Was the Nokia 515 More Than it Seemed? A Tribute to the Nokia of Old?

| September 3, 2013 | 129 Replies

nokia-515---keddr.com-3

 

Last week Nokia announced a seemingly “normal” feature phone, the Nokia 515; with a price-tag of 115 Euros it was effectively more expensive than the entry level smartphone, the Lumia 520. At the time we chalked it up to a phone dedicated to those not interested in the fancy smartphone features, but want something classy, iconic and beautiful. The 515 embodied everything the Nokia we know (or is it knew already?) stands for, a classic device in terms of design that screams Nokia. But was it more than that?

This tweet got me thinking that the 515 could indeed be a farewell tribute from Nokia to its loyal customers, something to keep to smile back at fondly when we think of the good times we had?  The timing certainly is suspicious, and it would be a nice gesture in terms showing off the “personal” side of Nokia, which is what had me get hooked.

Even if it isn’t, I’d like to pretend that is. nokia-515---keddr.com-1Images vi Keddr.com

 

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Category: Lumia, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • t t

    There is no more Nokia as we Finnish people know it.

    • Janne

      Unfortunately, this is true – in the mobile phone sense of the work.

      Nokia the company is of course older than that, but that is far less interesting from a consumer perspective now.

      • Bob

        “Upon the closing of the transaction, Nokia would be restricted from licensing the Nokia brand for use in connection with mobile device sales for 30 months and from using the Nokia brand on Nokia’s own mobile devices until December 31, 2015“

        So what is stopping Nokia taking the cash and launching their own phone in the near future?

        They can launch their own Nokia phone after 2015 on any software platform they choose.

        • Janne

          Well, a non-competition clause could. Who knows. Also the fact that Nokia seems to be unloading most of their phone-related R&D and all manufacturing etc.

          I think a similar story way back when was then Phillips unloaded their appliances business to Whirlpool. They marketed for quite a while as Philips Whirlpool (I still remember the Finnish ad slogan: “Philips Whirlpool – saumatonta yhteistyötä (seamless co-operation)”, until all those appliances became just Whirlpool.

          Later on, Philips returned to that business I believe. But there was a non-compete clause also I think and was there perhaps a limitation on what colors (not white) they could use…

          Nokia has listed as their business now: Networks, HERE location, “Advanced Technologies”. We don’t know if there is anything brewing under the latter over a longer haul, but so far it doesn’t seem like Nokia is planning phones anytime soon after this transaction.

          • Marc Aurel

            This is completely off-topic, but: didn’t the deal involve only large appliances like washing machines, dryers, dishwashers and the like? Because I’m pretty sure Phillips branded electric razors, coffee makers and the like have been available continuously (at least in Europe) since the 1980s and even earlier. Don’t know who actually makes them today, though.

            • Janne

              It probably did, yes. It did include microwave ovens too, that I remember. I think the deal included all the “white appliances”, as in white kitchen appliances. I think Philips returned to some of these businesses later on, although today I don’t think they have big appliances anymore…

              My memory is really hazy on the details, though. :)

  • SmoledMan

    Personally I’d love a Nokia 515 as a backup cell phone to my Lumia 920. Only if I could get it on T-Mobile pay as you go plan.

    • https://www.facebook.com/groups/Nokia808PureViewPhilippines/ steelicon

      Re-issue the Nokia N82 Sharaku with modern specifications and hardware, and I’ll buy 2 units.

      • Deaconclgi

        I would too. I would still want my N-Gage 2.0 compatibility. Time for a few more rounds of One and some sleuthing in Dirk Dagger!

  • Doug

    Nokia 515 still has better UI than Windows Phone!

    • SmoledMan

      In what way is it better? Oh and you get all of 20 apps compared to 165K apps.

      • xxx

        Smart dial:)

        • sks

          Discrete volume control, full Bluetooth support, file manager. I think it also has MFE, T9 dict, keypad :)

      • sinple

        whatapp works better??

  • Krishna 6233

    Whom to blame?Nokia,ms or elop?

    • Janne

      Symbian? ;)

      • X2O

        Either you are nerd or an a** H*LE… Kindly stop harassing us even after 2 years of its murder…

        • Janne

          It was a joke, come on.

          But sure, a sad day, a lot of raw emotion on the surface (no pun intended).

          • krishna6233

            Elop :(

            • Allen

              the dicks who didn’t develop apps for nokia

  • Janne

    Maybe my memorabilia collection of white N9 and 808 PureView needs a third member. I hoped they were the only end of an era for a while, but now we are sadly witnessing another.

    Supporting Finnish phones by deciding earlier this year to support Jolla certainly got a new spin today too. At least there one got a T shirt. ;)

    • http://www.forfictionmobile.com/ zlutor

      do you have one? ;)

      • Janne

        I do.

        I don’t have a Microsoft T shirt, for those following.

        • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

          Why need a T-shirt? You have an MS tattoo somewhere right? :P

          I kid, I kid.

