Nokia Pulse Discontinued For Symbian and N9; Desktop Client to be Discontinued as Well

| February 1, 2013 | 156 Replies

wp_ss_20130201_0002Nokia Pulse is my all time favorite beta app that ever came through the Beta apps site. Unfortunately support for Symbian as well as Meego has been discontinued; meaning there will be no future updates or compatibility fixes. Users who have already downloaded the app will continue to use it, but the new layout (which uses single posts, rather than stories with comments) will not be available to users.

The desktop client will no longer be accessible via browser after March 5th, you can still use the web client on your mobile browser (provided its HTML5 capable).

With Windows Phone as our primary smartphone platform, naturally we are also focusing our primary development efforts for Nokia Pulse on it. That’s also the reason why we haven’t updated the Nokia Pulse clients for both Symbian and the N9 recently. Moving forward, we will now officially conclude the Nokia Pulse beta trial for Symbian and the N9 and will no longer offer the download option of Pulse for these platforms on Betalabs.

We truly appreciate the role the Symbian/N9 trial members have played in providing feedback on Nokia Pulse on these platforms, enabling us to learn from it and improve the application.

While we will conclude the public beta trial for Nokia Pulse on Symbian/N9, users that have already downloaded the beta for Symbian and N9 can still continue using the service. Please note, however, that these versions may be affected by upcoming backend changes that can impact the app performance and functionality.

As Nokia Pulse beta further evolves as a mobile messaging experience, we have also decided to discontinue the desktop web support for Pulse on March 5th, 2013.  After that date, you will no longer be able to access your Pulse conversations from the desktop web. Nokia Pulse will continue to be available on Nokia Lumia phones and all other Windows Phones via the Windows Phone Store. It will also be available on other smartphones such as iPhone and Android devices via your HTML5 enabled mobile browser at http://pulse.nokia.com.

We are very grateful for your feedback, suggestions and insights. Thank you for using and contributing to Nokia Pulse.

- The Nokia Pulse team

Source

 

 

Category: Applications, Lumia, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • qromodynmc

    Nokia always had world most stupid strategy ever..

    • cloud

      1+++++++++++++

      • Pierre Lavoux

        This is not a strategy. This is demonstration where they have customers – let me not use vulgar words here, figure it out yourself what I have in mind.

  • zxz

    please update nokia im, internet radio and sleeping screen

  • Mike

    Really stupid decision!

  • Shaun

    Go to http://pulse.nokia.com on a Nokia N9 with the standard browser

    “Your device is not currently supported”

    Now go to http://pulse.nokia.com/html5/ on a Nokia N9 with the standard browser. That’s where iOS and Android phones are redirected to.

    Works perfectly.

    Really Nokia. Why not just put up a sign telling all your old customers to F**K OFF if you’ve got such contempt for them that you’d rather support your competitors OS than your own, even when it works fine.

    • kues

      They have obviously given up on trying to migrate the old Symbian/N9 customers to WP… :-(

      • j

        why should they try further? after using the n9 i would never ever use something like windows phone!

      • rustyknight17

        I believe u r right , many have already gone to Android , or they r waiting to see what BB10 and Jolla Mobile do …

    • rustyknight17

      That`s insult on top of injury , if u alienate ur core users , not smart …

      • migo

        They alienated everyone a long time ago. The only thing they can really try to do is get new users.

  • Ruben

    I say f**k’em… never needed that app for no reason. Hey Nokia, why don’t you just close the store for symbian and meego as well? Do i have to buy a Lumia XXX now? Is my N9 no good? Am i a stupid customer?

    • Nrde

      Yes, Nokia should close Nokia store from Symbian and MeeGo as who the hell cares about old customers. At least Nokia doesn’t. Good luck all those 4 million WP users start using pulse to make it relevant. That would give them 1% share of the IM space – suckers.

      • Noki

        well they already started to close the store, in china no payed apps for the n9.

      • masudiano ronaldo

        hello. i want a nokia lumia 920 please help me

    • twinklestar1792

      +10000 likes

  • sina88

    More and more surprised how dumb Nokia is. Google/WhatsApp and many other companies easily provide apps for multiple platforms. Nokia can’t even provide apps for all their own ones! How lame is that?

    How do they want make Pulse successful if only a few WP users (which are really hard to find) use it?

