Rant- Rumors: European Carriers Not Keen on Lumias?

| April 17, 2012 | 196 Replies

I read the following stories on several other sites; but wasn’t sure it warranted a mention due to the fact that not a single solid name/source was mentioned in them- all that’s listed is “un-named source, Mobile executive, Carrier company…) so of course it could be a load of bull..

I’ll start with the obviously ridiculous one; and if this is indeed a true quote then this mysterious “Carrier Executive” really has no idea how business works:

Four of the major cellphone carriers in Europe say Nokia’s Windows Phone-powered Lumia smartphones would be “would be much easier to sell” if it ran the Android operating system

Say Whaaatttt??? Seriously? I’d like to know what went through this guys mind before he came up with that, maybe it was dinner time, maybe this quote was taken during happy hour at a pub..  To be clear I DO NOT have a business major or any sort of economic degree; but I’m pretty sure that offering the same OS that’s being offered with over a 150 different phone models, by over 20 different OEMs doesn’t really help your chances of selling. Sure the OS gets alot of publicity but the main thing going for Nokia right now is how it stands out amongst other WP; slap on Android and what do you have? a single core phone that can barely run Froyo- is this guy serious?

Everyone knows that Nokia aren’t exactly the best at making the Latest high-end spec phones- which is why WP is the way to go, and as At&t have proven if you really want to sell WP you can, if they complain that it’s not selling I’m pretty sure that’s just lazy marketing from their part- Microsoft has been pushing WP all over the place and I’m sure if a carrier really wanted to try and sell WP they would have no problems. The main issue is that they’re just too lazy to bother pushing a new OS which isn’t the Lumias/WPs fault it’s the carriers own fault.

And besides don’t both the Lumia 800 & the 710 top most of the selling charts for carries in Europe?

Ridiculous claim Number two:

“no one comes into the store and asks for a Windows smartphone.”

Which once again is because no carrier has bothered to try and market it (list one of the multiple stories where phone stores have guided people AWAY from WP devices towards an iPhone or a Droid).

Once again it’s not a fact that WP Can’t sell it all comes down to the fact that Carriers DON’T want to bother selling it- and then apparently complain that nobody wants the OS- Direct point:

Another problem it seems is that stores aren’t keen to sell the handsets to consumers. According to the report, Lumia handsets weren’t prominently displayed at a France Telecom store in Paris, with the sales clerk offering shoppers iPhones first, then Android handsets.

And the grand finale that really just proves that whoever this “carrier Representative” is has no idea what the hell he’s talking about (similar to point #1):

If the Lumia with the same hardware came with Android in it and not Windows, it would be much easier to sell,” he added.

Should I even bother? 512 Ram and 1.4 GHZ processor with a wVGA (217 ppi)screen running Android..Hmmmmmm let’s put that in perspective the HTC one S (not the top of the line X- but the S) which is priced close to the same range (a bit higher depending where you look) has a dual core 1.5ghz processor with 1 GB ram  and a similar 4.3inch screen but with 256ppi; and that’s not the flagship device while the Lumia is…Imagine pitting it against the One X on the same table Quad-core 720p screen; I can practically see the Android Lumias flying off the shelves.

So all in all what on earth was this “Source” smoking?

Sources 1, 2, 3 - thanks to everyone who tipped this.

Category: Nokia, Rant, Rumours, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.

Comments (196)

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  1. dr_zorg says:

    Perhaps they did not want to be named? After all Nokia made deals with the carriers, an officially made statement like that could be grounds for dismissal after all.

    Also it’s funny that neither you nor anyone else in the WP camp really puts into doubt the POSITIVE news on Lumia. Only on the negatives do you mention that “it’s a load of bull”.

    Consistency is a fine quality, I hope to see more of it some day.

    • Aliqudsi says:

      true there is going to be some bias coming from me as a nokia fan and a WP user- but on the other hand I was almost prosecuted for suggesting that the out of stock lumias was due to reflashing rather than blowout sales…

    • Janne says:

      It just occurred to me, dr_zorg is not interested in a balanced discussion. He just repeats his lines and spiteful comments no matter how much others give in.

      Almost no positive Lumia news goes without huge disclaimers here these days. Yet he says no doubt is ever put on them. That is simply not true.

      No, what dr_zorg seems to want is for Lumia to fail and everyone be miserable in the meanwhile. So he can say I told you so.

      Did I get it right? Happy now?

      • dr_zorg says:

        It strikes me that you either don’t read what others write (specifically what I write) or that you simply do not understand what has been written.

        What is a balanced discussion for you?

        If it’s saying “everything is grey”, then I’m not interested in such discussion as that view is patently false. There are facts that are facts that are facts. You can’t get around them. We’ve been through this before, and yet you still expect me to accede to your “points” that have no bearing on the facts.

        Lumia is not selling well. (fact)

        I do not want it to fail, but it HAS failed and IS failing. That is a fact and I’ve had little to do with that.

        All you do is spout drivel 24/7 on here about “what ifs” and “maybes”. Sorry, I’m not interested in that kind of “balanced” discussion.

        Nokia is in a deep hole and there’s no “what if” or “maybe” about it.

        And yes, I’ll give you as many “i told you sos” as I see fit. Because you’ve been giving me your “what ifs” and “maybes” without asking if I want them or not :)

        Anyway, we’ve been over our differences several times in the past. Once again I must remind you that if you don’t like a comment of mine, do not reply to it. If something is black I’ll call it black, end of story. Oh, and I told you so.

        • Janne says:

          You can not first say good news are not doubted and then in the next message say painting things grey is bad. Either doubt aka shades of grey is good or it is not. I say it is bout only good, it is the only way to ever have a possibility of approaching some level of truth. People on this blog have gone to extreme lengths to out disclaimers and ifs and buts to news to not generate trolling response.

          And yet here you are.

          • dr_zorg says:

            I am saying that if you paint one grey, then paint the other. Be consistent.

            “People on this blog have gone to extreme lengths to out disclaimers and ifs and buts to news to not generate trolling response.”

            Not really. Out of n+1 “positive” news without a disclaimer, there’s maybe one or two with one.

            Moreover, we KNOW that a large part of those news were proven to be FALSE – yet there have been no disclaimers on those either prior, during or after.

            You are trying to say that editors here don’t have a pro-Lumia bias? You would be lying if you said that, they do.

            Jay is not objective, neither is Ali – and (surprise) neiher am I. And neither are you.

            “And yet here you are.”

            Yes, so are you. Is there a problem?

            • Janne says:

              I am consistent, unless time changes my opinions of course. The way you read me, well, that may differ if you choose to read only parts. It is your quest to put me in a labelled box that puzzles you. You are an extreme thinker when it comes to Nokia, you can not understand how someone could not be. Either they are with you or against you kind of thing… But there are shades of grey in the real world.

              I would say the editors here have a pro-Nokia bias. And yes, I am the first to admit so do I. And sure, people “left” in the Nokia camp are people mostly who are OK with the current strategy goals. Others have gone or gone trolling. So yes, Lumia is treated here as the next big Nokia thing. It hasn’t always, everyone up to and including Jay got through their own thought process after Feb11.

              We are open and honest about the fact that we want Nokia to succeed. Apparently you want them to fail. Points to you, hope you have fun with that wish. Must be a nice life raining on other peoples small parades as a mission. We know the good Lumia news are anecdotal and maybe insignificant, but why kill the joy. This is a hobby. Not investment advice forum.

              And it was you who said “nor ANYONE” ever puts doubt on positive Lumia news. Anyone. That is a big word. You chose to use it. Not me. I would have probably gone with something… what’s the word…

              More grey.

              • dr_zorg says:

                Yes, you are right of course, I am an extreme thinker when it comes to Nokia. I’ve always been a mobile enthusiast and had the fates been of a different mind, I might have ended up developing for Symbian in my time. Now I am glad I didn’t, as my work’s fruits would have come to such an end.

                Yes, I am passionate about Nokia, the OLD Nokia.

                ” Apparently you want them to fail.”

                You lie. Show me a single instance where I have said that. I want Microsoft to fail, that is true. But Nokia did not need and does not need Microsoft to stay alive.

                I have also said before (you must be new here) that I have no problem with WP on Nokia’s phones, but I do have a problem with ONLY WP on Nokia’s phones. Capiche? Is that simply enough said?

                So please, stop insulting my intelligence by supposing I don’t remember what and where I have said before.

                • Janne says:

                  ^ Funny, that last sentence and then you go offering me the “anyone” response below. Hilarious. :D

                • Ajit says:

                  ” But Nokia did not need and does not need Microsoft to stay alive. ”

                  100% agreed… Microsoft themselves are a sinking ship when it comes to Windows Phone!

              • dr_zorg says:

                Regarding “ANYONE” – see my answer a few posts below.

                • Janne says:

                  Intellectual dishonesty, disregarded. You know what you meant no matter if you admit it or not.

                  • dr_zorg says:

                    Funny to see you talking about dishonesty. You are the master of all those tricks.

                    • Janne says:

                      Big words, I’m not sure such broad statements are helpful or accurate. But do I make mistakes too? Sure. Point them out when I do so we can disregard my mistakes or even possible dishonesty.

                      But as for “camps”, you know what I meant. No need to be coy about it.

        • Janne says:

          As for fact dr_zorg, is this a fact:

          “Also it’s funny that neither you nor anyone else in the WP camp really puts into doubt the POSITIVE news on Lumia. Only on the negatives do you mention that “it’s a load of bull”.”

          …ANYONE else…?

          A fact?

          And next question: Why is it that you only seem to comment on negative news or negative spin on positive news? Are here only on that one mission, not to enjoy Nokia products? Ah I forget, you already said you are on that mission.

          Hope you are happy with that. Now, go write some plans for Nokia with your pal Tomi. Maybe we can bring back Symbian. Today.

          • dr_zorg says:

            I am concerned about Nokia as a company and the direction they have taken.

            I do not agree with it.

            I will never agree with it.

            And I will post my opinion on it when and where I see fit.

            If you have a problem with it.. well I can’t help you there pal. You’ll just have to take it the same way I take most of your drivel – without comment.

            Also, I recall a very nice Finnish proverb:

            “Se koira älähtää johon kalikka kilahtaa”.

            The fact that you, of all people, are so butthurt about my rather innocent posts tells me I’m onto something.

            • Janne says:

              Yes, I am quite familiar with the misuse of said proverb.

              You know why it hurts? Because I’ve spent countless posts trying to paint a balanced picture, which has included not of “grey” in every white (as well as every black too).

