Developer feedback to Nokia-Microsoft partnership (video)

| February 23, 2011 | 23 Replies

While this is likely on the positive feedback from developers post-Elopocalypse and likely only a very small subset of the developers that are part of Forum Nokia but the fact of the matter is some developers are excited by the promise that Windows Phone on Nokia is bringing. In any case it’s probably important to note that Visual Studio and .NET are a core part of many computer science curricula.

In essence, there are more programmers and developers coming out of school knowing how to make apps and develop for WP7 than there likely would ever be Symbian C++ developers. Furthermore, the fact that Microsoft’s development tools are known the world over as some of the best available makes the decision to  use Silverlight and .Net as opposed to Qt an even better one given the breadth of familiarity in the developer community with those frameworks. That is not however, to say that Qt isn’t good in its own right, but that adoption of Windows Phone 7 and the frameworks associated make more sense from a technical standpoint than porting Qt to that platform.

Give the video a gander and be sure to keep checking back for our Windows Phone 7 impressions in the coming days.

Via Forum Nokia

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Category: Nokia

About the Author ()

So you've read something I've written. yay!! As you already know, my name is Andre and I'm currently a student based in Atlanta. Much like Jay, I pretty much blog here in my free time. Follow me on twitter @andre1989 or contact me directly at Andre(at)mynokiablog(dot)com. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or suggestions.
  • Bazil

    There is no sense in the transition from a developer point of view. I am a developer myself, and I really hate managed languages, C# and .NET. Qt is way better, more powerful, elegant and even easy to use. .NET and C# is just a piece of over-advertised crap.

    • http://mynokiablog.com/ Andre

      Note what I said
      “That is not however, to say that Qt isn’t good in its own right, but that adoption of Windows Phone 7 and the frameworks associated make more sense from a technical standpoint than porting Qt to that platform.”

      Then there’s the fact that more people coming out of school KNOW .NET and C# regardless of how crap it may be

      • S.A

        My school teaches C++ and Java.

        • http://mynokiablog.com/ Andre

          Lots of schools do but quite a few teach visual studio and C# too

          • neerajvohra

            My school teaches c++ and java too. MS shit with Nokia, I already stop developing for Nokia. Wasted my time everything for QT, personally Nokia sucks now. Accept it.

            • zonk0r

              At Least you weren’t taught Delphi at school!!

          • blert13

            I seriously doubt the quality of any school or college teaching .NET.

            The vast majority of colleges focus on C,C++ and java(unfortunately). Some focus on slightly more obscure languages, and perhaps some functional. .NET really isnt an option considered by most.

            The amount of people coming out of college actually wanting to develop using microsoft tools is ever decreasing, when I was in college for example microsoft went around trying to give their imagine cup a big push, not a single person opted to bother showing any interest. They have long since lost young developers mind share. QT has a far more enthusiastic following these days, and for good reason.

            As for silverlight, it would be dead in the water if it wasnt for WP7, even microsoft development houses arent interested in it.

            The video its self reeks of desperation, a bunch of close nokia partners sitting in a controlled environment being told to try be as positive as possible.

            All you have to do to see actual developers responses to this is visit http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/21/nokia-and-microsoft-the-developer-ecosystem/ where that video was first posted to see the overwhelming negative response.

            There is nothing positive about the windows move, stop trying to convince us.

      • Bazil

        As the others have said, any college will teach generic languages, like Java, C and C++. No respected college will ever teach a specific application framework, neither a proprietary language like C#. The computer science graduate, who already masters C++, is more likely to go to Qt (which is C++) rather than .NET (which is C#).

  • gordonH

    It technically shouldn’t be hard to Microsoft change it’s strategy to support C++ and the standard language on WP7. Maximum one year for WP7 to support QT.
    Microsoft is not willing to integrate QT for reasons highly debatable or dare I say questionable.
    I’d say WP7 is still early in the Market. Certainly Microsoft has time and money to change its .NET strategy to a QT only strategy.

