Stephen Elop interviewed at CNET (and CNET asks if you can tell Nokia Lumia from HTC’s absurd KIRF?)
The blogosphere is getting some time with Stephen Elop and it’s CNET’s turn.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57524708-85/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-well-spend-to-break-through-q-a/
What caught my eye is their question to their readers on whether you could tell the phones apart if the logos weren’t there?
Well, to me, they’re obviously lumia designs. Not one thing, such as colour, but the combined combination of curved glass, polycarbonate unibody and bright vivid colours. It’s just a shame that HTC were so arrogant as to call these designs something unique that they’ve made when clearly, they’ve just looked at Lumia and said “it’s easier if we just copy these”. It’s true, isn’t it, HTCrap? Oh well, as long as people recognise the design as Lumia and search for Lumia and not their wannabe KIRF.
When asked whether Nokia would pursue legal action against HTC, Stephen Elop says:
We don’t comment on specific legal things like that. Always we make sure that our trademarks, our intellectual property, and designs are protected, so we do that routinely. But I think also when people see the quality of design, the fit and finish, and so forth, copying is one thing. Doing it correctly is something very different. We’re very proud of what we’ve done with these devices.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57524708-85/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-well-spend-to-break-through-q-a/
CNET asks whether there is any truth to the rumours about not carrying on with the dividend in order for Nokia to keep a healthy cash balance – this is asked on two occasions:
The way that works at Nokia is that in the early part of each calendar year the board of directors reviews it, makes a series of recommendations, and then in the April-to-May time frame when the shareholders meet, they decide when dividend is paid. So any speculation or commentary on dividend is just that at this point, because that sequence doesn’t begin until the early part of next year….
…
The board will look at the financial conditions of the company at the time, expected cash requirements in the time ahead, expectations of shareholders. They’ll put all of those things together. Any possibility is an option for them. People making or generating stories now, however, are doing that based on no information, ’cause that only happens at the beginning of the year.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57524708-85/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-well-spend-to-break-through-q-a/
Source: cnet
Cheers M for the tip
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elop, you are stupid if you dont sue htc for that design, it is very obvious htc copy your desigm and make it better.
Actually it doesn’t look nearly as good as the LUMIA.
Ummm, what do you mean by “making it better”?
+1
Everything they did wrong with the 920, HTC did right.
So HTC did nothing right?
If htc had removed their logo on the front, the 8x would have been perfect. What does nokia have to fix on 920? Move wp buttons down to the edge, no screws at the bottom, no glossy finishes, no nokia logo on the front, move headphone jack to the left. Details, details, details… Apple is the only company who doesn’t ruin their designs by printing their logo or name on the front of the device. When is everyone else going to learn?
“lightning” connector bitches!!! dafuq?! and the jack is at the bottom, purle tint issue on camera, easily scratchable back panel,out of the box dented metal border,light leakage on top of white ip5..since 1st iphone there is no “apple” on front.only at the back – the bitten rotten apple logo.
>then so many complaints on nokia, then go work for nokia if you think you’re better than them.its a tradition for nokia putting their name at the front of the phone.and proud of showing it
Puhlusss woahn! +1
Apple is the only one, that has a product strong enough, to do that. Carriers want the iphone, bad, because it sells very,very well.. so therefore they play on Apples terms.
All the other OEMs (yes, nokia is an OEM now) have to play on the carrier’s terms, since they are the ones that are looking for more sales..
No, you idiot. They did everything right. Just as bad as an iTard if you think the Lumia 920 is perfect.
The HTC only has 4.3″ screen in a body that is way too big–even slightley wider than the 920. That is a big design fail.
Yes, the HTC design is pretty bad in that sense, smaller screen in pretty much the same dimensions as the 920, + not enough bezel on the bottom ( accidental presses ), and too much of it on the top.
Although that velvet-like unibody seems nice.
Symmetrical screen alignment is more important than shaving off as much as possible from the dimensions. The 920 should have been taller.
N9 excels in design. I don’t think anybody can match it for now.. it has very strong fundamentals, almost perfect.
apart from the not so great screen and clearly under powered (not that one notices that much) cpu it was an amazing device merging the UI/UX with the industrial design like no device so far.
Swipe UI and full screen butonless face made it fantastic, well Rim BB10 thingy seams similar (bit more clunky IMO), and we will have to see what is jolla interpretation on the swipe UI
Agree, N9 size is just right.
I don’t know why I missed that wireless charging dongle before, looks pretty sweet. It’s shown plugged into a Lumia 900, I wonder if it will work with most phones having a microUSB charging port. Does anyone know more about this?
That is likely a dongle made by Finnish company PowerKiss. I have actually tried it on many Nokia devices and it works great.
http://www.powerkiss.fi/
Not sure if PowerKiss is Qi compatible out of box, or if that is a special version of their dongle.
PowerKiss is pretty visible in Finland, having made deals with Finnish furniture manufacturers and integrated it into tables etc.
Thanks for the link Janne. The dongle looks great, but the charging base – ouch!
Hopefully the Ring will be compatible with the Fatboy and Nokia’s own wireless base.
BTW: The Fatboy is just a slip-on cover the Nokia wireless charger, so there is no special Fatboy charger – just that one charger inside. It can even be pulled out and swapped. (I have seen the Fatboy charger up close and personal.)
