In addition to Apple, Nokia and Microsoft are the main beneficiaries of Samsung’s stumble to Apple says Analyst
Nokia’s share prices. Not something we post about here for various reasons (we’re not investors or capable of /want to give trading advice) as it’s not entirely indicative of the company’s performance – more it portrays the confidence (or in other instances, lack of) in what Nokia is doing.
For those interested in that, here’s an interesting article:
http://stocks.about.com/od/gettingstarted/a/082211-The-Importance-Of-A-Stocks-Share-Price.htm
Since July 18th, Nokia has been perplexing with a gradual recovery in stock value. Helped slightly with better than expected (the worst was expected) Q2 results, strong performing Ashas and prospect of upcoming Lumia WP8. Another thing playing into Nokia’s hands is Samsung’s slight ‘stumble’ against Apple.
Sami Sarkamies, ‘analyst’ from Nordes said:
In addition to Apple, we name Microsoft and Nokia as the main beneficiaries from this outcome
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/us-nokia-shares-idUSBRE87Q05B20120827
A Nomura ‘analyst’ added:
We think that the real winner hear will be Microsoft and the Windows Phone ecosystem…
…As Android and Apple tear each other apart, Microsoft has been waiting in the wings and is in a very good position to move in and entice users to switch from Android to Microsoft, as we have already seen that user loyalty is low
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/us-nokia-shares-idUSBRE87Q05B20120827
Every little helps I guess and Nokia does need all the help it can get.
Category: Nokia
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There were interesting comments from ex-Nokian Juha-Pekka Helminen (https://twitter.com/jphelminen)
He states for example that most likely the court ruling will benefit MS/WP. On the other hand Nokia might feel more pressure from Samsung, since WP will be more interesting for them from now on.
The ruling is also positive for Meego/Mer. Mer (if they are in fact in better position regarding patens) will be more appealing for other Android manufacturers.
The risk and threat with WP almost similar with Android. Nokia have being avoiding Android since its existence. Now, if WP8 become successful, more or most of current Android OEMs will jump ship or make both OSes. So the challenge will always be there and design plus add on apps are the only different.
But you forgot, that Nokia gets Navteq-royalties out of every single WP8 sold (no matter who produces / sells it), so why should Nokia be worried about the growing ecosystem? Believe me, they are more willing to receive other players to WP8 than watching them staying with Android.
you think the map royalties would offset the loss in sales if Samsung cranks it up ? I don’t think so..
I didn’t say that. But still, it would be better for Nokia if the overall WP8 ecosystem would grow, instead of Android.
I see what you are saying, but a growing WP ecosystem might turn into a diminishing market share for Nokia within it.. So we will have to wait and see what happens I guess
60% of a coke can or 30% of a 3L bottle of coke.
Exactly. Nokia being on the same platform as others is at no detriment to them. When the competition gets compared oranges to oranges with Nokia, I really think there will be no contest. Build quality, proprietary apps, support, these are things other OEMs will have to work on to keep up. Not just Beats Audio gimmicks and larger screens.
Fans of any other manufacture will be at each other’s throats as we have been here when or if the subject comes up as to Samsung or HTC putting majority interest into WP8.
Regarding the wp is interesting for Samsung. I don’t agree, they’re top dog at the android community, and there is no number 2 guy close to their position (HTC has been incurring losses lately, despite the good HW specs nobody wants LG because of there track record of not supporting their phone’s SW)
As said by numerous articles Sammy can survive the 1 billion + fine, and Im thinking its a somewhat minor speed bump in the grand scheme of things for Samsung.
By not interested, I meant not to a high degree in which they would focus their attention on WP more
I agree with you. It’s the best billion dollars Samsung could have ever spent. This is a minor stumble at the very most on the temporary balance sheet, but a genius investment in long run.
http://gigaom.com/2012/08/25/counterintuitive-did-samsung-emerge-a-winner/
Yeah, I read they made a 3 billions revenue just in Q2 2012.
