Bill Gates does NOT say WP is a mistake; reflects solely on strategy

| February 19, 2013 | 159 Replies


Something I dislike is people bending the truth to suit their cause. Today there has been a story going around that Bill Gates said Windows Phone was a mistake. The wording of the interview was actually that Microsoft “didn’t get out early”, in terms of bringing a mobile OS to market that was competitive. Clearly this is Windows Mobile, which was essentially a shrunk down version of the desktop OS.

The second and final thing mentioned by Gates was that the “way [they] went about it didn’t allow [them] to get leadership”. Again, this does not mention Windows Phone at all, or that it is a mistake. The same can be said for Nokia with Symbian. At the time, the OS was great, but it failed to be competitive with Apple and Google.

For those who wish to see the interview, check the video below!


Category: Nokia

About the Author ()

Hi! My name is Michael. Like the others, I'm also a Student, living here in Sydney. I have a real passion for the latest technology and I'm a real Nokia buff! My aim is to keep those of you, like myself, updated with the latest in what's going on in the Nokia World. Currently sporting N9 & Lumia 820, with other Nokia devices in my posession. Get in touch on Twitter via @MFaroTusino, Google Plus or even simply drop me an email at mike.mnb[at] or tips[at]

Comments (159)

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  1. Jabde says:

    I think what I wish to see is MeeGo or Sailfish OS from Jolla and a smartphone with, because I will need a new mobile pretty soon. Greetings to Bill.

  2. nn says:

    Well, I think bill here is running into the well know WP problem – on what terms you can proclaim WM and Symbian mistake or failure, and simultaneously make WP non-failure or even success?

    Oh I know – subjective impressions about coverage on selected English tech blogs!

    • Janne says:

      Obviously Symbian was a success for great number of years. Then others bypassed it. Some feel, permanently.

      Windows Phone on the other hand is not a success in any measure. But some people do feel it will improve beyond where Symbian could have remained. Others disagree of course and feel WP will never succeed.

      So, as always, a question of which trajectory does one believe they have/had.

      • Viipottaja says:

        Or would have had. :P

      • senshi says:

        Windows Phone had won many awards for beautiful interface design – it has achieve success at least in that area.

        • senshi says:

          Also not to mention that WP user satisfaction rate is higher than Android in general too.

        • Janne says:

          Of course WP has many merits, but unlike Symbian was for a time, WP has not been a commercial success. These are facts at this time.

          Some believe WP can become a commercial success and Symbian was destined to not remain viable, of course, so that is where they differ in believed future prospects.

          Others believe otherwise.

          • everlfr says:

            trajectory? no upward momentum unless you cant tell up from down

          • nn says:

            Um, no. It’s not matter of mere believes that are all equally valid, making the decision essentially matter of flipping a coin. Elop horribly failed to anticipate trajectories of both Symbian and WP not because he just hadn’t luck in choosing the right believe, but because he refuses to step back from his believes and look at facts, at reality.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              The reality was that Symbian was collapsing and not a single person has given a reasonable explanation for why that collapse would have stopped.

              Something needs to happen in order if there is going to be a change. There was nothing happening.

              It was just collapsing.

              • rustyknight17 says:

                something was happening , Nokia Belle ! Too bad Elop sank it before it could gain a foothold …

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  Belle is hardly a competitive product. And besides, it was too little too late.

                  • rustyknight17 says:

                    Oh yes it is ; Belle is every bit the equal of its rivals . And iit`s not just me saying that , even Phonearena and Engadget , known for their anti Symbian bias , agree ! And this despite Elop`s best efforts to kill it !
                    Of course ,this won`t be true much longer …

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      It’s unstable and it lags.

                      It’s not very nice to use and it has inferior multitasking. It lacks a modern mobile multitasking.

                      Did I say that it’s a recourse hog?

                    • rustyknight17 says:

                      U clearly haven`t used Belle . I have an N8 and a C6-01 both running Belle FP1 , and both run fine ! and I use them very heavily !
                      Unstable ? Nope , unless u refer to the boot up process …
                      Lag ? Not unless I have several heavy aoos running at the same time !
                      Not nice to use meaning what ?
                      Inferior multitasking ?? Symbian is the best in the field , except perhaps bb10 ….
                      Resource hog ? Symbian was designed to be quite efficient ! Some of the Nokia app OTOH …

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      I have 808 and it lags compared to the iPhone 4S.

                      While have been able to get even the 4S to freeze, that has happened way more often with the 808.

                      It’s a resource hog because it’s not smooth.