Good question if PowerKiss ring is compatible. Looking at this article it would seem a good bet that it is compatible? And vice-versa, Nokia Lumias could be charged where ever there are PowerKiss Heart charging tables, like in many lounges, cafeterias etc in Finland… Qi is the unifying standard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Power_Consortium
http://asset1.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/10/04/Lumia920_WirelessCharging_Dongle_610x320.png
I was about to comment about this …
Love this… hope it’s not HTC compatible
Here’s how I would make that “dongle” I would make it with about a 3 inch “arm” that was flexible. It looks kind of odd having the phone at an awkward angle, sitting on the dock…so why not have it so you can bend the coils around the back of the device.
Here’s a crappy mockup…not sure if img tag will work here…
(if that didn’t work…here’s a link)
http://imgur.com/xgRgd
I think they will not sue HTC, perhaps they are using it to presure MS and HTC in backrooms, but outright lawsuit and sales bans would be direct attack on MS, that would mean immediate suicide for Nokia. And IMHO Elop isn’t capable of going against MS interests anyway.
+1
Alternatively, they won’t sue because it’s not conductive to the WP ecosystem, and instead will work something out behind closed doors.
But wait, let’s throw in “direct attack”, “immediate suicide”, and your trademark “Elop sucks”.
So tell me Dave when has the “best CEO of the Year” ever stopped throwing “direct attacks” or carry out “immediate sucide” of Nokia products that compete with Ms products.
I still stand correct and no one has proven me wrong when I say that “All Nokia products that compete with MS products will be killed or strangled, and all Nokia products that do not compete with MS products will be allowed to move forward.”
“best CEO of the year” is you making up false history to make a point. I could say “Yeah you all used to say NOKIA would be bankrupt in march 2011 and it didn’t happen!!!” except that is also false history.
Or is it just sarcasm and you just mean to say “Elop” ?
“I still stand correct and no one has proven me wrong when I say that blah blah”
How can anyone disprove what is in the future? It hasn’t happened yet. I don’t find the secret-apis-from-dos-6.0 or behaviour from 10-15 years ago argument very convincing.
Also, what’s with this obsession of wanting people to “prove” you anything? Nobody owes anyone anything.
Sory but many many of my friends lost their jobs out of this brilliant plan, some of them had to move to another country to work for Nokia and was promised that the strategy was sound and that they could trust Nokia, few months after they lost their jobs as Nokia plan was bleeding money and they needed so save cash.
It is perfectly normal that this people ask for results, better demand them, their life’s were twisted and used as paper bags out of Elops strategy, and for what?
I don’t think Elop is a bad guy or that he even makes this personal cuts light minded, but he his IMO utterly incompetent for the job, and that incompetence as cost thousands of peoples job’s.
I think this people have every right to be outraged. And say, “I was fired because the guy in charge is incompetent”.
Nokia’s troubles did not start with Elop, but long long before him.
I’m sorry about your friends, it sucks to be laid off. Nokia had the bridge program and very good terms though, there are also a lot worse places to be laid off from.
I don’t know where you think the money would have come from to keep them all employed. Nokia did not suddenly on Feb 2011 start to lose money, they screwed themselves long before.
You should direct your anger at the previous management. If they had removed all the stupid redundant departments competing amongst themselves, and the cushy Symbian executives and gotten Maemo developed at full speed after the N900 (Maemo is more than 10 years old!) things could have looked different.
Right now RIM is about to experience what “ecosystem” means. Yes I think WP8, and W8 will do great. Yes I say that as a shareholder who has everything to lose, or to gain. Don’t reverse the causality, I’m well aware I am not going to save WP by shouting on a blog, so if I felt it was the wrong choice, I’d rail for change instead.
Ultimately your friends were fired because of the direction Nokia took 5 years ago when it failed to respond to the iPhone, or to capitalize on its strengths.
They made 1 billion euros profit Q4 2011. Q1 2012 was a disaster and the disaster has continued ever since. In my book they were surviving path before this TERRORIST attack.
You have to be either blind or religious fanatic not to see this.
Nokia has lost so much money ever since that they could have keep those people employed and not doing absolutely anything yet nokia would be better shape than it is now.
The Q4 profit was due to marketshare growth of 26% compounded on market share growth of 31% in Q3.
There is no way an event in the middle of Q1 is going to flip from 1 billion positive to negative all by itself, even if sales had stopped 100% on february 12th.
Ever since 2009, every single day, for every hundred customers buying a phone, FEWER customers bought Nokia.
You have to be a pedophile not to see this.
no that’s not true Nokia was losing market share because it was growing at a smaller pace than the market, but still growing. after the elop announcement it plunged… this as been debated here for way to long it not even worth discussing it again.
So stick to facts you guys say that nokia market share was already declining.. wile we say that number of users was on the rise as were profits, booth statements are true.
P.S. Do you think you have to accuse a guy of being a “pedophile” to make your point? please keep it educated.
I’m happy you got my point about the time honored debating technique of implying your opponent is a “blind” “religious zealot” because you have so little faith in your actual argument.
In Q3 and Q4 the market grew by 31 and 26%.
In Q1 it grew by ZERO %. If it had grown AGAIN by 30%, unit sales would have been 30% higher. If the market had grown 10000%, then the “number of users as were the profits” would have been FANTASTICALLY AWESOME.
