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WP8 for WP7/Lumia devices rumour round up.

| April 21, 2012 | 82 Replies

The will it, won’t it drama of whether any current WP devices will get an update to Windows Phone 8 continues.

I say, is the phone you’re looking at a decent proposition for the price? If you’re happy with the current performance, do you know if it will remain like this a year down the line? As a reader and commenter here once said,

To be completely fair, I don’t get this obsession with OS “updates” which essentially change the OS from the ground up and make it more difficult to run on old hardware.

If you buy a phone, it’s best to do so going by what it can do right now, at this very moment, than by what a company promised or hasn’t promised for the future.

Dr_Zorg

For some, however, they do feel updates are important. Regardless of Dr_Zorg’s advice, they will still pick up a phone in the hopes that certain improvements will come in a software update, OR they simply want to be included in future releases. With contract phones, you may be stuck for 2 years so updates may add longevity to your phone.

Either way, it’s up to you whether it matters or not.

Let’s go through some of the news related to this that I’ve come across:

1) WP7 apps are compatible with WP8. The original rumour cleared up, apparently the source was confused with compatibility and updates.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9226381/Microsoft_evangelist_corrects_comment_that_Windows_Phone_7_devices_will_get_upgrade_to_Apollo_?

Microsoft are keeping a tight lip on information about Apollo/WP8.

2) Nokia Lumia 800 being tested with Apollo?

This site is relatively new, but after checking another tip, it was also talked about by WMPU.

http://www.insideris.com/windows-phone-8-features-vpn-uncertain/

http://wmpoweruser.com/rumor-windows-phone-8-being-tested-on-nokia-lumia-800-new-features-detailed/

Now, insideris seems to be a new site and despite being self acclaimed ‘insider information you can trust’, well we can’t just trust because it tells us to.

3) Ignore this because it’s a hoax. Someone posing as Joe Belfiore to ‘clear up rumours’.

Hey guys ! Sorry I’m so busy ..Well no problem, don’t worry.. I’ve been using lumia 800 & 900 for weeks and it rocks! ;) Lumia 800, 710, 610, 900 and others will get WP8. That’s my Xbox avatar on lumia screen. Do you like it? ahahaha Stay tuned for the final victory.. Great news for you bye ;)

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https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=294706937271024&set=a.136048169803569.33739.135109193230800&type=3&theater

 

For a verified Joe Belfiore:

https://twitter.com/#!/joebelfiore

He is aware of the rumour mill surrounding WP but generally, things as high profile as this is not talked about. Not unless there’s a major source already discussing it, i.e. one of their partners.

For example, Verizon talked about backing Windows Phone.

Going back to insideris, MS are apparently keeping a tighter lip on anything to do with Apollo? Why? Because of the nature of the smartphone market, popular things get copied by your competitors. If you announce too far away from launch, then by the time your products are out, competitors might already have that feature on their own devices. It’s about that WebOS moment when Palm announced something completely unexpected and groundbreaking. That however, also shows that a good OS will die with bad execution to market. His source is msnerd, who did a ‘Ask Me Anything’ at reddit. Now that again is another source we can’t just trust without question – all rumours in general must be remembered as just rumours. MSnerd has cleared up himself that a lot of his info is already known and he’s just repeating it. A little better than certain others who like to claim to ‘predict things’ that we already read about.

http://www.reddit.com/r/casualiama/comments/r4q5l/iama_someone_who_leaks_information_about/c4413z0

4) I just glanced at this but didn’t have a chance to save it. I read more rumours that WP7 handsets will still get some form of Apollo. Apollo ‘lite’. Not actual Apollo but many of the features, like how some of the older Nokia phones got new Anna browser and such, but not actually Anna.

I have no link for this. But if you feel the need to click on textbox links and whilst I’m talking about mobile browsers, I have some cute for you, courtesy of Reddit also

http://i.imgur.com/5LfGD.jpg

http://imgur.com/IKlLE

Thank you everyone who sent these tips in.

 

 

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Category: Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • manu

    i dont think current lumia will get a full fledge appolo update,samsung already stated they are done with windows phone 7.5 and will only launch window 8 device.
    If current users get something appolo lite it will be good also bt file transfer has to added,zune has to removed.

  • Diogo

    Nokia does the Windows Phone death dance…
    Nokia was on the brink, Elop came to give a push. Nokia fell into the abyss.

    Windows Phone 8 can do what the old 5800 did?

  • manu

    @jay as rumors suggest is windows phone 8 is completely built from scratch with a new kernal.???

    • migo

      Nobody knows for sure yet, which might also be why they’re so tight lipped. MS may have not decided either.