          • Janne

            ;) ;)

            One of the very unfortunate things here has been the notion that Nokia fans who like Lumia are some kind of Microsoft fans.

            I have never been a Microsoft fan, and I doubt I’ll become one. I think Windows 8 and Xbox have been good products though and I can at least respect that.

            • Marc Aurel

              Windows XP and Windows 7 were good products, albeit the former only after MS focused on improving the security. Even Windows 2000 before that. Windows 8; not so much, at least not for traditional workstation use.

    • akse

      Maybe buy this for one backup phone or something. Or try to get my work SIM to this phone and use my own SIM in Jolla. 2 4.x” phones is too much.

  • v.s.i

    Yes, it becomes very clear now. I only owned 2 such classic candybar phones, the 3410 and 6030. From there it was only high-end Nokias for me.

    You poor guys, Jay, Ali, Michael, Deaconclgi and all the others should have at least got one for free from that M$, for keeping the Nokia spirit alive in the rough times we’ve passed – and which lie ahead once again. Or should they gift you mymicrosoftblog.com? … /bitterness

    • Deaconclgi

      Thanks for the consideration. We appreciate it.

  • http://www.fb.com/munirrahool FireDragon

    Crazy morning, it is one crazy morning for Nokia people. But so many will be so happy to slap everyone else on the face with “I TOLD YOU SO”.

    • Ruben

      I TOLD YOU SO

  • chris wayne

    @MNB Nokia deserves an special article, maybe a good bye article?, wonder what is “what’s left from Nokia” will do with those 5 billion euro.

    • b4b4.4l1

      Skype worths $8.3 billion while Nokia ‘only’ worths $7.2 billion. Unimaginable :/

      • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

        That’s what popularity does and the power of over 500 million users/subscribers. Goodwill payment.

      • Pdexter

        Huoh, once again. MS bought half of Nokia. part that isn’t profitable and has been loosing billion euros yearly.

        Nokia still owns its patents, NSN and HERE. NSN alone is half of Nokia and has been profitable for years, as has patents that create 500 million euros yearly.

        • Marc Aurel

          If I remember correctly, NSN broke even in 2011 (Q3 perhaps?) after several quarters of losses and reached profitability only in 2012. But I agree with your basic argument: Nokia kept the best parts.

    • Bob

      Upon the closing of the transaction, Nokia would be restricted from licensing the Nokia brand for use in connection with mobile device sales for 30 months and from using the Nokia brand on Nokia’s own mobile devices until December 31, 2015″

      They are free to release a Nokia smartphone after 2015 using any OS they choose. That’s what they can do with the cash.

      It would take an R&D effort, a few small acquisitions (e.g Jolla), just to make that date.

      Its an option.

      • Jiipee

        A smart device (of any kind) can be sn option if they have kept at least some of their supply chain and hw competence in-house as well as kept the option to use all their IP themselves. Manufacturing can be always outsourced nowadays.

        Smartphones I dont believe are an option, that market is now saturated.

  • dss

    I was expecting MS to get a good deal.. but $7.1 bil is just outstanding… i am impressed

    • http://www.forfictionmobile.com/ zlutor

      Especially if the rumors were true that M$ was ready to put in not one but 4 billion USD support per year to Nokia for the partnership – I do not find the link, so I can be wrong…

      Now they got the whole pack for 7bio…

      • Pdexter

        No, they only got Devices and Services. That’s a bit less than half of Nokia in revenue and has been loosing money for past 3 years.

        $7.1 for something that isn’t prifitable is quite good deal. Nokia still keeps the profitable part, NSN, patents and HERE. Plus Advanced Technologies.

        • Marc Aurel

          Not quite. Until Q2 2011 (i.e. 2.5 years ago) the phone business was still profitable and well so. HERE, on the other hand, is still not profitable if I remember correctly, although it has been slowly improving.

  • qromodynmc

    Guys,time to make mymicrosoftblog.com. The time is come.

    • dss

      WPcentral has been doing that for a while now :)

  • dss

    Plenty of common sense in the reddit thread

    http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1lmcd6/microsoft_to_acquire_nokia_devices_services/

    tommis:

    “The sentiment here in Finland is that this whole thing is like a heist:

    1) Ex-MS Elop hired as CEO

    2) Elop runs all previous Nokia phone-sales to the ground by announcing plan to move to Windows Phone, even before product is ready

    3) When product is finally ready and selling ok, sell whole business to Microsoft for peanuts

    4) Elop goes back to working to Microsoft

    I’ll predict that withing the next few years to decade, there will be nothing left of Nokia phone manufacturing, design or development in Finland. This will have ripple effect on thousands of people working as suppliers for Nokia in Finland, not that there’s that many left after the initial move to Windows Phone…

    I love that some finnish politicians have decided to hail this sales as “an opportunity for Nokia to invent something new”. Hilarious. What is left of Nokia after this sale is a corpse.”

    well said :)

    • Janne

      That’s a beautiful story. I’m sure many people who said Nokia would be sold to Microsoft in a matter of days or weeks back in 2011 or 2012 will congratulate themselves on this sad day (even though Nokia was not sold in 2011 or 2012).

