Nokia comments on Moody’s credit rating announcement
Just reiterating a press release from Nokia. Have to go back now and finish Uni work again…
Espoo, Finland – Nokia notes today’s announcement from Moody’s, reaffirming its investment grade credit rating. Earlier today Moody’s downgraded Nokia’s long-term credit rating to Baa3 and maintained the negative outlook on the rating. Moody’s stated that its investment grade rating is backed by Nokia’s strong liquidity position and capital structure.
Nokia’s financial position remains strong. As of March 31 2012, Nokia had gross cash balances of EUR 9.8 billion, and a net cash position of EUR 4.9 billion.
Cash conservation remains a priority for Nokia in the current transition. We are making progress with our previously announced targets to reduce non-IFRS operating expenses by more than EUR 1 billion in Devices & Services, and to reduce non-IFRS operating expenses and production overheads by EUR 1 billion in Nokia Siemens Networks.
“Nokia is quickly taking action. Nokia will continue to increase its focus on lowering the company’s cost structure, improving cash flow and maintaining a strong financial position,” said Timo Ihamuotila, Nokia’ Executive Vice President and CFO.
Nokia will report its first quarter 2012 results on April 19, 2012.
Published April 16, 2012
http://press.nokia.com/2012/04/16/nokia-comments-on-moodys-credit-rating-announcement/
Cheers arts for the tip!
Category: Nokia
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I called up Nokia Care in India and I got following options:
Dial 1 if call is for Lumia Range of Phones
Dial 2 for all other Phones!
What all other phones??? Only Lumia has a Range…
Looks like 2012 was the year of End of World… nope End of Nokia!
and had you seen nokia priority shops there is only lumia posters,hoardings and flexes,asthough they dont sell anyother phones.
Do you know the characters of losers?
1) find excuses
2) blame others
When some people said, “Elop fails!”, “WP fails”. Then losers will answer :
- it isn’t his fault, it is OPK’s legacy!
- it is still better than Symbian!
As opposed to saying it’s all Elop’s fault?
Circular argument there, chief.
if the results are CRAP and getting worse quarter after quarter and he is the boss almost 2 years, I think its safe to say that he must be doing something wrong.. acceleration on the plunge must be the fault of the driver, not the guy that left the well 2 bus stops ago.
1) Find excuses for Symbian
2) Blame Elop
Yes, I can see your point.
No, I think you don’t.
Symbian had been killed in Feb 2011, it can’t be blamed anymore for Nokia’s failure in Q1-2012
OPK had been fired in 2010, he can’t be blamed too.
transition transition transition
excuses excuses excuses
Disagree.
OPK can’t be blamed for everything, but a large part of the blame falls on him as CEO, for not reacting fast enough when iphone and Android was picking up. The current situation is largely his legacy.
Elop made a good effort with what he took over. Yes, he killed Symbian, but imho, a fast death on a aging and unwanted OS is better than a slow death. It’s a gambit for survival.
You are aware that its this “fast death” that is at the heart of all the problems don’t you?
You know nokia is now of no value, with no user base left how can it migrate people to Lumia range wen there are no users left…
OPK was incompetent, Elop needs a new sort of title elop managed in one year to put Nokia smart phone sales at the level of 2008, and next quarter is going to be worse…
Elop was brought to make things better not exponentially worse.
“It’s much easier to lose a relatively large (but absolutely much smaller) part of a pie that was 6x as large and lost more than half. It’s also more likely for a downward spiral to continue going downwards than to break it.”
Your first point is based on what logic? What evidence? What context?
As to your second point there is inertia to change and in a downward spiral you would assume that slowing the rate of decline would be appropriate but not accelerating it.
There are many instances in the history of Nokia, where I’ve disagreed with their direction. A couple of recent examples:
- Back in 2009 I thought Nokia should put their weight behind Maemo. Instead we got the ill-fated MeeGo transition that cost precious time and resources, and the Symbian^3 debacle.
- After Feb11 I thought Nokia made a mistake in EOLing Symbian so visibly. I would have left Symbian to die quietly – it was dying on the market anyway – and replaced only the next-gen platform (MeeGo) with Windows Phone to protect the transition, if it was felt the MeeGo option didn’t work.
I’m sure when Meltemi eventually hits, or the Lumia transition progresses, there will be moments when I think Nokia ventures into stupidity or wrong calls in my opinion. Then the question becomes, like it did after the above two: What do I personally do about it?
For me it has been very simple. Certainly I’m a fan and a supported of Nokia because it is the home team (of sorts) for us Finns, but I do look beyond that. I use a number of mobile devices (for a number of reasons) and I know what the competition does too. I will continue to use the mobile devices that are best suited for me.
After voicing my ideas for a while, a point comes where I ask myself: Is it better for me to stay with the course Nokia is taking or look elsewhere. The course is what it is. So far the answer has been, yes I think I want to be a part of this. And when the answer is so loudly yes for the Lumia plan, it is easy for me to tag along. I like the products.
