Nokia Dominating Windows Phone With 78% Marketshare, 54% of WP8 Devices Have Received Portico

| February 11, 2013 | 131 Replies


Another pretty chart from adduplex brings more good news; most importantly the fact that Nokia’s share of Windows Phone devices (7 and 8) has increased to 78% of the Windows Phone market-share. Interestingly the HTC 8x has had almost no success in gaining market-share, seeing that it’s being dominated by almost every single Lumia; except the 822 and 810 which are carrier specific in the US only.

In terms of updates adduplex reports that over 50% of Windows Phone 8 devices have already received portico update (which makes me part of the minority who are still waiting); while only 16& of WP7 devices have received WP7.8. (keep in mind some devices won’t even get it due to carriers, such as the 710 on Tmobile and multiple HTC devices).


Via Thanks for the tip @Harsh_Doshi96

Category: Lumia, Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Fadi

    Will the Portico update come to Lumia 822?

  • Chris W

    Are we able to figure out total sales of WP from this? Presuming thus is overall sales, and not just for the last quarter, i calculate that if Nokia has sold a total of 15 million Lumia’s (roughly) which is 78% then would i be correct in saying the total number of WP7&8 devices is about 19 million?

  • Hosh333

    2.9% of whole US market share, a -0.7% decline from last year.

    But it depends by what information you go some have seen an increase It’s still really small to even consider WP as relevant mobile os

    • Viipottaja

      just to point out, as you can see if you were to read the comscore chart, its subscriber share, not market share.
      fairly big difference.

      and no (before someone jumps on me for saying that), I am not saying WP market share in the US is doing much better either.

    • v.s.i

      As long as MS and Nokia keep turning profits and coming out with great devices such as 920 and 620, I don’t see what the problem of market share is.

      • Jiipee

        true to some extent. The risk is that, if the wp operations at MS and smartphone operations at Nokia wont become profitable in due time, those can be axed.

  • nn

    So combining it with 4.4M Lumias in Q4 leads to about 5.2M WP sales in Q4, which neatly agrees with 5.1M from Canalys.

    In other words yet another confirmation that WP is completely dead platform without any hope. I guess Elop isn’t very happy that other manufacturers aren’t doing great with WP.

    • Viipottaja

      Agree on the last sentence, and I am sure you are right about Elop’s sentiment. He is blatanly obviously spot on correct in hoping that other OEMs too would have some success in WP.

      • nn

        It would seem a lot cleaner if Elop formally finished the sale of Nokia to MS before he starts rooting for MS products at the expense of Nokia as if he was head of one, not particularly important, Redmond division.

    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


      It’s probable that Nokia would have been selling MeeGo phones equally well as WP phones.

      The problem is that Nokia has been replacing high end Symbian sales with WP sales. Unfortunately they no longer sold high end Symbian phones or they did but just too few of them.

      Nokia lost most of the high end Symbian sales back in 2009 and 2010. High end Symbian sales collapsed at that time. First because Apple and then because of Google.

      Losing most of the high end Symbian sales made it almost impossible to sell reasonable amounts of WP or MeeGo phones. There was no longer sales to be replaced with a new OS.

      Most Symbian sales were low end.

      Even in the Q4 2010 Symbian^3 sold only 5 million units while first Symbian^3 phones were already shipped in Q3 2010. They sold only 5 million Symbian^3 phones even while they had been promoting N8 and Symbian^3 since Q1 2010. Six months of marketing and they sold only 5 million units.

      There was barely any high end sales to be replaces. Actually it’s a miracle WP has been selling this well. MeeGo could have been selling even less than WP.

      Let’s hope WP will get some real traction and Nokia will be able to get some new customers. The old high end ones abandoned Nokia already in 2009 and 2010.


      • zlutor

        “MeeGo could have been selling even less than WP” – well…
        We just simply do not know it. Everybody speculating in this area.

        The fact is the N9 outsold Lumias in the first couple of quarters regardless
        – it was declared DOA by Elop – what a wise move! :-(
        – how big marketing spending the latter ONE has
        – how limited the availability of the first one was (no single mayor market got it China where it performed surprisingly well)

        So, my opinion is Meego would deliver at least on pair with WP. No, my real opinion is that it would deliver MUCH better – especially revenue wise…

        • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

          Actually it’s not a fact that N9 outsold Lumia phones. Nokia never released N9 unit sales and it’s possible that it sold only in very small quantities. There is no proof that it sold more.

          I know that Tomi Ahonen fabricated some sales numbers for N9 but those numbers were just lies. They are something he just made up.

          So, it’s very probable that MeeGo would have sold even less than WP did.

          • zlutor

            Yes, Nokia did not released any official numbers -guess why – but there were figures circulating around.

            I can not judge how accurate they were but even Elop himself admitted, they have sold enough N9 to make the whole MeeGo development profitable…

            If I remember right there was kind of consensus about the relative performance of the two platform in the first couple of quarters – but I can easily be wrong.

            On the other hand it is not a question MeeGo+Harmattan is far superior as OS than WP7.5 was…

            WP8 caught/will catch up but…

            Anyway, we all know what the conditions were – WP phones should shadow N9 sales one handed – but they didn’t.
            And that is failure…

            • Mark

              “Yes, Nokia did not released any official numbers -guess why – but there were figures circulating around.”