      I’d actually be a bit concerned if they’re doing it two pronged, but in some ways it might work. They’re already bringing Windows 8 to ARM, and at some point Windows RT will be ready for market, around the same time or a bit later, it’ll also be able to move to phones.

      So what could be going on is the current WP team keeps working on developing the OS on the current codebase, bringing in some minor and major changes, and these have a very real possibility of getting rolled out to any device that the manufacturer supports and that the carrier approves. Then whenever Windows RT is good, they shift gears and switch to Windows RT for the next version of Windows Phone. That could mean that Tango is the last version of Windows Phone on the current codebase, and Windows Phone 8 will be Windows RT scaled down to the smaller form factor. It could also mean that Apollo is the last release on the current code base (or maybe one after that), and Windows Phone 9 instead will be Windows RT scaled to the smaller form factor.

      Alternately, they could have already decided that Tango is the last release on the current codebase, and that no matter what, Apollo will be Windows RT, and they’re 100% certain they’ll be releasing those phones in 2012/2013, maybe even with Windows Phone 8 preceding Windows RT as there’s a different set of app compatibility requirements it has to follow, and the one question mark being whether they can get it running well on current hardware. And running well is the key bit. Can Windows RT run on a 1GHz S2 with 512MB RAM? Sure. Can it run smoothly and lag free the way people have come to expect from Windows Phone? Maybe not.

  • mdev

    There is nothing to discuss unless there is an official announcement from Microsoft. It will be suicidal for Nokia to allow such travesty from Microsoft but I will not be surprised one bit if all current Lumias are Apollo-less.

    Oh, and please WP supporters make your mind already. Either WP7.5 is excellent and competitive as it is, or it is not and the upgrade to WP8 is essential for the existing customers.

    The sales point that WP7.5 is not at all excellent and WP8 can’t be here fast enough. On the other hand if it is such underwhelming update as Mango, it will not change anything. Either way, it is absolutely ESSENTIAL for the current Lumia devices to be upgradeable to WP8 (not LITE but full!).

    If desktop PC with 512 MB ram and 500 MHz CPU can run Windows 7 there is no excuse for the current devices to be left with the “excellent” WP7.5.

    • incognito

      Nokia might have been in the position to ‘not allow such travesty from Microsoft’ a year ago, today they have to dance to the Microsoft tune because they left themselves with no choice at all. They don’t have a single card in their hands to raise the stakes of Microsoft.

      If Microsoft decides not to bother with porting the WP8 to older devices, Nokia can just sit and watch and pray for a miracle. Such is the position of the one that willingly puts his company’s future in the hands of an another company, and additionally burns the bridges behind him so that his company has no choice but to remain in that vassal position… Till death do ‘em part…

      • mdev

        Well, if one is wildly optimistic, there is one other explanation but you must be VERY optimistic to buy it.

        Elop is threatened by the BoD that he and Microsoft will get the shaft if there are no new WP8 devices in one quarter. Microsoft abandons everything that can slow the release (upgrades of existing devices, support of existing phones, etc.).

        This is gamble but given the current very small number of WP7.5 devices, it is not that strange. Either WP8 will be huge success and the small number of unhappy abandoned WP7.5 owners will be lost in the see of happy WP8 owners; or WP8 will fail and upgrade for the existing customers will bring nothing.

        Do not forget, that WP is just an risky adventure for Microsoft. If it does not bear fruit soon, it will be abandoned and to hell with Nokia and the current Lumia owners.

        • troll

          I see you speak with such certainity on many matters.

          Many i know your relationship with nokia’s board of director?

          I only have speculations and no answers, but you seem to be very sure of them.

      • Zipa

        I disagree. MS is at least as dependent on Nokia’s success as Nokia is dependent on Microsoft.

        And mind you, Nokia is not the only WP-manufacturer that would get “screwed over” by MS in such a case. Do you really think that MS is in such a strong position when it comes to mobile that it can afford to alienate *every* current WP-manufacturer?

        • mdev

          1. Only Nokia has dared to bet its entire future to WP. If there are not WP updates for the existing devices, the other manufacturers will not be hurt at all.

          2. Unlike WP, Microsoft does not DEPEND on success of WP to survive. Even if WP is complete failure (which it is at this point), they still have their strong sells of non-mobile products.

        • nn

          You are right, in a way. I think WP is last serious chance for MS to make inroads into mobiles, if it fails they will simply die along with PC industry. But this is long term problem. On the other hand, for Nokia WP is question of very short term survival, Elop’s policy of no plan B guaranties that Apollo is truly last attempt, after that it’s just selling Nokia apart. And this time scale difference makes the inequality, MS executives can even think that they have time for one more attempt after WP (assuming for the moment that they bother to think for long term).

