Gigaom with Stephen Elop: Nokia can do things with WP that MS can’t
Well, just yesterday we heard Stephen Elop at AllThingsD saying he had no indications that Microsoft are planning on building their own phone
Perhaps that’s just a clever way of skirting around the question or if it’s just that he can’t say even if he knows.
Gigaom also explore the same topic.
http://gigaom.com/2012/10/02/nokias-elop-we-can-do-things-with-windows-phone-that-microsoft-cant/
Stephen Elop explains that the 920 contains years and years of work that can’t just be duplicated by people deciding to suddenly build a WP. The prospect of a MS WP would not change their relationship apparently. Nokia will continue to build innovative devices, and the likes of the 920 is worth years and years of work and investment.
“For example, the reason the Lumia 920 is standing out so well amongst the competition, one of the reasons is the imaging capability, this low-light photography capability. That’s five or six years of work in our labs, engineers doing nothing else but working on that technology. Saying, “oh, this year, we’re going to do our own phone,” doesn’t allow you to do that. You have to make those investments over a period of time.”
http://gigaom.com/2012/10/02/nokias-elop-we-can-do-things-with-windows-phone-that-microsoft-cant
The next question is also important to many – how can Nokia prevent themselves from losing control with their eggs in one basket?
Things are apparently defined contractually and in practice. The way Nokia operates, jointly setting priorities for what needs to be done, making sure there are exclusive capabilities for Nokia in things most important to them e.g. giving nokia the ‘hooks’ to expand in imaging, but .
“the actual magic that makes optical image stabilization work, which is hardware and software, is done by Nokia engineers.”
http://gigaom.com/2012/10/02/nokias-elop-we-can-do-things-with-windows-phone-that-microsoft-cant/
Elop says MS could create custom parts for WP if they wanted. Quite an important comment -
important point about what we’ve done at Nokia, the percentage of our R&D that’s focused on productive R&D–not plumbing–has gone up substantially.
http://gigaom.com/2012/10/02/nokias-elop-we-can-do-things-with-windows-phone-that-microsoft-cant
So Nokia aren’t just making things that spend all their days in the labs. R&D that actually ends up on devices and in consumer hands.
Gigaom pushes further on getting Elop to talk about a special version of WP for Nokia. Elop is still keeping lips firmly closed, saying:
We have rights beyond any of the other manufacturers to do unique things and to enforce certain exclusivities for our products. We don’t disclose what those are, or the extent of those. But we have the ability to differentiate.
http://gigaom.com/2012/10/02/nokias-elop-we-can-do-things-with-windows-phone-that-microsoft-cant
Finally, when Gigaom says competing with MS makes the world a little different, Elop says that regardless of who is making the phones, Nokia preserve the same rights under the contract.
Cheers Liju for the tip!
Category: Nokia
About the Author (Author Profile)
Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.comSubscribe
If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more just like it.
guess msft is developing a phone its kind of expected that they would or at least should eventually
Agreed, I think they have to.
+1 but..
Jesse honest non troolish question..
how come??? I have some ideas but would like to hear yours…
Nokia near death? Microsoft opting for a apple business model?
More that Microsoft is opting for an Apple Business model. I think for MS to compete with Apple they need to merge devices and services/software.
From a marketing perspective I think this is important. You need a clear message and not multiple companies with their own message.
But more importantly to keep up with the industry you need that level of control to push your platform forward. Microsoft doesn’t want to spend it’s time writing drivers and meeting the demands of OEM’s for hardware and updates, they need to push the hardware based on their vision and not the other way around.
Kinect is a great example, Kinect on Xbox is a product with a clear message that is easy to market, sell, bundle, write software for and promote.
Kinect on the PC is impossible to market or write profitable software for because there are too many variables in play.
Surface is another great example, I don’t think Surface is doing anything better than the OEM’s but it is a clear message. This is a Microsoft touch product that has Microsoft Support and Microsoft services. There won’t be multiple stickers plastered over it, or multiple services competing with each other in the default install, it will be a Microsoft product with Microsoft branding and one clear message.
I agree with you, on the assessment and even on the fact that it probably makes sense…
Personally I hate the business model, being an open source fan and all, but yes I think Microsoft is going to try to go forward with something like that.