    Same with their Map services. MeeGo & Symbian (?) didn’t get an app update for Maps or Drive for a while. Instead Nokia tries to release an iPhone app which was one of the biggest fails iPhone users ever got to see (at least that’s what most iPhone users told me after I convinced them to use Nokia maps).

    @Elop: Change at least the name of your company! I want to remember “Nokia” as something good.

    • Jiipee

      +1

    • j

      +2

    • GordonH

      +1

    • belle and jolla beat lumia 920

      great comment

    • Tetlee

      +1

      Couldn’t have summed things up better myself.

      This continued strategy from Nokia makes me LESS likely to ever adopt Nokia/WP, it’s leaving an increasingly bitter taste in my mouth. So I bought the Nokia flagship 808(which I love BTW), but Nokia didn’t really want me to spend my hard earned on that, what Elop really wanted was for me to be rail-roaded into WP.

      It’s like selling guns to Indians and then refusing to supply them with ammo.

      • Jiipee

        And instead of ammo only offering cheap alcohol and tobacco instead…

    • Yoyo

      This Elop guy is just giving me more reasons to abondon Nokia… Really frustrating to see that the support for Android and IOS is better than MeeGo.
      I am writing this from an White 64gb N9 for which I payed decent money. It seems that this was the last time I spended that kind of money on a Nokia brand. It makes me sad that Nokia is pushing away the most loyal fans any brand has(even more loyal fans than iFans!)…

      • Gordon Ramsay lopettaa juttujaan hauskasti

        I guess Nokia fans must be incredibly stubborn just because they tolerated all the crap OPK and Ollila shipped.

        It’s sad that those people are accusing Elop for something he didn’t do.

        Yes?

        • Deep Space Bar

          um in two years from 29%-3%dude wash thre crap from your eyes,elop fucked Nokia up and if you can’t see that then something its really wrong with you…..support till 2016 seems to be pure bullshit !!!!!!!Fuck Elop And Nokia For Abandoning Their Long TeUsers

          • migo

            That would have happened no matter what. Elop’s the reason it’s not at 1% or less right now.

        • rustyknight17

          Except that Elop , and the board , took a bas situation and made it MUCH worse !

          • Deep Space Bar

            EXACLTY

      • james

        i just order a asha 311 to go with my symbian and meego.now that will be my last nokia.when they start makeing smartphones again i may return to them.

    • Gordon Ramsay lopettaa juttujaan hauskasti

      That’s just what Nokia has been doing all the time. Elop didn’t make that to happen.

      Anyone remember how Nokia dropped support for N900? I guess you are blaming Elop for that?

      Or maybe you blame Elop for not releasing Symbian3 for 5800?

      Nokia was never really supporting old products.

      Yes?

      • Tetlee

        The flagship 808 was only released last year, wouldn’t exactly class it as an old product.

        • migo

          It wasn’t a real flagship, more of a curiosity to show the tech press while they got the 920 ready.

          • dr_zorg

            Funny, I haven’t heard Nokia mention that. Care to throw a few links to your “source”?

            • migo

              It was running Symbian. It’s not a flagship, never could be. My source is reality. Symbian is a joke OS.

      • Janne

        True, ditching support for the old devices is nothing new at Nokia. N900 was particularly brutally treated under OPK. Under Elop Nokia actually improved the support of old devices in many instances. Previously Nokia never released major updates to old devices (e.g. N97), under Elop we got Anna and Belle for e.g. N8 and even some fairly major S60v5 updates.

        • dr_zorg

          I see, so because it’s “nothing new”, it’s alright, is that it? :)

          • Janne

            No, it was never alright and still isn’t. What makes you say that? I don’t like Nokia ditching Pulse on Symbian/N9 at all. It just isn’t something only recently introduced to Nokia as was suggested above, in fact recently Nokia got better at supporting old devices in certain cases – namely in the case of Symbian Belle. Nokia just has always been like this. I hope with Asha and WP8 forwards this changes for the better.

        • rustyknight17

          errmmm , u call this better support ?

  • Tiago Silva

    So much for support until 2014 for Harmattan and 2016 for Symbian…

  • JGrove303

    HTML5 that will work on everything versus maintaining multiple builds of a social app?

    Makes sense, really. So long as the features are or will become available on the HTML5 verson.