          And other thing is that even if Nokia had leverage over MS, Elop would not use in the same way he didn’t use it before, for him the success of MS ecosystem is first and Nokia secondary.

    • troll

      Interesting that you said wp supporters make up your mind.

      You were starting your own thread.

      Almost akin to shouting at a wall.

    • Pedro

      Windows 7 does run on a low specs pc. User experience is probably not the best but it runs.

      If Microsoft wants to bring WP8 to all price points (like WP7.5 on Nokia 610) the requirements for running WP8 simply can’t be quad core 1GB phone with super resolution.

      If they want to reach lower price range with Windows Phone operating system single core and lower specs will be supported in the next release as well.

    • migo

      A desktop PC with 512MB RAM and 500MHz CPU most definitely can not run Windows 7. You need at least 1GB RAM and 1GHz CPU to run Windows 7 at all, and that’s fully stripped down for maximum performance and still a bit laggy. Windows 8 is much more efficient and does run on 512MB RAM (barely), but still not on anything less than 1GHz CPU that I have heard of.

      WP7.5 as is is fine. Not great, but fine. As with any platform, it has compromises, but I prefer the WP7.5 compromises to those of Android 2.3 and earlier and any version of iOS. From what I’ve heard ICS is a lot better, but at the moment you’ve got the Galaxy Nexus and a couple others coming out right now. Windows Phone 7.5 > Android 2.3. 4.0 though, it still crashes. I rather my phone be rock solid and reliable and leave crashes to less essential devices like tablets and computers.

      • flyingbathtub

        i’ve installed windows 7 on a 2002 laptop with 256MB RAM, PIII 750MHz. and it run sufficiently smoothly.

  • http://www.psyzone.co.in Bhairav Pardiwala

    Dont care abt consumers
    if devs which are majority of nokia lumia 800 testers don’t get apollo then ms can forget abt apps using the latest api features all ms will get is a great load of apps which look extremely limited in features(oh theyl be compatible all right but under featured to take advantage of new os) and because of that users will once again get the impression that app market may be booming but have no app quality and OS itself is underpowered
    if no api update is case then i as a dev also encourage fellow devs to go with apple atleast api will be consistent over there !!!

    • http://www.psyzone.co.in Bhairav Pardiwala

      ps meant to say consumer feature updates

    • mdev

      While I agree with your sentiment, it just underlines what small market are the WP phones. If you can not invest money in new WP9 phone to release new apps, I can’t imagine any serious developer wanting to enter such market.

      • http://www.psyzone.co.in Bhairav Pardiwala

        its not abt the money .its abt commitment to future and dignity.
        after (symbian) nokia should understand that its devs are much more susceptible after having just abandoned one “Fiery platform” to think they would have to completely abandon another development platform(silverlight) in favour of winrt framework in (1.5 years transition?).
        Which is still ok if one has phones to test them on but new phones to support new developer framework and new wanted api available only on
        those phones is too much.
        dont get me wrong though
        even if devs might be angry no one(in their right minds) would want to abandon this platform even after considering this setback!

      • Just Visiting

        @mdev…Serious developers are already on the WP platform, save a handful of ‘holdouts’ :)

        Microsoft has pretty much assuaged current developers regarding their app compatibility on WP8 devices. WP is THE 3rd ecosystem now…this WP8 update situation is not going stave off app developement.

    • incognito

      Most of the ‘popular’ apps for the WP were written before the Mango update so they don’t use the advantages and fixes Mango provided, which is the cause of great many moans about WP seriously lagging behind `the pack`… And that was to be expected as, while Microsoft throws a commendable amount money at developers to entice them to their platform, they usually do it once per developer/team of developers/software companies and don’t bother on continually funding them.

      On the other hand, given the abysmal user base, developers don’t have the incentive to update their software as they are, for the most part, seeing no return of investment – therefore they don’t bother.

      Same will happen with the switch to WP8, whether the current devices are updateable or not – a small number of developers will bother to update their apps to use the strengths of the new platform.

      Trust me, upgradeability of the current devices is the smallest problem for us devs. After all, we (my company) received a shitload of free Omnia 7s from Microsoft back in the day, but despite that we never bothered with their platform. Paying for a testing device is peanuts compared to the cost of development – Apple, Google, Samsung, HTC, Sony or any other manufacturer never gave us any devices yet we develop for both iOS and Android for years. We dropped support for BB last year (along with Nokia) and they also never gave us anything – well, to be fair, they gave us Playbooks, but we dropped support for them prior to that and it didn’t help them throwing a couple of free devices our way.

