Nokia “plans” to learn from HP’s WebOS failure
Nokia plans to “learn” lessons from HP’s spectacular mishaps with WebOS when it comes to trying to make their Windows Phone strategy a success.
Gary Chan, head of ecosystem and developer experience at Nokia Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei, said that the decision by HP to discontinue its WebOS based hardware business is proof of how quick the mobile industry is moving and that the its a war of ecosystem’s now.
Gary Chen also added that WebOS didn’t have enough a big enough of a market as well as provide the means for developers to make money on their apps, he then reiterated that Nokia are actively learning from HP’s mistakes when it comes to Nokia’s Windows Phone efforts. Nokia are particularly focussing on having well executed phones ready. (Yep how many times have we said don’t launch if they are not ready)
Vlasta Berka, general manager for Nokia Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei also added that WebOS’ immediate exit from the mobile world will not, as many suggest strengthen the case for the Microsoft-Nokia alliance because at the end of the day its not whether there is one, two or 20 platforms in the market.
From a consumer point of view, a greater number of ecosystems would mean more choice, which is always a good thing, he pointed out to ZDNet Asia.
To be fair you have got to be really stupid or just plain ignorant to fail with WebOS. Its a beautiful OS and could have easily battled with iOS and Android if HP actually bothered, so in my mind there isn’t much “learning” that Nokia have to to do here. In fact they should be learning and in fact should have already learned from 2007 from when the iPhone launched.
BTW special virtual high five goes to WpCentral on the awesome display picture.
Category: Nokia
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They got some nerve to talk like that after what they did to MeeGo and the N9.
Mario , you can’t really mix the two , unlike WebOS the N9 supports Qt which means its a part of the Eco System and it hasn’t been dumped or hit that hard, (the Sympian ecosystem that is)
This was very far sighted from Nokia , we hope they keep on that track and convince the idiots at microsoft to sport some Qt libraries (though i doubt it)
Microsoft are not idiots. And they hate competing open technologies (Qt, OpenGL and etc.). Nokia betrayed Meego progress making a deal with MS. The point is that MS ecosystem on mobile is not much better than HP’s. Windows Phone is virtually non existent. And Nokia could make the same leap with Meego. But Microsoft offered money for Nokia not to do it.
I’m really confused about MS’ WP7 phones. On the one hand, people I know who have them like them but on the other hand I could probably sell dog turds with ribbons on in greater numbers.
Maybe I should buy one, but I don’t want to spend my hard-earned on crap.
I suggest you try one in the shops or maybe ebay. I mean once you have tried it and you still don’t like it then you can make valid conclusions on why its not for you, and granted its not for everyone.
Yep, maybe it would be a good idea. I haven’t found one in the shops which is not a dummy – which makes it tricky!
WP current sales number is not the same thing as/equal to an ecosystem. Ecosystem also includes e.g. apps, integrated search, music services, gaming platform, carrier relationships, hardware manufacturer relationships, mapping services etc.
And remember, part of the Nokia + MS deal was to _create and strenghten_ the ecosystem (i.e. Nokia is e.g bringing mapping experience/products, its own app and music store experience and relationship etc.). So just looking at what WP is right now may be a bit misleading.
ps. What Meego progress? There was and still is precious little of that as far as I can tell.
Very true, and I wait to see what the WP ecosystem will look like in 6 months. However, device sales up to now have not been impressive so I am a little skeptical!
To clarify – I think that without device sales, any ecosystem is doomed. You cannot sustain 3rd party developers and services on hype for long.
I agree.. Windows, Xbox Live, Bing, Hotmail, MSN, Messenger, Skype, Office etc.. Microsoft’s eco system huge.
Nokia probably stands to make more off of Ovi Maps being included in other microsoft services than they probably do as a phone manufacturer as a whole.
Nokia and Microsoft could be a perfect marriage in so many areas not even including mobile.
“Windows, Xbox Live, Bing, Hotmail, MSN, Messenger, Skype, Office etc.. Microsoft’s eco system huge.”
