Part 1: Transcript Nokia AGM: Stephen Elop on Skype (Updated with Video)

| May 7, 2012 | 218 Replies

 

 

I got contacted by John, communications director with Nokia in Espoo. John had a video of Stephen Elop’s actual comments about Skype.

There was some confusion that day from another source that ended up with a different conclusion from the meeting. Our reader Janne tried to clear it up in a post below.

http://mynokiablog.com/2012/05/04/mnb-reader-generated-fact-checking-what-was-said-at-nokia-agm/

The only thing that could possibly really clear it up would be perhaps other attendees confirming what happened or possibly the video of the AGM meeting. This is the transcript (Verbatim) of the video that is currently rendering. Looking at Janne’s write up and the transcript, this seems more in line, no?

 

 

Update: Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpgYc2MRE_Q

Stephen Elop: So, thank you for your question about Skype. Indeed, Microsoft did buy the Skype company as part of the ecosystem that comes with Windows Phone and Windows and so forth, so that’s quite correct. The feedback from operators is they don’t like Skype, of course, because for those operators who have a traditional wire-line business, traditional telephone business, it could take away from revenues.

And, so what MSFT has done – and we’ve been part of these conversations as well with operators – is as you correctly say, if operator doesn’t want Skype installed on a Windows Phone from Nokia or any other company, then the operator can make that decision.

Now, you’re right: it can be circumvented. But of course it’s on all Android devices, it’s on iPhone devices, it’s on iPad, it’s on all of those devices. So in fact what we’re doing with the operators is turning it around into an advantage. Instead of them just complaining about Skype on Android or Skype on iPhone, with Microsoft and Nokia, we can have a conversation that says “ok there, is this Skype thing, is there a different type of partnership we can do that recognizes that voice over IP like Skype is coming no matter what, but maybe we can do something creative that generates incremental revenue for you.” Some operators are looking at bundling Lumia, Skype and their own services with higher-bandwidth allotments to actually charge the consumer more and generate more revenue for them. So by actually controlling the Skype asset, we can begin a conversation about how we can have a better Skype-based relationship, which was impossible for operators to do before. So it’s actually quite a bit more advanced than whether operators like or don’t like Skype; they actually want to engage in a conversation about what does this mean and how could we do something that we couldn’t do before. Thank you.

Cheers John for the tip!

Category: Nokia

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Marcos a.

    I think now Nokia is victim of this Skype war. Depending on how Win8 (desktop, tablets e phone) will integrate Skype as a native function of this platform, carriers will counter-attack hitting directly into its owner (MS) by trying to kill WP, because WP is vital to MS. They need so much to succeed in this area, so that in other hand they will have serious problems in the near future. The paradigm has changed, so Smartphones are a vital point in their strategy to keep their profit. I have no doubt that if Skype become a manace to the success of WP they will kill it. Right now, carriers are bargaining with MS. Their dream is to put MS in a condition to choose between the complete fail of WP or absolute death of Skype in all platforms. Maybe force Skype to become a 100% (expensive) paid service.

    • Anonymous

      One thing scares me as Nokia’s shareholder, and that thing is Stephen Elop, and the Nokia’s board that has seemingly given Elop the right to do whatever. Elop hasn’t said a single bad thing about Microsoft, but yet he doesn’t hesitate saying bad things about Nokia in public. His Skype comments sound like he is actually defending Microsoft, and he has done this times. And when someone argues about the MS strategic partnership he automatically enters to denial mode, and stops the discussion about it. He uses lot of his time to talk about the 3rd ecosystem, that is Microsoft’s ecosystem, not Nokia’s! He has practically shut down Nokia’s ecosystem (Ovi, Symbian, Meego). He talks about differentiation, but he cannot really answer, how Nokia does differentiate from e.g. Samsung Focus 2. All Windows Phone’s are pretty much the same (they support the stuff that MS supports, and that’s about it, and WP has worst HW support compared to competition). With hardware, Nokia cannot differentiate. With services it could, but why not then go to services business, and offer e.g. navigation to all the other platforms as well?

      Elop’s decisions that has significally benefitted ONLY Microsoft, and NOT Nokia:

      - Killing Nokia’s competing platforms (Meego / Symbian, and now Feature Phones)
      - Killing Nokis’s marketplace (Ovi, and supporting heavily Microsoft Marketplace)
      - Outsoursing of Patents to Mosaid Technologies (what a great arrangement for Microsoft)

      I have never seen a CEO with such a bad track record as Elop’s. He is absolutely a disaster from shareholder’s point of view, and he surely deserves to be nominated for the worst CEO of the year award. Nokia’s share was about as high as 8,5 € before Elop announced his burning platforms memo, and now it’s about 2,5 €. In just a year Elop has dropped Nokia’s shareholder value to below 1/3 of the value it was when Elop started. And he doesn’t seem to worry a bit about it.

      And yes, I think this Microsoft’s Skype deal has hurt Nokia even more.

      Yes we could try to focus on positive side of the things, but there is little positive now. We have tried to yell to Nokia, but nothing has really changed. So right now, most of us don’t believe in Nokia anymore, and the only thing that could possibly change that, is a change in Nokia’s management, and strategy.

      • Dave

        “Nokia’s share was about as high as 8,5 € before Elop announced his burning platforms memo, and now it’s about 2,5 €”

        It also was 30 euros 3 years before Elop.