Not sure they will be able to pull it off, apart from the unbranded windows Xbox Microsoft as failed systematically on hardware, specially the type of hardware that fuels this business model, the overpriced kind.
I also think investors are forcing Microsoft much in to that more than what Microsoft wants actually.
Interesting times ahead for the Redmond company were they will have to reinvent themselves, at the expense of the old business model they had. But I guess the sign was in the wall wen most of the historical MS OEM’s started to experiment with android tablets/phones.
I am not sure how I feel about the model to be honest. I have always been a believer that competition drives innovation and competitive pricing, however the competition has changed. Apple and Google are dominating.
It is no longer about competition within the Microsoft eco-system, it is about keeping up with apple and Google and Microsoft is losing that battle.
Oem’s do not have the resources to compete which leaves Microsoft with no other option.
I agree that ms would rather not but it seems to the only choice.
+++1
Now just put swipe ui then bam!! Please please
Yeah yeah, Elop has win big concessions from MS, he could do things that even MS itself can’t do (lol!). But alas, he will not use his magical powers, instead he will smilingly watch how competition is delivering almost exact replicas of Nokia’s phones and offer us great insights how in Android land he wouldn’t be able to differentiate.
Again, please point out the other WP phones that all have NHC, wireless charging, OIS cameras and super touch sensitive screens.
Oh wait, you can’t.
Those aren’t tied to the OS though ( dunno about super-sensitivity ), those exclusive rights he is talking about sound really vague, and more like something he can use to justify the move to WP. Without more specific info, that just sounds like a lot of hot air.
P.S. I am not against the move to WP, but Elop rarely speaks to the point
Lumia 820 vs. HTC 8S
820 8S
1,5ghz dualcore 1ghz dualcore
4,3″ @ 480×800 4″ @ 480×800
1gb RAM 512mb RAM
8gb inbuilt 4gb inbuilt
both up to 32gb sd
1650mah (changeable 1700mah (inbuilt)
8mp cam, up to 1080p 5mp cam, up to 720p video
video
LTE nope, no LTE fer ya.
A quick comparison.
Didn’t work out as I hoped, sorry about that.
Pretty sure they are LTEs.
http://www.htc.com/ca/smartphones/htc-wp-8s/#specs
According to that spec sheet, no LTE on 8S. It has strangely only two 3g bands as well. What’s quite intriguing though is that there’s no official word on 8X having LTE either, though there are plenty of other proofs of that. 8S, not so much.
820 does have LTE though.
I stand corrected.
what about price 8s retails for around the price of mid range device like galaxy s advance,xperia sola.etc
If there’s something strange in that device it’s those 3G bands. Only dualband, seriously?
Also, Galaxy S Advance is more in line with 820 pricing than with 8S pricing, what with latter being around 225ish £. Closer to Sola that is.
I’m inclined to think there’s plenty of air (Again) in the prices they’ve been giving us for 820/920. Might be wrong though.
So yes, the HW numbers are very close. Then add SW and design to the mix and majority of people won’t see difference between them.
Add price and availability, and you don’t need to be geniues to figure out why MS is picking HTC devices as signature.
For instance, HTC had 16mpix camera in WP7 that is not standard
I don’t think MS has any rules about maximum camera megapixels on WP7, although the SoC (chipset) support limited them to 16 MP in practice. The minimum was defined as 5 MP with AF (yet another difficulty for designing low end phones, albeit a much lesser one than the WVGA display requirement).
What exactly? This vague talk keeps going on and on and on.
Exactly. So far we’ve only heard of Nokia giving its expertise to Microsoft. We’ve still to see why this partnership should benefit Nokia as well.
Do you think they’ve given that expertise for free? MS is PAYING to get Nokia Maps.
MS is not paying for Nokia to go all out WP.
Well, in fact they have been in the form of the platform support payments of $250/quarter. Iirc it might come to an end soon.
Million, that is.
They were already payng for the mapping data before.
