am surprised at the “surprise” reactions from yesterday.

      Was it really that surprising for everyone who reads this blog??? Of all the people, the last people who should have been surprised were the people here.

      Symbian has been tanking for years. The decline has been accelerating recently – we’ll NEVER KNOW if it was from burning platform memos or from cheap asian androids. And we’re in a transition while the new thing is just starting to take off, and despite a hiccup is kicking ass and taking names.

      And seriously what’s wrong with that Tomi guy? Somebody give that guy a new job! His writing is surprisingly childish and reminds me of that Topolsky guy.

      • Paul Grenfell

        It does show that they are still waiting for that Killer Device..And so am i .. The 808 is pretty close and so is the Nokia 900.. Both very nice phones, but killer? No.
        Nokia needs to stop making sooo many differentiating Models and concentrate on making less but more complete models.. And one really good Killer model that can establish its credentials on the Market. Like IPhone and SGS
        Samsung have made huge strides by following this approach.

        • Sir Capo

          What Nokia and MS need to do is release the Lumia 900 on all carriers, not just AT&T. Heck, they should’ve released the 800 with T Mobile.

          Also, they need to look at small carriers as well, such as Cricket and US Cellular. All they carry are Androids. Step up Nokia/MS! No time to be bull shiting…

          • shallow ocean shoal

            The problem is Sprint and Verizon are diff technology, and not GSM…

            I will not be surprised at all to see the random stuff show up on tmobile (my carrier of choice)

        • random

          I actually find the 808 to be a killer device.

          • Paul Grenfell

            Well to me and you, its pretty near the target isnt it? But SGS and Ip users are the ones you need to convince.

        • migo

          Yeah, that has always been Nokia’s problem. So far with the 710, 800 and 900 they’ve been ramping up, but the 610 gets NFC that the 900 doesn’t. And they probably won’t ever make the ideal phone.

          The 810 had better be curved screen, 3.7″ but with the proportions of the 900, SLCD CBD (not AMOLED, pentile is a problem and the colours are unnatural), a proper large shutter button, gyroscope, FFC and NFC and a camera that can at least keep up with HTC and Apple.

          Of course it’s not going to be quite that. Some compromise somewhere will be made.

        • Janne

          It is definitely true that Nokia needs a killer flagship. Arguably they haven’t had a true one since the N95. A yearly global launch of a phone to rule them all is definitely what Nokia needs – in addition to other models that can satisfy diverse needs in price, design etc.

          I would, however, say a lot of the current issues and unoptimal solutions stem from the transition and hence I hope they are temporary. (/In fact this was Nokia’s problem before, transition from Symbian to Maemo/MeeGo led to some incomplete and unoptimal highend products.) Let’s not reopen the question if the transition to Windows Phone was a good or bad idea, Nokia had their reasons (ecosystem) and we can agree or disagree with that. But what is evident is that from that transition certain problems followed:

          - Limited quantities: First was the need to design and make Nokia Windows Phones in record time, from scratch. Of course they solved this my calling up Compal and putting them in the same room with some N9 ja 603 chassis guys. But what it also means was that they had to source and launch these products in maybe one third the time they usually have for phones. I am pretty sure they simply woudln’t have been able to ramp up supply and manufacturing for a global launch by Q4/2011, even had they wished to do so. They may still be ramping things up today. Normally Nokia would have, what, 18 months from start to launch for a phone. Now it is only 14 months since Nokia really started with Windows Phone.

          - Limited features: Second, what it also means is they were severely limited by what Windows Phone, and the reference designs, at that time were able to provide them with. Had Nokia been a premier Windows Phone partner from the start, Mango would look different – but now Nokia would have to look like Mango. For the time being. This will change, don’t worry, as evidenced by the Lumia 610 NFC (I will get back to that in another point). This means dropping things that they already had in their diverse palette, making things actually worse then they were for their sporadic highend attemts of past few years. Many software features are missing, as well as hardrware features – and the combination of hardware and software is unnecessarily weak in some areas like cameras, since Nokia has not had time to finetune it all.

          - Unoptimal launches: Third, one of the things Elop said he was going to fix (and hasn’t succeeded in a meaningful way), was shortening the announcement to release time. It has occurred in some cases, like the Belle devices and original Lumias in some markets, but at the same time the N9, Lumia 900 and now the Lumia 610 NFC have been announced months before launch. This is not good, but this also stems from the transition. Nokia’s palette has been so over the place due to the transition, that they have had reasons to do these announcements even if their ability deliver was hampered and delays were inevitable. Lumia 900 was needed for the CES, for PR reasons. N9 was needed to carry Nokia’s image while the world waited for their Windows Phones, but it was not ready early enough.

          - Non-uniform offering: Now, Lumia 610 NFC is revealed months before, with an NFC feature missing from other Lumia models. When I first read of this it sounded like the stupidest thing to announce it. But thinking about it, I do see why. Nokia was in fact one of the NFC pioneers and in the original strategy were supposed by now have a very strong NFC presence in their lineup: the N9 supports it, the Belles support it, many of Nokia’s cool accessories support it, they have projects in mobile payment in various places around the world. NFC was going to be big and it is going to be big. But for the above-mentioned reasons, going Windows Phone threw all this into chaos. NFC for Lumia was not ready in time, simple as that. But now they need to have products to sell, but also to make their presence known in the NFC space, to partners they need and so on. And they can’t do that if their primary smartphone offering does not support it. Hence they must make public a project that otherwise would stay behind wraps until launch. Very unoptimal, very non-uniform, but again stems from the transition.

          - Windows CE legacy: Indeed, Windows Phone while an UX rewrite, is still going through its own transition as well. This transition will end in the Apollo/Windows 8 release when a modern kernel and native coding for third-party apps are introduced. This will usher in things like multi-core support and of course lots of new features. And the whole Windows 8 ecosystem. Nokia has thus been limited by Windows Phone’s own transition as well, but they do have things to look forward to in this space. Microsoft’s roadmap was for sure a big deciding factor for them.

          So, and cue in the people saying I’m moving goal posts, but for various reasons the Q3/Q4 launch of Windows Phone 8 is actually very important because it actually is Nokia’s first true chance at a highend flagship phone since the N95 (even N900 or N9 wasn’t going to be that because Maemo/MeeGo was still so limited). By then all the above pieces will be in place, or we can reasonable expect them to also make good on that. Nokia will have had a full development cycle for a highend phone and complementary models, Windows Phone will have transitioned to a modern platform with modern specs, Nokia has had time to implement most things missing like NFC and maybe PureView in some form, and they have had time to source and ramp up sufficient manufacturing capacity behind these products. Also, they have already introduced Lumia to the world, and to their organization and parterns by then, so that they can better concentrate on introducing the second wave.

          If Nokia still isn’t capable of a highend flagship when Apollo hits, or they spread the features out in a stupid manner, then they truly haven’t learned. But for now, and for the past couple years, it has been the necessary transition (first Maemo/MeeGo, then WP) that has been most taxing on their ability to produce another N95 – and the reason behind some weird decisions they have made. Now, let’s see if they will do better once they finally can.

          • Rebbe

            +100

            I agree!

          • migo

            We can only hope that they get it right. Some of the things you point out aren’t really transitional though. 610 with NFC while the 900 lacks it? That’s what they were doing when they were on top. At the moment you’ve got to choose between a low end phone with NFC (610) or a high end phone without it (900), at least with the 710 and 800 the only real trade off was a matter of preference, rather than the presence or absence of features.

            As far as announcements go, they can only really control that if they actually have a product to launch every month, or if they control when they announce it. As long as Nokia shows up at CES/CEBIT/etc they’re going to be announcing things earlier than they’d like to actually have something to announce. They should stick to just making announcements at Nokia World, and if convenient at MWC and the like, but otherwise just launch their less important products.

            There’s still a big question of when everything aligns if Elop is really able to make a difference, not only in terms of overall strategy but also in terms of the smaller details that Nokia has been getting wrong for years.

            • Janne

              migo:

              “We can only hope that they get it right. Some of the things you point out aren’t really transitional though. 610 with NFC while the 900 lacks it? That’s what they were doing when they were on top. At the moment you’ve got to choose between a low end phone with NFC (610) or a high end phone without it (900), at least with the 710 and 800 the only real trade off was a matter of preference, rather than the presence or absence of features.”

              No matter what they may have done in the past, I do think Lumia 610 NFC is definitely transitional. They didn’t have time to put NFC in for the original Lumia trio – and I guess doesn’t appear in the 610 for China either. No time.

              Why 610 will get NFC announcement first? Mt guess: They need a Windows Phone to showcase to NFC partners and the market, but they can’t show off a NFC 710, 800 or 900, because that would hamper the sale of those highend devices.

              “As long as Nokia shows up at CES/CEBIT/etc they’re going to be announcing things earlier than they’d like to actually have something to announce.”

              That is true. And most Nokia launches have been on their own time: N9, 710 and 800, Belles. Only this years CES and MWC were dictated by others, so 900, 808 and 610. But arguably I think Nokia needed CES and MWC this year, for reasons obvious. Hopefully in the future they won’t need them as much and can take the Apple approach.

              “There’s still a big question of when everything aligns if Elop is really able to make a difference, not only in terms of overall strategy but also in terms of the smaller details that Nokia has been getting wrong for years.”

