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WP Apollo Superphones – WP leaked Roadmap? But Q4 2012??

| December 28, 2011 | 110 Replies

 

With Nokia’s future closely tied with WP, tidbits of news like this suggest what’s coming in future Nokia WP products.

This is apparently a leaked roadmap for Windows phone, coming by way of WMPoweruser 

Just to remind us of the last rumours:

  • Nokia’s Tango phones are being announced at CES and MWC.
  • Nokia’s Apollo phones are appearing at Nokia Connection in June.
  • Nokia Windows 8 tablets in June

The dates give Q2 2012 for Tango availability. That’s April-May-June. Earliest possibly being April despite rumoured January/February launches? Tango/cheaper WP handsets is when Nokia can push volume WPs.

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As for Apollo that ‘s frighteningly not June. It says Q4 2012. That’s October-November-December. (Note, mango became available actually Q3 2010).

Whilst I’m looking forward to cheaper, better priced Windows Phones and more so Competitive Superphones and Business phones, it’s somewhat sooooo far away. What would Android have released by then? What about the new iPhone (due Fall apparently, and it will look different says rumours, aka, same front, now with curved back again and white version 8 months later).

Whilst I say it’s far away, I’d rather it be delivered than never. I remember thinking back in 2008 that Nokia’s new OS coming 2010 was too far away. LOL. Poor, poor Maemo. Don’t let me flare up again about the lost opportunity there.

Also having said that, Nokia can still possibly make up ground by beefing up Mango and then Tango handsets with bold Nokia hardware. No compromises for 2012 please Nokia. No compromises, no excuses, no delays.

 

Source: WMPoweruser

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Category: Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Chris

    Tiles UI suck.

    • genius

      Dick head

    • erzhik

      so does your mom. BAM!

    • karam

      +1

    • Adam Jensen

      +10

    • EmmanuelM

      +1 I can’t even stand it

    • Mark

      Wow. Thank you for your constructive input!

      • troll

        it was totally enlightening. it made me see things in a whole new way.

        • Uit

          Tiles UI fails to grab the general public attention…
          Its not immediately pleasing, and so far as managed to lose market share and users for the windows mobile platform….

          There!!! can you now see something????I guess you will keep making justice to your name right?

          • Mark

            Question – is it actually the tiles that have lost WinMo market share or the fact that WinMo – pre WP7.5 – was so unappealing that it would have lost share anyway and MS would have had even less share than they do now if they hadn’t changed?

            Correlation does not imply causation.

  • viipottaja

    Well, it could obviously be
    1) fake
    2) old (clearly is as tango was out earlier) and possibly outdated
    3) accurate regarding tango and apollo – we’ll likely know soon re tango

  • Uit

    Giiii It has been known and reported here months ago that apolo would only be ready in late 2012….
    This is one of the arguments for the fail strategy thing…nokia will only be able to deploy dual core decent screen deff phones in 2013. Something it could do tomorrow with meego if it had the hardware…
    Worse part that (dual core HD phones) would only be patting catch up with what the big guys are doing right now…..in 2103 this specs will be another low end over priced phone like the Lumia 800…..
    Good luck Nokia cannibalising the low end low profit symbian phones, wile paying royalties to Microsoft…..

    • Jay Montano

      Great points.

      Genuine question:

      If MeeGo could go dual core tomorrow, why wasn’t it dual core already? It was expected to be as far as rumours were concerned and that was early 2011.

      I heard that on Symbian (just supposed rumours from certain people in the know) that they tried to get Symbian to go dual core but could not get it ready yet. It wasn’t actually Nokia skimping on hardware like they did with N97, it was apparently an actual issue.

      Though neither N9 nor Lumia need dual core except for bragging rights, it is necessary nowadays to have it specifically for that.

      We need nokia to:

      1) make phones with bigger screens
      2) make phones with dual core and quadcore
      3) make that with the N8 successor’s camera
      4) make 1-3 in the next 12 months.

      That’s not a phone for everyone, it’s just one to make a Nokia flagship. Whilst user experience might be there already with just single core, on paper it does look like Nokia needs catching up. And they’ll fall to silly little reviews that are based on nothing but words and not actually using the phone and then when they get a backlash for reviewfail, the angry crazy writer publishes their IP addresses. lol.

      • Bloob

        It’s not just silly reviews/reviewers. Most (even young) people are tech-stupid, and they are happy that way. This means that there’re pretty much only 2 ways to get them to buy your product:

        1) big numbers, basically specs, doesn’t even matter if those specs are utilized

        2) hearsay, aka reputation, this one takes time and money, and requires hardware and software experience that goes above expectations. This is actually the strategy that Nokia seems to be going with, with their “getting the customer to try it”-approach.

        Combining the 2 should be best, and is something Samsung is trying to do, and kinda did with SGS, SGS2 and SGN. SGS3 will sell even better thanks to the reputation earned by these phones (unless there’s something major wrong with it).

      • Uit

        “If MeeGo could go dual core tomorrow, why wasn’t it dual core already? It was expected to be as far as rumours were concerned and that was early 2011.”

        In one word…. Profit…. the CPU in the N9 is the cheapest Nokia could get without being totally embarrassing. and still providing a more than fluid experience.