        Read also http://m.yle.fi/w/uutiset/yle24/ns-yduu-2-6083834

        • Anonymous

          Yes, I know that Nokia has made a lot of mistakes in a past. But let’s focus on mistakes that it is currently making. Yes, we should learn about past mistakes before Elop too. The most important thing is still to stop screwing things. Microsoft is right now giving Nokia its Kiss of Death (the same thing has happened many times before). Why hanging yourself on a platform that maked about 1% of the market? It’s like Dell/HP selling only Linux machines, and not considering to sell Windows machines.

        • snoflake

          True Dave (and none have been more critical of Nokia previous management or lack thereof than I, and the awfulness of S60) never the less as a shareholder I too feel far too much risk and cost has been borne by Nokia to ultimately benefit Microsoft not Nokia. Elop is CEO of Nokia and there to act in the interests of it’s investors ont Microsoft’s something he seems to have a problem remembering.

          I’d prefer it if he referred to the “Lumia Platform” more rather than Windows Phone or Microsoft. Ultimately MS is just a supplier I don’t hear him referring to Samsung screens or Qualcom chip etc etc.

          Yes the previous management destroyed the share price but Elop has now overseen it fall into scrap value zone and their debt be downgraded to junk status. In all probability it is game over and although the path may have been started on by OPK et al’s mismanagement and arrogance but Elop then surely piled a whole lot of fuel on the flames of the platform and has left Nokia perilously vulnerable and beholden to one OS platform with no other option unlike other OEM’s.

    • mikolas

      This kind of reasoning is beyond my comprehension. Firstly, Google bundles Google Talk and that has been no problem. Secondly, Skype is already available to any imaginable platform, thus completely undermining this argument. You really can not imagine Microsoft ending platform support?

      Operators have been mostly increasing their revenue on the data side recently, and I can not see any argument operators making less money even when people are using messaging services instead of traditional voice. Just change the pricing structure and the problem is solved.

      You can not survive by making your product worse, it is better to evolve since you can not stop the future.

  • Pingback: What Stephen Elop Really Said About Skype And Carrier Relations | WMPoweruser

  • Janne

    Sorry, my post above was badly mangled. Jay, feel free to remove it. Here is the corrected version:

    So, I see many people have asked or commented on my broader view of the Skype and Lumia situation above. Instead of trying to respond individually, I thought I’d try to write one comprehensive response. I hope this makes my stance clear to all those who give a shit about it. :) Others, feel free to ignore.

    Let me split this response into three parts: honesty, Skype and Lumia. First the particulars of this reporting indicent, second about the ramifications of Skype and the Skype comments and third my take on the success and state of the Lumia strategy.

    1) Honesty

    Now, I don’t know about you guys, but for me this is where it all begins. Whatever the case, we should try to deal with honesty here. I abhor people who say they only deal with facts, because that implies infallability, that they know for sure – when that by experience is very rarely (fully or at all) the case. It also makes it far harder to look at your own position with criticism, because you have already claimed factfulness. But honesty is different. Basically it means trying your best and admitting when you are unsure or made a mistake. I’m often unsure and I do make mistakes, but I also do me best to let you know when that happens.

    When I read the CDB article on Stephen Elop’s remarks at the Nokia AGM, it struck me as particularily erranous reporting. Indeed, the whole argument Stephen Elop made had been turned upside down and not only that, but major conclusions had been drawn from the incorrect quotes reported. Since then (at least an hour ago), the article still stands with its false claims, and with only token updates to vaguely reflect that maybe this is not all that was said. The claims were not redacted, they were merely at best explained.

    Now, honesty being important, I wanted to get the right version – as good as I knew it anyway – out there, and I think today my version has been vindicated by the transcription. So, no matter if what Stephen Elop made sense or was good or bad or even false, I think it was important to be honest and to try and get the best possible reproduction of what Elop said out to the blogosphere – instead of discussing false quotes. Please don’t mistake my attempts at honesty as agreeing with everything Elop said, has said or has done or does.

    No matter the personal opinions, biases and agendas, we should try to report and comment honestly. What the heck do we have left if we dismiss honesty? Some twisted game? And if this is a game, who wants to “win” by cheating? I don’t. That is why I felt compelled to act in this case since I was at the Nokia AGM and I knew what was really said and what not.

    2) Skype and the carriers

    This, then, is the beef once we now know what Stephen Elop really said. Isn’t it much better to discuss what he actually said, than what he didn’t say? Let me start of by saying that I am a big supporter of network neutrality. Indeed, I oppose any kind of carrier control of content and devices too. I was far happier about the Finnish model of business when operator’s could not subsidise phones and we only could buy them unlocked. I’d personally want to force carriers to adopt network neutrality by law. This is the world I’d prefer. Devices could be sold be retailers with standard part-payment plans if need be, separate from the operator contracts.

    But I’m a realist or a pragmatic by nature, not an idealist. I know that sometimes the price to pay for ideals is that we actually go further away from the world we are seeking, than get closer to it. For example, Nokia was constantly failing in the U.S., trying to use the Finnish model and sell unlocked devices. I’d like to see Nokia both succeed in the U.S. and also to advance my view of the world, where network neutrality reigns and operators have no power over devices and content. What to do? Which is more important? Which is more realistic? Yeah, latter is more important in the grand scheme of things, but also quite unrealistic. So the former, Nokia succeeding, becomes the next best thing for me, as a Nokia user, Nokia fan and a stockholder. I’d like to have both, but if I can’t have both I’d like it for Nokia to succeed.

