Nokia Sales “Exceeded Expectations” With 86.3 Million Total Units; 4.4 Million Lumias, 9.3 Million Ashas

| January 10, 2013 | 449 Replies

Nokia seem to be quite happy with their latest sales figures, seeing how they released some figures before their quarterly earning report. Nokia claims to have delivered “underlying profitability and that sales unit delivered better-than-expected results,

We are pleased that Q4 2012 was a solid quarter where we exceeded expectations and delivered underlying profitability in Devices & Services and record underlying profitability in Nokia Siemens Networks,” Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said today in a statement. “We focused on our priorities and as a result we sold a total of 14 million Asha smartphones and Lumia smartphones while managing our costs efficiently, and Nokia Siemens Networks delivered yet another very good quarter.

Nokia estimates the net sales in Devices & Services business to be 3.9 billion euros ($5.1 billion). I had my finger on 7 Million lumias for the quarter, so this is a bit of a letdown to me, but if this means that the next quarter won’t be in the red then I’m happy.

taking a look into the numbers the total sales of Asha devices were 9.3 Million which is quite impressive, while smartphone sales were 6.6 Million 4.4 of which were Lumias, leaving 2.2 Million for the what Symbian slaes occured besides the super popular Asha smartphones the 308 & 309 (I think the 311 as well?)

- Mobile Phones net sales of approximately EUR 2.5 billion, with total volumes of 79.6 million units of which 9.3 million units were Asha full touch smartphones.
- Smart Devices net sales of approximately EUR 1.2 billion, with total volumes of 6.6 million units of which 4.4 million units were Nokia Lumia smartphones.

However Nokia have forecast that their profits for next quarter (Q1 2013) will be negative 2% stating the cause as:

“seasonality and competitive environment are expected to have a negative impact on the first quarter 2013 underlying profitability for Devices & Services, compared to the fourth quarter 2012.”

The full quarterly earning is set to be released on January 24th; but this pretty much answers any questions we had.

Edit:

Nokia’s Stocks seem to have jumped after this announcement gaining 17% in pre-market trades:

Via/Source

 

Tags:

Category: Lumia, MeeGo, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

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Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Noki

    tss tss tss. what a win 4.4 Million wow on average selling 550.000 phones per Lumia wow… Give up on WP it never going any thing other than a money synk.

    For the astroturfers seams like the big win was that Tomi got is numbers wrong… Heeheheheh…

    Really how can any one see this number positive during the xmas season, with 8 different terminals on the market selling world wide, is beyond my comprehension. Ashas saving the day along with feature phones…Lumias still a massive money synk.

    The numbers might be slightly positive (still losing money right?) for nokia as a company but for WP-Lumia??? its just sad.

    I have another forecast for Q1 0 Lumia sales this way Nokia cant fail to impresses positively. WP astroturfers are sad ….. 4.4 a win????

    • Oleg Derevenetz

      What upsets me most, instead of accepting the facts – “WP is rubbish, WP isn’t selling well, Nokia doesn’t do well, Elop should be fired and quartered for what he has done with the company over the past two years” they are busy inventing excuses – “it’s all previous management/OPK fault” (gosh, it was more than two years ago!), “Meego would not be better” (plain fabricated speculation), “let’s wait for [(next quarter)|(windows phone (8|9))|(new amazing WP device with DirtyHear technology)]” (there is no point even in commenting this endless nonsense)… And every quarter there are always shitloads of people with all the same excuses.

      • Noki

        +++++10 000

      • hosny santos

        +10000, noika is going down and Flop is the king of the hill, is time for Plan B?// meego, jolla, and to burn Flop, now where is Jane, with his big mouth/ he needs came and figth for his Flop , when Nokia is die,roks tommi

    • spacemodel

      Yep, 4.4 million in the most interesting quarter is just bad, no if or when, just bad.

      WP7 had no traction and with WP8 it is the same song again, this is it, 4-5 million per quarter is the limit for WP, the mobile world have already decided, it’s iOS or Android all the way.

      Of course there’s always room for some niche product like WP but posters who think WP will ever reach a double digit marketshare are just delusive.

      Nokia’s quarter was saved by the Asha’s but, as someone posted before, Asha is Nokia’s last defence line, is losing marketshare on a YoY basis and the prospect of even cheaper and, especially, much better Android’s is not a prospect to look forward to.

      Elop stated in februari 2011 that the transition period from Symbian to WP would be two years and now we are here, from 20 million sold smartphones down to 4.4 million.
      This transition period is an utter failure and there’s not a single sign it will be any better; it’s time for change.

      • ftw

        don’t you know? wp does not sell because symbian sucks its all symbians fault.. symbian is so bad it is preventing wp from selling in other OEM’s like HTC samsung ZTE etc..