                      And no mobile multitasking? No real notifications. Even Whatsapp must be running all the time if you want to be able to receive messages with it.

                      With the iPhone Whatsapp can be closed and it still works. The requirement to have it running all the time takes much more resources than it does on the iPhone.

                      And it’s just messy. Not very intuitive.

                    • rustyknight17 says:

                      Wowww ! As I said I have 2 S3 phones , ur 808 has twice their RAM and they rarely freeze or lag ,and I use them a LOT ! So it`s only fair to ask what u r doing with ur 808 to make it freeze ? I`m guessing u use a bunch of heavy apps at the same time !
                      I will point out in passing that the IPhone doesn`t have real multitasking like Belle does , of course it doesn`t lag as much , it freezes the app !
                      I take it that by messy u mean u don`t like the look …
                      Unintuitive I grant u to a degree t …. There`s a learning curve to Symbian , though Belle is MuCH more intuitive than S3 and Anna . Can`t comment oon s60 as I`ve not used i

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      No multitasking. The 808 just freezes when the camera is used. I pretty much use only the camera.

                      It’s just so unstable that it freezes without any additional applications.

                      No, and it’s checked. It’s not a hardware problem. It’s just the Symbian OS. It has flaws.

                      Actually the iPhone can do the multitasking it has and it still lags less than 808 without any multitasking.

                      Sorry, the 808 is just one flawed piece of design. Probably because of the Symbian OS.

                    • rustyknight17 says:

                      Thx for the info ! However , my comments above still stand.
                      Ur 808 freezes with just the cam ?!? Granted , the 808 has a MUCh more powerful cam , but it also has an additional GPU just to deal with the cam , so it shouldn`t be freezing …
                      Although I`ve never used the 808 ( yet ) , I have used several S3 and Belle phones ( N8 , C6-01 , 700, 701 ) . Based on that experience , I can tell u that either ur 808 is defective ( I encountered a very similar issue with my first N8 , which was one of the infamous first batch ! ) or else u downloaded a bad app , which can also account for these symptom s !
                      Duhhhh , as I said , the IPhone doesn`t have real multitasking unless u count freezing the app as multitasking and the vast majority of people don`t …
                      I trust u`ll forgive me if I don`t take ur opinion of the 808 as a flawed SP too seriously , since , as I remarked above , either ur 808 is defective or u have a bad app ! Cheers !

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

          Just as N9 did. So in a way N9′s MeeGo was a very similar success when compared to WP. They both won some awards, both were praised by some tech blogs and neither of them had enough sales to keep Nokia going.

          • Shaun says:

            The problem with that comparison is that the WP phones are getting billions spent on marketing whereas the N9 got almost nothing, shipped to limited countries and was declared dead at birth by its parent.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              It’s also possible that neither of those would have sold well with or without all that marketing.


              Nokia sells most of their phones to customers who already had Nokia phones. But why can’t they make people to buy a WP phone or a MeeGo phone?

              Both of those cost too much. MeeGo phones were just too expensive as are those phones based on WP.

              • Luisito says:

                The N9 was marketed at the premiun price on purpos, just to recover some money (I think)… Just looking at the hardware that’s use in the N9, it’s easy to say that it could run on much lower price spec device

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  Not low enough.

                  Nokia should have focused on sub 200€ phones with MeeGo, if they wanted to sell any reasonable quantities of MeeGo based phones.

                  Nokia no longer had enough customers buying phones with a price of over 200€.

                  • jiipee says:

                    But there are good amounts of 920′s and 820′s sold. The sales figures could be pretty high, if Nokia could deliver. That does not really correspond to your hyphoteses.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      I assumed that Lumia phones were not selling in any reasonable quantities in Q4. Not for someone like Nokia.

                      On the other hand Nokia already used a full year to build the Lumia sales. They had to start from zero, just like they had to with the N9.

                      It took a full year to build those sales and while they had some really nice growth, it’s not enough for them. Not with the costs they currently have.

                  • Luisito says:

                    Nokia Only??? Every tech company making Smartphones that isn’t chinese base or using very low end parts will have this problem… the thing isnt selling zillions ala Andrioid, the thing is selling lots in the right price ala Apple… A Meego device with US$ or Eur 200 unlocked for low end could probably sells like hotcakes (with a subidize price in contract)… Who know, who know, this is the game now

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      MeeGo was not targeted for under 200€. Meltemi was and it was supposed to be released in very late 2012 or in 2013. Later in 2013 if it was delayed.