Now, if I didn’t like where Nokia is going, after over a year since Feb11, I think I’d just pack my things and move on instead of bitching about it. I don’t see how much of the naysaying and told-you-so mentality here helps us as a community at all. It would just make me a bitter and a sad person. But to each their own, people are of course free to feel and act differently.
I agree almost entirely with you, except I have left Nokia phones behind and probably won’t be back unless Meltemi turns out as promising as it was last time I saw it, or the 808 comes out at a really good price.
When the 2nd gen iPod touches came out, I was given one as a rather expensive present. After a month or two it was stuck in the draw – I was so bored with the UI. When my wife’s iPod broke, I gave her mine to use and I run the iTunes account for the house on this PC so I have stayed updated with it over the last couple of years. Even now with the latest OS on it, it looks positively prehistoric. After this, I know that ‘teh shiny’ is only interesting to me for a short time. Actually, I might be the only person in the world that finds Apple’s UI positively frustrating.
Anyway, when I left Nokia I had to buy a phone contract for the first time in ten years. I could not bring myself to buy a boring old iPhone after my experience with iOS even though I know a lot of people who are very happy indeed with their iPhones and the WP devices weren’t out yet so I opted for an SGS2. It’s rather good as a web & twitter device but it’s useless as a phone. I don’t know if I will buy another Android, it isn’t really that good. It’s OK but no better than that. Sadly, Symbian is such a dead end that not even I would risk a contract on it.
As regards WP, I think it looks good in store but I don’t know anyone who owns one personally.
I’ve got ages left on my Android contract but my wife’s N8 is due for replacement in a few weeks. At the weekend I tried to get her interested in the Lumia 800 or 710, but she’s not even prepared to give it a chance. She would probably be an ideal target – she doesn’t give a crap about which apps are cool and just wants a phone which is a good phone with facebook on it. She even still uses hotmail! For whatever reason though, she isn’t even prepared to give a WP device the 5 minutes to play with one in a store. I don’t suppose it says anything about WP7 and its relative merits but their advertising has had zero impact and it’s been all over the TV channels she watches.
I suspect she’s either going to go onto prepay or get an 808 if they’re available in the UK despite my personal reluctance to buy a Symbian device again.
I have thought all along that WP7 was only a stop-gap until WP8 was ready, but I did not expect the transition to be handled so badly.
observer: Thank you for that post. And hey, we have another point in common – we both find the iOS experience frustrating. Sure if was smooth in a new kind of way and the scrolling was wicked for the time, but it is indeed a very limited and static experience. I recently sold my iPhone 4 and iPad 2 because I wasn’t using them. I think I still have an iPod touch or two somewhere, gathering dust.
It is interesting to note, that I don’t think of the Windows Phone the same way. Sure, the first WP7 in late 2010 (I got the LG Optimus 7) showed promise but lacked various things like copy-paste and app-resume that for me made my daily tasks hard. These were of course eventually fixed and currently I am enjoying Mango on Lumia quite a bit. WP7 feels more dynamic than iOS, thus less limited, less frustrating.
My absolute favourite phone, overall, for the past years has been the N900 though. Maemo 5 was such a trooper. The browser, still, undefeated king of mobile browsing desktop compatibility. Stylus, very useful for small links on websites. And the terminal access and hardware keyboard, it was truly for me a Linux computer in my pocket and I did use it as such on many occasions. Still late last year I took it out and used it for some automation stuff I needed.
Compared to the N900, Lumia is of course a limited experience. But then, so is Symbian, Android (I have an SGS2 with ICS too) and even the N9. So in that sense, what made the N900 so good for me was the way it took “open” and “desktop in pocket” to a whole new level. It was the ultimate Linux computer fitted in the pocket. Even though Linux-based, neither N9 or Android are anywhere near that. So, I find myself liking the Lumia better than N9 or Android, because it does the stupid smartphone thing so well and more enjoyably.
But if I had to choose a Linux computer to carry around, oh boy would I welcome a true successor to the N900 (and no N950 is not it, not with that browser, Aegis and lack of a sharp pointing device).
You mustn’t have been following maemo6 developments for some time.
AEGIS is no longer an issue, there is open-mode or inception.
N9 is for all intents & purposes as hackable as the N900 nowadays.
Only elements of the UX layer is more closed…
But then again Maemo5x was far from perfect in that area anyway.
And there is two MicroB-like browsers on the way.
I’ve been eying some amazing portable keyboards too (one especially).
Might wait a bit longer for things to evolve though.
Saul:
Fair additions. Thank you for the post. My N9 has been gathering dust since the PR1.2 update mostly.