True, but not as much as they will now – the WP maps app was their own, now it will be Nokia’s (if I have understood correctly). Similarly, more and more of Bing will be powered by Nokia’s location platform (i.e. not just the raw map data).
ooo no understand the basic, this is saying “Microsoft will bring their phone brand to market, we will do better ones”
Microsoft has never made mobile phones on their own. There are so many things in that small thing called smartphone that contain innovation that can not (and even is not allowed to without license) be copied. It just takes time to build those assets, no matter how much money you have. Look at Apple, their maps did not quite make it in this short time.
heeeee everybody as to license IP even Nokia, making a phone this days is rather trivial see jolla will be able to launch a phone next month.
The reason is that scale/price factors have placed production and supply chain all in china its relatively easy to go to a Compal/Foxconn and reuse one of their phone broads and place them with a different wrap around them, that what Nokia did for the L800 BTW.
Most of the work is not in the phone hardware (if you use standard components) development and licensing, most of the work will be on the promotion selling and creating sales partnerships…
I think Nokia is screwed. Microsoft will prove that going with Windows Phone wasn’t a good idea. At least not with all your eggs in the WP basket.
I feel so sad, would’ve loved to see MeeGo as a second high-end product.
Why can’t they put these efforts into symbian and meego.
They already have a ecosystem Which they can improve on.
Simple. Because it’s a dead platform without any form of ecosystem. Nobody wants that.
Just look at 808. Beautiful hardware but only a select few are interested in buying and less will actually buy.
yes meego is dead, that’s the reason China mobile invested 200 Million in to it.
China Mobile will have to invest a lot more than that to create an ecosystem. They may actually be rich (and crazy) enough to do it…
You guys over estimate the prices of this things, all it takes is users/carriers the rest will come.
Its only wen you don’t have users/carriers that you need to spend copious amounts of money paying developers to pretend they are part of your “ecosystem” angry birds on WP as a blunt example.
they should have replaced Symbian 1:1 or even close to that. The level of initial S^3 sales – 5 million first quarter (maybe even only 2-3 mil – since they only shipped Lumia for half of Q4 2011) and growing fast from there – would have sufficed. It is about momentum out of the gate.
I think there was a lot of that “flip a switch ship millions” mentality Lee Williams talked about in Crave/C-Net interview. When those millions didn’t happen the whole thing came off the rails.
Targets were missed by a lot, IMO. Hence the Q1 profit warning, then Q2 warning/restructuring, firing of head of sales. Such things don’t happen two quarters in a row if you miss targets a little.
Part of that, of course, was much faster then expected Symbian decline. But a big part must have been Lumia underperformance.
And there are lots of signs that Nokia/MSFT relations are cooling. MSFT allowing Samsung to announce WP phone before Nokia. HTC “signature” WP devices. Ballmer getting on stage at HTC launch – making that event in effect almost equal to Sept. 5th, Microsoft’s own smartphone (if true). And in response – Elop’s reitaration that Nokia cand fragment WP if they choose so, or his quip that Nokia may rights to hinder features of Microsoft’s smartphone. All these are a very strong indications that tensions are rising fast in MSFT/Nokia partnership
http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/10/03/why-microsoft-is-right-to-be-pissed-at-nokia-over-the-burning-platforms-windows-phone-deal/
Maybe, are you Staska? Or just copied his comment here?
just quote his
that’s why I gave the link
^_^
when will the q3 result be out?
I think it’s the 18th.
I don’t think MS can do anything to touch the 920 ( except perhaps 4″ on a high-end device ), HTC and Samsung are the ones who mostly lack hw-differentiation and MS-phone would like compete with those ( though it will most likely be limited in availability). Would be nice if Nokia could show off, or tell about, their “exclusive rights” though.
Would be even better if Nokia would advertise the 920 properly. And drop the price of the 820…
Yes, advertising is now Nokias single challenge. The 920 now excels as a product beating all market leaders (iGalaxy) in specs and features.
Now just to get the word out to the average consumer . . . .
Nokia will no longer be the WP brand, Microsoft will, Microsoft is in it to copy apple business model, NOKIA another in the long list of Microsoft $#&%$# over former partners.
Nokia is WP 7.5/7.8 partner forever~
(well that was the time when the contract made)
^_^
time to hire meego/symbian/meltemi guys back
Hehe. Nokia Jolla 920 (Sailfish-Harmattan) doesn’t sound bad at all…
Here we go again, Elop going “WP only” was never good for Nokia, since the beginning people were shouting not to all eggs in the WP basket.