              Agreed. While I do stand by the transitional reasons I listed above, and I do think they are quite likely facts, that doesn’t mean Nokia will actually learn from the past once the transition is over. I hope they do, but of course they might not.

              • Dave

                The 610 NFC was announced at the only real NFC conference this year, there were already some Belle’s and the N9 with NFC, so it makes sense to show the NFC 610 which incidentally has the secure NFC allowing it to do contact payments.

                The Q3 is because WP needs to support NFC properly, and it will probably be at least 2013 before NFC becomes so common place (if at all) that this becomes an issue. Remember we were also miffed that the N8 did not have NFC, and other than some speaker accessory I have not seen a single application here where I’d miss it.

                • twig

                  Very few things the public can do with nfc yet in the u.s.

          • First time poster! :-)

            This is quite possibly the BEST analysis I’ve read ANYWHERE on the web regarding the current Nokia development and launch lifecycle!

            I’m a big Nokia fan, as many are in Europe, but I currently use an iPhone 4S as my main handset (got a Lumia 710 as a second work phone as well). The Lumia handsets are great but there are a number of niggles (part specs and mostly OS related that need updating and ironing out). Once they’re sorted out then I want to be in a position to move back to Nokia and to WP and I’ll be keeping a close eye on developments.

            These really need to be addressed before the WP handsets can really take on the best handsets (be they mid-range, low-end or premium) on the market.

            I’m no Apple fan and I’m not deeply invested into the iOS ecosystem but there is no denying that the current iPhone is a great handset. But I believe that Nokia (with Microsoft) can be a great competitor very soon!

            I think that the Lumia 900 is doing great in laying the foundations for a return to the US for Nokia and hopefully a surge for WP. Some people say it’s a failure because it doesn’t have flagship hardware. Ultimately, however, neither Nokia nor MS are claiming that the 900 is a flagship device and it isn’t priced as one. It is more a case of being the standard bearer for WP as it is hoping to evolve into a realistic competitor to iOS and Android. The Lumia 900 is just the beginning before Nokia can really show what they can do as the preferred partner with MS. Given such status, they should be able to outdo the efforts that Samsung, HTC, etc. can make – both in terms of hardware quality and the marketing efforts. If they don’t then it will be a sad day for everyone, including the Android/iOS community who will no longer have an innovative hardware competitor to push their devices forward.

            The fact that announcements still have large leadtimes are just a reflection of the out of sync development cycle. For example, the 610 NFC had to be announced to impact the NFC community at the only relevant congress happening in 2012.

            Personally, I like iOS though I hate that it is so restrictive and that there are so many iPhones out there – it’s very homogenous. My previous phone (for a year) was a SE Xperia and I liked the flexibility offered by Android but it also caused a number of issues with crashes, memory management, baseband corruption, etc. Fragmentation is a problem for Android but I think Google are making strides to reducing it. WP has the potential to offer a nice middle ground and, fingers crossed, Apollo will finally deliver on this (yes, I know a lot of sceptics will say that WP ‘fanboys’ are always saying ‘wait for Apollo’ but the fact is that most of us who are reasonable realise that it will be the ‘do or die’ moment for both WP and Nokia).

            With this in mind, I think that Nokia chose wisely in going for WP. Android has cut-throat competition with low margins. The only options to make it your own are to skin it, etc. iOS is closed. Nokia is not a preferred partner for WP, it is THE preferred partner and should be able to drive the operating system, in partnership with MS, to its own benefit, making more suitable for its own devices from the ground up. This takes time and that is why, by being involved with WP8 development for the past year, we will only start to see the real fruits of such a partnership come Apollo. For MS, they finally have a premium hardware manufacturer with a focus on WP on the table. It has the potential to be a win-win set up.

            You may hate Stephen Elop but he has taken on a company that had fallen behind and is having to weather a tough storm as it begins its turn-around. I think he took a brave decision to go with WP and, whether or not people think he is a MS lackey, I can’t see that he could have made a better choice. Symbian was great – for its time. And to make it competitive from a mass market user persepective would require an enormous rebuild from the roots up. Meego I think was scuppered through differences in objectives between Nokia and Intel, ultimately leading to a much slower development time and the halfway house that is the Nokia N9 – a great piece of hardware design, with an unfinished (in the sense that it is not completely finessed) OS that does have some great usability ideas in it (e.g. swipe gestures).

            Ultimately, Nokia and MS aren’t quite there yet to be solid competitors to iOS and Android, though they’re not too far off. I hope they do make it this year for sure!

            • Janne

              Thank you very much First time poster! :-) for a lengthy response and welcome to MNB!

              I’m out of time for the moment, but I will get back with my comments. :)

            • Janne

              First time poster! :-):

              “I’m no Apple fan and I’m not deeply invested into the iOS ecosystem but there is no denying that the current iPhone is a great handset. But I believe that Nokia (with Microsoft) can be a great competitor very soon!”

              What you are saying reflects the sentiment of many people coming from iPhone. Unlike people say, I actually think many people like Windows Phone once they try it. It is very smooth and while having a very unique personality, it has many of the things done right that also made the iPhone a success. I think Lumia is giving pause to many people who dumped Nokia for the iPhone. Now they have something that might bring them back, especially those like you who have not yet invested so heavily in the ecosystem.

              “I think that the Lumia 900 is doing great in laying the foundations for a return to the US for Nokia and hopefully a surge for WP. Some people say it’s a failure because it doesn’t have flagship hardware.”

              I agree. This is the mission of Lumia 900, and in many ways the rest of the Lumia family as well. They are laying the groundwork. They are not perfect, but the so wasn’t iPhone 1 either. If Nokia and Microsoft can manage a mindblowingly great Apollo launch, this grounwork will really pay off when they build on it. But because of the transitional nature, still, of the current range of course it is more limited than eventually the phones will be. Lumia will get better and get more things in the future, like the 610 NFC model points out.

              “Given such status, they should be able to outdo the efforts that Samsung, HTC, etc. can make – both in terms of hardware quality and the marketing efforts.”

              And more importantly: They should be able to gain mindshare as *the* Windows Phone manufacturer, much like they did when they were a Symbian manufacturer. Many Nokia fans forget that Symbian phones were built by many companies, it was not an OS originally made by Nokia, but Psion. In Q3/2010 all the others (except NTT DoCoMo) dumped Symbian, because it was not deemed competitive any more. Nokia was left holding up the Symbian fort. Nokia needs and wants other players in the Windows Phone ecosystem, but it also wants to be THE major player there. They now have that chance. Over at Android, it would have been much harder to get that mindshare.

              “The fact that announcements still have large leadtimes are just a reflection of the out of sync development cycle. For example, the 610 NFC had to be announced to impact the NFC community at the only relevant congress happening in 2012.”

              Agreed. We will still see stupid things caused by the transition, but the hope is they will get fewer and fewer, until I hope we see some real halo devices and flagships in the future. Hopefully Nokia has learned from the pre-transition Nokia some important lessons. I have hope, because one good thing Elop changed (and people keep forgetting this) is that Nokia now provides major OS updates to older handsets. We would never have gotten Symbian Belle for N8 under the old Nokia. Elop’s Nokia changed that.

              “Apollo will finally deliver on this (yes, I know a lot of sceptics will say that WP ‘fanboys’ are always saying ‘wait for Apollo’ but the fact is that most of us who are reasonable realise that it will be the ‘do or die’ moment for both WP and Nokia).”

              Agreed. It is the reasonable position to consider Apollo the important turning point – to good or bad.

              “Symbian was great – for its time. And to make it competitive from a mass market user persepective would require an enormous rebuild from the roots up.”

              Agreed. It was good up until N95, but Symbian failed to transform into the new world where smartphone operating systems were touch-controlled and driven by software more akin to desktop than mobile.

              “Meego I think was scuppered through differences in objectives between Nokia and Intel, ultimately leading to a much slower development time and the halfway house that is the Nokia N9 – a great piece of hardware design, with an unfinished (in the sense that it is not completely finessed) OS that does have some great usability ideas in it (e.g. swipe gestures).”

              Yes, MeeGo was very incomplete. Many people forget this when considering the viability of that option. Nokia’s and Intel’s software prowess (compared to Microsoft) did not instill faith in me that they could have turned that thing around fast enough. N9 was a nice start, but very late and still not enough as it is.

              “Ultimately, Nokia and MS aren’t quite there yet to be solid competitors to iOS and Android, though they’re not too far off. I hope they do make it this year for sure!”

              I agree. We hope! :)

              • First time poster! :-)

                Hi Janne – I’m one of those people who spends a lot of time reading many, many tech posts about Nokia and the WP transition but who hasn’t ever really bothered to reply. I actually felt compelled to reply when I finally read your post that seemed like the most realistic and level headed perscpective I’d seen for a long time. :-)

                It’s a shame that there seems to be so much in terms of flames and hate (towards all of the big OS) out there. WP and the ‘new’ Nokia seem to get an awful lot of flack right now, though I wonder if that’s also because of some of the image challenges associated with MS and the name ‘Windows.’

