Video: Stephen Elop speaking at the Nokia World 2011 Developer Opportunity stream
Nokia Conversations just uploaded this video recorded during Nokia World Developer Stream. This was just near the entrance of the experience areas.
Elop notes that since the partnership was announced, the number of applications and developers has gone up in anticipation of what Nokia launched on 26th October (and zomg, it was already on sale Yesterday. So unlike Nokia).
That was corroborated recently in a report that showed Windows Phone has quickly risen past RIM behind the iOS and Android platforms in developer interest. That’s no small feat, given that the new devices still need to get traction, an from the report, the major reason for the confidence in the platform was because Nokia steppe in. It’s one of those more than the sum of parts thing.
I’d imagine that the developer interest will be helped further when the juggernaut Windows and its iteration in Windows 8 rears its head to tablets.
Elop says that what Nokia brings to developers is a deeper appreciation of what it means to be successful. You got to admit, their Nokia developer pages are really helpful to devs, whether they were working on Qt or now on Windows Phone platform. As well as that, you also need scale, which Nokia can bring in terms of volume and countries is stil unmatched.
BTW you might want to read this article in Reuters showing Nokia’s focus first on volume, later delivering that higher end device: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/16/us-nokia-ceo-idUSTRE7AF1O820111116
But it’s not just about Windows Phone as Elop points out, there’s the mobile phones effort (S40), he talks about the Qt platform that has served very well and notes that it will be serving the next billion too. aka Qt for S40 (with Swipe as Marko Ahtisaari hinted)
Category: Nokia, S40, Windows Phone
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http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/16/the-engadget-show-is-live-here-at-6-00pm-et/
He is also did an interview with Engadget.
Cyclops is a good talker – yet he never provides any specific details he says alot but then never provides a lot of detail. He is great at selling to businesses he’s very slick but he doesnt inspire or speak to consumers – no surprise as he headed up MS business software unit. His arguments
1) Ecosystem Ecosystem Ecosystem
2) Samsung et al selling WP phones is good for Nokia.
3) Samsung et al are not the competitor its Android and Ios.
4) Different phones for different markets.
5) MS and Nokia are tied at the hip
6) Eschew profits for Volume.
1)Who benefits from a large WP ecosystem the most? MS – they sell their licences, take the cut of the app revenue and charge for services which they will bring online. What’s Nokia benefit? This is never explained.
2)The implicit assumption here and it’s a big one the more WP Sasmung phones sell the bigger the WP ecosystem is and subsequently the bigger the opportunity is for Nokia. However Samsung also sells Android devices for them its all about selling more devices and not backing any one ecosystem rather than put all your resources into one basket.
3)This is both right and wrong. Ios and Android are the competitors but so is Samsung every WP phone Samsung sells is a loss of a Nokia sale. In fact any Android / Ios sales is also a loss for a Nokia sale.
4) Another major Nokia mistake in tailoring phones and thus increasing the SKU and complexity. Nokia should sell the same phone across the world and force operators not to make modifications. Modifications and changes and tailoring of the phone dilutes the user experience and increases costs of maintenance. Back to the same Nokia where there will be numerous Lumia 7xx 8xx 9xx etc all offering different options and it becomes confusing for the consumer.
5)Cyclops mentioned that Nokia and MS are working jointly – now what benefits are there to this? Say Nokia makes some changes to the o/s and hardware will MS mandate that is incorporated back into the o/s and chassis spec if so then Nokia competitors will free ride on all their work. If not then WP will fragment with different o/s combos on Nokia than rival WP makers and this is something MS never did in the past and will not do now.
Nokia has receieved thus far no concessions from MS and likely never will. This so called tight relationship as Cylops eluded to was they have forward insight into where the o/s is going but don’t make any mistake they will not be directing where the o/s will be heading as that is under tight control at MS.
6) All this does is puts it into the minds of the consumer that Nokia is a “cheap” brand. Lowering the price to attract more consumers is based on the false assumption than consumers are all price sensitive if they were Apple would not be shifting circa 18m each quarter. So lets say Nokia ships 10m WP handsets and doesn’t make much profits on them – who benefits – MS and the ecosystem. The hope that in time these people will then upgrade to more expensive WP handsets is not a strong strategy to base all your company on.