  • https://twitter.com/moritzjt MoritzJT

    Thanks for blatantly c*a*p*n* on all valuable community feedback when deciding on how to continue with Pulse.

    Either shut it down completely or get back to what it was and fix the errors that you received as complaints.

    Pulse acting like it’s WhatsApp now? Not working. Bye if that’s what you want to be. You don’t stand a chance as a mobile messaging service only!

    You only had a community EQUALS (no discussion here) users because of the slightly different way one could use Pulse. That’ll be gone soon…

    Now about the rejection:

    Followed your link here => http://pulse.nokia.com/about#desktop_web_discontinued

    “Nokia Pulse will continue to be available on Nokia Lumia phones and all other Windows Phones via the Windows Phone Store. It will also be available on other smartphones such as iPhone and Android devices via your HTML5 enabled mobile browser at pulse.nokia.com.”

    You know you produced Symbian and Harmattan Phones before… I don’t think you’ll end their access. So why don’t mention them!? Is that some weird new order from above? Anything that could be associated with the past and Symbian / Harmattan MUST be erased from public association with Nokia?

    Man i’m really mad right now.

    Fix this bug ASAP or prepare to have lost more than 80% of your Pulse users (the only ones who could’ve brought you some more anyway)

    Cheers and don’t take me tooo seriously. Really I ain’t.

  • rustyknight17

    This is part of a pattern of stupid mistakes by Elop and Nokia . He`s been doing this for 2 years ! What astounds me is why he`s still CEO . If Elop had been running any other company , he`d be gone by now ! Proably long ago , in fact !
    Nor has Nokia , and Elop , been any too successful at converting their core Symbian and Meego base to WP . That should be a warning to them ! What with their many broken promises lately , they`re going to have to improve WP significantly to convince me to change to it ! I might buy an Asha as a BU phone but that`ll be it , unless said improvement occurs ! Even then , as the saying goes , I`ll keep one eye on them and feel for my hatchet !

    • nn

      The problem is WP cult has completely taken over Nokia. They firmly believe WP will be big success, if they don’t think it already is. Then these moves are just prudent saving and anyway who cares about N9 or Symbian when we have WP, which is the best?

      Hopes Elop will be leaving soon are just wishful thinking. Even if he is fired, he will be replaced by Siilasmaa or some other clown from the same pack, who will continue to do the same things.

      • Janne

        I actually agree with everything nn says here. I don’t disagree with Nokia as much as nn does (although I’m not in agreement about all either), but I do think nn sums Nokia’s view right. nn understands Nokia. :)

        • rustyknight17

          as the Meego Story on taskamuro.com pointed out , Elop firmly believes that trends originating from the USA r the ones that will prevail , regardlless of whether they actually do or not . Nokia used outside consultants along with their own people and i strongly suspect this skewed the assessment , thus setting Nokia on the WP path …

          • Deep Space Bar

            here’s a pointer for the future…DON’T FOLLOW WhAT THE US DOES…CAUSE it’s already been done or what they have done they are pushing on others….DON’T FALL FOR THAT CRAP….everything they do seems to create MASS PROBLEMS for everyone around them…even if they are not even apart of the situation….’thinking you are the hero’ and ‘being a hero’ are TWO different things …the US ALWAYS thinks they are the heroes….WELL BAD NEWS THEY AREN’T in ANY WAY shape or form Deemed Heroes or the FAD starters ..it’s all BS cause they control the market and industry

            • rustyknight17

              Must agree DSB !
              Taking a look at the OSes I`ve used , of the USA ones , WM , WP and Android , WM is no more because MS bailed on it ( I suspect they should have stuck with it ! ) and Android is seriously fragmented and as Steve Litchfield of AAS pointed out , 70% of all Android phones r hopeless . Never used iOS but they use substandard tech … Nor has the IPhone been a roaring success outside the First World . Nor was I impressed by WP7 , lacking too many features I need ..
              The other 2 I`ve used r Blackberry ( 4.6 , Curve 8900 ) and Symbian ( 3 , Anna and Belle ) . It`s interesting that , desoite being American , these two r my favourites ! Just saying ..

      • Gordon Ramsay lopettaa juttujaan hauskasti

        Yes.

        Nokia once praised Symbian and believed it would rule the world. Then they failed to choose Android because they were too arrogant to do that.