      Now, go read up on logical fallacies and see why it’s wrong. :)

      As for what’s left of Nokia, to me it seems like there is a healthy networks company there. A corpse? Hyperbole much. What is sad is that what is left isn’t at all interesting to us consumer fans. Indeed, it seems like the age of Nokia fandom is coming to a close.

      • dss

        The sad day was back in 2011.. today is just the inevitable conclusion to this fiasco :)

        fiilu:

        “This was 100% clear from the beginning. I mean the worlds biggest smartphone maker mysteriously exclusively chooses the smallest, most expensive and least modifiable NEW OS and loses their no1 spot, billions in cash and stock and has to fire people, yet they still keep the course.

        Shocking news: The new Nokia lead who used to work for the company behind this OS was only looking to benefit this company, Microsoft, and eventually sell Nokia for them. Only fanboys could have denied this.”

        Simple common sense man…

        • Janne

          There is three years of history between these days. It is one thing to believe Microsoft’s Nokia buyout discussions this spring were real, and completely another that the plan all that time ago was this one.

          I believe the spring rumors were based on real events, although the rumor was the negotiations failed, so that part probably wasn’t. It is completely another discussion whether three years ago this was a plan of Elop, Ballmer or Nokia’s board. That, given all that has happened, seems far-fetched.

          • Shaun

            Really? You’re still sticking to the belief that Elop wasn’t brought in by the board to make the devices division as attractive a proposition to Microsoft as possible?

            His past history at Macromedia and it’s selloff to Adobe should have been clue number 1.

            • Janne

              I’m not sticking to anything, but yes I do believe it is unlikely Elop was brought in by Nokia’s board in order to sell the phones to Microsoft.

              I know some believe otherwise, but that’s the way I see it.

              • nn

                That indeed is unlikely, because what Elop did was something more insidious. He irrevocably tied the company to MS, explicitly with the goal that there is no plan B and no way out. So Nokia became subsidiary of MS for all practical purposes the difference from all out ownership was that Nokia it was shareholders who were paying for all this carrying water for MS and it looked a bit better from PR point if there were nominally two separate companies behind the same product.

                And please notice, this is what Elop _did_, not some secret plan we may try to reconstruct from public pieces.

                So in this situation outright buyout is not the best option for MS. Where it went wrong is that WP is horrible OS that could not sell no matter what anyone tried to do with it. Only with Nokia blown up the salvaging the wreckage for few dollars turns out to be the best option.

                • Janne

                  We can agree Elop failed, because he failed to keep Nokia’s phone business independent (and prior to that he failed the Symbian transition and with the WP7 products). I think at the press conference today he pretty much admitted that himself too. Too many failures, in the end.

                  We also agree there probably wasn’t a conspiracy.

                  I don’t agree WP as a phone platform – or Lumia (whatever name it will continue under) – will fail in the end, though. I distinctly remember mentioning something about mediocre… ;)

                  • nn

                    Well, the failure indeed is that Nokia is no longer independent company. The problem is that this failure was born right at the 11th February, and Elop and the board apparently don’t consider this deal itself to be failure. Maybe it wasn’t obvious back then to the public, but as the details of the deal trickled in over the last two years, it became undeniable that what they wanted to do (and did) was to tie Nokia to MS forever in one way deal.

                    So what he sees as failure is just that he wasn’t able to keep this fact hidden from plain sight. Clearly the goal was to run Nokia as free HW factory for MS, if it wasn’t for WP failure and it’s total rejection by consumers, I think Elop could pull it off.

                    • Janne

                      We can agree Elop failed a lot of things.

                      Nokia, though, is still an independent company – it just isn’t going to be a mobile phone maker.

                      Now, that location, location, location got an even bigger meaning I originally intended… ;)

                      (Of course unloading HERE isn’t impossible, but I don’t think that at least is any kind of immediate plan. Later, could be? In this scenario all bets are off.)

                    • Pdexter

                      Actually Nokia is independent now. it hasn’t been in years.

                      It is now fully profitable and has billions of net cash reserves.

                    • Janne

                      Well, that’s a way to see a silver lining… ;)

                      Considering what’s left there really isn’t interesting for consumers, it is hard to get excited though.

                      The big risk was loosing Nokia’s (consumer market) independence and unfortunately that is where it came to.

                      I’m sure Lumias (under whatever brand) will continue to grow mediocrely and the WP/W8 ecosystem will grow to become a significant player, but I would have loved for that to happen with Nokia.

                      C’est la vie.

                    • v.s.i

                      Sure, Janne, c’est la vie… I bet you wouldn’t be singing nearly the same tune had somebody with a functional brain made a wiser decision more than 2 years ago.