                You’re absolutely right about mindshare – this is what Nokia and MS need, especially in the US right now and the 900 and 710 are laying that groundwork. The real test for Nokia and WP is going to be when Apollo comes. Ideally the major OS refresh will tie in with major new hardware from Nokia to give a synchronised launch and kick to the market. If Nokia and MS fail to capitalise on the groundwork done with the Lumia phones then that will tell the market that they really aren’t up to the task in front of them. I think it’s an opportunity for them to lose but both companies are so co-dependent (one for the major software overhaul required and the other for decent hardware updates) that they both have a lot of interest in making it happen.

                That’s what makes it so exciting! :-)

                Going forward I think that product announcements from Nokia will become more aligned with their own development schedule. Even looking at this year, things look like they might start to be more co-ordinated. Yes, the 610 NFC was out of sync but look at the Q3 period for 2012. Nokia World is already in the diary. Based on some of the leaked MS roadmaps, and the interesting finding that WP8 might be out for early dev testing (seen in the ‘I’m a WP7′ app) now, Sept/Oct this year is a viable launch window for Apollo. And we are seeing leaked renders now for Nokia WP8 hardware, which would fit with a potential Q3 handset launch.
                Add to this that Q3 is also the estimated launch window for Windows 8 and the first W8 tablets.

                All 3, hardware, software, launch meeting, could be lining up for Q3 2012! Now let’s hope that Stephen Elop has managed to get his team to address some of those inventory management issues in the supply chain and that we won’t see any ridiculously long lead times on a potential launch announcement.

                Personally, I think the second half of 2012 is going to be the critical moment, as well as very exciting, for Nokia and MS in the mobile space!

                I know I mentioned that I have an iPhone 4S now but, not so many years ago, I was a consistent Nokia user. My last Nokia was an E71 – a truly great handset. Symbian was good on it but I remember even then having some issues with the menu structure and OS complexities – and I’m quite a techy. And this, I think, says a lot about why Symbian no longer has a place in the modern smartphone mass market. The iPhone changed everything quite literally – it brought smart features to a largely untechnical public. Android is trying to follow in its footsteps and it is only with Gingerbread and ICS that they are finally getting beyond all the technical menus and options that might have put off a lot of mass-market users. Indeed, though many of us hate the manufacturer skins on Android, many general users have no issue with them because they are what make older android handsets accessible to them in terms of user interface.

                It’s the mass market, not just us techies, who Nokia need to impress with a fluid user experience and this is why Symbian cannot meet its future needs without a rework right from the core.

                Indeed, WP does offer a smooth experience. As I mentioned, I have a Lumia 710 as a second work phone. I actually prefer the 800 from having played with it a bit – much better hardware design. I know full well that WP is smooth and has lots of great features going for it. It’s got a lot of potential but it has lots of niggles (as well as hardware capping) that need to be ironed to make it truly a great experience for someone to move to AFTER using iOS or even some versions of Android. These niggles may not be so much of an issue for some people moving to WP from Symbian or who haven’t used either of the above before – hence why the Lumia 900 may be selling so well in the US already!
                That word comes up for me again and again – ‘potential.’ The software (WP) is good now but not great. The hardware is (finally with Nokia on board)WP very good but not great (for various reasons, I know). But all the pieces are there, full of that potential, ready to be exploited to make something great and really competitive.

                As I said, I’m excited about 2012 for Nokia and WP. I really hope that the transition doesn’t get screwed up and that both they and MS do deliver on the good work they’ve started.

                I like my iPhone but I want something different and I really want that to be the great Nokia hardware of old with a smooth but adaptable OS like WP.

                • Janne

                  Thank you for the comprehensive posts. Good reading. :)

                  I agree that Nokia has a chance at a more coherent offering later this year – and even more so if and when they combine forces with Microsoft. They have this apple-esque potential to make all the pieces click in an integrated way from servers to desktop to consoles to tablets to phones – latter two which Nokia could handle as the premium partner. There is potential there, for sure.

                  And as you say, the opportunity is for Nokia and Microsoft to loose. Let’s hope they won’t! In the meanwhile, current Lumia family matters. Let’s hope it does well and improves the numbers all the time.

                  P.S. Just a side not how people’s tastes differ and how important it is for Nokia to continue offer diverse models. You mentioned 710 and 800. I have both (and N9) and out of all of them I actually like the baby, 710, the most. I can’t put my finger on it, really, why… it is just a really nice design with color covers (mine is black on magenta) and some nice shapes. I know the 800/N9 is the more iconic design, but 710 is the little engine that could. :)

            • Shilow

              MeeGo proper had little do with the delayed delivery of the N9.
              Why do people still not get this….

          • Jiipee

            What you wrote I can agree on. Eventhough you said that lets forget Feb 11 one should still consider what could have been the alternative: we dont and we might never know how far Nokia was in porting Pureview on Maemo. They already had NFC on it, according to rumoura they had already purchased dual core processors.

            I can only ask: would N9 + dual core + decent GPU + Pureview + 500 core quality apps be a hero device maybe in Jan 2012? (this can be with or without WP if you like)

            • Janne

              Jiipee: Just to clarify, I said let’s forget Feb11 because that is a whole different debate, not because I want to brush in under the carpet. What I listed are downsides of the Windows Phone transition (and some of the were already downsides of the MeeGo transition before Feb11). Of course the Windows Phone transition also has upsides, and Nokia thought it had more upsides than other options. One can agree or disagree certainly with good reason.

              As for your hypothesis: I agree, we won’t know what might have been and yes it might have worked. The hero device you describe, possible. It is a big question, could MeeGo have worked even with Symbian being the mess it was at the end. Maybe.

              • jiipee

                Maybe is the word.

                Dual cores were in the process, that is more or less confirmed by some TMO members.

                If Nokia is expecting to launch Pureview 6-12 months after 808, Maemo has been there all the time during the 5 year Pureview development.

                Of course they may have followed the Nokia Way and not allowed the Pureview development at all for Maemo so that they would not compete agains Symbian :)

                • Janne

                  :D

                • migo

                  That is sadly quite likely.

            • migo

              If they could have done the N9 as dual core, it would have been dual core when it launched. There wasn’t going to be any sort of change over 6 months to change that. The N9 had an OMAP3 because the N900 had an OMAP3, and they couldn’t scale it even to an OMAP4.

              PureView on Maemo/MeeGo… that’s a harder one to decide. On the one hand, it would be much more popular than PureView on Symbian, but on the other hand, the N9 just isn’t getting apps, so improving Symbian and making use of the currently available apps is the better strategy.

              There’s also the question of whether it could have been brought to M*o. Maybe it’s harder to bring it to Windows Phone, but you’d still expect some transitional issues bringing it to any new platform.

              • Shilow

                It would’ve been entirely do-able…
                A 3rd Maemo device of such a caliber was defined on the road-maps as a final bridging device before full transition in approx mid-2012.
                “If” it was needed, which in hindsight we now know it would’ve been.
                As the 1st Medfield’s wouldn’t have been deliverable by Dec 2011.

              • noki

                Stop talking out of your ass will you, sory but you are just saying BS there, its a LINUX kernel, you know 99,9% the same as in all the androids..
                Megoo can run on pretty much any hardware.. (unlike wp btw)

            • Shilow

              Maybe not Jan, but it most def. would’ve been feasible by now.
              Quite a few at TMO have spoken to devs w/connections over the last 6mth.
              And they’ve all confirmed that plans were well advanced on prototypes for U8500, & OMAP4 to a lesser extent.
              Pureview I’m not so sure, but solid CPU/GPU/Screen etc, & a far more polished Maemo6x would’ve been quite probable by now.

          • http://s n8thegreat

            Exactly. Nokia’s first truly high end phone in a long time comes with Windows Phone 8.

          • Shilow

            ["Nokia will have had a full development cycle for a highend phone and complementary models, Windows Phone will have transitioned to a modern platform with modern specs, Nokia has had time to implement most things missing like NFC and maybe PureView in some form, and they have had time to source and ramp up sufficient manufacturing capacity behind these products. Also, they have already introduced Lumia to the world, and to their organization and parterns by then, so that they can better concentrate on introducing the second wave"]

            Agreed. If it’s anything short of a N95 caliber device, & if it’s not out before the EOTY.
            Many of us will rightly be entitled to question the WP-only strategy, & the total jettisoning of follow-up devices to the N950/N9.
            The cycle’s been more than long enough at that point, with two giants working together.

    • larryg968

      There is no way Nokia will make a comeback anytime soon. At least for another 3 years. The mobile phone arena revolves around moment. Nokia was stagnant and samsung was growing. Now, Nokia is shrinking and Samsung is growing.

      How is nokia suppose to reclaim the lead. That would at least mean they have to sell more smartphone than samsung. Currently, Nokia sells 12m in Q1- 2m lumia and 10m symbian. That 10m will go away so now they not only have to replace the 10m sales but also sell 30m more smartphone. Thats to catch samsung’s current level. They have to sell at 40m smartphone a quarter, prob 50m by the end of the year.

      That is not even remotely possible at the moment. People r contemplating whether nokia will survive into 2014 much less surpass samsung. That is a pipe dream

      • Paul Grenfell

        It needs to stop pouring all their eggs into WP basket and really promote the Pureview 808 ( which i know they wont do, especially in Australia). Then Start dishing out Top End Meegos (no penny pinching) and produce less but better Symbian Models.. And publically support those platforms.. Put the Fire out.