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  • ayon1200

    in my opinion it is their beyond expectation bcs its new no games apps compare to android and ios. so they release these set bcs of selling to attract developer. when the developer see good number set sold dey come forward to develop the app. then in mwc they release a perfect which may huge success

  • Marc

    So, basically, 2012Q4 Lumia sales is like Symbian’s 2010Q4 (sales numbers up and market share decline).

    Except, Symbian sold more and had 10x marketshare of Lumias?

    Still, somehow Symbian was called “dead end” and “burning platform”, but WP is a success and need just a little more time (when next month we’ll see new Blackberry devices (and it is a stronger offering than WP (apps and OS itself) in addition to current platforms)?

    How is it possible to still believe in WP success and at the same time make jokes about “Symbian/Nokia religion”???

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

      It’s not a joke when people are talking about Symbian as a religion.

      http://mynokiablog.com/2011/08/21/ari-jaaksi-symbian-religion-biggest-concern-on-maemo-was-not-how-good-it-was-but-how-it-would-affect-symbian/

      Symbian was a religion and it is still a religion.

      The difference between WP and Symbian? WP costs less. It’s highly unlikely Nokia would have been able to sell 15 million Symbian phones in Q4 2012.

      Using Symbian today would result enormous losses. Nokia would die with Symbian. It was a road to destruction. Symbian development took huge resources and it was extremely inefficient.

      MeeGo? Extremely few applications from Symbian and no proof whatsoever it would have succeeded.

      • Oleg Derevenetz

        “MeeGo? Extremely few applications from Symbian”

        Windows Phone? No applications at all (at least at the very start). Sentences like this can be said for almost all new platforms, but some at least trying to deal with it – for example, BB10 have built-in Android runtime support (as well as native runtime, of course) to let app base grow faster. There is no reason why this couldn’t be done for Meego (except Meego closure, of course). Windows Phone? No chance to have something like this, but tons of useless restrictions instead.

        “and no proof whatsoever it would have succeeded”

        Any proofs for Windows Phone success? Currently I see literally NONE.

        Windows Phone sectarians are so funny.

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Android compatibility. Really nice way to kill most of native software development for the platform.

          It’s a nice way of turning OS into some kind of Android wannabe without the need for native applications.

          WP seems to have lots of application at the moment. No reason to believe MeeGo would have that good availability of applications. Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo. Sorry.

          • Oleg Derevenetz

            “Android compatibility. Really nice way to kill most of native software development for the platform.”

            Let’s see. In any case, users will be benefited by this for sure. Unlike WP users.

            “No reason to believe MeeGo would have that good availability of applications.”

            Just plain speculation. BTW, I still can’t see any “good availability” of applications on WP, on the contrary, developers are abandoning it, like here:

            http://www.wpcentral.com/developers-parcel-tracker-abandoned-windows-phone-due-no-revenue

            or here:

            http://www.wpcentral.com/carbon-windows-phone-leaving-android-not-looking-back

            Just google by “developers abandon Windows Phone”. Sorry.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Yes, that remains to be seen.

              Speculation, yes. No proof that MeeGo would have sold any better compared to WP. Still it’s cheaper to use WP.

              I see, you seem to think WP has no applications while MeeGo was destined to be a success with huge amount of applications.

              You are strong in your faith.

              • Oleg Derevenetz

                “No proof that MeeGo would have sold any better compared to WP.”

                No proof of reverse though. In fact “MeeGo wouldn’t sell, if it had a real chance” is just a speculation, while “WP doesn’t sell” is a fait accompli. You are trying to fight against facts just with speculations like “Meego would not be better”. Good luck with that.

                “You are strong in your faith.”

                Not as strong as you though :)

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  I’m not claiming that WP is selling well.

                  Nokia got some nice growth, that’s true.

                  The problem is that Nokia didn’t kill Symbian early enough.

                  The problem was that there can be only one real OS for Nokia. First it was Symbian, then MeeGo and now WP.

                  Lots of problems. Strange.

                  And people still think Nokia was winning with these cards?

                  Well. They have Asha and it’s selling pretty well. Almost same ASP as low end Symbian.

          • Oleg Derevenetz

            “Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo. Sorry.”

            BTW. Are you developer? Can you read code at least? If yes, then there is food for thought for you. Let’s look on sources of real Qt-based Symbian/Meego app, that is available at Nokia Store:

            http://sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/

            This app can be built for Symbian and for Meego simultaneously. Code base of C++/Qt classes is fully shared among them. The only difference is QML part, here it is for Symbian:

            http://sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/qml/photocam3d/Symbian/

            and here for Meego:

            http://sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/qml/photocam3d/Meego/

            Can you point out more than five differences between them (apart from “import com.nokia.meego 1.0″ instead of “import com.nokia.symbian 1.0″)? Strongly doubt it. How you can say that “Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo”? I’m a professional developer, and I’m saying you – it was MOSTLY READY. Sorry. By the way, you can compare these sources with sources of BB10 port of the same app (that is fully working as well and is ready to publish at BB AppWorld in a short time):

            http://sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtCascades/PhotoCam3D/

            That’s what called “hardly ready for some real compatibility”.