However Elop and Fans play or twist words, MS making their own phones will not be positive for Nokia.
While it wasn’t advantageous going with Android because Google wouldn’t let Nokia replace services like Google Maps with Nokia Maps, if rumors of MS going forward with their own phone keep coming, it would serve in Nokia’s best interests to show they have a Plan B.
They really don’t want to be in the position PC’s OEMs are…
“While it wasn’t advantageous going with Android because Google wouldn’t let Nokia replace services like Google Maps with Nokia Maps”
This is not true its simply is not true, and I’m not a Google fan.
I don’t see what’s wrong with the statement… in order to get approval on the better versions of Android you need to hit a certain amount of criteria as I understand it, and I’m pretty sure using googles services is a big part of that – making a phone with Google Maps and Nokia maps out the box would confuse people and not be good for Nokia (and their maps)… whereas now they have a deal where the whole of the WP ecosystem uses their maps.
If Nokia had released on Android with an inferior android version then they would have been laughed at, as people wouldn’t understand why Samsung and HTC are churning out the latest version and Nokia are so far behind (given, not everyone would understand but some people would be confused)
That’s at least how I see it…
android itself is open source the google apps are not, so all they’d have to do is what amazon is doing and just fork out a version, and stick in their stuff. and infact with the way nokia worked with previous symbian software and hardware, i.e. new software pretty much came with new hardware only, it would be a perfect fit, just bust out a fork/hardware for each new version if they’d like 1,2,3,4 etc… and just update the software for the 0.x versions inbetween
of course they could just improve on their forks like amazon, but i suspect nokia never really had a great emphasis on software
And they would be in even worse situation regarding applications, as they wouldn’t be able to licence the Google Play.
Yeah chroo, if Nokia did anything that jeapordised their way at getting to Google play then they’d be laughed out the game.
Whats the point going for Android if you aren’t utilizing it’s ecosystem? At that point it makes more sense to develop an os of your own…
I would need to dig out the reference, but I am pretty sure Elop said, back in the day, that the reason they went WP and not Android was because Google wouldn’t let Nokia use their own services for differentiation and added value. Which mean Maps, Nokia Music, Books etc.
A Nokia device without Nokia Maps? Not gonna happen. Navteq is in itself one of Nokia’s pillars.
and what would block Nokia to ship Nokia android devices with an Nokia map app? its not like all other companies do similar things in android…
the argument that Nokia could not do that is plain silly…heck nokia could put the app in the google store for sale and give it to nokia smart-phone consumers. (profit + profit)
Samsung uses it’s own services on the s3. Nothing about not allowing Android OEM to use or add their own service. Elop was using fancy terms or fancy excuses.
I get that Nokia does not want the competition but until Windows bc competitive w/ Android/Apple, the more the merrier until it catches on.
“nokia-can-do-things-with-wp-that-ms-cant” Like Selling / leasing their HQ LOL
hahahahaha
+1 ooo
but JD don’t you know its a good move its smart to do that because some one is gona buy the HQ and lose money on it to give to nokia tss tss.
Guess you have some type of degree hanging on your wall relating to real estate then. /s
Actually I was in the business before entering this area. 15 years ago.
But what you guys described as “good” is nothing more than accountant tricks to use the books devaluation of real-estate and turn a book profit in the end of a quarter, its not good for the company but good for the quarterly report…
This pledge of only focusing on positive quarterly reports as been bringing alot of companies to the ground, this way of making fake speculative money is at the core of the western industrial demise.
Many CEO’s only focus’s on that as their income is closely connected to those metrics so in their view its must be good as their quarterly bonus will be good…
But hey its obvious that some one is gona pay nokia a truck load of money wile at teh same time lose money on rent nokia is gona pay….tss tss tss…(this idea is soo noncence that its pathetic, any possible buyer will have to account for the interest they will have to pay on the loan they take to buy the building, so the rent will have to pay for that, in the loan original life span, the maintenance costs, the risk involved, and a profit for the investor, any kid from economical school will tell you the same thing, but what do he know?…)
Looking at it solely from a financial standpoint, a shortterm one that is, one can easily conclude it is a bad move just to puff up the books.