              Well, yes… the ones made up by commenters on AAS and Tomi’s site made up by angry fanboys using dodgy maths which had the figures quite high and, of course, the ones produced by the major analysts who have access to sell through and inventories… which show that it sold nowhere near the volume the Lumia did (the N9 sales are incorporated into ‘Other’ in Gartner and Canalys figures).

              I think I know which ones are more reliable! :)

              • zlutor

                If it is so obvious that N9 was sold so badly – especially compared to Lumias the Steve Elop himself was not dare enough to say the exact numbers answering the direct question in the last annual shareholder’s meeting?

                As far as I remember he just mentioned it generated enugh income covering development cost…

                Janne was there if I remember right she can comment on it if she wishes so…

                I also have application developed for N9, being in the OVI store, downloaded in magnitude of thousands and I’m not dare enough to say it is on each and every 1000th N9s…

                - one related to celebrating Christmas – ~6500 downloads, not distributed into some Muslim countries and China, far biggest N9 market
                - silly tap&fun app, distributed globally – 5k downloads
                - number puzzle (, distributed globally, ~2,6k downloads in the last two weeks.

                So, either my apps are extremely popular – of course :-) – or N9 were sold in 5-6 millions :-)

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                  By app you probably mean application.

                  So what you are saying is that your application can’t be popular?

                  N9 doesn’t have nearly as many applications as iPhone has apps. It’s just natural that people download more those applications that are available.

                  About Elop not answering about the question.

                  Nokia rarely releases unit sales. No releasing N9 unit sales proves nothing.

                  Unfortunately you just can’t know how well N9 sold.


                  • zlutor

                    “So what you are saying is that your application can’t be popular?”

                    No. Of course, they are popular – :-) – but they are not Angry Birds… ;-)

                    Look, they are quite simple ones and I try to be realistic. I do not think every 1000th N9 users downloaded them on average. Do you think differently? :-)

                    6500 downloads total, none of them from China (biggest N9 country, no doubt), not a single one from major Muslim countries – also N9 ‘strongholds’ (e.g. Iraq)
                    ~1600 from Russia
                    ~700 from Mexico
                    ~200 from Finland

                    ~5000 downloads total
                    ~3500 China
                    ~400 Iraq
                    ~120 Russia

                    The 3rd application(~two weeks in the store)
                    ~1800 China
                    ~800 from rest of the globe:
                    ~120 from Russia
                    ~60 from Finland
                    ~40 from Iraq
                    ~800 rest of the Globe

                    You can see in the last two cases, where China is included, it takes ~70% of downloads…

                    If anybody has any country specific numbers we can extrapolate.

                    But the range must b in 3-5 million worldwide, I guess. Majority of them sold in Q4’11 and Q1’12 I think…

                    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


                      You guess N9 has been selling that well because people have been downloading those applications.

                      It’s just a guess. Hardly any evidence.

                      Unfortunately it’s very probable that N9 did not sell very well. In any case there are no proof whatsoever about N9 selling well. Only those guesses.

                      I understand you have some faith for N9.


                  • zlutor

                    “About Elop not answering about the question. Nokia rarely releases unit sales. ”

                    Yes, true. They release those numbers only what they want to highlight.

                    But what I was referring was not a press release but the shareholders’ meeting.

                    He was asked by one shareholders but he did not answered directly…

                    “No releasing N9 unit sales proves nothing” – yes, it does not prove anything.


                    How easy it would have been for Elop to say the numbers proving how his decision was successful leaving Meego for WP IF numbers could prove it?

                    Not saying the numbers let conteos growing…

                    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


                      He didn’t release those numbers.

                      So, the N9 sales numbers are unknown and it’s not possible to draw any conclusions about the N9 sales.


                • Janne

                  I don’t remember anything from Elop at AGM about N9 dev cost, but he did say Lumia outsold N9 quickly. I took that to mean both 800 and whatever little 710 had been sold by very early 2012. Maybe sometime in January 2012? He also admitted the comparison wasn’t fair (he only answered because he was asked) because N9 was sold in more limited fashion.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              So, you can’t judge how accurate those N9 sales numbers are but you are just claiming that N9 outsold Lumia phones?

              I guess that’s just some nice old school Nokia religion. Something similar to Symbian religion.

              You have faith for those numbers you don’t have facts about.


              • zlutor

                How on Earth could I – or anybody else – judge the accuracy of those numbers, man?!

                I’m neither analyst nor oraculum and I did not see Nokia’s books either.

                I based my opinion(!) on the numbers I saw. According to them, N9 clearly outsold Lumias in Q4 2011 and maybe – or maybe not – in Q1 2012.

                Not bad from a dead-man-walking device…

                And I would really appreciate if you did not finish your posts with ‘Yes’ – it a little bit offending…

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


                  You said. “WP phones should shadow N9 sales one handed – but they didn’t.”

                  You seem to be judging the accuracy of those numbers.

                  In reality the N9 unit sales are unknown to us and it’s completely possible that N9 failed miserably.

                  N9 selling that well would be nice but unfortunately we don’t know the unit sales.

                  Saying yes is just a habit. We should learn to respect our differences.

                  • zlutor

                    OK, we do not know the exact numbers of N9 being sold – but we know numbers of Lumias sold.

                    And that number is anything but something shading any other numbers – especially in Q4 ’11 and Q1 ’12.

                    ps: I fully respect you as anybody else. But what is offending is offending. Yes? :-)

        • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


          There just is not available any facts about N9 unit sales. That’s why it can’t be a known fact. It’s probable that N9 failed miserably in sales.

          It seems that your opinion is based on fabricated data.