                      So, no under 200€ MeeGo phone in 2012 no matter what.

                      Nokia would have had to start from zero sales with MeeGo and trying to get the old customers to buy a MeeGo phone instead of a Symbian phone.

                      Unfortunately there was no longer too many users left to buy those MeeGo phones.

                    • Trexus says:

                      You say that like there was no possible way to continue with Meltemi at the same time as WP. People in the know at the time dropped strong hints that it was very well advanced. Certainly not as broken as Elop & colleagues tried to insinuate a few times (albeit very vaguely, curiously enough). with that that in mind, best case scenario would’ve been end of 2012 for the 1st Meltemi phones.

                      We’re not privy to the detail of the agreement with MS, so we’ll never know, but I’d be very surprised if it restricted Nokia “completely” from using it’s own (new) platform at the same time as WP for S40 -> 710 pricing territory. If it did, I’m amazed they were so confident in agreeing to that as early as Jan 2011.

                      Then there’s the probability that former/current Symbian & Android users would’ve been more likely to find devices based around it more appealing. Not in all cases ofc, & certainly not those interested in top-end phones.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      Android is already hitting the same price segments Meltemi was supposed to target.

                      Very limited application support compared to Android. Today the problem is that Nokia is no longer selling that many 100-200€ phones.

                      So, too few customers buying those Meltemi phones.

                    • Trexus says:

                      So, that doesn’t mean you don’t hedge your bets, WP is facing similar problems… Plus in the mid to bottom-end price segments that Meltemi was to hit (i.e. just above & “at” S40 territory) the user experience (sw+hw) for those Android devices is horrid. Tons of crappy free apps doesn’t change that, the paid ones can, but people in this segment aren’t forking out for many (if any) of those.

                      They originally weren’t planing to go as low as they’ve headed, but now they’re clearly trying to push much lower than originally claimed for WP.
                      I won’t be surprised if they hit S40 territory (or very close) in the not too distant future. Heck, wouldn’t be surprised if that was one of the main reasons Meltemi never saw the light of day. It’s unfortunate, as they had a chance to divest.

                      This market segment (except for maybe it’s upper-end) doesn’t consist of users that are heavily tied to the “app phenomenon”, there’d be time/room to build-up to something respectable.
                      Especially given they wouldn’t be constricted “solely” to Meltemi…

                      And the fact that they aren’t selling anything in that segment now (which is questionable) is a red-herring, the whole point is to make something appealing in that segment, & poach Symbian/former_Symbian & Android users for WP/Meltemi.

                    • Trexus says:

                      Not subscribed*, so (sadly) I won’t be addressing responses, assuming someone does respond. BR all.

                      *soooo busy IRL lately :-/

                  • rustyknight17 says:

                    Yes they did … the N8 BY ITSELF , sold 10 million in its first yesr !

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      10 million is not that much. Very little actually.

                      On the other hand Nokia never said it sold even that many units.

                    • rustyknight17 says:

                      Very little compared to what ? The IPhone ? Maybe …
                      I beg to differ 10 million FOR ONE MODEL in one year is very respectable ! And my source is Wikipedia`s list of best selling phones .
                      And keep in mind this is only one of the S3 models . I`ve been told , and watching Amazon certainly backed this up , that the other s3 phones , except the X7 , also did quite well . The C7 , for instance AIUI did very nearly as well as the N8

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      10 million is very little for a company like Nokia.

                      Wikipedia page for N8 didn’t show that number. It however had a claim of 4 million units sold in Q4 2010 but the source was not too reliable either. Wikipedia has lots of those very unreliable sources.

                      But if only 10 million was true.

                      Having so few sales explains why WP isn’t selling. Not too much existing customers because Symbian was not selling too well in high end.

                      According to the ASP they were not selling very many high end phones.

                      And later N8 wasn’t even high end.

                    • rustyknight17 says:

                      I refer u to my post above . I gave u the specific Wikipedia page , go look it up .
                      10 million is more than Nokia sold last quarter . And again , that figure is just the N8 in its first year ! That doesn`t include the other S3 models , most of which did nearly as well ..

              • rustyknight17 says:

                What Meego phones ? There was only one …

  3. Harangue says:

    Those who thought Bill meant WP are, well, idiots. He clearly meant the were to late to the game with WP and weren’t on top of their game when the iPhone came out. He also mentions WM (Windows MOBILE) to be a bit of a fail although that isn’t mentioned literally but it is implied.