In Nokia’s case this probably is even highly plausible since they have been showing such bad results. I’m leaning towards this being a quick way of generating cash.
On the other hand, looking at it purely from a Real Estate strategy perspective it is a smart move. If Real Estate contributes very little to you core business then why manage it yourself. If your business revolves around retail units where good locations are a prominent element of it. It makes sense to manage your own real estate since it contributes to your business strategy, in fact it is a pillar of your business.
In Nokia’s case the building contributing very little to there core business, their brand identity or even their perception of succes.
If Nokia were to look at a constant future without any major changes they wouldn’t have to sell the building. In this case I see Nokia changing a lot, there is a huge cut in staff and thus a declining need for space in the future. Be it due to Elop or not, I believe Nokia already was too big for what it was doing and needed to cut jobs anyway, but that is irrelevant here.
Regarding the rent vs. owning. Yes, rent cost consists of a few basic thing or actually the yield is built up of a few things. An investor will calculate upfront what the building is worth and what kind of yield he wants. That together determines what the purchasing price will be.
Owh, and economics are in play here. But econically schooled people I would not have touch my real estate strategy. You need proper schooled people for that, otherwise you only have number crunchers and not people that look at the actual real estate and the factors besides money that are in play there.
Darn, this is getting far too serious for the MNB comment section.
Nokia must be one of Jolla alliances with there swipe UI.
everything solved :p
Maybe they will put an x86 CPU under the hood
As could have been predicted, this topic has turned into a negative circle jerk, populated by the usual suspects.
Here’s a deal for you guys: how about you stay in here and be as negative as you like but don’t post in any other topics so the rest of us – those who remain and haven’t been driven away by your constant sniping – can enjoy the blog?
“As could have been predicted, this topic has turned into a negative circle” …..populated by the usual “elop is the greatest CEO” suspects.
we see a lot more random Elop critics than the traditional apologist of the only WP strategy rocks.. But it will soon change Nokia as not many fans left as the sales numbers prove…
There are a few things I see/don’t see reading this interview.
I don’t see a Trojan. I think all talk of an Elop trojan has ceased, because he simply doesn’t look like one as the story unfolds.
I don’t see a story where Microsoft is buying Nokia. If anything, clearly Nokia is marching to its own beat here.
I do see a special relationship with Microsoft. Talk of that has been constant, although details are kept close to vest. But also, that this special relationship has been carved out for Nokia’s benefit, not for some corporate merger between Nokia and Microsoft.
People may muddy the waters at times, with HTC or whatnot, but the thing is: Nokia is doing Lumia for Nokia. Not for Microsoft. And for their special bet, Nokia is getting certain privileges from Microsoft that others are not getting. Yet both parties are keeping a distance.
Whether or not Nokia will succeed with the strategy, that of course is an open question. But I think we are seeing a Nokia doing things for Nokia’s benefit. Clearly evidenced in how the Lumia brand, Nokia City Lens, Xpress brand and whatnot, are built separate of Windows Phone.
Nokia is definitely not doing things to become synonymous with Windows Phone. They don’t print WP on their phones like HTC does. Nokia is creating their own identity using it as one element of their plans. That leaves open doors for the future as well.
The story continues to show that he deliberately painted nokia in a corner that is contracting by the minute.
Or that’s how you see it
Hardly. More like we are seeing why the board approved of this plan. Nokia is using Windows Phone to leverage themselves (in both smartphones and location), not the other way around. Microsoft is doing their thing, Nokia is doing their own thing. As it should be. Both are keeping their distance (unlike some naysayers suggested earlier), yet there is also a special contract in place guaranteeing certain things.
On February 11th Nokia’s CFO Timo Ihamuotila said Nokia will be doing the “Nokia experience” on Windows Phone. As people like HTC are looking more like Nexus-builders for WP7, Nokia is doing a “Galaxy” on Windows Phone and taking it their own way. If it all works out, Lumia will be more prominent than the WP brand.
The buzz over Nokias mapping in recent weeks is another piece of the puzzle. The Microsoft deal (along with Oracle, Amazon and all others), which will expand beyond WP8 to other Microsoft ecosystems, allows Nokia to raise their profile – just as WP7/8 helps Nokia build Nokia Lumia.