      Heck, even Nokia never threw a device towards us and we were supporting Symbian for years, and we started working on a proper Qt support for both Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo in the late 2010 (took a great deal of convincing from my part), which of course abruptly ended after the Feb’11 – well, actually March when we gather around with our partners (we are developing a quite popular set of supporting cross-platform libraries which about 20 other companies use for their software). Interestingly, Microsoft somehow found out about our yearly cycles and sent a goodwill package of Omnia 7s right before our yearly deliberations – that didn’t help with unanimous voting against WP support – but the Feb’11 helped with unanimous voting to drop Symbian support and abort any Qt proceedings we started. The past March Nokia’s own systems were still considered (Symbian is still strong in many markets) but as the last year the conclusion is that we are not to be bothered with a system that the manufacturers themselves threw away. Only one of our partner companies brought the subject of WP in a sense `it might be useful to support it` – but we all agreed that we are not to be bothered with it.

      TL;DR: Having the access to devices on a certain platform has almost absolutely nothing to do with the decision whether developers will consider that platform. Devices are far cheaper than development cost.

      • mdev

        +1 my developer experience is very similar

        Symbian was not abandoned until Elop. It is such a shame that exactly when it become viable to develop for Symbian with advent of Qt, Elop decided to kill the platform.

        Before Qt, Symbian was huge pile of s**t but Qt really fixed most of the problems from developer point of view.

        Even if Elop was utterly convinced that Symbian has no future, he is criminal for letting this golden opportunity to capitalize on existing investments. Even more so about MeeGo.

        I, for one, do not believe any Meltemi miracle stories. This is just dust in the eyes of the shareholders to allow Elop to continue with his WP only plan.

        • Ebon & Unicorn N9s

          Nokia’s marketing team is in discussion with our team\company with Meltemi. Although they aren’t giving out much info, they have been sure about Qt support on the new OS which they indicated should be released later this year (no timeline yet)..

      • Ebon & Unicorn N9s

        Same with my team.. We dropped updating the Symbian version since Q3 last year (We waited 6months to see how the demand is there for the Symbian version). We’ve been avoiding developing WP version even with MS ready to pay for the development. They wanted us to redesign our UI\UX to fit the Metro design and we weren’t willing to do that..

        But now, MS have gone one step ahead and started to pressurize the higher management in my big company and force our team into developing the new Ui\UX design and the app.. Currently, my company is under discussion whether to wait for Win8\WP8 before developing than to do it on WP7.5.

        • Just Visiting

          Really? What app would that be? I’ve seen a few WP apps where developers did not follow the Metro design language; it seems weird that Microsoft would ‘pressure’ your team/company to do so. My understanding is that Microsoft recommends that you follow the design language, but that it isn’t mandated.

          Your team must have a super awesome app for Microsoft to put the pressure on :)

      • Janne

        incognito:

        How is the RIM strategy working for you? No Feb11 means huge success, right?

        • incognito

          As I’ve said countless of times before – one cannot compare Nokia and RIM while remaining intellectually honest.

          Different starting positions, different philosophies, different target markets, different sizes… If RIM switched to WP they’d be dead by now – completely, Nokia is a far different beast and can survive starvation for far longer, and still has enough weight to throw around.

          And if you really want to compare them – compare what Nokia was 18 months ago compared to RIM, and what it is now, and then see who come closer to whom. RIMs decline was far, far smoother than Nokia’s.

          • Janne

            “RIMs decline was far, far smoother than Nokia’s.”

            Of course it was. And I keep conceding this point: What Elop did to Symbian EOL was a mistake and hastened the demise of Symbian sales unnecessarily. The decline would have been somewhat smoother without that.

            But the point remains. Both RIM and Nokia were on the verge of a cliff (hey, even your saved-in-a-quarter choirmaster Tomi agrees) with uncompetitive legacy offerings. Both initially decide to try and build their own ecosystem. Both end up trying mostly alone.

            Nokia decides this will not do, makes a U turn and goes to Windows Phone. RIM decides all is well, tries to sell this spiel over two years to a tech-media who can not believe their ears when RIM says the things they say. And where are they now? Out with a PlayBook? Out with the management? Looking for a bank to rescue them?

            Now, if RIM can pull this off, I’m officially saying Nokia too could have pulled off MeeGo still in 2011. I think Nokia at least had a chance, MeeGo might have worked. But it will surely be a hard road for RIM to muster support for their ecosystem once BB10 hits. It will be interesting to see.

            And no, going Windows Phone now probably would not be the best bet for RIM. They need to find and make their own best bet, whatever that is. Maybe it is staying with BB10. In my world without the blacks and whites, there is room for shades of gray.