                  • krishna6233

                    Its now time to accept Elop was a trojan :(

                    • Janne

                      Unlikely.

                      But he did fail as a Nokia CEO.

                    • BellGo

                      Janne.. I simply can’t see how you can claim Elop being a Trojan horse is “unlikely.”

                      .. Come on.

                  • http://www.forfictionmobile.com/ zlutor

                    “I think at the press conference today he pretty much admitted that himself too. Too many failures, in the end.”

                    Oh, what a honest man…

                    And after making that many mistakes he still head of Nokia’s devices business and will lead it inside M$, too…

                    And gets Xbox division as well.

                    Hmmm, is it normal? ;-)

                    • http://www.forfictionmobile.com/ zlutor

                      All in all, I think anyone – even a CEO – can mistakes. Sometimes many mistakes.

                      But making SO many mistakes/bad decisions that always help one while its own company suffers from it AND still keeping its job – well, well…

                      What we can say it does not happen too often in business world. E.g. how many ‘mistakes’ Leo Apotheke did?

                      Of course, Nokia’s BOD saw it all and did not do anything – that would be good to know why…

                    • Janne

                      FWIW I wouldn’t have kept Elop around after this one, but I don’t have the votes to support that opinion. ;)

              • dss
      • edi_opteron

        Janne. Stop spreading nonsense logical theories.
        Are you aware of what you’re talking about? Nokia with is’s long history of phone making now convert to a network company? location service company? are you that fool to neglect the history of Nokia?
        I know you will reply me some freaking comments like WP will take off! You still got Nokia brand on the upcoming Lumia phones ( not sure) and etc… shame.

        • Janne

          I know more about Nokia’s history than you’ll probably ever know. I appreciate it. Those who know me, know my motivation in supporting Nokia products has a lot to do with this legacy and supporting local Finnish products. So, this is a sad day.

          I couldn’t care less about Microsoft, although I do think Windows 8 is a great product.

        • Pavel H.

          I’m not Janne, but let me give you one example – IBM and selling off PC unit to Lenovo. IBM become much stronger and successful company in later years.

          If I remember the numbers correctly, around 32K employees moving to MS, 56K staying with Nokia, that doesn’t sound like the end of a company to me.

          On the other side, it is still a sad day, seeing Nokia leaving mobile phone business… for now? I’m not huge MS fan myself, even I like WP.

          • joyride

            Right, but consumer PCs weren’t IBMs flagship division when they sold it off. Smartphones very much are Nokia and Nokia very much are smartphones. RIP.

            • Dave

              IBM always had multiple divisions.

              And in case you hadn’t noticed, Nokia had multiple divisions. One of them being instrumental in the infrastructure side of mobile telephony

              And that part hasn’t been sold off.

              So the chances of iPhones and Samsung phones connecting through to the internet via Nokia networking kit are very, very high.

              Nokia as a mobile manufacturer died many years ago, it just took them a while to stop moving. The death happened well before Elop appeared – he just pushed the knife in a teeny bit further.

      • Marc Aurel

        Nokia’s electronics business started out in many ways as mimicking Ericsson back in the day (1960s) and now they are mimicking them again. Sell the consumer business and concentrate on the more stable business to business infrastructure products.

        Whether this strategy is correct remains to be seen, but in the short term it certainly was in the interests of the major shareholders. It is the minor ones who still believed in Nokia as a Finnish and/or independent mobile phone company who will feel betrayed, but they will have no say in the matter.

      • mirco

        Janne, you seemed to me a sane person, and a “the glas is half full” guy. But when I read your latest contributions, I am seeing unnecessary bitterness. Nokia as a company has changed almost like no other in the world. From a paper mill over rubber boots and tires to TVs and mobile phones (and whatever I didn’t mention). It can be seen that change is an inherent process of Nokia.
        Now, in the worst case all heritage of Nokia as a mobile-phone could be burned by Microsoft. Yet, that has to be seen in the future. When Lenovo bought the PC business of IBM many people saw this as the end of the ThinkPad. However, it simply wasn’t true. There is still a chance that the future devices of Nokia/Microsoft will turn out even better than now. Anyway, the 1020 will still take outstanding pictures and feature class leading hardware design just like its relatives of the current line up. Isn’t that interesting as a consumer fan? We don’t know what’s next to come but certainly the same peopel will still design the phones and the influence of Microsoft might not be bad at all (the design language of the Surface is pretty much in line with the Lumia series).

        My deeper concerns point towards the future of WP itself. It has to be seen if other OEMs would ever consider a serious second generation of WP8 devices now. In the worst case, Microsoft will have to lift the whole ecosystem alone (not that Samsung and HTC were of any help recently).

        Also, it has to be seen if there will be negative effects on the current traction of Lumia devices. In some markets, Nokia is fighting against a bad reputation. In Germany, for example, there was the Bochum “scandal” and starting from the N97 all subsequent symbian smartphones were considered as inferior. With the Lumia line up perception started to change again. However, now it could be Microsoft’s bad perception in Germany “driving” the sales. But still… only future will tell.