          • Oleg Derevenetz

            “Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo. Sorry.”

            BTW. Are you developer? Can you read code at least? If yes, then there is food for thought for you. Let’s look on sources of real Qt-based Symbian/Meego app, that is available at Nokia Store:

            sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/

            This app can be built for Symbian and for Meego simultaneously. Code base of C++/Qt classes is fully shared among them. The only difference is QML part, here it is for Symbian:

            sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/qml/photocam3d/Symbian/

            and here for Meego:

            sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtQuick/photocam3d/qml/photocam3d/Meego/

            Can you point out more than five differences between them (apart from “import com.nokia.meego 1.0″ instead of “import com.nokia.symbian 1.0″)? Strongly doubt it. How you can say that “Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo”? I’m a professional developer, and I’m saying you – it was MOSTLY READY. Sorry. By the way, you can compare these sources with sources of BB10 port of the same app (that is fully working as well and is ready to publish at BB AppWorld in a short time):

            sourceforge.net/p/photo3d/code/12/tree/trunk/QtCascades/PhotoCam3D/

            That’s what called “hardly ready for some real compatibility”.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              So, that is based on Qt available in early 2011?

              Code seems to be pretty clean. And you have an… interesting way of handling possible errors in that application.

              It’s also proving that Symbian’s Qt had no bugs?

              • Oleg Derevenetz

                “So, that is based on Qt available in early 2011?”

                As far as I remember, development of this particular app was started in the end of 2011 (I lost some part of history while moving sources to SourceForge SVN). But there are was also projects started in the summer of 2011. So, yes, it’s based on Qt from 2011.

                “It’s also proving that Symbian’s Qt had no bugs?”

                Everything have bugs, even WP:

                http://mynokiablog.com/2013/01/11/my-issues-with-windows-phone-8-one-month-on/

                But that’s not a reason to say “Qt for Symbian was hardly ready for some real compatibility between Symbian and MeeGo”.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  Yes, but Qt should have been ready in late 2010 or very early 2011. There was very little time left for Symbian.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Wide_Smartphone_Sales_Share.png

                  Symbian started collapsing in 2010. Not because of Elop. It was just no longer competitive.

                  You can’t even notice the strategy change from that chart. Symbian was already crashing so fast that there should have been those Qt applications in late 2010/early 2011 MeeGo was going to ‘inherit’ from Symbian.

                  That’s very good chart and it shows how hopeless the situation was.

                  If developers were supposed to start coding those Qt applications only in 2011, how much there would have been those in late 2011 even if everything would have been going fine? Not too many.

                  And Symbian was still lacking really functional Qt in early 2011. Qt that was supposed to be the solution but it was just too late.

                  • Oleg Derevenetz

                    “If developers were supposed to start coding those Qt applications only in 2011, how much there would have been those in late 2011 even if everything would have been going fine? Not too many.”

                    There was not so many WP apps at that time as well, so which platform would be better in terms of apps, is highly questionable.

                  • kues

                    WP had little apps in late 2010/early 2011- following your logic Android would have been the only reasonable choice for Nokia…

                    Qt was ready in 2010, first integrated SDK (Nokia Qt SDK 1.0) shipped June 23, 2010.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Android was possibly a better choice but Nokia was so arrogant that it was not an option. Just a bit over two years before that Nokia was claiming how Android is not even worth evaluating. And a little over year before that they claimed that iOS was the bigger threat for Nokia.

                      Qt for Symbian was not ready at that time. It was just too buggy. How come it was not possible to get Qt applications to ovi Store before late 2010?

                      Yes, I suppose old school Nokia fans are complaining how WP has too few applications. It’s extremely hard to believe that MeeGo would have more while Symbian was destined to be gone. It was just collapsing.

                    • arts

                      i have no knowledge on this qt thing that was going on.

                      But let me share one end user experience:

                      there was no usable tumblr app, definately no youtube app, and no evernote app during the year 2011, and into the early 2012.

                      These services exist way before the feb 2011 annoucement. People begging for evernote clients date back to 2008-2009. Tumblr is hipster back then, but still pretty popular too. and youtube…. well its youtube.

                      Seems like qt being ready did jacksh!t to end users.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @arts, before Qt era development of Symbian apps was really, REALLY tough thing. Ironically, just a few month after release of Qt SDK and first platform that fully support all Qt SDK features – S^3 (for example, Qt Components package was available only for S^3 and above) it turns out that one of the target platforms was declared a “burning platform” and another was declared DOA. Not many developers (especially developers paid by services) will waste time to develop for Nokia platforms claimed as dead by Nokia CEO.