        • shallow ocean shoal

          Sorry, don’t see it. As much as I like my N9 and my meego, I honestly don’t think it would have stood a chance in the USA against apple and google. Not enough people like you and me to be self-sustainable, at least.

          • Paul Grenfell

            Im not saying Wp isnt good, just that Nokia needs to look at the other platforms they have.. The US isnt the World..(though they might think so) There are other Phones with Windows, not just Nokia. If Nokia was the sole Windows Phone on the market, then yes, it could have been a winner, but its not..
            Besides that, there is a huge Symbian and Meego following, which Nokia should not be ignoring.. These customers were their bread and butter until WP.

            • shallow ocean shoal

              Dumb question, but how many of the old symbian following remain so after getting a shiny new iphone or android in their hands?

              Honest question, are there any stats or studies on this?

              My personal feeling (again, I’m spoiled by meego) is that symbian feels ancient compared to ios, android, meego, and win…

              • migo

                I don’t know a single Symbian user who has switched to Android, iPhone or BlackBerry who has the slightest inclination of going back.

                • dr_zorg

                  That has a lot to do with Nokia betraying their customers (declaring Symbian EOL, announcing updates and not delivering them on time, etc) and not that much to do with Symbian itself.

                  Of course, then there are media-centric types who will naturally gravitate toward iOS and Android, and BB has a totally different kind of user. Not many change camp between Symbian and BB.

                  • migo

                    No, it has nothing to do with declaring Symbian EOL. None of them know anything about it, hell, a lot of them don’t even know the OS was called Symbian if I didn’t tell them. They don’t want anything to do with it because the experience was terrible.

                    • shallow ocean shoal

                      Thanks migo, that was suspicion anecdotally

                    • arts

                      another anecdotal evidence, my female Friedman once called symbian an horrible java os. Oh the irony.

        • migo

          That’s not the solution, the 808 is appealing despite Symbian, not because of it. They’ve done what they needed to – shown that they’re way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to cameras, and you can either get the 808 sometime this year or wait for a Lumia PureView running Windows Phone 8 some time next year. Anyone who’s looking for a good camera phone and who wants an actually viable smartphone OS is more likely to hold off on buying a new phone until said Lumia PureView is released, instead of just buying the Titan II or some other phone now.

          Continuing to support and improve Symbian in markets where it’s still strong isn’t a bad idea, but that can’t last forever. Symbian has nowhere to go but down, they need to shift gears to Windows Phone everywhere.

          • Janne

            Reading the fiscal announcement, it seems Nokia will be doing exactly that: moving faster with Lumia in all markets, because Symbian is not having the traction they hoped it would.

            I think the odds that we will not see any more Symbian devices after the 808 just increased a lot. We know Carla/Donna devices were in the pipeline, but who knows if all we are going to receive now are software updates. Perhaps some minor models. I’d still like to see a dual-core Symbian Donna, just for the sake of being interested, but I guess it won’t happen now.

            I will get the 808 of course. In any case it will probably be Symbian’s last big hurrah. While I think Symbian needed to go, I appreciate its history and have fond memories from many years. 808 will be a fitting end to that.

            • migo

              It would be a fitting end. The N8 wouldn’t have been a bad one either. Just doing an N8 with CBD, and then N8 with 1GHz CPU with no other Symbian phones launching would have been better. It would have only been a phone for cameraphiles, but still, something good.

      • Janne

        For us end-users what matters most is that Nokia stabilises and starts punching out quality phones. That is the most imporant thing. So, a solid Lumia lineup, with positive trajectory and get away from the red – that would be a good start.

        We are not (as Nokia fans), I’m afraid, in a good position to worry about marketshare now – I agree, it might not be fixed anytime soon. The basics need to sorted out first. And if they are, that will be good too.

        Nokia has been in transition since 2008 or so. They need to finish a transition and make it solid. Then start building on that.

        • migo

          Also, marketshare isn’t a huge deal to the end user. App selection is growing quite quickly, which is usually a function of marketshare, but in this case MS’ great dev relations is making up for that. If I can buy a phone with 100,000 available apps, I’m not going to be too concerned about how many others have it. And of course Symbian’s incumbent marketshare did nothing to boost app development.

  • Shaik Rasool

    Nokia Lumia Sales would have been much much better if they would have released them worldwide at once. Millions will sell like hot cakes. The more they delay the people loose intrest in the phone waiting for them and mean time some other competitor release much better phone.

    I think they should release every new model everywhere and then compare their sales report. I am afraid that still some places are yet to rceive Lumia 800 but the craze now is Lumia 900. So if they release Lumia 800 now what its use.

    • Paul Grenfell

      Yes there is a big demand for the 900 here in Australia and also the 808.. but Nokia Australia are still “evaluating” whether they will sell them here.
      How stupid is that?

      • shallow ocean shoal

        Hey my N9 is an australian version…what’s going on over there that takes them so long to “evaluate” everything? Do the telcos just generally under-resource all around? Or is it not so cut and dry?

        • Paul Grenfell

          Its not the Telcos.. its Nokia Australia…

        • Shilow

          Don’t get me started on how NokiaAustralia handled the N9 roll-out (comparatively speaking).

    • migo

      They would need to be able to build that many phones in the first place.

  • manu

    i dont think lumia series is gonna make up for losing symbian sales.
    Also there is no chance of people buying symbian anymore.so meltemi is the key but yet again it needs apps and other features offered by low end droids and some extra capabilities or features over low end droids.

    • shallow ocean shoal

      manu, Why do you say people will not buy symbian anymore?

      The common man-on-the-street has no idea what the “burning platform” memo is, so what do you feel is the reason?

      • migo

        The Symbiots would like to believe everyone knew about the memo.

      • manu

        the common man on street may not have idea of burning platform and elop.but the retailer store salesman would defenitely tell him to go for android ,so will his friends and family.
        Also people has a belief has symbian is slow and still in s60 era thanks to devices like c5-0xx,52xx series still in sale.

        • Prasenjit Singh Bist

          completely agreed its funny that s60 v5 which killed symbian brand before Elop came in with his stupid memo. And Nokia India still sells those s60v5 farts but they too are helpless Nokia is not making belle phones at those price points and assuming asha will fill that gap but asha is only for those who want dual sim and touch type its no solution to people who want devices like 5233 etc but with better UX.

      • yasu

        “The common man-on-the-street has no idea what the “burning platform” memo is, so what do you feel is the reason?”

        The common man-on-the-street is not Nokia’s customer.

        Nokia customers are retailers and carriers who buy those things in bulk.

        Why would they give shelf space, which is hotly fought over by a myriad of handset models, to an EOLed platform?

        • Mark

          Actually, yasu, given Nokia’s previous dominance the common man on the street is exactly what a Nokia customer was.

          The end user is the one who buys the phone. Most of them do not know about the Feb 2011 memo, they just didn’t buy Symbian phones because:

          1) A lot of them got the N97, got burned and will take a lot of persuading to even consider a Nokia again.
          2) Symbian isn’t as good on phones as iOS or Android.

          That’s it. The memo didn’t matter really.

          • Janne

            Well, I’m sure the memo mattered some – because operator subsidies for example is important.

            But it is true Symbian was crashing even without the memo. Like BlackBerry is. The competition is just too good for these old warhorses.

            So, both are valid reasons. What percentage they affected is of course a debate, which I won’t start now. :)

            • migo

              The memo didn’t affect anyone directly. Anyone who was aware of the memo is either a diehard Symbian fan and would continue buying Symbian despite it or wanted nothing to do with Symbian ever again.

              So as far as direct consumer influence, it was only a good thing, because Nokia fans who hated Symbian knew that if they just waited a bit they could get a Nokia without a crap OS.

              • Janne

                Well, by the memo I meant the memo and Feb11 together. I believe it affected people through whatever actions the operators and retailers may have taken. Symbian sales took a hit in the numbers, at least – and I think took a hit faster than they otherwise would have.

                But of course we agree Symbian would have failed anyway, even without Feb11. Just like RIM is now failing.

                • noki

                  “Just like RIM is now failing.”

                  RIM is the best example, RIM is failing, but at a much much much slower rate than simbian, in fact RIM bb is now selling more than symbian and Lumia range combined…

                  • Dave

                    What exactly is your point?

                    That Symbian is falling faster than would have been necessary, owing to Feb 11. Yes, probably. Likely even.

                    Doesn’t change that RIM and Symbian are still both going down, and that so far only Nokia seems to have changed course to avoid the iceberg.

                  • Janne

                    Yes, RIM is the best example, I agree – because it gives us a glimpse of what could have happened to Nokia had they not changed course.

                    It will be interesting to see how BB7 (their Symbian) and QNX/BB10 (their MeeGo) will work for RIM.

                    I’m with Dave in believing that Nokia taking drastic action by going Windows Phone is a course-change to avoid impending doom. And RIM so far is choosing not to.

                    It will be interesting to see how it goes.

                  • migo

                    Slowly failing is worse than quickly turning around.

          • yasu

            “Actually, yasu, given Nokia’s previous dominance the common man on the street is exactly what a Nokia customer was.”