    So, in order to succeed, Nokia needs to be friendly with the carriers and offer them solutions that work also in their favor. Here I’d rather see some compromise happen, so that my view of the ideal world is at least a bit closer. When it comes to Skype, this is clearly something that in my worldview is a good thing. I don’t want carriers blocking it or removing it or fighting it. But what if they will? AT&T boss was on air, on record lamenting iMessage and unlimited data just this weekend in the U.S. AT&T owners voted against network neutrality, if I remember correctly. The carriers do think about these things, I agree. They may even think about Microsoft and its Skype purchase, that is fine as speculation (as long as it is not claimed as fact), but overall I think they think all platforms in some capacity, and all services that are eating into their existing profit bases.

    What to do? I don’t want the carriers to start charging for Skype calls, nor do I want them to block Skype or stop selling Nokia phones. It remains to be seen, but if in this scenario Nokia could turn this problem into an advantage, where Skype could be supported on some reasonable model instead of ending up being blocked, then I think that might be advantageous to all concerned. Of course I also see this going terribly wrong and resulting in some really perverted money-making scheme, but I don’t think that is in any way given – nor do I think that is what Stephen Elop is suggesting in his Nokia AGM comments. I think it is wrong to try and only see the worst-case scenario in things, when usually it is not how things play out. Usually it is something in-between.

    So, I don’t think inherently what Stephen Elop said about Skype and carriers to be evil or anti-consumer, it might be better for the consumers than some Skype-blocking campaign from the carriers. But of course I admit every time network neutrality is threatened, there is reason for worry. I do worry about these things, make no mistake. If this results in something really bad, rest assured I’ll be honest about it.

    3) Lumia and graveness of Nokia’s situation

    Nokia is in dire straits. They are a potential acquisition target. Symbian transition was mismanaged and plummeted faster then expected. Lumia sales results are mixed, above expectations in some markets but sadly below expectations in others. Lumia is not yet ready for developing countries feature-wise. It is really hard to break in as the third option to carrier and retailer stores stuck in their ways of selling iOS and Android. Nokia’s feature phone business is badly challenged by cheap Android. And so on, and so on.

    So, what is there to see or not to see? I still see hope. Nokia’s cash position is strong to sustain them for a while. In Q4 Lumia probably sold less than 1 million. In Q1 it sold over two million. That is progress. The Lumia products are delightful and the user-experience is great in many ways that Symbian was not. If by Q4 Lumia is selling 10 million a quarter, I’d say Nokia is saved, even if it is not (yet) selling at Symbian levels. If by Q4 Lumia is still selling 2 million a quarter and feature phone business is still plummeting, then they are in big trouble. If internal indicators are Lumia is failing, then Nokia needs to change CEO and change strategy ASAP.

    Now, what can we as users do? I’d say those that feel like me, like the Lumia products and feel the current course has merit, to sit tight and concentrate on the positive. No reason to lament and be miserable every day, that would be stupid. There are new products, new features, new services, new apps, new marketing, many things to share and enjoy. We have a great site for that here too, thank you to Jay and the gang. As for those who don’t agree with the current course, I’d recommend change of scenery: There are plenty of great products from other companies or concentrate on those Symbian/MeeGo threads here and products from Nokia that strike your fancy. Why go over and over again things that are not about to change in your favor. Why wallow in misery. Keep calm and carry on.

    And then, for those who really feel compelled to act against the current strategy, I’m not asking you to stop. But I would personally prefer you take it to the appropriate venues, be they AGM, courts, directly at Nokia, press, whatever you think necessary – but please, let the user forums go back to enjoy being users. We are not responsible for Nokia’s current strategy or state. We are just trying to share the Nokia user and fan experience here, not be part of some blogoshpere vs. Nokia management world war three.

    • Peter

      Well spoken words there.

    • Mike

      Thanks Janne, for your honest reporting. You have confirmed my suspicion on these so called “journalists” and “reporters” as hateful propagandists that lend no real contribution to the discussion.

    • tej parker 3.0

      unnecessary flaming
      GET A LIFE, DUDE !
      what a pathetic being you are. in general concensus, your action above was quite worthless.
      p.s. before somebody wants to bash me, i just want all of them to know that i’m wise enough to forgive them

      • noki

        sad and you are sad.

      • Janne

        tej parker 3.0:

        “what a pathetic being you are. in general concensus, your action above was quite worthless.”

        Hey, this is just a hobby for most us users, everything we do here is quite worthless. :) The really important pursuits in life, they are not here. Nevertheless, this worthless hobby is great fun at best!

        • snoflake

          I’m afraid Janne their cash position is not at all secure and indeed they will require all of it just to finance day to day operations as with their current credit rating many borrowing avenues are closed to them. If they have the same sort of results/losses and cash burn in Q2 whether they will be able to keep operating becomes very subjective, without a large loan from MS or partial takeover. Which given their enfeebled state and rapidly diminishing options is frankly where they’re at already, if MS says jump now they have to.