        The meego kernel (its for 99.99% the same linux kernel we get on andrid, the defacto kernel for ARM) as no problem dealing with dual core, same as the X server as no problem dealing with higher screen definitions.

        Problem for Nokia is that this type of decisions are now in Microsoft hands, bigger problem is that in this department Microsoft for some known reason seams more interested in Qualcom’s profits than nokia interest’s

        • Viipottaja

          Err… MS decided which processor to use in the N9? Ok…

          • Uit

            Were do I Say that???? really were??? If you cant be bothered to read don’t bother to answer, cmon….
            What I said is that its not the software that prevented NOKIA from shipping an N9 with a 2 Ghz quad core.
            Then I speculate on the reasons for the actual CPU chosen, witch are IMO sound, NoKIA chose the CPU that provided the most profit, on a platform NOKIA had developed over the last years, maximizing the scale economies.

            • Hypnopottamus

              It can be inferred from what you said here:

              “Problem for Nokia is that this type of decisions are now in Microsoft hands, bigger problem is that in this department Microsoft for some known reason seams more interested in Qualcom’s profits than nokia interest’s”

              • Uit

                Obviously in regards to devices with WP, not the N9 that uses a software that 99,9% of the mobile arm based hardware out there…

                • Uit

                  supports 99%

            • Viipottaja

              Apologies, misunderstood you.

              AFAIK, MS sets minimum requirements for WP phones, manufacturers are free to choose more powerful set ups if they feel like it. So I guess Nokia can use any chipset they want as long as it meets the minimum system requirements.

              • Uit

                Guys you should know this things if you are going to have an opinion on this matters…

                OK so far WP only suports CPU’s from Qualcomm, and not even any cpu but it has to be single core, it also does not support a great variety of other hardware, and hardware specks such a any screen definition different from 800×480.
                tango will allow for less definition than 800×480 pixels for cheaper phones.

                But it is said only appolo will bring suport for better cpus and other manufactures as well as higher screen def’s. So hardware wise the LUMIA 800 is the best thing NOKIA could do with WP. and we have to whay till 2013 for something better.

                • Viipottaja

                  Correct, had forgotten about the no dual core support. Well, in any event, as you said , Nokia and other EOMs can choose their performance within certain limits. I suppose that’s the case in most OSs, i.e. you cannot just throw every and all hardware at it and have it work without problems, right?

                  Also, I thought I saw speculations about Nokia ordering chipsets from ST and not only Qualcomm, or do I recall correctly?

          • jiipee

            It will be interesting read in 5-10 years time, why 11.11.11 was so sad day for Vanjoki – a Harmattan phone with better specs?

            Viipottaja: what is you opinion, what is agreed between Nokia and MS for high end phones? My bet is that to get MS money and support Nokia has agreed not to compete against WP in higher price points (prosessor & screen).

            Meltemi, I guess, will come with similar specs to N9 – 1 Qhz and same level graphics prosessor, maybe less memory and smaller screens.

            • Viipottaja

              My guess is there is no agrement to not use other OSs or to not compete at any given price point. Rather, it is likely to be the reverse: Nokia has committed to use WP for a given number of years. There may be some, although I would find it also somewhat unlikely, commitment to use it in various price points, form factors, a certain number of models and markets etc.

              I have negotiated many commercial contracts and have not ever seen one party (in particular one that is in a pretty strong negotiation position like Nokia in my opinion was)agree to limit its options that way (other than in the limited scope of put or call options).

  • Sun Down

    Jay, it’s better to deliver a polished product than a Vista. You may be late to the party, but at least you’re late with style.

    • Jay Montano

      Yes. When you come late, you have to come out with something redefining and something that changes the game a little and have the force to keep the momentum up.

      Like how webOS could have changed the game except Palm had no resources and HP was an idiot.

      For Nokia’s sake, I hope MS bring some seriously leap frogging features to Apollo, perhaps something that completes the whole WP experience much more. Maybe be a little more flexible on the homescreen as that seems to be what irks a lot of people. Certain features, BT file sending, and things we’ve come to get used to in Symbian kinda need to be there. TV-out/HDMI out perhaps? USB mass transfer maybe? message tones? kinda simple basic stuff. Though yes, I don’t want a rush.

      Oh I want something along the lines of quick pull down notifications (give me quick access to settings) and maybe make the tiles even more dynamic but equally somehow making them eat less battery.

      • Sun Down

        I find the battery bar in Mango to be off style. It just doesn’t fit in with the dynamic tiles you know? I think it’s better if there’s a dynamic wallpaper instead; green > blue > red. Of course, I hope the wallpaper itself doesn’t affect the battery life.

      • DesR85

        “…USB mass transfer maybe… Though yes, I don’t want a rush.”

        This is one of my concerns for Windows Phone. I don’t mind getting the Lumia 800 if it means that I can’t do USB transfers without Zune, but it would be great if Microsoft or Nokia provide some ‘limited’ USB transfer mode where you can transfer out stuff like music, videos, pictures, etc. but leave the transfer of data into the phone via Zune. Isn’t much but at least it’s better than nothing.

        I ever come across this link which explains why it is not recommended to use USB Mass Storage for Windows Phone:
        http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010/11/19/do-not-use-windows-phone-7-as-a-mass-storage-device/

  • dss

    Nokia (elop) said that they’ve looked at Microsoft’s road map, and it looked better then their own MeeGo/Symbian one. So.. I think we should trust them fully and not question the decision at all.

