What’s the logic behind Nokia’s launch schedule? (Rant)

| June 11, 2013 | 104 Replies

Just a few days ago we saw the sales launch of the Lumia 925 in Germany. There isn’t much more to say about the 925 other than that it is an improved version of the 920. A good one in my eyes, after all it addresses quite a few ‘problems’ some smartphone buyers might have with the 920 like its weight and thickness.

Considering the significant improvements and arguable better visual design of the 925 one would assume that Nokia is trying to get it out into the market quickly and bolster up the still meagre sales numbers of their Windows Phone line up, right? Right?!?

Apparently that isn’t the case. It did go in on sale in Germany but just today I learned that its western neighbour, the Netherlands, will only see the 925 going on sale late this year. Late, as in late Q4! What’s up with that?


This the exact same thing that happened with the 920, first have it available in the US only and then launch it a few months later in some European countries and a few months after that in a few more. Of course, there were supply constraints and the hardware in the 920 was fairly new anyway so a staggered launch did seem to make sense. The 925 however is a warmed up version of the 920.

I understand why a company launches devices in a staggered fashion, it makes sense sometimes either from a financial standpoint (low stock and manufacture on a need basis) or from the standpoint of creating the ‘want factor’ for those who can’t get it yet. What I don’t get is these weird segmented areas. The 920 was available in France and Germany months before it was in Belgium and the Netherlands. Has Nokia somehow determined that Lumia’s aren’t being sold in the aforementioned countries? The Lumia 800 was available at launch in the Netherlands, but that wasn’t  a device to judge momentum or interest by. Only die hard Nokia fans or Windows Phone fans bought that.

Again, a staggered launch is understandable. But launching a device or product approximately 4-5 months later (to expected from info now available from Nokia) in a neighbouring country is insane and frankly beyond me. Especially when you consider the Netherlands having a very high smartphone adoption rate and a fairly high (smart)phone refresh rate.

So Nokia, what’s the theory behind this rather weird launch strategy? (Again)


Category: Nokia

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  • et3rnal

    Hope it wont take ages to come to Australia otherwise ill buy something else other than 3 month old phone!


    Wonder what’s going to happen if an Lumia 940 is launched this fall. Lumia EOS will be a niche device.

    The Lumia 925 won’t launch this fall as the next Nokia hero device in Holland. Just as an improved 920 (which will be strange if the 940 is presented at the same time). The 925 will have to drop a lot in price when it’s introduced here.

    • Chris_Skylock

      it is Lumia 950. Nokia dont like number 4

      • SLAYER

        Ever heard of the 3410?

        and anyway why would they jump to 940? 930 sounds more reasonable.

        • Marc Aurel

          There are a couple of old phones with the number four in them, but those probably were never sold in China. For example instead of the 3410 the 3315 was sold in China.

  • Viipottaja

    Serves you Dutch right with those wooden clogs! 😉 😛

  • Peter Peter

    My guess is that this is an issue of operator/carrier support. Nokia will release it where it has the partners in place to make it work. It comes across like very poor planning, but until Nokia has a stronger position in the marketplace it might be like this for a while.

    • There are a lot of independant stores that sell devices outright without a contract. In fact the sales of these contractless phones have been rising over the past few years. Even these outlets can’t sell any official Dutch variant. The ones that do sell do it at premium prices or have a limited supply.

      It wouldn’t be that hard to sell the contract less variants, or is it?

      [edit] Nokia even had a few offcial partners for the launch of the 920 in the Netherlands. Those stores weren’t even able to deliver until late March for simple White 920’s. I won’t mention the yellow as there might even be some waiting for that 😛

      • Peter Peter

        It’s true that there are independent stores, but Nokia is going to focus its supply on those places that can move large unit counts AND guarantee marketing support. The independent shops are not putting marketing money into these phones like the operators will, except for maybe PhoneHouse.

        The Netherlands may also be a challenge for Nokia. While the Netherlands may have the interest, its market size is relatively small when compared with France or Germany. Almost any operator in those countries is larger than the entire number of phones in the Netherlands. If they’re trying to maximize the marketing, this country may be a lower priority.

    • kneel before zod


  • StefanP

    Is this the 32GB version being launched first? This would be Vodafone only anyway.

    • Bassman

      Yes, the Vodafone version should be available from today in the UK (from pre orders). I believe other carriers, like O2 and 3 are aiming to have the phone available towards the end of the month iirc.