        But Elop didn’t destroy Nokia. OPK and Ollila did.

        Elop is just cleaning the mess. Yes, he may not be that good in cleaning it but he didn’t make the mess.

        Yes?

        • rustyknight17

          Nit quite . Nokia was in trouble before Elop but Elop did make a bad situation muchhhhh worse !

        • kues

          No! Elop was hired to clean up- but he failed: Chosing wrong new management people multiple times. Changing strategies multiple times. Executing poorly…
          If a firefighter doesn’t put out or a least controls the fire, he is to blame- regardless of who set the house on fire…

          • viipottaja

            How did he change strategy multiple times?

            perhaps you are confusing strategy and tactics?

            • j

              meego for the next disruption….

              • viipottaja

                Well, the strategy, IIRC, was to continue working on future disruptions – Meego was just one possibility for that.

                • Jiipee

                  1. Meego as part of future disruptions
                  2. Next billion to keep selling S40 (insteadof affordable tablets and true optimized design driven platform
                  3. Sell 150 million more symbian phones

                  You can ofcourse say that the market changed faster and unexpectedly or they did not deliver. First would mean that the assumptions were flawed from the beginning, henve strategywas wrong. The second happened this time under Elop’s watch without OPK.

          • rustyknight17

            Like I said , Elop made a bad situation much worse

      • migo

        People thought that Meego would be a great success. This isn’t a WP thing as much as a Nokia thing. Nokia has fans who believe in the company no matter what.

        • Shane

          You say that like it was given even a fraction of a chance at being a success, funny that.

  • Me

    Nokia is removing everything that has to do with meego.
    They even removed the flasher.
    http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
    So i guess that i need to backup everything that i need.
    And N9 is officially supported to 2015.
    I guess it’s time to backup things needed for Symbian as well.

  • twig

    I’m enjoying my 920 a lot. I enjoy multiple platforms so I enjoy my N9 also. I’m not finding anything perfect yet and am excited to see if anything developed between Nokia and Jolla. A few more weeks.

    • JGrove303

      I’m with you on this. I simply can not imagine that Nokia would not partner up with Jolla for an Open OS project. Surely it’ll cost less than all of MeeGo being produced in house as well.

      And I too am greatly enjoying WP8 on my Lumia 920

      • Gordon Ramsay lopettaa juttujaan hauskasti

        I can’t believe Nokia failed to compete against iPhone but they did. Apple shipped a superior product and even the Nokia fans lived in a fantasy claiming that iPhone (or Android) was not a superior product.

        I guess being a fan means that you ignore the real world.

        Yes?

        • rustyknight17

          define superior … Aplle has long taken substandard tech and passed it off as innovative . Remember the original IPhone /?

  • dss

    Meanwhile.. Lumia sales in the US continue to impress

    http://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/the-npd-group-iphone-still-leading-us-consumer-sales/

    and by that I mean they are not even on the charts..

    • shallow ocean shoal

      Gee, who woulda thunk that by Nokia neglecting the US for years, they wouldn’t have an established, strong, fan base there?

      At least out of the deal they got some Microsoft fans.

      You reap what you sow.

  • manohar

    1 like = 1 hit for lumia 620
    Like this page…………….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    http://www.facebook.com/nokialumia620wp8

  • Pingback: Betalabs cesse le développement de Nokia Pulse pour Symbian, MeeGo et la version bureau « Nokians – La parole aux fans de Nokia en France et partout ailleurs !

  • junais

    please be with android…

  • s3m44

    Glad that I am no longer using a Nokia after 2012, that’s not the brand I known when using my 5800 and c7.

    Symbian, Meego, Wp7 are just left in cold

  • Dr.Smart

    This move can be understood as Nokia management essentially telling that the customer base transition from Symbian/Meego to WP-phones failed, will never succeed in the future and won’t bother any more.

    In Chinese, this amounts to Elop saying, “If you won’t buy Lumias, fu*k you and fu*ck off!”

    • Dr.Smart

      Forgot to mention that Elop doesn’t seem to understand that a company must adapt to the market demand, not vice versa.

      If people still caring about Nokia but not WP-phones still number-a-bunch, why say “fu*k off” to them?

      That a grand company, such as Nokia used to be, would be run by a clown, whose strategy is based on nothing but wishful thinking, is a real comedy.

      • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

        Elop didn’t change that. It was the company policy at Nokia not to adapt to market changes but to make everyone else to adapt to Nokia.

        Maybe you have double standards on this matter? Blaming Elop for something that was the Nokia way of doing everything for years before Elop.

        Nokia started to collapse before Elop started to work for them. By blaming Elop you are blaming someone not responsible for the collapse.

        Maybe we should blame fans like you for letting this happening and not saying that the company was failing when it was managed by OPK and Ollila? Maybe it was people like you who made Nokia to fail? Not Elop.

        Yes?

        • rustyknight17

          Like I said Elop yook a bad situation and made it muchhhhhh worse . And Nokia management WAS responding to the market , but Elop torpedoed S3 , as well as Anna and Belle , before they could gain a foothold in the market !

    • Janne

      This move can be understood as Nokia management essentially telling that the customer base transition from Symbian/Meego to WP-phones failed, will never succeed in the future and won’t bother any more.

      Obviously. They announced it after the failures that were Q1 and Q2/2012 results. This is not a surprise to anyone. I think it is widely agreed Nokia and Elop cocked up the transition from previous systems and are now abandoning the remnants to focus on the new. I expect store maintenance and mandatory bug fixes mostly going forward for legacy systems.

      Yep, none of us wanted it this way but this is how it rolls. Yes, it sucks and they failed. Unfortunately for those who hate the new OS, and fortunately for those who like it, Lumia will soldier on because no matter how mediocre its results, it hasn’t failed either.

      • Dr.Smart

        Makes me wonder how you define failure.

        A strategy is a failure if it squarely unfolds to meet the worst case scenario.

        And the worst case scenario for Elop’s strategy is the total failure of existing customer transition or luring new customers that can match the defection to some degree.

        • Janne

          I have no problems defining failure when I see it. I have listed several from Nokia, both under Elop and under OPK, here.

          It just that, no matter how much the haters hate it, Lumia didn’t fail. That much is obvious to me.

          Unfortunately, it didn’t set the world on fire either.

          • Dr.Smart

            Ah, so something is a failure if you say so! How objective!

            • Janne

              Failure is always a subjective determination unless an objective standard is agreed upon (and even that is probably subjective). Ours are, and will remain, our opinions.

              I don’t think Lumia failed. I do think the first Lumia generation failed to reach its goals, but overall I’d say saying Lumia is a failure – period – is not the reality. Lumia is doing mediocrely and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Failure would lead to death or near-death and after the Q4 numbers I don’t think either Lumia or Nokia is headed to that.

              We agree on many of the failures at Nokia. There were a lot under OPK and Elop, which results in Nokia now being a medium-sized player. What we disagree on is the future: I do think Nokia can do okay on the market with Lumia and I do especially think they have great, great products on the market with Lumia. Better than in years. As a user, that is what keeps me sticking to it. Great products. I’d personally hate to see some new Nokia transition, nor do I think it would improve Nokia’s position now in the least, so as long as I see Lumia doing okay and with great products, I’ll root for sustaining those great products instead.

              Q4 results gave me the confidence I needed to call that Lumia is sustainable. Unfortunately it also gave me the information to say its market position is headed to mediocrity only for the foreseeable future. But hey, great niche products at least.

              Now I’m getting dragged into endless strategy analysis again. Better go enjoy my Lumia! :)

              • Dr.Smart

                Long words. But what you are saying is, “Lumia is not a failure for me.” Fair enough.

                But please don’t say that the measure of failure is totally subjective. That makes the notion of “winning strategy” self-contradictory and vacant.

                • Janne

                  Well, of course, measure of failure is not completely subjective. But I don’t think we have reached that line for Lumia either.

                  I acknowledge you disagree.

              • j

                without asha nokia is 10th largest smartphonemaker worldwide. do you call that a medium sized player?

                • Janne

                  Nokia as the world’s second largest mobile phone manufacturer is probably more than a medium-sized player, but I was more referring to their size and relevance as a company which has come down from huge to medium.

              • nn

                Ah, so failure or success here is matter of subjective determination. At least that explains why you are running around, claiming WP is success, without ever explaining why, just that Q4 results told you so. Or, god forbid, make comparison with 2010Q4 and explain why Symbian was such failure as opposed to WP success now (fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony).