Yeah, I’m sure I could get over the N9 limitations with custom software. But what I liked about the N900 was that it came like that out of the box. It was a very cohesive package for that purpose – and of course had the hardware keyboard, which N950 would fix, but would not fix lack of a sharp pointing device for desktop-mouse-like pointing accuracy…
But yes, you are of course right that some of the issues could be fixed. Maemo just took a turn into modern smartphone (as opposed to desktop Linux in pocket) after Maemo 5, and that turn wasn’t really optimal for me. I really liked what Maemo 5 did, but when it comes to “just smartphones”, Lumia does it better than MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan. For me.
But the turn is reversible, & is easy to do.
Not out-of-the-box like N900, but the two options are there.
Open-mode being the better of the two in the longer run IMO.
You say pointing device is a big issue, yet it’s not on your L800?
Hardware keyboard is fixable if it’s imperative.
There’s a very nice NFC-only (yes) portable coming soon.
Don’t see how it’s a superior device for you as a more sophisticated usr.
But, each to his own…..
Saul:
I’m trying to explain my self. Yes, I agree I could make the N9 better with the suggestions you gave. But it would still remain a “smartphone-like” experience because lacking a keyboard and a sharp pointing device, it isn’t a Linux computer in your pocket quite the same way the N900 was.
I agree Lumia is even more limited than the N9. That is true. But since neither is the N9 the same kind of computer in pocket as the N900 was, it doesn’t matter that much. Same with Symbian. Out of these smartphone platforms, the fluidity of Lumia has won my over as my daily driver. (I have N9 too, and N900, and an ICS Android and Symbian^3 phones.)
Lumia is not a superior device for a sophisticated user, but since N9 is not that “dream device” either in my books (unlike N900 was), I have felt that I might as well have a super-fluid regular smartphone thing in the pocket. If Nokia had a true N900 successor, I might feel differently…
Now it is the consumer-friendly fluidity of Lumia that wins me over, because the full computer-feel is lacking from N9 and as a fluid “limited” smartphone I feel Lumia is superior for me.
Hard to explain. Just a personal preference.
P.S. As for the pointing device, no Lumia does not have a precision pointing device either, but on it I don’t need one becuase I don’t do computer kind tasks on it. On the N900 I could do very precise things and used it as more of a mini laptop even. On the Lumia and N9 I just mostly treat both as capacitive touch smartphones and the requirements are different.
LOL wall-o-text, no need for that, I did get you, kinda
The N9′s becoming the same device you’ve been characterizing the N900 as.
It’s not there yet, but it’s been on that trajectory for some time.
Will it get there in the end? That’s still an evolving story…
It’s certainly much more slick/stable & usable, just not as pliable (mainly UX) yet/ever.
The two big things you cite for it not being a pocketable computer:
1) built-in hw qwerty
It does suck not having one built-in, but it also has it’s merits.
Much slimmer for when you don’t want to do serious typing.
When the need arises you simply bring your portable along.
I can understand why many prefer to have it built-in though.
2) resistive screen
Great having this in many ways, but also great not having it in many ways.
Looking forward to when some sort of hybrid is common-place
But yes I get why you prefer the L800 now, & I can appreciate it!
Bumping up a discussion:
incognito:
“Nokia is on an upwards trajectory, they are doing just fine, analysts are lying, Nokia’s management, Elop included, have a sound strategy and are executing on it flawlessly,”
I expected better from you. I guess you too got swept away with the tide of emotion. On what planet do you live? Who here says such things?
No, Nokia is not on an upward trajectory, Lumia is though. And Symbian was on a downward trajectory before Elop.
Nokia is not doing fine, they are in dire straits for the time being and an acquisition target potentially. Additional twist, the feature phone business has plummeted (which was not affected by Feb11).
Nokia has not been executing flawlessly, clearly their Symbian transition plan failed to sell the planned number of transitional devices. Simply put: The Symbian transition failed.
Who disagrees with me on the above? I’d say most people here agree with the above, whether or not they agree with each other on what to do next. I’d say numbers and qualitative situation proves all of those points.
Here is what we disagree on, though.
I think:
- Lumia strategy has merit and looks promising both as an end-user as well as someone following Nokia’s business. It may fail of course, but it looks promising considering the Windows 8 roadmap and all that. Most importantly, I personally like the Lumia devices and what Nokia is doing with the thing. In most places, Lumia has not sold for a SINGLE full quarter YET. It is very early days yet.
- Changing CEO now would very likely do more harm to Nokia than do good. It would immediately damage the Lumia brand and strategy, putting people and companies within the fledgling ecosystem into wait mode. Nokia can not, in my opinion, benefit from more wait. Very likely it would just hurt them.
- Announcing Qt now for Windows Phone, perhaps years before it would be available, would only add to the Osbourne effect and potentially put off app-makers from developming apps in the meanwhile. It would also add fears of Windows Phone fragmentation, further hurthing the ecosystem. If Qt on WP is to happen, it should be announced when it is available for download and available to all Windows Phones.
