Camera Comparison: Galaxy S3 vs iPhone 4 vs Nokia Lumia 800 vs Nokia 808 Pureview vs NEX-5C
The Nokia 808 PureView goes up against the Samsung Galaxy S3, iPhone 4 (not S?), L800, and a mirrorless interchangeable camera, the Sony NEX-5C.
In low light, the Nokia 808 PureView can get help from the huge sensor as well as oversampling. Looking at the shots of the waves, the iPhone 4 looks terrible (4S I would expect to be much better), but most surprising is how awful the new SGS3 performs -especially given that Samsung kept bigging up all the new camera ‘features’. I did not have the chance to test out extreme low light in 808 myself. I had it for one day and even though I had use of it up to the evening, during summer there is still very much light late at night in Helsinki. Sometimes the colours from the 808 look a little tame whilst others seem super vivid. This seems to be more of the nature of the auto-white balance more than anything (I find at times, the 808 appears to lose that warmth that’s evident even with my own eyes – I’ll need more testing than one day to make up my mind on that though).
Dynamic range of the 808 certainly impresses me. Here and in my own testing, I’m really surprised how without HDR it can capture fairly even exposure – nothing is too dark or too light.
Source: http://www.ifanr.com/96071
Cheers TYCHO for the tip!
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Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.comSubscribe
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- Camera shoot-out met de Lumia 800 > WP7.nl | June 8, 2012
- Camera Comparison: Galaxy S3 vs iPhone 4 vs Nokia Lumia 800 vs … | BlackOps | June 15, 2012
how do you find low resolution display of 808 as compared to Lumia 800/900? 360 x 640 on 4″ doesn’t sound decent to me
I wasn’t able to try the browser as I couldn’t get it to connect to the WiFi. Normally reading text is where it matters most imo. Pictures a little less so.
It’s a very vivid and beautiful clear black amoled display otherwise. It’s the nicest display on a Symbian phone that’s for sure.
Jay, the iphone 4s should perform closely to the s3. They share the same Sony bsi sensor.
Are you kidding? In the old days we had 640×480 on what, 15′ displays?
Personally i don’t see the point with 1080×1080 on 4 inch displays.
And the text used to be green on black! Ow, my hernia!!
Indeed. Reading and typing this on an n8 with opera mini, wished the screen is larger so the text is larger. Don’t really need more resolution. Must be getting old :/
Looking at the other pics, the 808 was the clear winner, but ip4s did reasonably well also. Disappointed with 800..would the 900 have done better?
I’ve been quite happy with the camera on my Lumia 800.
http://flic.kr/p/ccqQuA
Smoked by a Windows Phone user…
“would the 900 have done better?”
No, same sensor, same software = crap. The same with N9, allthough N9 is marginally better.
Actually the statement is incorrect. The 900 produces visibly better pictures than the 800. Software optimisations in the 900 is different.
Neither the 900 or 800 or N9 are of the Nokia standard I have come to expect after the N8 though.
Thought they already got the same level software. Too bad, but good in the sense that the improvements probably come to Lumia 800 also at some point.
Eh? Last I heard they had the same optimisations now…
And the last comparo between the 800/N9, the N9 came out on top overall, “just”.
Even if the optimisations are still exclusively 900…
I doubt they’d be enough to make them notably “better” than the N9.
It’s iPhone 4 not 4S
the NEX is better :/
actually it depends on the picture but it seems that the sony still edges out but at times the 808 is better
would really need a proper comparison as these shots were all done from different angles etc
Colour balance looks out of whack on the NEX, its definitely too warm. One thing is for sure – its not obviously better. Looking closely I think the 808 betters the NEX on dynamic range.