        • Janne

          Yes, mirco, you are right – I have let the past year get to me. All the cynical attitudes online have certainly chipped away from the fun of this hobby.

          As for the news today, they are merely sad to me. I look at them, as I look at everything, as realistically as I can. I don’t think this is good news for Nokia fans and I wouldn’t dare of trying to spin it that way.

          For the fans of WP8/W8 products, this is probably quite neutral news. A storm that will go over. But then I’m a Nokia fan, and a Finn, and for my perspective this is bad news.

          Nokia, the company, will of course weather on and hopefully one day do something real interesting again. But without the consumer-side it will be less interesting from a hobbyist perspective.

          • Jiipee

            Im mostly sad about the implications to the Finnish software and engineering ecosystem. MS has no need for Finnish sub-contractors – they may cost half what a US developer cost, but a lot more than work eg in India.

            The oddest thing today has been that Elop stays as the head of D&S business. A person, who has just failed in every single strategy pillar and has a track-record of only selling businesses. Id like to interview a bunch of his subordinates, how much they appreciate their boss.

            In the end of the day all comes to the incompetence of the board. Ollila got to stay for too long, he created to bureocratic culture, OPK was nominated and everything was finalized by choosing Elop (possibly due to pressure of some major owners). Had they made a better choise – potentially internal or external who knows both sw & hw – they could have executed faster with MeeGo.

            As a very small shareowner Id be interested to know, if Nokia could still sell their Meego&Meltemi know-how. They have no value for it now and there is no threat either. Dunno how useful it is, if there are no sw competence within Nokia anymore. (need to check, if they canceled some of the sw related dev openings for CTO office)

            Sad, sad day, but could be expected.

      • tom

        What is left of Nokia is what was not run by Elop? See the irony there?

    • nn

      I think there is error in point 3). Lumias are not selling ok (and never were), which is why Nokia has to end that business. Of course for those who lived in the lalaland Lumia successful sales this is shocking development.

      • Janne

        Lumia’s are selling OK. Asha probably isn’t selling OK anymore. But sure, we can agree Elop failed to get things done fast enough (of course some believe the reason is a conspiracy, but as far as I can recall neither you or, of course, I believe that).

        We can see what is happening over at BB, it is a hard market for third players. The “MeeGo proxy” company is failing bad.

        • nn

          So if the Lumia business is OK/success/whatever, why is Elop selling it then? The funny thing is that by doubling down on your Lumia-is-success delusion you are only fuelling the conspiracy theories that Elop is trojan horse stealing good parts of Nokia and delivering them to MS at silver plate.

          • Janne

            Elop isn’t selling squat, the board is.

            Reason: I think it is because the devices & services unit couldn’t be gotten profitable fast enough, because Lumia’s progress was mediocre and Asha was failing spectacularly and fast. We’ll see when the numbers come.

            I seriously doubt Lumia as a product will fail. If it does, in the end, I’ll let you know I was wrong. :) But it (with Asha) did fail to save Nokia’s independence.

            • nn

              First, what do you mean that you have yet to tell if Lumia is or isn’t failure? I thought you already decided to declare it success after Q4?

              Second, so the “little” problem was that it wasn’t able make profits fast enough. By which you mean that over two years it turned company that was back then the biggest guy in the sector by far and was delivering profits in billions to cratering loses and complete vanishing of market share, in effect forcing the company to entirely quit that field.

              Well, now that MS finally owns all the show also on paper, not just in practice, I really do hope Lumia keeps delivering this sort of success/non-failure.

              • Janne

                No, I don’t recall declaring Lumia a success. I said it won’t be any kind of big success (as in, there won’t be any tens of millions of quarters coming even after ramp-up), but it would continue to become a mediocre seller/mediocre success. I think it will continue on that road, now with Microsoft.

                But together with the slowness of that and Asha failing, and thus the slowness of returning to profitability there, it seems to be Nokia board considered their options and found this the best for the shareholders.

                I still expect Lumia (or whatever Microsoft will call it), basically become the third ecosystem and it will probably do relatively well in the end. Too bad Elop failed and Nokia failed to retain their independence as a phone manufacturer.

                Oh yes, Elop failed for sure. Lumia, as a product, not so much. You’ll see it grow.

                • nn

                  So indeed, you declared that Lumia is not failure and that it’s success.

                  I don’t know why you want to blame it on Ashas/dump phones, this unit is one of the few that actually bring profits and keeps Nokia afloat. Interesting that the further some part of Nokia is from Elop and his mad strategies, the better results it delivers.

                  What do you mean by slowness to return to profitability? Again, you already declared after Q4 that on the financial front all is good and well, Nokia certainly isn’t going bankrupt. Then suddenly there is a problem with money so much that Nokia has to sell core assets for peanuts.

