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Nokia sets trends again, iPhone 5 attempts oversampling like Nokia 808 PureView

| September 21, 2012 | 43 Replies

SlashGear reports that the iPhone 5 is attempting to do some oversampling of its 8MP photos in order to improve low light performance.

The Nokia 808 PureView showed us how this can work in creating the super pixel, condensing 41MP to either 8, 5 or 3MP. The lower the output, the more oversampling.

http://www.slashgear.com/your-8mp-iphone-5-may-only-give-you-4mp-photos-but-its-not-broken-21248848/

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The interesting bit is that the switch apparently occurs automatically. I had hoped this would have been the case with the 808 prior to announcement.

Do you reckon Apple did this out of the blue or is this Nokia setting trends again (sadly, people will credit oversampling to iPhone only, and also possibly OIS in iPhone 6).

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Category: Nokia

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Kit

    If Nokia get it running on WP first, I guess then settles it. Also I believe the algorithm is not that simple. Unless Elop fired all people from camera R&D.

    • Joris Bos

      Stop with that nonsense.

      • lore_rock

        are you ronan keating? i like your song “life is a roller coaster”!

        • lore_rock

          i’m sarcastic

          • Cani Lamentoqua

            The Fermat thesis was THAT simple and they were thinking over how to prove it some more hundreds years. Understanding is understanding, inventing is like a spark in the light of day – it is easy to lose it.

  • Mariano

    Definitely Nokia needs to kick their marketing employees.

    Apple won without nothing, it is a Volvo vs Ferrari

  • Carbontubby

    Apple’s huge marketing machine and iFan’s defensiveness of their anointed company means that any slight, stupidly incremental improvement will be seen as a revolutionary change. The iPhone 5 packs some interesting new silicon but the overall package is disappointing compared to a Lumia 920 or a Galaxy S3, but Apple will still sell a few boatloads to people who think anything new is better.

    Nokia doesn’t rely so much on hype and unfortunately, it means selling less. Nokia fans also aren’t dumb consumers who lap up anything coming out of Finland. We’ve been disappointed and screwed around with too many times :)

    • deep space bar

      yea….tread carefully now cause of that …..and it;s g eting worse for them cause of what they’ve done so far in the last 2 years

    • Rinslowe

      Couldn’t agree more, when it comes to marketing Nokia’s still stuck in the sweeter days, thinking people are just paying attention.
      Not any more and I think Elop has made some tough decisions over the last say 12+ months not all of those decisions smart ones. WP was a smart move. Practically culling the entire talent until they become motivated to be the competition wasn’t smart.
      If Nokia invested in a decent Marketing Team, willing to get current and grow some balls, then they could compete in the mindspace with companies like Apple (who are a brilliant marketing machine), and lets face it, Nokia needs this because not only should they be strutting their sht all over town, they can back it up as well. Something even Apple can’t do mostly. For eg: Most slimmest phone & Worlds most advanced screen technology…

      Hmm…

      • Cani Lamentoqua

        Apple marketing “machine” is based on devoted enthusiasts who believe that they can have from Apple best-of-the-best-something whatever it is. Also iOS is based on Unix and compatibility older-newer is very big advantage. Nokia recently has done everything what was possible to disappoint Nokia’s enthusiasts who share and promote good feelings about Nokia product. They are minority of the community in number, but majority considering impact – I mean effectiveness of communication and reaching unique customers with infos. It will be more then hard to obtain the same positive feelings for Steve E. proposed products. I think there is no need to remind neither N9 nor MeeGo or Symian, and how customers were disappointed. Do you believe it will be forgotten so easy? DO you believe Apple would treat their customers in the same way? They have had serious troubles in their history, so it can be verified. And results they have obtained in the effect. Historia magistra vitae est (Latin – History is the teacher of life). For those who want to learn.

  • deep space bar

    I think nokia need to STFU about things like this….cause it’s their weapon for success but elop keeps exposing it

    • ms.nokia

      “A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject”
      – Winston Churchill

      • deep space bar

        next please i’m not if you expose your weapons to the enemy….90% of the time and never release it till 4 months after

  • Prashant

    The oversampling in iPhone5 isn’t similar to what we have seen in PureView.

    808 uses data from 5 pixels to make an 8MP image (5*8 =40. During oversampling 808 eliminates Bayer interpolation. It packs (theoretically) thrice the detail that cam be captured by a conventional 5MP sensor of similar size. The PureView Pro whitepaper says

    oversampling eliminates Bayer pattern problems. For example, conventional (Bayer)8MPix sensors include only 4Mpix green, 2Mpix red and 2Mpix blue pixels, which are interpolated to 8Mpix R, G, B image. With pixel oversampling, all pixels become true R, G, and B pixels

    Hence Bayer matrix results in loss of 30-50% of the real resolving power of the sensor.

    If iphone5 is producing 4MP image means there is Bayer interpolation, and it will probably have the same details as a 2Mp image from 808 and Noise similar to 8MP Pureview (assuming 5 and 4 pixel oversampling results are nearly same because Apple is using a BSI CMOS sensor)

    • deep space bar

      it’s s smaller sensor FFS

  • Jakob

    Wow, so after a week of both this site and Nokia themselves bashing the 808 (I mean seriously what kind of company goes out of its way to put down its own product) now all of sudden the 808 is a cool trendsetter because the Iphone 5 is following suit with a similar software implementation!