- Bringing back N950 and selling N9 in more countries, or a Maemo hobby device on the side in the future, I actually don’t disagree with them. Why not? I have explained ad infinitum why Nokia feels they need to concentrate on Lumia, but I’d say the damage would be minimal and some sales would be better than none. Call it a PR stunt to appease the fans. Financial impact/benefit would be minimal, but some goodwill.
- If CEO must be changed, it must be because the internal projections were to show the Lumia strategy is not working. Only then, in my opinion, would it do more good than harm because that would mean the new strategy target has failed and needs to be changed. In that scenario, and this is pretty much the only thing I agree on Tomi’s to do list, having Jorma Ollila as an interim CEO might be the best choice.
Very well written. I totally agree.
Well written, and i folow you most of the way. But the thing is that Nokia dos not have the option of failing again as the did with the Symnbian transition, and they simply need to set a Backup plan in motion, one that can take over if WP/lumia fails.
So what are the options they have, Meltemi? it looks like this is a S40 replacement so properly not the solution. Meego? I thing that the name meego is dead, so let us call it Meamo, pair that with the Harmattan UI and embrace the ability to run Android apps. In my view this combination could compete with all other current platforms and come out on top. This could be done overnight, but the N9/950 is aging and the window is closing.
If you add pure-view to the combo it would be astonishing. ( that thing should arguably be laying on a shelf in the Nokia R&D department, gathering dust) What a shame..
This is certainly not adding to good news:
[Four major telecom operators in Europe] unconvinced by Nokia’s revival bid
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/uk-nokia-telcos-idUKBRE83G08Z20120417
I posted that as a tip but I doubt Jay feels its news worthy enough. We must only accent the positives.
Anyway the two points that come out of that piece are the 2 points I have been banging on about. The marketing is shit and no one has explained how you get round peoples investment in iTunes.
I just don’t see the iTunes point. I mean, sure the iPhone ecosystem is a powerful “holder”, but that would have been an issue for Nokia no matter what they do (other than give up).
As for the rest of it, certainly Nokia needs to do more in Europe to reach customers if there comments from the carriers are representative. And more to reach carriers as well. According to the Reuters article carriers seemed to wish more marketing from Microsoft to make the platform an easier sell.
I don’t think you are getting my point. With the next billion strategy Nokia has essentially given up on current Smartphone owners its going after the next owners but so is Apple and Google with far better offerings at the moment.
This ties in with iTunes because many people who are willing to try lumia in the west have an investment in iTunes and have the income to buy high end devices. These people have an investment in iTunes which Nokia and MS needed to provide a clear and coherent solution.
So sure many people may like the lumia but they are locked into apples ecosystem. A strategy where you just give up on them is dangerous. Its why sales have been flat because Nokia is chasing the smartphone laggards who by definition have put off buying a smartphone for so long thus they are a harder sell.
You don’t think the iTunes hold affects Android? I don’t think Nokia is giving those people up, but I’m interested to hear if you have some idea how they should chace those who are tied up to existing ecosystems.
Some of course say Nokia should have gone Android, but I guess the ecosystem-tie-down is less there than it is for the iPhone.
So yes, I agree that iTunes locks people down to a certain extent, I just have no personal suggestions on what to do about it – except to deliver a compelling competitive ecosystem and products.
Any ideas are welcome for the discussion.
But with Android you can drag and drop your music across and their a few apps to help you do this and now Google has come out with Google Music.
I have to stress – Nokia did the right thing not going with Android.
Itunes has – music, videos, books, apps.
Music and vidoes that are not in DRM and are in open formats can be managed in an alternate platform – ie easy to move. DRM media you have to convert and thats left to the individual to work out.
Books in itunes are in a propietary format so no chance in moving them across.
Apps are written in a propietary format again no chance to move them across unless their is a rewrite.
Even though you hear the talk is all about apps the reality is the money and best selling apps are all games.
Apple realised this early on – its why IPhone has always had the fastest GPU.
You want the best apps – this really means the best games then Nokia needs a phone with a super fast GPU and MS needs to deliver on a top end games engine.
Harvesting the souls entrenched in the Apple walled garden would, of course, be a problem no matter of the strategy. But lets not forget that the ones suitable for ‘harvesting’ – i.e. the ones that grew sick n’ tired of the system they’ve been locked in but are just too invested to simply leave it – would probably stay away from locked-in systems in the future based on their previous experience. Such people would probably more consider Android/MeeGo/Symbian than WP.
Either way, until there are viable means to transfer your investment across platforms, your proverbial chain and a ball platform needs to piss you off pretty much in order to switch to another. That’s why Apple built the famous ‘walled garden’, that’s why Microsoft is trying to copy it (and the reason why the Qt will not be welcome in their platform, unless they do a 180° turn in their strategy which I see no indications of) – Google is not much concerned with that as they are selling advertisements so one way or the other they get coins in their coffers.