          • Jiipee

            First you try to be balanced, then you become another Tomi.

            there are no facts out (and a friend of mine at Nokia finance didnt reveal it either).The biggest hint that N9 has decent sales, is the quaterly report where Nokia gives credit of the increase in asp primarily to N9 and also Lumia. If the sales had been minimal, there wouldnt have been any mention of N9 in that regard.

            Just get over it. It is wp now and its better succeed that my tax payments wont increase due to takeover of Nokia.

            I want to see, what Nokia can innovate regarding future appliances and user experiences. I can hardly believe that those could be powered by tiles.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              I’m hardly another Tomi if I say what’s probable. If I were another Tomi, I would fabricate numbers just like he does. There is a difference in fabricating numbers and using the language a bit like someone else does.

              Now why wouldn’t they have mentioned N9 even if it had minimal sales? It’s apparent that they mentioned Lumia phones as the reason for a higher ASP. It can be assumed they sold 900 000 of those. Maybe almost a million but probably something like 900 000 in Q4. I’m not saying this is a fact. It’s just possible knowing that they sold the millionth Lumia phone only in January.

              Now even if N9 sold one third of that, it would have been worth mentioning as the reason for higher ASP. If I remember correctly, Nokia was selling more than one Lumia model at the time so N9 was just another phone with a higher ASP.

              I’m over it. Thanks. It’s WP and Nokia is no longer plagued by Symbian.

              This is just an interesting topic. I really would like to know the source for some numbers some people have been claiming true.

              Tiles are the UI. That’s not everything Nokia can do. In the past they always had the inferior UI and they apparently had some innovations if modifying existing technology counts. It’s probable that they can do what they did in the past in the area of innovation.

              At least Nokia is no longer constrained by their own OS development.

    • GordonH

      You still don’t get it do you…
      Bad WP sales means things are ok and we can improve products while having a positive outlook.
      Great Symbian sales means things in bad condition and we cannot improve and it’s all doom and dark.

      Hmmm Wait I too don’t get it.

      • guerrahp

        Symbians still managed to outsell WP when it was announced it was being killed off while WP sales just wont gain traction

      • Janne

        There is no way bad WP sales are a good thing. Nokia’s first Lumia generation failed, their Symbian away-transition failed and many things in general have failed in the past years. February 11th was too abrupt and was a mistake. The second Lumia generation has not failed, and indeed are excellent products, but at least for now is destined for a mediocre position.

        That said, it comes down to this: Does one believe Symbian was going to become competitive or at least suffice long enough to be replaced by MeeGo – vs. the Windows Phone strategy. Many believe Symbian would have failed anyway and fast, including me. Indeed, I’d say most believe this. It was being held up by a fast-eroding low-end. It was dead end.

        After that things become a lot murkier, though. Would MeeGo have fared better as a successor than Windows Phone? Maybe. Maybe not. Nokia obviously made the conclusion it would not. Nokia, of course, may have been right or wrong on that one – but they did with all the insider information they had about operators, order books and the like. They knew more than we do about the state of MeeGo.

        However, even if Nokia had gone with MeeGo, it would have been a rocky road of converting diminishing number of old customers and harder to reach new customers to a new platform – MeeGo in this case. We shall see how RIM fares, now that they are doing a similar exercise.

        MeeGo could have worked, though. And RIM can succeed. We’ll see.

        • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

          Why do you think the Feb 11. was a mistake? It really didn’t make the Symbian market share o drop any more it was already dropping. I’m starting to think that it was really necessary to release that memo. Just because people working for Nokia needed that wake up call.

          While it’s possible that anything could have succeeded, I don’t think it was really any more probable for MeeGo to succeed compared to the WP. What Nokia needed was to make a transition from Symbian to the new OS. Unfortunately there was almost no high end left to be transitioned.

          How was Nokia supposed to transition from almost non existing high end sales to high end MeeGo or WP sales?

          Can’t do the transition from low end to high end. Not that well.

          • zlutor

            “Why do you think the Feb 11. was a mistake? It really didn’t make the Symbian market share o drop any more it was already dropping”

            I think there is significant difference between ‘declining’ and ‘collapsing’. That’s why “Feb 11. was a mistake”…

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              Yes there is.

              Symbian started to collapse in 2010. High end Symbian phones started to collapse in 2009.

              Feb 11. never accelerated the collapse of the market share. It just didn’t matter as far as sales were concerned.


              • zlutor

                No :-)

                can we agree in the memo did not slow the decline down? ;-)

                • zlutor

                  Even Elop himself admitted the memo damaged Symbian sales…

                  • Just Visiting

                    Had some embittered Nokia employee never released the memo to the public, the public would not have gone into a tizzy!

                    Memo’s are for internal use only, and an employee violated that rule.

                    I’d say that the release of the memo helped to accelerate Nokia’s plans to downsize their staff; unfortunate, but perhaps they would have been able to keep working a little longer had it not been for that bitter employee.

                  • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


                    If even one person decided not to by a phone manufactured by Nokia, just because they released that memo, yes?

                    However you can’t even pinpoint the memo on a graph illustrating Symbian’s market share.

                    It was just collapsing.

                  • Janne

                    At AGM Elop speculated Symbian was likely hurt by the Feb11 strategy announcement, I haven’t seen him say anywhere that the memo did so? I doubt the memo hurt much anything, maybe some feelings, the Feb11 announcement and its subsequent PR activities was the big thing. The memo is noise and fighting words for a minority mostly. The real impact was obsoleting of Symbian and the memo did NOT do that.