All those services, except maybe Skype, are meaningless to mobile phone use. People mostly use Google and their services. Office is totally unnecessary to most people. Especially in a mobile phone where the platforms size prevents any meaningful work with Office. Most people don’t have Xbox and thus Xbox Live.
Microsoft’s ecosystem is just meaningless. It won’t attract people into buying WP7 phones. The only attraction that MS will have in future comes from Nokia, namely Nokia Maps. Nokia´on the other hand gains nothing meaningful from Microsoft.
Most people don’t have Xbox??
Sure .. to be fair … more people don’t have one than do.
But … check out vgchartz.com
Worldwide sales:
PS3 – 52.8 million
Wii – 87.8 million
Xbox360 – 55.7 million
Its still a popular platform.
33 million of those xbox sales are in the USA, where Nokia needs the most help.
I agree screen size restricts Office, but … the name still carries some weight.
Again .. Bing … maybe you don’t use it, but it has decent (and growing) market share.
Microsoft has a stronger ecosystem than any other player IMHO and Nokia just adds to this. I agree the Apple App store and iTunes is HUGE and where most people focus, but I think that Microsoft brings a lot to this deal.
Agreed. Microsoft is miserably trying to gain traction in the mobile field. So all this talk about Microsoft helping Nokia is bogus. It’s Nokia being used to help Microsoft.
You are forgetting that the Ecosystem is extending 3 screens. WP phone apps, for example, are possibly going to work not only on your phone but also the Windows 8 tablets and PCs.
I.e. you are focusing too much on the phone device. Expand your horizon a little.
That is nice that you think that, but it doesn’t make it true
Microsoft has an enormous eco system that applies to vast amounts of users regardless of their platform. Heck just simple apps of Bing and OneNote both launched in the top 5 of iphone apps and maintain top 50 positions in their categories months later. Bing is also the number 2 search engine world wide and growing. And Microsoft is the number 2 advertising platform.
Xbox Live is the number 1 subscription based gaming service in the world. If you don’t think mobile gaming is big then you are living in a hole.
Hotmail has more active users worldwide than gmail. Messenger is the biggest worldwide chat client there is. Skype is the number 1 video conferencing software. MSN is the number 1 news/entertainment site.
Heck Microsoft makes as much money in Office revenue than Google or Nokia make from their entire portfolio
Let’s look at the existing eco system for Nokia to compare.
Chat prescence? Video Conferencing? Search? Advertising? Web presence? Gaming services?
well but microsoft is losing money with its services.
And btw. I do not want to use a xbox instead of ps3 because of the phone.
You do realize Microsoft has the most ridiculous profit stream of any company out there. Microsoft doesn’t lose money, it is called investments in an ECO SYSTEM!!! It is all about the bottom line and Microsoft’s is insanely high.
@Jesse…+1. Very nice summary! And Microsoft’s enterprise presence is also a force to be reckoned with
Very true, no one comes close in the enterprise which is a huge portion of the tech industry. Exchange integration is considered by many as the most important feature on a smartphone.
I find myself agreeing with you – there isn’t anything in the MS stable of services which I would choose to use on a mobile.
If it’s all in there and integrated, then maybe I’ll use it, but none of those services (or more properly) the bundle of services is not sufficiently good to encourage selection of a WP phone over anything else.
I also agree about Nokia Maps – being in the situation of trying to find a decent phone right now, there doesn’t seem to be a lot which fit me. Nokia always would have done the job but nowhere sells them anymore.
Microsoft ecosystem is huge. It has nothing to do with the mobile industry though. So it’s irrelevant in this regards. I can same the same thing that Linux ecosystem is huge.
Linux doesn’t have an eco system so no you can’t say that. But thank you for playing.
Um it would’ve been rocketing along by now, if the announcement hadn’t come in Feb.
The gradual transition from harmattan to vanilla would be looking far stronger.
And the other 1 -> 2 harmattan+ handsets, we would’ve heard about by now
Then after the full transition in july+ 2012, we would’ve heard about a whole raft of meego based phones coming.