When you do an “HTC Windows Phone” type of device, you are definitely tying that phone brand to Windows Phone. What Nokia is doing with Lumia is not brand-wise or service-wise tied to Windows Phone. They are building Nokia and its sub-brands up, not Microsoft brands (like HTC is). They are leveraging Microsoft’s things to build up their own brand-recognition.
I think creating the “Lumia” brand was one of the smartest things Nokia did with their new strategy. And the more they build their services on top (Nokia Music, Nokia City Lens, Nokia Xpress and whatnot), the more they are building their own ecosystem on top of the foundation they are licesing from Microsoft.
There is something called hedging your bets. may be EFlop does not understand that.
“Nokia is using Windows Phone to leverage themselves” Nokia chose a pretty small pool then…
Question wen will all of this translate in to sales?????????
When WP sales don’t do well … means we wait, we can ditch WP7 and improve to WP8, cause MS do coding in heaven
When Symbian sales don’t do well… means symbian burning Nokia, cannot improve to Carla or Donna, cause codes become fragile, and Nokia cannot reassemble their talent.
When Meego sales don’t do well… means announce DOA, don’t sell N9 worldwide, and say no ecosystem.
Personally, I’m seeing Elop as offended, and upset, by Microsofts actions ( HTC / own phone ).
Funny, as I see Microsoft being a little offended by Nokia’s Lumia push since they are side-tracking Windows Phone brand.
In all likelyhood, though, neither are either offended or surprised but just doing their thing. Rest is conjecture.
It is not like they don’t know each other intimately as people and as companies. They know who and how their parters are.
think its fairly obvius that what is going on.
Microsoft as they said “looked at nokia books” they did themath and figured that nokia is almost dead, so they went and did a contingency plan.
This will also help Microsoft with their US investors that want Microsoft to mimic apple business model.
The one losing out of this??? NOKIA as usual with ALL Microsoft’s partners.
Actually, Microsoft is more dependant of Nokia than it has ever been. As we can see, mapping has come more and more important and it’s more important part of wp8 aswell.
If Nokia drops wp, Microsoft would be dead. Their whole ecosystem is depending on w8 and wp8 success.
But in the other hand, nokia wont drop wp since they dont have money to do anything else.
Have you thought about the possibility that microsoft is setting up the contingency plan for nokias demise?
one phone from microsoft can’t compete with an army of nokia lumia phones at different price points and all the nokia goodies like maps, camera improvements and so on.if ms would be building their own phone to stab nokia in the back i am sure nokia would know that. do you imagine everyone is clueless in there, even if elop is a trojan horse.
What map? The one that comes with every WP??
Of course Microsoft has a contingency plan, it would be foolish not to. Did they ever say Plan B is to make Nokia a great success story?
Pretty sure, that even if the smartphone section were to tank, and be shut down, the L&C -unit would still licence to MS.
+1
Microsoft cares for WP not Nokia.
Nokia cares for WP not Nokia.
“I do see a special relationship with Microsoft. Talk of that has been constant, although details are kept close to vest.”
Why details have been kept so close if there is a special relationship? M$ isn’t bothering to say special relationship any more. Any proof there is a special relationship other that words?
Once again, a very analysis.
even very good :-S
The Lumia 920 is only the beginning of a long journey that will eventually make android phones look like toys in comparison. Nokia’s problems were largely the result of poor software and a crippled ecosystem, but now that these issues have been addressed I have no doubt they’ll move forward.
if so, how come symbian still outsales WP?? realty is a pain! How come WP is still the fifth ecosystem 2 years after being launched???
No one wants WP, that simple.
Yes, you are simple.
but how about to answer is argument and not resulting to insult?
“No one wants WP” is not an argument worth arguing.
on a rethorical metaforical way i think it prety good I mean its not like its selling like hot cakes, people don’t seam interested enough to buy them…and apart from a lot of probably paid comments as the ones in Amazon not a lot of people are buying the phones right?
so “No one wants WP” wile probably being a rhetorical overstatement is more accurate, than “everybody wants WP” or even “a reasonable amount of people want WP”
True.