              And then a person who has been the recipient of so many of them, says “nor anybody” puts any doubt on positive news.

              Can you honestly say, I haven’t put in doubt? Can you honestly say Jay hasn’t put in doubt?

              And then ask yourself this: Could this be a reason for the reaction, instead of an insinuation that it hurts because I felt guilty.

              Take a moment.

              • Janne says:

                Typo: included not of “grey” => included lot of “grey”

              • dr_zorg says:

                * “Because I’ve spent countless posts trying to paint a balanced picture”

                There is no “balanced picture” about a wrong suicidal “strategy”. None at all.

                * “Can you honestly say, I haven’t put in doubt? Can you honestly say Jay hasn’t put in doubt?”

                Let me remind you of what I wrote:

                quote: anyone else “in the WP camp”

                A few artiles ago you claimed that you weren’t in any camp. Now you claim that you are? Consistency, again consistency..

                As for Jay, no, he has not been balanced. I’ve said that before, and I say it again. He has his bias. I doubt he will try to deny that.

                You have your bias too, but you are trying hard to cover it up. Only you are quite markedly disputing things with the anti-WP camp, but leaving the pro-WP camp well alone. That shows you up as biased. Better luck at camouflage next time :)

                • Janne says:

                  I know what I wrote of the camps. And I did consider not reacting.

                  But don’t try intellectual dishonesty. You know people would read your “WP camp” to include people like me and Jay. In fact, you very likely thinks so yourself.

                  Hence I reacted.

                  “You have your bias too, but you are trying hard to cover it up. Only you are quite markedly disputing things with the anti-WP camp, but leaving the pro-WP camp well alone.”

                  This is probably true. See, it is not hard to admit it. I’m quite sure my senses are far more heightened on things to hit my nerves than on things that I more easily ignore – like overly positive rants. It is just that I’d like to enjoy this hobby. Foreign concept to you, I know.

                  Anyway, if you really look at many of the past threads from this week for example, I have corrected many inaccuracies when people have gone over the top. One of them was that I corrected a person who made a comment that Nokia was only getting into smartphone game and thus should be forgiven. We all know Nokia invented the smartphone. I didn’t let that be, even if it might have fit in the “positive thinking”.

                  • dr_zorg says:

                    “Anyway, if you really look at many of the past threads from this week for example, I have corrected many inaccuracies when people have gone over the top.”

                    That’s great if that is so. However I am not in the habit of following your every post (as you seem to follow mine), therefore it doesn’t mean one whit to me whether you have been “balanced” or haven’t been.

                    I can only draw on my experience from conversations where you replied directly do me, and there I detect a certain bias and a tendency to excuse every single of Elop’s actions (barring the “burning platforms memo”, but that you’d be ashamed to defend I’m sure).

                    That tells me certain things about what camp you are in. I’m not infallible, but over the years of dealing with people, I have learn to trust my own reason and experience rather than anything anyone might say about themselves.

                    “But don’t try intellectual dishonesty.”

                    Really? I would accuse you of the same. On multiple counts.

                    ” You know people would read your “WP camp” to include people like me and Jay. In fact, you very likely thinks so yourself.”

                    I do not “know”. I only suspect. First you tell me you’re not in any camp, and then you expect me to read between the lines? Interesting. You said it, not me.. Nice of you to admit the fact after such a long while.

                    ” It is just that I’d like to enjoy this hobby.”

                    Your evident hobby is to attach yourself to an anti-Elop/WP/Lumia comment and then go on a miles-long debate on whether the sky is blue or green :)

                    Enjoy, nobody is stopping you.

                    • Janne says:

                      “I can only draw on my experience from conversations where you replied directly do me, and there I detect a certain bias and a tendency to excuse every single of Elop’s actions (barring the “burning platforms memo”, but that you’d be ashamed to defend I’m sure).”

                      You know, I don’t think that is true. In the thread I linked to above, the one where this article was first posted BY ME and subsequently discussed, I have offered a lot of views on how I see Nokia. You see my trying to understand and explain Elop’s actions, as excusing them. But that just isn’t what I’m trying to do. Certainly the whole Symbian transition was mismanaged, it is evident. Yet, I find promise in his work as well in certain areas. I’m hopeful Nokia really is much less of a management nightmare now, and that Lumia gets somewhere. All might fail, of course.

                      “Really? I would accuse you of the same. On multiple counts.”

                      I’m sure you do, and probably would be warranted in many cases. Communication is hard, especially textual. I ain’t no saint.

                      “I do not “know”. I only suspect. First you tell me you’re not in any camp, and then you expect me to read between the lines? Interesting. You said it, not me.. Nice of you to admit the fact after such a long while.”

                      Oh, I see what you did there. ;)

                      But you see, there is the difference of my mental pattern and yours. You think camps, so when assessing your words, then we must think camps because that is how you view this.

                      I don’t think camps as much, or at least think camps are highly inaccurate way of assessing people because you might label then quite wrong, so when assessing my thoughts, camp should be put aside.

                      Well, a hard and silly thing to try and communicate, that, but if you have the goodwill you will understand my point.

                      I don’t, in reality, think I or Jay for example belong to any same camp – perhaps other than a very broad pro-Nokia camp. We certainly aren’t in any WP camp together, but many people DO see us in a “pro-WP camp”. Unfortunate, that. Apparently no matter of disclaimers help. If you even hint at liking WP or understanding the choice, you are in the pro-WP blind fandom camp. :)

                      “Your evident hobby is to attach yourself to an anti-Elop/WP/Lumia comment and then go on a miles-long debate on whether the sky is blue or green”

                      Yes, of course I am my own master and responsible for how I spend my time. But beyond that, I’m just trying to explain what and how I am thinking about all this behind it all. Things like the Sauli Niinistö thread of comments really feel stupid. From the first comment it started to become a trainwreck. Just because a president promoted a product sold by a company with HQ in his country. All that hate for that simple thing…

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      @Janne

                      Fair enough.

                      About Sauli, to be frank I d idn’t even check the thread.

                      He does have the right to do w/e he likes as long as he doesn’t disgrace our country.

                    • Janne says:

                      Maybe it is the late hour or something, but I think dr_zorg we have made some progress tonight. I have to thank you for that.

                      We don’t have to agree, likely never will on many things, but understanding each other is a big start.

                      I feel you deserve credit for taking the time and for the answers given. It is good.

                    • Saul says:

                      O.M.G… get a life you two… geezus.

                    • Janne says:

                      Saul: We’ll wind it down, I’m sure. :)

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      Thanks, it’s good that there is no more hostility. It’s unproductive to say the least. You have your points and I have mine, let’s keep it at that. I do respect your opinion, after all. Good night to you!

                    • Saul says:

                      @Janne/Dr_Zorg

                      For the love of God please do!
                      Thank-you.

                    • Janne says:

                      Sounds like a plan dr_zorg. :)

        • n8thegreat says:

          You’re the one spouting drivel.

          Let’s go back in time to end of 2008, 2009, and early 2010. According to your deluded thinking, Android back then was failing, it had failed and Google was doomed … oh wait, Android didn’t fail did it?

          So stop being so deluded with your posts. WP will NOT fail. Microsoft won’t allow it, and it won’t allow Nokia to go under either.

          Not it’s not a fact that WP has “failed”. Increasing marketshare is not failure, contrary to your deluded thinking. Increasing Lumia sales is not failure.

          Android sales were NOWHERE for almost 2 years! With WP8, sales will see a big increase and it will silence many of you naysayers.

      • migo says:

        No, he’s interested in a balanced discussion and even occasionally gets involved in it, but he has a heavy nationalistic bias going into every discussion that makes it difficult for that to be realised. So, you’re mostly right but he’s not like Deep Space Bar or GordonH who are totally not interested in a balanced discussion. I’d say dr_zorg and noki are both OK guys in the end even though I disagree with 95% of what they have to say.

    • migo says:

      It’s a Nokia fan site, supporting positive news is logical.

      That said, this guy is on crack, Nokia couldn’t keep up with HTC or Samsung in the spec race. A Nokia Android would get ridiculed (except maybe a 710 running GB).

  2. Phil K says:

    I love Nokia and think the Lumia 900 has a chance to be really great…

    BUT those claims you are going crazy about are not unrealistic.

    People go into stores looking for Android, they really are getting turned off when they hear Windows phone. Of course a lot of people change their mind when they actually use it and see it’s nice… but it’s not something people ask for.

    And yes, the carriers could market the hell out of WP and it would sell better, but they are in the market to make money. What good would it do for them to market WP at great cost, when they could just pick up a few more Android models and let people’s pre-existing awareness and familiarity of android sell itself?

    So no, selling an android phone when there are 150 other android phones around isn’t crazy.

    And if the same phone came with android, it would be a midrange android… considering how cheap it is on att in the us, it’s not a crazy idea.

    I don’t think Nokia should do this, but I’m saying this carrier rep isn’t crazy.

    • Kaizer Allen says:

      I’ve been trying to persuade some of my followers on Twitter to try Windows Phone and this ziiarch guy said, “@KaizerAllen blackberry..nope,I won’t change until I buy new series of iPhone..I’m bored with windows :||” (Source)

      I guess when people hear Windows Phone, they’re thinking about the old Windows Mobile and or the Aero interface found on desktop PCs. This is one of many things Microsoft should change about their phone OS: the name.

      • noki says:

        Its gona be worse when people are forced in to the metro UI into desktops, people don’t have a hole heart love for Aero interface, but it does it joob. the huge mesh up people are going to get on windows 8 is a disaster on the making, I see a new Windows ME in the making…

      • migo says:

        That’ll get fixed when Windows 8 launches. Of course, that’s another year of slow adoption. Still, WP does well when you get it in their hands. Which is why MS and Nokia should actually have people walking around the streets letting people try the phone.

        Sony did that with the Arc.

    • Just Visiting says:

      The carrier that said ‘no one comes in asking for Windows Phone’…well, Windows Phone is the OS. I’d bet that no one walks into that store asking for Symbian, or iOS, or any device by the operating system.

      Not sure what Nokia’s relationship was/is with the European carriers, but given Nokia’s symbiosis with AT&T (pricing, marketing, etc.,), it seems as though other carriers wanted a similar type of arrangement. Given these 4 unnamed carriers attitude, their attitude probably wouldn’t change much, if at all, if Nokia did arrange similar deals with them.

      With that said, Ali, you are right…Haters gon’ hate!

      • Beelzebozo says:

        “I’d bet that no one walks into that store asking for Symbian, or iOS, or any device by the operating system.”

        Android. You just lost your bet.