            I would have sworn that the common man on the street buys his phone through a retailer or a carrier.

            “The end user is the one who buys the phone.”

            From his carrier, local or online dealer.

            “Most of them do not know about the Feb 2011 memo, they just didn’t buy Symbian phones because:

            “1) A lot of them got the N97, got burned and will take a lot of persuading to even consider a Nokia again.”

            The N97, which I agree was a bad phone, make no mistake, was released in 2009. And yet Nokia smartphone sales grew 50% to 100 million units in 2010. They grew up to Q1 2011.

            “2) Symbian isn’t as good on phones as iOS or Android.”

            Maybe, maybe not. It’s entirely up to the individual user.

            “That’s it. The memo didn’t matter really.”

            In isolation, it didn’t. In conjunction with the Feb 11th announcement, the unending stream of bad financial news popping all over the place since that very day speaks for itself.

            • Janne

              A lot of people keep repeating the Nokia Symbian sales growth story. In tow of the head preacher, Tomi, I guess. But I say it doesn’t hold water – witness RIM whom without a Feb11 is still facing the same drop off the cliff.

              What Nokia was doing up to Q4/2010 was living of their past strengths and selling cut-throat-priced S60v5′s. The market was not moving to Symbian^3, it just was not happening. While S^3 sold better than Lumia now, the consumer satisfaction was not there and the trajectory was not looking good at all for Symbian.

              Instead, allother manufacturers – except one Japanese – dumped Symbian in Q3/2010 (thus shrinking the ecosystem pretty much to Nokia). The mindshare, the marketshare for the operating system was plummeting, while Android was on a phenomenal rise. S60v5 would have failed once cheap Androids were more commonplace and the move to Symbian^3 was not going as expected either by sales or by satisfaction.

              Nokia were facing the cliff and decided to act rather than be acted upon.

              • yasu

                “A lot of people keep repeating the Nokia Symbian sales growth story. In tow of the head preacher, Tomi, I guess. But I say it doesn’t hold water – witness RIM whom without a Feb11 is still facing the same drop off the cliff.”

                From http://ronnie05.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/78i/

                Q1 2011
                Symbian-> 24.2
                RIM->14.1

                Q1 2012 (estimated)
                Symbian-> 10
                RIM->11

                “(…)Nokia were facing the cliff and decided to act rather than be acted upon.”

                And the unending stream of bad financial news popping all over the place since Feb 11th speaks for itself.

                I’m not interested in debating this, I was just answering a question.

                • Janne

                  “I’m not interested in debating this”

                  That makes two of. ;)

                  RIM’s fall may have been slower, I never disputed the fact (yes, it is a fact) that Feb11 speeded up Nokia’s downfall.

                  But now RIM’s situation is even more difficult because their savior is even more distand and unsure.

                  Even Tomi now says RIM went off the cliff. He is missing the irony of his past predictions on RIM and on Nokia.

                  At least Nokia has a possible way upwards now than just a slow decline with even more uncertain prospects.

                  That is the difference between Nokia and RIM.

                  • shallow ocean shoal

                    That Tomi guy is out of control…same penalty box as topolsky

                  • RJC

                    “At least Nokia has a possible way upwards now than just a slow decline with even more uncertain prospects.”

                    It HAD a possible way, before Feb 11 when it had the Qt strategy with MeeGo and possibility to pick Android as a third OS.

                    Now with this current WP only strategy, that possibility is gone. There’s only the Plan A and Plan A was a certain failure from the start. The only question is: Will Elop be allowed to continue his Plan A to the bitter end or will he be fired?

                    • Janne

                      I think firing Elop now would be a mistake, no matter what one believes. It might happen, but it would be a mistake. It would surely damage the current strategy and any chance of adopting a new strategy.

                      I think Nokia needs to finally stick to a plan. Adjust it, sure, make smaller changes, but just transition to something. And it is WP now.

                      They can’t continue transitioning for half a decade. They already lost a lot of time trying to fix Symbian. Now it’s cruch time. I hope WP works – with Meltemi on the side of course – because anything else would seem even more uncertain now.

                    • Jiipee

                      They have to stick to the strategy, confirm it firmly AND fire Elop to gain some credibility.

                    • noki

                      @Jiipee +++++++
                      “stick to the strategy, confirm it”+ save what can be save of nokia current sales numbers, and fire the ideot* that created the hole mess to begin with.

                    • http://s n8thegreat

                      Wrong troll.

                      Nokia still has the next evolution of Maemo in their labs, which is Meltemi. They key is this will be used for Nokia’s future very low end and cheap smartphones. The Smarterphone acquisition also ties into this.

                      If Nokia’s WP strategy completely fails, they still have the Meltemi development in the labs as an emergency. Thing is, WP won’t fail. Microsoft won’t let it happen, and Nokia won’t let it happen. Nokia is putting almost all of their effort into improving WP and making unique WP phones.

                      Also some more information for you and other non-logical posters:

                      Microsoft is making over 5 Billion USD profit *per quarter*. That’s way MORE profit than Google makes, and even MORE profit than Samsung is making. The ONLY company in the smartphone world that’s making more profit than Microsoft is Apple. Think about that for a minute. Microsoft is 2nd in the mobile market in terms of overall profit.

                      No matter how much you and others yell, or scream, or hate on the internet, Microsoft, Nokia, and Windows Phone are here to stay in the smartphone market. Period.

                      Once WP8 comes out, and Lumia sales start to take off more, than Nokia will see nice profit, and Microsoft will see their profit surge to record levels.

              • dr_zorg

                RIM was not reinventing itself with a totally new UI, a great design language and a totally new operating system which was got tremendous acclaim across the world.

                RIM is still the old BB OS and BBX isn’t even near release. Their model portfolio is lackluster and they can’t be compared on the software side to Symbian or Maemo. BB OS is close to S60 in useability.

                You are mistaken when you try to compare Nokia in Q4 2010 to RIM a few months ago.

                • Janne

                  Yes, Nokia was also using a combo of old and new. Symbian was their BB7 and MeeGo their PlayBook OS/BB10. Very good parallel the operating systems I think, as far as delays and ecosystem issues and legacy burdens go.

                  Of course the macro-economies of RIM and Nokia are different, but on smartphones both were and are failing compared to the market because they didn’t have or were late to bring competitive products to the market. And their ecosystems were lacking.

                • Dave

                  ” .. a totally new UI, a great design language and a totally new operating system which was got tremendous acclaim across the world ..”

                  You don’t agree this is perhaps a slightly rose-colored way to consider it? Qt on Symbian was never very good, despite the hard work.

                  Do you remember when the N8 finally launched you had to launch their crappy webbrowser to download a SIS package to install the Ovi store ? Like seriously ? Have you used Nokia Social ? How can anyone sign off on that and keep their job and dignity. Clunky and slow and limited and a joke.

                  (I know your point was more about Meego, but Meego was never going to replace all of Symbian, it was going to be the high end only, Symbian+Qt was the mainstream strategy)

            • migo

              Their shipments grew 50%, not their sales. There are still unsold 5230s on the shelves from 2010.

            • Mark

              They grew but…

              1) Not nearly fast enough to maintain market share.
              2) They contracted massively at the high end.

              Then low coast Android’s started appearing at the end of 2010 (think ZTE Blade, etc) and that was game over for Symbian.

              • dr_zorg

                Are the Lumia sales growing fast enough to maintain market share?

                Is the Lumia not contracted massively (almost exclusively) at the high end?

                You point to these things and say “it was bad too”, when the situation right now is infinitely worse.

                • Janne

                  Yes, looking at it in isolation. But the big question is: which plan had the best future potential? We can agree Nokia botched the Symbian transition but we know we disagree on why.

                  I think and Nokia thought, that Symbian had no future. Windows Phone has a chance at a future. That is the difference. And that is what Nokia chose.

            • migo

              But that had no effect on consumers or their purchasing habits. It wasn’t good for Nokia’s stock price, but it didn’t harm their ability to sell phones.

  • kan

    The Lumia is essentially free as an upgrade. Or you get $100 if you sign up for a new contract.

    The Touchpad fire sale taught us one thing – you sell it cheap enough it will be out of stock.

    At the price the Lumia is going for there is nothing that can compete against it. It’s a full $200 cheaper than an Iphone 4S upgrade and $300 cheaper than a new Iphone 4s contract. These are large amounts.

    It’s $449.99 off contract compared to the Iphones 4s at $649.99.

    It was obviously selling better than they expected as no-one expected a $100 discount for a minor bug that would be resolved in 2 or 3 days.

    • Heron

      And that’s pretty good for now IMO. Some good press for the L900 and the goodwill they get is gonna do Nokia wonders when Apollo hits and we have some strong launches for the coming devices like the rumored E7-succesor for Sprint, PureView for Verizon, etc.

    • migo

      That’s the thing, it’s $200 cheaper outright and on contract, and largely has the same capabilities. It’s maybe more in line with the iPhone 4 than the 4S, but given the difference between the 4 and 4S is hard to tell, it still competes well.

      The 710 is also a similarly good deal, as price wise it undercuts the still available 3GS, and is definitely a way better phone.

      Either provide a way better phone at the same price, or provide a good enough one at a lower price and you get sales. That’s really true for anything.