                    • Janne

                      Remember the burning platform memo predates February 11th by many, many days. It didn’t announce anything. It was just a call for action kind of pep talk. Misguided one, sure, but nothing compared to what came on Feb11.

                    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                      Actually you can’t really pinpoint even the Feb 11. announcement from the market share graph.

                      It was just collapsing because Symbian was no longer a viable product.

                      Purchasing the 808 made me to realize that Symbian never had any hope. This product had an UI that was said to be modern. In reality it can’t even compete against an UI from iOS had in 2010.

                      The very last year Nokia had a window of opportunity with an OS based on Linux core. Yes, Symbian is not based on Linux core.

          • Janne

            To me February 11th was a mistake for two reasons: it accelerated the Symbian downfall (it did NOT create it!) or at the very least created a very hostile atmosphere around Nokia products. It was a PR failure, from which Nokia’s corporate image is reeling to this day. Dominies Communicate (the anti-Tomi blog) actually has a fairly good piece on this from the Burning Platform memo perspective, but much of it resonates with February 11th as well. I actually agree with Dominies very much on this, the memo was unnecessary, as was the abrupt death of Symbian. It should have been handled better, if for no other reason than to create a better PR atmosphere.

            Second, the goals set on February 11th and after it regarding the transition and Symbian sales were missed, which are another view to the failure that the strategy launch included – if not created, but at the very least included.

            A mistake it was. That said, Symbian was failing anyway of course and the Lumia strategy itself isn’t that bad, but the transition was mismanaged clearly.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              Accelerated? Really?

              How much?

              Feb 11. can’t be even pinpointed from the graph illustrating Symbian’s market share.

              So, why did Nokia start losing unit sales? very simple. There was no longer left that many companies giving up Symbian so it was Nokia’s turn to lose unit sales.

              Nokia was pretty much the strongest Symbian manufacturer but Android was just too strong for them.

              In my opinion that memo did not make it clear enough. Nokia needed a wake up call.


              • nn

                Accelerated? Really?

                How much?

                Been there, asked that, never got an answer. Hope you will have more luck.


                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                  I just love to see how people are starting to mimic me. That’s when you know you are making a difference!

                  It didn’t really accelerate it that much.


              • Janne

                Feb11′s acceleration effect to Symbian’s decline wasn’t probably THAT big, but it isn’t unreasonable to assume it made certain operators and retailers abandon Symbian faster than they otherwise would have. Heck, even Elop said at the AGM it was likely. ;)

                But to me the bigger impact was the bad PR that is still, today, haunting Nokia. They bruteforced something that would have required a more tender, more wiser touch. They made a lot of unnecessary enemies that day. Healing those wounds will take time.

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                  Nokia had been making more enemies each year before the Feb 11. announcement. That was nothing compared to shipping inferior products running on Symbian. That’s what made the real enemies. Not the Feb 11.

                  Just remember how bad N97 was and how it hurt Nokia? Just remember what a mess E7 was? How 5800 made people to laugh at Nokia?

                  Remember Symbian Signed? That alone was worse than Feb 11.

                  Feb 11. made some hard core fans to abandon Nokia. They probably lost few thousand applications someone would have been making without the strategy change. Peanuts compared to the past.

                  They really needed that wake up call.

                  And the hard core fans? I don’t think there is anything in the world that could have been able to wake them up. They were living a fairy tale.

                  • Janne

                    You make fair points, overall I don’t disagree much. But I do think Feb11 was unnecessary hurt and do think it mattered somewhat more than you think, negatively that is.

                    We agree on more than we disagree though, so I suggest we leave it at that. :)

                    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                      Your suggestion is probably a very reasonable one.

                      May I just add that I have also heard very positive comments about the Feb 11. announcement. Lots of people were saying how Nokia can finally have a real future. People were thinking that Nokia will have some killer products that were no longer crippled with Symbian.

                      I don’t think too many people here really understand how much Symbian was disliked. It was something that was holding back Nokia and people didn’t want to buy high end phones because of Symbian.

                      Most people buying a Nokia smartphone were getting a low end Symbian phone, not because of Symbian but despite it.

                      Unfortunately WP is not Android or iOS. Those are the two best OS there are at the moment. Best in this contexts means the overall experience. Not just some features.

                      I honestly think Nokia needed that fresh start the Feb 11. announcement made possible.

                      Yes. It could have been Android instead of Wp but that was a different story.

            • zlutor

              “the memo was unnecessary, as was the abrupt death of Symbian. It should have been handled better, if for no other reason than to create a better PR atmosphere.”

              I fully agree with this. No question, Symbian was fading away ‘slowly’.

              On the other hand it is never ever a wise move if a CEO declares its product POS…

              Nobody – not even Samsung CEO itself – thought they can dethrone Nokia before 2015…

        • nn

          Aaaand here we go again, conveniently tossing around successes, failures and who-knows without any logic other than it fits your existing theories. Now that WP7 is dead we no longer need to pretend it’s success, from now on that title is reserved for WP8. At least until WP8 is dead too and there is another brand new thing from MS.

          Yeah, many WP fans ex post invented the theory that 2011 crash was set in stone long time before Elop happened, probably by OPK, Ollila or whatever. It really doesn’t matter who or what it was as long as it’s not Elop and WP. In reality nobody saw that coming, not even Stephen “I will sell 150M Symbian phones” Elop. Not until he unveiled his grand strategy, that is, then quite a few predicted what eventually happened.