  3. Thomas F says:

    Nokia had a chance, with the launched of the N9, it could have taken of, but they only introduced it on small markets with limited marketing. I think that lumia with WP is ok, but nothing more than ok. And that is the problem.

    • migo says:

      The N9 had no chance. Lack of apps is a death sentence.

      • Thomas F says:

        You are right that lag of apps is a problem, and that i why Nokia should just open up for Android apps. Harmattan with android apps, would make the ultimate Phone. The ecosystems will melt together anyway…

        • migo says:

          No, wouldn’t work. It was good in theory, but the PlayBook is proof it doesn’t work in practice.

          • Thomas F says:

            But you forget that the Playbook did not have the wow factor that the N9. The N9 is excellent even without the large number of apps.

            • migo says:

              The N9 only had wow factor to the tech geeks. Average users were meh about it.

              • Beelzebozo says:

                Please show us a study that backs up your ludicrous claim. The fact that people love how Lumia 800 looks makes your claim plainly absurd as 800 is a direct copy of N9. And Lumia 900 continues the copying of N9. Without N9 the Lumias wouldn’t look as good as they do. They would be just as boring and uninteresting as all the other WP devices out there.

      • abcs says:

        In Asia, it would have done better than the Lumia due to less restrictive OS-bluetooth(which L800 didnt have), USB mass storage. Dont compare with Iphone, it’s much more popular and has loads of apps(now, not future)

      • Saul says:

        So is giving up and ensuring that is the case.
        No’s could’ve been very different by now…
        Ofc not as good as WP, but then it’s been around longer.
        But more than good enough to gain interest…
        Esp. w/multiple devices coming along & wide praise etc.

      • Beelzebozo says:

        You’re plainly wrong. Elop was N9′s only death sentence. And that’s a fact. Go read the HS article again if you have forgotten what Elop said.

        Your lack of apps claim is BS. Without tens of thousands of apps, proper marketing, availability and with the death sentence declared by the CEO of the very company that makes it, N9 still managed to sell more than Lumia.

    • noki says:

      with all honesty I think the N9 is only ok for many people aswell it was not a iphone kiler not for every one any way.
      I think think it would have sold way more than the current Lumia with way less promotion, just the deal it had with the Chinese carrier would have secure that..
      But I’m sure many feel the same about the Lumia, what I question is the absolute need to kill the N9 dosent nokia need the sales???
      It is plain obvius that windows phone is not well adjusted to all markets and all user spectrum, same as the N9, i think a possible N9 buyer hardly would be a WP consumer so it would targuet demographics, good for nokia..

      Unless some one was more interested in the marginal sales lost in the Lumia range because of the N9….

  4. Janne says:

    Full discussion of this article has been going all day here:

    http://mynokiablog.com/2012/04/16/nokia-comments-on-moodys-credit-rating-announcement/#comments

    I recommend we continue there so as to not repeat everything again.

    • dr_zorg says:

      Threads get too long as it is – often I find myself not replying to replies after a while, as there’s just too much to skim through.

      And valid points bear being repeated – that is, if they are valid :)

  5. zuus says:

    It was by reuters originally and it is due to confidentiality I believe. And I am not surprised. I believe Tomi Ahonen warned about this.

    Lumia’s are OK. There is nothing special about them from a UI point of view at all. The hardware is beautiful but the Nokia N9 was much nicer (& 800) with the curved glass.

    The fact that Nokia coped the iPhone sim tray in the 900 pissed me off a lot, since hardware supposed to be their strong suit. Then in Europe they battle over sim card design.

    I hate how Nokia is no longer unified, WP will never succeed in Asia for instance like India, China etc. Android will destroy it. Only way to succeed now is a dual strategy, one with WP for NA/Europe and Meego for everywhere else. One size, does not fit all.

    • Shayesta Miah says:

      Agree with having Windows and MeeGo OS. However Nokia should re-consider doing business with Google.

      • Thomas F says:

        I do not think that they should do business with Google, but they should take the only thing from google that they need, the apps. Harmattan with google apps! That combination will beet google, apple and WP. And they can deliver tomorow.

        • noki says:

          and it would be incredible easy to put the android apps in the n9… google would not mind they would still sell those adds..

          • Thomas F says:

            I do not know if Nokia would get access to Google Play that part is up to Google, but Nokia could import the apps to nokia market, ore make a deal with a 3th party app store like Amazon.

    • Reonhato says:

      Microsoft does not want them to do that. They were depending on Nokia to transition Symbian users to WP including Asia. Well we all know what happened.

      But what I wonder is, if it was part of the MS/Nokia deal that they can not have any other highend OS/phone that is not WP?

      Anyone know?

  6. Janne says:

    zuus: Tomi Ahonen also says they need to stop shipping Lumias NOW and go back to Symbian.

    Yes, he says otherwise Nokia is no more.

    Care to comment?

    • larryg968 says:

      He’s pretty good in general but i think that plan would be suicidal.

      Nokia’s best option is to release more meego devices alongside WP and try to get as much marketshare as possible. See which devices/ os sell more.

      As it relates to the ecosystem, they should partner with Amazon. Amazon has a vast ecosystem of content and products. Partner with amazon to put all these movies, songs and e-books on meego devices. That way the Meego ecosystem will only lack apps, just like WP.

      And before u say skydrive, XBOX and office, there are far more popular replacements for those services.

      Dropbox is more popular than skydrive
      Many apps replicate the function of office
      xbox- Not sure how this is an advantage. It not like u can play the game on your xbox and then play on your phone so its worthless. android as far better games so xbox is pointless on wp

      Then whichever platform succeed they have a future. Right now, Nokia i on the verge of failing

    • dr_zorg says:

      It wasn’t a question for me, but I’ll put in my two cents:

      Lumias are not being assembled by Nokia themselves, so there is no harm in continuing to ship them. It just costs extra money in paying Compal and logistics, but nothing that can’t be handled. HOWEVER, ALL of Nokia’s own factories should be piled with N9/N950/N8/808 etc orders, especially the N9 and N950.

      And MOST importantly, N9 and N950 market restrictions should be immediately removed and they should be sold everywhere as THE Nokia flagship phones, as they rightfully are.

      Symbian development must continue at forced pace and more engineers and designers must be hired instead of laying them off.

      The only way Nokia can avoid eventual bankruptcy is to spend money NOW in order to secure their future. Not to sell assets and agree to a slow death.

      • Janne says:

        Didn’t you read Tomi’s latest instructions. Shipping Compal-made Lumias must stop now or Nokia is no more!

        Yes… That is the guy you take cues from.

        • dr_zorg says:

          Firstly:

          I do not take “cues” from anyone. I have my own brain and I think with it, however right or wrong my opinions might prove. I recommend you do the same.

          Secondly:

          Tomi’s opinions happen to coincide with mine in many cases. This is why I support his opinions when I agree with them and do no support them when they don’t.

          Thirdly:

          You have a strange attitude toward your opponents. You seem to think that you are the only one capable of forming an intelligent and independent opinion. May I remind you that for the most part we are all adults here and each is capable of independent thought. You don’t need to think that everyone is just reading Tomi and copying his text here without giving it a second thought :)

          • Janne says:

            No, I was just surprised that you didn’t add any “doubt” into your references to Tomi…

            Look, seriously, can you listen to the guy after the latest suggestions? Honestly? Put the mission aside for a moment and admit he went too far.

            • dr_zorg says:

              Hmm, interesting. In one breath you blame me of being too black and white and then you go being black and white toward T.A.

              Guess what? He can be both wrong AND right in the SAME article! Unbelievable, I know.

              • Janne says:

                Yes, I get it. You have shades of grey when it suits you – and other times things are black and white and you know all the facts.

                No, in all seriousness, I don’t think Tomi is black and white. But I do wonder how many people can continue referencing him without disclaimers after the latest one.

                You got to admit, it was quite out there. No? Not in you to admit it?

                • dr_zorg says:

                  I admit that I disagree with his stance on discontinuing the Lumia immediately.

                  What else was “out there”? Care to elaborate? The I’ll tell you what I think of those ideas.

                  • Janne says:

                    To me, really, it was the total announcement Jorma Ollila was supposed to say (including apologies for Lumia) and the chosen emphasis on N9/N950 as the only clear hint of next step… all that, sounds very damaging and not quite of this world. I think he overstretched his ideas a lot.

                    I have nothing against resurrecting N950 or even Ollila as an interim CEO if it would be a must, as particulars, but to make those points the announcement would surely be suicidal. Nokia would have to have much more to say to reassure the markets in such a dramatic turn.

                  • Janne says:

                    I guess the big problem with Tomi is, he bases his analysis on the very publicly proclaimed notion that Nokia can be saved in one quarter after firing Elop. When he finally puts that quarter-plan to words it comes down to stop shipping current Lumias, apologise for them and start making the N950 and more Symbian.

                    It kind of puts all his other analysis in a weird light. Because the big question now is what should Nokia do. It seems to taking Tomi’s idea would be very unlikely to succeed for Nokia and yet all his writing is based on that very idea nowadays…

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      Yes, the “saved in one quarter” is certainly far-fetched, but I think he means something else:

                      When Elop is gone, Nokia can get on the true road to recovery. Certainly it doesn’t mean that the next quarter’s profits will be radically different. But that is one of the key changes that need to be made. Elop has to be kicked out and I agree with that.

                      Also I disagree with him about publicly apologizing for Lumias – that wouldn’t do any good for Nokia’s image. Private apologies to carriers, certainly are in order. And some quiet change of strategy and shifting focus.

                      Nokia has suffered too much from a certain loud-mouthed cretin (and criminal) already :)

  7. deep space bar says:

    HU HU….what’s next to AndroidOS in the market in terms of looks and functionality XD….i wonder ?

  8. Shayesta Miah says:

    To be honest Nokia Lumia’s are hyped up. Europe market people not going mad about it or asking about it. It’s just pure crap really. Look at the Sony Xepria Sola it’s miles better than Lumia 900 and the price tag of Sola will be around £230-£290 which is perfect. Where as the Nokia Lumia 900 nearly £500, what a rip off. Nokia need to lower prices dramatically because there’s far better devices cheaper which offer better features and performance.

  9. bwah1900 says:

    “512 Ram and 1.4 GHZ processor”
    Nexus S with 512 Ram and 1 GHZ CPU is just as speedy as the Lumia and it is WAY FASTER in apps and games.
    What is your point?(considering the NS CPU is also 30% slower).

  10. Bloob says:

    Can’t bother to read the comments today so I’ll just say that it’s not all about the specs, but Elop himself confirmed that the sales people in stores pushed for iPhones and Androids.