      This shows that Nokia finally recognises the value of their phones, and doesn’t overprice them like they did their Symbian phones, and also that customers won’t be disappointed with what they got. People are much more willing to forgive shortcomings if they didn’t pay much. My Lumia 710 has drawbacks, but I don’t mind because at $255 (no contract), any phone I buy would have drawbacks, so it’s the positives that stand out. At $600, I’d want a phone to be absolutely perfect, but there really is no such thing at the moment.

  • kan

    I think this talk about Verizon Lumia is rumour. AT@T has committed to spending upto $150m to market the Lumia – it would only do that if it has some form of exclusivity. Otherwise all they are doing is the early heavy marketing to establish a brand and then letting Verizon to free ride off this after Lumia has been established as a viable alternative.

    Whilst AT@t grew fat and perhaps lazy off the Iphone sales whilst it had exclusivity Verizon was busy buying licences and building out its network and creating the Droid brand by pushing Android handsets.

    Whilst AT@T has a mix of 63% Iphone and 19% Android smartphone subs. Verizon mix is 25% Iphone and 57% Android. Remarkably both have the same 82% of all smartphone subscribers are Iphone or Android users.

    RIM has between 10-13% with Windows and others making up about 5-7%

    The only possible way where AT@T would be spending $150m and not getting exclusivity is if MS and /or Nokia gave them the marketing budget to spend.

    • migo

      It makes sense that Verizon would get one too. They might not market it as much (after all, the DROID is their baby), but they’ll have one. It won’t be the 900, but it might be an 810 or 720, or 6 months down the road a 910.

    • Dave

      The $150M is very much debated right now though, I think the concensus right now is that it’s a few tens of M at most.

      I would like to see the 800 also introduced, maybe t-mobile. It’s a gorgeous little thing, complements the 900 very well (bit smaller)

  • Prasenjit Singh Bist

    It’s rather painful to see each day a step towards irrelevance
    for a once mighty company and still a
    loved brand called Nokia.

    I know you have a more detailed insight of market and sales channel
    but to me and millions of fans it looks like Nokia is losing it hard and bad .

    I have pointed out as do million others in my mails that I
    sent you and I really admire you as a person that you took time out to reply
    back. Thank you very much!!

    The Biggest mistake I
    believe you are making today is not cashing in on the android wave where
    Samsung is beating you, just like Chinese and Korean OEMS you could have

    Sucked money out of Google ecosystem, what you have to do is
    to ask your industrial designers to design fancy android handsets.

    Just design a N9
    shaped Android with ICS and see the sales.

    I believe it’s about profitability and making money in
    business of course in an ethical way. I strongly believe ur windows phone strategy
    and MSFT partnership. Full support to you.

    But I hate the way u handled symbian or ur PR dept. did not
    take enough actions to handle it.

    They say today’s Smartphone is tomorrow’s feature phone and
    then going by those standards where do you stand with s40. S40 is an utter crap. It’s a cancerous tumor.

    Any asha phone
    under INR 6,000 in India in dual sim category is a game changer but wait it’s
    there and there only s40 is useful it’s a crap after that.

    When symbian was going strong u had wide range of smart
    devices across multiple price points you had Nokia 5233 a true Smartphone at Rs 6000 in India, but you had
    software and UI problems.

    Still u were addressing all price points. S40 is no Smartphone
    and people do not like fake stuffs.

    Is your Indian sales team not telling you the real market
    condition, please come to india see ur self there’s a massacre. This people may
    be then fooling you not letting you know the truth. U had a

    Great reentry into dual sim but what about other categories
    u are losing out. Respected Sir, if u can afford to put a 1Ghz CPU in asha why cannot
    u design and sell phones like Nokia 500 with symbian belle. Why can’t u rebrand
    it tell ppl we are launching a QT framework forget the OS its complete ecosystem
    as we said to connect the next billion
    compatible with maemo, meego, symbian existing apps

    etc.

    Today Android phones with dual sim are available from Samsung, lava, micromax. And u
    know why Chinese and Koreans are winning they are not trying to do everything
    on own or swim against the tide.

    Samsung just gives what people want. Okay u want android
    candy take it, windows candy here it is and see they are getting what they want
    and u dream truck loads of green dollars.

    U have Nokia N( but u won’t sell it to all markets why ???? I loved it when u
    guys said its Qt flagship so going by ur strategy for next billion please sell
    it to more countries start promoting Qt everywhere

    What irritates us is that u guys have resources to make
    profitability but you guys won’t why?????????

    A man walks in asks for Nokia phone, sees the Lumia says no
    and there is big NO TO NOKIA but think N9 was available or even better belle
    rebranded stuff at 6000.

    There are 3 lollipops(baits), if u do not take one u take
    one of them and Nokia gets money.

    Promote Lumia range its awesome but Not to a point that u go
    bankrupt let the money keep coming and use that money to kill ur competition. Sell
    android if required ask ur mobile phone team to do it

    Pretend that for u guys android is worthy only for low end
    phones and ur all top end is windows, and use the money from low end android
    sell to strengthen Lumia.

    U promised Qt on low end and let me tell you I am also
    working as a developer and a computer engineer by education, u can never ever
    have Qt running on s40 a java crap and never on its ISA

    Architecture they are incompatible. So, u have a in-house
    product called maemo harmattan u are
    spending on QT u call it future, u are spending on symbian u are using GHz chip
    sets but still won’t

    Use ur assets rather u will sell s40 crap. U know in pure
    straight words s40 make any guy other than a dual sim buyer puke its ugly. When
    someone can get a dual sim android Smartphone do u think ppl will buy a asha,
    every single penny spent on s40 is a crime a sin.

    Please reconsider ur strategy it’s not a u-turn but still a
    clever way to try other options that make sense….

    U may be pinning high hopes on Apollo , but that’s not making any sense u never
    know what will the market dynamics be, rather u could have refreshed ur
    entirely ugly low end with some spicy new models. And maintained an income
    stream.

    • Mark

      Uh… did you read the article? This is a positive. It’s not a painful day at all.

      • Fred McMonroe

        His opinions or article as you’ve said are so popular among Nokia users everywhere that I recognize this is the market trend. Ignoring the market trend(s) is gambling and unreasonable risk. Still I think this is customer who pays all bills, and that is why ought to be served. Claims are source of data for strategic management and early identification of problems. India is in BRICK, this is big market. Political sympathies/antipathies are not good for business at all. Seems to me Nokia for unknown reasons don’t listen to customers and don’t create any predictable future for products hence customers hence company.
        So I am answering for your question: Yes I have read that, but what Nokia has understood from many posts like this “article” is more interesting question.

        • Janne

          Well, one could argue the iPhone was the ultimate gamble against market trends. Let’s not count the Lumia out yet.

          Having said that, I do worry about India and Lumia.

          • migo

            The iPhone wasn’t so much a gamble because they set their expectations at something they knew they could get, and it exceeded expectations more than they could have imagined (after they adjusted the price to appropriately reflect the value).

            • Harangue

              Also, the iPhone didn’t matter if they succeeded or not. It wasn’t their main productline (yet) anyway. I’m even willing to bet that Apple lost money on the iPhone all through the first year at least, luckily they had iMac, iPod and whatnot lines to compensate for losses.

              • migo

                Speaking of iPod, the iPhone was designed to cannibalise the iPod because they realised that more and more people would ditch dedicated MP3 players to go to phones. That also helped the iPhone gain marketshare in a way that other phones really couldn’t.

  • radu

    I read a lot of comments and honesty, I cannot understand you. It supossed to be just Nokia fans here, but many of you say that Nokia will be over.
    L900 is not a success?! Is no 1 in many stores, in at&t store also, what could you expect more than that?! We talk about a phone that has not hisht end hw, has a new operating system, and that is received well.
    L800 and L710 sold in milons, maybe not too many millions, but millions !
    I think is a good start! Look at others phone manufactures, except apple and Samsung is more that others. Wait a little then judge. Nobody will get a grudge market share in 6 months, even if phone is revolutionary.
    Some people that want a different phone maybe will read your comments and think that if even Nokia fans don’t like that, what should they buy it?
    I recomand you just to try before you speak, and not speak about something you did not even touch.
    I play with L800 and I really enjoy it. I want to buy it today.

    • Janne

      A lot of people are still not over Feb11 unfortunately. Some of it is and was warranted for sure, but now I think it is just dragging on too long. I guess they will keep boiling over it forever or until they move on to a new interest. I wish it weren’t so. One does not have to be a blind Microsoft on Windows Phone fan to enjoy good time here and whatever Nokia products might strike their fancy.

      A little bit of positive attitude goes a long way in making this a nice community. Your positive message is appreciated. :)

    • Harangue

      Being a Nokia fan means many things apparantly, you can hate certain parts of Nokia and still be a Nokia fan. Oh, the wonders of the world :P

      Anyway, like you say; ‘Lumia’s sold in the millions.
      3 million times the purported 225 ASP equates to: roughly 500 million in turnover. Pulling in some data from Q3 ’11 reveals that smart devices had a net sales of 2.3 billion. A rough estimate means that the Lumia devices count for around a fifth to a quarter of the net sales already.