                      Don’t worry, WP is going the same way – not because Nokia/MS officially announced it dead, but because people see that it’s in fact dead – no sales->no developers. There was some initial enthusiasm and expectations, but now developers run from it like from plague – because they basically can’t get enough money to get a reason to waste time on WP any more.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      And the developers were supposed to start coding for Symbian only in 2011? This seems to be really smart when iOS had true developer support from 2008.

                      How long does it take to make some quality applications for mobile? 6 months? 12 months if it’s complicated and you have to do some studying. Yes, 3 days if you just make some crap.

                      Now the developers were supposed to start in early 2011 or late 2010 while this was happening.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Wide_Smartphone_Sales_Share.png

                      The collapse of Symbian and Elop’s new strategy has no effect on that. Strange. I thought you claimed Elop killed Symbian. How come Feb. 2012 can’t be seen from that chart?

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      “And the developers were supposed to start coding for Symbian only in 2011? This seems to be really smart when iOS had true developer support from 2008.”

                      Don’t get me wrong – while developers had an ability to develop for Symbian long before than for iOS, they got comfortable enough SDK and tools in late 2010, yes. That wasn’t Elop’s fault.

                      “How long does it take to make some quality applications for mobile?”

                      It depends. Large apps, especially games with complicated gameplay and rich art, require months and even may be years, while lightweight tools (for example, a tool that allows extended camera settings, known as Camera Pro) may require a few weeks, and even may be a few days, but I doubt that they will be polished enough in latter case.

                      “Strange. I thought you claimed Elop killed Symbian.”

                      Problem with Elop in fact different. As I already said, instead of gradually getting things better by patiently dealing with internal Nokia management and priority mistakes, and by setting correct tasks to correct developer teams, he just nuked everything, fired all devs and turned Nokia into OEM, besides choosing a wrong 3rd party OS. Now we all see consequences.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      BTW, process of porting an app from one platform to another takes much less time than developing it from scratch, if source and target toolkits have comparable feature sets. For me, porting an Qt Quick app, the development of which from scratch took several weeks, to Windows Phone or BB10 Cascades may took just a few days. BTW, just for clarification – ported app will not be 1:1 rip off original app, but will use appropriate interface solutions from the target platform, of course.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      I remember very well how Qt was supposed to be the tool of the future. I was even helping to evaluate it at some point, maybe late 2009 or early 2010 when Nokia was claiming that the developers can already start the development for the future.

                      In that case the biggest problem was that it was not a proven tech in Symbian. There was no Qt installed on Symbian phones when they were manufactured and it was probable that different versions would cause conflicts.

                      No, that was not any major evaluation.

                      It really hurt Nokia when they were not able to make Qt work on Symbian in 2009. It was almost too late in 2010 and definitely too late in 2011. That’s just because Symbian was collapsing and the ASP was extremely low.

                      If Nokia was able to release fully working Qt in 2009 and a Linux phone in 2010, there would have been some chances for them. 2011 was just too late. Most Symbian phones were low end or extreme low end and the amount of touch screen phones was not that great.

                      I didn’t really evaluate that code so well. That application is a small one and there is nothing wrong with that. I wonder how much work it would have added to the project if there was some robust error handling in that? Or maybe I just missed that part?

                      Making quality applications takes time and even conversions can be tricky if the UI has some special features. Just like MeeGo had. It would be interesting to see Fruit Ninja on MeeGo’s swipe UI.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      “If Nokia was able to release fully working Qt in 2009 and a Linux phone in 2010, there would have been some chances for them.”

                      You are saying it like there was no chances for them at all (other get 3rd party OS, and even in that part they are missed out). I don’t think so.

                      “I wonder how much work it would have added to the project if there was some robust error handling in that? Or maybe I just missed that part?”

                      What do you mean exactly by “robust error handling”? Any examples?

                      “It would be interesting to see Fruit Ninja on MeeGo’s swipe UI.”

                      I see no problem with that. Swipe behaviour can be turned on and off in any time (in QML, for example – by accessing screen.allowSwipe property), and may be turned off while you playing, but turned back on while you in menu or game paused.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Just curious what will happen if output_image.setPixel fails for some reason? Or something else like that. Yes. Probably nothing serious.

                      There are just not too may Qt try catch phrases there. Well, just forget it.

                      Apple ruled in high end and Samsung took the rest from there. In the past high end has been the key for conquering the market. Now Nokia was playing this game with a very low ASP and that ASP was coming down all the time at the same time when Apple was not dropping the ASP for iPhone.

                      Trends move usually from the high end what it comes to consumer electronics. If you want to rule, you have to have the quality product. Apple had the iPhone, extremely good phone with really balanced features. Samsung has some quality phones selling in volumes.