What the creators of competing platforms can, and should do, if they want to get some of the competitors’ cookies is:
- Invest in tools that allow easy porting of apps from competing platforms
- Pay the developers to port those apps
- Pay the developers to offer their current users on other platforms their apps at no price for platform switch (i.e. if you buy Angry Birds on iOS, you get the same thing at no cost on Android/Symbian/Maemo/MeeGo/Windows Phone/whatever)
- Offer developers smaller listing fees and bigger sales cuts in the app stores
- Offer services and features that really do mean something and that are non-existent or badly implemented on the competing platforms
Otherwise the number of people already entrenched on another platform that will switch to yours will be on statistical margins. That’s why it’s far cheaper to keep your existing customer base than to try to snatch it from the competition. Too bad Nokia doesn’t think so…
Good ideas, there.
I think Nokia and Microsoft are doing at least some of the things you listed – and actually, the app store is the least of my worries when it comes to WP. It seems to be sorting itself out relatively well, and W8/WP8 should help things even more when native cofing becomes available.
My biggest worry is Lumia gaining traction during the crucial ramp-up and before WP8 can complete its feature-losses. The mindshare is being made right now – and that needs to succeed at least enough already well before WP8 comes to the block.
again +++++
NOKIA abdicated on its user base as as to completely create a new one from zero or very close to that.
And yet you are still here, Noki.
European carriers: Nokia’s Lumia smartphone “would be much easier to sell” if it ran Android
“No one comes into the store and asks for a Windows phone,” said an executive in charge of mobile devices for one European operator. “
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/european-carriers-nokias-lumia-smartphone-would-be-much-easier-to-sell-if-it-ran-android/19796
Nokia’s mounting troubles provide opening for rivals
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1162540–nokia-s-mounting-troubles-provide-opening-for-rivals
Nokia fails to get powerful allies in Europe
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/telecom/Nokia-fails-to-get-powerful-allies-in-Europe/articleshow/12702217.cms
I’m so sad about these news! Huhuhu!
Like I’ve said, I really worry about Lumia in the India or the like, developing countries. It does not seem like a competitive proposition yet for those condifitions.
As or Europe, like I linked the Reuters original in the message before you, I agree it too is bad news. However, maybe something a little easier remedied than the developing world situation.
Not an easy position for Nokia, definitely.
Android is already number one in former Nokia fanboy countries such as India, China and Philippines.
Huhuhu!
Hey Janne, I thought you were a girl! You remind me of this video! LOL!
Yeah, sure is. Symbian was being obliterated by Android. Would have been, even without Feb11.
Windows is being obliterated by Android as well as evidenced by this:
European carriers: Nokia’s Lumia smartphone “would be much easier to sell” if it ran Android
“No one comes into the store and asks for a Windows phone,” said an executive in charge of mobile devices for one European operator. “
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/european-carriers-nokias-lumia-smartphone-would-be-much-easier-to-sell-if-it-ran-android/19796
I linked the Reuters original a couple of messages up.
I am well aware of the uphill climb Windows Phone is climbing.
Your suggestions is Nokia should go Android? Maybe. Like I said MeeGo too might have worked.
About the only thing that wouldn’t have worked is Symbian – although even then I would have handled the transition differently as explained above.
But what is your point Nok? To get Nokia to switch to Android? We have been discussing what Nokia should do now…
Nokia should drop S30/S40/Asha/Windows-Phone!
Concentrate on MeeGo and Android!
Like how Samsung are concentrating on Android and Tizen.
Nokia : Samsung
1. Android = Android
2. MeeGo (Swipe) > Tizen
Forgot to mention that Nokia should also drop Symbian. MeeGo and Android are better than Symbian!
Well that is at least an interesting and drastic course of action.
A perverse part of me would like to see how it would play out.
Really?
How is Android working out for Moto or SE or even HTC?
Going Android just puts Nokia against more major competitors. There is only room for one kingpin in that world and right now it’s Samsung. Previously it was HTC. Next year it might be someone else.
Not surprised at all about this. Carriers/telco’s want easy selling phones, phones they don’t have to promote, phones that basically sell themselves.
Ofcourse Android powered Lumia’s would sell better, simply because Android is established and well known right now. It has the apps people want and it looks familiar to people and is basically a safe bet when entering a contract.
A carrier is only after selling a contract to people, if they could do it without selling a phone with it they would do it. But the phone that comes with a contract is a part why people enter contracts so they have to.
If Android or iOS makes it easier to sell a contract, of course they will say that a Lumia running Android would be better. Because it would suit them better.