    • Jay Montano

      Good sarcasm.

      I think it’s fair to question and discuss though there’s not much we can do about it even if it stacks up one way or the other. They’ll be going full force on WP next year what ever happens.

      We did hear in articles published earlier in the year that there were supposed issues about bringing MeeGo out quickly enough and the rate at which Symbian could be modified. Looking at how long it took to turn Symbian to touch and how insignificant that change was from S^1 to S^3 anna, it kinda seems believable (and though Belle is awesome, it’s still not really where it kinda has to be on the usability/UI front).

      We’re going to be recycling the same conversations though that we’ve had since February though if we start to look back all over again on what should have/could have happened. There’s been quite a lot of that recently so I’ll take a break on that for a bit.

      • dss

        You are right Jay, we won’t know anything until next fall, or even maybe 2013. No one can predict now, but I am really eager to see how it all plays out. I just hope we don’t end up with Microsoft buying Nokia’s smartphone division..they don’t need to now, but they have the cash for sure..and if the price “becomes” right.

      • jiipee

        I dont think continuing with Harmmattan would have been a valid option. Technologically and commercially they might have been able to sustain reasonable market share in mid-term and huge boost to app store through Qt compliant Meltemi.

        One wonders Elop’s BS about having max. 4 phones in 4 years with Harmattan. The comments on radio technologu problems may have been more valid since N9 still has suffered from some based on the Bugzilla. The third Exodus after February may not have helped the situation ;)

        However, WP would have been a complete failure without Nokia’s support. And that would have led MS to buyout Nokia.

        What looks bad in my eyes is the estimated arrival of Apollo Q4 and the mentioning of business there. That would mean a huge gap between E6 and the first WP business phones (well I dont know the content of the word business there, admit it). What I’ve understood, is that WP should be good for business use. Does anyone know how they look in the eyes of corporate IT professionals?

        • jiipee

          I forgot to mention: One of the big things in MS Ecosystem are their corporate systems: ERP and CRM (especially the latter).

          I’ve been wondering the talk that Nokia has still kept going on is consentrating on the “price points”. They should understand that there should be also application specific mobile products:

          – Nokia Cyclo: for hard core cyclists. A further collaboration with Sports tracker and one of the Finnish heart rate monitor companies (Suunto or Polar) to add more cycling related sensors.
          – Super sales/service man phone: Full blown Microsoft Dynamics CRM on phone. Track your appointments, update customer information, share leads, time your work at the customer directly for billing… This would need Qwerty (Google is in cooperation with Salesforce.com, the biggest rival)
          – Logistics work horse: track RFIDs/NFC tags for incoming, sent parcels, sync to ERP/SQL server, take pictures of damaged parcels and share them…
          etc etc.

          Xbox environment and the MS enterprise systems are the best stuff in MS ecosystem for Nokia to exploit.

          Actual superphones should come not with WP, but actual Windows. You could carry that instead of lap top, have separate keyboard and carry on screen, where you attach your phone.

  • Heron

    Superphones: Where your phone is as big as a Galaxy Note, and there’s a docking device that connects to a display, speaker, keyboard and mouse which converts it into a W8 platform.

    • Jay Montano

      That would be an interesting device. Is that even going to be possible?

      MS were very coy when they talked about W8 earlier this year on what devices. They specifically mentioned everything except phone, even though it seems that’s where it would also make sense – to immediately take users to Windows powered phones and tablets from desktops. Though that risk could backfire if they mess up W8.

      • dss

        I think we are still some ways off from them completely merging the Windows NT core with Windows CE.. but they are closer to it than Apple is for sure

      • Heron

        I think we are close to it. After all, a smartphone is getting closer to netbook/laptop computing power, and for most users that is going to be enough.

        The thing is what the interface is going to be able to do video, audio, keyboard and mouse and act as a charging device at the same time.

  • http://www.gadgeterija.net Denis Jelec

    Tom Warren among those more familiar faces, noted in a tweet that this roadmap is fairly old (August?). Why “old” – because rumours of possible earlier Apollo (summer 2012) came to life only during November (if I recall correctly).

    So, there’s still hope.

    • Michael

      I actually wrote to Microsoft and asked about Apollo. Wrote forth and back with one guy, and he confirmed summer release/ready Apollo.

      Hope so!

      • Viipottaja

        Hmm.. really? Doubt that anyone can confirm it at this point, let alone in an email to (what I assume to be) just a regular consumre like you. No offence of course, just sounds strange for a radom (?) MS employee to say something like that.

        • Just Visiting

          @ Viipottaja…There were rumors (I think it was either someone at Nokia that said Apollo would be ready Summer 2012) about Apollo being available earlier than what this roadmap reflects. Perhaps it will be the Apollo ‘beta’ that will be ready in Summer 2012; Mango beta was released in Summer 2011, so hopefully, at a minimum, Apollo beta will be released to develops Summer 2012 (or sooner) :)

  • Carbonix

    Oh man, typical of Microsoft to fragment the OS to make even more money, just like the bazillion editions of Windows and their crazy feature sets.