    • dr_zorg says:

      That kind of bears out on Tomi’s article where he said that Elop ruined the relationship with the carriers and salespeople – that there is a veritable “boycott” among salespeople due to very high return rate of Lumia phones.

      • Janne says:

        Yes, Tomi… Where have I heard that name before…

        Oh yeah, the guy who says stop shipping Lumias immediately, apologise for them being crap and go back to Symbian. He said it this week, worse than Elop at the worst possible interpretation of Feb11.

        And you take cues from that guy?

        You are delusional.

        • Svenkka says:

          As far as I have understood, both iOS and Android provide means to use VoIP and piss off the operators just the same way as what Mr Ahonen suggests MS and Nokia have done. Reading through Tomi’s rants make me feel more and more that he has lost his sense of reality. Too bad…

          • dr_zorg says:

            Well, you don’t have to agree with everything he writes, neither do I after all.

            Nevertheless, you have to agree that his prognoses about Nokia’s market share have all been correct almost to the number.

            That’s quite a feat from someone who lost his sense of reality :)

            For the most part I think he knows what he’s talking about. But certainly many things are open to interpretation and he can’t cover all bases. But that’s his blog. He’s not an oracle, he’s just an analyst.

            • Janne says:

              You pick and choose. Many people have pointed out how wrongly Tomi has analyzed many past trends, including RIM and several others. But I get it, he is the hero now for your point of view, so you excuse stuff. Perhaps he is your Elop, then. :)

              • dr_zorg says:

                My Elop is better than your Elop! :D

                On a serious note, I cannot understand how one can continue to defend that scumbag of a Flop after all he has done to destroy the company. I really can’t.

                • Janne says:

                  I don’t think I am defending him overall. I have found fault in him and his actions since Feb11. I’ve appreciated him where I think he deserves merit. And most importantly, I have not been able to conclude for a “fact” that he is incompetent, mole, or whatever people like to label him – so I won’t. I continue to asses the results and so far I’ve concluded the Symbian transition failed and the Lumia transition still shows promise.

                  As for “scumbag” and “Flop”, I just don’t see how that language is helpful. But my scumbag is better than yours. ;)

                  • GordonH says:

                    you seem to get behind every post that is not pro Elop.
                    That is weird in a stalking weird way.

                    An year ago, people suggested that putting everything in WP basket was a very stupid move. Today most commenters here have that same stance and it’s proving very true.

                    Many share my sentiments that Nokias’ technology and Nokia as a company is being unethically sacrified for MS mobile.

                    • Janne says:

                      I try to balance the discussion which gets very negative fast. Too negative to be the whole story. Too many I told you so’s to things that are still moving or where everybody already agreed on the risks. Even Nokia.

                      As for me, I have stated my own opinions now and a year ago too – I didn’t and don’t agree with the way Symbian transition was done. Now it has failed. But that doesn’t mean the fire Elop, bring back Symbian rhetoric is anywhere near a good idea.

        • dr_zorg says:

          Delusional, am I?

          Funny as I think the same about you!

          Either delusional, or then you are paid for pro-WP propaganda. That’s possible too, though not very likely. The majority of those I’ve met on here (Mark, jr, migo etc.) are quite easily distinguishable, while you actually seem like an intelligent person, even if misguided.

          • Janne says:

            You know, to steer a clear a bit.

            If you really want to know what I’d rather avoid, just look at the Sauli Niinistö and Lumia thread of comments. That is something I’d rather not see.

            So, if anything, my main concern here has been that we’ve lost that good feeling. It is not nice dwelling on things day in and day out. All that hate.

            Why is a bit of positive thinking so bad, that it needs to be attacked? We all know it is anecdotal and even silly at times, but this is a fansite for hobbyists.

            Why kill the fun here? What is the point? Every thread, fuck elop this and that, Tomi said this and that, N9 this and that… What is the point.

            Just really, really sad.

            • dr_zorg says:

              You know what’s sad? Your inability to see that people are genuinely concerned about Nokia and the future of their products.

              Why don’t you start your own blog, with all the fun and positivity you can muster?

              You’d set the rules to ban everyone who posts anything negative and you would have a community of totally happy Lumia users, concentrated on enjoying their devices.

              How’s that sound?

              I can see you do not like dissenting opinion. And that’s alright. Nobody really does. But we all have the right to present it unless the blog owner decides to the contrary. So please, have patience with your fellow human beings and give them the same freedom to express themselves as you yourself enjoy. Deal?

              • Janne says:

                “You know what’s sad? Your inability to see that people are genuinely concerned about Nokia and the future of their products.”

                I do see it. I see it in people like incognito and others whom I’ve had great talks and who most of the time stay civil (we all go overboard at times, myself included). Not only that, many of these people have taught me a great deal. I appreciate them.

                “Why don’t you start your own blog, with all the fun and positivity you can muster?”

                I have no agenda other than to enjoy my hobby. I’ve been asked to contribute to this blog too, but so far I have been reluctant because I don’t need a voicebox. I am happy in discussion, good discussion. I don’t need to stand above anyone. If I’m ever going to contribute more e.g. here, I must convince myself I can do it in a way the only mission is to serve the community news-wise. I have no desire to have a regular soap-box for my opinions.

                “You’d set the rules to ban everyone who posts anything negative and you would have a community of totally happy Lumia users, concentrated on enjoying their devices.”

                But them I’d never do that, because that is just not me. And that is why I like and have liked MNB. No comment gets deleted here. You list things that are more akin to your favorite analyst’s site, than MNB, or my thinking. You must confuse us. ;)

                “How’s that sound?”

                Like a certain analyst’s blog.

                “I can see you do not like dissenting opinion. And that’s alright. Nobody really does.”

                No, I love dissenting opinion. I hate yes-men. When there is an adult conversation that adds mutual understanding, dissent is the best. Because from dissent all can learn more than they know. For some reason I’m perfectly capable of having them with many others here, ending in agreement over certain things and disagreement over others. With you, it feels like you never give in an inch to find any common ground. I am finding common ground with people like incognito, I think, all the time – and then other times we disagree and that is helpful too.

                “But we all have the right to present it unless the blog owner decides to the contrary.”

                Certainly. I have never disputed that.

                “So please, have patience with your fellow human beings and give them the same freedom to express themselves as you yourself enjoy.”

                Of course. But look at that Sauli Niinistö thread. Really. Isn’t it sad? The state of the community? Are you really saying we as a community could not find it in ourselves to take things a bit more lightly? It has been over a year since Feb11.

                “Deal?”

                If you mean: deal to express one’s self. Yes, sure. That is always a good deal and one I can be party off. But if you think it is a good thing certain people flood every thread with one-lines about elop and sex, N9 and Tomi… well. Oh well. I just don’t see how that is polite.

                I guess it is just so raw a deal for you, the current Nokia, that you don’t want people enjoying it? It bugs you, doesn’t it? Because you feel we are helping in the destruction of Nokia or something.

                • dr_zorg says:

                  Who are all those people “enjoying” the new Nokia? Why don’t the put their money where their mouths are and buy themselves a Lumia?

                  For some odd reason, they prefer to post “positive” comments from their iPhones and Androids rather than boost the Lumia sales. Quite interesting, wouldn’t you say?

                  “It bugs you, doesn’t it?”

                  I’ll tell you what bugs me:

                  An American company bribing or coercing Nokia management to abandon the best mobile operating systems in the world (and the only European ones) that they have spent many years and many billions to develop and take up a half-baked American pile of crap and force it on me.

                  It bugs me that U.S. business is destroying European business and mindless globalist zombies like yourself are cheering it on.

                  It bugs me that the company I have always respected for integrity, customer service and excellent devices is being destroyed by a criminal and his cronies to the applause of nitwits and traitors.

                  That is what bugs me. It also bugs me when people like you attempt to tell me what to think or what to say.

                  • Janne says:

                    Well, I’m not the one deleting comments or advocating that, so clearly the only pressure I’m offering is that of my voice and opinion. There is no force behind it, other than the force of thought. You are free to think different and continue posting different if and when you disagree.

                    And I see these things bug you. And thus you see us as somewhat of traitors, a wrong word maybe, but I mean it in a good way – just trying to understand your point of view. Appeasers. My English fails me here, but I think I get how you see it.

                    Maybe I am an appeaser. Chamberlain to Hitler. It is certainly possible, although I have no position, so in that sense I’m just an average Joe keeping calm and carrying on. But then, I’d like to think I’m more than that. I too am a critical thinker, believe it or not, but on this particular thing I’ve seen certain merit to the new plan. I kind of like it, the Lumia part of it (not the botched Symbian transition or the finances).

                    “Who are all those people “enjoying” the new Nokia? Why don’t the put their money where their mouths are and buy themselves a Lumia?”

                    I think many people enjoying Lumias here have actually bought them, and indeed would like to root for success for their “investment”. It is pretty hard in the current atmosphere when the people who hate the new strategy come marching in.

                    “For some odd reason, they prefer to post “positive” comments from their iPhones and Androids rather than boost the Lumia sales. Quite interesting, wouldn’t you say?”

                    Yes, perhaps some do that, but I don’t think that is any kind of majority at MNB.

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      The Lumia has every right to exist and to be popular. I have not and do not argue with that.

                      I’m also not anti-WP as such, enjoy it if you like it, I don’t care.

                      But don’t you dare touch my Symbian – or else!

                      Unfortunately I’m powerless to defend what I love in this respect, hence my Elop-hate and criticism.

                      But you’ll not that I almost never criticise the OS or devices. My beef is with Elop, Nokia BoD and MSFT. (And a few paid posters around here, but that’s another story). That’s it.

                  • JGsmartypants says:

                    So you’re a whiny Euro-nationalist (or simple anti-American) who thinks Symbian qualifies as “the best mobile operating systems” in spite of a mountain of evidence and customer dissatisfaction proving otherwise. Cool, thanks.

                    I think Janne is right. Nokia’s decisions seem to be an emotional crucible on which you lay your many grievances. And Nokia must fail to prove your dislike of American corporations correct.

                    I’ve never seen anyone make a coherent case that as of Feb 2011 that Nokia could have made its own platforms work.

                    The only rational topic of debate should be whether Nokia should have gone all-android (possibly with a fork a la Amazon) or tried doing both WP and Android at the same time.

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      “I’ve never seen anyone make a coherent case that as of Feb 2011 that Nokia could have made its own platforms work.”

                      And I’ve never seen anyone make a coherent case that Nokia could NOT have made its own platforms work.