  • http://www.psyzone.co.in Bhairav Pardiwala

    Dont care abt update of features
    if devs which are majority of nokia lumia 800 testers don’t get apollo then ms can forget abt apps using the latest api features all ms will get is a great load of apps which look extremely limited in features(oh theyl be compatible all right but under featured to take advantage of new os) and because of that users will once again get the impression that app market may be booming but have no app quality and OS itself is underpowered
    if no api update is case then i as a dev also encourage fellow devs to go with apple atleast api will be consistent over there !!!

  • Rebbe

    The problem is that OEMs would need to write new drivers to the new kernel for older devices and I suspect that the update process will be like updating from XP to win 7 … Microsoft needs to find a way to save your settings and apps…

    I’m sure the update will come to older devices, MS only wants to be sure that it really works!

    • mdev

      This is such a naive explanation. What about someone that buys new WP8 phone and wants to transfer his data from its current WP7.5 devices? It is the same problem and it must be solved anyway.

      As I said before the most probable explanation is that MS does not want to waste time and money catering to the current abysmal (few million) WP customers.

      You are just part of the beta-test, sorry and come back again to buy a shiny new WP8 device! :)

      • Rebbe

        You are probably right… WP 8 needs to be competitive and integrate well with win 8 for the “three screens” mantra to work (and have an advantage against other OSs) and get it released as soon as possible.

        But this will hurt MS and Nokias image (I don’t think HTC and Samsung cares about if their phones will get the upgrade…) But Nokias WP only strategy needs every consumer they get, and people who bought the 900 are looked to a 2 contract and if Apollo is released few months later they will be pissed off. People will think Nokia and MS don’t support older devices and it will hurt the brand.

      • migo

        No, transferring data and writing new drivers are completely different issues. HW manufacturers have to do absolutely nothing for data transfer to happen.

    • migo

      You’re right, that would have to happen. It definitely throws a wrench in things. Dell had no interest in fixing the wonky compass driver for the Venue Pro, so since they’ve exited the smartphone business there’s no reason they would release new WP8 compatible drivers for the Venue Pro. That would mean if WP8 is based on MinWin, no WP8 for the Venue Pro. Now HTC, Samsung and LG? They’re still in the market, providing updated drivers and supporting products creates consumer loyalty. Same goes for Nokia, if it’s possible they’ll want to provide the update just so consumers like them more and are more likely to buy from them again. I know if I bought a Samsung Focus (from some company other than AT&T), and it never got WP8, while the LG Optimus 7 did get an update to WP8, I’d buy from LG over Samsung the next time around. Same goes with the Lumia 710, if I stay on WP7.5 with it, and the Omnia W does get WP8, I might consider buying my next phone from Samsung.

      So if Microsoft makes WP8 available to first gen hardware, it is in the best interests of the manufacturer to write the updated drivers to support it.

  • mdev

    The lack of desire on part of Microsoft to offer WP8 is not that puzzling as it seems and it has nothing to do with the hardware. It seems that they do not care about the current users because their number is so insignificant. Thus it does not make business sense to waste time and money to keep happy few million users.

    • Anon

      I think you’re right.
      Since most ppl that have bought an WP phone are an hardcore windows fan or hardcore Nokia brand fan they know that they will also buy the WP8 phones.
      So i think they see it as a way to increase WP sales.

  • http://www.nomasla.net FireDragon

    Dr_Zorg’s advice is very honest and practical. But well there are those who called ^consumers^ and than there are some who are those.

    You will be surprised if I share buying trend here in Pakistan. It is based on Resale price – specially in mobiles. Before buying, they ask for resale market to see what price of used devices are. They research on resale value first and make their purchase (and advice me to do the same). And luckily for Nokia, Nokia still have highest resale value, not only in price but in resale a used handset too.

    Sony Ericsson (late) vanished from market due to same reason. However now Samsung is gaining some good momentum but not much. They are doing pretty good with the new handsets though.

    Another good news I am seeing lot of new Nokia, or should I say Belle based Nokia on streets and in functions.

    • mdev

      Unfortunately, this does not matter for Elop. If he lose 5 non-US customers and gain 1 US customer, he will be very happy. It does not matter that US market is saturated and the prices must be lowered to shit to move any volume there.

      • http://www.nomasla.net FireDragon

        Yes, true that too. I don’t quite understand WHY this matter this much for everyone. Maybe it is because US portray themselves as the biggest power so the image marketing people made in their minds if US people accepted something it will be hit everywhere in the world. Maybe Apple and Android has something to do with this image, and the Hollywood movies.

        Gaining new market is good but they got to keep things in balance.