                The sad thing is that it’s not only anonymous commenters on the internets, but the top ranks of Nokia apparently operate on the same level of reasoning. Which is why Nokia is doomed no matter what, they are incapable of rationally assessing environment around them and change their behaviour accordingly.

                • Janne

                  You don’t have to take my word for it – and I know you won’t – but I don’t come to these conclusions lightly.

                  I have very solid thinking and armchair analysis behind my opinions that Symbian needed to go (just NOT like this!) and Q4 shows us Lumia is a mediocre “success” that won’t be going away anytime soon.

                  I have explained especially the former ad infinitum. Because of that I have no desire to try and explain my thinking any further, hence my participation here is nowadays much less than it used to be. It is futile in a medium such as this.

                  • nn

                    You have explained only the former ad infinitum. So far I didn’t see equivalent explanation about why WP is success. And we both know why – with your arguments about what made Symbian failure, you can’t make WP not-total-failure without maniacally laughing in the face of logic and coherent reasoning.

                    So instead it’s now matter of personal opinion whenever black is black or white, and every opinion is equally valid – black can be described as white, pink or grey and only time will tell.

                    • Janne

                      Negative, you STILL don’t understand why I thought Symbian had to go if you think Lumia’s situation is anywhere near comparable. You fail to understand the fundamental weaknesses I see in Symbian.

                      Symbian was on trajectory to zero for various reasons. I don’t think WP is. The problem with WP is, though, it is not on a trajectory to become number 1 either.

                    • nn

                      Well, feel free to point me to one of your posts where you did the comparison between Symbian up to 2010Q4 and WP up to 2012Q4. For example I remember you linking many times that exnokian post about Nokia market share decline proving Symbian was failure, but I didn’t see examination of Nokia’s market share from 2011Q4 onwards and how that makes WP success.

                      Unless, of course, the analysis you are talking about is actually the claim you often repeat here, that, essentially, by your personal opinion WP is cool while Symbian wasn’t.

                  • rustyknight17

                    Actually , Symbain was apparently intended to merge with Meego , though I think it could have held out for a few more years /.

                    • Shane

                      No it wasn’t, technically impossible, 1st it was to gradually migrate to price segments just below Harmattan/MeeGo-proper, & then eventually (maybe, depending how things evolved) be phased-out completely.

            • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

              Nokia failed before Elop started to work for the company.

              It’s very probable that Elop never had the tools for putting out the fire and you keep blaming him for not being able to stop the fire? How about blaming OPK and Ollila for destroying everything beyond repair?

              How about justice?

              No. Just blame Elop. Someone who didn’t really destroy Nokia. He failed to stop the collapse but then again he didn’t have the tools for it.

              Yes?

              • rustyknight17

                Really ? The CEO , with the full support of the Nokia Board of Directors , doesn`t have the tools to fix things ? Rrrrriiiigggghhhhhttttt….Nokia was in trouble , pre – Elop , but Elop made the situation muchhhhh worse with his stupidity !@ FYI , there was a solution , e.g. Belle , but Elop deliberately sank both it and Meego to eliminate dangerous rivals . Common sense would tell u that if ur company is in fdire straits , u don`t kill the moneymakers !

          • j

            so one question: how bad should nokia sales be, that you would say, that lumia did fail?

            i mean 3% marketshare is a desaster but according to you it could be even worse….(despite of huge marketing effords)

          • rustyknight17

            Janne , must agree with the others here . Astrategy IMHO is a failure if it doesn`t keep it`s ( the OEMS ) core users or if it doesn`t make the company grow Thus far , WO has done neither , I would , therefore , classify it as a failure . After all , it`s had over 2 years and several iterations to prove itself ! For cryin out loud , WP8 last quarter had no credible challengers and STILL only managed 4.4 M units !

            • Janne

              That is fair, I just don’t agree Lumia or WP has failed. I agree that certain aspects of the new strategy, namely the transition away from Symbian and the first Lumia generation, did fail. I think it is now certain the second generation will do better.

              However, that is a far cry from success. Lumia won’t be a success anytime soon. It just hasn’t failed either. It does mediocrely. Well enough to stay, not well enough to win.

              • Janne

                By the way, like I said I agree Nokia should have done the new strategy differently. I never agreed with February 11th for example.