Dude Elop was always about using(live on) and destroying every Nokia technology for WP7′s success.
I am not against WP – I own a WP phone – its a good o/s but I am dead set against the strategy Elop has chosen for Nokia.
Elop is in a no lose situation – if the strategy fails he will be welcomed with warm arms back into MS. Personally I think he is auditioning for the big job at MS whilst working at Nokia.
His most criminal act was that he gutted Symbian and Meego immediately. If they still existed then Nokia employees would have an argument to say wait on lets also develop our own ecosystem. Now they have one option -WP or dead. Yes it does focus resources but focusing on the wrong resource is catastrophic.
Nokia could have easily supported S40, Symbian, Meego and WP by slowly phasiing out Symbian and S40 whilst developing Meego and their own ecosystem and services. They could then have 2 ecosystems one their own and the other WP with services that cut across both ecosystems.
All Cyclops has done is make Nokia into the Dell of the future.
“Personally I think he is auditioning for the big job at MS whilst working at Nokia.” YOU MEAN THE COMPANY HE LEFT EVEN BEFORE TAKING THE NOKIA POST?
Comprehension your weak point as is sarcasm. I know Elop worked at MS prior to coming to Nokia as I pointed above.
“Elop is in a no lose situation – if the strategy fails he will be welcomed with warm arms back into MS”
iF YOU HAVE A LITTLE INSIGH YOU WILL KNOW THAT GOING WP7 WAS A VERY GOOD OPTION…Through this partnership they get into a lot of areas they couldn’t.. MS just paid them 20million to advertise wp7 phone.. Right now people are buying devices based on ecosystem.. when someone buys an iPhone thent in line the person will buy will be the ipda , apple tv and macbook and it goes on. Microsft, Apple ,.. and to some extent Google are the only three companies which can give give this ecosystem.. if nokia was on its own they could make some gains, no doubt but looking at where the competition is going they would have been squeezed out. .. Dont forget they have a unique partnership with MS.. something which neither HTC or Samsung has.. If they play their cards they can take advantage of that and use their design expertise to entr into certain areas .. tablets , ultrabook etc.. they already have the name.
I well undertsand that the killing of meego and Symbian could have been done in a better way but mind you the company was loosing money. Symbian had more than 3x the number working on it than on Windows.. there was no way they could have kept all thsoe people on.. also i think they could have continued with Meego and make a device for it every year. .. just for the future.
Why should not MS pay to advertise its own OS and ecosystem? I personally will not buy a phone based on a US ecosystem as the benefits do not materialize in other markeds than the US and the disadvantages are applied universally. Small markeds will get the ecosystem services late or never…
Multiple service and software providers is whats in the consumers interest. All lockin strategies are designed to benefit the telcos and the OS supplier.
Note: You make some good points and I don’t agree on all aspects of Nokia’s strategy or Elop’s execution of it (some pretty bad communication mistakes, for example). Nor do I have a WP phone (have the N900 and considering the N9 and/or a Nokia WP phone when the land in the US). Just wanted to try to add some nuance and possible Nokia reasoning behind some of these things.
1) a) Healthy, vibrant ecosystem = more carrier and consumer support = more Nokia unit sales b) Maps; Nokia/Navteq maps power all of MS from now on, regardless of whether its on a Nokia phone, other WP phones, WP8 tablets, desktops etc.; bear in mind the “ecosystem” is much broader than just apps and just phones; 3 screen ecosystem can also be a big hardware opportunity for Nokia – I would not be terribly surprised if Nokia was one of the first, if not the first, out of the WP8 tablets gate.
2) & 3) Well, Nokia still has Symbian, S40, Meltemi and other R&D projects so if WP fails, they do have some options. But yes, diversification has worked well for Samsung. Would it work well for Nokia? Perhaps. And I am sure the famous Plan B exists, but it’s not like they are going to go out talking about any such contingency plans.
3) I have not watched the video but at least in the Reuters article Elop said _in the early days/right now_ the main competitors are the other OSs. He did not say Samsung etc. are not competitors _at all_. And, what he says implies they will be the main competitors to focus on once (IF) WP takes off.