                      What was Nokia doing in 2009? Collapsing in the high end. Spoiling the company reputation. Apple started to really annihilate Nokia in the high end in H2 2009. The iPhone 3GS was extremely good product and it had tons of apps. Not just some applications Nokia had but apps. The only solution would have been to release fully working Qt for Symbian in 2009. Without it, the battle for applications vs. apps was lost and Nokia started to collapse. First in high end, then in the mid and finally in the low end in 2011.

                      Yes, swipe can be disabled. But what I would like to see is how people would use the phone when that happens. Regular people. The iPhone is so much easier to use. Just press home button and you are back. Whatever you do and wherever you are, that works. That was just an incredible innovation from Apple. So simple, so elegant.

                      Disabling the swipe results an inconsistent user experience. While even a child can use iPhone’s home button, it would be interesting to see how easy to use it is when pausing game/whatever will have to be used just to get back to the UI. That’s actually extremely questionable approach. Applications are allowed to prevent user from using the standard UI. That’s not highly elegant like the home button.

                      What if the application crashes and you can’t enable the UI? What if it wants to show first some ads? That’s not a problem with home button but with applications, that could be a real problem with swipe.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      “Just curious what will happen if output_image.setPixel fails for some reason?”

                      It looks like you are not so familiar with Qt? If setPixel raises an exception with valid arguments, then there is some sort of stack or heap smashing or such, and there is no point to try to handle resulting segmentation violation exceptions, it’s better for all of us to let app crash, because there is no guarantee that any data structures are still valid at all. I’m handling errors where appropriate – for example, possible camera errors while capturing image with camera (no space for image, camera isn’t ready, or such) or while saving image to file, as well as verifying that (in your example) setPixel arguments are valid (x and y are resides inside the image, etc). But handling of SIGSEGV/SIGBUS exceptions is pointless.

                      “Yes, swipe can be disabled. But what I would like to see is how people would use the phone when that happens. Regular people.”

                      This is a question of education. They should learn first how swipe works just when they take a phone in their hands at a first time, without this they can’t even use this phone – by obvious reasons. The same is with iOS as well – for example, it’s not very obvious that device orientation can be locked by pressing twice on the home button and then making some changes on appeared panel.

                      Anyway, I think that Nokia had chances in 2010 and even in 2011, as well as RIM have chances now with their BB10 that somewhat similar to Harmattan (I mean by interface), but have Android runtime and their own audience as well – for historical reasons.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Asking about error handling is my favorite way of getting to know the code. When explaining it the coder usually tells what the application does and gives some nice examples of critical tasks. I wasn’t really saying that your code is not good. It’s just a way of getting to know the philosophy.

                      While it’s true that in that particular case the data would be already messed up, handling possible errors in code can be an important task if the application is not a small one and it’s possible that something was already messed up. That’s why I was interested about the additional work required to cover all that. Well. More errors. I guess error handling is also a matter of coding style. After all, I tend to have very different style for error handling compared to some coders. Java was actually a nice language back in the days because it really made it possible to make code that just “can’t” crash.

                      Sorry about off topic. Probably something very uninteresting for the MNB audience.

                      Locking the orientation in something nice, but it’s hardly as important as knowing how to get back to the home screen. I’ve shown very young kids how to play Angry Birds or some other game and how to change the game when they get bored. This has been a very easy task because it’s just so simple. Press this and select the new game by pressing it. There are some other problems but this works with some simple enough games. I’m not that sure if this would be so easy task with swipe. Locking the UI, releasing it, getting back etc. There are some uses for swipe but then again, so there is for home button as well.

                      It will be interesting to see how well RIM will perform. How many native applications they will have and how much profits they will make. They have nice services. It’s perfectly possible that people will use future RIM phones to use those services and Android applications. I don’t think they will get that many native applications but on the other hand they don’t need those because of their business model. It’s very different from the one Nokia has.

        • Marc

          It will be so fun if RIM will “get back to business” with BB OSX released 2 years after N9.

          Loughing with tears in my eyes…

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            And if it doesn’t succeed, you will claim that MeeGo was different.

            Yes. Faith.

            • Marc

              BB OSX will do better than WP and you don’t need faith for that.

              Will you take your words about WP when that will happen?

              P.s. and yes, Meego would do better than BB OSX, because of 2 years head start and Nokia’s backing (you can’t deny that).

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Succeeding with Nokia’s backing? So that’s why you are so pleased with the success of WP?

                I’m sure you can find a good man of faith to make a nice comparison ‘proving’ how BB is the best. No matter what the real numbers are. Wait! I know a guy who almost proved how Nokia ruled the mobile money! Incredible!

                • Marc

                  You didn’t answer my question:

                  Will you take your words about WP when BB 10 will overtake it?