    Tango and Apollo will be their own separate forks with different hardware requirements which developers will have to deal with. Both will be current, not legacy versions. How can fragmentation be good for the OS and Elop’s favorite ecosystem?

    I still think Elop is a smart cookie. His talk of future “disruptions” in the mobile space could come from Nokia’s existing software or even something new, provided its phones WP7 don’t fire up the market. S40, Meltemi, Symbian and Meego will still be here.

    • karam

      well technically, they are updates. and the so called “fragmentation”‘ is not very bad thing, with that you can accommodate different needs, markets, price points etc…

      the pre-elop nokia had fragmentation itself (many OSs, many devices) but that was serving nokia well enough to grow and make profits. WP with its updates/fragmentation is not the bad thing, it just does not serve a smartphone division in the size of nokia’s (or what used to be in Q4 2010), that is the strategy is dumb.

    • Jay Montano

      What is the fragmentation you see here?

      The edition is not like Windows Home, Enterprise, Ultimate. It’s an upgraded OS where Tango will have more features (minor update like NoDo, but will allow more variety), and Apollo will subsequently have more features.

      The aim of Windows Phone is to have their user base upgrading to Tango and then possibly Apollo. Anything after that is great but not necessary given possible hardware constraints. Regardless, most apps should still work unless it demands certain hardware.

      Screen resolution is something that might irk developers. Look how such a change from nHD to VGA renders E6 crippled with apps, always waiting for versions to work on it. I think MS has said they will keep 800X480 for Tango They said they will make it cheaper but will NOT compromise on the user experience. Stuff that might get cut out is camera, compass, GPS perhaps. Things that nokia has shown phones can do without.

      Talking about fragmented OS, one we don’t talk about is Symbian. Apps for S60 1st? S60 3rd? S60 5th? Symbian^3? Symbian^3 with VGA? Symbian Anna? Symbian Belle?

      They are all Symbian but apps created on one does not necessarily work on another. That is some serious fragmentation. I’m not that familiar with what it’s like now on iOS and apps for 4/4S vs 3G/2G. I guess they just expect most to be on iOS 4 and above.

      • Carbonix

        Symbian, pre-Symbian^3, is the best example of how totally screwed up Nokia was :) The way Apple handled iOS support for several generations of devices made Nokia look like fools.

        Using the desktop Windows analogy, Tango will be the Home edition while Apollo is the Enterprise flavour. There will be phones with Tango and Apollo at the same time but can Tango phones upgrade to Apollo, given the hardware and performance differentiation? Same thing with Android phones on Gingerbread – not all will get ICS. Both OSes will be current on currently selling hardware but it’s a dead end for some devices and not for others.

        S^3 has fared better than previous Symbian versions thanks to the use of Qt and a common hardware platform. There are still teething problems from fully migrating to Qt and yes, devices like the E6 aren’t handled well at all, but Belle is expected to come to all current devices. Hopefully Symbian C and D will follow the same pattern too.

        I wish all these manufacturers would stop treating smartphones are mere disposables with a 2-year lifespan. Now, if you don’t like the OS you’re stuck with, you have to get a new phone.

        • DesR85

          “I wish all these manufacturers would stop treating smartphones are mere disposables with a 2-year lifespan. Now, if you don’t like the OS you’re stuck with, you have to get a new phone.”

          And it just shows how important it is to do your research before buying something, be it handphones, video games, computers, etc.

          Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t do this and just go for what’s fashionable or let the sales rep. sway them to buy a certain product only to regret it much later after buying it. Human nature if you ask me.

  • Xpress0705

    A simple question…

    Nokia has gone all-in with Window Phone and put all the eggs in the same basket. Its logical that they are going to pump out WP devices for different price points in 2012 with Tango & Apollo.

    What will happen IF despite all their marketing efforts/stunts, WP phones does not gain the critical mass/volume for it to be successful & people are not attracted to it??

    WHAT WILL NOKIA DO THEN???…..

    • karam

      well for one thing, WP is not enough to sustain a company in the size of nokia, even if the strategy is successful (which is failing miserably until now by looking at the awful transition), that is why nokia has to become smaller, something Elop is executing very well. and the three pillars thing does not accommodate entire nokia.

      if the strategy fails,…..I do not know, I do not think nokia will make tires and shoes again, but whether it succeeds or fails, it is a win for microsoft. I really hope the government will interfere at some point, because I want my old nokia back :(

      • dss

        smaller would also make it easier to acquire..

      • Viipottaja

        The Government? What, you want them to socialize Nokia or something?

        And if Nokia fails, how is it a win for MS?

        • Uit

          “And if Nokia fails, how is it a win for MS?”

          Probably it will by the best patent portfolio in the mobile world realy cheep, plus historicaly Nokia killed the former windows mobiles platforms, so it will still be a sour win for microsoft.

          • Viipottaja

            Yeah, MS is indeed a teenager holding a grudge.. :D

            • Uit

              sure acts like one, ever seen Steve Ballmer going crazy video? “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc”

    • yasu

      Elop assured that plan B is making sure that plan A works. There’s no need to worry.

      • Jay Montano

        There is always a plan B, it’s just not something he would say after such a major upheaval and strategy change.