Its interesting – I was considering getting a new body (instead of the 808), and was considering one of the SLT based Sony DSLRs – same sensors as the NEX. But judging from this comparison I’d get similar results from the 808, so may as well keep my old DSLR and continue with the 808 plans.
most of the pictures seem to have more clarity from the NEX
and there seems to be more dr in the foliage beach shot and night cityscape
Not consistently more clarity, overall the results appear to be very, very good – the 808 can give a bridge camera a run for its money.
yeah that’s true
“the NEX is better”
It isn’t really a surprise as NEX has APS-C sized sensor which is still (a lot) bigger than 1/1.2″ sensor in 808. In that light 808 does really well. Also in good light pureview is not really needed so if you wanted to have sharp images you could just take full res images. Also for the comparison, 808 could have taken 2MPix images (were they 8MPix?) as the images were downsampled for the web anyway. There would have been even less noise then.
right of course the sensor for some reason that didnt come to me lol i was thinking the sony had a smallish sensor
No,it is not galaxy S3 but Galaxy nexus
All the worst photos are produced by 808! Neither the expected details nor the color saturation. It’s sad to see 41MP sensor, carl zeiss optics and pureview technology loosing to 8 MP sensor and ordinary optics..
If the pics are truly taken by 808 then the last symbian device failed to impress.
Even you would be hard pressed to say that in public with a straight face.
just go to the source link provided by Jay and see it yourself…that’s easy..
yeah that was the first thing i did and all these other camera phones dont compare
its a shootout between the NEK and 808 really and the NEK seems to edge out more times than not
Are we looking at the same pictures? Overall the 808 is equal to the NEX – which is a massive achievement.
The other phones, 5MP Galaxy Nexus, 5MP iPhone 4 not 4s and the Lumia 800(the only thing decent in it’s camera are the lenses) are a joke to be compared with 808. Even thoug 808 can do a little better it’s a matter of glasses/googles if those photos don’t look good enough.
The problem is: How can you compare different photos if the one who has taken it apparently has no clue of how to take a good photo?
Probably all these images were taken in auto-mode and under really difficult lighting conditions. I guess people who bought an N8 and / or plan to buy an 808 know why they will afford it: Lots of manual options, a hardware and software that is PRINCIPALLY able to take good photos ++
If the 808 offers nearly as good or even better possibilities as the N8 does, this is an technological milestone. Everyone who wants to take photos in auto-mode and whose general demand is to take photos that show the family or the dog ++ will be fine with nearly any smartphone available.
So let’s wait and see if a talented photographer comes up with 808 photos that take full advantage of the sensor and the lens. (Nokia is still so bad in marketing.)
I am very pleased with the N8 capabilities: These two images were taken some weeks ago, post processing via Apple Aperture: http://twitpic.com/91igsw + http://twitpic.com/91jtbc
If the 808 is nearly as good I will probably buy it although the video quality appears to be far below my expectations. The OS is not of great importance to me because every device will be thrown away one day but the photos and video you’ve taken with ‘em remain.
“The problem is: How can you compare different photos if the one who has taken it apparently has no clue of how to take a good photo?”
Actually, that’s JUST the comparison most people need, inasmuch as most people are complete amateurs in the photo department… We need to see how these cameras compare at completely auto settings in low-light conditions, as that’s how 75% of all pics are snapped.
Sure, the 808 caters to a more experienced crowd, but it’s still nice to see how it fares under “normal” conditions, particularly if Nokia is planning on porting the tech to their future Lumias…
Unrelated to topic, don’t know where to post it.
Late I having these pop ads on nokiablog, mobprice something its a nuance. Anybody else having the same problem?
Adblock. That is all.
i downloaded one of the nightshot taken by 808 and i don’t know why but when i looked at the properties it was indicated that it has been photoshoped i don’t know why they have to do that and also i don’t know if the site compresses the pictures coz i find them not that good in quality
It’s just to add watermark if I read correctly.
oh, so that’s the reason… i actually didn’t read it… haha… but still i don’t find the pureview there, a lot of noise and even in first zoom we can see the poor quality… but maybe their up to the color not the zoom in thing…
ok never mind this comment… it’s just now that i read and looked at other pictures(other than 808 and nex) to compare and now i see the big diffrence… hehe… but it looks like nex is kinda better…
It’s a shame for Sony if Nex-5 wasn’t better as it’s a dedicated system-camera.