  • eeteet

    Nokia has one big problem. They start selling new devices gradually. Like 925, first Germany, then few other countries and after few monhts they sell with greater volumes. Why is that? Why they can’t bring from the start to 30 to 50 countries? Why they can’t make those with big volumes from the start?

    • As I wrote in the post, I understand a staggered launch. What I don’t understand is how it is divided. France and Germany do get a certain phone, yet the two small countries that kind of lei in between (Belgium/Netherlands) don’t get it.

      If they stagger a launch for say Asia a bit later compared to Europe or the US I can understand that. But this dividing up of Europe is beyond me.

      • Viipottaja

        Blame the EU (or rather, EU countries lack of willingness to creat a TRULY unified market). Entering any individual country still means a fairly significant incremental “overhead” cost which may not be justified given the small size of those markets you mention as examples. See also my comment below.

        • As in what exactly? Curious here.

          As far as I can tell there isn’t a whole load of customization needed. Going by the scenario of contractless phone. All certification is EU wide AFAIK so what is there to change really? HW wise there is never a change between EU countries anyway, it is mostly SW related. And even that SW is mostly altered to better cater to certain carriers in a particular country.

          My 920 works all across Europe without any change and with near every SIM available in said countries. So what would be stopping Nokia in selling devices outright? Again, curious here.

          [edit] To add to that; it isn’t so much the staggered launch that I don’t understand, but more the time it takes to do it. Why postpone a neighbouring country that isn’t even that large for 4-6 months? 1 maybe 2, I could understand. But 4-6 months for a phone that is basically just an improved version of a phone that should have been like that to begin with. From the persecptive of saleability it is beyond me, unless they price it accordingly. I doubt that however.

          The only reason I can think of right now is that the HTC One and SGS4 are just out in NL and therefor Nokia decides to wait it out a while. On the other hand the situation is probably similar in other European countries as the One and S4 have been launched a bit broader than the 925 right now.

      • Diazene

        yes, because Europeans are better than Asians, Asians are nothing /s

    • Viipottaja

      Given Nokia’s current smaller resources, financial means and negoatioan power, to start producing a single model for 50 countries on day one might well be a problem with regard to supply chain and production capacity, and the optimization of those.

      Imagine you have 5 plants to manufacture/assemble your smartphones (not all plants can/are designed for making smartphones). You have about 15 models. Does it make sense to apportion that capacity across the range of those devices, over a certain period of time, and keep gradually adjusting the production volume of each model AND ramping up overall production capacity as your sales numbers, globally, climb up and you also have better visibility on what your numbers are likely to be in the coming quarters?

      OR does it make sense say tie 75% of your production capacity to produce enough 925s to serve 50 countries from day one?

      I don’t know, but I am guessing its probably more along the lines of the first scenario.

      Add to that other considerations such marketing resources and focusing those, the roll out new and phase down of older models, the line up still unannounced models and the roll out of those, carrier relationships, the stated strategy of focusing more on key markets (which NL, Belgium, Finland and the like are not) at this stage of the strategy implementation etc. etc., and you start coming up with a fairly complex picture and you might even start seeing _some_ logic to how Nokia is doing it for the time being.

      Explaining and understanding.

      • v.s.i

        If they hadn’t closed the plant in Salo they could have served Europe better. But hey, those Finnish workers demanded an actual sallary, rather than the Chinese…

        • Viipottaja


          Salaries were for sure one factor, but overall cost cutting and rationalization to supply chain,markets and Nokia’s current means/scale more important ones, probably.

          • v.s.i

            Yeah, Europe was pretty much void of top Nokias when they closed it (couple of months before L800 was launched if I remember correctly). It was iPhone and droid land. Imagine then the irony of not being able to keep up with the demand for the new Lumias just a year later AND not ever seeing the ‘Made in Finland’ label on a Nokia again (glad I got my N9 on time).

        • Trappist

          The problem with the Salo plant in Finland was primarily geographical, not salaries. it was a logistical nightmare, originally built for completely different purposes in the 80s or 70s. It laid far from any harbour and lacked a railroad connection, being accessible only by a two-lane highway in a small town. That is, by trucks only. It is the last place you want to assemble mobile phones in a modern supply chain involving Asian component makers and global customers. There is a reason why the main European plant was in Hungary, in the middle of Europe, close to an airport, railroad and a highway network.