I’m all for WP, but will never accept that ditching Meego was necessary, the supposed facts just dont add up.
Symbain coldve continued to be phased out (perhaps alitt more quickly than it is now).
MeeGo couldve occupied the hjighe-end & mid along with WP, S40 the base..
shmerl, the former Tunisian regime agrees with you.
@ shmerl, Former Tunisian regime likes this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×4985187
Just like you Nabkawe, I hope that Nokia keeps working with QT, maybe on S40 now and something else in future.
Still I do see similarities here. I’m asking the question “What was the mistake to learn from?”.
If you think there is something else please tell what it is. To me it looks like the mistake is giving up too easily on an OS that might grow up to be a great one. HP with WebOS and Nokia did the exactly same with Maemo/MeeGo and (to an extent) Symbian. Shouldn’t they have learned it already from their own past?
Notice that I said _giving_ _up_ on an _OS_. HP also essentially killed the platform and ecosystem since there doesn’t seem to be anyone other using it. In Nokia’s case QT was hurt, but it didn’t die, far from it, so there is still hope for QT. Even within Nokia. Their decision didn’t kill MeeGo either since it is truly open and has several bigger and smaller organizations behind it, e.g. Linux Foundation, Intel, AMD, Linpus, Ixonos, ICS, …
Symbian will probably be gone once Nokia stops using it.
If this was the mistake to learn from, is the lesson not to dump their OS of choice,at the moment WP, again?
Nokia’s definition of ‘ready’ is unlikely to match yours, Jay…
uh, John. Sorry man
haha , we should get used to Jay not being around that often , after all he’s a medical student for god’s sake..
Especially with the student bit at the end! Sorry John, I will pay more attention in future
Haha thats OK I am only helping out Jay
Ask him to increase the size of the byline
You deserve it!
Oh no i am free to post stories when I want, but of course it all comes down to time. Will try harder, I used to post a bit more before time got a little restrained.
AWESOME
baby photo lol!!!
hm,. Doesnt that kid in pic look similar to elop :p
If they’re still only planning to learn, then Nokia is worse off than even I had imagined, and I think they’re doomed. Nokia should have been learning lessons for the past 3-4 years. WebOS’s failure is totally irrelevant at this point – the platform was hopeless long before HP bought it and dead the day they signed the check.
Besides, even if Nokia was capable of learning, it’s not like they can really impact Windows Phone in any substantial way.
Nokia is along for the Microsoft ride now. Nokia didn’t want to learn because they figured they were the teacher and they got schooled. Now they’re just coasting along on rails and hoping that someone will do all the legwork for them – just another lazy student sitting at the back of the class. Where the rails happen to go is undecided but wherever they do end up going is where Nokia will go as well, regardless of anything they may happen to learn along the way.
Agreed – WebOS died when Palm failed to make it fly.
It could be a great OS, but was missing the HW to make it good. According to Jean-Louis Gassee, you need a desirable killer device first and the ecosystem will follow. If WebOS had managed that the first time around and not stuck with the crazy small device schtick, they may have had a chance.
Firesales on TouchPads and Pres are just a distraction, I would have bought a TouchPad for $99 if I could have found one but I wouldn’t have cared about WebOS at all – there will be a working android port along soon enough.
You School analogy is very interesting, I think Nokia are definitely relaying on Microsoft a lot more than people think to help and get this alliance off the ground. Although I think Microsoft are also relaying on Nokia to get Wp7 into markets they are not in at the moment, so it goes both ways.
Nokia and M$ are like two clueless idiots copying from each other in an exam, thinking they will get a better grade.
Funny as to me there seems to have been a lot more decisiveness and clear direction in Nokia in the last 10 months than I have seen in a long time. Whether you agree with the decisions and direction is a different matter.
Making big, risky gambles doesn’t equate to decisiveness and clear direction.
Nokia’s handling of Symbian alone is all the evidence one needs to contradict your assertion. I’m not even talking about the poor handling of the product and the decisions that led to its downfall. I’m simply speaking of February, when Nokia clearly and decisively killed Symbian, alienated hundreds of millions of customers and thousands of employees and then scrambled feebly to backtrack after the earth caved in around them.