        • nn

          And how that mythical plan B should possibly look like? Mr. Elop isn’t just saying there is only plan A, he is actively taking steps, even at the cost of not only long term but also short term damage, to assure MS is only possible way, so even if somebody wanted to change the course he won’t be able to do that because of constraints imposed by Elop. The killing of Symbian and its transfer to Accenture, then MeeGo, the whole MS deal legally binding Nokia to sell WP, all the little transfers to and bindings with MS, the corporate takeover by MS executives, etc.

          In less than year there really won’t be any option other than selling to MS or declaring bankruptcy.

          • Uit

            +++++++ yes NOKIA is only going one way now, every poor sales number pushes NOKIA more and more to that point….I’m not even sure Nokia will survive One year to try the Apolo thing in the market.

            The time now is to judge what divisions of Nokia will be alienated first??? smart-phones? Qt? Dumb-phones? Network? Patents? or all sold together so that Microsoft can kill the ones that are dangerous to its interest???

    • Heron

      Well, there are many what if scenarios. But publicly declaring plan B now is to tell the world that even Nokia has no faith in plan A, which is WP7.

      Nokia didn’t cut off Symbian like how HP, god bless their souls, cut off WebOS. MeeGo has support too, which means Nokia has got different backup plans. But they aren’t openly saying those are their contingency. Throwing their lot in MS and presenting the united front is what is necessary for WP7 to even attempt that go at critical mass.

      • Viipottaja

        +1

        • Uit

          “Nokia didn’t cut off Symbian like how HP” what? 90% of the former symbian developers are now working for Acenture and all symbian development is commissioned by NOKIA, Symbian is outsourced this days..

          • Viipottaja

            You don’t see the difference between stopping new devices and open sourcing the code in the hopes someone will bother, and continuing to annouce new devices, havig two new feature updates to the OS in the works, and having a contract for continued development and support of the OS and devices through 2016? Ok.

            • Uit

              Viipottaja you seam like a really nice guy, but you should get you fact straight,

              “Apr 6, 2011…..Nokia has confirmed that it has closed the source code for the Symbian smartphone operating system. I…..”

              Symbian is dead as dead can be. Belle and so on is just previously commissioned work.

              • Viipottaja

                Well, afaik, two feature updates are in the works and new devices have been and will be announced and support will continue through 2016. See the difference to HP and WebOS? :)

                And thanks for the compliment! :)

                • Jiipee

                  I tend to agree with Uit. You seem like a nice guy and well informed. However I’d still expect some critical thinking especially based on you mentioning earlier that you have actually been working on a business setting. What is stated in the official communication and strategy does not mean that it is the reality. Also success in implementing a strategy and strategy success are two different things.

                  (Too late) communicated support for Symbian until 2016 does not translate to Symbian not being obsolete. Try answering the following questions:
                  1. Are Symbian phones sold in US? How would one interpret this facgt?
                  2. If one would make a survey among sales reps in stores selling handsets, what comment would one get?
                  3. If you browse through all the post-February reviews of Symbian phones, what kind of information would you get of the
                  4. Comparing stock levels (not at Nokia) from January, March and July, what results would you get?
                  5. How has Symbian been present in official Nokia communication channels (eg. Nokia world, conversations in comparison to last year). What kind of signal does it send?
                  6. If you’d review the competences among Symbian developers a) who left after Feb, b) were transferred to WP c) were transferred to Accenture, how do you think the best minds are spread among these three?

                  Those are only to start with ;)

                  • viipottaja

                    :) so you don’t see any difference between the Nokia&Symbian situation and the HP&WebOS situation either?

                    as I’ve said a million times communication mistakes were made. Symbian is on its way out. that does not mean they have cut it off the same way as HP did wirh Webos. new symbian devices are coming out, millions are still being sold every quarter (downward trajectory will of course contiune), app & feature updates are still in the works, support through 2016. that is onbvious contrast, to me, tp what the webos situation.

                    my +1 above related to not only that but supporting the OPs notion that in the time of a major strategy change you don’t discuss your contingency plans and you do put a united front behind the selected strategy.

                    it is too earky to tell whether the strategy is working. as i have said, again, numeroud times, i would think only after q2 12 _some_ _early_ conclusions may be possible to draw.

                    :)

                    • jiipee

                      I see the difference. However, HP did not have plan to use HTML to switch over to another platform (Maemo), which would have been supported by another low end platform (S40/Meltemi).
                      Microsoft was even more drastic by the way. Compeltely killed WinMo and kept only the core. I hope they dont do the same again ;)

                      Agree ont the first hints of success in Q22012 and Lumia 900. Latest after Win8 has been out for more than 6 months.

      • nn

        “But publicly declaring plan B now is to tell the world that even Nokia has no faith in plan A, which is WP7.”

        And so what? It’s not like Nokia is MS division and they must take the precious WP7 with utmost care, right? Especially when there are more available OSes than WP7.

    • Uit

      Go bankrupt. Its by far the most silly management in history, if they wanted to be an OEM they could have at least gone the OEM way like Smasung and have eags in several baskets.

  • JD!

    Looks like Nokia has taken the “World is going to end in 2012″ seriously.

    Hence they are in bed with MS which will let Nokia achieve their dream of ending the company in 2012 itself… lol

    • Mark

      Why do you guys even bother posting here? Your posts just reek of hatred and bitterness.