      • nn

        Pretty much. People keep forgetting that WP isn’t Symbian. With WP sales and earnings it’s impossible to make global launch campaigns, they no longer have the money, it’s one of the many ways Elop made Nokia inherently self limited.

        Then it’s a matter of decision where you put your little resources. And with the logic of new strategy US is the top priority, the rest of the world is secondary.

        • Viipottaja

          US is one of the priorities. Nokia appears to me have put as much or more effort to UK, India, China, for example (for sure in terms of its own marketing).

          • nn

            Nokia appears to me have put as much or more effort to UK, India, China, for example (for sure in terms of its own marketing).

            The obvious question: do you have numbers? Care to share them?

            • twig


              • nn

                Actually, I have something better than numbers – proud admission from Nokia heads that this is their strategy, along with the demented logic that US is important market, leading the world.

                Nokia to Sell Phone Through Verizon to Step Up U.S. Push

                The U.S. market is crucial in the smartphone business because most innovative devices are often introduced there, and handsets that become successful there gain attention globally and tend to find buyers in other countries.

                The market is “essential for Nokia to capture if it’s to seize some high-margin business.”

                “Winning U.S. customers is a top priority for Nokia, and Chris’s efforts to strike our first deal with Verizon in over three years is proof that we’re on the right track,” Elop said in an e-mail.

                Etc, etc, … you had to be blind to not to see the cargo cult that tries to emulate Apple.

                • Janne

                  Winning U.S. customers is a top priority

                  …there is that all-important *a*… 😉

                  • nn

                    You know, it’s quite funny to see people suddenly hand waving that Elop never cared about US that much, it was always just one not terribly important country among others, and they certainly didn’t think anything special about US.

                    Isn’t it amazing what few quarters of cold reality results can do? One almost wants Elop to succeed in US, just to see yet another reversal.

                    • Janne

                      You know, it’s quite funny to see people suddenly hand waving that Elop never cared about US that much, it was always just one not terribly important country among others, and they certainly didn’t think anything special about US.

                      Your turn to go with a strawman. Fair enough. 😉

                      Like I said, Nokia definitely cares about the U.S. because of the U.S. media and app influence that resonates throughout the world. Elop has repeated this view very recently in public too, so it still stands. Getting operators to play ball in the U.S. requires some unique approaches, hence they employ those in the U.S. – such aren’t required in other major markets.

                      That said, I believe myself and Viipottaja are of the opinion that U.S. is definitely not *the* top market for Nokia, nor the reason they went with WP. It is a top target, for reasons mentioned above, but not end-all-be-all for them.

                    • Viipottaja

                      Haha, you truly are a master of twisting words. Czech politics is missing a great new character in you! 😉

                    • nn


                      OK, so on one hand we have big narrative build around the special importance of US (and you seem to agree on that), we have statements that US is top priority, we have lot of these little things like exclusive devices, prioritizing of supplies, (unverified) numbers about massive launch campaigns, etc.

                      On the other hand there is… man saying he doesn’t see much Nokia ads in TV relative to other countries.

                      You seriously think that is enough to counter all the other evidence? Well, I don’t.

                    • nn


                      Don’t worry there is nobody missing here, my little people just love me too much to let me go!

                      Now logging off, there is some voting in parliament…

                • MF


                  Nah, I will stick with numbers/hard evidence. The thing about quoting company executives is that it can mean a million things. At the most basic level it can be just a simple statement of intent, or some PR kind of message. It doesn’t prove anything.

                  Now, you can have a genuine “gotcha” moment if some top executives say that Nokia is capable of selling 100 million Lumias worldwide, but because only the US matters while other countries do not, they decide to only produce 4 million units for the US.

                  On the other hand, perhaps Nokia is only capable of producing limited supplies of phones, and decided to direct those limited quantities to AT&T exclusively due to the large marketing backing from AT&T/Microsoft. Under this scenario, the decision was not only due to “a top priority” but also taking into account the company’s limited resources and financial incentives.

                  You see, criticizing someone is not just a matter of quoting individual snippets or some unconnected info without offering a proper analysis taking into account any constraints or other alternative strategies.

                  • Janne

                    Excellent post, MF. I agree with the hypothesis you present as well. Good points.

                  • nn

                    Except it’s not just one random remark in one press release. It’s whole argument backed by (faulty) logic and Elop’s line naturally follows from it. More than that, they are saying it consistently from the start, this article was just first hit on google. In fact we are talking about the failure in US precisely because they put so much importance on US, otherwise it would be one of the better countries where the crash wasn’t so big (because there was not much to crash, anyway).