    • http://mynokiablog.com/ Andre

      Xbox Live and pretty much everything associated with it is written in .NET and XNA. You can’t expect them to change that can you?

      • blert13

        No to expect microsoft themselves to switch to QT is unreasonable, but to allowing QT on the platform is not only reasonable but it should have been a requirement by Nokia. Simply put Microsoft dont want any competition on their platform, and QT has for the last few years been offering it more competition than anything else in years. There is of course the other reason, QTs use of OpenGL, its clear Microsoft desperately want directx to be successful on mobile device, but so far opengl es has dominated, which with an increase of OpenGL developers around can only mean bad things for Microsofts single platform grip on pc gaming with DirectX.

      • gordonH

        But they expected Nokia to change…. so what if I expect them to change.
        Like I said WP7 is still early in the market.

  • thecsb

    I don’t know of any CS school program that teaches to Visual Studio. My school taught three core languages over three semesters (scheme, Java, C). Everything else from there was just picked up depending on the class(OS, graphics, UI, database, AI, etc). C++, Python, Android SDK, Javascript, etc. . .

  • Smith

    Andre, are you being paid to suddenly start publicly supporting Windows Phone or is it just because you’re American?

    I’m all for putting an optimistic slant on things but the tone of this article is just nonsense. Windows Phone is crap, and the developer tools are inferior to Qt, and making developers shift to a whole new unproven OS with zero market share is insane.

    ALL developers for Nokia would do well to stick with Qt and then transition to Android or iPhone. Windows Phone makes the least sense of all.

    • Smith

      And actually if you’re a developer who REALLY wants to stay ahead of the curve and catch the next breaking wave, you’ll transition to J2ME (Java Mobile/MIDP). Yes, that old chestnut. That’s where the next great rise in apps is, for the 3-4 billion Java capable featurephones out there. It also runs on all Symbian devices.

      With the LWUIT library you can hit most of those phones, plus with minor adaptation hit Android and Blackberry too. A win for all.

      • blert13

        Your joking right?
        J2ME is quickly dying, supported platforms are rapidly decreasing and updates to the platform dont seem to particularly forthcoming, Symbian and s40 seem to be its last bastions of hope, but symbians being killed and Nokia are already talking of transforming s40. With smartphones(and feature phones J2ME biggest home) capable of running full java amongst various other platforms, really cant see any good things in J2MEs future.

    • Andre

      You got me Smith, I’m only being positive about this entire thing because I’m American.

      /S
      I’m American by birth but far from in terms of culture and if you knew me as an individual you’d know that nationalism and patriotism are
      far from prevalent behavior traits.
      Furthermore I like WP7 and not because I don’t miss the features and some of the functionality I previously had but because it’s an operating system that was clearly created by engineers but with a usage paradigm designed by designers,human factors experts or simply made to be quick and easy to use.

      Symbian on the other hand was created by engineers and a UI that was either designed by engineers,idiots or simply people not neuro-cognitively suited for the task. Say what you want about immaturity of the platform how qt is better (which I neither affirm nor denying my post or otherwise due to lack of technical expertise required to make such a judgment) but it is something people like to use, period and the newness of the codeline means there’s less of a mishmash of tons of different branches and is subsequently significantly easier to manage.

      • Don

        I agree that WP could be very good, certainly. I’ve given up on expecting a decent social app from Nokia, they just don’t deliver. Microsoft will put some very good people on it, and I am sure the maps and browser will be stunning, fast and very good. Combined with Nokia hardware, it could be an extremely nice device.

        So what’s my issue with it?

        1) There is no reason for Nokia not to support Qt on WP (note that “big publishers” are allowed to write native code, there is really no technical reason, it’s all political). Of course generic WP development tools can be used too, that’s fine, but again no reason not to support Qt, other than showing this is an ill-conceived rushed approach where they are appeasing Microsoft.