    • Viipottaja says:

      +1. Wish Ali was not so sensation seeking with his headlining too at times, frankly. ;)

    • Pathetic says:

      c’mon, always the same story haha, he (Bill Gates ) just said the truth (and we all knew that) WP is a huge mistake and I always said that here. this is not a mystery, see the facts, have 2 % market share in two years, burning money on marketing and advertising, giving away phones at bargain after bargain , and only have 2% of market share. if this is not an mistake then what is?.
      Elop ‘s disease is contagious, (distorted reality) f*cking crazy people

      • xxx says:

        It’s a big success, it still has 2% of market share. Nokia is the main player in WP ecosystem. We should help Mr Elop. We should create a natural preserve for WP ecosystem. Think about small, weak, tiny apps. Let’s give them a chance.

      • Harangue says:

        WP being a failure or not is something different altogether and I’m not saying that isn’t a failure or succes. What I do say is that Gates didn’t say that WP was a fail, he merely stated they were late to the game in mobile and that is where they failed.

        People (in general) need to start reading stuff carefully before replying to anything. As it stands I too would say WP is failing in the market.

        • rustyknight17 says:

          No , what Gates said is that yes they were late and the way they went about it didn`t get them the leadership and was cle .
          arly a mistake
          While Gates didn`t specify either WM or WP , he DID specify cell phones , which in the context of Microsoft would mean both WM AND WP . Since Gates didn`t specify which , the logical conclusion to draw is both .

  4. Peter says:

    When I heard this “story” I immediately thought that “This is exactly the kind of interpretation FUD Tomi Ahonen would make and spread around”.

    I checked the Twitter and I was right.

    • capedonut says:

      Yeah, he is quite highly invested in that narrative

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

      It should be obvious to anyone that Tomi Ahonen fabricates numbers and is spreading lies about Nokia. He should not be trusted.

      On the other hand Tomi’s blog seems to be quite valuable source of misinformation. If he claims something, the truth is usually quite opposite.

      This does not apply to everything he says.

      • Pathetic says:

        yeah right, hahahahah XD, appoints some lies you’ve seen on his blog

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:


          Tomi claimed that Nokia sold 1,75 million N9 phones in Q4 2011.

          Nokia never released the unit sales for N9 and Tomi has failed to provide a reliable source for his claim.

          Tomi Ahonen fabricated that number.

          • xxx says:

            He calculated it. He got numbers how many WP devices has been sold, how many smartphones has been sold by Nokia. He is using data prepared by Gartner and many other analyst.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              No he didn’t.

              No person ever has those calculations when asked.

              Tomi Ahonen fabricated those unit sales.

              Besides, Gartner told that 1,75 million in Q4 2011 was not possible.

              • jiipee says:

                I wouldnt trust either. Gartner obviously paid no attention to N9 sales. The opposite goes to Tomi. He paid just enough attention to find a figure probably from All about symbian blog.

                Nokia’s Quarterly review gives the best picture of N9s sales levels giving credit to N9 ahead of Lumia on APS increase.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  The point was that it’s not reasonable to claim that Tomi has the correct data because he uses information from analysts like Gartner. Not when Gartner is actually claiming that Tomi’s data can’t be valid.

                  I don’t really believe either one had a correct number.

                  Nokia’s quarterly report says that N9 as one of the reasons for a better ASP. Considering the ASP N9 had and what Lumia had at the time, N9 unit sales could have been anything between 200 000 – 2 000 000 units if the only criteria is that it gave some increase to the ASP.

                  That’s why even that really proves nothing about unit sales N9 had.

            • rustyknight17 says:

              yes he did , as I and several others dod on All About Symbian and here . We took the available info and made educated guesses based on that !

          • noki says:

            Ling again about this subject? SHAME ON YOU
            You area an embarrassing excuse for a human.


      • xxx says:

        Yes, he is an ugly creature because he estimated Nokia collapse 2 years ago. He should be like all other analysts (payed by Ms) and he should estimate a big grow.

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

          Stop pretending.

          • xxx says:

            Everybody in AAS forum were afraid about Nokia after Elop’s memo in February 2011. I still remember that, it wasn’t a rocket science to estimate what happened later. If you think that Ahonen is wrong, please show us where, and compare his estimates to another ones. Why Elop hides information about N9? He is responsible for rumours and bad reputation of Nokia. Best regards from snowy country.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              It wasn’t rocket science to understand what was going to happen because Symbian was already collapsing long before that memo.

              You can’t even notice the Feb 11. making any change from the chart illustrating Symbian’s market share between 2009 and 2012.