      Get over yourself. MeeGo is a failure – too little, too late. Symbian was great but is past it. WP represents the best opportunity for Nokia to progress.

      Grow up or go away. Your choice.

      • Uit

        Nooo if nokia wanted to secure a future as a OEM android would be exactly 2350% better, not kiling its own technologies would make it well the numbers would be embarrassing, placing all your egg’s in a vastly slow and underperformed platform only fueled by Microsoft deep pockets, is the failure.

        “too little, too late” fits perfectly with WP platform, too little users, way to late apolo…

        • Mark

          Yes. It makes perfect sense to adopt, say, Android which is, of course, already vastly oversubscribed.

          Or they could stay with Symbian… which has seen its European marketshare drop to virtually nothing.

          Or they could go with MeeGo… where they’ve only managed one device in over two years.

          So, point is, there is no point in exploring other platforms as immediate concerns – Symbian is dead, MeeGo is a grid based UI that is inferior to iOS and has no developer support. That leaves Android and Samsung and HTC have that nailed down so WP it is.

          Me? I like WP7.5. You should maybe use it. You might be surprised.

          • Uit

            See, “Samsung and HTC have that nailed down”, and by that I mean WP, if nokia can make a difference were they could not, (remains to be demonstrated), how could it not do the same thing in android?
            If the point is that only using an Obscure unused OS can NOKIA succeed, then I see no point on ditching Meego or refurbishing it to the S40 as its the plan apparently, at least it wasn’t a massive consumer failure like the WP that as so far been losing users for Microsoft in the mobile area.
            At least with Meego NOKIA could have a real flagship now… with Wp it might have something like that in 2013, ofcourse by then it will be as lame as LUMIA 800 is now.

            NOKIA as ZERO control or monitoring abilities over the Kernel in WP, so its 100% dependent on what Microsoft decides it will support, in 12 months.

            MIcrosoft’s hardware model worked great for them in the traditional desktop were to be able to be sold it had to work well in the windows kernel, Now in the ARM world the WP kernel is marginally used, and the defacto kernel is open to manufactures develop even before the chip is out for sale, (good place to find out what new hardware is coming is the Linux Kernel commits).

          • jiipee

            Android is overly competed platform. What must have been one choise is (Im not a developer): rapid port of Qt to Android and growing App ecosystem that way.
            Benefits:
            – At least on short term a rapidly developing platform
            – One in-house development platform for all OSes, Qt (Symbian(slow phase out), Maemo, S40(slow phase out, Meltemi)
            – sharing Nokia specific apps to huge installed base in comparison to WP
            – Possibility to draw back from Android and keeping investments in app ecosystem
            – Common Nokia UI paradigm throughout whole product range
            – Economies of scale through more freedom to source components
            – Possibilities to keep invetions in own products, introducing them on own platform

            I may have too optimistiv view on Qt capabilities, I admit since Im not a developer.

            WP without Nokia – utterly dead OS. That Meego and one phone argument is unintelligent. There are already two (N9 and N950) Nokia could have boosted development in (and I bet that they already had plans and processes on the way) February as much as they boosted WP, kept their developers, had N9 ready before Summer, PR 1.2 would be out, more phones (1-2) late 2011. The hardware adaptation was no problem according to Nokia sources (eventhough Elop claimed so)

            WP 7.5 looks good and I might think about purchasing one in the future. It still does not mean that Nokia made the best choise.

  • EmmanuelM

    Ok so nothing new until next fall.. Very very late then… At That Time competition Will be galaxy s3 And iPhone 5.. Good luck.

  • MyNokiaLife

    Thats kind of an old press release,maybe summer of 11. Never show your cards at poker and business.

  • Odin

    I don’t see that nokia has all the eggs in one basket. Elop has said that Nokia will stick with WP strategy even though MeeGo would be a success, but he never said that the MeeGo (Maemo Harmattan) development would be quit. Insted he has said that he tries to keep all the best MeeGo talent in Nokia and remove the ‘hand cuffs’ of the R&D.
    Two of the Nokia’s three strategy ‘pillars’ stand on Maemo ‘development work, i.e. the ‘next billion’ and the future distruptions’. For the next billion, Nokia has informed that they will replace the S40-OS in the feature phones with Linux based Meltemi. Meltemi will obviously be continuation for Maemo project. Even the name Meltemi means wind similarly like Fremantle (Fremantle doctor, Maemo5)and Harmattan(Maemo6)are names for winds. For Nokia it is much cheaper and quicker to utilize ready and proven Maemo Harmattan (MeeGo) code than start from the scratch. N9 uses the same ARM 1GHz processor than e.g. the new Asha S40 phones, and could probably run on those devices with a slight effort. What I think is that Nokia is building up the Maemo+QT ecosystem up from feature phones where Nokia is still the market leader.
    What about Symbian^3? The name has a burden and Nokia said that they will ditch it. From now on there are only the version names in use; Anna, Bella, Carla and Donna. Elop has confirmed the only logical conclusion, Nokia will use ‘Symbian’ as long as it will make profit for Nokia, or in the words; as long as consumers will buy significant quantity of these phones.
    With Windows Phone strategy that will make up three operating systems altogeher.
    It is logical that for now Nokia emphasizes WP phones publicly. Without full support the WP strategy would surely fail.
    I hope that Nokia will succeed with the Lumia phones, wil get money for the development of their own OS’es and release something like N9 in the future when the Maemo ecosystem has matured.