4) One of the things all market observers agree seems to be that not providing carrier specific models was a big reason for Nokia losing the US market in the first place. And markets and segments do differ so some variations are probably needed. And like it or not, operators are increasingly important in many markets, including in a lot of Europe. But agree that it has to be managed. Plus, “different phones for different markets” could also simply mean “710 and 800 for country A” and “only 710 for country B”.
5) I gather it’s too early to tell, really and we don’t really know what the concessions are or are not. Tango and Apollo are in the works as we speak, so let’s see if Nokia influence is any more visible in those. And sure, some things will be for all WPs. But Nokia _might_ add some touches of its own too (e.g. some gestures, home/lock screen mods etc.) that would not e.g. make it look __totally__different from other WP or make it difficult for developers. And of course Nokia will continue have some Nokia specific apps.
6) a) Again, he talked about _now_ not forever b) if volume is high enough the profit might be the same as if the price had been higher but volume lower, and it that’s the case, Nokia would have the added benefit of having gained visibility, mind share, consumer & developer base, carrier attention etc. c) it is important to keep in mind that it would be perfectly consistent with that strategy to launch a very high end phone and sell it for Eur 575 instead of Eur 600. Plus economic theory 101 would tell us that consumers are ALWAYS price sensitive. Some are just more so than others.
The Ecosystem strategy is not a disruptive strategy. Tell me how did Apple in 4 years take over 50% of the industry profits?
1) You may assume that the rising tide (ie increase in WP ecosystem) will raise all boats but there is no guarantee the rewards will go to Nokia exclusively. I have used Maps on WP it sucks – its slow. Is MS paying Nokia for the Maps? Will the Maps be branded as Nokia on all WP phones? If I have Nokia Maps on my non Nokia phone thats one less reason to buy the Nokia. As as already been shown hacking the XAP file wasn’t too difficult.
Lets look at this tablet argument – currently Apple tablet pricing is making it very difficult for competitors to undercut Apple. In the PC game Intel and MS were the big winners. In the tablet marjet Nokia will be squeezed by suppliers and MS for the o/s on margins. MS wants as many companies shipping their o/s its what let them take control of the PC Market – every maker made normal profits.
2)Meltemi is this a rumour as it seems some say Meltemi was the codename for WP7.
3)No disagreement.
4)The US market is different to Europe as most sales are on contract. The argument was that in the past Nokia was not willing to compromise however the carriers bent to Apple will and now all 4 sell the Iphone unmolested. Have you ever picked up a carrier molested phone in the US? It is god awful. In the US Samsung has a different name for the same phone on different networks – its confusing. The carriers one the one hand hate Apple for taking control of the customer but love them for being able to flog expensive contracts. What does WP and Nokia bring to the table? Modifications – none like Ios MS wont let the carriers make changes to the os (thank god) but will let them when to deliver updates- (bad). Android has better price points and more variety and has mindshare so again why exctly do they need WP? This comes back to my original point – MS and Nokia need a disruptive strategy.
5) 70% of Joint ventures fail because it is hard to get 2 companies with different cultures, objectives, ideologies to sing from the same hymn sheet. Sometimes they start out with good itnentions but a weak plan. It’s numerous but the bare facts are the majority fail. How much is Nokia going to make from Nokia specific apps?
6)Look at the switching costs for Android/Ios users who have spent alot of time and money investing in their respective ecosystems. WP does not provide a compelling enough argument to switch. Smartphones make up 30% of the total phone market. That still leaves 70% – this is a sector Nokia dominates – it ships more feature phones than anyone else. However the switching costs for these users is low they can essentially move to any ecosystem as they have not invested much in their featurephone. Now if Nokia is targeting this – then why the heck did it need WP when in fact it was best placed to capitalise. It could have cannibalised its own s40 sales and move people to its own ecosystem. All its doing now is moving people to MS ecosystem where its a component but not the main beneficiary.
Thanks, good thoughts there and again I partially agree. Disruptive strategy would be better, but very rarely do disruptive events happen and that’s fine, most successful businesses do fine without. Reality is usually grey.
Then again, WP8 might even be one such disruption, at least in the lower end of the richter scale! 