Except it didn’t. Do you blame Elop for the market not growing that quarter?
Mixing absolute and relative numbers is a favourite trick, but that doesn’t make it any more true. The true measure of sales, “how many out of every 10 customers buy Nokia”, the rate which had been in decline since 2009, if not earlier, was not affected much by Feb 2011. People did not stop buying Nokia in Feb 2011, they stopped buying it before. Yes, add 30% new people in a quarter, and it doesn’t look so bad. It’s still wrong.
@Dave as usual and as countless times before http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/.a/6a00e0097e337c8833016768af078f970b-800wi
losing market share? yes, having more sales yes, as well…
and everything goes terribly wrong skydiving to be honest
Yes Ahonen likes to use the absolute numbers for obvious reasons. Even Staska called him out on it.
If the market had grown by 30% in Q1, unit sales would be up by 30%, and Elop would have looked just fine. Do you think that’s under his control?
Counter point: http://dominiescommunicate.wordpress.com/
specifically:
http://dominiescommunicate.wordpress.com/category/elop-effect/
you can “sugar coat it as much as you want to” but reality is nokia as been plunging into an abyss after the announcement, and even Elop admitted the mistake, its so obvious that its pointless to get to fight over it.
Very few people here agree with the memo and all of the bad things it brought with it.
And all in all it just proves the miserable incompetence as CEO that Elop is Nokia was not doing great and was losing market share that the reason they got a new CEO to fix that… result even you admit that Nokia wont be able to get back to the market share it had before Elop, but refuse to admit that the man is incompetent as it gets.
Look, here’s an analogy:
You’re doing clinical trials for a new drug. Every quarter you update the drug.
Every quarter, the success rate of the drug drops. First it helps 40% of people. Then it helps 35%. And so on.
Every quarter, you add more people to the trial.
At the end of the trial, you have the worst functioning drug with the lowest success rate, BUT with the highest absolute number of happy patients.
I guess Tomi Ahonen would be happy to take the last revision of the drug. Personally, I’d want to go to the drug at the point BEFORE it started going south.
“result even you admit that Nokia wont be able to get back to the market share it had before Elop”
Yes, because it’s a very different story today. No single company is going to have, or should have! those kinds of market shares in a market that big. Can they go back to 30M devices a quarter? Yeah they better well damn should! But that translates to a much smaller market share than it used to.
“but refuse to admit that the man is incompetent as it gets.”
He’s not perfect, but I agree with what he does. Maybe not always with HOW he does it, but he does not micromanagecontrol every single aspect of the company, not everything stupid Nokia does is his fault.
“not everything stupid Nokia does is his fault.”
But most were.. the memo, the stabbing the n9 launch with the revealing of the L800, the failed carrier relationships. the jump into wp7.x series knowing it was a dead end wile having to outsource production to Compal for the L800.
About the numbers again, by any mesure you take and i can go through all of them we can say that elop as managed to do worse than the previous CEO…
Number of users, worse,
market share losing percentage, worse as well.
solvability of the company, worse
stock market percentage devaluation, incredibly bad.
There really is no number that makes Elop look good exept maybe the asha numbers some weeks from now, but he fired Mary that was in charge of that.
I am not a pedophile as far as i know..
What I used to like about Nokia is the “Connecting people” -idea. It is about being global and being equal around the world. To make people’s life easier. Of course I am Finnish and I used to be proud of this company so my perspective is not objective.
I am also a fan of idea of “open source” which might be in reality little bit naive since people need the income.
The mistake from OPK’s strategy was to move too strongly to open source idea and I think that hurt MS and this is the absolute revenge. Although the execution of OPK’s strategy was left lot to desire it was much better strategy than this “it-does-not-make-sense-what-so-ever” -strategy.
However, MS is playing really hard game and they will die sooner than you might ever imagine if they continue like this.
Anyhow, it would be really nice to know. What is your excuse why do you like Nokia or Microsoft? Why do you believe in the MS partnership?
“I am also a fan of idea of “open source” which might be in reality little bit naive since people need the income.”
I have been working on open source for the last 15 years and i still get paid, open source does not mean free beer.
And I’m not a blind religious fanatic. Good, we’ve established that.
I like Nokia since I had a 6110, since I worked on Maemo (not in Nokia) many many years ago, and waited for them to come up with a real Linux phone. Instead they kept making cute little (but too expensive for me) tablets with wifi-only.
I like the company, the people (I live in Finland), and the way it conducts business. They’re not copycats, they’re not assholes, put a lot of effort in supporting initiatives such as recycling materials, nokia life services, etc, and they experiment(ed) with nice designs.
The problem with OPK’s approach was not using open-source, no matter if his motives at the time were pure or to hurt MS, but all about execution, and setting up Nokia to fight itself instead of competitors. Famous examples are how the N-series people could not use any of the app code from the X-series and so on. And of course the doomed-from-the-start Ovi ecosystem. Then the MeeGo merger, and the internal struggles to keep Symbian on top.
I don’t really like Microsoft, or I haven’t. I’ve not used MS on the desktop since Win 98, and use a macbook otherwise. But these days it’s not the same microsoft, and google/apple are getting away with a lot bullshit where microsoft is always somehow blamed for what they did in 2001. None of those three are the same companies anymore, and at least Microsoft is not dependent on whoring out my data for their income.