    • Uit

      Problem is that apparently NOKIA contract with Microsoft states that the S40 will remain Dumb-phones under 100$ price range…
      Plus the vast majority of the meego people already left NOKIA, specially the most talented people.
      On the Bright side Nokia has been heiring a lot of “left overs” from Microsoft staff.

      • Odin

        Is that a rumor or a fact? Why would Nokia announce that they will replace S40 with Meltemi if it’s not possible?

        True that in the time of change like this, disapointed people will look for other choises, and that the most talented ones will find an other job easily.
        Nokia tried to prevent this from happening by offering extra salary for those who will stay in the company at least until N9 reaches the shops. Now, there is already an update available for N9, which is a prove that the development work has not stopped.
        I have seen that Nokia is now looking for more developers to Oulu (in Northern Finland)to delvelop the new Linux based operating system for phones (i.e. Meltemi).
        I don’t know how many of the MeeGo people have actually left from Nokia so far. And, I don’t know how much Maemo Harmattan (MeeGo) must be changed in order that it will run on cheaper phones considering that it already runs on the same ‘cheap’ processor.

        • jiipee

          My bet is that Uit has something more than rumours there. And the most expensive S40 phones do not cost much more than 100 bucks.

          A lot of the talented people left already in February although some of the competences migh have not fitted N9 development since it was more Qt. It’s a joke that now they are trying to hire back people who have already left. It sounds that the PR 1.2 will be the last major update to N9.

          • Viipottaja

            My bet is that he has nothing but rumors. In fact, I would be astonished if Nokia would have negotiated itself to a corner like that. They are not amateurs in contract negotiation.

            • Uit

              Yes makes you wonder does it not???

              • Viipottaja

                What does? You’ve see the contract?

            • Cocco Bill

              “They are not amateurs in contract negotiation.”

              Now that was really funny. :D I didn’t know you had a comedian in you.

              • Viipottaja

                You welcome. I gather that’s how they have negotiated all the supplier, carrier, retailer etc etc etc etc etc contracts over the year, you know, by sending the summer intern to do it.

                • jiipee

                  They didnt. They just sent the former MS emplyees to represent them

        • Odin

          The other side of the story was that Nokia apparently had three times higher development costs than the worst competitors.
          The reason has been partly claimed to be unfair compensation systems and incompetent middlemanagement or so called powerpoint layer which stopped all the good ideas in ‘wheels of bureacracy’.

          By outsourcing Symbian and choosing WP, Nokia could quickly, by the end this year,drop the fixed costs to more sustainable level and make the organizational change in a controlled manner.

          Maemo/MeeGo was originally ment to be a open source project, where the development costs would have been shared among the participants. Unfortunately, other phone manufacturers did not join the project possibly because Nokia was tought to hold the project too much for itself.

          It has been speculated that the Nokia’s divorce from Intel and MeeGo collaboration was made to lure the other manufacturers behind Maemo origin open source development work. Now, we know that the MeeGo continues as Tizen. It is thus possible that Nokia could join the Tizen community later.

          I hope that the organizational change will make Nokia more agile, and ‘less will prove to be more’ when it comes to R&D and Maemo development in Nokia.

          • jiipee

            Eventhough Tomi Ahonen has lost his mind, some of his figures make sense. In short term the loss from the major communication mistake Elop made regards Symbian cost way lot more than Symbians developers do. And they still need to pay for Accidenture in any case.

            Maemo core is one thing, Swipe is another. There could have been excess personnel in Linux development. What I’ve heard of Swipe UI, the size of the team behing it and the change is development paradigm is not at all at the same level as Symbian has taken.

            I still wonder, if they could not get other partners as Amazon, Japanese manufacturers (who used Symbian), Yahoo (who are losing their battle and Nokia could have had their share of search related income), Nintendo who have a limited ecosystem… Meego was a major mistake.

            The management style and structure was the true problem. That is something Elop is still talking about and it is not directly connected to Symbian and Maemo actual development. The management just made them to use resources inefficiently.

            They still need to pay for WP – some estimates say 10usd a phone. If they will sell 10 mio handsets a year that would mean 100 mio variable cost on top of their own WP development costs. With 100 mio you already do quite a lot or development. Also a lot of the R&D expences are related to NSN, not smartphones. Of course they get some funding for marketing etc. No one knows how much.

            I dont see Nokia going for Titsen, since their Meego efforts seem to have been just Maemo compatibility in the first place. Also Tizen is said to not support Qt, which would be a precondition for Nokia.

            Linux at Nokia will be smart feature phones – not superhones. I dont say, I wouldnt be happy with one, if I can sync with Gdocs, may use any computer OS with it, can link it to any tv set/ home entertainment system and can call with it and choose not to use Facebook or Skype if I dont want to. Nokia’s smartphones will be more and more linked to MS environment, which can have both positive and negative effects.

            • Odin

              I agree that the QT is the major strategic factor for Nokia.

              How hard is it build QT compatibility to Tizen?