Anyway, I would preffer it if the majority of Nokia’s competitors were other WP OEMs instead of android OEMs.
Jay, the 1bn dollar fine is just the top of the iceberg. Samsung’s shares are down 7.5%. That translates to… 12 bn dollars!! Even for a profitable megacorp like Samsung 12bn is a LOT of money (And we are not even touching the real possibility of having its Android devices banned in the US market. The US market is a third of Samsung’s operations)
Yes, this is a valid point. Today, markets evaluated Samsung’s smartphone drawback worth the whole Nokia Corporation, around 12bn in dollars.
So, you can either say that the galaxy line is quite something extraordinary to be worth more than the whole Nokia Corporation, or, Nokia may be heavily undervalued at the moment. You do the math
Samsung executives are not arranging emergency meetings on sunday evening, if this was just a minor blow for them…
And in case you haven’t heard, they actually had an emergency meeting:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2012/08/133_118242.html
Doesnt really sound like true emergency, if they arrive at 9 o’clock in the morning.
I mean if they ban even .. 50% of the phones on that list from the US market, it will hurt their bottom line:
http://i.imgur.com/TYq1m.jpg
Ya its more than just the fine… much more.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/samsung-holds-emergency-meeting-after-us-verdict-2012-08-26?siteid=bnbh
User loyalty is high for Nokia..
if it isn’t now, then it will be after WP8 launches ^
User loyalty high?
Huh?
Googoos statement to OEMs today,”good luck wit dat”.
Sammie may face growing pressure on washing machines as tariffs continue to rise because of Sammie price dumping.
Not so smart Sammie. We’ve seen this a million times before and then they fall hard.
First, even if it would help MS, it certainly wouldn’t help Nokia. WP is owned by MS so the benefits go to them and if the ecosystem miraculously comes to life on Nokia’s watch, MS will immediately stab Nokia into back. From the start the whole new Windows ecosystem is being structured so that MS will be the supreme ruler sucking all the money, leaving the rest of WP pack to fight over few pieces.
Second, it actually wont help MS. The judicial process isn’t finished, and the believe that you can take away product that has two thirds of market and sells in hundreds of millions by legal gimmicks, is ridiculous. Instead of betting everything on layers, marketing and their Windows/Office monopolies, MS should create competitive product that can stand on its own. But they don’t seem to be able to do that and so they failed and will continue to fail.
Right on cue.
they do work like clockwork don’t they?
Asian OEM says windows may get 33% of the market because of the apple lawsuit and he was speaking as an Android OEM. I’ll take his word first.
In other sources it is said that the court judgement applies only to old tech two years back and Sammy & Google have already done a lot to avoid further problems.
and what would a competitive product that can stand on it’s own look like?
If it’s not android he doesn’t want to hear about it. Windows is light years ahead of android.
people don’t seem to understand that the market os oversaturated. there isn’t room for any new os. it will take years for wp to gain more marketshare so it will fit with the initial predictions that by 2016 will be the nr 2 smartphone os/ecosystem. but for other operating systems that are released now, i doubt there is any chance of succes. it’s not just the os, it’s about the whole ecosystem behind it, the bussiness agreements between carriers and manufacturers.
but he does sound like a broken record
And imagine if meego were in the mix…good luck outspending Microsoft on dev support
More WP phones sold = More profit for Nokia. No reason to make things complicated or diss the fact.
more wp sold, the ecosystem grows, the number of developers coming to wp grows so we will see things developed for wp first not just for android. this benefits nokia in the long run together with all their exclusive features. so far all the processing,screen,tehnlogy inovation comes becasue android is pushing it. would be nice to see the tables turned a bit
What technology innovations are you talking about? Symbian brought all the tech to the field, Android is just copying those as fast as possible.
Sure, more GHz to processors and more ppi to screens, but that just about it what Android brought to the table. Nothing else.
Spot on.