Nokia has sucked with software. Their Symbian armies were enormous, and what did we get? S60v5 and S^3. WP is actually a good OS that is pleasant to use. Microsoft development tools and support is much better than anyone else’s. The Lumia’s are beautiful hardware and go well with WP.
I do believe, now more than 2 years ago, in the famous “ecosystem”. An Android is basically useless without the Google services. Nokia can not offer such an enormous software effort by itself. It can manage its own OS for low end devices, where people do not expect the kind of integration they expect with smartphones. I think that’s what will ultimately also get RIM.
In other words focus on core competencies. Nokia has been around for what, 140 years? They’ve always adapted to new circumstances, and the new circumstances no longer call for spending billions on Symbian development, or reinventing the wheel.
Companies are not children. This is not some elaborate revenge on a CEO who’s not even in Nokia anymore. You don’t play with billions of dollars like that.
Well, I hope
In any case, I think the best mobile OS is WP, and the best manufacturer is Nokia. So that’s why.
ok dave I follow your thinking.
I sure can imagine what kind internal competition they had and the boat was not going anywhere for long time.
I just think that they were in right track for some 1-1,5 years before they change their direction 360 degrees again. Still it was nowhere near perfect but the direction was right.
I do not have much problem with WP and Nokia. The problem that I see is the strategy and the change execution. Those are in my opinion total failures.
Elop is trying too hard to make WP successful and it does not come naturally. Personally I don’t see him thinking solely Nokia’s interest.
Also I do not like closed ecosystems. There would be room for one open ecosystem that is not based in US. The whole ecosystem thing to me sounds like blocking markets.
Nokia could keep the WP line still but they need to support some other more open platform. Now they are turning back big majority of the market just by focusing on the closed ecosystem war.
The war that is not their war in the first place.
No some of my friends were hired even after the big change, Nokia plan is going wrong very wrong, Elop management as been failing on every aspect, except maybe the asha line.
Yes it will be very funny to see the RIM and NOKIA future as they went the exact opposite directions, so far things are looking better for RIM (managed to rise user numbers) than for NOKIA (that collapsed to a fraction of what it had). Time will soon tell.
Yeah Dave for not completing my sentence “Best CEO of the Year”. It should read “Best CEO of the Year for helping WP”
You could also google, better yet Bing up “Worst CEO of the Year”.
And yes you comments are popping up everywhere, twisting points and protecting Elop. We here want to protect Nokia not Elop.
Well, I agree with you and you are saying the same thing. They wont do that primarily because it would harm WP ecosystem.
And that’s the problem. Nokia doesn’t own the WP ecosystem and if someone buys cheaper HTC instead of Lumia, it is direct loss to Nokia. But still, Elop is putting WP, MS and the ecosystem first, Nokia’s interests are distant second.
If someone buys cheaper WP, they still buy WP.
At this point they’re not fighting for a small slice of a tiny pie, nobody would be even interested in having 100% of this pie at the moment, it’s too small. It needs to go grow, hence it needs to sell WP. Grow the pie, and the slices grow with them. This is about marketing, exposure, and compelling devices. WP as an OS is certainly up to the job (I’m not talking people who comment on this blog, I’m talking Jessica Alba)
The smartphone market is so large now that of course Nokia will never achieve the kinds of marketshare *percentages* it used to enjoy anymore, but their tipping point of where they can be comfortable and profitable improving their R&D and devices is not as far away as people seem to think.
That and people underestimate Microsoft and Windows 8. I’ve heard all of these arguments before Windows XP, while I was enjoying being able to play Tetris *during* the Linux installation and just waiting for Linux to make some significant impact. It never did. Embedded, sure! Servers, why not! PCs/laptops/netbooks/tablets? Tried and tried and not happening.
Not this time either.
Did you just say “tablets”? if not mistaken linux is by several order of magnitude larger on tablets than windows is..
Microsoft is king in desktop, the fastly eroding market of the desktop might I had. Everything else ??? not so much…
Granted also big on the Xbox, That is not that profitable.
Find it funny that you separate (PCs/laptops/netbooks) as if they were substantially different, they are not they are the same product, they are desktops.
Yes I said tablets. Linux on tablets sucks donkey balls, with the exception of the highly specialized kindle, and the obvious exception of specialized devices like TomTom navigators, the TiVo, cheap-ass wireless routers, etc.
Android tablets are going to be wiped off the map by Windows 8.
The reason they’re “by several order of magnitude larger on tablets” is because the W8 tablets are not out yet, and W7 was the deskop on a tablet. They still completely suck in comparison with the iPad.
Xbox is profitable last I heard.
Fast eroding market of the desktop is also exaggerated media nonsense. Less build your own, yeah probably. The ipad still needs a mac/pc to be useful. It’s actually W8 tablets which will be the full devices by themselves, in tablet form.
Geez can you even separate your own email account from your family member’s, if you use an ipad? It doesn’t even do multiple users. Do I have to share my bookmarks with my family?
“Post PC world” is talking, at most, about form factors.
Today is still not the day to bet against Microsoft.
“Android tablets are going to be wiped off the map by Windows 8″
Just like WP did in phones right?