                      The Qt strategy was and is viable and is BETTER than WP, as it MULTIPLIES and UNIFIES all Nokia OS assets into a single comprehensive system.

                      WP is something totally different and goes against Nokia standards and history.

                      It is something that should have been given a chance (diversification isn’t a bad thing), but not have been the ONLY way to go.

                  • n8thegreat says:

                    I have a very mature question to ask:

                    If Nokia had never gone with WP, and had continued with Symbian and Meego, and Nokia ended up close to death as a company, what then?

                    Would you rather have seen Nokia die as a company, or would you rather see Nokia survive and continue as a company, even thought not in a way you like?

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      Why would Nokia die as a company if it had gone with Maemo/MeeGo instead of WP?

                      I have yet to see any proofs of that view. Want to be the first to actually tell me HOW WP is BETTER than Maemo/MeeGo as a future operating system?

                      “Developers developers developers” is a cliche that isn’t relevant. Maemo/MeeGo is a free platform that allows any and all developers to utilize it and the Ovi/Nokia Store is the perfect medium for that.

                      I want to hear some technical justifications, not “nobody develops for it”, because that’s false.

                    • dr_zorg says:

                      In addition, Qt allows porting of any and all applications in the Ovi/Nokia Store to Maemo – and this means that Maemo potentially has already 2x the number of apps compared to MS Marketplace.

                      Porting an app in Qt is easy and fast, there is no reason developers would not do it.

                    • n8thegreat says:

                      I’m not saying it would, I’m saying imagine if *it did*.

                      Once again, the question is a hypothetical one; would you rather have seen Nokia die in the future, or survive, just not in way you want?

  11. Lax says:

    All i can say is nokia should be consistent and concentrate on their lumia brand
    Lumia 910- flagship, 4.5′ scrn, best hardware, pureveiw cam
    lumia 850- 4.1′ scrn, landscape qwerty keypad, second best hardware. For all their crazy experiments ( morph, aurgumentet reality glass and pure veiw pro)
    lumia 730- 3.9′ scrn for the ladys, good hardware p.veiw cam
    lumia 620- 3.7′ scrn for the teens, colorful, and good hardware, cheap.
    Nokia 550- 3.7′-3.5′ scrn, meego os, for low end china and africa, cheap
    Asha 350- 3.5′-3′ scrn s40 or meltemi, cheapest touch screen for in china and africa. Consistency is the key to success

  12. Yemi says:

    Some comments on here are making my blood boil.
    1. Nokia didn’t go Android route because it was too late to keep up with differebtiation from other android OEM. Samsung and HTC got that covered.
    2. Going with android would mean Nokia giving up on their 2nd prime jewel which is maps and location services. Googke wont allow Nokia to swap googke maps with nokia maps.
    3. Windows phone was essentially the lesser of two evils with the choice Nokia had.
    4. Symbian fans need to let go cos Nokia is not going back to it MOVE ON.
    5. It is easy to bash Nokia while it is down. Watch every analyst turn around when Nokia does better in 3Q and 4Q which will be tough since Apple had its eyes set for the ‘new’ iphone release in 3Q.
    Finally, Im just a Nokia fan and observer, what do I know?

    • deep space bar says:

      if Nokia is getting good word and notice for Symbian belle why not push it regardless…..alot of people have been saying it’s as smooth at current or last gen android devices?

      they just need
      bigger screen
      better hardware
      and more apps and everything will come together

      no point in forcing the 3rd ecosystem and telling people it was and has been establish with no proof?

      • n8thegreat says:

        Symbian’s reputation is finished. The N97 and S60v5 killed it. Get THAT through your head troll!

        There is NO WAY to save Symbian’s reputation. Not Belle, not Donna, not anything will save Symbian any longer. Even though Nokia renamed it to “Nokia Belle” sales are still dropping.

        • GordonH says:

          10 million sales per quarter and it’s called “finished”.
          I know it’s on the downside but still it’s 10 million with all that negative PR. Give Symbian some competitive hardware, some positive PR and Nokia’s back to good sentiments with developers and investors.

          My point is and I am not saying it’s the best way out… Symbian OS with 10 million units sales per quarter does logically offer a nice launching pad for making some extra dough.

          The best way out would be is give consumers choices of Meego, QT, Symbian and WP.

          • n8thegreat says:

            Nokia messed up the Feb 11 announcement, we can all agree on that and that much is clear. Moving on, we can’t change the past. The damage done is done by that announcement. The damage done to Symbian by the N97, S60v5, OPK and his team’s incompetence … all of those now cannot be reversed.

            The truth is we still have Meltemi, and QT is supposed to be a big part of it. Many of us believe Meltemi will share many features and benefits of Maemo. So in that sense Elop was wrong to call for the end of the N9′s software, as in a way it will exist in Meltemi, even if only spiritually.

            The problem is, this 10 million sales per quarter will only continue to drop, just as Symbian sales have been dropping for years.

            There is no “launching pad” here for Symbian, not with the horrible reputation Symbian has achieved among average consumers over the last few years. Not us techies or Nokia fans, but regular consumers.

            • Beelzebozo says:

              The regular consumers didn’t buy the expensive N97, don’t know what S60v5 means or who OPK is and most likely don’t know that their Nokia phones had something called Symbian in them.

              The Symbian’s reputation is not so much lost in the mind of consumers but in the minds of retailers and carriers. That’s where the harm was done by Elop and his stupid memo and announcement. Most regular consumers knew jack shit about anything that happened. They rely on retailers and carriers. And Symbian lost most of those retailers&carriers, who do listen and follow things, when Elop did his idiotic things.

          • migo says:

            Symbian will never end up in the good books with developers. They scorched the earth with Symbian Signed. They’re never getting that back.

            • Beelzebozo says:

              Never is such a looooong time…

              Besides given enough incentive (usually financial), pretty much anyone will come back.

        • Reonhato says:

          And what about “windows on a phone” ‘s reputation?

    • JGsmartypants says:

      Yemi is correct. Some people pay attention to point 1 but almost nobody pays attention to point 2.

      Also, Symbian was terrible. Maybe it’s because I used to work at Apple and place a higher premium on UX but Symbian is ghastly. Belle was an admirable effort to put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

    • Beelzebozo says:

      “Finally, Im just a Nokia fan and observer, what do I know?”

      Well since you asked…not much. Based on your post, close to nothing.

      Now your blood is probably boiling a little more, but you asked.

  13. JH says:

    I was with a friend looking for a smartphone in my local electronics store (part of one of Sweden’s biggest store chains) recently. To my positive surprise, the salesman pushed the Nokia N9 even though they had both Lumias, droids and iProducts there. Very nice actually! :)

    • noki says:

      nice +++1, rare event but nice

      • sunny boy says:

        its because, n9 is not selling well in that shop and so he want to sell the remaining stock, so he might have pushed it…

        • Saul says:

          A good salesman will always try to sell what he feels is easy to sell or is selling well.
          Trying to push something that’s not easy to sell is a dumb approach for any ambitious salesman.

  14. Rajiv says:

    Now this blog will go to any level possible to defend Nokia, earlier when on 11th Feb the partnership was announced, the news here was that european carriers are happy with the decision because this will prevent the monopoly of iphone and android and will make their products available at worthy prices, seems like things are opposite now

    • Janne says:

      This messages shows to me you have not been reading this site. Jay was horrified on Feb11, and his posts sure showed it.

      But of course, today this is a pro-Nokia blog and pro-Nokia includes pro-Lumia these days.

      • Diibadaaba says:

        It really depends. I like to think I am a nokia supporter. I would like to support them more maybe even buy their new device.

        Unfortunalely, I am also a minor stockholder. I made my investments before Elop came to power and I have been observing the stock in horror. I should have sold my position when the feb 11 strategy was announced.

        The problem is that Nokia and MS signed a contract yet it is very difficult to estimate what is written in the agreement. I have not been reasoning out/seen any benefits for nokia from this deal yet (excluding minor amount of cash).

        I strongly believe that choosing Elop as CEO was not driven by the board it was dictated by the major shareholders (hedge funds) mainly based in the US. It would not be a problem to push these kind of things through because nokia’s market cap was already very low during this time especially compared to the competition and market size.

        That is why it can be that the MS has made a deal with itself to take the nokia assets and sacrifice nokia for purposes of MS and American businesses (Apple and Google) only without thinking the interest of rest of the shareholders or even customers.

        You can see how Apple is behaving in nano SIM case. They are signing up fake companies to ETSI and transfer enough money to their balance sheet so they have the majority of votes. This I would call cheating but maybe if this kind of behavior is acceptable in the industry. So if the means are so cruel I can see why companies can be destroyed just sake of it.

        To me MS is not nokia and I could not care less about MS. I do not see the partnership is balanced, I cannot buy Lumia device no matter what and I care about nokia.

        • GordonH says:

          +1 to you.
          -1 to nokia investors.

          I bought NoK shares when the n900 or first Meego device was released. Sold it out at .50 cents loss when Nokia announced the Intel partnership.
          Also bought Nok again when Elop came in. Then Feb 11 happened and I never thought of buying NOK again.
          I do want to challenge these pro Elop people to buy NoK shares. “Put your money where your mouth is” that’s the famous saying.
          Hint: Investors choosing MS stock over NoK stock.

        • JGsmartypants says:

          If you cannot buy a Lumia device no matter what, then you clearly do not care about Nokia enough for it to actually matter.

          • Ebon & Unicorn N9s says:

            Nokia makes more than just Lumias.. So supporting Nokia doesn’t mean you have to buy Lumias. You can buy tge Asha phones or other devices…

          • Diibadaaba says:

            I saw your later reply for dr-zorg and I guess you are one of those that are MS fans rather than interested in nokia.

            My point of view is that nokia would have been in much better position now if they have kept the earlier strategy. This is of course only my opinion but this is why I made my investments.

            Last year has only been political BS and compared to Meego MS could not offer anything that was especially good. From nokia’s point of view what was the point of porting N9 to WP7 where is the benefit? What was the benefit of cancelling N950 when it was ready? Only thing Elop has put effort into is to try to convince public that the MS strategy is excellent.

            The Nokia MS strategy could have been balanced if the nokia would have the access to WP8 and then they would have make remarkable devices together while nokia is still making money with other platforms.

            Last year nokia has been just porting existing devices to WP7 without any innovation. So Nokia basically wasted one year for nothing. Announcing the existing platforms dead in advance led to liquidity problems (surprise, surprise). In the mean time losing scale is causing problems to supply chain.