        • poiman

          Of course 1 new client in the US is more important than 1 new client somewhere else.
          US Market is where new market trends get started.

          • troll

            true of the past. Will see what happens in the future. Like mozilla’s efforts in brazil.

  • Bloob

    Seems like we need to wait until E3, for the Apollo announcement. No new info before that.

    • mdev

      I would not hold my breath. It is also an rumor that there will be definite information on E3.

      Basically, the strong “lack of desire” on part of Microsoft to announce upgrade for current devices is good enough for any observer. If they do it tomorrow, it will not reveal anything about WP8, so there is no need to pretend that they delay the upgrade announcement to hide the features of WP8.

      There will be no WP8 upgrade for the current devices. Get over it and move on.

  • manu

    i still dont see any good games for windowsphone even gameloft who makes games for symbian is neglecting WP

  • Sonny

    come on jay hold a poll on if elop should go or stay. Every article you have on this site theirs always people talking about elop. It would be interesting to see what the result is.

    • poiman

      What’s the point. Majorities aren’t always right. For example, if you made a poll on this blog asking if Symbian should be Nokia’s main OS, the majority would say YES, despite the fact that the OS is a sh*t.

      • mdev

        I agree, the only vote that count is the people that vote with their money. And for more than a year now they vote NO to Windows Phone.

        The dying Symbian still outsells WP 5 to 1 regardless of the fact that no new flagship device was released since the end of 2010 (N8), not to mention the trash talking of Symbian and MeeGo from Mr. Elop himself.

        • troll

          Your analysis has a few inconsistencies in them.

          1. Symbian is available in far more permutations and reaches a far broader price point than wp. Coorelation between the two is impossible. Forcibily doing so shows nothing.
          Metrics such as margins, asp need to be factored in. Or 5:1 is basically meaningless.

          2. Nobody had supported wp in a way Nokia ever had. You seem to support this statement, given you mentioned it in a comment.

          3.I have no data on elop trash talking symbian. Publicly at least. Mind sharing some data? The one i am aware of is the burning memo was always meant for personnel eyes only. Which was leaked. Unless there is proof of the identity of the leak, i dont see how, at least for the burning memo, elop was trash talking symbian.

          • mdev

            1. What is available? 18-month old Nokia N8 is the only good Symbian device and it is old, very old. Not to mention that Symbian phones are virtually without any marketing support from Nokia and sub-zero support from operators since Feb 11, when Elop declared that Symbian is dead and everyone should abandon it.

            2. Oh, I agree. Nokia supports WP even with the cost of its very existence. For Nokia, it is WP or bust! This does not change the fact that even Nokia WP sales are terrible.

            3. You should look up the “burning platform” memo and Feb 11 announcement. It is widely known as the biggest trash talking of a company and its products (Symbian) by its own CEO. It will be in the management books soon. ;)

            • troll

              1. Which leads us back to price point differences. Was symbian selling 5 n8 to 1 lumia 800 or 5 nokia 500 to 1 lumia 800?

              If they are still selling 5 n8 to 1 lumia 800 then sure. There is a problem. But if its 5 nokia 500’s to 1 lumia 800….

              2. Terrible in comparision with?

              3. I would love it if you can share actual links with me.

              • mdev

                The ASP is not going up with Lumia sales at all. This is accounting trick as the 250 mln. USD from Microsoft are included as profits from phone sales. Without them the ASP is steady.

                And yes, N8 is still the best selling Symbian device. Judging by the Nokia Store download statistics, it has about 40-50% of the sales of Symbian devices and it alone outsells Lumias by big margin.

                • arts

                  and the proof that n8 is the best selling comes from……

                  and the last i checked, the asp did not increase but there was a 50% drop in smartphone shipments.

                  which shows the symbian sold are pretty much low end goods.

  • DKM

    Well a reputed twitter, he was right in his tips on many occasions

    Here is the link:

    https://twitter.com/#!/MS_nerd/status/192812967157436416

    • Ebon & Unicorn N9s

      Not that reputed.. Lot of his claims have been wrong in the past.. Many of MS fansites don’t take him\her that seriously..

  • Muneeb

    Well i am thinking that Wp7.5 Apps are compatible with wp8, but will wp8 apps will run on current lumia’s

    • advent

      that is indeed the key question. .. and the answer is no… wp8 apps wont run on 7.5 in many cases due to the fact that wp8 is meant to expand the capabilities beyond 7.5

      therefore unless lumia 900 gets the update to wp8, it will be obsolete pretty quickly.

      so whether wp8 can run 7.5 apps or not is not even the issu

      • Rebbe

        Therefore I think the older devices will get the update. Marketplace would be fragmented.