The did substantially the same thing with MeeGo. Release it to substantial buzz, imply that it won’t be available for sale in many major markets whilst further implying that consumers should be looking forward to WP7 instead. Then say they’re still picking where to launch and aren’t saying anything. Then finally release to major markets. During the course of this indecision, they’ve probably damaged any middling hope the OS had to begin with.
Fact is, Nokia’s big gamble on WP7 is as much a result of numerous, massive missteps and errors of commission as it was clear decision making. Indecision and a lack of direction, plus horrendous communication, closed off all of Nokia’s other doors for it leaving it with only the one. Now they’re stuck in a corner making a big, bold gamble. You don’t end up in this position when you have clear direction.
+1
I totally agree and I dont understand anything what Viipottaja is talking about. I think now is Viipottaja’s turn to actually argue about something not just irritating people with some meaningless phrases.
After what Nokia did to the N9, I’d say it’s HP that has learned something. And it’s the wrong lesson (“Developing an ecosystem is too hard, I’d rather just buy another one even if I lose control of my own destiny and see my margins eaten, I’m an impotent and a failure as a company, why was I born”, etc.)
the webos failed due to the sucky hardware in the Palm/Hp phones. They didn’t even care of course it failed on them. as for the touchpad. really? expensive at first, no advertising, no interest from HP->basically nonexistant. nokia is talking BS right now. also as for now the Samsung Bada handles WP7 sales with ease. And look at number of the phones that got WP7 and at those that got Bada. Nothing will change atleast not in the US. Meego was a good chance for nokia, seeing how they abandoned it makes me sick. It doesn’t matter they are almost dead.
“Meego was a good chance for nokia, seeing how they abandoned it makes me sick.”
+1000
+10 from me..
TIL John is a redditor
someone at gsmarena was pointing out that in probably Germany(dont remember the country clearly) , the WP7s are just lying in the shops and their prices have been reduced to half, still no one wants them
singapore?
I hope you’re wrong and Nokia hadn’t abandoned Meego or the N9 entirely. I crave the N9 and it ‘s OS to pull me back away from Android, this SGS2 that I currently use, and Google entirely! I mean I appreciate synergy between service but Google’s way about it just makes me uncomfortable. Com’on Meego! Com’on Nokia!
I understand what you are saying very well, but unfortunately, you are part of a minority.
I wish Nokia would hurry up and get a WP7 phone out
One big difference. WebOS rocks. WP7 sucks. They obvs’ haven’t learnt alot.
nokia cant win in this battle with apple
thier partnership with microsoft can only please the windows phone boys who want nokia hardware!
Steve Ballmer wanted a N9 but didn’t want people to note that he wasn’t using a WP phone, So he made the deal with Nokia and made Sea Ray. Once that is out and he gets one, the deal will be off and Nokia will be back to S40-Symbian-Meego (with Qt the development environment).
I don’t see how HP could have handled it’s WebOS any worse. They had launched the Veer and Touchpad a few weeks earlier and had just released the Pre 3 a few days before. They had lots of inventory and lots of partners who were not informed of their choice. They upset everyone – partners, suppliers, carriers, developers, customers. They still don’t have any clear direction and the “cloud” based Synergy and backup could disappear quickly. Customers have to expect the worst in terms of apps and bug fixes from now on.
Learn this! $99. Now get to work!
Ok, so please do learn and reinstate Meego and Symbian.
Hahahaha!! Lol at Jon Rubinstein for making fun of Nokia at Qualcomm’s Uplinq conference. Too bad, i wanted to try a WebOS device for so long, but i didn’t get the chance, in my country maybe less than 1% know of Palm
I just read this.. amazing how hard Google pushed to get andro out before Microsoft can put out their OS (wp7).. No wonder Android is such a hack job
http://www.pcworld.com/article/239654/google_offered_to_split_mobile_revenue_with_sun_papers_show.html