          This “MeeGo may or may not have worked” is another attempt at deflecting blame from Elop and WP, to make it look like his strategy was as valid and thought out as other possibilities (if allow for the moment that there were other possibilities), that the decision was just matter of intuitive judgement and that his sin was he is not genius/psychic.

          Unfortunately for Elop and WP, the old strategy, even after Symbian/MeeGo public execution, proved to be far better than WP up until Q3, and by your latest favourite metric of success – praise on some English blogs – N9 was big thing. But hard to argue here, because you again fail to advance any specific argument other than Elop and BOD just are bunch of wise man with insider info, so who can question them?

          In reality they proved beyond any doubt they are bunch of idiots who got almost everything, even the basic things, spectacularly wrong, while being absolutely sure they could not make mistake leading to such insanities like committing Nokia to minimal license payments and making unsellable WP their exclusive OS.

          So the notion anyone should take seriously what Elop says, be it about MeeGo or anything else, is ridiculous.

          • Janne

            Actually I don’t think WP7 is dead yet. It might actually see its greatest successes yet, although the yardstick is modest or should I say mediocre of course considering how lackluster its past performance.

            I know you don’t appreciate it when I call things failures, but I do when I see one. Second generation Lumia, including its WP7 devices (505/510), does not seem a failure to me. It will do okay. Not great unfortunately, but okay.

          • GordonH

            Well written comment by nn.

  • Mark

    inb4 negative haters!

    Oh… blast!

    You guys can’t help yourselves, can you? You must actually sit here pressing refresh waiting for positive articles! :)

    • correct

      Indeed. Nokia haters here, and elsewhere literally just sit there and wait, like flies waiting to land on sh*t.

      • incognito

        I’d rather be a fly than the material flies land on. Just sayin’…

        • correct

          Ah, so you admit yet again you’re a hater (who also likes to troll). Good to know then.

        • Mark

          Yes, I see you here and at Engadget, wallowing in your misery! :)

          What a funny little man you are! :)

          • Just Visiting


    • Hosh333

      Most of the haters are the people who feel betrayed by one company that they actually loved. Nokia killed more than Meego, they killed Qt, Symbian it’s community sacked over 10,000 of it’s workers. And went with a system that’s nothing like Nokia was.

      I want to ask how hard would it have been to release a single MeeGo phone a year? Not 5 not 10 just 1 every year to support the Open-Source Nokia lovers!!! Same with Symbian.

      I’ve been Nokia fan since 1992 and I’m sorry if I’m stuck in my old ways but Nokia under Microsoft is not the Nokia I used to know. And my next phone won’t be a Nokia.

      • viktor von d.

        they do support the nokia open source lovers- they gave meego to jolla to use. they could have kept it loked up in their labs.
        and betray is a harsh word. too much entitlement. in the end it’s a makes money, not support communities

        • correct

          Exactly, well said. Nokia through their bridge program, allowed Meego to live on as Sailfish OS at Jolla.

          Furthermore, they did release a Meego phone, the N9, and it sold poorly. The other problem with Meego was that it looked too much like Symbian, with a little bit of iOS and Android thrown in. It didn’t look different at all, and it didn’t really stand out in the market. That’s why long-term Nokia decided not to go with Meego. Before you blame Elop, the decision to drop Meego was made internally by senior Finnish executives, and NOT by Elop.

          Symbian had to be left to die, Symbian had too many problems and the customer perception of Symbian was quite bad in many countries. Symbian continued to sell only mainly based on low price for the last few years.

          I agree that Nokia didn’t handle the Symbian transition correctly, but at least they didn’t simply coldly fire everyone. They gave a lot of support to Symbian devs and also Finnish factory workers in terms of finances as well as helping them get other jobs. A company that didn’t care wouldn’t do that.

          I’m not going to beat the dead horse of an argument of why Nokia went with WP, but as a Nokia fan, I’d rather see the company smaller yet staying alive, then have seen the company remain big and collapse under it’s own bloated weight.

          • MOOking

            are you aware that RIM/BBRY suffered the same and worked on what they had left instead of make up some bs memo and kill it’s own compnant dispite the previous fails….clearly there waa no excuse for nokia to let stealop destroy nokia

            • arts

              I think we all are. And lets see how far this will get them.

              • correct

                Blackberry so far is struggling. Canada and the UK are the only really strong markets for the Z10. Third world countries aren’t going to buy the Z10, because they only buy cheap Blackberries, and those sales are eroding fast.

                Also Blackberry is going to lose a lot of attention come MWC when Nokia and others unveil big lineups of new phones.

                Also if Nokia and Microsoft announce Instagram for WP before it comes to BB10, it will be a big blow to Blackberry as well.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              Actually MeeGo was pretty much destined to fail in getting huge sales because Nokia no longer had that much high end Symbian sales to be replaced with MeeGo sales.


              • correct

                Correct. The fact that the Meego UI looks similar to the Symbian Belle UI would not have helped Nokia at all to gain back ex-Symbian users.

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


                  There was no longer that many high end Symbian users.

                  • correct

                    Yes. People at that point were only buying Symbian due to price. The niche 808 excluded.

          • guerrahp

            N9 sold very well considering it was released in the smallest markets possible. I highly doubt lumia 800 would have beaten the N9 sales on equal footing.

            • Bloob

              And it released with a ridiculous price.