I personally believe Windows 8 will massively fail on tablet world, and wont be all that great on traditional desktop as well…
UI/UX wise they use very distinct languages, that are hardly compatible IMO, but time will show how inadequate WIN8 is or is not in both scenarios, I personaly hate it on the desktop and moved back to Win7.
There is another problem for tablet growth for the win8 area in tablets, price, so far they have been placing them slightly above the ipad that in my opinion is that blocked segment of the market.
the segment that as seen competition success as been the cheep variety like the kindle fire or the Google one, this markets Microsoft can’t compete with the OEM model.
The only area were I do believe it makes sense is the flipable ultraboks, that is much more pricy than the iPad but redefines a space of its own. Unfortunately I only saw one of that kind.
# note I’m not a fan of the tablet concept and I have 3 of them that i mostly use as in-flight entertainment centers and that’s all. So take my opinions with a grain of salt I do…
“Fast eroding market of the desktop is also exaggerated media nonsense” no not really and I’m with on that or was to be precise, cheek intels shipments going down substantially.
“Just like WP did in phones right?”
No, just like Windows has always has.
“I personally believe Windows 8 will massively fail on tablet world, and wont be all that great on traditional desktop as well…”
There are over 100 distinct devices coming out with W8 in Q4. Every OEM is betting on it as hard as MS (they have no choice).
You can believe whatever you want, like people have said about every other Windows release, it’s still going to happen.
I’d put big money on that. Moreso than on WP.
“I personaly hate it on the desktop and moved back to Win7.”
Windows 8 is 100% identical to Windows 7, except
1) it’s faster, more stable, less resource intensive, much faster, uses less memory, jas more features, and is in every measurable way improved, and
2) the start menu is now metro
And that start menu bothered you so much you went back to Windwows 7? What are you doing with the start menu anyway. Use Win+KEY for everything.
That’s not what a normal consumer does, that’s just a tantrum where you’re cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Like the people staying put on XP (even though in 2000 they thought XP was the devil).
Stay on Windows 7. See if hundreds of millions of systems sold with windows 8 care.
“2) the start menu is now metro” and that is by far my biggest problem with it…. i have a massive screen were i multitask alot I DONT NEED a huge screen to chose another app i don’t want to loose focus of what I’m doing to check a calendar or doing a multiplication..
My use case is not that uncommon this massively the biggest complain online about it. And i do get that they want me to look at the tiles, i just don’t care this is my work machine I want to get work done.
All previous changes in windows UI were minor ever since the win95 this is a major paradigm shift many apps are shiped now in only metro style that take my entire screen I don’t want or need that remember its window’s not window…
I understand what they are going for just think that they will fail and it will backlash on them. hey its my opinion I have been wrong on many occasions but don’t think I’m wrong this time, i almost bet the first security update to windows 8 will let you get rid of the metro start. and give you back traditional desktop apps for all of the metro look alike ones.
Its not that the metro ones are bad, they are ok in a tablet but not on a desktop….
People online complain about everything. You can pick any product, any topic, and you’ll find very vocal people who are dead set against it. It’s not a good barometer.
In the mean time, 100s of millions of W8 devices will be sold in the next few years.
You don’t HAVE to use the metro version of an app. If I recall correctly, the first time you open eg an image Windows asks you nicely if you would like to open those in the future on the desktop or in metro. It sounds very petty that it’s too much trouble without the complicated do-everything-possible start menu. You have shortcuts to your used apps, and there’s WIN-R and its 2 dozen friends.
If push comes to shove and it’s really really really the end of the world, they’ll stick back a startmenu and the ability to open metro apps in a window. The latter I would certainly encourage for pure non-touch desktops.
But there’s certainly not going to be some revolution of anything other than W8. Form factors change to where W8 runs well. Ultrabooks will have touch screens, and on their size metro looks fine. I agree it looks out of place on 24″+ screens, though it’s hardly the end of the world.
Considering most people I know have a desktop with a million icons on it, and don’t know a single keyboard shortcut, I’m sure metro is a lot better fit.
I used the windows 8 for some weeks (about 3 months ago) and gave up on it, I did not get any option to chose metro of desktop version of an app… maybe that as changed..
You should go and watch usability studies done on elderly people, you change the place were one icon is and you have a ginormous problem.
Funny enough very similar environment is office space.
Lol watching elderly use computers, no thanks
And yes, most office people are not much better. That’s my point with the desktop with a million icons.
They can stay on W7 then, or WXP, and use IE 7.
All new hardware is going to run, and be specifically designed for, W8.
Yes there will be opponents and people against it and people/companies who do not upgrade, but that’s not going to stop W8, and it’s not going to start off some Android revolution.
Also, 3 months ago is not the same as the current version, especially the metro apps were (and some are) very spartan and useless then.
on the hardware aspect you should see what Jesse as to say about it, I tend to agree, OEM’s will fail to deliver the quality level windows 8 demands, for the experience part.. that will also be a pain. Any way time will tell.
I suspect Microsoft is getting ready for a huge shift in their traditional Business model. A case of Apple envy.
Smartphone market is big, but that’s irrelevant for Nokia, Elop confined them to WP, which is just very small part of that market. And because Nokia’s effective market is of such small size, it’s of utmost importance to capture as much of it as possible. The smartphone unit is bleeding hundredths of millions, every phone they don’t sell is loss they can’t afford.