Still, a too simplistic a statement to really be worth arguing, especially since its not necessarily about “want” in consumer electronics anyway. Or about WP per se only or even mostly.
About Amazon comments: honestly doubt many if any are paid for.
cool
about amazon, but if they were true the L900 should have sold tons of units no? Or is amazon a sort of parallel universe were WP customers had to flock 2?
Its is fairly obvious that alot of money is being spent by Microsoft or Nokia boosting that sort of positive vibe (fair method I guess as all of them do it). But unfortunately it does not translate into sales.
well, have not checked how many reviews there are on Amazon but I would suspect a few thousand at best. So not sure how representative or a good indicator they are. I do think the broader surveys that show people who have the 900 or WP in general are quite happy with them can be trusted. But that does not necessarily translate to a lot of sales, especially immediately. In any event, at least Nokia is back in the discussion and in the stores here (in the US) and that is, if nothing else, a start and much better than it used to be for many years now.
Can you write a review only if you bought the item from Amazon or anyone can write them? Paid review writing is big business.
Numbers don’t lie. Apple sells 5 million in a weekend(IPhone 5 number). WP does not move that in a quarter. Various fanboys and analyst houses(Paid ones, by M$ like Gartner) predicting WP will capture 20% market. They even predicted a date. They even predicted a date when WP will take over Apple.
Yes, some people do want WP. I would be wrong to day “No One” as the number is not obviously zero. I would say the number is rather really low, lot lower than people who don’t want WP.
Do you have insight to Nokia’s split of sales?
because symbian still sells in asia,africa,india. places like that where they owning a intenret-dependent smartphone isn’t a priority.
because they needed a smartphone platform and ecosystem for the u.s and europe, and there carriers and people don’t want symbian anymore.
even if the people in asia,india,africa,south america buy symbian now in great numbers, in the future as prices for smartphones go down( and the same with data plans and internet access) they will need a stronger ecosystem and os, they will be able to afford it and find use for them. we see that happening with low end android now, in a couple of years those symbian sales will be replace by nokia 610,510 type of devices. that’s why nokia chose this strategy. for the future, not for the present. that is why opk should have done in 2007 or 2008, start thinking about the future and not the present. they kept pushing symbian even if it was not ready for touchscreen phones. they delayed meego and layed little importance for it after the work on it started.people don’t realize that going with wp and windoes eocsystem wasn’t done to get results imediately, but to make sure in the long run they will have a chance.how will this work up, i don’t know. the lumia 920 is the first worthy device to drive the platform and bring nokia success, the 610 type of devices aparently is doing very well. we’ll see in the next year if the strategy was good or not
Wrong. Nokia can do hardware which other manufacturers, including Microsoft, cannot, at least not easily and quickly. On the other hand, Microsoft can do a ton of things with WP which Nokia can’t even imagine.
And Microsoft has a long history of preserving private APIs and other benefits for themselves on their OSes, for some of such discrete self-advantages they’ve been charged hefty sums by various courts worldwide. That didn’t help their long list of previous ‘strategic partners’, tho, as no matter of the fines Microsoft’s just held the upper hand and they couldn’t compete with the grand daddy who milked them as long as he could.
soooo was i right about everything…. I guess so….the ones that sound the craziest are always the ones who are right
hehhehe well not in all accounts
but more right than most Elop apologists 
Oh. You mean like that time where Siri said that the Lumia was the best smartphone and you said it was a conspiracy between Apple and Microsoft to get back at Google? Yeah. You are WAY ahead of the curve. Get over yourself. Half of what is being discussed is still only rumor.
“we can do things with windows phone that Microsoft can’t”
YES +1 go bankrupt for example.
Is this all you’re ever going to do here? Moan, moan, moan, moan?
Of course it is the only thing. And it (from him and others) will only get worse as Nokia goes through the challenging Q3 results and the waiting game to see how WP8 Lumia unfolds continues.
There was a very simple reason for me to step out of the debate until Q4 results – and that is it. Nothing good will come out of the debate in between. Now, I didn’t quite make it that way.
But I will keep on trying to keep a distance.