              At least Nomovok announced immediately after the news about Tizen that they will provide QT compatibility with Tizen.

              • Uit

                Tizen people are not one bit interested in Qt, not because its bad but because see it as under Nokias Control.

                PLus they seam more interested in linking their super fast EFL libraries with html5 style of code…

            • Odin

              Elop’s statement of the burning platform was essentially true even if the message was badly delivered and received.

              Nearly all other mobile phone manufacturers had discarded Symbian earlier and the ecosystem had started to deteriorate. Elop saw a trend in this to worsen. It is believable that the Symbian market share would have continued to shrink regardless of what Elop said. On the other hand, MeeGo ecosystem was not mature enough to capture Symbian’s loss. For smartphones Nokia needed something else and a strong partner first of all. Microsoft is doubtless a strong partner in many ways. It would have been a pleasure though to see Nokia partnership with Yahoo, Nintendo and Amazon, and I wonder why Nokia could not make it happen. Microsoft brings bing, xbox, office, development tools and more.

              About the Maemo based superphone, I do not agree. It won’t come soon for sure, but the whole idea about the “future distruption” is to bring a superphone to market and quoting Elop: “find that next big thing that blows away Apple, Android, and everything we’re doing with Microsoft right now and makes it irrelevant—all of it.”

              • viipottaja

                WP is also an integral part of 3 Hor even four: phones, PCs, tablets, TV/living room) screen ecosystem. IMO very important. and not very strong in either symbian or meego (in particular the close to zero progress intel made on the tablet and laptop versions)

                • Cocco Bill

                  How many WP7 PC’s, tablets and TV/living room things are there now? And where can one buy them?

                  “WP7 – From 2% to 1% = Strong!”
                  -Bizarro World News

                  • Jay Montano

                    So you don’t see how WP7 slots in with W7 pcss W8 PCs? W8 tablets? Xbox?

                    Oh yeah you’re right. It’s much stronger ecosystem with my Symbian gaming console, my Symbian laptop, my Symbian tablet. How could I have forgotten about that, Cocco? My apologies.

                    • ftw

                      ooo and we thought NOKIA was in the phone buisness…

                    • jiipee

                      Good comment in the sense that maybe Android/bada are the only ones truly connected to tv’s etc. Sony can be strong with Android, Tvs, Playstation etc. Samsung is missing the gaming consoles currently (Nintendo could be prucahsed?). Both have laptops running Win.

                      Come on Jay: that Symbian was a cheap shot, you have to admit. I dont think WP will be on XBox or laptops?

                      Qt is on tv:s for example: http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/03/23/qt-cross-platform-now-means-%E2%80%9Con-tv%E2%80%9D-as-well/
                      A friend of mine has been working on Qt adaptation to a bigger tv manufacturer also.

          • Uit

            Yes things were not well in NOKIA land, symbian development was a mess and extremely expensive, apparently the merge with Intel was a mistake, the meego we see in the N9 is mostly maemo 6 with API comparability.

            Duno what “meltemi?” is based on, some say is a simplified maemo 6 some say its something new, duno if we are going to see any of it

            • Jiipee

              I’d expect news before 2H2012 unless they’ve shifted all the best managerial talent from Symbian to it ;)

              • Uit

                hehehheehe, good one ;)

          • Cocco Bill

            “and ‘less will prove to be more’ when it comes to R&D and Maemo development in Nokia.”

            Less is hardly ever more when it comes to R&D. Proper R&D takes resources.

            • Jiipee

              Depends a lot on the nature of R&D. Too many people working on software development means mess.

  • Nagol

    I heard the apollo WP7 phones are gonna be the touch and type phones. If so that will be exciting!!

  • Doffen

    MS and Nokia sure are fast! Then again it is easy when MS can concentrate on the software and Nokia can concentrate on the hardware,

    • Uit

      Fast, like really really fast, just yesterday I saw them overtake a snail on the road, (the snail was having a drink in the bar so he might catch up soonish) ;)

  • duffyx

    It is with incredible sadness that I watch Nokia slowly self destruct. Nokia needs to put up a strong flagship phone now NOT in 12 months time. Look like Microsoft handling the software side is dragging Nokia back with its glacial WP7 development cycle. The market is not going to wait for Nokia.

    • Cocco Bill

      But, but…WP7 was the only and the best option. Flop said so. MeeGo Harmattan was not ready fast enough, unlike WP7 that will have to wait until Q4/2012 before it can even do things that MeeGo Harmattan can do right now. Like support dual core CPUs. Can’t you people see the irrefutable Flopian logic that WP7 is ready faster because it’s ready later? Black is white and up is down, as we all know. /s

      • Jay Montano

        Lol, bitter, bitter Cocco. WP phone is already out there from Nokia. Two in fact. More on the way in the next 12 months.

        Dual Core, WP does need for bragging rights. Operation? It is already super fast on single core.

        • Uit

          Question, can NOKIA build a proper Flagship now ??? something that would Rival Phone 4s or galaxyIIS no full stop period. Worse in one year it might do what it should be doing today.

          The Lumia 800 is a good decent midrange phone, but the best manufacturer should have the best PHONE in all accounts, at least 1. Like NOKIA used to have in the past.

          Its great marketing having the most exiting fast device there is. Captures people imagination and brand desirability.

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