              It was going to happen with or without the burning platform memo. No doubt about that.

              About N9 unit sales. Nokia rarely releases any unit sales. It has happened but they don’t usually do it. Nothing special in that.

              Symbian is responsible for Nokia’s bad reputation.

              • GordonH says:

                I understand your theory… Keep twisting facts and repeating praises for Elop+MS and then maybe people will forget history and logic.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  That’s hardly just a theory. Charts clearly illustrate that Symbian was collapsing long before Feb 11.

                  You have been reading too much those lies from Tomi Ahonen. He may be fabricating but that doesn’t mean that everyone else makes lies just like he does.

                  • GordonH says:

                    Keep on doing it. Twist the facts by bringing up Tomi, I don’t read him.
                    Trying to change historical facts by not bringing up some charts that showed symbian sales rising and profiting.
                    Symbian might not have made the biggest revenues but it was a real business.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      Unfortunately I’m telling the truth.


                      Symbian was collapsing and those few low end devices Nokia was selling, was not going to change that.

                      It was destined to collapse because it was not a very good product.

                      It was not going to be a real business because people were no longer that interested about it. Feb 11. never made that happen.

                    • RVM says:

                      Sadly, WP is doing even much worse than Symbian ever did. And im very doubtful if it ever reaches Symbian’s market share in jan 2011.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      Symbian was collapsing. It was going to lose all those sales it had, no matter what.

                      You don’t just want to accept that.

                      Nokia was like war time Germany. Losing on all fronts and the leaders claiming that the new wonder weapons will change everything. But just like in Germany, those wonder weapons were too little too late.

                      They didn’t accept the collapse just like some Nokia fans don’t.

                    • GordonH says:

                      I know what you do… keep repeating half-truths to protect WP at all cost.

                    • RVM says:

                      Ok, once again: WP was and still is collapsed. And there are no signs of change.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      No, it’s not collapsed.

                      It just never got that real traction Nokia needed. Nokia did not succeed with WP.

                      They didn’t have the customers buying those high end phones so it was almost an impossible mission to succeed with WP.

                      Just like it would have been almost impossible to succeed with MeeGo. They just didn’t have enough existing customers.

                    • RVM says:

                      WP failed with Nokia, with HTC, with Samsung, with Dell, with LG and with every other company that tried it. It’s fail OS, which no one likes.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      And Symbian collapsed because it was no longer a relevant product.

                  • xxx says:

                    Symbian wasn’t collapsing. In Q4 2010 they sold 25 mln smartphones (the best result in Nokia history). If you compare whole 2010 year, they sold 50% more smartphones than in 2009. In 2011 after Elop disaster they sold 50% less. They sold 50% less smartphones in 2012. There is no reason to kill cash cow like Symbian if you sell more and more phones every year. WP strategy failed.

              • rustyknight17 says:

                No , Nokia was responsible , they made the decisions !

  5. says:

    it should be ……

    ” steve ballamer as ceo is our greatest biggest mistake ”


  6. Jerry Werien says:

    When this is such a success then why statcounter displays no WP or around 1% of market share? Just asking only?

  7. indigo says:

    It’s a shame to see Michael Faro Tusini, who always fought for the Nokia N9, now clearly defending Windows Phone.
    How things change… This blog nowadays is a WP advertisement page.

    • Viipottaja says:

      LOL. Love the picture on next to your name too.

    • Deaconclgi says:

      Do you want me to write some Symbian articles? I can’t really find anything new from Nokia concerning Symbian to write about, even less for Meego.

      Let’s be fair and honest.

      • noki says:

        partly agree, and its Nokias fault any way, news from Nokia should reflect they business model so S40 and dumb-phones 40% of the news NSN 50% Lumia 10%.

        MNB just reflects how Nokia promotes itself. Its all about WP in Nokia land.

        • Deaconclgi says:

          I have to agree that maybe we could balance things out, maybe not to the exact percentages… :)

          We need to get our hands on more S40 devices and Nokia dumb phones.

          If anyone at Nokia is reading, MNB would love to broaden our coverage horizon, please let us know how we can get a couple of S40 and non smartphone review units. I am up for the task.

          • Viipottaja says:

            I did not realize you were one of the MNB writers. Do you write under that same name, can’t recall it? :)

            • Deaconclgi says:

              Yes, I write under the same name. I have been with MNB for about 2 years. I haven’t written any substantial articles since last summer.

              I’ve had a big relocation and career change and it hasn’t afforded me the time that I used to have nor the funds to splurge on Nokia tech like I used to.