Also it’s delusional to think there is explosive growth of WP around the corner, only one who is showing strong growing is Android. And it’s dangerous to think Nokia can let WP competition to go ahead, as if they can easily catch up with them later.
So I guess you’re in the “Nokia should have gone Android” camp?
Because Meego does not offer anything that would create explosive growth either. WP is still growing. No it hasn’t grown faster than every other OS ever, wouldn’t expecting that to be more delusional?
Also, nobody is saying growth is excellent. Of course it should be faster. But I haven’t heard the argument why Symbian, Meego, or Android would sell better (for Nokia). The first 2 wouldn’t even have made it to American carriers.
I fail to see how anything about Android or MeeGo changes the fact that congratulating competition for eating into your already catastrophic sales and cheering for the ensuing possible growth of ecosystem that isn’t yours, is absurdly idiotic.
With Android he was at least afraid Nokia couldn’t compete with other Android manufacturers. With WP7 it almost seems his biggest fear is that Nokia will run over others in MS camp as they wouldn’t be able to compete with Lumias.
We can’t blame HTC for the colored shells. Anyone can put any color on their phones, there’s no law against that, and you cannot patent a color. What HTC can be blamed for is the design of display. The curved display has been a Nokia-only feature since the N9. HTC went so far as to even copy the rounded corners of the display. If you put side by side the 8X display and the Lumia 800 you can’t tell the apart(except for size). That is where Nokia should pursue legal action. HTC can argue that there was no time to copy the body of the 8X from Nokia’s Lumia 820, but they did have plenty of time to copy the screen design from the N9/Lumia 800. But I guess they did this blatant copying of the display because MS may advise Nokia not to pursue legal action on a fellow Windows Phone 8 manufacturer. I do hope that Nokia takes action, because this is not about rectangles with rounded corners, this is about detailed cloning a Nokia patented element such as the curved glass display.
Agree with you totally. In pictures 8X’s glass looks just like Lumia 800′s.
Curved display was not Nokia only, so no, they can’t be blamed for that either.
I think I may be the only one that really likes what HTC has done with the design of the 8x.
I fell in love with the Nokia N9 design before, I’m feeling that desire again for the 8x design. Yes they look similar but I think that the 8x gets more evolution from Htc’s one x design than the lumia’s. I think both phones are gorgeous though.
So I read the comments on CNet…
Can I ask anyone from the US about all that “tied to one carrier = fail” comment I read? I only read that you get charged if someone else calls you, but I’m not too sure about all these contract/carrier things. Verizon would be CDMA without sim card, yes?
There’s 4 main telco in my country, all GSM, I could just buy phone sim free, and put in any telco’s sim card. Or I could get a phone from any telco, and put another telco’s sim card inside since it’s illegal to lock any devices here.
So, clearly, Nokia is betting that retailer/operator sales with exclusive deals (and thus more promotion and involvement from the operator, better placement and incentives on the floor level to sell their product) will shift more Windows Phones than less-committed, non-exlusive operators/retailers would even when considering non-exclusive is spread over a broader range of players. In other words, Nokia feels whatever extra people like HTC can sell non-exclusive “broad brush” way is insignificant compared to what Nokia will be able to sell through their exclusive deals.
I don’t like it. I see the logic, but I also feel it is awfully risky. Not to mention sucks for the consumers. We’ll see if their gamble pays off.
There’s that Q4 results card again.
We’ll have to include HTC’s Windows Phone performance in that comparison, to see whether or not Nokia made a good move.
Janne I think the man is completely clueless, this sort of model only works if your product is absurdly revolutionary, (the kind that makes people change carriers) or if you are aiming at maximizing profits over a proven hardware base using scale economies (cheep phones custom made for operators, that you can easily spin off as 300 different models).
Now the L9200 is not one or the other, soo???
I understand that he realized that he messed up things with the carriers and that it needs fixing, but its not like this…only thing he will achieve is to create more antagonist carriers (the ones out of the deal) that will block other Nokia phones into the back of the shelf. And let the carriers within the deal left with a not so wide spread device in the consumers mindset, resulting in the need for extra publicity needed and lower carrier profits,
It worked for the iPhone because if basically promoted itself. And because the iPhone was the “iPhone” back them.
I’m fairly certain it is not just Elop behind this model.
But yes, the Nokia management is certainly making a very controversial move here. We shall see how it plays out.
Like I said, I don’t like it. I’d rather abolish all carrier exclusives globally.
On the other hand, I haven’t yet seen how it will play out for Nokia. Let’s see come Q4.
Yes, the bottom line it is difficult to speculate on this and there are for sure many things that go into these decisions. Marketing commitments and subsidies are likely major ones. Building the business and relationship long term is another. What, for example, there is Pureview 3 model in the pipeline and Verizon will get a period of exclusivity for that one?
You know, he does answer this question explicitly in another interview. It’s better to be somewhere and pushed than to be everywhere and not pushed. If the L900 would have been just another device on Verizon and AT&T, would it be as known?
Before the tinfoil america-takes-over-the-world derping armchair generals come shouting “of course they would sold have a kazillion models”, Elop does not decide this singlehandendly, they have a bunch of people all over the place considering these options.
Also Nokia will be on other carriers soon, even if the launch is exclusive.
Yes carriers should be dumb pipes, yes the American system is the stupidest in the world. Hate the game, not the players.