Why do you think Nokia is going to get more WP sales from this? At worse Google will be forced to implement some workarounds that will cripple the user experience a little.
And even if this would wound Android, why do you think it would bring more profits to Nokia? Samsung, HTC, ZTE, etc would throw their weight behind WP and then Nokia would be in precisely the same trouble as is now, in fact it would be a bit worse, because they wouldn’t be able to jump around the “different” thing.
The saying “A rising tide lifts all boats” does have some merit.
+1 and it goes without saying that Nokia is not the same type of boat as the others in the Msft ocean.
Exactly. Nokia has perks others don’t in determining the course of Windows Phone. Similar to the “first among equals” arrangement Nokia had with Symbian back when other OEMs were using it.
Extremely sorry I disagree with you as Samsung has a great head start in android Nokia has that in windows phone and the hardware what Nokia gives is top class . Certainly it will help Nokia . In India I know people who bought lumia because it is Nokia and not ms.
If wp8 is really great Nokia will be the undisputed leader and Samsung will be like what htc is for android now ( 2 ranker) .
In fact it is Samsung and HTC who had headstart on WP front, Nokia released their first WP phones year later. Samsung isn’t putting much effort into WP now, but no doubt they are giving it enough to stay in the game so they can quickly go into high gear if situation changes. And they would get all the support from MS, competition between WP OEMs is exactly what MS wants.
Any headstart HTC and Samsung had in WP they wasted by delivering mediocre products and ignoring that platform for the past years. That’s nothing compared to Nokia’s headstart now. Granted, HTC was at least trying a little – and failing, but credit where credit is due, at least there was minimal effort compared to Samsung’s no effort.
Now, if Samsung were to suddenly move aggressively to WP8 from launch and make it their priority ot at least a real effort, sure, they might still wound that headstart but not indifinitely. Nokia is making great strides in making Lumia a bigger brand than Windows Phone.
Lumia can be bigger brand than WP, but that just shows how irrelevant WP is. If others manufacturers take WP seriously, they will kill Nokia on price and MS will gladly help them at that, because driving down the price of phones and OEMs profit margins is exactly what they want. And it’s Elop who put Nokia into that position.
It’s quite delusional to think that Nokia can pull off Apple and ride on the brand thing, especially when Lumia is irrelevant outside the tiny WP island.
They’d get some more revenue from the locations unit though.
Is that a fact? It sounds like the inclusion of Navteq maps was for free / based on fixed fee. Nokia might get some money from location based adverts in the future.
Sounds like that based on what? I seriously doubt it was a one of payment or for free without any regard to the number of devices it would be used on, or some link to the level of license fees for use of WP.
Sounds like that based on paranoia. There has never been any reason to believe such things other than generic Elop paranoia/hate and lack of understanding for the true/total nature of the Windows Phone deal.
Even when a pricing site for Nokia Location Platform goes up, people think it is given away free or through platform support payments to Microsoft and all its licensees. The thing has huge value to Nokia, assuming they’d give it away for free and the board going along with that is practically zero.
I think the burden of proof is on those who make such claims, it is an extremely large and unrealistic claim to make with simply innuendo to offer as proof.
All public comments from Nokia suggest they expect new revenue streams from WP8. Already through patents they get revenues from many manufacturers, I doubt this is any different.
Well, given that Elop managed to kill own products that brought billions in profits, exclusively singed up for irrelevant broken OS that Nokia will not own, deliberately extinguished all alternatives and leverages and made Nokia totally dependent on company that has rich history of mercilessly killing its “partners”, to name just a few things, I think giving the map data away for free/platform support wouldn’t make it even to the footnotes.
You started this when you claimed Nokia will get new stream of money in Q4 from all the licenses payments. I just asked where you got that information and why it for example can’t be already included in platform support. If all you are basing it on is “Elop wouldn’t be such fool”, well then…
The bizarre thing is that royalties even aren’t important for the where fantasy. If there are any money in locations, you certainly wont get them by selling licenses for the basic data. Google isn’t what company because they charge you (or your computer retailer) for access to the search bar.