                    But if you can show me press releases and interviews where they are saying about other countries how they too are world smartphone leaders that others just follow and for that reason they are making these countries top priority, how they are starting the big bad operation rolling thunder there and all that crap they said about importance of US… Now that would be really good evidence it’s nothing more than standard PR filler.

                    • MF

                      Sure, company execs can say all they want. That doesn’t mean anything. Just because something is declared as a top priority does not mean other things get neglected. For that, you need to show exactly HOW those things get neglected. And EVEN IF some things do get neglected does not mean it is not the right thing to do. For that, you need to show exactly how alternative strategies could have worked better (not just some generic statements like if they focused more at Country ABC they would have sold more phones), and address the possibility that YOUR alternative strategy might also have failed. I can only say you are making several degrees of assumptions here.

                      And of course you are entitled to make many levels of assumptions. Just don’t pass them off as facts, but accept that you are just making an armchair view. And don’t dump the burden of proof onto others who disagree with your assumption or who felt your logic is flawed. It is sufficient to just demonstrate possible/plausible flaws or holes in the logic, to invalidate your assertion of fact.

                      Once upon a time, there was a wise man who gazed up at the sky, and counted 5 planets. “Five planets exist in this universe”, he declared. His dumb follower asked “but… perhaps there are planets you might not have seen?”. The wise man boomed, “Prove to me that the number of planets is not five.”

                    • nn

                      Execs of publicly traded companies certainly can not say all they want.

                      You are apparently well aware of my arguments about how Nokia specifically prefers US as you are trying to make counter argument against one of them.

                      Perhaps I don’t entirely understand the what’s with the alternative strategies, but If you claim that saying you are going to do something, offering explanation of why you are going to do it and then doing it consistently over time doesn’t mean the act is consequence of the expressed intent and that the causality would be somehow established by showing the act wasn’t the only possibility… well go on and be my guest. I don’t think such interesting idea needs any further comments from me, I’m just going to sit and watch the show.

        • sbw44

          The sad thing is after two years of treating US as top priority they have lost 0.1% this quarter, leaving it with a mere 3% market share. When is Elop gonna realize Nokia will never penetrate the US with WP. Americans love Android and iOS to much and that won’t change anytime soon!

          • twig


          • Viipottaja

            They have? Which data set are you referring to? There are so many estimates its hard to keep track.

            But, generally speaking, the market share in the US remains very small. What is much more encouraging though is that top three US carriers have taken on a Lumia after Lumia after Lumia after Lumia. Something that has not happened since about 2004.

            • nn

              What is so encouraging about it? I thought Nokia was in business of selling phones and not putting then on carriers shelves.

              I’m sure if you are willing to roll over, pay the full price and then add some on top of that, carriers will be happy to include your phone in their offer. It just depends on how much you want to sacrifice.

              So if Elop decided to push the boundaries of what was Nokia willing to do, fine. But somehow I can’t see progress in that, especially if the results are notably worse then with the previous approach.

              • Viipottaja

                The carriers are advertising, training,their staff, indeed using significant retail space etc. so it is much more than,”just taking the phone” to the line up. Adn, each of of them have done,it repeatedly now and appear to be planning more. So, yes, I consider it very encouraging, in particular compared to what the situation here was years on end.

                • nn

                  I guess you missed the part about “pay the full price and then add some on top of that”.

                  It was encouraging year ago. But now when we know the results and they are significantly worse than before, it’s rather discouraging to see Nokia pointlessly continue with this nonsense of US smartphone market uber alles. But I guess there is too much egos invested, so the failure can’t be admitted.

                  • Viipottaja

                    🙂 care to provide some evidence “pay the full price and then add some on top of that”

                    second stop the “uber alles” nonsense, US is and always has been just ONE of the priority markets.

                    • nn

                      I have as much numbers for that as you have for claim that it’s carriers who pay for these things. What I’m basing it on is simple observation of the situation on the battlefield – carriers don’t need MS, which wants to turn them into dumb bitmovers anyway, for anything and WP is sales failure, so there is zero push even from customers.

                      But WP fans can’t get past the mesmerizing idea that everyone is falling over themselves to have WP on shelves and that together with Elop’s big blue eyes the urge to sign contract with Nokia is irresistible.