Those who really want to see how it plays out, have patience to get over these bumps. They may lead to better or worse as the “fog clears”, but in any case the bumps before that clear will be there. The FUD will go up as it has the past weeks.
Reality, of course, may be something completely different in a multitude of directions after this challenging period. We’ll see when the Q4 results roll in January, how the fog is beginning to clear. That will be the truly interesting test.
This Q3/November wait stuff, before then, is noise. It will be loud, but in reality it will tell us nothing of significance. That won’t stop certain people from trying to make it more significant than it really is, though.
i don’t expect stellar q4 results either as the new devices won’t be available everywhere at first and won’t benefit for a full quarter of sales. q2 2013 on the other hand will be the ultimate answer to see how nokia is doing. we can’t find excuses for those sales anymore.
here is hoping that lumia sales just stagnated in q3 2012 and not declined, and with q4 they start growing at a level higher than q1-q2 2012.
and please janne, keep posting. a well written and thought areticle is always welcomed in this see of ,,elop is a trojan horse, ms wants to buy nokia,ms want to bankrupt nokia,nokia failed” bullshit
I appreciate the comment.
I still think Q4 results will be indicative enough, although WP8 release delay until maybe mid-November will mean my 10M demand is probably too much. But barring any major regional delays into Q1, I think Q4 will still be quite indicative of a presence or lack of healthy Lumia growth trajectory.
So, I’m keeping my eyes on the Q4 results and promise to return a verdict after that. They WILL tell us something useful. Q3 results, not so much.
ACtually, I’d say Q3 will be very important, as it should tell us something about the direction Nokias low-end is heading with the 610. Also, it will be interesting to see how mobile phones( touch Ashas ), L&C and NSN have done.
Yes, I agree Q3 will tell us about Nokia’s low-end Lumia, Asha, L&C and NSN. Those are important numbers in themselves. But I was discussing the Lumia trend.
I don’t think Q3 will – barring some major surprise or disruption – tell us anything of value about the viability of the Lumia strategy. It will be too messy for that.
Having said that, if they sold 10M Lumia 610s on Q3, I will recant and repent.
Of course they didn’t.
So how big is your Q4 estimation for Lumia sales? 6.7 Milion?
How many would be good and how many would it be a disaster??
Honest question we been having this debate for some time, and I agree with you that lowering the bar for Q4 is a decent expectation as Microsoft kinda blown it for Nokia.
Still its still very much in time for the holiday season…soo.
BTW my expectation for Lumia in Q3 are better than I anticipated and am punting it on 3-3,5 Million, mostly because of the cheaper Lumias.
BTW Janne I resent that coming from you, you should know me better. And I think you do. I’m with you on the Q4 will be the final test… For now I’m just enjoying the ride and the debate, and I will admit the occasional cheep shot at WP and the Elop strategy, but c’mon that one was funny, right? be honest.
what can I say, I have memory, I still remember how all of this was “the only solution”, how we were “completely wrong” on our forecasting, how L800 was going to replace “symbian sales” how “Elop is genius”.
Plus I don’t think I moan all that much and sometimes have fun conversations with many of you guys, for example have lots of respect for Janne and we managed to agree on lots of things.
In fact me and many others here represent what nokia did to itself, turned away from a very good portion of its most avid fans.
The conversations/debate are great. The bits where there’s just needless moaning, or flippant, antagonistic comments, not so.
Yeah sorry for those, I try to not be personal about it, and c’mon that was a funny one because I used the original statement and agreed with it, even the conclusion is funny because its correct.
I will admit it was bit cheep, and pondered if I should use it, in the end I thought it was worth it
On a side remark Jay you could take similar stands on the real trolls that come here to fire the most absurd and tasteless personal insults, on the 2 camps BTW.
I do in fact warn folks of any ‘camp’ to lessen antagonistic comments/personal attacks.
If someone thinks he can do more with WP than M$ can, he must be dumbest person on earth.
+1
hearing what elop says makes me wish i had more nok stocks.
I need to to thank you for this excellent read!!
I definitely enjoyed every little bit of it. I have you bookmarked to look at new stuff you post…
Nice post. I was checking continuously this blog and I’m impressed! Extremely helpful info specially the last part
I care for such information much. I was seeking this particular information for a long time. Thank you and good luck.