Also keep in consideration that the
NEX-5 + standard kit lens 18-55mm costs about the same as
808 Pureview, about 600 euro
So you pay the same amount of money and you get a a smartphone with similar imaging and full HD filming + a free global satnav + outstanding audio recording device + cellphone with full 2 way callrecording + portable email, web & SNS + pocketlamp + local USB/BT syncable agenda, a few games + portable Media player with Dolby headphones and HDMI-out and then some…
I think it’s a done deal. Show me where I deposit my money
I think it’s it’s sone deal
i downloaded one of the nightshot taken by 808 and i don’t know why but when i looked at the properties it was indicated that it has been photoshoped i don’t know why they have to do that and also i don’t know if the site compresses the pictures coz i find them not that good in quality…
Though the photos are uploaded at 3.3Mp they are not taken at that resolution but at higher resolution. He says that the pics are downsized. I still think he ddnt even employ Pureview and if yes then only at 8Mp and not 5Mp mode.
Hello Jay,
you wrote “…but most surprising is how awful the new SGS3 performs”.
That’s only on the first look.
I’ve looked into the EXIF and found out that every SG3 picture is made with ISO800 even in bright light !
And for ISO800 they are not bad.
Best regards
If you do a google translate on the source, you’ll find some interesting snippets – the guy says that there’s the ability to modify shutter speed, and also all the photos taken were using auto mode.
In summary after going through the entire batch of photos (it’s quite a large number of them):
Lumia 800 – Yuck. Very disappointing and blurry. I stopped looking at its photos halfway through because it was consistently bad.
Galaxy S3 – Disgusting quality. At a point I was viewing the S3 photos not to see how good they compared to the rest, but how bad it could make things look.
Galaxy Nexus – Not too bad actually. Colour is a bit oversaturated but the details at least for landscape mode is pretty good for the 5mpx shooter.
iPhone 4 – Not bad at all. It’s a pretty decent shooter save for the dark situations and aggressive sharpening/colour saturation.
808 – Disappointing at least on the auto mode. Described below.
NEX-5 – Good to know that it can at least do decent 5 mpx photos. It sets the benchmark for the other phones. Of course this is a micro-4/3s camera which is expected to output such quality anyway.
For quite a number of the 808 photos, there seems to be a blue haze over the entire scene, making things look really dull and/or gloomy. This is probably due to the auto colour correction going wonky in direct sunlight. Perhaps the ND filter might also be part of the problem. I hope this is only limited to the auto mode though. There were some pictures where there’s little difference from the NEX quality, but overall this is lower than what I expected from the 808. Strange how the previous photos taken by others seems so much clearer.
please read my comment above.
all SG3 photos are made with ISO800 !
The 808 wasn’t disappointing, it was pretty close to the NEX-5, and on some occasions possibly bettered it.
Google translate does make an entertaining read.
The NEX was good overall except in the night scenes where all the cameras were struggling – it was able to retain quite a natural, vivid colour. However, I can’t agree with you on the 808, there’s just too much blue in so many of the pictures, not to mention that strange haze.
I’ll agree with you on the point that it did come quite close to the NEX in certain pictures, but the NEX was certainly able to hold its ground in terms of clarity.
At least the 808 allows for a narrow DOF than the iPhone and its Galaxy buddies, but I think there’s still much room for improvement. Perhaps it’s just auto mode.
im really not convinced with the pictures taken from the 808 pureview. have a look at the link below, this guy got his 808 pureview yesterday and took some fab pictures from different MP settings,..
http://pureviewclub.com/2012/1266
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/sets/72157630078657646/
and they jst look wow, the one on the chines website dont seem true, unless i think they have been taken by the prototype.. or a test 808, please see how amassing the pictures are
A phone with not so exciting hardware…a low resolution screen…a thick waistline…the only selling point is a 41 MP sensor and pureview technology…but neither the huge sensor nor the technology working as expected…god knows what happened to those algorithms they were shouting about during MWC…who on this earth can explain the reason behind this delay and change in expected release dates…4 months of waiting…the results are dissapointing…very sad…
Honestly though the previous photos that were taken by others were much better. I’ve got no idea why it’s taken such a dip this time round.
… did you ever see such clear pictures from a phone?
Please compare the low light pictures.
I would say great
But on the other points I agree.
But the point is that a big sensor + good optic need more space.