      Given the Lumia line consist of 3 devices right now (710,800 and just recently the 900) the perfomance isn’t all bad. Symbian devices were out in force with around at least 6 to 7 times that what the Lumia line is currently offering.

      By no means does the above imply that Lumia sales are good, but it does mean that unit sales alone isn’t the yardstick to go by.

      • Harangue

        BTW; used 2.5 million as a calculating number, not the 3 million. 2.5 million should be on the safe side for quarterly sales over the past quarter.

        • noki

          usually over 2 million means under 2.5 so 2.5 is not on the safe side…. 2.2 would be a more reasonable number

          • Dave

            1+2=3

    • USER

      +11111111111

  • Janne

    The media is calling for Elop’s resignation all over the place in Finland. I can see it now: Board fires Elop, Nokia spirals into another transition lasting an unspecified time – and then truly dies.

    They need to complete this transition and not start panicking with the analysts. Lumia is just getting started, it is way too soon to say if it doesn’t work. If they need to use a plan B at some point, it needs to come quietly, not as another bomb.

    I hope the boards keeps its cool.

    • Harangue

      If it were to happen it would be insane. Just read what mr. Ahonen suggest, he even says that Nokia’s situation can be fixed in just one quarter?!? Really?

      One thing that is striking is that he all of a sudden says the problem lies in the distribution network that doesn’t want to sell the Lumia’s. It isn’t about the product anymore which wasn’t up to scratch according to Tomi a few months ago. After all the Lumia’s came without MMS, NFC, and all other sorts of stuff that is now seemingly irrelevant to his analysis.

      A reseller (distribution) boycott is apparantly due to MS buying Skype, says Tomi. The only real evidence for that lies in little uptake by carriers and little promotion, is suggested.

      However, AT&T is going big on the 900 launch, Verizon is showing signs of countering AT&T by all of a sudden pushing out the 8107 update which AT&T has been mum about. Also, in my country the 800 has been up front in nearly every ad placed BY CARRIERS.

      A boycott might be there on some levels, but the signs aren’t saying it is as widespread as is suggested by Ahonen.

      • Harangue

        To add to that, if Nokia were to change again in strategy and CEO, they will need to come up with a great product. Otherwise I’m done and it will be hello Apple.

        • noki

          Can you at east admit that elop is severely incompetent, and since he took over things escalated down at an incredible pace???

          The burning platforms memo is a disaster of incomparable magnitude… he was hired to fix tings not to make them worse…but he did not made them worse he made them way way worse.

          • J

            You realize you are asking people to admit he’s extremely incompetent in an article titled “Lumia 900 sales Exceeding Expectations”?

            I know I know, some how that means things are worse than before or some stupid shit I haven’t heard yet.

            Also as true Nokia fans are we too blind to realize where the company was going even before Elop?

            It’s honestly entertaining hearing the new shit people come up with. It’s like cockroaches you find one way to silence them and they just come back in a more evolved even more disgusting form.

          • Janne

            I think we all can agree that Elop made things worse for the short-term. But of course Nokia internally was also hugely a sleep and in need of a rude awakening. Maybe of the actions Elop has done were warranted, maybe many weren’t. I think the Symbian transition was miscommunicated and mismanaged. However, Lumia strategy might still be a good thing. I like the products, anyway.

            In any case, I don’t think Nokia should rush to sacking anybody at this point. It will only add uncertainty. They will need to see this strategy to a point where really it can be said if it is gaining traction. It is way too soon to say one way or the other.

            Now, of course that doesn’t mean the board can’t panic and fire Elop. But I’m hoping they won’t. Not now.

          • Harangue

            If we are talking about the burning platforms memo and how the introduction of WP without any available devices was done, then yes; he has been incompetent, albeit not severely.

            The WP strategy was and is a very high risk play. It’s just when I look at the alternatives I’m hard pressed to see that someone else or some other strategy would have made or kept things better.

            Right now, what is done is done. There is no sense in looking back. Looking forward though is what we can do.

            So, looking forward, what effect would changing the CEO and with it probably the strategy as well have. There is nothing but uncertainty and presumably failure if changes are made. Mind you, the same thing can happen to the current strategy as well.

            The thing that is just annoying to hear is ‘analysts’ falling over eachother to say how bad Nokia is doing and that the WP strategy is failing allround. There is often some truth in the matter, however Q2 and Q3 is the time conclusions can be drawn.

            Eventhough the telecoms industry moves at a blistering pace 6 months is hardly enough time to determine whether or not something is a succes. (Launch of devices is the start of the year of course, not the announcement.)

            In the end I do agree that mistakes were made, big mistakes even. But for the well being of Nokia it would be sensible to keep going for a while and be supportive rather than cry for change after such a shortwhile.

          • migo

            He’s not incompetent at all. OPK was incompetent.

    • noki

      Just admit its pretty hard to make things go this bad….

      All nokia sales plunging in to ZERO.

      Lumia range still far from reaching any meaningful quota, despite a massive campaign.

      Some one as to take responsibility for the sinking ship…

      You say the right word “transition” , what elop did was no “transition” its was the kiling of what nokia had in hope that somthing else would pick up from there…that is not a Transition, it was more of a suicide…

      Hey I’m not saying nokia needs to give up on WP, think that the only way to go now. since it burned all the bridges to anything but WP.
      BUT its needs a different CEO to say in a believable way that NOKIA current product line is not dead, this is what is killing nokia, including LUMIA range.

      Lumias are not competitive in NOKIA main markets and wont be for a long long time, Nokia needed its selling portfolio selling up until WP is ready to take over the full product range…

      • Janne

        Even if it would be as hard as you say (I don’t think it is, though), firing Elop now would be even worse. It would send Nokia into another very uncertain place and torpedo any chance of the current Lumia strategy working – and at the same time make any new strategy infinitely harder.

        If Lumia doesn’t gain traction over the coming quarters (I think Q4, Q1 were somewhat okay but of course it needs to do a lot better), then the plan B needs to be nurtured in quiet, slowly making first tactical changes (maybe announce a highend Meltemi in some markets, make marketing changes) – not by dramatic changes within the company.

        Nokia has tried two major transitions in the past four years to move on from the Symbian legacy. I don’t think they can afford a third major bomb. It would very likely in my opinion make things even worse. What? Start another wait for the next big thing instead of Lumia?

        That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if they fired Elop. I just hope they won’t – not now, if you have to do it at a time when the strategy is working or a plan B is up and running. Not now when the transition is just starting to get somewhere.

        • noki

          Delusional*, time for plan B to enter into action was Now…
          All nokia can do is to cut losses and the bleeding, and can only do that by dismissing elop,
          and bringing some one credible enough to stop the sales plunge on NOKIA current product range…
          Someone to present a believable “exyting” future (insert any type of BS here) for the entire product line in NOKIA, including WP…
          Force Microsoft into allowing Qt into WP would be a good start to secure some of that BS…

          (don’t really mean you but the concept you present)

          • Janne

            noki: I can respect your opinion, but I can not agree with it. I think both of us want the best for Nokia and thus for us Nokia users, and want the next steps to be whatever is necessary for Nokia to do well.

            In that sense, I could only see drastic action useful if Nokia were to be better off after drastic action than a steady course. And after four years of transition at Nokia, I can’t support the idea that a drastic action AGAIN and the uncertainty of yet another transition could possibly be better for Nokia than seeing the current course further.

            I think Nokia really needs to finish a transition before even thinking of starting a new one. And if a plan B is needed (certainly it exists) then introduce it piece-meal through expanding, say, a Meltemi line of products along-side the Lumia efforts. Dramatic move would danger both.

            I can’t believe the people who were against Feb11 (and most of us think Nokia failed in the Symbian ramp-down strategy) are now suggesting something similarly dramatic – and changing of CEO would be just that. I don’t think Nokia can handle more dramatic transitions right now, at least I don’t think they’d be better off after yet another new transition even if they would survive it.

            I think what you and the analysts are saying is also a major problem of the quarter-economy. People are too fixated on quantitative quarterly numbers and lack long-term patience or the ability to look beyond the quantitative and to the qualitative. Lumia is just out the door, only one full quarter out. To call it quits now would be absolute insanity. And unfortunately replacing the CEO now would endanger the whole Lumia ramp-up.

            I say Nokia needs stability of clear strategic focus that the market and the customers can trust and look forward to. Lumia provides that path and Nokia has good plans for the feature phone market too (which is actually the one really disappointing news of Q1). Sonic and Meltemi can’t come soon enough.

            Look at it this way: Okay, tomorrow Elop is fired, the new CEO comes in, announces whatever he does. It will take time for the new products to be made. We wait even more, all the while Lumia suffers from the uncertainty and the fact it no longer has the full backing of the company. In such panic moves lies a real danger for Nokia, considering they already did two: a new CEO and a new strategy in 2010-2011, and before that a new strategy in 2009-2010… transition after transition, chaos after chaos, nothing gets finished, eternal incomplete.

            No, I say they need to continue on this course. If it doesn’t get traction, they need to adjust but not through some dramatic bombshell. If they need to change CEO, they need to do it at a more stable time.

            In the meanwhile, Cyan Lumia 900 has raised one place on the Amazon.com phone best sellers to 3rd place. Black Lumia 900 is still holding steady at 1st place with 5 starts and more reviews than Galaxy Nexus at 3,5 stars.