                  Please, never compare Meego’s success based on Lumia’s. Meego would’ve never received so much hate as WP did.

                  But I am sure you know that already. Yes?

                  P.s. don’t forget to answer my first question.

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                    You didn’t understand.

                    BB has already “overtaken” it if you don’t define what that really means. You can surely find some “analyst” to boost the numbers so you can prove that it won.

                    So, before the real definition there is little point in that.

                    WP has received hate? That’s just the same old talk we already saw with iPhone 4S. People were saying how even the fans were disappointed. Now, how all that hate talk affected the sales?

                    We saw people praising N9? Yes?

                    Did we see actual sales? Not really. Some people were trying to claim it got record sales but we never really saw any sales.

                    So, praising was just praising and hate talk is just hate talk. These people living in the blogosphere are just very loud. Hate lives there but that’s not people buying the phones.

                    Really. Received hate?

                    Now, iPhone fans were disappointed and blogosphere was crying out how bad iPhone 4S was. So, you remember the sales? Yes?

                    • Marc

                      (1) Let’s count only BB10 and Lumia’s WP8 devices.

                      (2) My point is that RIM’s strategy to stay with their own OS will work (company will be profitable and will remain an important player in smartphone market) and Nokia’s strategy with WP will (is) fail (no profit and lost market share).

                      Is that clear enough?

                      So, if both of these two points will be in favor of RIM (let’s say, 6 and 12 months after BB 10′s launch in market), will you agree that WP strategy is a failure for Nokia?

                      I am glad that we both agree, that Meego is a loved product and WP is hated by many.

                      You think hate doesn’t matter. So, why Nokia fans didn’t embrace WP?

                      Your comment about the lack of a huge N9′s success despite love is an absurd, because you’re “forgetting” about Elop and his “promotion” of N9. (Still it sold well)

                      This argument is getting absurd, because you’re evading the truth.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      So, are you suggesting to compare the first quarters of the unit sales (like Q4/2012 for WP8 and QX/2013 for BB), market shares at those quarters, or perhaps sales for a certain period like for full year 2014 or H2 2013?

                      Or are you talking about all cumulative unit sales at some point of time and comparing those? Or perhaps comparing cumulative revenues?

                      I guess Nokia should be making profits with WP strategy. Now, how much profits is enough? Just as much as they did in 2010? Something else?

                      I’m sure that MeeGo is loved by some people and hated by some. I’m also sure that WP is loved by some people and hated by some. Those people loving MeeGo may talk more in blogs. That’s how the illusion can be made.

                      Sales matter just like iPhone 4S proved. It was supposed to be hated even by the fans but it was selling pretty well.

                      No proof about N9 selling that well. Maybe it sold very well or maybe it was a miserable failure. It’s just not possible to know that because Nokia is not releasing any numbers. yes, we have some guesses but those are just guesses.

      • dss

        Even if it was/is a religion (which is a ridiculous assumption) it will need to be something really special for people to “believe” in it .. which, in your view, its not so therefore..how do you think it got the “religion” level ?

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Maybe you should ask that ex-Nokia manager about the religion? After all, he was there before me claiming how Symbian was a religion.

          On the other hand, it doesn’t have to be that special to be a religion. A good story is enough. Remember Xenu?

          Symbian has all the great elements for a good story. A pure savior, a villain, betrayal, conspiracies and the second coming.

          Nice religion.

          • ftw

            You are a sad little person, I suspect some one is paying you to be here attacking symbian and everything else that might cast a shadow over your WP wet dreams, wake up your pyjama is wet.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Yes, everyone not agreeing how Symbian was the best OS ever must be a Elop’s henchmen.

              Wait!

              The head of MeeGo was saying something bad about Symbian? Now, do you think Elop was paying him to do that or was he just a sad little person?

      • kues

        Being Symbian a religion or not- in 2010/11 Nokia no longer had a choice: Symbian had to be the Transition OS regardless if the new OS choice was Meego, Android, Windows Phone or something else. Nokia had/has to sell devices while reorganizing and developing new devices.

        Regarding platforms and possible success: Windows Phone had already proofed it was no success after it’s first sales quarter in Q4/2010. And WP was in no way ready for lowend devices- Android was or Symbian was (and Meltemi was to be).