I don’t understand why there is no Android phone that matches at least the N8 picture quality.
not disappointing have a look at his website (link below) and the pictures he took with his 808 pureview.. ul believe hw ‘WOW’ they are:
http://pureviewclub.com/2012/1266
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/sets/72157630078657646/
the one from Chinese website are fake, or taken with a test 808/ in a bad setting..
I honestly hope to see these pics are fake. 808 is a well equipped camera-phone and I am(in fact we all) expecting some great results from it. Lets hope to see some nice shots that will blow away these pics from http://www.ifanr.com/96071.
Jay, can you please post some better pics.
Actually I’m expecting a lot from the full res shots from the 808, as that’s the limiting factor for all the pureview shots. I hope that the first few shots of the scenery are blurry from either the wind or the shooter’s hands because the full res shot is pretty bad. It seems like the he might not have used the hyperfocal mode, or it’s plain shakiness.
Yes I have seen. My old Nokia X6 takes better snap than this 808 snaps. I am not saying 808 is a bad phone. But, if these pics are taken by 808 then the results are disappointing and so the 808.
Nothing wrong with Android. It’s only Nokia that has the expertise in camera technology. Android can have an awesome camera when the OEMs can manufacture one.
Even the highest end DSLR can take bad shots.
I pity you if your criteria for selecting a phone is how “exciting” the hardware is. Especially when I get the impression that to you the synonym for “exciting” means how large and sharp the screen is and core count and the speed of the CPU.
To me exciting means something that hasn’t been done before and something that enables me to do things weren’t possible before. You know things like pentaband 3G radios, GSM, P&S equivalent or better camera and (all) other earlier Nokia innovations all in one package.
I think someone from Nokia can explain this delay, but I think they have never explained any delays anyway. A delay of one month the most is still quite small, especially when it was released 3 months before the “promised” release.
Nokia is notorious with the delays. The N8 was released 6 months late and with Symbian^3 lacking too many features. The 808 was promised for may but Nokia didn’t deliver.
The only thing special with the 808 is the camera. All the rest is low end or low mid end for smartphones.
What is wrong with you????
EVERY article you’re seeking to get a rise out of people.
I swear, EVERY article it’s pure trolling.
Just enjoy in Nokia’s success, whatever little bits there are.
What are you talking about? I have stated several times that Nokia seems to be getting some nice traction with the Windows Phone. That’s very good news for Nokia. I hope everyone enjoys that.
Maybe you just don’t like it when someone talks about what really happened with the Symbian? Losing market share years in a row. Just see the charts.
Let’s hope they succeed with the Windows Phone.
For you it’s about constantly trying to find every single negative angle when it comes to S^3/Maemo/MeeGo just to pump-up Windows Phone.
My point was they still have nice characteristics which even the hardest-core WP fanboys would (& do) concede would be nice to have.
(doubtfully you though, you dont seem to know much about all three, but that doesn’t stop you)
Sure they don’t have a future any more, but that doesn’t mean you have to continually try to make sure they’re fully buried, just because you’re afraid they pose some kind of existential threat.
Take a deep breathe, let it go man, stop seeking to tweak history just because some naysayers have pushed your buttons.
You have your way already, WP-only for top-to-mid with 100% focus, hell maybe even indefinitely.
You should be rubbing your hands with glee & enjoying the ride, assuming it gets really exciting.
Funny. I had the same thought about you.
I don’t understand how you want forget everything good I gave said about the 808. Maybe I’ll say some of it again.
The 808 is a nice camera and lot’s of people will be considering to buy one. Maybe not to be used as a phone but it’s still revenue if Nokia sells those for any purpose.
It’s great news for Nokia if people consider 808′s camera so good they will replace some compacts with that one.
Except that you’re still subtly trying to suggest it’s mostly crap.
The reality is the UX is vastly improved now, & the built-in utility is still far more than WP7x.
It’s true that it’s ecosystem hasn’t been thriving as much as WP’s, & Nokia consciously decided not to aggressively address that ages ago now.
Detailed debates can be had as-to-whether that was necessary or not, but that fact is it’s happened.*
Still, for many avg. users, what exists in that ecosystem may be more than enough.
So no, it’s not just the camera, it can also be appealing for other reasons for users.
That doesn’t have to re-ignite the debate that Symbian still needs to exist yadda yadda.