The point is though, would a Lumia running Android be better for Nokia? Perhaps, but in the longer run I doubt Nokia would benefit (it is doubtful whether they will with WP as well, mind you) Nokia can’t compete with primarily Samsung. The Android camp is heavily influenced by new and fast HW, the one area where Nokia might be a differentiator is in the support area where Samsung is lacking heavily.
I’d rather see Nokia sticking with something Harmattan powered than going Android. It just doesn’t seem to fit Nokia.
Nokia should have gone Maemo full blast already before 2007. That would have been THE answer to the current dilemma, I think.
Now there are only imperfect solutions. Android would have had a lot of issues for Nokia, but certainly Windows Phone is an uphill climb.
Reuters for example acknowledges that Nokia’s troubles come from Symbian messing up their high-end smartphone image (no shit, Sherlock), but point out the reasonable second problem: ramping up Windows Phone is hard.
Reuters:
“Nokia is trying to catch up after earlier smartphones were unsuccessful and hurt its image at the higher end of the market.
“Nokia have given themselves a double challenge: to restore their credibility in terms of making hardware smartphones and succeed with the Microsoft Windows operating system, which lags in the market,” the executive said.”
But it is also easy to say Android would have been the answer, because by going Android Nokia would have lost other benefits. Of course, IF the Lumia strategy fails, then that might have been worth it. But I’m hoping it won’t fail, of course. The Lumia strategy has merit. Merit is not of course guarantee of success.
While I do agree that Android would not be the answer – what other benefits Nokia would have lost if they went with Android instead of WP? Except $250M/q which is peanuts compared to the lost profits…
Well, the benefit of an “early start” in the ecosystem and preferential status. The ability the influence the direction of the entire ecosystem. In Android they would have been a late-joiner.
Having said that, Android might have worked, MeeGo might have worked. But all these have different issues, just like WP.
As for what needs to be done TODAY in my opinion is: a) nothing if the internal projections show Lumia is gaining good enough traction b) change the strategy (and management) only if this is not happening.
The blogosphere is too muddied right now to really know what the true story is and what is noise. It is sad when even reputable analysts have been caught up with emotion and gone completely bonkers. It is hard to know what to trust.
maybe elop’s mistake was he thought nokia still had a chance to remain with the big boys.
that was how he explained it anyway.
i think it quite clear now, nokia is probably going to die.
Kinda like world war two right?
like how Britain lost power and the americans came to strength.
I think it is too soon to pronounce a death, Nokia’s cash position is strong and they do have time (unless someone buys them).
But certainly I would have wanter to hear better news the past week or two. The Lumia 900 sales in the U.S. is the bright spot in otherwise gloomy mood.
i just find it very unfair that carriers say all that kind of rubbish.
Like terrible screen. wtf?
and they wanted a third os. a counterbalance.
and look what they are saying now. It would be better if it ran android. they took nokia for a ride.
You have to bear in mind the article is by Tarmo Vikri who is pretty anti Nokia. No sources from the carriers, or indeed even the carriers, are named. There’s even an anecdotal point about one shop in France.
The article doesn’t tel us anything that the profit warning didn’t. If Nokia and MS want the Lumia to succeed then they will need to invest a lot of money into the carriers. At the moment they’re doing that in the US. They’re going to have to do it here too.
Well said. Funny how this article mentions “European carriers” but not a single specific carrier is listed. It’s all “anonymous sources” and such. I could easily send in a news story to the media claiming I have “anonymous sources” within European carriers that say the Lumias are popular.
At the end of the day, these articles are nonsense, and nothing we don’t know. It’s nothing but hyperbole for the anti-Nokia and anti-WP crowd to post about.
All that matters are the cold hard facts; the sales numbers and what direction Lumia sales are heading in. Right now sales are at a low level, but they are steadily increasing.
Once the Lumias become popular enough, it is Nokia and Microsoft that will have the last laugh, as they will have strong dominance over the carriers, and will tell them what to do just like Apple does.
“maybe elop’s mistake was he thought nokia still had a chance to remain with the big boys. ” epic, epic, epic. as nothing to do with his incompetence right??? wen he joined nokia sold twice as much smart phones as Samsung and apple combined.
guess what if nokia dies it will join the long list of companies that went to bed with Microsoft to die.
WE TOLD YOU SO…..
You also told us Symbian is fine.
Tell us everything and something is bound to stick.
Now, drop of the high-horse and join the conversation.
There is discussion to be had.
no. i do not believe he done wrong. He was given a hard task and he did what he could.
AND, he inherited a mess.
and dont need to reply cause it a pointless debate.
noki, remember many months ago, you said, i am here to watch nokia go bankrupt.
i think you are fucked up.
but i wish you all the best.
looks like you have to keep waiting, there is a 5 billion dollar cash pile to burn yet.
$6.5 billion, actually.
I’m glad this hurts the carriers, and that they don’t like it. Carriers have abused and pushed around customers too much. I’m glad that companies like Apple, Microsoft and Nokia can make life more difficult for the carriers to the benefit of customers.