              Hopefully when I finish my degree and get settled in to my new career, I’ll be back to writing more often.

              Here is one of my last articles:


              Click my gravatar to visit my YouTube page to see many videos that have been featured on MNB throughout the years.

              Thank you.

          • Keith too says:

            Unless there is big revenue news about S40 or NSN I don’t think many here would want to read about it. The techie’s here like reading about new technology–WP’s successes or in Noki’s case its failings, Sailfish, Asha etc. The current mix seems about right to me.

    • Hypnopottamus says:

      Or maybe he just happens to like and use WP. Couple that with the fact there is little to nothing to report about Symbian or MeeGo. This is a NOKIA blog. Nokia uses WP OS. What’s so hard to understand about that?

    • migo says:

      Nokia iska WP company at the moment, no point in fighting that if you’re a Nokia fan.

  8. everlfr says:

    ms will not survive to compete in 10 years if they keep playing only catch ups.

  9. RVM says:

    Well, WP certainly is a mistake.

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

      Not as big mistake as staying with Symbian was.

      Unfortunately WP is not the problem.

      Problem was that Nokia didn’t replace Symbian with Maemo long time before N900 was released. If Nokia wanted to tay competitive, they should have developed Maemo so that they would have been able to replace high end Symbian sales with Maemo phones no later than 2008 or early 2009. After that time it was too late if they wanted to be number one phone manufacturer.

      If they had released MeeGo in 2010, it could have been possible that Nokia had the third ecosystem. In 2011 it was just too late. It could have been too late in 2010 but at least there was a slight chance for success.

      Blaming Elop for all this is just stupid. He may not have saved Nokia from the disaster but he and his actions were not the reason for the collapse.

      • RVM says:

        I agree with Maemo part. However, adopting WP was even worse mistake than staying with Symbian. Now we can see the results – company with best HW is struggling to survive because of incompetent OS. I had Lumia 800, now i have Lumia 610 (as my secondary phone), and all i can say is, that WP can barely be considered a smartphone. It’s miles behind Belle FP2 in 808.

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

          I don’t understand.

          Nokia was already suffering because Symbian was an “incompetent” OS. If Nokia had continued with Symbian, they would have ended with approximately same sales they have today. Now why on earth would that be a better choice?

          I have 808 and it’s definitely not a modern smartphone. The Symbian OS is something from the past, a relic. Not something people would like to have when they can buy some nice phone with Android or iOS.

          • Luisito says:

            Who know… You can say anything about Symbian, but there were lots of Symbian loyals, more than MS ones… Today nobody can really explain how Nokia could still be selling millions of Symbian powered devices, despite the bad mounting on basically every website of the world, things weren’t soo wrong as people point (I think), I know the “Those were mostly cheap devices” theorema, explaining why those numbers, but at that time there were cheap Android devices too.

            Symbian has its problems, right, nobody (in his sane) could denied that; it needed a replacement, debatable; it could or couldn’t be fixed, debatable; Nokia scraping all their own SW effors, mistake; choosing an OS that’s in the antipodes of what you have been bringing to yours users (in funtionality), is the bigest Mistake ever made.

            If Nokia will have a chance of becoming one dominant force or at least being a real challenger for top spots, they must be making presure on MS to bring if not all, most of those funtionalities. I love Nokia hardware, but I wouldn’t married to something that won’t serve me!

          • RVM says:

            If Nokia didn’t kill Symbian, and introduced new generation of Symbian smartphones with dualcores and higher resolution display, there would be at least 3x higher sales of Symbian smartphones in 2013. Think about it – they still sold more Symbian smartphones than Lumias, even if Symbian is long-time declared dead and with no new products (except niche 808).

            U may call Symbian not a modern smartphone. But at least it’s smartphone. WP might be modern, but it’s definitively not a smartphone. It’s more like software in microwave owen.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              If Symbian was a competitive product it would be selling. However it was not possible to improve it so much that it would have been a competitive product.

              Starting from zero sales is a hard thing to do. That same applies to MeeGo and WP.

              Even the iPhone didn’t sell several million in one quarter when it was released back in 2007. They had to start from zero. Even while it was a killer product back then.

              You have to have a modern smartphone if you want to get some real sales. Symbian was not one.

              • GordonH says:

                “You have to have a modern smartphone if you want to get some real sales. Symbian was not one.”

                That is where the proper solution is proper engineering and talented coders.

              • RVM says:

                once again i tell u: WP is not a smartphone OS.