            • Mark

              Except it wasn’t.

              Matched against the Lumia 800 in Denmark it flopped. Badly.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              How do you know it sold well?

              There is no proof of that.

              • GordonH

                Open your world and stop using bing.

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                  I guess you are referring to some “data” fabricated by Tomi Ahonen.


          • Janne

            Great post by Correct. Although one thing, I must say we can’t conclude anything from N9 sales as guerrahp correctly points out, it was sold in limited markets and, as we know, with a limited future.

            MeeGo could have worked. It is also possible it would have done better than Windows Phone at this point, but then again it might not have. It might also have failed to attract more attention in the future, whereas the Windows 8 connection in WP may now gain it more prominence.

            This is all speculation. It could have gone in some many ways. Nokia obviously decided it wouldn’t work out, but they of course have been wrong before. The MeeGo story from MuroPaketti is interesting reading, still. Points out some of the reason why that was.

            Anyway, nothing can be concluded from N9 sales because of the nature of those sales was limited.

            • sina88

              Great post by Correct? Barely ever read so many wrong things at once!

            • correct

              Yes, you’re right, It’s best to leave alone the discussion of N9 sales due to limited availability. Then again, 920 availability still remains limited, no? That is a bit of an interesting comparison.

            • correct

              Also forgot to add, the real interesting insight with Meego and why Nokia cancelled it is the roadmap. Senior Finnish executives looked at the long-term Meego roadmap, which they had planned out apparently all the way out to 2013-2014. Looking at that long-term roadmap, they felt there weren’t enough Meego devices on the roadmap, and felt it wouldn’t be competitive enough. Apparently there were less than 10 Meego devices planned to be released through 2014, and that is obviously much less devices than the number of Lumias that Nokia will have released by next year. At the moment, Nokia already has released 9 Lumias so far, not counting the new devices which will soon be shown at MWC. By next year, Nokia will have released close to 20 Lumias onto the market.

              So clearly there was a long-term competitive problem with Meego.

              • correct

                My mistake, with the Lumia 505, that makes it 10 Lumias on the market so far.

        • Hosh333

          What do you mean they “Gave” MeeGo to Jolla? MeeGo is still Nokias, Jolla is using a Mer fork that’s based on MeeGo core and Nemo top layer. Apart the bridge i’m unaware of anything else that Nokia gave to Jolla

          • correct

            That’s what I meant. It’s based on Meego core. Obviously it’s not the full Meego OS itself that Jolla got. My point was that Meego in spirit lives on with Jolla. Obviously the full OS still remains in Nokia labs.

      • GordonH

        “I want to ask how hard would it have been to release a single MeeGo phone a year?”
        Yes very hard. Very hard for MS.

        • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

          It was too hard for Nokia.

          Remember, Nokia failed to ship a MeeGo (or Maemo) phone in 2010.


          • GordonH

            I remember MS failed to deliver WinNT in 2011.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              Yes, MeeGo was a failure.

              • GordonH

                Meego was deliver before winCE mobile. And the best part was meego was delivered before WinNT mobile.

                • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                  N9 shipped only after WP7.


      • Bloob

        I agree, Nokia should have kept MeeGo going with a yearly release, but Qt is nowhere near dead. Symbian people had to go, or the company would have gone under. They got offered good terms as well.

        If Nokia can’t offer anything to your liking anymore, I suggest you move on instead of holding tight to a past dream. At least stop whining about it as that changes nothing.

      • Mark

        Well that’s nice, Hosh333.

        No need for you to be here. Good luck in transitioning to… well… whatever it is you’re transitioning too! :)

        A lot of negative guys sound like boyfriends stuck at the A or D stages of the SADA model to be honest. Perhaps therapy or a group hug would help? :)

      • zlutor

        “they killed Qt” – fortunately not.

        They could have done so but Qt was sold to Digia. It easily can be seen a really good thing even in the short run since Digia announced commitment for all major platforms (Android, iOS) and other player like Jolla, BB also uses it for their main SDK…

      • Just Visiting

        It’s been two years…Two years! You are well beyond the timeline for getting over disappointment!

        Nokia didn’t take you money, kill your mom or dog or cat…they moved on to a different operating system and business model, like any other company tends to do from time to time.

        People still holding onto this disappoint should see professional psychiatric help.

  • Gunnar

    I totally agree with you
    Hosh333 says:
    February 11, 2013 at 9:52 pm
    Most of the haters are the people who feel betrayed by one company that they actually loved. Nokia killed more than Meego, they killed Qt, Symbian it’s community sacked over 10,000 of it’s workers. And went with a system that’s nothing like Nokia was.

    I want to ask how hard would it have been to release a single MeeGo phone a year? Not 5 not 10 just 1 every year to support the Open-Source Nokia lovers!!! Same with Symbian.

    I’ve been Nokia fan since 1992 and I’m sorry if I’m stuck in my old ways but Nokia under Microsoft is not the Nokia I used to know. And my next phone won’t be a Nokia.

    • livebig

      i agree with u guys to hosh333 i love nokia phones but found they been making some dumb moves really they cancel meamo for all of us who loved that os with attention would have been amazing but 2013 is hear hopefully nokia adopt jolla sailfish so i can trade in my s3

      • arts

        Great. So does this mean all the pathetic people who don’t like people who support the current Nokia strategy will sod off now?

    • Just Visiting

      Then move on! That you made such an emotional connection with inanimate objects developed by Nokia is pathetic.