        Sure they could continue to make 7.5 because they will also run on wp8 but if wp8 allows native code for easier porting of games/apps and brings new APIs why would developers invest in making 7.5 apps.

  • viktor von d.

    i think elop talked about this. even if you won’t get appollo on current lumias he talked about bringing over some features from symbian in the current range. plus blue tooth transfer, mass storage, new camera ui with more options. so there will be updates, just not sure if appollo will come on board.would be really stupid if it didn’t ,at least in second generation devices.

    oh and Elop must die,he is the harbinger of death, death to microsoft, hail symbian and meego, nokia is on the brink of destruction, it’s inevitable, it’s a conspiracy, they are even paying people to post on this blog with praises for wp. /s

    • Saul

      Most people are actually using rational argument.
      You seem to enjoy characterizing “everyone” that disagrees w/the WP-only strategy as morons.
      Nothing could be further from the truth…

  • X

    the aforesaid handsets are being tested with Apollo..

    • migo

      We’re taking someone’s word for it. That said, it’s much more likely that it’s true than not, and I’d assume they’d be testing it even if nobody had said anything about it. Of course being tested doesn’t say anything about whether we’ll actually see it.

  • juwelrana091

    Elop should be Sucide..coz He is dumb mind man..who appointed him in nokia? Isn’t nokia heard crowd? What people want? People Crazy about MeeGO..but he choosed useless Os.. I challange.. Microsoft…my nokia 5730 (Symbian S60v3) can do many things which Mango can’t do…Symbian belle Fp1 Awasome…i am seeing nokia going hell…Elop works for MS In nokia office.

    • troll

      He should commit suicide. Corrected the first one for you.

  • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslik

    Paul Thurrott is sure WP8 upgrade is not going to happen:

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888

    “Allow me to set the record straight. No. It won’t happen. Not for the Lumia 900, and not for any other existing phone. It won’t happen partially, through an update that will deliver just some features, and it won’t happen for those who wish to pay for such an update. It simply isn’t happening. Sorry. But please don’t email me about this; I’m just the messenger.”

    Sadly, he may be right, as Microsoft really is able to make such stupid business decisions sometimes.

    But his reasons are just unbelievable:

    “First, there’s no economic imperative; Microsoft’s partners have sold very few Windows Phones, and supporting a new platform on legacy hardware would be expensive. Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors. Third, handset makers and wireless carriers would never support this upgrade; they want to sell new phones. And finally, wireless carriers would never, ever, ever, ever deliver this update to users.”

    Recap:

    1. Too low sales to date to care about current customers.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

    2. Terrible WP8 experience on single core.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

    3. OEM don’t want it.

    4. Carriers don’t want it.

    I’m afraid that because of no. 2 I won’t want WP8 on a new device too, because it’s efficiency advantage over Android is apparently gone.

    BUT: I just don’t believe it. At last the reasoning is simply weird and disgusting.

    • incognito

      Given his track record, he wouldn’t claim:

      “And that’s true even when you factor out that I know for a fact that this isn’t happening. Again. Sorry.”

      If he really wasn’t sure. So, chances are 99% it ain’t happening.

      Then again, I’ve heard from other sources that Apollo won’t be what everybody makes it out to be (WP8, with MinWin kernel etc.) so there are still hopes to update – just not an update to WP8.

      • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslik

        Ca. one year ago Paul Thurrott claimed with similar certainty Mango (WP7) is delayed and there is no way it could launch in 2012.

        • incognito

          Truth to be told, he claimed that there is a possibility for it to be delayed, based on his sources in Microsoft, for the early 2012. And even when he wrote that he was extremely careful throwing a ton of ‘coulds’, ‘mights’, ‘possiblys’ etc. tip-toeing around the subject. Straight from the horse’s mouth:

          “I’ve also mentioned recently that Microsoft may delay the first major Windows Phone 7 update, called Mango, from its planned late 2011 launch until early 2012. Note that I haven’t written that Microsoft *will* delay Mango—only that two sources within the software giant have told me that it’s a possibility.

          So, to reiterate: I’m not saying Mango is coming in 2012, I’m saying that sources told me it *could* be delayed until 2012. And based on this video, Microsoft is saying it’s a possibility as well. In other public statements, the company has stuck to its plan to deliver Mango in 2011.”

          He was far more right than wrong, or at least he used to be while I was following the Microsoft scene, and I’m quite sure he wouldn’t say “I know for a fact that this isn’t happening” unless he really had strong confirmations on that issue.