                      I provided quote straight out of Elop’s fingers that US indeed is top priority for him. So what about you finally start supporting your assertions with some evidence?

                    • Viipottaja

                      Do you know the difference between “A” and “THE”. USA is A top priority for Nokia. Not THE top priority.

                      I have said many times US WP market share is miniscule, and thus Nokia market share is even more miniscule (Janne, take note of the grammar 😛 ).

                      That does not mean that having top three carriers taking on Lumias one after the other is not encouraging compared to what the situation for Nokia used to be since about 2004. Heck, even the fact that now you can actually see an occasional TV add with Nokias on them is encouraging.

                    • Janne

                      I would say Nokia’s U.S. success has been minisculer than their mediocrely ways elsewhere.

                    • nn

                      Yes, getting into US clearly isn’t the only top priority of all the tasks at Nokia, but it is top priority market. Nokia is saying that and they even give you the rationale.

                      Anyway, I see you have zero evidence for your claim that US is just another big market, with no bigger push from Nokia than elsewhere.

                      OK, so now even airing TV ad is encouraging. I guess next encouraging thing will be that Nokia is able to pay for billboard or two, then that they still have the money to print paper posters and hand them to people on streets, etc. Encouraging progress all around!

                    • Janne

                      No no, not encouraging, minisculerly mediocrely progress. Get with the program, mann.

                    • nn

                      I thought we were saving mediocre progress for the time when we will cheer that Nokia is buying new IKEA carpet into CEO’s rented office, finally breaking the company free from sad Symbian years.

                    • Janne

                      It really is funny, we’ve been at this for what a couple of years now and we probably aren’t anywhere closer to understanding or agreeing with each other than on day 1. 🙂

                      You have to laugh that off. Internet is hilarious.

                    • Viipottaja

                      “Yes, getting into US clearly isn’t the only top priority of all the tasks at Nokia, but it is top priority market. Nokia is saying that and they even give you the rationale.”

                      Yes, when did I ever say US is not a priority for Nokia?

                      “Anyway, I see you have zero evidence for your claim that US is just another big market, with no bigger push from Nokia than elsewhere.”

                      E.g. India UK and Germany have both had big Nokia paid Lumia marketing campaigns (which, btw, the US has not had), various carrier deals and timed or model exclusives, AFAIK China the same; new Lumia models have regularly first come out in the UK, Germany, India, China (latest example being the 925).

                      What is your proof that they have put much more effort (not press release or press email words) on the US than the other major markets?

                    • nn

                      I don’t know, what about all the time you are saying they are not putting top priority efforts into US? Even using formulations that suggest they run smaller campaigns in US than in other countries? Or is your point that US is top priority market only on paper and in Elop’s speeches, but in terms of actual resources employed it may not even be the biggest one?

                      I’m not saying that there are absolutely no efforts and no marketing campaigns outside of US. They clearly trying to do something in other countries too, and not insignificant something. Rather I’m asking about the claim that they “have put as much or more effort to UK, India, China, for example (for sure in terms of its own marketing)”.

                      Thanks for bringing in the 928/925 situation, it nicely proves my point. For what carrier in Germany Nokia made special Lumia model designated with separate number? In India? UK? Only US carrier is getting special Lumia 928, the rest of the world has to do with on model – 925.

                      (China Mobile got 920T simply because they use different technology and standard 920 wouldn’t work in their network. So at best it shows Nokia don’t want to completely cut out the biggest carrier in the world, but they won’t bother to do anything above the absolute minimum even for them.)

                    • Viipottaja

                      “they are not putting top priority efforts into US?”

                      When did I say that? I keep saying that US is A priority among others, and you keep coming back claiming I said it is not a priority. IT IS A PRIORITY! Clear now? 🙂

                      ” Even using formulations that suggest they run smaller campaigns in US than in other countries?”

                      Yes, I said they = Nokia are for sure running much smaller ad campaigns here (you may have not been to the US recently, I guess) for Lumias than they did in some of the other countries.

                      “Thanks for bringing in the 928/925 situation, it nicely proves my point. For what carrier in Germany Nokia made special Lumia model designated with separate number? In India? UK? Only US carrier is getting special Lumia 928, the rest of the world has to do with on model – 925.”