  • arg0

    I’m sure Nokia aren’t happy about being the only ones selling WP phones.

    If HTC and Samsung don’t gain any market share, the Symbian Consortium story may repeat again, unless ZTE and Huawei globally invest in WP.
    In any case, if this “third ecosystem” does not develop quickly and remains at a one-digit marketshare, it will be the equivalent of Linux for PC. Oh, irony!

    PS: My next phone is still going to be a Nokia. Hope they’ll surprise everybody at MWC as they did with 808 Pureview last year. If they don’t, I’ll get a 808 and wait for 2014.

    • correct

      Samsung doesn’t care about WP, and HTC seems lost. Their attention is split between Android and WP. They can’t fully commit to WP.

      ZTE and Huawei however are more intriguing, despite them being Chinese brands which are not recognized in all international markets. There is also Lenovo which is supposed to be coming out with Windows Phones as well. If these Chinese companies heavily support WP, that would be huge, as all of these companies have large marketshare in China. Since China is such a massive mobile market, by simply selling lots of WP devices there, the international market share for WP would increase quite a bit.

  • dss

    Considering how competitive the android segmend is.. this is amazing to me:

    And then people ask why NOkia went in bed with MS.. well..

    • dss


      • correct

        Well said. I don’t always agree with your posts, but bang on. Elop himself recently said in an interview why they didn’t go with Android.

        • dss

          Ya.. a lot of people don’t realize how strong Samsung’s position is, and also, how big Nokia’s influence is in the WP realm.

          At this point, I think its pretty safe to say that Microsoft might have failed in their mobile platform quest without Nokia.

          The sad part about this is.. you can’t reverse the argument. Nokia will never get back to where they were as an independent company running their own platform.

          I am guessing this is why you don’t agree with me.. I support and independent Nokia and I like Symbian :) You should take a look at this:

          He sums up my problems with the current situation very well.

          • correct

            I have nothing against an independent Nokia, and I prefer and independent Nokia, however independent Nokia just wasn’t getting it done.

            There was a huge amount of internal in-fighting going on with Nokia teams, would you disagree with that? Also there was no clear vision or leadership from upper management. Whatever the cause of this is irrelevant at this point, those were the facts.

            It is well documented the amount of in-fighting there was between Symbian, Meego, QT, and S40 teams.

            One of the smartest decisions I think that Nokia management made was slightly over 2 years ago, when they took a long hard look in the mirror and admitted they weren’t competitive, and the company was in a mess. How to stop such huge in-fighting? The management didn’t know how, so they brought in someone from the outside who had a fresh perspective, someone with a good track record leading the Office division at Microsoft, and that was Elop. Just an interesting sidenote, but one of the reasons apparently which helped encourage Elop to leave Microsoft for Nokia was Sinofsky at Microsoft. Due to the venomous co-operative environment that Sinofsky created, and the huge amount of in-fighting he caused, several high-ranking Microsoft people had left the company, and it is said Elop was one of them. So that proves right there that Elop is very against in-fighting, and highly values a cohesive team.

            Even let us point out the example of the 920 development. There was an interview with one Nokia guy who said that during 920 development there was some in-fighting between designers and engineers, and product planners. He said engineers refused to add wireless charging, which is what designers and product planners wanted. It took the leadership of senior Nokia members under Elop to stop the in-fighting and provide a clear strong direction for the 920. Wireless charging was included that was the end of it.

            Nokia is thinking very-long term, and when they hired Elop, and when Nokia decided to end Symbian and Meego development, they were thinking long-term.

            We are slowly starting to see the fruits of their long-term thinking. They made a profit in Q4, and devices like the 920 remain popular, while the 620 is gaining big popularity. I think this year and going into next year Nokia will see some nice success.

            Nokia has basically “reinvented” itself in the eyes of consumers. I don’t think going with the Meego strategy would have been enough to reinvent itself in the eyes of consumers. That and Nokia would be slower on the hardware side because they’d have to focus on Meego software development.

    • zlutor

      What would prevent Nokia being on pair with Samsung, really?

      scale – same
      reach – same or better
      build quality – same or better
      carrier relationship – same or better
      know-how – better
      brand – same or better (at that time)

      So, Nokia could easily go with Android AND WP AND MeeGo – at the same time. And they could have let the market decide…

      But they did not do so – for one reason or an other…

      • Peter L

        You should read the comment section of this article:

        In there CD-host explains quite thoroughly why Nokia could NOT have easily gone with all three together.

        Spoiler: It’s about parts business.

        • nn

          You know, I like it when people, especially Nokia fans, passionately argue that Nokia couldn’t do this and couldn’t do that, basically that it is just bunch of inept know-nothings who have one last hope – lend themselves into the caring hands of MS. Because mobile masters from Redmond will tell them what their OS will look like, what it will or will not do, what HW parts they can use, how they can do deals with carriers, etc.

          And if it all turns out to be massive failure, it’s because they are more inept than we thought, that even the mighty MS has hard time saving them!

        • zlutor

          So, Nokia could not do it but Samsung could – actually Samsung did it/does it!

          At that time Nokia was THE dominant mobile phone market playet (from many aspect if not all). They could do whatever they wanted to do…

          Or, let say it with other words: they could do anything what any other player wanted to do.

          Maybe Apple is the only exception but not Samsung, for sure…

          • dss

            Samsung is the main reason Nokia can’t do Android..

            • nn

              I never understood how Nokia could escape Samsung by committing to WP. It doesn’t make sense even if somebody bothered to first check that the OS is actually competitive with Android.