            So if MS would have had confidence to WP8 they would not play these political games but work hard to make it success without holding gun to some other company’s head.

            So if I cannot see real benefits for nokia coming out from this deal I won’t buy Lumia. It could be only MS that I am actually supporting if I buy Lumia.

            BTW: Why Samsung is doing very good profit with Android but not with WP7 with similar HW?

            • Janne says:

              We have very solid discussions on what Nokia should do last year. We agreed, disagreed, pulled our hair out and made our conclusions.

              How much longer do we need to dwell on Feb11? Heck, I still wish Nokia had gone Maemo full-blast in 2005 or around those years, but it is no use dwelling on it now.

              Yes, Nokia’s situation sucks. We agree.

              • dr_zorg says:

                Nokia STILL CAN go Maemo full-blast today, in 2012. And it can still succeed. But that will require a new CEO and a new BoD with some wits to decide on the RIGHT changes and some guts to execute them.

                • Janne says:

                  I actually agree, it might be able to somehow (I feel MeeGo might have worked in Feb11 too, although I can see why they felt it would not) – but it would be better only if the Lumia strategy is failing.

                  Because any such drastic move now would danger the entire Lumia plan and cause likely a new wait of 6-18 months for the transition. That would be really costly to Nokia.

                • migo says:

                  No, they can’t that ship sailed.

          • Janne says:

            JGsmartypants: That sounds over the top to me. Nokia has other products aside Lumia and there are many ways to support Nokia.

            I do agree Lumia is important, though.

      • Rajiv says:

        Janne *whoever you are* get a life and stop trolling on every post. I have doubt that you are one of the mods of this site who has come up with a different name to save their reputation.

        • Janne says:

          I am not a moderator, but I will try to tone it down. :)

          But really, Jay did not like Feb11 at all. Just go back and read his posts.

  15. Oleg Derevenetz says:

    Do not care of all these rumors. Care of all these cold hard numbers at the beginning of every quarter… you know. Rumors can be challenged, but numbers are not.

    • dr_zorg says:

      Don’t be so sure. We have “professionals” here that challenge the numbers and demand you prove them wrong. Again and again ad nauseam. :)

      • Oleg Derevenetz says:

        Well, so much the worse for them.

      • noki says:

        hheheh ok that was funny, good one :)

      • Janne says:

        Actually, mostly I see people challenging the interpretation of numbers. After all, even analysts make mistakes…

        Very few numbers are widely questioned. N9 sales seem to be one such number though where thinking ranges from 600K to probably 3M for Q4.

        • Doffen says:

          The number of N9 sold is probably held back to cover Elops ass. It would be quite embarrassing if it sold better than any of the Lumia models in the same quarter.

          • keizka says:

            Or they’re just staying in line with company policy. Or how many times thus far has Nokia released *any kind of* sales numbers, when it comes to smartphones? I can only think of a one clear instance, and even in that case it was more about how many devices were sold in a specific time…

  16. Lax says:

    You alway talk negetive about nokia and microsoft patnership because they gave up on your precious symbian os. Pleas i argue u to go cheak other site and see the negative comments symbian gets, u migth change ur mind about symbian. I have use sym all my smartphone life and i just used win phone, its good and can help nokia rise to its former glory. I am a nokia fan and what work good for nokia makes me happy.

    • dr_zorg says:

      WP gets even more negative comments than Symbian does, what’s your point? Even iOS gets many negative comments. There are always people that are not used to one operating system or another, and that’s fine.

      We talk negatively about MS and Nokia partnership because it is literally destroying Nokia, financially and physically. That’s not up for debate, we see proof in laying off workers, closing of factories and abysmal quarterly financial reports.

      Everything else is just surmise and conjecture and can’t be taken seriously.

      • n8thegreat says:

        More delusional thinking. Yes it is up for debate. Do you think that magically Nokia’s European factories would be safe if they continued Symbian and Meego? Would Nokia as a company be safe if they had continued on with Symbian? Of course not, don’t be silly.

        Nokia made layoffs because it was forced to compete in the market against Chinese factories paying super low wages. The market is like nature, either you adapt or die. Nokia had to make drastic moves to adapt to surive. Otherwise Nokia would be as good as dead.

        Speaking of debates, did you know that Nokia since last year has been hiring in North America? But that’s not up for debate, is it, according to you?

        • noki says:

          you must be champion of the parallel reality dogma.

          “More delusional thinking” he is just stating facts there is nothing delusional about facts.

          And yes we know that Nokia as been hiring former Microsoft people to replace the people in Finland.

          • n8thegreat says:

            Nope, no facts here, just deluded opinions.

            The great thing about facts is they don’t change no matter what you argue. Facts show increasing Lumia sales and marketshare. End of story.

            Also please go on Nokia’s Canada and US sites and see they are hiring new people, not just Microsoft people. Go ahead, take a look.

            • GordonH says:

              So when do these facts become real to you? Give us some of your “non-delusional” views.

              • n8thegreat says:

                Here is what’s “real”. The Lumia 800 and 710, which are still very expensive in some countries, started off with decent sales in Q4 2011, even though they were not available for a full quarter. In Q1 2012, sales increased for the Lumia phones with availability in more countries. Now with the 900, the 610, and some price cuts for the 710 and 800 as well as continued increased worldwide availability, Q2 should see even more increased Lumia sales.

                What’s real to me is that Lumia sales are going up. They are not going down. Same with marketshare, it’s going up. Currently both are at a tiny level, yes. WP 7.5 still has flaws and drawbacks, yes. So does iOS and Android. Improvement and change takes time. It will take time for Lumias to be big sellers. It will take some time for us to wait for WP8 to come out and to see what improvements it offers. It will also take time for the Lumia range to expand to lower end and higher end models.

            • Doffen says:

              Difficult to sell less than zero…

      • Janne says:

        dr_zorg: Nokia’s state isn’t really up for debate, but reasons for that – and the future possibilities of it certainly are up for debate.

      • JGsmartypants says:

        This statement:

        “We talk negatively about MS and Nokia partnership because it is literally destroying Nokia, financially and physically. That’s not up for debate, we see proof in laying off workers, closing of factories and abysmal quarterly financial reports.”

        is problematic because it is essentially an unverifiable hypothesis. We cannot go back in time and see what happened if Nokia stuck with its own OSes, or if it went with Android. History.exe only runs once.

        Ultimately, it all boils down to my assertion vs your assertion.

        My assertion is that if Nokia stuck with Symbian, the rate of decline would be only marginally less severe than it is now, based on proliferation of Android and amply present customer dissatisfaction with Symbian. In short, Nokia would be RIM.

        If Nokia went with Android, I think they would be selling more phones in the short run but in the long run would follow in the path of HTC and Motorola–players in a commodity game that couldn’t compete with Samsung (which owns most of its components) at the cutting-edge top or Chinese companies at the bottom. And the same layoffs in software and manufacturing would have happened anyway as the Symbian devs would still be redundant, and the manufacturing operations would still be moving to Asia due to cost pressures.

        If Nokia went with Microsoft (which it did) it has a chance to carve out a unique role with what may be a major platform (given that Samsung et al are publicly gearing up to support the next gen Windows Phones, it seems they have reason to think it’s worth doing). Nokia will have the ability to mod Windows Phone in a way Samsung and Chinese companies can’t. It is a competitive advantage that they can actually sustain, unlike trying to battle Chinese manufacturers on price.

        Will it work? Maybe. Maybe not. But it was the best (or least bad) option Nokia could have done.

        • n8thegreat says:

          Very well said, and a nice, logically thought out response. I agree with you, and I think Nokia’s own decision making process on going with WP was likely similar to what you mentioned.

        • dr_zorg says:

          “is problematic because it is essentially an unverifiable hypothesis. We cannot go back in time and see what happened if Nokia stuck with its own OSes, or if it went with Android. History.exe only runs once.”

          We do know several things.

          1. Elop’s Feb 11 announcement and “memo” destroyed carrier and consumer confidence in Nokia.
          2. Elop has mismanaged the company so much that it has lost two thirds of its market and is constantly losing more.
          3. The Lumia line is not selling well and the “transition” of Symbian users to it is virtually non-existent.
          4. Elop has caused Nokia to go into the red TWICE within a YEAR – and to lose many billions in profits, revenue and assets.

          Those are all facts. It’s not “my view vs your view”. They are facts. They have all really happened – AND THEY PROVE THAT THE PATH NOKIA HAS TAKEN IS WRONG.

          This means that Nokia should have taken a DIFFERENT path in October 2010.

          What that different path should have been is certainly debatable, but one thing is NOT debatable – the WP path has led it to DESTRUCTION.

          What other paths were there?

          The only viable one was building on the ALREADY EXISTING ecosystem of Symbian/Maemo with Qt, developing Meltemi and concentrating on developing more and better services.

          Why? Because it allows Nokia to DIFFERENTIATE as opposed to becoming a simple mindles OEM – as has happened with WP and would happen with Android as well.

          Do you know which companies win the market? Those that can offer something of their OWN. The only exception to that is Samsung – but they win because they can cut overheads by a lot, being the global producer of phone hardware for all the other companies (even Nokia). The rest are just getting by (HTC, LG, etc). RIM became the giant it was only through DIFFERENTIATION – and they are now in trouble because they STOPPED differentiating and building on what they had.

          Apple.. there’s a classic example of how DIFFERENTIATION makes one big. HUGE.

          MSFT was in a good position at a point in history a few years ago too, when Windows Mobile offered a full mobile computing experience. They should have built on that in order to remain relevant in the mobile market. Sadly, they decided to offer LESS for the same money, and that never works. Currently there is nothing MS can offer as a service that would differentiate them and appeal to a vast majority of customers (note I said vast majority!).

          • Reonhato says:

            I think they should have just kill . . well not kill but unite all the names symbian,meego,maemo,S40/meltemi and make the Qt ecosystem and name it QT or SwipeOS that is all without the negativity of Symbian name and the assumption that most have of dead meego.

            on another note, I also think MS should rename WP to something else with out the Windows name. ;)

          • migo says:

            1. Wrong, it had no effect on consumer confidence, because consumers didn’t know it happened. It boosted carrier confidence. When was the last time you saw a Nokia as AT&T’s flagship phone?
            2. Nokia had already been steadily losing marketshare under OPK, partially due to mismanagement by Olilla.
            3. The Lumia is selling very well, they can barely keep up with demand for the Lumia 900 in factories. If they could make more to sell them faster they would. When was the last time a Symbian phone was selling so well that the factories couldn’t keep up? On one carrier no less?
            4. Anyone who didn’t expect this to happen with a change in strategies is a moron. Anyone who thinks a change in strategies wasn’t necessary is also a moron.