                      Did I claim there were? I said carrier exclusivity. Not carrier exclusive MODELS. Plus, having carrier exclusive models in the US (with the exception of the 928 basically just variations to the shell of the phones) does not mean they are not putting as much or more resources to other countries. It is obviously not as if they developed the Xenon capability for the 928 only, it it?

                      Btw, there is the 505 too.

                    • Viipottaja

                      Oh and boo hoo hoo, US is only getting the 925 later in June if not in July.. that must mean US is not even A priority, right? Boo hoo hoo. 😛

                    • nn

                      As far as I know, US is getting both 925 and 928.

                    • Janne

                      U.S. is a notoriously different market to enter. I think nn is right in the sense that Nokia has employed different tactics there, although I’m not sure I agree with the reasoning he takes from there – or actually, I’m sure I don’t. 🙂

                      810, 822 and 928 or course are not the only carrier-exclusive Lumia models in the world. We have seen the 505 in Mexico. However, it is true that most of Nokia’s efforts to this effect have happened in the U.S. and not elsewhere.

                      The thing about U.S., though, is that these carrier-exclusive variants are quite unique to that market. While carrier-exclusivity itself has been elsewhere, I can’t think of any other major market where carriers would prefer to have slightly differently designed and monickered versions of the same product just for themselves. In this, among the major markets, U.S. is unique.

                      And hence, Nokia’s tactics in the U.S. are now unique. They tried, under Ollila and OPK, to win U.S. by selling the concept of unlocked and bypassing the operators. That didn’t work, so now they are trying something else.

                      I do agree, though, with Viipottaja that U.S. is just *a* priority market for Nokia. U.S. is important, and Elop has answered this many times in various interviews, AGMs and whatnots, because the U.S. media and popular culture has influence world-wide. And because much of the app-development happens in the U.S. So, I’m sure Nokia is placing some bets on the U.S. that are disproportionate to their sales success there, because those bets will resonate world-wide through media and apps.

                      That said, I don’t think U.S. is at all the reason Nokia went with WP or the main focus of Nokia’s world-view these days. That’s just bollocks. For example, Nokia’s marketing efforts – and even those of Microsoft – have been recently geared towards the markets where Lumia has seen greatest traction, the emerging markets and markets where they can compete on price (where it isn’t hidden by operator subsidy) and where the ecosystem-lock-in isn’t so great (first time smartphone buyers etc., this is also a major part of their U.S. strategy now).

                    • nn


                      Here you said precisely that:

                      Nokia appears to me have put as much or more effort to UK, India, China, for example (for sure in terms of its own marketing).

                      By your statement Nokia is putting less efforts to US than to other markets (and the same at best).

                      I asked for evidence for that. So far you have presented none. And no, tossing around suggestive question if I have been in US recently isn’t evidence.

                    • Viipottaja

                      🙂 Conviniently ignoring the “as much” which means… err.. that they may well be putting as much effort into the US as other priority markets. And even putting less effort into the US would not mean its still not a priority market.

                      Janne is of course right that they _may_ be putting more effort/money into the US per unit sold than some other markets. And obviously they are using different tactits in different markets.

                      I have presented evidence, certainly much more than you have of the reverse. And Janne has added to that.

                      My note that you may have not visited the US recently was merely in the context of ad campaigns as if you had, you would probably agree that there has been very little advertisement in the US by Nokia itself.

                    • nn


                      Actually, I took notice of the or-equal part – that’s what the “and the same at best” in parenthesis was about. Please don’t ignore things just because they are in parenthesis, maybe they answer your question!

                      I understand very well what you remark about me being in US meant. What you probably fail to understand is that your really can’t compare Nokia’s efforts in different countries just by personally gazing out of hotel room window. So it’s totally irrelevant if I was there recently or not and what I think about the ads I saw.

                      Obviously I totally missed all the evidence you have amassed here. Or perhaps you have really strange definition of “evidence”.

                    • Janne

                      Let it go Viipottaja, nn will ignore everything anyone online ever says unless a) it fits into his view of the world (in which case no evidence is required) b) unless you have peer-reviewed scientific evidence to back up your view (which he would probably ignore still). It is pointless to hash a topic like this with someone like that. No understanding is generated, because the expectations are unreasonable.

                      Luckily not all Internet is like that, otherwise all discussion online would be pointless because it is unreasonable to expect everyone having scientific proof of everything. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of value online even when no such evidence is available. Even imperfect/unproven insight can be valuable, when put into perspective of course.