  • noki

    “Lumia sales results are mixed, above expectations in some markets”
    ok be honest let me refrase “Lumia sales results are bad, above expectations in one only market, (and Finland is a very special market)”.
    The US remains to be seen but I don’t think it sold alot…
    Lumias in Q2 need to have sold over 5 Million or its bye bye Nokia.

    also
    and keeping it honest.
    “Q4…less than 1 million. In Q1 it sold over two million”
    but with more devices on twice the time frame on alot more places. so if you want to be “honest” you cant really say that can you?

    Wile I understand your frustration with all the nay Sayers me included in that group, Its hard for people with emotional ties to Nokia to see it sinking this fast and say nothing. We need to vent our discontent, and blast our “we told you so” even if we sound repetitive, but fact remains that we did “told you so” and many here accused us of being 2000 different things including being completely clueless and that elop knew better, the truth is that Elop was dead wrong in all its predictions, and placed Nokia in a fast track to its demise..

    On top of that I would really like to know exactly how the IP portfolio that was used in Nokia’s case against Apple ended up under Microsoft control???

    • Janne

      noki:

      ““Lumia sales results are mixed, above expectations in some markets”
      ok be honest let me refrase “Lumia sales results are bad, above expectations in one only market, (and Finland is a very special market)”.”

      I think what we must go by is that Finland and U.S. are exceeding Nokia’s expectations, UK is below expectations and rest are unknown. I think that is what we know about Nokia’s expectations. Now, taking it further from there, there is certainly reason to worry about Lumia’s performance in western Europe at large (due to strong iOS/Android competition) and in developing markets like India (due to lack of certain market-specific feature requirements). There is plenty of reason to worry. But as a user, what can we do – why not hope for the best. There is plenty of reason to be hopeful too. It is not all doom and gloom – even if all might fail. And sure, all might fail.

      “The US remains to be seen but I don’t think it sold alot…”

      I think the honest thing is to say Lumia has been exceeding expectations there, but we don’t know if that will continue.

      “Lumias in Q2 need to have sold over 5 Million or its bye bye Nokia.”

      Hardly. No way is Nokia bye bye that soon.

      ““Q4…less than 1 million. In Q1 it sold over two million”
      but with more devices on twice the time frame on alot more places. so if you want to be “honest” you cant really say that can you?”

      I definitely can honestly say that. I am not claiming it sold twice as much in specific markets, just saying that the overall sales are growing. As a Nokia fan I’ll take progress from any market, thank you very much. :)

      “Wile I understand your frustration with all the nay Sayers me included in that group, Its hard for people with emotional ties to Nokia to see it sinking this fast and say nothing.”

      I get that. But you’ve been saying it for over a year now, as a group. Let it go. It is not changing anything. Not here, anyway. You are just hurting innocent people.

      “We need to vent our discontent, and blast our “we told you so” even if we sound repetitive, but fact remains that we did “told you so” and many here accused us of being 2000 different things including being completely clueless and that elop knew better, the truth is that Elop was dead wrong in all its predictions, and placed Nokia in a fast track to its demise..”

      Partial yes – and I agreed with many of those I told you so’s. So what? It is okay to say I told you so once, twice, but a year later it is just too much. Let it go. Or take it to some venue where you can affect change – or why not to CDB where clearly the venom is shared and the comment system set up for venting malice and frustration. Here many would actually like to enjoy Nokia, Nokia products and services and so on. Why not let them? I’m just asking politely, not telling you what to do. Just my opinion.

      “On top of that I would really like to know exactly how the IP portfolio that was used in Nokia’s case against Apple ended up under Microsoft control???”

      I don’t really understand the question.

      • noki

        So the apparently company that got part of the patent profolio from nokia to do some profitable litigation, is now after some not well know twit of evens under Microsoft control, apparently the patents involved here ate the most valuable nokia patents over Wifi 3G 2G GSM technologies (real patents not software BS) the same that made nokia won its legal battle against apple.

        So Nokia is no longer under control of its most valuable patents that are part of the what is Nokia acets valued on about 5B US$.
        So as its stands Microsoft does not need to buy nokia and can leave it to die as its already in control of the one thing that nokia has of true value…

        How much did Nokia got from this???? ZERO…

        • Janne

          I have no knowledge of this to comment. What I’d guess, off the top of my hat, is a usual IP indemnification and licensing deal (and related right or obligation to defend the partner) as a part of the partnership agreement. At the Nokia AGM and indeed in their printed annual report Nokia mentions gained IP/patent licensing from Microsoft as a part of the deal which has value to Nokia, but I forget the details and lack the energy to research the issue at this time. :)

        • Dave

          Can we ask where you actually get these kinds of things from? I and I am guessing most posters here try to follow pretty much all of the related news, but you come up with these strange things all the time, never a source, and sometimes not even really making much sense, that doesn’t seem to come from anywhere. (Another example is the 5 or 8 million shipped thing, do we need another video transcript here?)

          • Janne

            Apparently this is being discussed at CDB. I am too tired to read it all, but you can find it at the end of the comments to the Nokia AGM story there.

            And I think that is a fine forum for a discussion like that, compared to MNB, since clearly the focus of that blog is to discuss and critique business issues and not user/fan issues.

      • Mario

        “Or take it to some venue where you can affect change”

        That’s exactly the issue. There is no such venue unless you are a major stockholder. In fact, didn’t someone already sued them for lying about what they could achieve with the Lumia line?