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  Whatever it is, it’s better than Symbian.

                  • RVM says:

                    It’s not. WP is not even close to Symbian. I own 808 and owned Lumia 800, so i can compare.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      I used an Lumia phone for a while and I have 808.

                      First of all, 808 lags and it’s unstable.

                    • RVM says:

                      Well, L800 does not lag, however my 808 is only a bit slower, but can do 300% more. When i used L800, i realized that WP is so limited and has so bad battery efficiency, that sometimes i asked myself if i need it at all. WP is basicly unusable OS for everyone with a bit higher expectations. It would be good in 2008-2009, but not in 2013.

              • rustyknight17 says:

                No it wouldnt be selling because Elop , and the Nokia Board , r firmly convinced that on freezing the app as multitasking aninly trends originnating in the USA will succeed . Last time I checked , neither Symbian , Meego , nor Meltemi r American .
                Further , Elop deliberately torpedoed both Symbian and Meego before they could get off the ground in order to eliminate dangerous rivals . I`m convinced that Elop deliberately leaked those Nokia/Ms alliance and the upcxoming burning platform memo rumours back in 12/2010 to sink both Symbian and Meego , consequences be darned !

        • migo says:

          There could have been no worse mistake than staying with Symbian.

      • jiipee says:

        That is one of the what-ifs. There are a plent of other valid scenarios also including total rewrite of Symbian.

        The main issues was wrong operating model and lack of software vision.

  10. rustyknight17 says:

    Nice try Michael , but ur POV isn`t going to fly !
    I saw that interview and Gates did say that MS didn`t get out there early enough in terms of a competitive OS as u note and also that ” the way we went about it didn`t allow to get leadership ” and so clearly it was a mistake .
    Gates specified cell phones in these remarks . He did NOT specify either WM or WP . indeed , he was careful not to say anything specific …
    Since neither WM nor WP has been successful , as in not allowing , as Gates put it , to get leadership, given that Gates didn`t specify which OS(es ) he meant , the logical conclusion is that Gates meant both . Further , he said that that it was clearly a mistake ( the way they ( MS ) Went about it 0 , so , again , the logical conclusion here is that BOth WM and WP were mistakes .
    I find it ironic that u r castigating others for bending the truth when u r doing it too .

    • Keith too says:

      Micheal has a much better grasp of if than you. Obviously Gates doesn’t think WP is a mistake and that is clear by his other recend comments on the subject.

      • rustyknight17 says:

        U need to watch the video again .
        I and Michael r talking ONly about the CBS interview and the resulting stories .
        As I stated above , Gates specified cell phones in the interview . He also stated that the way we ( MS ) went about it didn`t get them the leadershi[ so clearly it was a mistake . Gates DID NOT specify either WM or WP . If u don`t believe me , go watch the interview .
        Cell phones would cover both WM and Wp . Since Gates didn`t specify which OS(es ) , the logical conclusion is that he meant both . The corollary here is that WP is a mistake too.
        And I`m going to invoke the sources please requirement on Gates` “other comments on the subject” .

        • Keith too says:

          He was talking about their beginnings in mobile and it’s totally obvious to me that he was referring to Windows Mobile. I guess you and Ali are just not very perceptive.

          • rustyknight17 says:

            Gates did not specify beginnings , sorry !

          • rustyknight17 says:

            U r drawing unwarranted conclusions . Gates did Not specify beginnings…

            • rustyknight17 says:

              Sorry computer messing up lol !
              Gates only specified cell phones in relation to beginnings . We can`t draw any solid conclusions about what Gates meant , except as follows , as he didn`t specify whether he meant WM , WP or both !
              Part of the problem with determining what Gates meant is that WM was originally a PDA OS ; only later was it adapted for cell phones . This muddies the waters considerably .
              the other part of the problem is WP . WM and WP r nothing alike , they don`t even share the same kernal!Thus a valid and strong argument can be made that WP constitutes a new beginning for MS . If memory serves , Ballmer said something along those lines .
              Given this , Gates COULD have meant WM only , but as he didn`t specify , the logical answer is both ! Cheers !

  11. RVM says:

    Just face it. WP was a terrible mistake, it’s probably the worst mobile OS in the market today. If not Nokia’s hardware capabilities, it would be dead by now.

    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

      Probably a better choice Symbian would be at this time.

      It costs less. People don’t seem to understand this. Nokia would be dead with minimal Symbian sales and with the costs of Symbian development.

      They should have killed Symbian already in 2009 or 2008.