The carriers are having their way.. Apple were the first to bend over for the carriers.. Now Nokia has joined them with the Lumia campaigns..
Really? What planet are you living on? Apple has bent to the carriers? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Apple still calls the shots with carriers. You’re far from reality if you think otherwise.
Apple continues to strictly control iphone pricing with carriers, the marketing, and contract terms like how many minimum units of the iphone carriers must purchase from apple in order for carriers to offer the iphone. Also all updates are done directly by Apple, and most bloatware from carriers is strictly prohibited by Apple.
As Nokia and Microsoft gain influence, carriers will have to play more by their terms.
hahahahahahah sorry that is just funny hahahah..
I guess people got tired of this conversation, as it seems to have dried up.
Simple, it the same old stuff over and over again. And it will be that way until either Nokia changes strategy or starts being succesful with the Lumia line.
You are probably right about this.
definitely right. As someone who <3 Nokia I certainly hope it is a success because in all honesty nokia wouldn't last long enough to try another transition.
I think people are bored with Nokia. Jay’s gonna make a mysamsungblog.com in the future.
They will be even more bored if Nokia changes strategy again and we start another 18 month wait.
There were a significant amount of people that didn’t like Windows Phone.
People liked MeeGo and Symbian more than Windows Phone.
Certainly. But many of those have left, a strategy reversal now would loose many people who liked that strategy (or accepted it and started waiting for results). Reversal might also not bring back many that left – at least not for many months or years.
Personally I’ve been looking at the Nokia transition ever since I moved from the E90 Communicator to N97 as my daily driver. I’ve been through all the transitions Nokia has had since 2008, and of course I was “here” most of the past two decades too. I’ve been through the N900 (loved it), Symbian^3s (not so much) and the N9 (cool but not N900) and now the Lumia.
It gets tiresome, for sure. Another 18 months of wait until a new strategy evolved would not sound like fun for a fan of the team Nokia. So as a purely personal wish: Damn that Elop if he doesn’t finish this transition.
(Of course I have used and owned many other mobile devices as well, iOS devices, Samsung, LG, SonyEricsson, most of the major operating systems…)
never seen you comment til much later. have you been lurking in the bad all this while? o.o
I found this blog only quite late, maybe just a few years ago. By “here” I meant the Nokiasphere. I used to frequent other sites mostly.
stupid auto correct. haha
apparently at best it would lose 3 million clients, that used to be peanuts for nokia.
(me not saying that nokia should, but nokia sure needs to fish in a way bigger pond than the wp glass of water)
and STOP saying TRANSITION…
a SEX change procedure is more of TRANSITION than what nokia did.
My point here really wasn’t highlight the importance of people like me or you. We’re irrelevant. What of course matter ware the masses.
Having said that, I of course have personal wishes – and one of them is that I can continue being a Nokia fan without another 18 month transition to whatever.
Just a little personal wish there. Enough of transitions.
“and STOP saying TRANSITION…”
Call it whatever, I simply mean the change from one solution to the next. First was when Nokia moved to touch Symbian, then to Maemo, then to MeeGo, then to Windows Phone… All this in the span of four years. Aargh.
I still remember when the 9000 Communicator came in the late 1990s, or the first Symbian device 9210 Communicator in 2001. That was also my first Symbian. Then the 7650 in 2002, first cameraphone (and first Symbian smartphone from Nokia). Good times being a Nokia fan. And a time when Symbian wsn’t yet a mess or behind times, it was actually paving a brave new world of smartphones.
About the only highlights of the past for years for me have been the N900 and the Lumia. N8 was long-expected, but only the camera really impressed there. N9 was nice with swipe, but of course it was not the savior we all expected it to be. So yes, I’d prefer some calmer progress now instead of endless transition.
And before someone says I like Windows Phone only because Nokia chose it. Not true. I bought my first Windows Phone (LG Optimus 7) in late 2010 and already liked it then.
that’s the thing, I like the n9 not a huge fan of the wp (would by a iPhone fist), Nokia business is selling terminals, specially since it embraced the I am just an OEM thing…so we ask nokia to stop playing the ecosystems wars and take a more agnostic self centred position in relation to the external ecosystems…promoting Nokia products/technologies instead of exclusivity Microsoft interests.
You realize Nokia IS promoting Nokia products/technologies, right? Like Nokia Maps taking over MS’s own Bing maps. Or like PureView. Or other cool stuff..
In an interesting twist, Engadget actually wrote positively about the news – kind of disparaging the European carriers for hiding/lazy:
European carriers take shots at Nokia’s Lumia line without leaving cover
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/17/european-carriers-turn-on-nokia-and-its-lumia-phones/
Is this the start of a beautiful new friendship, Engadget?