        And we know Nokia reads this blog. That is why you see so many people being so passionate here.

        Personally, what I see, or rather, what I don’t see, is any clear recognition of the mistakes made, which could lead to a vision of how to push things forward. Because it is obvious that just Lumia won’t save Nokia. Unless they want to become another Motorola and bleed users that upgrade from Nokia’s featurephones to another OEM smartphones…

        It is sad. My first smartphone was an E71 and I love Nokia and what they do dearly. But my next mobile is going to be the HTC One X… after I sell my N9.

        • Mario
          • Dave

            You realize Apple also has a few class action lawsuits going?

            It’s baseless. It’s not about lying, it’s not even about true or not, it’s about acting in good faith.

            “Because it is obvious that just Lumia won’t save Nokia”

            I love how everyone always knows things for a fact. It’s not “obvious”. You know what was obvious? Nokia going down the drain with the Symbian strategy. Unless the whole board of directors, with more information than us, has gone crazy, they are in a better position to judge, especially since they know what is in the pipeline in future products.

            “And we know Nokia reads this blog. That is why you see so many people being so passionate here.”

            Nice, so everyone who is not an M$-FLOP-OMG hater is an astroturfer. Ad hominem much?

            • http://europe.nokia.com/pureview steelicon

              And everyone who is anti MS / Elop / WP is a troll?

              • Dave

                May I ask how you go from “apples are red” to “if it’s not an apple it’s blue” ?

              • Janne

                I have no problem with people being anti- something, but I think there comes a time people people should just let others enjoy things and move on, if they themselves don’t want to take part. Clearly the current Nokia is no longer serving you well. I’m sorry to see and hear that, of course, but it has been over a year since Feb11. Really. Over a year.

                • deep space bar

                  people still bitch about 9/11so get over yourself it happened and we have reason to bitch about it till it’s PROPERLY FIXED and or exposed

                  • shallow ocean shoal

                    You are comparing telephones to people dying horrifically?

                  • Jay Montano

                    Strange. When news comes in from old Symbian folks explaining the situation with Symbian that would go on to explain WP, it’s ‘beating a dead horse’.

                    But just to whine and cry about the WP strategy in the first place, it’s OK because people still complain about 9/11?

                    How on earth did you even make that comparison? You know, where thousands of people tragically died and massive repercussions continue to cause deaths around the world?

              • Keith too

                @steelicon,

                When you and the like come into a positive article about Nokia’s WP/Lumia’s and deliberately try to tear it down and Nokia in the progress you are exactly the same as one who would go in to a good news story about the 808 and start trashing it and/or Symbian. I don’t think I have to spell it out–grow up and become more positive before you develop health problems at your young age.

            • So Vatar

              Dave, it is neither a fact that Nokia is going down with Lumia nor is it “obvious” that Nokia would have gone down with Symbian.

              Both positions are opinions at this time. While we will never know for sure how Nokia would have fared without abandoning Symbian (and to a larger extent Qt/Symbian/Maemo-MeeGo), we do know more how Nokia fares with the Lumia strategy. We do know Q4 and Q1 sales numbers, we can see losses made in their smart phone division, we see market share losses, etc.
              Some say it is too early to call WP strategy a flop. Some say everything will be better with WP8.

              However, the market does not agree with Nokia’s current trajectory. The market in its collective wisdom devalued Nokia by more than 75% (!!!) since the announcement of the new WP strategy in February 2011. There is no spin possible to turn this into a positive fact. It is just awful.

              Btw, if you are interested look up Kodak’s stock price over the last 5 years and compare to Nokia. Eerily similar. Kodak filed for bankruptcy earlier this year.

              • Janne

                I agree the last four, five years being horrific for Nokia – transition after transition and huge losses in stock price throughout that period. I agree both Symbian and Lumia trajectories being opinions, wishful thinking or at best educated guesses by people.

                So what to do, then? On a fan-based user forum? Wallow in misery and rain on everybody who tries to continue to enjoy the products or sees something to like in the new products? Or maybe take the Saab owners approach: Keep calm and carry on. Or heck the AA approach, accept what you can’t change (Nokia’s strategy) and what you can (your own behaviour).

                There is tech to be enjoyed here. Get over Feb11, it is long gone. And if people need to take their mission forward, do it at a more constructive venue. Please.

                • So Vatar

                  Oops, I am sorry if I hit a nerve.

                  But it is okay, apparently you are the judge. My fault that I thought that this is: “My Nokia Blog:
                  Random, informal Nokia blog for Nokia, Symbian, Maemo, MeeGo and Windows Phone news, reviews, rants, suggestions and applications”.
                  I was wrong as you state that this is actually “a fan based user forum”.

                  So sorry that I got that wrong. I guess it is better to let stand when someone writes “It was obvious that Nokia was going down the drain with Symbian strategy”. As if it were more than just an opinion.

                  I rest my case.

                  • Janne

                    I am not the judge and I keep repeating this: That is my view, that is my opinion. And I never advocate deleting comments for example. Sorry I forgot the disclaimer from that particular message.

                    But do think about it. Is my request really so silly? To accept what you can’t change (the Nokia strategy) and change the response. How long is the misery going to go on? as long as the current strategy exists? Well, it is going to be fun future in Nokia user forums then…

                • reonhato

                  what are you trying to say? those who disagree about 2-11 should just get over it, keep quiet and don’t post opinions in this blog anymore. if the symbian fans kept quiet, you probably wouldn’t get the demanded features on your wp and nokia will once again take its time to do things.