                    • Viipottaja

                      🙂 No, I didn’t ignore what you said at all. It is probably more you ignoring what I say.

                      No, visiting countries is not completely irrelevant. Assuming of course one ventures outside of the confines of a hopefully cozy hotel room. 😀

                      Janne, I am happy to entertain.. 😉

                    • Janne

                      I point to my response to nn here, I think that sums it up:


                      When Viipottaja says he hasn’t seen many commercials in the U.S. I do place some value on that. When added to that his other apparent (and proven-over-time) insight into things Nokia, I place a little more value on that. Then, finally, I add the fact that experiences of one person – in one or few locales – obviously can’t represent an entire nation. So, I put it into perspective. I don’t think Viipottaja’s views are end-or-be-all, but past has given me reason to place some value onto them.

                      nn, he has far higher expectations of people having online discussions. He demands proof of everything, while offering very little in return – expect debate. Unless proof is shown (one that he accepts, very high standard to meet), he will disregard the entire conversation. Pointless to participate.

                    • nn


                      Where I ever said anything about “peer-reviewed scientific evidence”? Nowhere, you are just making up big strawman.

                      The problem is you and Viipottaja are making strong claims that aren’t entirely obvious to say at least. And then when questioned present no supporting evidence other than saying it’s based on personal feelings about things that can’t possibly be known just by looking out of window by one person.

                      Yes, I know that on interwebs “discussion” often goes like “US has big campaign! I saw billboard!” says one, then someone else comes along and proclaims “US has miniscule campaing! I didn’t saw the billboard!” “No, it’s mediocre! I heard there was billboard with one half tore off!” says third one. That repeats ad infinitum leading to total mishmash where there is nothing to debate about, everyone can scream whatever wants and it has no relation to reality.

                      I know some unnamed people seems to like exactly that kind of “arguing”. When somebody demands even minimal logical thinking and something resembling rudimentary argument, these people are shocked.

                      As for possible data about Viipottaja’s claims, for example I remember there were articles about $100 million campaign for 920. So you can get something better than these subjective feelings.

                      And if you can’t get anything better, then there you also have the option of not making these claim that are contrary to other evidence. You can even consider the possibility that you may be wrong and change your position (OK, just kidding).

                    • Janne

                      I agree the peer-reviewed scientific evidence was a strawman, but it was there to make a point (slightly tongue in cheek) – not to be taken literally. To clarify that. 🙂

                    • Janne

                      I’m sure if you are willing to roll over, pay the full price and then add some on top of that, carriers will be happy to include your phone in their offer. It just depends on how much you want to sacrifice.

                      Proof? 😉

                    • nn

                      Proof of what? That carriers are after money like any other company and if you pay big enough price, they will gladly reserve place on shelves for your product?

                      You are disputing it?

                    • Viipottaja

                      Nope, proof that Nokia did.

                    • nn
                    • Janne

                      nn: I can appreciate that is your perception. I have to say, though, I do think there are interviews and releases from carriers that contradict you. I’m sure you would ignore them, so I won’t bother digging them up. 🙂 I doubt either of us could offer conclusive proof either way.

                      I think the carrier relationships are far more complex than any extreme, though. No, I’m sure they are not falling over themselves to fund WP with gazillions, but I do think various carriers are genuinely interested in the option and leverage (against a harmful duopoly) it provides.

                      I think Nokia may have fairly good deals with some carriers.

                    • nn


                      I’m sure you can find lot of PR statements from companies that they aren’t doing it for money, that they are selfishly sacrificing themselves for the benefit of humankind. You are right I would not consider such statements as evidence of some anti-money spirit and I’m quite amazed that you would.

      • eeteet

        How Samsung is able to make Galaxy S4’s 10 million pcs for one month sell? Nokia is still 2nd biggest selfphone manufacturer in world. If Nokia wants to be big smartphone manufacturer, they must be able to make millions pcs from release.

        • Janne

          Elop recently explained that the reason is lead time on some parts unique to Nokia. Some have lead times of 16-20 weeks if I recall the comment. They could order more at a time, but at the risk of having left-over stock. Clearly Nokia is pacing themselves to not have the same issue they did with the first Lumia generation. The downside is, the underestimated a lot with the Lumia 920 and hence sold less than they could have…

          • Bye bye

            If Nokia makes designs preventing them from manufacturing enough handsets, they have clearly failed on the design.