0) Apple disrupted because they had the PERFECT timing and product for that time AND EXECUTED absolutely perfectly in the years after 2007. Imagine Apple introducing iPhone (even the 4S) now? It would not be disruptive anymore. And I am afraid Nokia does not have a disruptive product at its hands. Yes, N9 has some elements but as gorgeous the industrial design and the swipe gestures are, not sure they alone (the rest of the UI is not THAT revolutional, IMHO) is enough to have made it really disruptive no matter what.
1) a) Agreed and never thought the rewards would go exclusive to Nokia. Nor do Nokia think sol – of course they realise that others and MS will benefit but they do think Nokia can benefit more than other vendors – based on the early reaction to Lumia 800 it seems they might be right at least for now. b) well Nokia Maps will get improvements and it looks like Nokia WP phones will have some exclusive Maps features; MS is for sure paying for Navteq maps on Bing, the native WP map app, on Windows, WP8 desktoprs, laptops, tablets etc. i.e. where it is used by MS. c) hacks are close to irrelevant from the mass market point of view.
2) Whatever it is called, it now appears that Nokia is indeed working on something Linux based for the lower end – I believe McDowell said as much in an interview.
3)
4) a) On contract sales are increasing important in Europe as well. b) again, Apple case is unique: they had the perfect disruptive, HUGELY appealing product at hand plus Jobs’ ubermench confidence. :p c) yes, I’ve had carrier models in the past and actually, it was not that bad for me – perhaps I am not a power user enough and perhaps it would bother me more now that the mobile internet is so much more important etc. But it does not seem to bother all the Android users (although not sure to what extent the carriers have raped Android phones). d) as for why carriers would want WP? Well, not sure but I guess there could be a number of reasons (which may not add up to enough but might be there), e.g. (i) more control over ad revenue than with Google (ii) wanting to differentiate from other carriers (iii) diversifying, and in this taking into account the fortcoming WP8 onslaught (iv) offering something (effectively) new and different – even the iPhone is getting a little bleh and Android looks so yesterday :p (v) price points (vi) subsidies from Nokia and MS
5) a) yes, joint ventures are hard to pull off.. just look at Meego! The Nokia-MS one does seem to have some nice complementarities though. b) other than Navteq maps, probably not much – its more about differentiating Nokia WP phones (to the extent the apps are exclusive to them) or brand recognition.
6) All this may be true but based on the BIG assumption that Nokia’s own OSs and ecosystem would really have been viable now, in the medium term, in the long term (where is the gaming platform, tablet platform, 3 screen wide reach, cloud services, reliable native office apps; can Symbian really evolve fast enough – track record sucks; can Symbian really be moved to new HW platforms flexibly enough; Meego died – could Nokia alone keep it alive; would carriers want to keep supporting Nokia exclusive OSs platforms; how to differentiate from Android – Symbian Belle for some at least looks like an attempt to try to catch up witht the Android UI which itself is a bit yesterday etc. etc.). Nokia WILL be able to convert somey of its current Symbian users and S40 users to WP – I have absolutely no doubt about it. Most? We’ll see, perhaps not but there also plenty of non-smartphone AND non-Nokia users out there.
And finally, thanks for keeping the discussion civil!
I think what is important is to know your motivation behind your comments. I have no financial interest in any ecosystem or company involved in any of the ecosystems. I am posting about Nokia because it will go down as one of the biggest falls from grace – the loss in shareholder value is horrific.
It’s problems were of its own creation where senior management were too engrossed in creating their own fiefdoms and then when pushed into action they thought that having departments fight for resources would create an environment where the best products would rise to the top. How pathetically wrong they were. I am of a firm belief that consultants, business schools and MBA are conditioned to think one way and in the end implement what is the flavour of the day. I have come across too many carbon copy braindead MBA to dissuade me of this opinion. Nokia in the end tripped and stumbled to the point they were looking at anything, any solution and Elop sold them a beautiful narrative.
If I was asked which ecosystem to pick from Android and WP I would have picked WP. This does not absolve Elop of his crimes as I pointed above in gutting what was good at Nokia. I do not know the details of the deal that was cut but to me it has not currently played out where Nokia has the upper hand. MS needed Nokia more than Nokia needed MS but it seems the deal so far feels like the other way round.