                  • Janne

                    reonhato: What I’m saying ALL of our disagreements and agreements over Feb11 have already been registered and reregistered many times over. Very few of us agreed with how it was done by Nokia – and today many of us disagree amongst ourselves with what was done and what is going to happen. This is fine, this ins known.

                    But it has been over a year and we are still going through the same thing. I think, and this is just my opinion and my request, it is time people get the peace to enjoy using Nokia products without the constant agonizing from others. I think the criticism has moved on from understandable and warranted to simply outstaying its welcome, the way it creeps into almost every possible discussion that we have here.

                    Think of it like this. In your group of friends something tragic happens to one of you friends. By tragic I mean perhaps a girlfriend dumped them, not tragic as in somebody died. So, for a while it is perfectly normal for that person to be sad and to ask and receive support because he lost his girlfriend. But what if still over a year later he is sabotaging every outing where there are couples by venting his anger towards, say, women. At some point it is polite to ask and to expect him to stop it. Sure, he might still be sad, but dumping it on others all the time just isn’t polite anymore.

                    I personally think that time has come in the Nokiasphere. Just my opinion. At the Nokia AGM the board highlighted the trust and support Elop and the Nokia management team enjoy. The strategy is not going to change any time soon. Maybe if it is failing later this year, things will be different, but for the moment Nokia is not very likely about the change their strategy. It is what it is. So, accept what you can not change (the Nokia strategy), and change what you can – your own beaviour. You can let it be. You can use this forum for a positive contribution. Just do it, guys. Let’s be merry. That does not mean you have to agree with Elop or that people think you are suddenly agreeing with Elop, it just means we are adult enough to put the topic aside and get along.

                    And for those who can’t be merry, and who must pursue this agenda and right this wrong, I’m really honestly sure there are better and more moral ways to advance that goal than to continue raining on everybody elses parade here on MNB. Take it to CDB, take it to courts, take it to AGM, take it to press, start a Facebook campaign, do something productive about it.

                    Just my opinion.

              • Dave

                “The market” also devalued Nokia from 30 euro down to 8 euro before Elop was installed, when the Qt everywhere transition was in full swing.

                • So Vatar

                  Dave, I am sorry, I am not supposed to reply to this anymore. Have a good day.

        • Janne

          Mario: My first smartphone was a Nokia 9210 Communicator from 2001. The first Symbian device from Nokia ever. Followed by Nokia 7650 in 2002, the first Series 60 Symbian ever.

          Both of these were preceded by various Nokia mobile phones over the previous decade. So please, don’t for a minute think I don’t care. I do care.

          But personally, when I come to a Nokia forum, I’d rather not be subjected to the same flamefest year or, year out. Feb11 was over a year ago. Get over it, people. Please.

          • Mario

            You are preaching to the converted here. I haven’t flamed anyone or plan to do so anytime soon.
            But I have pointed out what I think Nokia have done wrong (transition) and what I think they have done right (execution).

            My road with Nokia started with my work-loaned E61, E65, E61i, I became a believer and bought my own E71. After, N97, N8, E7, N9 and very briefly, Lumia 800. Also, N800 and N810 (my user, mrojas, should be still active in talk.maemo.org).

            All on my own dime and it was a fun ride.

            I was a firm defender of Nokia and the values they represent, which were reflected in the devices and software they made.

            So yeah, I’m with you on that. It pains me to see what Nokia is going through, and worse even, knowing that it is something that they did to themselves and could have been avoided.

            Regarding flames, honestly, I stopped reading comments a long while ago. The bad blood in them is not worth it.

    • Keith too

      It is obvious the Lumia’s are doing better in the US than anywhere but it is not a US only phenomenon. Windows Phones data usage stats are rising in just about every market it is in and in every European country. Also WP’s percentage continues to rise despite iOS/Android activating 1.25 million a day. And I repeat, WP’s data usage share is higher in Europe than it is in the US (though I do expect that to change within a month or two because it is really starting to rise in the US).

      Also I see more WPs around in Canada than before–even my local grocery store has 2 models of Lumias on display at a kiosk–I never saw that before.

      Finland aside for obvious reason, if you’re going to have the Lumias do well in one country there is no better country than the US. The number of units sold may be just moving ahead in China but how long do think it will before western companies are transferring more profit out of China than the US (hint: it will be a long time yet). The iPhone and Android started in the US and that is where Nokia is starting its big marketing push. It would be marketing stupidity to try and conqueror the entire global market at once–because just as with iOS and Android, the success in the US prepares the entire global market for more of the same–marketing 101.

      • Dave

        What’s funny about Finland is that if you read the comments at any Nokia article on taloussanomat, itviikko, hs, etc, they’re even more childish than here. If you see a comment with 450 “minus” votes and 3 “plus” votes, it probably says something like “I tried the Lumia and I liked it”, whereas if you see a post with 250 “plus” votes and 3 “minus” votes, it’ll be something like “FLOP $MS sell out microsoft shill symbian rulez v1agra”.

        I like it here but I wonder where all these retards hang out because it’s not the impression I get outside, maybe it’s their quiet anonymous side.