              And while it might been relevent when they thought that sales of tens of millions Lumias and 20 % share is a given thing, at this point planning strategies about how to outmanoeuvre Samsung is like 12 years old kid building wood airplane models thinking how nicely he is outmanoeuvring Boeing and Airbus.

              If anyone attempts to launching new OS at Nokia, I’m sure it will be Android.


    78% is just awesome

    i was originally negative to the whole idea of multiple smart phones being made, i was thinking how apple became successful with just 1 device and thought nokia should do the same by concentrating on only 1 device,
    but the chart shows 610/710/800 have a 51% share, and lumia 900 has just 6%.

    • Janne

      Apple’s one device strategy was never, ever suitable for Nokia.

      Nokia’s problem wasn’t in recent years too many models, it was that they were too often lackluster products and lacked true high-end hero models. When you have a phone as great and balanced as the 920 now is, it doesn’t hurt to have cheaper models too. All the better if the cheap models are great too (looking at you 620!).

      But if all you have are cheaper models and a mixed bag at that, then lacking that high-end will hurt you – as it did with Nokia after their botched attempts to bring touch to Symbian.

      People just thought the problem was Nokia’s too many devices, when in reality the problem was Nokia’s bad devices that covered too little of the high-end. Nothing wrong with a good number of great devices that cover the entire market range.

      • beta tester

        Now that the restructuring has been done, I would expect no excuses.

        Although I’m still stuck with WP7 on a year old device, and already looking elsewhere for my next device. Too bad WP will likely never be on a phablet like device, then I’d patiently wait for it. My patience ran out the day WP7 owners were left out in the cold. Feeling like an android owner over here… :/

      • nn

        If there is one thing what 920 certainly is not, it’s “balanced”. In fact that phone is opposite of balanced, it has good HW totally killed by crappy SW.

        • Janne

          Obviously I disagree strongly. :)

          • nn

            You certainly can protest it, you can even strongly disagree, but that’s all you can do with it. People already voted with their wallets.

            • Janne

              Yes, bought as many Lumia 920s as Nokia was able to build and ship! ;)

              • nn

                Yes, they bought all of them and then more, except when they didn’t. Like with Amazon, where 920 variants were listed for weeks even at reduced prices.

                • Janne

                  Still disagree wholly. :)

                  • Janne

                    (By the way, I’m not trying to claim Lumia 920 is some sales superhero. Merely thinking that it is finally a very balanced, all around great high end smartphone from Nokia. First such device perhaps since N95 or maybe N900…)

                    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                      N900 was definitely not a balanced phone. It was a computer phone, not a balanced smartphone.

                      920 seems to be balanced. Heavy but balanced.

                    • Janne

                      Well, that is true. Hence just a maybe. :) I may be a tad bit sentimental about the N900…

                      So, not since N95 has Nokia had a true high-end, innovative contender out there. Until Lumia 920, that is. Everything in-between was constrained in some ways or others. Lumia 920 finally has the modern and innovative hardware and a modern OS too.

                  • nn

                    And yet again, you decided to disagree with reality. From the middle of December to at least the end of January Amazon was stocked with 920 and ready to deliver them the next day.

  • Ajit

    A dead “NotSoSmart”phone OS – Windows Phone.

    • arg0

      There are three mistakes in your one sentence.

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  • john

    well i would say android market is competive but if they played i am sure nokia could come in 1,2,3 they always put amazing hardware and durable phone i should not b forced i to buying a windows phone hopefully this year nokia adopt a secomd os jolla looks very promising nokia plz dont b so one track i hope for some good news 2013 if not ill wait 2014 n if no good news il give up on nokia

  • Mahoney

    There are above some discussions and I’d like to add following points to all of them:
    - Windows in mobile world is classified by statcounter in “worldwide” to “others”, where others are about 2%, I assume it is not included to “unknown”, where unknown are about 4,31%. In the same “worldwide” Symbian have 8,86% and S40 have 12,86% of worldwide market share. See
    - Windows is noticed by statcounter only in the “North America” with 1,25% (what a success after such a marketing as Nokia did) and S40 is 2,35% in the same (without any marketing) See
    - I think that 1 or even 2% of worldwide market (Windows) is far far worse then minimal minimum for such a company as Nokia. That create weak progress, weak future, weak opportunities for devs. And this is much worse then Symbian.
    - it is strange when a company is depreciating all own products (MeeGo, Symbian, Meltemi) and favouring another (Windows). Unwise.
    - it is waste of opportunities when commonly applauded product like N9 is not continued
    - when Nokia does not unveil super-hiper-duper-secret data of sale of Nokia N9 then this DOES NOT mean that: (1) N9 did not outsale other models (2) Ahonen’s calculations are completely false [see formal logic for details] (3) MeeGo couldn’t be in development&sale together with other OS, even Windows one. S40 and Asha smartphones is a proof.

    • zlutor


    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia


      That unreleased sales data concerning N9 unit sales does not make those numbers fabricated by Tomi Ahonen any more real. Someone could claim that N9 only had unit sales of half a million phones. That’s just as realistic number as is the one presented by Tomi Ahonen. There are no proof that Tomi had the correct numbers.

      It’s completely possible that N9 miserably failed in sales. Even while accounting the fact that Nokia did not push it as had as they did with WP. It’s possible that it was a failure.

      It’s also possible that MeeGo would have taken too much resources to develop.