      • GordonH says:

        You also need to learn to disagree by not replying to every comment.

      • RVM says:

        Nokia was like a guy who had some small issues with paying his rent (=staying with Symbian). Decision he made was to rob a bank (=adopting WP). That was risky and unfortunately he got caught. Now, instead of having small issues with paying rent, he’s in huge troubles.

        Maybe ditching Symbian and staying with WP cost less. But Nokia’s WP sales are almost non-existent now. They managed to shrink their costs twice, but at same time they managed to shrink their receipts ten times.

        • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

          It’s better to have those WP sales they have today compared to the Symbian sales with those enormous costs.

          Symbian was going to die anyway, so why continue pouring good money into it?

          • RVM says:

            I’m not saying they should have stayed with Symbian for next 20 years. I’m just saying that picking WP was huge mistake and that so far Lumia selling numbers are proving WP transition failed.

            • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

              What could they have done?

              There really was almost no customers left for WP.

              Replacing Symbian with 100€ Android phones?

              • Luisito says:

                Why not???… You must walk after run… At this point I can say that if WP doesn’t start to fly off Nokia is done…

                • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                  Nokia no longer had a volume advantage in low end smartphones. It would have been very hard to compete with those.

                  It’s also probable that most Symbian users didn’t choose a phone from Nokia if Nokia was just an Android OEM.

                  So, selling not too many low end Android phones?

                  • RVM says:

                    After 2 years we can safely say that any other option would be better than adopting WP. Going MeeGo would be good option, especially if Android app compatibility would be allowed. Even going Android would be better option (and im definitively not Android fan).

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      Actually MeeGo would have been a worse choice.

                      More cost and probably no more sales.

                    • RVM says:

                      That’s highly unlikely. People liked MeeGo. People don’t like WP. Many people dislike Metro UI and even more people just hate Microsoft.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      The actual problem Nokia has is with the customers they have. At the time of the release of N9 and WP, they had very little high end sales left.

                      It was not possible to replace low end sales with high end sales.

                    • RVM says:

                      You act like if it’s problem of Nokia. Actually people hate WP not only on Lumias, but also on every other manufacturer’s HW. And sales numbers proves it.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      It’s Nokia’s fault they can’t sell it.

                      On the other hand it’s not iOS or Android.

                    • RVM says:

                      Nokia can’t sell it, HTC can’t sell it, Samsung can’t sell it, LG can’t sell it, ZTE can’t sell it, Dell can’t sell it. Problem is clearly in WP.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      If you didn’t notice, only iOS and Android really sells.

                      However Nokia had no longer that many high end customers left.

                      They lost the high end in 2009 and 2010 because of Symbian.

                    • RVM says:

                      Seems you have some reading comprehension issues. No point to waste more of my time.

                    • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

                      It’s very likely that you just don’t understand how Symbian ruined Nokia.

                      Maybe you are such a fanboy that it’s not possible for you to understand.

          • Francis says:

            You hav not do your research properly. Nokia is making loss for every WP sold now, up to 49% cost. However, Nokia making profit for every Symbian phone sold, up to 19%.

            WP, is no turning back route for Nokia, unless drastic management change, such as replace CEO.

  12. MadridKing says:

    You tell that Ali, your in house sensationalist writer.

  13. GordonH says:

    “Reflects solely on strategy” i.e. WP7

    • GordonH says:

      Now, with a device like the N9, running a full Linux distro, which captured significant attention, AND also a developer base which had been cultivated, and just waiting to jump onboard, there was already a vibrant ecosystem. In fact the Nokia Store was the second highest grossing store after Apples’s.
      I can’t believe you just swallow Elop’s meaningless management buzz word crap and repeat it.
      WP7 was a big flaw and Elop dragged Nokia into it.

      • Jyrki Sukula ottaa voiton Ramskista says:

        Actually Nokia Store wasn’t the second one in revenues. Only in software sales and that was not enough for someone like Nokia.

        Nokia failed with the store.

        MeeGo would have succeeded just as well as WP did. There were not enough high end customers left. Nokia already lost those when the high end Symbian sales collapsed in 2009 and 2010.

        Talking about a full Linux distro means next to nothing. It’s the actual product that matters and the swipe UI was not never proved to be something the real customers liked.

        There were very few applications and old Symbian applications could not be ported to MeeGo.

  14. When I originally commented I clicked the “Notify me when new comments are added” checkbox and now each time a comment is added I get several
    emails with the same comment. Is there any way you can remove people from
    that service? Thanks!

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