        2) It’s Microsoft. It’s going to bend itself over backwards to force me into MS everything (cloud services, email, etc). Any other OS or non-MS service will be second rate. Internet will be called “Internet Explorer” and have the usual MS deviations of the specs. Email will be called “Outlook”, and favor exchange over anything else. Forget about the device exporting itself as a generic USB mass storage device (which is so handy with the N8 to show pictures for example via another PC, a TV with USB, or something like a PS3), instead you’ll need drivers, and of course those only exist for Windows 7 upwards. It’ll have the usual Microsoft annoyances (god I hate activesync, retarded POS). I really don’t care about Bing or xbox live, or Office 360 or whatever it’s called today. I fully expect IE9 to be optimized for Microsofts cloud stuff, and mysteriously break on eg Google docs. MSN will work very well, xmpp will have issues.

        Note also the anti-GPL clause. Nokia’s Ovi Store actually handles this correctly, I’d have to dig for the exact working though. Basically, Ovi Store explicitly states they are NOT a party in the transaction, but acting between the publisher and the receiver. They are basically the same as an FTP site you use to host your GPL apps, the downloader is not entering into an agreement with the FTP server, but with the person publishing via that FTP server. (I’m paraphrasing and not that well, but the point is, Ovi Store allows open source, MS market absolutely doesn’t)

        3) It’s Microsoft (again). So I fully expect them to kill any open spirit inside Nokia, and Nokia will never release anything that competes with WP. That rules out Meego and limits Qt, for example.

      • blert13

        “that was clearly created by engineers but with a usage paradigm designed by designers,human factors experts or simply made to be quick and easy to use.”

        Really got to disagree here, to me it screams designed by committee, more animations and being different for the sake of difference = better.

        But its simply not the case, from my own personal observations and from observing people of a non technical nature attempt to use it, its a usability nightmare. Theres this bizarre mish mash of vertical main menu with giant tiles that really arent very informative and take up a lot of space, coupled with awkward and counter intuitive menus laid out in landscape on a vertical screen and huge font everywhere, all wasting space, hiding info and requiring far more swiping of the screen than should ever be necessary.

        “(which I neither affirm nor denying my post or otherwise due to lack of technical expertise required to make such a judgment)”

        It doesnt take a a technical expert to see that outside of its last domain wp7 silverlight has been a categorical, nobody microsoft houses included is interested. QT on the other hand is growing in strength every year. Developers like it.

        At its core WP7 is just Windows CE with a new interface, windows ce which Symbian was created to compete with and successfully destroyed. At its core Symbian is the better OS. All Nokia needed was to the very same thing put a new interface on top of Symbians core. Instead they threw away years of investment and development and turned to the one thing it was created to compete with in the first place.

        “the newness of the codeline means there’s less of a mishmash of tons of different branches and is subsequently significantly easier to manage.”

        A new QT interface on top of symbians core and scrapping of the likes of avkon completely should have done just that on top of a more solid core.

        • http://mynokiablog.com/ Andre

          Soooo I take it you’ve used WP7 right? Or are you basing this on what you’ve “seen”

          • blert13

            Of course I have and observed others attempt to use it. I think the general complete lack of interest the world outside the US has shown to WP7 speak volumes.
            I wouldn’t attempt to comment on something I hadn’t at least tried.
            I for example dislike apples approach to software, pricing and business practices, but I have to tip my hat to them they have done a great job usability wise. Ill give credit where credit is due, even if it is begrudgingly

  • Jack

    “Visual Studio and .NET are a core part of many computer science curricula.”
    If anyone specifically learns this at an university then he should switch to a different one as soon as possible. Learning specific technologies is as useful as trying to transport water with your hands: After a short moment all this knowledge is gone, i.e. has been superseded.

  • momost

    What does using WP7 Have to do with being American? I’m a US citizen, with,a N900. Owned an e71 and n97. Windows phone 7 is smart and intuitive.Im still looking forward to the N8…cunt.