        The real task for Nokia was (and still is) to turn it’s millions of Feature-/Dumbphone Users into Smartphone Users- so far Nokia has failed miserably (loosing 35 million devices sales per quarter), because WP was, had and is no solution for than task. Android would have been a solution- reaching from low to high end and being not very far seperated from Series 40 due to the programming language. Or a Qt ecosystem combining Meego and Symbian, which was to be replaced by Meego from the highend and by Meltemi from the lowend, and Series 40 would have served cheap touch devices until Meltemi takes over and be pushed down to the lowest end until it would have vanished just like Series 30 did. WP and Series 40 are like fire and water: if you used a Asha Touch or Full Touch (with Meego style UI), WP UI is like a completely different world making Android UI feeling like home…

        Who from Nokia did opt for WP by the way? The Meego guys have left early or later, leaving the old Symbian worshippers -now converted to WP- still on board…
        There’s a fitting german saying: Den Teufel mit dem Beelzebub austreiben

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Here is a graph explaining why Symbian was destined to lose.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Wide_Smartphone_Sales_Share.png

          There was nothing to stop that development. Really nothing.

          And the funny part is that you can’t even notice the strategy change from that chart. It just had no real effect. Symbian was collapsing and Nokia was forced to kill it before the costs of developing Symbian would kill Nokia.

          No reason to believe that MeeGo would have succeeded. Just read the Story of MeeGo. It was a mess and N9 was shipped really quite unfinished. It didn’t even have folders! Really!

          No folders and the front side camera was practically unused.

          People are trying to reason how the folders were not that big deal while even iPhone has those. And the same people were claiming how iPhone was crappy when it didn’t have folders.

          So, unfinished OS to replace collapsing Symbian? Really nice. Combine that with incompetent management for OS development. Disaster.

          • kues

            So iOS/iPhone is on it’s way to death according to the graph…

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Yes it is if Apple can’t sell more iPhones.

              What makes it a bit better for Apple is the long time trend. Apple’s iOS has been dropping only for a short time while Symbian was collapsing for years.

              Apple has also very high ASP that was not dropping. Nokia’s ASP was coming down really hard.

              But yes, if Apple can’t turn the trend, they will eventually collapse.

              Nokia collapsed because they were not able to turn the trend. Sad.

              • everlfr

                you are beyond sad.

          • Oleg Derevenetz

            “No reason to believe that MeeGo would have succeeded. Just read the Story of MeeGo. It was a mess and N9 was shipped really quite unfinished. It didn’t even have folders! Really!”

            LOL, WP now, after 2 years of existence, still have no folders. Really! Unambiguous sign of an unfinished OS? :) You make my day every time by such ill-considered statements.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Why are you LOL?

              It doesn’t seem that WP is really successful and people are telling that is happening because it’s missing features.

              Now MeeGo was missing features. Could you please explain why it was so great idea not to have folders and full support for front side camera when N9 was released?

              • Oleg Derevenetz

                I’m just trying to say that if OS doesn’t have support for folders on the app list screen, then it doesn’t necessary mean it was “unfinished”. That may be just an interface decision. BTW, since there was complains from people (they would be like to have an ability to create folders) – no problem, Nokia released an update for N9 with folders. MS, on the other side, still persists in their interface blunders, ignoring people opinions so far, and Nokia can’t do anything with that, even if they wanted to fix something. That’s an aftermath of being an rightless OEM.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  And the front camera support? It was hardly used for anything? Now how is that so smart?

                  Maybe you have some explanation for the front camera and why it was smart not to really support it?

                  Mirror, yes. That’s not real support.

                  • Oleg Derevenetz

                    That was in fact not quite as you said. As far as I remember, front camera was in fact supported in the OS, and you can get access to it via corresponding API (and just after release there was 3rd party apps that allow to, say, take photos using it, and there is even an app to make Google Talk video calls using it, named GTalk Video Call), but it wasn’t used by any built-in N9 apps, such as Camera app or Skype.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Of course it was supported by some API. It’s pretty obvious because you could use it as a mirror.

                      However there was practically no support for it when the phone was released.

                      So, you are claiming that they just decided that it was a great idea not to make any real use of it?

                      Sorry, but it really seems that it was half baked OS at the time of the release. It’s just really interesting how some people still claim it had all the features and they were polished.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      What “support” of front camera you expected exactly? It was useless for taking photos because of poor resolution, so there was no reason for built-in Camera app to use it. And it was useless for Skype, because it doesn’t support video calls at all on N9 (and still there is no support for it). If there was an update to support video calls in N9 Skype, then the front camera would have been used for sure.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Useless for taking pictures? Really? Even the front side camera of iPad 2 can be used for that and it’s not too great.

                      What’s the point of adding a front side camera that’s so bad people can’t use it?

                      Why not letting the user to decide? Because it’s a Nokia phone supposed to give people the freedom of choice? Or was that some kind of an attempt to copycat Apple? Surely not.

                      I bet they just dropped the feature because they didn’t have time to implement it.

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      “I bet they just dropped the feature because they didn’t have time to implement it.”