                  What is obvious that Lumia wasn’t going to be profitable in any foreseeable future. Market share is capped at 2-3 % range and even massive price cuts in Q2 didn’t went anywhere while the unit is still hundredths of millions in red. It’s simply dead end and always was.

                  And every time you try to help Elop by paint the situation as if it was all on good track, you are just cementing the story the he is trojan horse who wanted to kill Nokia and sell it to MS for laughable price before it could recover.

                  • Janne

                    Just to be clear, I’m not blaming anything on Asha – at least not until we see the latest numbers. I’m blaming slowness of returning Nokia’s devices and services to profitability. I think that was the reason for Nokia’s move – and yes, I think they would have loved to avoid that move.

                    I think both Asha/Nokia products and Lumia contributed to these woes. I do think Lumia does have the stickiness to gain ground on the market and become the third ecosystem, yes.

                    • nn

                      I still don’t know what slowness of return to profitability means here. Like that instead of being profitable in Q1 it now looks it will be in Q4?

                      Especially with the price for which MS is buying the only way out is to admit that Nokia determined Lumia won’t be mediocre success and won’t make anything close to profit in any foreseeable future. Everything else leads straight to the trojan horse theories where Elop is delivering good and crucially important business to his former-and-now-yet-again employer on silver plate.

                    • Janne

                      I have no idea what you’re talking about anymore, Willis, but I’ll let it be. :)

                • Marc Aurel

                  Windows Phone 8 / Lumia is certainly growing in units and even market share, but when will it become profitable, if ever?. Not any time soon judging from the decision of Nokia’s board.

                  If there had been profitability in view, Nokia could have just downsized its feature phone operations further and leave just the sub-$50 basic phones, which probably still are profitable. Tackle with cheap Androids when it becomes possible with WP and in the mean time try to make the most out of the existing Lumia market segments, which already cover the majority of smartphones sold in advanced economies.

                  But there was no Lumia profitability in sight with the current breadth of products, so the board decided to sell the whole shabang to MS and let them throw good money after bad, if they will.

                  • Janne

                    Good questions. As the numbers roll in eventually, we’ll see why the board felt this deal was the best one. Obviously, and Nokia has reported this prior, the return to profitability had been delayed.

                    As for Asha downsizing, I wonder how long delays there would have been. With this deal they’re getting Microsoft to absorb any such costs.

                    • tom

                      Are you not the one who said Android is wrong choice and Nokia has WP as teh only choice. Well, Nokia got royally *&#$%# by MS and I am really happy. I am not finninh even though I liked Nokia phones, I have moved on long back. The Finnish deserve what they got.

  • mirco

    On the topic… I seriously doubt that Nokia has given us the 515 as a reminiscence of the “old Nokia” (whatever that was… for people of my age, the old Nokia was a fading TV company).

    There is a market for such devices here in Germany. Phones like the 6300 and their followers with metal bodies were a true success. The prices for the 6300 are still quite high given its age (about 85€ on amazon.de). Persons who bought those phones didn’t want any smartphone but simply a sturdy and good looking phone with a battery that could last a week. They got it for free on their cheapest contracts or for a reasonable price together with a pre-paid sim.

    • Janne

      On the topic… I seriously doubt that Nokia has given us the 515 as a reminiscence of the “old Nokia”

      Of course you are right, that wast just silly sentimentalism from Ali. :)

      We’ll allow that today, it is a tough day for Nokia fans.

      • Ruben

        a tough day? this is as bad as finding out your wife is cheating on you for years… this is something nokia fans can’t handle. I can’t.

        • Janne

          Yes, I agree it is a really sad day.

          If it helps at all… and I know it won’t…

          I’ve – like many here, I’m sure – been through this many times before, in the world of technology on both the loosing and winning sides of technology/corporate rivalry. It always hurts when the ones you are rooting for fails.

          More often than not there is the feeling “why’d they give up now!”. But you’ll get over it after a while. What is great about it, the part one should always appreciate, is that because it hurts means there was something meaningful being contributed to your life. One learns to appreciate it later and remember those times fondly.

          This too shall pass.

  • Janne

    Some tidbits from the press conference:

    - CFO Timo Ihamuotila is the (temporary) CEO, chairman Risto Siilasmaa is the (temporary) President (Elop heads phones/services unit)

    - The Microsoft-Nokia sale was initiated in January 2013

    • observer

      And you believe this too! Now why is Elop considered a CEO candidate for MS if not for his successful delivery of Nokia to MS?!
      I mean you yourself admit that Elop failed for Nokia. Didn’t he succeed for MS? — The reason why he is a top candidate now!

      • Janne

        Elop failed for Nokia, sure. I agree.

        As for succeeding for MS, I think Microsoft would have wanted Lumia doing better as it originally did too.

        I find it unlikely this road was the one originally planned by any of Elop, Ballmer or Nokia’s board three years ago.