We know the long gestation & time it had to prove itself, more than enough.
It did get to a point where it was more manageable, but sadly that was too late in the game.
Just because it’s pretty good now, doesn’t mean you have to constantly talk-it-down because you’re afraid it’ll be seen as credible alternative.
There’s no going back in that direction, we’ve travelled too far on the WP ship now.
Most users get that, but they also get that Symbian -in it’s latest form- is very decent.
Stop trying to put it & Maemo/MeeGo down because of your own insecurities.
*I tended to agree it was, but only just.
correction:
Detailed debates about whether that was necessary can be had, but the fact is it’s happened.
Sure, Symbian is not as good as the competition what it comes to having modern features, applications and the most important, good reputation. Just see what kind of features the SGS3 has. Symbian is lacking those.
Some people may find the Symbian appealing, but so what? Some people may like the Windows Phone better. Some people even think a Symbian from 2002 is a great piece of software. Symbian was losing market share years before the burning platform memo and that’s because it has a bad reputation.
The 808 has a great camera and that’s it. Without that camera, who would be interested about it? Really? It’s also the reason why some people can’t get it to replace a mobile phone. The device is huge. It’s as thick as a modern laptop, almost 3/4″.
However it can be bought to be used as a camera. Now you may think that’s a problem but it’s still revenue.
Please relax and enjoy your life.
S^3 Belle+ has way more features & utility built-in than WP7x.
There’s LOTS of info. out there which corroborates that, including articles & comments @MNB.
The last insightful MNB article was just before you started posting regularly IIRC.
Plus it’s “clear as day” if you have two or more devices with the latest version of both OS’s.
To WP7x’s credit, it’s smaller set of features are usually nicely implemented.
Plus it has a handful of excellent features that don’t exist in S^3.
But overall there’s no Qn that S^3 has more features & utility built-in.
S^3 Belle+ compares pretty well to Android 4.0…
However if I was forced to chose only one, I’d pick Android or iOS.
Luckily I don’t have to chose, I get to play with & enjoy them all.
My point seems to have gone over your head once again.
I’m not sure what’s wrong with you…
I guess it’s just some innate personality trait.
Yeah, SGS3 has those modern features Symbian is lacking.
From a hw perspective sure, from a built-in sw one, not so much.
It depends on the user, avg. one is not likely to notice much of a difference at all.
Power user is more likely to get an idea of some things they’re missing.
Typical user could end-up being quite happy with either as their daily driver.
Sure, you can claim those nice new modern features are useless for an average user. Maybe that’s because you can’t find those from Symbian.
You mean those countless features that WP7x doesn’t have compared to Maemo6x/S^3 let alone Android?
Never so much as a whisper of criticism from you there.
And yet you’re supposedly totally impartial…
Yep, something wrong with you, as originally highlighted.
Define high end. I define you requirements to run OS and applications effectively. It’s stupid (does it say something about you?) to compare device hardware running different software.
N8 was not released 6 months late, it was in shops 5 months after it was announced. They did not actually say anything about when that would even be so it was never late as no date was ever announced. E7 was late as they said it would be Christmas, but it was February.
It’s more or less the same for 808, they said it would be May, but it was never any more official than a sales reps talk. Of course I would have been much hppier if it was on may though.
Just see the features SGS3 has. That’s high end.
Sure, everyone just made it up the 808 was supposed to get a may release and Nokia was not late.
The biggest problem here is that your reply embodies the explanation as to why the rest of us can’t get an APPROXIMATE release date; if Nokia complied to our wishes, and got delayed by any margin, anally hysterical peeps like you will make them regret it in an instant!
Enough with the necro-ing, very poor nettiquette.
808 will only win in camera not in OS
…and for some, that’s only what matters.
Thank you for your eloquent post, would youcare to expand on that or do you have to get ready to go to school instead?
That was @ SSs
Would you be so kind to have a look at photos made purely only with Nokia N9? http://500px.com/IIDave?page=1 I left it without comment to avoid any antagonsms. Let those photos speak for themselfs and the Nokia N9. I think this is fair.