            • dr_zorg says:

              1. U.S. is not the world. The sales of Lumia devices in Europe and Asia speak volumes about how undesirable WP is for the consumers – the ones you say didn’t know it happened. They didn’t have to know, they simply compared WP to Symbian and went Android or iOS.

              2. Steadily, slowly, and with high prospects of a rise. Now we have a tremendous downfall and slim prospects of recovery – and no prospects while Windows Phone remains the only “strategy”. Diversification is what can yet save Nokia, but there are no signs of that.

              3. We heard the same, IDENTICAL stories about the Lumia 800 and 710 – yet the quarterly report proved all that to be a lie or at best a gross exaggeration.

              “can barely keep up with demand” – how high is demand?

              ” if they could make more” – how many are they making?

              “When was the last time a Symbian phone was selling so well that the factories couldn’t keep up?”

              The N8 for 1-2 months after launch.
              The N9 for a similar time (the 64gb version and certain colours were out of stock at least here in Finland in many places – and it took a while before they got restocked) – that could be because N9 production was reduced, of course.

              4. A change in what strategy? Here’s the main question.

              If by “change in strategy” you mean “stop sitting on your ass like OPK and do something”, then yes.

              If you mean moving away from Symbian/Maemo/Qt environment and unification, then you are wrong there.

              Regardless, we now know that the strategy they did choose eventually is destroying Nokia as a name and as a company.

        • dr_zorg says:

          “If Nokia went with Microsoft (which it did) it has a chance to carve out a unique role with what may be a major platform (given that Samsung et al are publicly gearing up to support the next gen Windows Phones, it seems they have reason to think it’s worth doing). Nokia will have the ability to mod Windows Phone in a way Samsung and Chinese companies can’t. It is a competitive advantage that they can actually sustain, unlike trying to battle Chinese manufacturers on price.”

          I’m sorry, what kind of bullcrap is this?

          Unique role? Hows is Nokia unique with WP? Their phones are EXACTLY the same as the others. Identical in specifications and experience. (don’t give me the “slightly faster” and “slightly smoother” crap, that’s not what counts overall).

          Ability to mod WP? WHERE IS IT? HAVE WE SEEN ANY NOKIA MODS? No. We have heard Elop state clearly that Nokia DOES NOT INTEND TO MOD WINDOWS PHONE.

          That’s Nokia CEO talking, not me. So all your arguments go out the window there.

          Nokia is just another WP OEM, period.

          • Janne says:

            Really a simplified statement beyond truth:

            - Nokia is not just another WP OEM. The are a special partner, whose input will be used in the future of Windows Phone – not just requirements (lower-end stuff etc.) but their actual input into making location-based stuff and camera stuff. Nokia’s stamp and code will be in Windows Phone. That is one major difference.

            - Any modifications for Nokia, and those will come – the only place where they’ve said they’d choose against it – are the central use paradigms and APIs. They don’t want to fragment those. As for other customizations, give it time. The first batch is just out the door. For example, already year ago Nokia discussed a Nokia Store for Windows Phone. Things like this (or something else) are still just in the pipeline.

            Of course, if still by next year Windows Phone has not been affected by Nokia, nor is there any differentiation for Nokia, then it failed to materialize and they were full of it. But so far, I see no reason to believe that. Things like the 610 and Tango, and Nokia logo in Bing Maps, the 610 NFC, already give glimpses into Nokia affecting the Windows Phone roadmap.

            • dr_zorg says:

              “The are a special partner, whose input will be used in the future of Windows Phone – not just requirements (lower-end stuff etc.) but their actual input into making location-based stuff and camera stuff. ”

              Translation: MS will suck Nokia dry of their technological achievements and “share” them with all and sundry (Samsung, HTC, LG etc.)

              “Nokia’s stamp and code will be in Windows Phone.”

              There is no differentiation for Nokia here.

              Let me repeat that.

              THERE IS NO DIFFERENTIATIN FOR NOKIA HERE.

              All WP code is open for use by all other manufacturers – therefore Nokia is working to make others rich – but not itself.

              “already year ago Nokia discussed a Nokia Store for Windows Phone”

              It’s been a YEAR. There is still nothing and it doesn’t look like there will be anything.

              Talk is cheap. I think you believe Elop too much, the man has lost his credibility a long time ago.

              Besides, assuming there will be a Nokia Store, what then? What will Nokia offer in that store that will not be available to other OEMs?

              “Really a simplified statement beyond truth”

              Based on the above, it’s just a simple truth.

  17. Harangue says:

    Already posted something similar elsewhere, but here goes again;

    Carriers just want easy selling devices, devices they don’t have to invest in to shift. After all the devices are enablers for them, they just enable them to sell a subscription and that is where they get their income from.

    If a carrier comes across a device that isn’t really flying off the shelves (comapred to Android, the Lumia’s aren’t) they need to invest in it to do fly off the shelf. So yeah, logically a carrier will say that they would like to see the Nokia’s running Android. That would be an easy sell. What does a carrier care if the experience is unsatisfactory for a customer, they already have the signed contract which is all they care for.

  18. viperkid says:

    i agree with dr_zorg. only deluded people will think otherwise regarding the current state of windows phone’s market share. the operators absolutely have more credibility than Janne. who is “Janne” anyway? is he/she a carrier executive?! excuse me? Janne is the one clearly not open in a balanced discussion. Janne only cares for what he/she has to say. everyone opposes against windows phone will surely get a dose Janne’s reality distortion about the current wp performance bcoz he/she is a hardcore windows phone fanatic. reuters is reuters. Janne, well is only Janne and clearly not reuters. of course, i will believe reuters more.

    • Janne says:

      I am just a hobbyist here. I do think I have some things to offer, but clearly not all agree. That is okay. No opinion gets censored here. There is truth in the totality of diverse comments as should be.

      As for WP fanatic, no I don’t think so. But I do follow a lot of stuff, both business and techincal, and of course I am a Nokia fan.

      I loved Maemo btw and I’m going to get the Spark/Vivaldi open source tablet next. There is a lot of merit to Linux.

    • keizka says:

      Who are you? Who is dr_zorg? Who am I even for that matter? Who is Jay? Who is dsmobile who has been every now and then throwing a bone here for us, ardent readers of MNB? What kind of *credibility* do any of us have here?

      Don’t be daft. People are discussing the situation, without really having a *way* to change/divert the course in any possible way. We see what we are seeing, and some try to, y’know, discuss about these things.

      Also, insinuating stuff is bad.

      Ps. It’s ok to question media. It’s called media critique. Very much needed every now and then.

      • viperkid says:

        who, who? ur over reacting. credibility is earned not by talking on thin air. now if u dont like my comment, its fine. bcoz i respect other opinions. im not being daft. im just stating facts and reacting to facts brought by a more trustworthy entity. nobody is saying we are going to change d course nokia is taking. im not insinuating things. the news is about how lumia phones r performing in a certain area. its backed by a carrier’s exec who talked to d reporter. perhaps its u that is being daft. please use webster’s, it will help u find d meaning of insinuating. only mad people will be happy with how nokia is performing lately.

  19. viperkid says:

    i dont listen to hobbyists .) who’s sources are:

    what IFs
    maybes
    wait for apollo

    i listen to true journalists with hard and proven facts like sales and links. everyone here knows your a windows phone fanatic. is that a bad thing? i dont think so. as long as u know what “reality” is

    • Janne says:

      No need. Of course I am a bit more than a hobbyist in real-life, so I think I have some grasp of the topics here. But obviously use your source critique and build your view of the world accordingly. That goes without saying. Mine is just one voice.

  20. Linukia says:

    You should start mylumiablog.

    Well, the fact : at MNB, lots of complaints to Nokia about WP policy. This indicates that not every Nokia fans agree with the policy. The comparison of “the agree” vs “the disagree”, I don’t know.

    Nokia is so stubborn, it should listen to “the disagree”, they are smartphone buyer too, otherwise, their money will go to Nokia’s competitor.

    Most of them aren’t hardliner, they don’t ask to abandon WP, just want more option (in SMARTPHONE, not in dumbphone).

    I respect your preference with WP, just remember, not everyone has the same preference with you. I also want to be in peace with WP fans, unfortunately, they support “WP only” policy.

    • Linukia says:

      this is @janne

        • lordstar says:

          Ahahaha! I agree though. I appreciate the fact that Nokia has introduced the Lumia line with passion in select markets. Just don’t give us the windows only policy.

          Nokia fans want options for their OS of choice. Nokia should hurry up with Meltemi just to give us a glimpse of what things will be in the future. That’s if Nokia decides to bring meltemi to the midrange.

    • dr_zorg says:

      That our position in a nutshell, well put. Most WP fans and supporters just don’t get this simple truth.

      • keizka says:

        Now now, while I like my WP device, I’d love more N950 if I were to get my hands on one ;) But then again, I’d want to have a plethora of devices. Only one caveat though, they do have to bear that Nokia logo on them. This LG is a silly, silly sidestep though :/

    • Janne says:

      Linukia: It would be easier for me to respect your position, if you started by articulating mine truthfully. WP is not my preference in the sense that I prefer a WP-only Nokia. I try to understand and explain Nokia’s reasons for being so for those that seem to have not followed all the output from Nokia, but that is not something I always agree with. Just yesterday, I posted long about how I feel about the situation, and included welcoming a Maemo hobby device – which I have always welcomed – from Nokia. I’m not sure it will ever happen, but it would be something I might consider as Nokia. Perhaps releasing N950 too. As a goodwill gesture, a small side-project for the fans perhaps.

      Here is what I wrote yesterday, in one message:

      http://mynokiablog.com/2012/04/16/nokia-comments-on-moodys-credit-rating-announcement/comment-page-2/#comment-554589

      “Well, the fact : at MNB, lots of complaints to Nokia about WP policy. This indicates that not every Nokia fans agree with the policy. The comparison of “the agree” vs “the disagree”, I don’t know.”

      Sure, I can clearly see that. But what can we do about it? Bitch and moan, year on, year out? The Feb11 discussion is long gone, we had it here, for months. Nokia has a new course and still people keep repeating the same grievances that then need to countered for balance and so on, because in that grievance there is often misinformation as well – and so the circle goes. Every thread, even a thread where the president of Finland gave some Lumias on a state visit turns into a moan-fest, instead of a few light-hearted comments. I’m just not sure we as a community are doing any favors to us by keeping it up. What is the point? I guess the point is to share the misery and gain some delight in seeing Nokia falter. I told you so’s galore in every possible thread, no matter how off-topic it is. What fun is that.