        In any case, Lumia’s sell very well here.

    • just-for-the-link

      “ended up under Microsoft control”
      not whole, but partly
      http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-weighs-in-on-mosaid-nokia-patent-deal/10523

  • deep space bar

    this is where microsoft fucks up….UNLOCKED PHONES FTW

    • http://europe.nokia.com/pureview steelicon

      LOL

    • Doffen

      Yes, this is one good reason for buy unlocked phones. In an ideal world the carriers should be dumb pipes nothing more.

  • http://www.psyzone.co.in Bhairav Pardiwala

    The argument made was really very good infact with windows phone 8 i guess they will do something about it as voip is a feture in wp8

  • Oreg

    Hah, at 17:34:22.
    When he saying “Microsoft” he points to himself.
    I’m sure it is just couse he was too long time a Microsoft employee :D

    • Dave

      “Microsoft and Nokia” :)

    • deep space bar

      exposed he never left…how does one fully change their site and outlook to one of another company and not their own ?

      boxes instead of squircles ?…wtf eh

  • Pingback: Nokia: Transcript of Stephen Elop on Skype | WP7 Connect

  • Pingback: [UPDATE] Nokia: ‘Providers weren Lumia door Skype’ | Tech-nieuws

  • torcida

    Bring Skype Video call on Symbian!!!!

    • X-Sonic
    • deep space bar

      how about we get developers to make a VC app for symbian and meego that ONLY connect via Nokia email or Nokia accounts ;)

      NOKchat..video calling application designed and maintained only for meego and Symbian

      • shallow ocean shoal

        How about a video calling app that works across Symbian AND MeeGo AND WinPhone AND iPhone AND Android AND PC AND Macintosh AND iPad AND Ubuntu AND EVERYTHING

        That will be a good day. Especially if it can translate with subtitles in real time.

  • Oliver

    I think Elop tried to evade the question about Skype. I don’t remember Nokia or Microsoft making their Lumia and WP7 for any land line device. Landline operators have no business rejecting these devices or services as they are not for that market.
    Mobile operators are the ones rejecting the Lumias because they also have had experiences with skype in their land line businesses or also because they have seen the effect on their contemporariries.

    Saying Iphones and Androids have Skype and using that as a defence, is both misleading and an attempt to distort facts.
    Skype on any other device apart from WP devices, is not tightly woven into the fabric of those devices. They are addons that users of those devices may choose to download or not or even never hear of. But with WP it is a feature that is more likely bundled alongside(correct me if wrong). This if true, will even further introduce more users to the service unlike if they went looking for software to download.
    If Microsoft becomes successful with Skype, I can see the telcos going the same way as the pc manufacturers selling desktop windows devices, as one can very well see your skype account becoming your primary number and an actual physical number becoming less relevant.
    For Microsoft, they are nowhere in mobile, Skype was the quickest way to entrench themselves in the mobile arena, suddenly they have a product that runs on almost all smart devices. Next will be how to get users to pay for the service, either by direct cash payments or indirectly by bundling with with WP.
    Elop finally admits the operators are not keen on WP because of Skype, he just tried to make it not look serious.

    Regarding CDB, I am a keen reader of that blog and I have not seen anything wrong in the way Tomi presents his info. When he presents an analysis he doesn’t call it a fact. And he has been talking about the operator apathy to WP / Lumia, for a while now. And he has been critical of Elops madness of which I agree with whole heartedly.
    Nokia is hiding figures, hoping they will improve by the time they release them.
    Excepting they have a sharing formula with the operators, they have to sell even more devices to be profitable because the present price in the US market is the same or even lower than some low end androids.
    Imagine a man at the launch of a product says no matter how successful it is, it will be the last. And goes all out to limit the possibility of the product becoming a success. Does it take a genius to decern someone with suicidal tendencies?

    • arts

      from what i understand wp skype is far less capable than android or iOS. intergration wise android and ios easily trumps wp.

      for instance, skype on wp cannot be used when the app is in the background, that is, calls will not go through if a person wants to conract a wp phone with the app in the background.

      the point is in a feature to feature comparision of the various skype apps will place the wp version last.

      thats why claiming that wp has skype more finely woven into the os is bkatanlt false.

      also, skype for wp is launched on feb this year, yet somehow lumia with its misniscule marketshare is causing the majority of the headaches for carriers? i do not think som

      • arts

        sorry if my tone sems a little harsh. typing on this damn android tab is horrible.

        you share your opinions politely and that is awrsome. :-)

        • DesR85

          “sorry if my tone sems a little harsh. typing on this damn android tab is horrible.”

          I don’t own a tab, but I did try typing on a friend’s iPad before and it’s not good either. Can’t beat the good old PC/Laptop keyboard if you ask me. ;)

          Might be a good idea to buy a bluetooth keyboard?

          • arts

            =( it sucks like hell. haha the onscreen keyboard lags and my friends ipad seems so much faster. But android really wins in customization thou. so many dfferent keyboards!

            haha

            actually i was planing to get one. =x do you know any good ones people recommend?

      • arts
  • hosny santos

    mdev, luisito, gordonH +11111,nokia is falling, WP , don´t sales, today nokia 12%, and now ??? keep going down????,or in emergency use new disrupture whit maemo harmattan and like sammy use 2 or 3 OS ,the end is nearly, and nokia must smart in smartphones or ………..,wp fanboys be nokians and open yours eyes, nokia cannot wait for this future success(maibe or not).