Those are some really nice shots. It’s quite hard to imagine that it’s from the N9. But then again I’m the sort to pixel peep haha. It’d be amazing if the blown up picture accompanying all the photos are actually 100% zooms.
You can believe it – ALL photos are from the N9 only. It is also written there, in upper right corner.
N9 is better with macro, some say even better then N8.
those are some fantastic pictures
808 pictures are not disappointing its jst how the pictures are , im really not convinced the pictures in the website are the pictures taken from the 808 pureview. have a look at the link below, this guy got his 808 pureview yesterday and took some fab pictures from different MP settings,..
http://pureviewclub.com/2012/1266
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/sets/72157630078657646/
and they jst look wow, the one on the chines website dont seem true, unless i think they have been taken by the prototype.. or a test 808, please see how amassing the pictures are
I think sttings are default, and Nokia set sometimes very strange defaults… Perhaps good for Finland but nowhere else…
the 808 pics were quite good but as usual the auto settings arent always the best choice
Pictures taken with 808
@34mp- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/7165499541/in/set-72157630078657646/
@5m- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/7165501175/in/set-72157630078657646
@8mp- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/7350711586/in/set-72157630078657646/
@2mp max Zoom- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/7350713432/in/set-72157630078657646
view all pictures- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pureviewclub/sets/72157630078657646/
pureviewclub.com/2012/1209 for first impression
808 got absolutely smoked by the NEX.
And iPhone 4 gave comparable and “good enough” results compared to 808.
808 is definitely not worth the money.
I’m interested in 808 vs N8 comparison, I bet there isn’t going to be much of a difference.
41MP PureView is a marketing gimmick.
Or this test wasn’t very succesfull. It wouldn’t be the first biased camera test in the world either.
I have seen MUCH better 808 examples than these.
Waiting to see more, from numerous sources. Perhaps even ones, that dares to touch the settings too.
Don’t worry, I’ve take a look of the photos on the website, from time to time the 808 Photos can look pale, less “vivids” than the others (It looks like the manufacturers “enhaced” the colors) but the 808 take a lot of more fine details, those details that make you print a photo.
I don’t know it they try to make to look the 808 like crap or just like it isn’t the thing that Nokia promise, but this remind me the photos of Engadget vs Gizmondo, one take crappy photos, the other show you the something close to the real thing.
You get smoked by most of the users on here every time you you troll with posts like that. LOL
Mmm… The photos where taken on pureview mode or at full res???
Because you will see the best from the device only on PV mode.
And you’ll get 15MB pictures.
Wrong again, as usual. PureView pictures @ 5MP is around 1-2Mb. Full resolution pictures range from 7-15Mb.
Get an education. Read.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/27/nokia-808-pureview-first-sample-shots-feast-your-eyes/
http://mashable.com/2012/02/27/nokia-808-pureview-photos/
Not. Pureview pictures aren’t even close to the full res, so how could they take up the same space? Not to mention that the full res photos are only topping out at 11-12MB.
I’m not really buggered by how much space a photo’s going to take, unless it’s 30MB. If you’re only going to get one chance to take a shot (like on holidays) for something really special, I think it’s worth a small sacrifice in storage space. Anyway, that being said, the 808 has 16GB internal storage capacity and 32GB cards are getting cheaper over time.
Not to mention USB On-The-Go, more affordable USB Flash Drives.
Go to there http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/flow/item/14991_Pure_Husky.php
(just download the damn pic)
and judget yourself… Pure Husky, Purelove
I am pretty(absolutely) certain, that this snapper didn’t quite understand the pureview concept, and is still cursed with the belief that the amount of Megapixels mean something and thusly didn’t even try the phones name-feature.
Its the size of the pixels that mean something, and in this case its achieved with the Pureview mode. Always use the Pureview.
WOW…
is that iPhone 4 or 4S!! In the EXIF-date it’s written iPhone4!!
But anyway definately winner is 808
Actually, what does it tell about the quality of the camera if you have to debate if the pictures are taken with the 808 or not.
???
you actually didn’t saw the pics!?!?
It says nothing about the camera.
It might say something about the pictures, IF they HAVE to be debated, but they don’t; it’s just that some people feel a NEED to debate them…
Lord US = Fail.
@Lordosis and @Choderror
lol
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