            • noki

              what freaking transition,??? transition is a very different thing, transition would be a good thing, NOKIA did not transition…

              What nokia did was to kill what was selling and hoping that the new dog food would sell instead..

              I’ think NOKIA is far from the point were it can make substantial changes… all nokia can do is present the message in a slightly different way, like it should have from the beguiling, secure a tangible future to people buying a symbian/n9 device now, (insert some ecosystem BS here), commit to bring developments in those platforms to WP via Qt. assure the future of S40 with the same cohesive platform so S40 stops bleeding.

              Problem is that even if elop would present this no one would believe him now, as its so radically different from the speech he as given so far….

              So basically what I’m saying is different ceo same strategy as elop, different way of presenting it…

              Elop presentation of the strategy was to focused on the merits of WP and Microsoft, that had a huge impact on nokias bread and butter, we need some one to say that nokias bread and butter is in great shape and makes sense in nokias future. WP ecosystem…

            • noki

              I also wonder how come you choose to read one what i’m saying that nokia needs a new strategy, I have said before, that train as long gone, nokia needs to survive the eminent death…. So all it can do is comunicate things a bit differently and secure Qt on wp so that the S40 line as a perceivable future…

              Unless you think that a new ceo would immediately kill LUMIA range????

          • Harangue

            The thing is, which I think is often forgotten, the time it takes to develop a new device.

            Imagine Nokia going with Android. Yes, they could make the N9 into an Android device, but going by other Android handsets on similar HW the experience will be sub 2012 standards. Nokia would need to develop a new device in order to be ‘know’ make that a year before anything it available. Time Nokia just doesn’t have.

            Another idea could be to bring back Symbian or Harmattan. First option would also be a sub par experience and harder as well since development has been outsourced now.

            Going Harmattan would never work either. Sure, there is some demand for the N9. But not enough by far to sustain Nokia and would normal users go for it? After all it is lacking heavily in the app department, which is a major hurdle now a days.

            There is basically just one option and that is to keep going with WP. A thing that would help would be getting Qt on WP as you suggest. Who knows, maybe there is already soemthing in the works for Apollo. That is the thing right now, we don’t know what Nokia has been able to do with the next iteration of WP. Maybe they have been able to suggest loads of things that could help sell it.

            Whatever Nokia does, I just hope it succeeds.

            • Shilow

              ["Sure, there is some demand for the N9. But not enough by far to sustain Nokia and would normal users go for it? After all it is lacking heavily in the app department, which is a major hurdle now a days."]

              You’re basing that on “now”, how do you think that’s fair.
              3x Maemo6x devices under your belt & more true MeeGo x86/arm ones in the pipeline is a very different picture to now.
              The dev env. would also be far more lively than it is now.
              Prolly not as pumped-up as WP’s, but possibly healthy enough.
              Esp. as other hw vendors were showing interest w/their 1st raft of meego (real) devices.

              Would’ve been more fortuitous to wind-up Symbian even quicker (but w/o the silly memo & other such actions) & juggle Maemo/MeeGo+WP.

            • noki

              “Qt on WP as you suggest. Who knows, maybe there is already soemthing in the works for Apollo”

              If They would have secured such a thing the need to go public with that NOW, NOKIA is bleeding hard. as you said ” Sure, there is some demand for the N9. But not enough by far to sustain Nokia “the exact same thing can be said about LUMIAS 3 Milion devices sold so far with 3 phones VS 1.2/1.5 million with just one…

              So nokia needs to stop the plunge on sales number NOW!! that implies assuring there is some sort of future for all platforms…

              P.S. in not saying nokia needs to dramatically change anything, just needs to stop killing itself publicly. Symbina can still die by 2016 meego can have no more terminals… but nokia needs all the sales it can get, so stop publicly killing them.

    • snoflake

      I agree with you Janne, the only hitch is that by the time it becomes apparent it isn’t working Q4 2012/ Q1 2013 it will be too late to do anything about i.e. by the time we get real picture Nokia will either be alive or dead it’s a binary event. There will be no chance to adjust or try a new strategy, so either Elop goes now and they introduce someone less abrasive or they sink or float with him tied to the ships wheel. If he’s there in Dec 2012 either they will be clearing out all the desks and filing cabinets in Nokia house or he will be in charge of a viable variant of Dell/Lenovo.

      There is of course the random element of Elop being in charge of Microsoft’s new Finnish smartphone unit. If anybody else like Google or Samsung (Apple even) puts a bid in for Nokia and they are cheap despite encumberances then Microsoft will have to bid for them, I don’t think they can afford for their main (only real) partner to feel into “enemy” hands. So far they have been able to get all they want and Nokia to suck itself dry supporting MS’s ecosystem without risking any real money that is unlikely to carry on for much longer with Nokia as distressed as it currently is.

  • noki

    in Financial Times….. “The twin blow left the share price down more than 18 per cent, the worst one-day decline this year, and has led to some market speculation that Stephen Elop, the chief executive, or other senior management figures might resign if problems continue.”

    • Jesse

      The problem for everyone is that the Iphone has the momentum, the cash surpluss, the developers and will not be stopped overnight. Regardless of how anyone feels about their OS or their products they are a force no one in the market will be able to compete with over the short term.

      An IOS only app until just a few days ago called Instagram was sold for a billion dollars. If that doesn’t put all of this into perspective I am not sure what will.

      Personally I am not an Iphone fan and feel the actual phone excperience of communication over social networks, texting and calls is not very good but this is a world where apps dominate and they own that market.

      Hopefully Windows 8 will change that, but for now Apple has little competition. Their phone and tablet apps are just so much better in most cases.

    • Dave
      • noki

        just a few months ago the same guys were saying that nokia would reach 18% of smartphone penetration by the end of the year with WP.

        • Dave

          The same guys? sure. Did you even read it?

          You can find opinions either way.

  • Janne

    Nokia Lumia 900 still the *only* phone in Amazon.com Cell Phones & Accessories best sellers top 100 (other phones sell less than the cheap accessories in the top 100). Five days now. And holding at 1. and 3. places in Cell Phones with Service Plans best sellers.

    If anything, let’s comment Elop for bringing out products with Nokia labels on them that can sell like this in the U.S. Even if the Lumia 900 were to flop (which wouldn’t be a good thing, it would be very bad), already Lumia seems to be launching better in U.S. than I guess any Nokia smartphone… ever?

    • Janne

      comment => commend Elop

    • Carbontubby

      If you’re trying to succeed in the US market, tying up with the carriers is the only way. Nokia are doing just that and yes, Elop should be commended for having the best launch for any Nokia product in the US to date.

      The US may not be the world’s largest telecoms market but it has the most influential media and the most savvy consumers of mobile services. It’s a good place to start for Nokia as it rebrands and rebuilds itself.

    • Jesse

      When I was in the ATT store two of them were sold while I was there. The marketing is really quite good and they are giving them away for free. Plus they gave Lumia 900′s to all the ATT sales people who for the most part seem really happy with the devices.

      The only real problem is that I was at the ATT store returning mine because of hardware issues and performance.

      I think first time buyers will be happy, especially if they have never had a smartphone before. I can’t see this device directly competing with the Iphone or the higher end Android devices but I see it doing well in the mid level range.

      Nokia was good about pushing updates out for the 800 so hopefully they will do the same for the 900 and so far they are on the ball with an update already coming.

      I might go back if they fix the touch screen, data and camera. It has the potential to be a great phone but right now it doesn’t feel as fast as my Lumia 800 or HTC Radar.

  • Dave

    Perhaps interesting to remember that a little over a year ago Nokia was doing this big push with an AT&T developer contest, leading up to a supposed re-entry into the US with .. the X7. It was cancelled, officially by Nokia, unofficially by AT&T.

    Look at the X7 with the state of Symbian at that time, this is pre-Anna, but let’s say Anna was ready.

    It would not have stood a snowball’s chance in hell.

    Now look at the Lumia 900, and how it’s doing.

    • Janne

      Elop said at the Nokia 2011 annual general meeting that the reason AT&T X7 was cancelled because it failed the operators consumer study group testing. It was ready to go, final checks… And boom, people hated it. No go.

      Symbian.

  • npo4

    I just hope their sales expectations for optimistic not pessimistic…

    At least it’s doing well though, and hopefully this will lift Nokia’s share price aggain.

  • Janne

    Lumia 900 Cyan is back in 2nd place on Amazon.com’s Phones with Plans bestsellers. Lumia 900 Black has kept 1st place solidly. The reviews are embarrassingly good.

    • Janne

      Apparently Lumia 900 Black and Cyan also hold the Amazon.com two tops spots in Top Rated in Cell Phones & Accessories. So quite good reviews.

    • Keith

      It wasn’t at number 3 very long before it went back up to 2, though it is close. At this time, the black is 107 on the phones and accessories list, the cyan is 143 and the Droid is 153.

      The reviews are out of this world and also noteworthy is the amount of reviews the 900s are getting. Currently the black 900 has 164 reviews and has passed every device in the top 50 except for the HTC Thunderbolt which has 207 reviews. If not for the splitting of the colours, it would have passed it as well. The Amazon best sellers lists are highly regarded so this is quite amazing so far.