        I know the conspiracy theorists disagree, but I live by the adage, don’t attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

        In the end, Elop was incompetent for the task – or the task was too difficult to begin with (see BB for not a very rosy similar story).

        • Marc Aurel

          Comparisons to BB are quite off the mark for various reasons: much smaller global market share and installed base to begin with, much weaker consumer ecosystem beyond BBM, weaker brand outside North America and perhaps the UK, strong adherence to obsolescent form factor (portrait Qwerty), next gen OS delivered 1.5 years later than MeeGo, Symbian Belle or even (gasp!) WP 7.5…

          As for Elop becoming the next CEO of MS — many of the people saying that are the same ones who predicted good future for the Nokia/MS partnership in 2011. Microsoft’s board or Gates have not said anything about the matter yet and probably will not until they are ready to announce the new CEO.

          Now, if Elop really becomes Microsoft’s next CEO, I will start to think that perhaps there is something to the Microsoft mole theory… His performance at Nokia does not warrant another major company CEO position. Like has been said many times by me and others, Leo Apotheker was fired for smaller mistakes.

          • Janne

            I know the BB proxy isn’t perfect, but it is interesting nonetheless. They share the pain of growing an ecosystem alone in this age of a duopoly (which was already there in the time of MeeGo, since Qt on mobile wasn’t really any kind of an ecosystem yet).

            I believe Elop as the next Microsoft CEO is quite possible, then again I’ve always believed that, even before February 11th because I thought he wouldn’t stay in Finland (as his family not moving became apparent) and I thought he left Microsoft to build up his CEO credentials.

            As for Elop overall, I think firing him would have been warranted.

            • Jiipee

              I agree mostly on your view on using BB as a proxy, however, Meego & Qt werent only Nokia. Intel might not have put that much resources on Meego, but it was 100% more than with BB. LG had shown interest and was preparing first devices, even Samsung has been commented considering it. Also, there was the automotive industry participating, who may have paid a small proportion of the Meego core dev cost. There can be info not currently available to us, which may validate Elop’s and Board’s conclusions.

      • v.s.i

        Ohhh, it will serve them right, don’t you worry about that.

        I can almost see it: Stephen Elop, ex-CEO of Nokia, to head MS from January 1st, 2014. And not a day after, the share price begins taking a dive, never to recover again.

  • manu

    Tears …

    • Ruben

      just tears man, i’m crying here too, my world got sadder

  • sina88

    If I had a time machine I’d go back in time and make sure Microsoft doesn’t destroy MeeGo & Meltemi. Well I should stop day dreaming :-P

    @mynokiablog: Since you have Nokia in your name, you should talk and advertise more Jolla! Jolla is pretty much the new Nokia (better than Nokia :P). At least we can say that Jolla has more to do with Nokia than Microsoft.

    • Janne

      Well, Microsoft didn’t destroy BB10 and it really isn’t faring that well. It is hard to bring new platforms to the market these days.

      MeeGo could have worked, though. Android could have worked too. But both are speculation – they could have failed as well.

      • observer

        Stop comparing to BB10 . Meego came out even earlier than WP7 let alone BB10. Blackberry failed in its own way (too late, too slow) not because it tried with its own platform. Can’t you understand that? Or do you really have to defend Elop’s action no matter what?

        • Janne

          Since I’m calling Elop an incompetent failure above, it would seem to me I’m not defending Elop.

          As for the BB/MeeGo proxy, it isn’t perfect, but it is the best we’ve got.

          • Marc Aurel

            There is a limit beyond which analogies are so inaccurate that it’s best to avoid them completely. Nokia’s abandoning its own smartphone platforms in 2011 and choosing WP to replace them is pretty unique event, and I don’t think comparisons to RIM/Blackberry help to see the situation or options available to Nokia in 2011 any better, nor do they provide truly useful data for alternative history speculations. Bad data is often worse than no data at all…

            • Janne

              You assume I would judge the BB analogy somehow uncritically or as is, that isn’t my intention at all. But I do think there is something to be learned from, there.

              • Marc Aurel

                No I don’t assume that. What I mean is that the analogy is so inaccurate that it’s no longer useful. There is certainly something to be learned there, but just nothing related to Nokia’s smartphone business beyond February 2011. There were similarities before that, for sure, most importantly the failure to come up with a modern touchscreen OS and failure to entice app developers.

                • Janne

                  We’ll agree to disagree, then. :)

      • krishna6233

        I am not sure about MeeGo but Android could have easily worked ……..n anyday better than WP :/

      • nn

        In fact, RIM is faring a way better than Nokia. And not just in relative terms, but also in absolute – after all RIM is still around while Nokia is now gone. If someone tried to do to RIM what Elop did to Nokia, they would go extinct in the first year at most. I bet they would be dead even before they could deliver first WP phone.

        But BB10 was never proxy for MeeGo in the first place, RIM and Nokia were too much different business.