In case you were implying I have some financial interest in MS or Nokia. Nope. Nada. Don’t have any stock in either (although might be a good time to buy :p ) nor any other affiliation. Just curious to see how it goes.
Looking at WP strategy my concerns are as follows.
1)MS pushes updates to the carriers and to the manufacturers. They then test and OK the update. The carriers or manufacturers can delay the process. Apple greatest achievement was bypassing the carriers. MS needs to bypass the carriers for updates – they simply slow the process down. Will Nokia updates be pushed out faster than other makers?
2) What services will MS deliver and which services will Nokia develop and deliver? MS delivers Bing Search, Zune, App Market, Hotmail, Skydrive, Maps, Messenger, Photo upload and soon Skype. Nokia delivers Ovi store, Maps, email, photo upload, Music.
Overlaps – music, email, maps, photo upload, app market.
1) having 2 music services can be confusing but Nokia will eventually close its music store and just provide a streaming service. MS will push Zune hard.
2) Losing Nokia email service is no real loss to Nokia. Hotmail is more widely used.
3) Nokia Navigation and their online Maps service is far far superior to MS Navigation and Maps service. MS should let Nokia lead on this.
4) Photo upload – MS to take control of this.
5)MS will not cede any control to Nokia of their App market. Nokia App market will only live on the dying Symbian and possibly S40.
Nokia online services which it put a great deal of effort into will also be dismantled.
ur the only person on this blog who understands whats going on.
I’ve ttried to Elaine multiple times that its about profit and in the long run Nokia cannot profit from this partnership. Superficial changes to the os will not be enough differentiation and they will have to cut prices eventually to compete.
Why can’t people understand that most of the benefit to this partnership will be accrued by Microsoft.
I guess this is a tech blog not a business blog. People just don’t get economics
I think you hit the nail on its head. This is a tech enthusiast blog. This in now way diminishes what is written.
But it fails to see that a good business strategy supersedes good technology. I maintain Apple is the greatest “non tech” tech company. This is more in reflection where Apple does not lead on tech invariably it follows yet has carved out more profits than the rest if the smartphone industry combined. Waxing lyrical about new tech is entertaining but in itself its not enough.
Just to note that most of Nokia’s online services (cloud storage, photo sharing, N-Gage, most of Comes with Music) were already dismantled, and much of it pre-Elop as well. Trying to do all of that on its own was in hinsight a mistake anyway, or at the very least poorly executed.
It was just poorly executed. Nokia bought in technology from different acquisitions that would never mesh together well. Each service by itself was probably fine but there was no way it was going to make a cohesive cloud service out of the parts.
The strategy itself was sound but the execution was awful. They overpaid badly for Navteq and with so many phone models managing them all became a mess.
Delivering Cloud services takes a different culture and mentality than building hardware so buying the tech pieces in was not in itself the wrong strategy but the pieces they bought and the prices they paid as well as the lack of leadership was.
why the fuck he keeps repeating the same thing again and again on every stage…fuck WP should fail
Err.. because that’s their strategy. You expect him to change stategy for each event?
And you might have noticed no CEO gives a lot of details on the future and un-unnounced products.
+1000
Elop sucks. If they didn’t waste time for WP then MeeGo now would be going to be best selling OS ever. Go to hell, Elop. You are guility for killing MeeGo for your own business. I will never touch any Windows Phone device, any more. It’s the most irritating interface of all mobile systems.
+1
Do you like ecosystems?
Some of you guys should just move on to android or ios, you just keep whining, complaining and going on and on about something that has already happened. Nokia went the windows route. You aren’t going to prevent it with your complaints at this point.
Either be open to the idea or find another manufacturer to support, it’s really that simple.
I’m no windows fanboy, i really want a meego device, and when the price goes low enough, i’ll get an n9.
But at the same time i sure as hell hope windows does well, because if it doesn’t nokia hardware will disappear and we’ll be stuck using crappy ass phones with bad reception that people can’t hear us properly.
With no opinions it would be pretty quiet. The forest is a good place to experience it…