I think it’s more because they’re familiar with Vikri’s reporting.
Negativity aside, if you actually read the article the carriers are complaining that Nokia can’t compete because:
1) MS and Nokia aren’t spending enough on marketing. I think the launch in the US on AT&T has put a few noses out of joint here.
2) They need to cut prices.
These are reasonable points.
they ??? as in nokia needs to sell even at lower prices… hey I would not mind being able to buy the white n9 for under 550€ so I agree…
The commenters also have a reasonable observation:
“A Nokia phone that is more well liked in the U.S. than in Europe? WTF is this, the twilight zone?”
Yeah, WTF!? ;D
They have already cut prices – how low can Nokia go. Smartphone Margins have dropped to 16% lower than featurephones.
As to advertising spend – sure more would help but only upto a point. They also mention the cool things WP does and no one knows about.
Nokia shaved $100 off the Lumia 900 for a temporary period. I bet EU operators would like a cut like that.
Even if Android is dead, WPX is king, do you think Nokia can win the fight versus Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC, Huawei, ZTE (with the same OS)? IMO, unlikely, unless, all Nokia phones are made in China. The best Nokia can achieve is about 20 %, those 60-70 % in the past can’t be repeated again.
Going with WP only still poses danger even if WP wins.
“The best Nokia can achieve is about 20 %, those 60-70 % in the past can’t be repeated again.
Going with WP only still poses danger even if WP wins.”
Although, ironically, Nokia achieved those 60-70% with similarly limited operating-system selection: Symbian and the Series 30/40 in the lower end.
Now they are trying with Windows Phone and the Series 30/40 (and Meltemi) in the lower end.
Nokia has always had more focus with their operating systems than many other manufacturers. Even during Nokia’s heyday.
Actually a successful WP permanently cements a competitive advantage for Nokia because they can customize (and influence MS’s roadmap) it in a way that no other phone manufacturer can.
Just a point I came across elsewhere, one of the reasons Nokia chose Windows Phone instead of Android is certainly their NAVTEQ and location-based services. Who powers Android’s such services? Google does. In the Windows Phone ecosystem it is/will be Nokia. Indeed Microsoft seems to pay Nokia royalties for all Windows Phones sold… and of course this setup allows Nokia to differentiate in location-based services too.
We have just scratched the surface on what Nokia plans to do with location. It will be interesting to see, unless they panic and throw everything into chaos again.
They massively overpaid for Navteq and haven’t done much with it whilst Google has developed an excellent mapping and routing product whilst Nokia sat on their hands.
Anyway Google strengths is delivering scalable services. They are getting better at operating systems software with each iteration of Android. They just bought the hardware skills from Motorola.
MS can deliver scalable services and wrote the book on operating systems software- you may hate windows but its been a roaring success. They have little hardware skills.
Nokia has not shown much in delivering scalable services but has shown some green shoots in developing operating systems software ie Meego. Their skills are in hardware.
Apple has shown it is capable of delivering scalable servicesin Itunes and Icloud but not on the level of MS or Google who excel at this. Apple has the best GUI designers and has consistently delivered excellent operating systems software. Their hardware skills are matched by Nokia.
All of these companies have strengths and weaknesses in deliveriing and supporting an ecoystem and devices.
You could put it broadly as Apple vs Google + Samsung vs Nokia + MS. Yes there are other other Android makers but Samsung is far and ahead the biggest Android manufacturer in terms of numbers.
galaxy s3 to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary,something iphone4 and 4s.if it is true then nokia with windowsphone8 has a chance to play against it.
crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/samsung-galaxy-s3-to-be-minor-update-with-eye-tracking-exclusive-50007654/
Quite frankly, I’m not surprised…
Galaxy 3 will just look like a Note. It will be the same crappy Samsung design.
This leaves the door wide open for Nokia’s WP8 phones to blow people away, especially if they have a Lumia Pureview phone ready to go.
I think the WP8 Lumias and Iphone 5 will hurt the Galaxy 3. Iphone 5 is supposed to be a big change.
What is so revolutionary in WP8, i can not find anything… do you know.
galaxy s3 to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary,something like iphone4 and 4s.if it is true then nokia with windowsphone8 has a chance to play against it.
crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/samsung-galaxy-s3-to-be-minor-update-with-eye-tracking-exclusive-50007654/
HUmmm not sure….Would be good news but it does not make sense…specially the “And it probably won’t be called the Galaxy S3″ if not then its not the samsung-galaxy-s3 rendering the entire article bogus by definition…
we will see but,… “smoke and mirrors” its all “smoke and mirrors”
If WP does take-off in a big way, & becomes the 2nd ecosystem alongside Android.
And if Nokia starts to falter compared to other WP handset makers as that happens.
(i.e. constantly behind hw/dvr-wise etc)
It’ll be interesting to see how many of the “WP-only” supporters stick around.