  • gabriel9

    Every post on this blog, and and nokia blog is a war…

    But here are some good news.
    1. One of my friends is gone buy N9. And he is iPhone user.
    2. One other of my friends bought Lumia, but when i showed him N9 he was really sad because he made a mistake.

    There is no point in argue about MS, they are bad. And i don’t tell this without proof. I see what are they doing in my country, bribing every politician who is in charge with IT sector. You can imagine how many shitty services we have with their Share Point…

  • Oliver

    @arts.
    You appear to miss the point.
    It is not the quality of the app that matters at the moment.
    What matters is the possibility that the app can be bundled with WP the same way Blackberry bundle their messenger.
    Microsoft killed Lotus and Borland, because they forced manufacturers to bundle OFFICE with windows. Netscape was forced to abandon a profit model for their Navigator because Internet Explorer was bundled with windows.
    It didn’t matter that the initial office or explorer were crap or still are.

    The same goes for Skype. If they bundle it with every phone, the number of users with skype on their phones will multiply with increasing sales unlike if it was a secondary download.
    It then becomes easier to teach your aged aunt to use it for free calls, unlike teaching her to search and download and other stuff.
    Once Microsoft has attained critical mass with any of their products, they will suck the life out of everything.
    Skype is at the core of their mobile strategy, you don’t have to like it or work well with it, for them to want to make money off it.

    • arts

      i understand that might be a concern. We are talking about the future. But at the present, what is the biggest threat? WP and its maybe skype integration? Note that even in the next big revision of wp, skype is still not integrated into the OS itself.

      Again, what is carriers biggest threat? people actually using the services now on Androids and iOS? or wp and its maybe skype?

      what you just describe, teaching old aunties how to use skype instead of calling, can be easily replicated across all devices. Android/iOS all have that feature. So again, why lumia alone is targeted?

      That question is fundamentally unanswered.

      interestingly what you said is even more worrysome for apple.

      Apple currently has face time, which is usable to nearly 30% of the smartphone users in the world. It relies excursively on wired/wifi internet, as it cannot be used with wireless connections such as 3G or LTE.

      This is basically what you are talking about right? a service bundled into every single phone, which can be easily taught to ever consumer. and Why is this not targeted?

      Either something is not right with tomi ahonens theory, or there is another way to explain this whole carrier thing, with fare less extrapolation needed.

      Unfortunately i wont comment on the “microsoft is bad” part of your story because honestly, for all those things you said, they got punished. and with regulations so strict in EU as it is, carriers could as easily do another anti-trust lawsuit against microsoft, and throwing a spanner into their plans.

      • Oliver

        @arts.
        Tomi Ahonnen is not the cause of Nokia’s problems. Neither is he responsible for the carrier apathy. He has only suggested why there is a carrier apathy.
        The real problem with Nokia is that man with a forked tongue insulting his employers and employees by calling all their years of effort, rubbish, and perhaps also, a board that is either on anti-depressants, or have been hijacked.

        Back when Nokia announced they were adopting WP, I immediately posted on the inquirere.net, that it was suicide.
        I am not an analyst, but it was evident it was a wrong move. Windows on phones have never worked. Consumers and the enlightened ones hate the idea of Microsof on their phones. Even Nokia a few years back had turned down windows and went the Epoch/Symbian route.
        I love windows on my desktop/laptop and I think that is where they should remain. Microsoft is an arrogant company in the way the design their software, and they apply such arrogance in their windows phone software.
        I’ve seen how they’ve wrecked phone manufactuers and sucked all the profit from PCs.

        Iphone imessage or Google talk or whatever, don’t matter much as they are limited. While they might still achieve what the carriers are trying to prevent Skype from achieving, Skype is well know and has a wider user base across platforms. Microsoft bought Skype to activdly push it and generate revenue from it.
        Nokia being the “largest” phone company, and being able to maintain their sales volume with WP, would soon have more Skype devices than all of imessage or any other ipcalling software.
        Unfortunately, Elop failed to understand that consumers are not that stupid. They thought the vast user base of Symbian, would just convert to WP, because they always by Nokia. Then attempt to bait them with the N9 while substituting a Lumia 900. unfortunately, the consumers felt insulted and rebelled, the operators rebelled.

        I am happy for anyone who loves WP and WP on Nokia. Its great to see their enthusiasm for something new. Well there are millions of Lumias out there, they should feel free to buy to their hearts content.

        • arts

          Honestly your beef is with elop and im cool with that. some people think it might not work, some people might. im on the fence as it is.

          i just diagree that carriers target nokia merely because of skype. and the way tomi ahonen is putting it outas elop admits is pretty much distorting or the very least, stretching what elop is saying to the extreme.

          anyway i doubt we are going to come to any significant conckusion but i thank you for a very pleasant conversation. :) agree to disagree i suppose.

  • Pingback: Simkl Blog » Blog Archive » Why Skype might help, not hurt, Windows Phone and Nokia with carriers

  • paul

    Nokia make a terrible mistake for not supporting symbian, which is by far a very stable and secure platform. Hope ELOP change strategy, or Nokia will be the lowest market share company and stockholders will lost all money.
    Symbian was the right choice