                      Even if so, this niche was momentarily occupied by 3rd party apps. In any case, features rarely appear all together. As you remember, first iPhone can’t ever run 3rd party apps – while other smartphones did this for years, and even cheap dumbphones was able to run Java apps. End of the world did not happen, and iPhone got an ability to run 3rd party apps a bit later. More serious issue than absence of support for front camera in built-in Camera app on N9. I can remember LOTS of such issues in Android devices as well.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      True, but at the time iPhone had few features never really seen before in mobile. That was something new. Now I know some people think swipe was new, but was it really that nice as were multitouch, iTunes, great browser Symbian never caught up and real OS upgrades?

                      While everything changed in 2007 when Apple introduced iPhone, it really started selling only in 2008 with the iPhone 3G. It’s probable that, with proper marketing, Nokia would have sold just as many MeeGo phones in 2011-2012 as Apple sold iPhones in 2007-2008.

                      I remember very well how people using Nokia phones complained how iPhone was missing all those features. Yes it was. Now is this something why N9 was supposed to succeed over 4 years after the iPhone while it was offering very few new features compared to the competition?

                    • Oleg Derevenetz

                      @Ere oli aliarvostettu:

                      “Now is this something why N9 was supposed to succeed over 4 years after the iPhone while it was offering very few new features compared to the competition?”

                      That’s not something WHY N9 WAS SUPPOSED TO SUCCEED, that’s just WHY N9 HARDLY FAILED just because of absence of front camera support (temporary, I think). This discussion is pointless. Who knows what would be N9 if it wasn’t shutted down? All we know is that WP is failure and isn’t a good choice. Personally I think that Elop should be fired immediately, because he is fully responsible for such catastrofic “transition” from Symbian to WP, for destroyed R&D, for fired people, for nuked projects, and so on – and catastrophic results of all those. I do not think that this may be challenged – he is fully responsible for his actions. Not “previous management”, not OPK – he is already fired more than two years ago after all. Only Elop.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      The front camera was just one example of why the OS was half baked. There was several issues with N9. It was missing features even the iPhone had while the iPhone is considered as the absolute minimum (by many Nokia fans) what it comes to features.

                      What would have happened if Nokia didn’t shut down Symbian development? The costs were astronomical, Nokia was extremely inefficient and the middle management, well, something horrible. People at Nokia were thinking that it was really the best there is. It was a religion. Really. The head of MeeGo development was saying it was a religion preventing anything else competing against it. This thinking was preventing Nokia from making progress.

                      Steve Jobs called Apple’s Lisa sh*t back in the days and told how the designers of Lisa really f***** up. Yes, he was using those words. It’s possible that Elop was trying to pull off some Steve Jobs stunt and failed while doing it. Not the first time someone at Nokia was trying to be Steve Jobs.

                      All we know that WP was not selling that well. It’s not possible to say that it will never sell well.

                      Remember also that the MeeGo team already failed twice while delivering the UI. It’s possible that Nokia’s management feared that they would fail again and then Nokia would be doomed. While WP was unproven product, so was MeeGo. With the exception that the MeeGo team already failed to deliver and WP was shipping.

                    • ftw

                      “The front camera was just one example of why the OS was half baked”
                      So a non existing issue is an example…

                      how much are you being paid to be around here, spreading FUD? Because that all you do FUD!And what is WP excuse?

                      Micrososft as been working on mobile OS’s for ever and still Harmatan declared dead 2 years ago OS had more features than WP does now!

                    • Leo oli aliarvostettu

                      An existing issue.

                      Didn’t you know that Lord Elop pays all the people who say anything good about WP?

                      In reality Symbian had more features than iOS but iOS just annihilated Symbian in the high end. Apple took almost all the profits.

                      So, having all those features don’t make Nokia to succeed. It’s not about features.

                      Unfortunately Nokia tries to succeed and make money. They just can’t do that with just features. They need great products like iOS and Android. MeeGo was not that great product because of the lack of the applications. And because there were some other issues, but the lack of applications was a showstopper.

                      Sorry.

              • Oleg Derevenetz

                BTW, somewhere above you mentioned that WP is better for Nokia because it costs less. If this is the main reason to have WP as main smartphone platform, then why just put shit inside smartphones instead? Shit costs literally nothing, and can be produced by any employee, from CEO to janitor, while in case of any software you’ll yet need some engineers.

                • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                  You wanna take it this way? Well, let’s try it out.

                  They were already using some virtual sh*t. It was called Symbian. However manufacturing that sh*t in-house was resulting enormous costs.

                  Outsourcing can save some serious money.

                  • Oleg Derevenetz

                    That’s was just a joke. In fact, Symbian was a quite expensive shit, but that’s not a reason to replace it by another shit just because it costs less – if the only reason was lesser cost, then they can just use real shit from staff. I’m trying to say that “it costs less” reason isn’t enough to be a determining.

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  • Sheva1326

    Good Job Nokia

  • James

    sub.

  • Jase

    All your base, are belong to us.

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