Obviously that is their logic. I already said so in my message a couple of replies above.
The big question mark is: Will it work out that way. I guess HTC is a good comparison which will tell us. Let’s do a comparison come Q4 results from both.
I don’t like it. I’m not saying it will fail, but it does seem quite the gamble once again.
You’re of course also assuming all carriers were lining up begging for the 920, and Nokia said “neener neener only AT&T gets it”. Maybe VZ didn’t want to bother in the first place.
Then we’re assuming this is the final story, it’s still a long 4 weeks to launch, we don’t know everything yet.
HTC already has the carrier relationships with their Androids, so it’s easier to shove in a WP device, if only to try it out for a while.
There’s good arguments to be made for both sides. On this site (you excluded) it’s basically “Elop did it? Then it was the wrong choice!” to everything. I swear if the 920 was on all carriers, people here would be shouting it’s stupid because now the carriers have on incentive to push it, carriers will focus only on their exclusive devices because otherwise they’re just marketing for their competitors, etc etc.
Of course that too is possible.
As for Verizon, I expect them to come up with something else Nokia sooner rather than later. Hopefully at least an 822C or something before the holidays. PureView goodness may have to wait until after holidays.
Having said that, I still think there is more to this equation than simply carriers saying no thanks.
Nokia seems to have a very deliberate strategy of setting up carrier exclusives this time around (even lamenting the fact that they did less of that a year ago).
They clearly think it is a good idea for Nokia. We’ll see.
People keep harping about the L900 sales, by having completely unrealistic exceptions that are guaranteed to make the whole thing look like a disaster, so they can come back and play “I told you so”.
AT&T only sold 1M non-iPhones in Q1, is it then realistic to expect a new device of a relatively unknown brand (there), that does not really compete on any specs, with an OS due for an upgrade soon, to sell 1M in a quarter ? To completely entirely displace Android ? To take a big chunk of iPhone sales?
The L900 has been in the top 3 of AT&T sales for a long time, that’s a huge accomplishment! It has even outsold some of the big name Android devices for some periods.
No it does not translate into millions of sales, because it’s only one device competing against established players, but it gets the name out there and the phone in people’s hands.
Would the L900 have reached the top 3 without any exclusivity push? Just a blue phone in the back with old specs among a sea of Androids and the iPhone with an OS nobody knows and a sales person that says “meh, how about this galaxy”?
The L920 is a much easier sale than the 900.
I mean I agree that intuitively I would also say put it everywhere, but unlike some I don’t think I know everything better than everyone else, nor that this is some conspiracy to kill Nokia so that MS can buy it. Give Nokia some credit.
Putting it into all channels (and thus, possibly, e.g. losing the opportunity to have a Verizon exclusive deal slightly later with another strong, focused marketing push) arguably a but diluted and against the cheaper HTCs with all of them could also be viewed a gamble…
“Elop is forced into exclusive deals, because Lumias are unattractive for consumers.”
Yes, and the HTCs in fact ARE highly attractive to consumers. The carriers actually love Lumia lookalikes running WP, they just don’t like the actual Lumia running WP, because, let me guess, Elop?
Or alternatively, you are so biased in your Elop hate that the next Lumia could cure cancer and you’d be here complaining Elop hates people with AIDS.
No, consumers don’t like WP phones regardless of the OEM, just look at the sales. But as opposed to Nokia, HTC seems to be getting sweeter deal from MS, they have alternative in Android and they are still bringing profits.
Simply put they don’t mind their WP phones will be stuck somewhere deep in the store and no retail staff will be offering them, they are not in rush and they can let MS to try to screw carriers over.
“But as opposed to Nokia, HTC seems to be getting sweeter deal from MS”
Which is what? Ballmer on stage? Saying it’s a signature device?
“Simply put they don’t mind their WP phones will be stuck somewhere deep in the store and no retail staff will be offering them”
Right, so you are actually arguing that carrier exclusivity is a much better way to go.
Um yes, Ballmer on stage showing unity with Nokia and all that, or the marketing potential of MS standing behind Nokia phones, that was supposed to be big deal. Now we are left with Elop talking about secret powers he has over MS, which HTC or anyone else doesn’t have.
Well, for Nokia, with WP smartphones, at this point in time, yes, I don’t think Elop is depressing Lumia sales intentionally, just for the fun of it. It’s probably better to let 920 sit along iPhone and latest Galaxy, and hope at least someone notices it, than let it rot at the back shelves where it will be completely ignored.
It’s just nature of WP, figuring out how to kill your already negligible sales in the least potent way.
Elop talked about hardware features Nokia can offer that MS and others do not have, such as pureview. Nokia also got MS to add Tango, and LTE support to WP7, which MS had planned only for WP8.
In terms of hardware, the 920 is a more attractive package than both the iPhone or Galaxy. Not everyone will agree, but it’s a close call. I’m not sure what more you want. Android on it? Meego? You think the static grid of icons of Meego are going to impress a customer more than the live tiles? Especially since the live tiles will be familiar because Microsoft will be putting W8 everywhere?
Depends a lot on how the public perceives this “live tiles” or as i like to call them boring monochromatic widgets, I would not bet, that Win8 will be an overwhelming success, I suspect it will not, but Time will tell…
So far most comments online about Win8 are rather negative, way more negative than they were about windows vista for example. I have to agree with them think its pure nonsense. And Microsoft is taking a huge gamble with this.