            • Janne

              Traditional view would probably be they have failed on logistics and/or sales estimates – considering the rumor is these were wholly internal components – but to each their own I guess… 😉

  • BellGo

    Ouch. That is indeed very slow. Also, I fear that Nokia is going to the old direction of releasing many devices that can be considered flagship phones, with only minor differences. I don’t even know how many “pretty much the same-highest end phones” Nokia has right now.

    • Viipottaja


  • Mac

    Sadly that’s the case with Nokia.
    Remember Nokia 301?
    It was showcased in MWC 2013 and it is still to see the light of the day.

    Same is the case with Nokia Asha 210

    • Viipottaja

      Was in Bosnia about a month ago, and there they were selling it. Was it just a fake or did I just see wrong?

      • capedonut

        seems to be out in selected markets. some complaints about battery life in “nokia discussions”

      • Janne

        Viipottaja! SHUT UP! Your local experiences don’t prove anything. You are a disgrace to the interwebs. Don’t you even have signed, notarized affidavits and GPS-stamped video with a dated newspaper showing to prove your point?

    • Janne

      I guess, funnily considering nn’s comments above, this really is a place where local experiences actually refute posts on the Internet.

      Because Nokia 301 definitely is out in Finland.

      heti = available right now from store stock

      Nokia 301 was even the top-selling phone in Finland’s largest operator in May:

  • Diazene

    unlike Samsung, who release their phones in most countries at nearly the same time, india (not my country, but a huge smartphone market) got the 2nd generation lumia series (920, 820, 620) months after the US, while the SGSIV came at nearly the same time

    and Samsung wasn’t even a large phone maker a couple of years ago

    • Viipottaja

      And now the roles have reversed. Sammy has the scale and means etc. to do what Nokia used to be able to.

      • Diazene

        but nokia has experience, has good relations with retailers, and has lots of stores over the world

        • Viipottaja

          And that’s why they hopefully can ramp up as demand for WP increases, they have returned to profitability and they more resources in their coffers.

          I suspect they are producing as many as they can and/or see appropriate given the need to manage their financial position, keep focused on executing the strategy. May they be making mistakes? Of course, and likely are. Corporations are people, to quote the magnificent Mitt Romney.. 😛 😀

          • ‘Yes, and the internet is a series of tubes’ 😛

            • Viipottaja

              I think it is clear that are some kind of magic elves involved in the internet. It is otherwise simply impossible that I can look any document in the world with my name on it (not that I have of course) in a fraction of a second!

              • One thing we can be sure of is that the internet is definitely not a dumptruck. You can’t just dump what you want on there, the tubes would get clogged.

                For those missing the thing here, look up Senator Ted Stevens

          • Diazene

            I hope they can release phones at the same time all over the world, not ramp up, even if they release like 5000 units in low demand countries to test demand, so phones would be available there, releasing a phone months later will hurt sales a lot, imagine if the SGSIII was just released in your country, or the galaxy ace, nobody would buy them

            their analysts suck, just look at the 520, they should’ve made enough units, or worked with other manufacturers

            and BTW, there are no magnificent politicians

            • Viipottaja

              I pretty much despise Mitt Romney, for the record. 🙂

              Releasing say just 5,000 units in a country would be very expensive (i.e. would rapidly eat into the margin that Nokia is getting per unit). Some scale is needed.

              Regarding the “just make more” part, see my other comments.

              • twig

                I dispose pretty much all of them, a few keepers but its time to explore “cast off” and redo. The turds too deep. Sorry NSA guys reading this, we’ll make Friday “take your NSA spy to porn day”.

  • agiel perdana

    When launch in indonesia


    mediocre rollout leads too mediocre sales 🙁

  • lumiangry

    i will habe Mine in 3 weeks 🙂

  • sinple

    i bet nokia have a device that can randomly pick countries that will launch the product and threw a dice to determine the number of months to launch the device.

  • Greg orr

    Yes very strange… ask them…!

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  • Andrey

    Nokia is very hard to understand in the US. Why release the 928 when the 925 is a better phone. Not sure how Verizon agreed to this. I hope that in the next few weeks they announce that EOS will be available on all carriers. Not very likely, but you can dream. Too many models, you just need three, top of the line, middle and low and available on the carrier of your choice.

  • robin

    Very true I live in Holland and this just sucks. I would like to buy it, my sister would like to buy it, but we can’t wtf :O

    Now I will have to order em in Germany, not a big problem but damn..