    Ridiculous. The 808 is not a chunky useless phone no matter what Nokia or other Symbian haters say. Elop and co don’t need to hate on Symbian in order to be successful.

    • Dave

      “Bashing the 808″ ? What planet do you live on ?

      • deep space bar

        if it ain’t american then it doesn’t matter…and that’s the AMERICAN WAY

    • http://mynokiablog.com Jay Montano

      Wow, so after a week of both this site and Nokia themselves bashing the 808 (I mean seriously what kind of company goes out of its way to put down its own product)

      Where am I bashing the Nokia 808 PureView? Oh you mean where I show a comparison between the 920 and the 808 yet say over and over that at least 90% of the time the 808 would be better and still is the superior camera it’s just that for one particular area, the 920 looks to be better?

      Oh I’m sorry about that. It’s clearly my biased eyes. The 920 with what looks to be the clearer image in low light is worse. It’s only true when I compare it against an iPhone or SGSIII but if I get similar results against the 808 then it’s my WP fanboy bias.

      I’m tired of all this.

  • M

    Apple’s version kicks in during low light settings to make up for fewer pixels.

    Anybody see the article on the Verge yet?

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/21/3368146/lumia-920-radio-controlled-car-ois

  • dss

    what Nokia did with the 808 is in terms of imaging is huge .. Everybody knows it, and its only a matter of time until they all attempt it. As far as i know there is a 70 patent ring around the 808 tech, so let’s hope apple is paying up.

    • Cani Lamentoqua

      Or will invent their own solution and will patent it, then accuse Nokia for stealing intellectual rights and Nokia will pay Apple for own idea.

  • Pawlee

    This’ll make for amusing conversations if someone ever tries to lord this fact up over me if phone camera discussions ever rolled round

    Them: “You think your cameras good, well my new iPhone makes low light shots look better by using less pixels but by making them take out noise”
    Me: “Really? With 8 mega pixels? That’s cute… my phone does that with 41 mega pixels”

    Shame Nokia chose not to market the 808 at all, because it now seems a lot of people are giving it a lot more of the respect it deserves (possibly after seein that FP2 doesn’t look that bad to Symbian outsiders). Ah well, it’s nice to have something different and unique :)

    • deep space bar

      +1

    • Alan

      In a few months they’ll probably be granted a patent for “A system to automatically downsample captured images to reduce digital noise in a wireless device”

      Notice the “automatically” bit? That’s key, and the only thing they improved on.

  • Bfrenz

    “You can fool all the people some of the
    time, and some of the people all the time,
    but you cannot fool all the people all the
    time.”-Abraham Lincoln.

    • Cani Lamentoqua

      Exactly. No way. Savings on customers cost with worse money to earn.

  • jona

    A bit off topic but i just read on Nokia Netherlands page on facebook
    that they will close all of their Nokia care points
    why is that ?

  • Waqas Ahmad Khan

    Nokia Blog admins seems desperate keep coming up with such desperate looking pieces.

  • http://www.thedeathmerchant.com/ Death Merchant

    Apple never invents anything. It always steals things others have spent time and resources developing. Apple is like a pack of hyenas. It waits the lions and cheetahs do the heavy work and then just steals the hunted prey from them.

  • jake20

    iphone 5 low light vs iphone 4s..

    http://www.inrumor.com/in/technology/iphone-5-photos-in-low-light-
    are-better-than-4s/

  • qromodynmc

    hi guys, out of topic but you must see that; I laughed so bad
    http://www.9gag.com/gag/5419582
    :)

    • Viipottaja

      Its just that you don’t understand that people want simplicity in their maps.. too many locations, so confusing, see? ;)

  • TS
  • aleci

    Its so funny at how much you people make fun of the iSheeps for being so loyal and all even though Apple seems to be giving them sh!tty products :D

    UMMMMMMMMMM Nokia Fans were originally the iSheeps! Blinded by their love for the brand @_@ It was Nokia fans who would buy a new freaking phone for the latest version of Symbian with a hefty tag price.

    Yes people, you’re are poking fun of yourselves.

    • Carbontubby

      Yes, nFans definitely were. We swallowed up the worst of Nokia’s Symbian shit even when it was truly shit compared to the competition. It takes quite a bit of self-delusion to swallow Nokia’s marketing hype and spend good money on a piece of junk like the N97, then keep believing it’s good when it was outclassed even before it launched.

      Been there, done that ;) Hopefully wiser now. Nokia’s pissing on its own fans and its subsequent crash in the market forced the company to be genuinely innovative rather than milking its ever shrinking buyer base. We Nokia fans – the few that are left – still have a soft spot for the Finnish giant but we’re a lot more wary of false promises.

  • Carbontubby

    If you want to see the results of a Bayer matrix vs. a 1:1 real pixel layout like with Sigma’s Foveon sensors, check out the Sigma DP2 Merill camera. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp2m_review.shtml

    The lack of an antialiasing filter combined with a Foveon sensor layout and sharp lenses make for amazing detail. The 808’s supersampling tries to get around the limitations of the Bayer matrix by averaging the neighboring pixels to create a super pixel.

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