“So far most comments online about Win8 are rather negative, way more negative than they were about windows vista for example”
1) Prove it
2) If you can take out the comments from Linux and OS X users who don’t use Windows at all.
So… no?
They tried their non-exclusive method before with Symbian, and got entirely squeezed out of the US market.
Do you know that Microsoft has it’s own smartphone with Windows8 which is in tests and will be lauched to markets by Microsft? How good news this is for Nokia?? What Elop can tell about this??
Why should Nokia do anything about it, assuming they have sufficient contractual protections in place to stop Microsoft from cutting Nokia out of important WP stuff or updates… Which I’m sure they do have.
I’m having a hard time understanding why a Microsoft phone suddenly would be a major problem for Nokia, who is clearly building a Lumia brand that stands for a lot more than just the basic Windows Phone. Lumia is about a lot more than just Windows Phone.
What could Microsoft do to differentiate in a way that would threaten Nokia? Hasn’t everyone and their aunt been saying Microsoft and Windows are not brands that consumers want to buy either?
I’m fairly certain Microsoft will build a “Surface phone” at some point. But that is not the thing that will make or break Nokia’s Lumia strategy. It will be completely different factors that will make or break Lumia.
What is great is that Nokia is building their own brands and sub-brands up. Not the Windows Phone brand, like HTC is doing to desperately gain same favor in the WP ecosystem. Nokia is doing their own thing. Microsoft can do their own thing if they wish.
“I’m having a hard time understanding why a Microsoft phone suddenly would be a major problem for Nokia”
Mindset, one thing nokia managed to do is to come out as the true WP phone, like Samsung did with android. If Microsoft comes with their phone base products they will become the standard WP brand so the mindset will shift from the WP brand to just another WP brand, much like for example the sony xperias are seen (love their hardware) but the mindset is on samsung.
Plus it will divide a really Small pond.
You probably want to see what Jesse as to say about this, think Microsoft is in a business model paradigm shift…They want to be the new apple..
Not necessarily. The base standard for Android is not Nexus, it is Samsung with their TouchWiz. The thing is, why would a standard Windows Phone setup be more desireable than a Lumia which adds a lot to that basic base experience?
Again, assuming Nokia has sufficient contractual obligations in place to protect them from any Microsoft shutouts, which I’m sure they do. Microsoft simply popping out a Surface-looking base WP8 experience is no Lumia.
Nokia is building a Lumia brand, which, if succesful, will in itself be a highly desireable brand with the Nokia ecosystem bolted on top of WP. Windows Phone will be just one element of that.
It’s just like with Galaxy S, you buy a Galaxy S, not any Android phone.
I’m not saying competition isn’t threat to Nokia, and that includes Microsoft. I am simply saying, a simple act of releasing a Windows Phone from Microsoft will not suddenly make it the golden standard for Windows Phone – any more then Google buying Motorola or making Nexuses with people made those the golden standard for Android.
The fear is the Microsoft is becoming not a Google but more of an apple, starting to build a retail chain, and a range of coherent products, Google mostly produces “set the range products” that are no real mass market product competition to Samsung, and I’m sure Samsung does not like Google doing that main reason Samsung plays with 3/4 mobile OS’s, Nokia position is much more fragile and is for the most part under Microsoft platform desires.
I have litle doubt that Elops message the other day was a message to Microsoft on that respect.
Not really. The Surface Phone would only be bought direct from MS if it is available. It would be for people who really want an unlocked, un carrier branded phone, which is a fairly small segment of the population and not a market Nokia is going after at the moment at all.
Yes Satorino, we know, it was its own very special article on this very special blog just 2-3 days ago.
But thank you for injecting this in every OTHER story as well. After all, we can never get enough of rehashing the same points over and over.
I have worked with carriers for a while, and I can tell you this with absolute certainty: a carrier can make or break a phone, depending if they want to move it or not. Remember the N97? It sold millions because it was offered free with contract in the UK.
Carriers can even throttle down your bandwith if you are using an unlocked handset, AND then tell you it is the fault of the device and push you to buy one of theirs!
Sadly, the smart mobile consumer is still a minority worldwide.
They can also make or break a company. The poor N97 quality did incredibly bad damage to Nokia, both from a consumer perspective (a lot of people got N97s and were unhappy with them) and from a carrier perspective (all the returns weren’t good for the carrier’s bottom line).
Carriers move the mobile world. People think that good products sell, no.. its whatever the carrier decides its good, that is what sells.
I find it strange that a lot of US customers make their buying decisions based on contract prices. I’ve always thought they are in the first world. What I see in the 3rd world, people just try and source the best deal possible and not getting hung up with carrier commitments.
I know of some top executives who prefer prepaid subscription over contracts. Spending is more easily controlled, they use carrier unlocked phones which means easy to switch sim cards as the situation demands, better privacy in terms of who they call and sms since no bill indicating such usage is passed around for accounting and audit to see.
First off I want to say superb blog! I had a quick question in which
I’d like to ask if you do not mind. I was curious to find out how you center yourself and clear your head before writing. I’ve had
a tough time clearing my mind in getting my ideas out.
I do enjoy writing however it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes
are generally lost simply just trying to figure out how to begin.
Any recommendations or hints? Cheers!