      “Nokia is so stubborn, it should listen to “the disagree”, they are smartphone buyer too, otherwise, their money will go to Nokia’s competitor.”

      Perhaps they should. But what good does it flooding MNB with that opinion? Why not go to Nokia with it?

      “Most of them aren’t hardliner, they don’t ask to abandon WP, just want more option (in SMARTPHONE, not in dumbphone).”

      Sure. I don’t think that is unreasonable, but I also see why Nokia chose against it. Time will tell if that choise was a bad one. If someone wants to change the choice, though, I don’t know if making MNB a miserable place (see e.g. the president of Finland thread) is the way to go. Some of the commentary is just way, way over the top.

      P.S. I have no problem with people airing their grievances in the proper threads, especially if there is constructive discussion. And I’d never advocate on deleting any comments even in the wrong threads. But I do think the misery overall has gone too far and has been invading discussions and threads here where some self-control would be warranted.

      • keizka says:

        Kudos about that misery part. Feels sometimes like it’s the Finnish character (sadness, angst, frustration etc) that has somehow became transplanted here. Sad…

        • dr_zorg says:

          You feel it isn’t justified? I want to see you talking to the Nokia employees that have just lost their jobs, explaining how their sadness and frustration are unwarranted and the future is actually very bright and rosy :)

          • Janne says:

            Everybody deals with bad news in their own way. I feel that many people here are imposing their misery on others, who have already processed it and moved on. For example all the hate in such a trivial thread as the president gifting Lumias thread, or the endless “fuck Elop”, “N9 this and that” comments in almost every thread… Such are mostly hurting other readers here – readers who are innocent to the stuff that happened.

            I acknowledge many people feel bad, but that feels to me like no excuse – over one year after Feb11 – to impose it on others. Just my opinion.

      • Linukia says:

        “…But what can we do about it? Bitch and moan…”

        Don’t underestimate the cry & the moan, I’ve seen the downfall of goverments in several countries, because of protests from their own people. Even I’m only ordinary phone buyer, don’t even think I’m powerless, I can persuade less-techie people around me to avoid Lumias, if I want to.

        “…Why not go to Nokia with it?…”

        I’ve sent 3 e-mails to Nokia, suggesting to not go WP only, but they don;t reply at all. (they always reply, except for that topic)

        Well, I also have fun & enjoy reading the debate at MNB.

        • dr_zorg says:

          I’ve sent two emails to Elop, no reply :)

          That’s when I’ve started to persuade people to avoid Windows phone like the plague and buy an N9 instead. With success in terms of – none have bought the Lumia, some have bought the N9 or another Symbian device (N8 or E7) and some have switched to Android or iOS.

          And there are thousands of people that are doing the same. So yes, it’s wrong to underestimate the power of discontent.

          • Janne says:

            Good for you. I am sure all those Androids bought is helping all the people working at Nokia, whom you showed concern a couple of messages up.

  21. lordstar says:

    How about we put up a poll to see the numbers if we agree or disagree with the windows only policy for the smartphone division of Nokia?

    • Saul says:

      The no’s will have shifted to WP-only…
      They’ll def. be stronger than Symbian or Maemo/MeeGo on their own.
      If not it’s only a matter of time, perhaps one more quarter :(

    • dr_zorg says:

      Not practical.

      That poll will be flooded by MS bots to turn the result in favour of WP. Seen that done on other sites. That kind of poll would solve nothing, just cause another flamewar.

  22. dadsf says:

    I love this graphic, I’ll put it on my t-shirt in front and on back I’ll put N9 with “Lovers gona love”. How do you think does this comments the situation enough or another windows brainwashing we will have? Nokia N9 is Nokia flagship. Windows failed and will never be attractive. Better read this and start think what you will do when Nokia finally will fall? With Windows whatever – loved or hated? Here: In memoriam: Microsoft’s previous strategic mobile partners http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/

  23. nokia lumia is an awesome phone…its worth buying…

  24. eoJyzrC says:

    Here is my own stream of thought rant. I have no actual reference to support any of this. However, just tid bits of information gathered over time, and of course our own opinions. My apologies if my rant jumps all over the place. I will be typing as I am thinking aloud. Of course the popular quote of “Opinions are like @ssholes, everybody has one.”

    I of all people own a Dell Venue Pro, running WP7. Of all hardware makers, and OS’s, I picked the most obscure device and OS.

    Owning a DVP made me realize how important it is to have a strong hardware maker. As we all know Dell has decided to quite the mobile hardware manufacturing on not only the WP OS, but also the Android OS.

    WP7? Why and wtf? I couldn’t afford an iPhone, I coveted it, but it was out of my price range. The iOS eco is probably the best thought out of all Mobile OS’s. Very likely many cues were taken from Nokia’s Symbian and made into a better mouse trap. No different from Apple with their GUI originally taken from Xerox (but thats ancient history) Apple thinks outside the box, and can take your diamond in the rough idea and make it work.

    I didn’t like Android because it IS so fragmented. I had a Sony Ericsson Experia, I returned it before the 7 day return policy expired. It was running an old Android OS 2.1, which after 5 days of intensive web searching, I realized that SE was probably never going to upgrade to 2.3 or whatever the latest revision was at the time. If by chance 2.3 did come out, people were probably already at ICS or GB.

    Who to blame? Android/Google, hardware makers for layering their own customized crap on top the the Android OS? Maybe a bit of both.

    So I decided what the heck, WP7. To my delight, it was a fairly intuitive Operating System. It was kinda boring, even though they give it a cool moniker of “Metro Tiles”, whatever. It was different it was smooth, it had very little apps, but hey… whenever you start new (even after leaving your 6.5 OS developers out to dry), you need to start somewhere. Lets call WP7, 7.5 and 7.8 as the cost of tuition. MS is paying tuition to learn from their mistakes of the past three revision. WP8 users, we hope that moving forward, it’ll be more like the Apple iOS where it will be backwards and forward compatible until it is the hardware that reaches its limitation, rather than just pumping new OS for the sake of spurring more sales (cough android..cough)

    Why is hardware maker important? Well my choice of Dell was a lesson learned. LG, Samsung, (nah I believe they are opportunists). Nokia well, we all know about the famed “two burning platforms, Symbian & meego”) Then add the WP7 OS, you have one maker with 3 platforms. People are going to get confused. What else can you do? Internal bickering, confusion, who knows what else was brewing. Nokia is no saint by all means. We’ve seen some of their greatest phones (N95) to some of their most shameful ones. NGage/Tacos, Sidetalker….good grief. But even with Ngage, they were thinking ahead of their time. I am sure many companies saw what they were doing and decided smartphones are smarter the way they are today because of it. Just bad timing, bad execution, or bad management? Who knows.

    My belief is Nokia is ALL IN, and in it for the long haul. Nokia conspiracy or not, people say got shafted by Microsoft. I believe they made the right move strategically to stick with one ecosystem…that being WP. If they do Android, they are just a schmuck sharing the Android portion of the pie that has already been carved out between iOS, Android and Blackberry. Case in point. Sony Ericsson, I used to jump back and forth between NOK and SE. NOK for the longest time, till some sweet SE designs came forth. SE now in the Android camp, taking a look at their current phones, they look stunning. But are their sales any better when it used to be just NOK vs SE in the old days? Nope. I don’t think they grabbed any significant marketshare by aligning with Android. Even though they have probably the most prestigious name within the Android playing field. Well, looks like HTC, LG and Samsung caught up and surpassed SE.

    So, if I were NOK, and I see SE (my former biggest competitor) just treading water to get by. Yah, I’d partner up with Google…NOT.

    Is Apple going to let NOK in on iOS? Laughable….

    Partnering up with Microsoft seems like a marriage of convenience, but it gives NOK an edge on WP development over all other WP makers.

    Look at all the WP hones out there now. Most are NOK’s. Only now are Samsun, LG, and HTC attempting to come out with more WP phones. Prior to that, they were just hardware with bare minimum specs to meet the WP7 criteria. But I believe the other Asian makers now dabbling on WP8 because they start seeing traction from WP sales. If NOK succeeds, it is the Android market share that is going to suffer the most, as the have the most to lose. Personally I wish Microsoft would just select ONE hardware maker, that being NOK. Since NOK has so much experience in manufacturing, as well as being able to provide a good range of low end and high end WP8. This way software updates are not dependent on when each manufacturer gets around to it. Keep It Simple Stupid.

    It works for Apple, it can work for NOK/MSFT. Android… yeah you keep rooting your rag tag junk. If I can get the same job done on a single processor than that of a quad this, hyper that…. something tells me that someone has bloated OS, and it ain’t Microsoft this time.

    I see just as many people wanting Lumia 920′s on craigslist as there are people wanting LG N4, and iPhone 5s. There is demand.

    Ever wonder how open Android OS really is? The hypocrite company that came up with the slogan don’t be evil. The same company that goes and steals wifi passwords (dude some real coding had to be done to do that) the company that loves to track and store a database of you. Your android phone just becomes another avenue for them to build a profile of you. (Oh I have nothing to hide, so it why should I care what they do). Uh, ok buddy. No one realizes how precious certain things can be till they lose it.

    You think Motorola was just for IP? My guess is all Nexus phones that come with NO manufacturer or carrier crapware is simple testing of pure Android demand. They are setting up MOT to be the Google hardware manufacturing arm. Control end to end process of the phone and have android installed they way they want it.

    Samsung knows it, but Android is their bread and butter right now. Both companies are opportunist, and they are just biding their time to ready the stab in the back.

    I regret not getting a Lumia 800/900 back in the day. But I will have a chance to get a 82x or 92x one day, when it is available in Pentaband. Running AWS 1700/2100 has its limitations on the hardware maker.

    Long live Nokia, long live Microsoft. The two fallen kings will try to reclaim their name to fame once again. What some people say is a match made in Hell. I believe is actually is a match that was once of convenience, now turned into a solid relationship… if Microsoft, ditches all the other hardware makers. Stick and support only one, that being NOKIA. Their scalability is actually perfect for a WP OS ecosystem. Microsoft should reciprocate and support the single company that supported them. Or at least until enough traction is made in the WP camp, to then drop the other manufacturers.

    • Nathan says:

      Do you realise what terrible etiquette it is to rant (as you put it) in such an ancient thread?
      There’s been HEAPS of FAR NEWER threads discussing the same sort of thing @MNB…
      Posting stuff like this in such an ancient thread, is tantamount to just spamming people >.>

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