Nokia is the “ONLY OEM” that only Microsoft “supports” as it is the key to its success and Nokia is the only one that invests in WP FULLY without Android distractions… And most people have said they will buy Lumia instead of other brands because of the support Nokia has put behind Lumia. So we’ll have to wait and see…
Samsung may just abandoned US market and concentrate on rest of the world, such as Asia, which they are strongly presented. American may just keep their choice using iPhone only, or WP if Nokia able to sustained. But I not sure whether patent granted to Apple by USA can be applied to rest of the world or not…??
The same concept been used by Nokia previously, even with just minimum market share in US, but they still world’s King.
Sometime “similar feel or look” as claimed by Apple just plain nonsense. I had no problem with Apple product, but really don’t their attitude/way of doing business.
As comparison, Nokia is miles better as compared with Apple. Apple get free ride on Nokia’s intellectual for years before they finally admitted and pay royalty to Nokia last year (free ride time from iphone 1G, 2G, 3GS and 4, only till 4S they bowed and paid). Nokia is very gentleman through out the negotiation process, and give Apple plenty of time.
Hence, Samsung and Apple are just same, HI-Tech Thief !!
Hopefully, Nokia, as Father of Mobile Tech Giant, able to sustained through this hard time, no matter whether WP is permanent or just temporary bridge.
Seem brighter light been cast out recently for Nokia in coming WP8 product, and now average consumer is more and more likely to accept the WP in Nokia’s product.
No way. The US market is their most profitable market, if they do this, they will end up like Nokia.. which seemed not to care about the US market in the late 90′s and early 00′s.
Its all really ironic, because technically Samsung is using american software (android) but at the same time that is where their problems come from. And.. Google really doesn’t give a fck about the OEMs, they already have a huge install base for their marketing platform (android), and they have Motorola to make their phones.. so whatever happens to the rest of them.. who cares.
Most of Samsung’s problems are because of the changes they made to base Android in their Touchwiz modifications. Google warned them not to make these changes but they went ahead anyway, copying Apple.
Android 4.x is different to the 2.x + Touchwiz interface Samsung were using and if Samsung kept to that and also didn’t copy the iPhone hardware design, they’d not have been in court.
If manufacturers stuck to the basic Android install then they could argue the UI is Google’s problem to protect against patent war not theirs.
apple praising the design of a nokia lumia in court and the whole world hears about it …. money just can’t buy that kind of advertisement.
if apple has scared some android oems then maybe they will start to produce more wp8 products, and the more oems that join wp8 the more royalties nokia earns,
thanks apple
If only . .
The judgement does not effect the latest Galaxy III only older products.
And there are other suppliers of Android devices with designs that DO clearly differ from the iPhone.
I think that the analysist are just talking up Windows Phone OS chances (their track to date has not been impressive).
Best wait until the autumn launches (iPhone 5, Nokia WP8 and Motorola) before making any judgements.
I hope that Nokia have more to rely upon than court judgements between competitors.
NOKs shares have been shooting up for a few weeks now and im jumping for joy as I’ve been making quite a bit since i bought when it was at a low point yippeee
So there was no way Microsoft would have allowed nokia to be the only provider of windows 8 devices?. this meaning HTC and samsung especially are somehow not allowed to make windows 8 devices?. I know this benefits MS the most if they all distribute however i just wanted to know if it was / is possible to make nokia the only exclusive company to W8 only devices. Thus all nokia devices sold are W8 devices. I guess if this cant be done, nokia really have to push with a heap of stuff that their phones are by far superior, thus nobody will think of buying a htc w8 or samsung w8 phones.
The time will tell how they benifet from it.
I also think Nokia won’t benefit too much from this Samsung stumble, but one area where it might help is the operator relations in the U.S. If they get nervous about Android, they might take WP and Nokia more seriously.
Has Apple really ever invented anything?
http://9gag.com/gag/5195630