          • Janne

            What are you saying, there is room for shades of gray in the black and white world of the Windows Phone MNB hater? Isn’t the world a yes or no place, fact or no fact? ;)

            Yes, world is full of shades of gray. Like I keep telling people here. I for one can appreciate what he said and the fact that he did not claim it, he just reported what he heard and gave it some kind of “odds” best he could.

      • http://stubborndev.wordpress.com Oslik

        Good WMPU’s analysis of Thurrott’s claims:

        http://wmpoweruser.com/paul-thurrott-puts-his-credibility-on-the-line-regarding-windows-phone-8-upgrade/

        As a developer I just cannot imagine how Microsoft could ask of me to develop in a new API, not supported by Lumia 900 and Lumia 610. Both these handhelds will definitelly be still produced after Apollo!

    • incognito

      P.S. The first point is still valid – Microsoft easily threw away all the mind share of Windows Mobile that, at the time, was more than three times the number of WP users. They have enough cash in their coffers to push it with no regards of those couple of million of ‘suckers’ that jumped on the WP7 bandwagon…

      • mdev

        The beta-testers :)

    • Ebon & Unicorn N9s

      From what I heard, current WP7.x devices won’t get the full WP8 experience as it is being designed & developed with the Qualcomm MSM8960 based hardware. But what I heard is that they’ll get an update with some aspects of WP8 and ability to run the richer apps developed for WP8 be able to run on them. This info is from MS marketing people during the discussion on developing a Metro-based app for Win8 and WP.

    • migo

      ICS runs very well on Dual Core, as opposed to Gingerbread. While technically, yes, it has lost its advantage over Android, that’s not because WP8 would be laggy, it would be because Android has finally become snappy.

  • Rajiv

    only 14 likes in 11 hours, even common man gets more likes than that and he is a Microsoft official (oops but he is from WP division, well explains it)

    • migo

      He’s not the real Joe Belfiore anyway.

  • Omennollea

    Just great! So there will be 3 different Windowses for mobiles and all together on 0.5% market, and not incompatible one with the other. Egon, this plan can not be not succeeded! This is well known from the past that new Microsoft system enforce to buy a new hardware for unreasonable cash. I don’t buy it totally. Perhaps I will buy some Symbians to have spare mobiles? Who cares about patching and updating mobile again and again? This is only a kind of crazy party for some rare computer maniacs, but not for normal customer. Now it is obvious for me why Windows and Lumias are so unpopular and why Nokia stocks are so cheap. No perspectives for growth. Get back to reality please.

    • migo

      Wrong, if the switch to MinWin happens for Windows Phone 8, it means that Windows Phone 8 = Windows RT = Windows 8 Metro, which means a platform at least 100 million people will be using by mid-2013 and could easily exceed iOS by 2014 and Android by 2015. That doesn’t mean more Windows Phones will be sold than iPhones or Androids, it just means from a development perspective, it’s less work to make an app designed for Windows 8, and therefore already touch enabled, also work with the smaller resolution and screen size of a phone than it is to port it to either iOS or Android.

      It kind of sucks for current WP7.5 users, but with already over 70,000 apps, and likely over 100,000 by the time WP8 hits, it’s not terrible either. More like buying a first gen iPod touch.

  • mdev

    Well, just when Nokia needed some good news…

  • Nagol

    So much for all the fragmentation bullshit they claimed they won’t have.

    • migo

      They don’t have any. My girlfriend (non-techie) has said that she really likes that even though her phone is a Dell and mine is a Nokia, my phone works exactly the same way as hers, and any app I have, she can also run (and vice versa).

      That’s even better than iOS, where some apps she can run, I can’t (mine is a 2nd gen, hers is a 3rd gen iPod touch). 1 year apart and iOS devices already have slight fragmentation, 1 year apart and Windows Phones have much smaller. The only fragmentation you get is apps that use the acceleromoter might not work as well on older phones, and apps that use the front facing camera obviously won’t work either. No case where a game works on one phone but not the other because an Adreno 205 is so much more powerful than an Adreno 200.

      Obviously with Windows Phone 8 there will be some then, but we’re talking more on the level of iOS, with the difference between ARMv6 and ARMv7 architectures, but nothing like what Android is dealing with right now.

  • exiva

    The quoted source off Facebook for Joe Belfiore is not him. Look at post http://www.facebook.com/Joe.Belfiore.WP/posts/268869699802999 from the same fan page.

    Henrik Hamann ‎:D you are not Joe belfiore?
    Friday, September 23, 2011 at 11:34am

    Joe Belfiore no lol,…but i like this man and i was unhappy that he doesn’t have a fan page thet he deserve
    Friday, September 23, 2011 at 11:46am

    • Saul

      Yeah, the article already says it’s not the real Joe.

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