        • Janne

          Just to clarify, Nokia still remains an independent company. They only sold the phone division, which joins a long line of Nokia divestments, including rubber boots, toilet paper and tires. :)

          As for BB doing better, I think they could do better if they can make BB10 work (it can still work), but so far it isn’t looking all that good.

      • tom

        At least with Android, Nokia would not have to seel what was essentially Nokia, what made Nokia what it was.

  • sad day for us

    So… are you going to change the sites name to mymicrosoftblog.com now? :(

    • Janne

      I remember Jay’s lack of motivation after February 11th. Considering how hard it has been for him to find time for MNB lately, I fear how the MNB team is going to handle the news.

      You know, it is rally taxing on people to emotionally invest in something, in this case covering Nokia news, teaming up with Nokia people, analyzing/rooting/ranting over the products… and then have everything change from underneath them.

      Not only that, but have to do what around three times in five years, first the MeeGo news and crashing of Maemo hopes, then February 11th and now this.

      So, I wish well to the whole MNB team. It isn’t easy for a casual fan like me, but certainly it isn’t easy when even more effort has been put into the Nokia hobby.

      Big applause to Jay and the MNB team!

      • Ruben

        True!

        “Big applause to Jay and the MNB team!”

        they deserve it!

  • http://www.facebook.com/dexzter.05 drexter

    SCREW PHONES! IM GONNA BUY NOKIA TIRES!!!! AND I DONT EVEN OWN A CAR!
    ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAERJIWJTIO4UJ59UI4TJI4OJTO4JTI4JT IM BITCHIN!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :’(
    D:

    • Janne

      Nokian tires are no longer owned by Nokia, though.

      It would be like buying a Microsoft phone.

      Oh wait… Snap. ;)

      • Marc Aurel

        Yeah… Nokian Tires is not owned by Goodyear, Michelin, Pirelli, Bridgestone or Continental. It’s an independent company.

        • Janne

          Well that is true.

          And actually, I almost always buy Nokian tires. They are often good and buying them supports a Finnish business.

  • Himanshu

    Finally the end of Europe’s most innovative company which American cowboys wanted. Elop was clearly a trojan horse from Microsoft. The destruction began in 2011 and culminated today. Will miss the technology, awesome camera, fabulous design, unbreakable phones of India’s most trusted brand. It must be an emotional moment for the Finnish people in Finland. Its time to buy Samsung Galaxy phones henceforth. So please Nokia change your quotation of your facebook page. You are now destructible.
    RIP Nokia 1865-2013 :(

    • Janne

      While I find the trojan theory unlikely, I agree this is an emotional moment in Finland. It sure became a hot national topic immediately, one that pretty much everyone is discussing on some level.

      Just like for Swedes some time ago, as Ericsson faded, it sure will be hard to not have that “own” option in the mobile phone stores. Well, we’ll still have Jolla (all the best to those guys!). ;)

      • BellGo

        Honestly, I doubt that Jolla will succeed in any way that is comparable to Nokia. Oh well, I will never see a Nokia Android device, then.

  • Lumikola

    Nokia as we know it is dead. Period.

    The remaining Nokia will likely fade away slowly.

  • http://developer.nokia.com/Devices/ Srikanth

    I’m emotional now.
    I can’t imagine this shit.
    Oh man, I can’t believe this.

    So we have a last Nokia in our pockets?

    Do people at Nokia know what a big name they have in this world?

    Did wp really helped Nokia? or helped MS to acquire Nokia?

    Why other companies are still surviving with Android?

    Even if WP is in progress, why not wait some more time? Why this hurry and suddenness?

    I think Microsoft used/tested WP(Which is shit, so doesn’t work) using money of Nokia.
    Now it found that it is right time for it to buy Nokia.

    What elop said and what he did? Microsoft stole Nokia.

    I wonder why nobody at Nokia asked anything to people, no opinions, no polls, nothing.
    It’s all a Master plan that Microsoft did, so nobody raised any oppositions because Microsoft bought people at Nokia.

    • BellGo

      “Did wp really helped Nokia? or helped MS to acquire Nokia?”

      The answer to that should be rather obvious at this point.

      “Why other companies are still surviving with Android?”

      Because Android sells devices.

      “What elop said and what he did? Microsoft stole Nokia.”

      Everything Elop has done has benefited Microsoft at the cost of Nokia. It is very clear where his loyalty has always lied.

  • Ruefrak

    Is it just me, or is it interesting that this phone is not an “Asha” phone. It was just a Nokia phone. While Lumia and Asha have both been purchased by Microsoft, the Nokia 515 fits into neither one of those categories. So what is the play here?

  • watson

    Nokia ruled the mobile world for a decade, it is very sad to hear that nokia wont be making lumia phones anymore. I wonder why on earth did nokia not choose android operating system.?? why they never manufactured 7″, 10″ tablets when other chinese manufacterers come with new devices every week.?? what’s the logic behind this? I would really appreciate if anyone could justify my questions. . thank you..

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