                It is just that now, here, today I don’t think changing the strategy and would help Nokia at all. I would call for such a change if I thought Lumia was failing and an alternative was better for Nokia, but I don’t see Lumia failing nor do I see a better alternative right now.

                Once Nokia stabilises and if Lumia stays only a mediocre success, perhaps a new product-line (I have used the name Venla for this in the past) based on Android or even Sailfish could be introduced alongside Lumia and Asha.

                • rustyknight17

                  Actually , it was rumours of the upcoming memo and the Nokia /MS alliance that killed Symbian and Meego .I know , I was there in midDecember 2010 , looking to upgrade and the N8 was a top contender so naturally I kept up with Nokia news ! The rumours were so prevalent that they were widely regarded as true , and that included carriers . I strongly suspect that these were deliberately leaked …
                  That said , i agree and u do make good points ! I don`t see WP8 as being successful really , too many dangerous rivals , and I think Androi would be a good short term choice . Sailfish would be a good long term choice !

  • viipottaja

    Nokia tidying up lose ends, not putting resources to dead ends. Nothing more, nothing less, really.

    • Dr.Smart

      Frankly, how much it would cost to maintain the “dead ends”? Bean counting again?

      • Janne

        I guess in the case of Pulse it would have meant maintaining the Symbian app every time changes were made to the Pulse service. If they are planning major new things, I guess this is something to factor in.

        Add to that, they probably have less and less people (be it in-house or at contractors) to do Symbian work anymore, so this probably means Symbian support will be the first thing to go from on-going services like Pulse.

        Standalone apps and probably major things like the Nokia store (that is maintained for Asha anyway) will probably stay longer. And for the sake of Nokia, I certainly hope it will stay longer. Cutting such major services too soon would be bad. Pulse, being beta, was probably just marginally used.

        • Dr.Smart

          Give me a break really! We are not stupid. It doesn’t take too much to maintain an app for crying out loud.

          • Janne

            Have you ever coded for Symbian? ;) You might change your mind…

            However, my point was that if the service was headed for major changes, the app might need rewriting or things like that – which, considering the diminishing returns with Symbian/MeeGo, might not make it as worthwhile as, say, keeping a standalone app in the store with some occasional fixed or something.

            Service apps are different from standalone apps in this regard, that was merely my point.

            • Dr.Smart

              No I have not coded for Symbian. But I hear that one could entirely code for it with Qt if you so choose.

              Now tell me where I can find the Symbian apps you wrote.

              • Janne

                It was a joke. :) My professional Symbian app developments are old and were in the enterprise sphere, you can’t download them. And yes, it is true Qt helped somewhat, although not quite as much as some may think. I kept in touch enough to agree that Qt on Symbian was a little… quirky. Well, everything on Symbian was and is.

                But now we are digressing.

                Anyhow, my point was merely that Pulse itself as a service can change a lot and thus maintaining an app for it, for Symbian, might be a different proposition than maintaining just some standalone app which requires less work. I think if Nokia plans big things for Pulse, which I hope they do of course because services are one major differentiator for them, dragging that Symbian support along might seem wasteful.

                I don’t like it anymore than you do, just discussing why I think they did it.

                • Dr.Smart

                  Yeah what ever.

                  In any case, my point was it’s not the maintenance cost that affected the decision.

                  And you disagree or not?

                  • Janne

                    I get what you are saying, but I don’t know. We don’t have enough info. I think maintenance cost can be significant if you consider the Symbian operation at large and the nature of maintaining service-based apps.

                    The cost-savings may be significant if they are doing this to get rid of many Symbian projects and the need to maintain (in-house or at contractors) Symbian development capability. If they can cut out a lot through many small cuts, then the savings may be significant in totality.

                    • Dr.Smart

                      If you say you don’t know how costly it would be to maintain a single app (not service mind you), then you are lying or ignorant.

                      On the other hand, if you go for many small cuts amounting big saving –> Now you are in favour of bean counting at the cost of abandoning once-loyal-customers whom you should still value.

                      Why do you try to rationalize every move by Nokia even if it is stupid to anyone who isn’t blind?

                    • Janne

                      I don’t try to rationalize every move Nokia makes. I try to understand. I don’t like this particular move, but I also don’t think I have enough information to definitely judge it.

                      I think maintaining a single-app that is tied to an everchanging service can be costly due to the changing nature of the service. I think you are dismissing this point.

                      Also, if keeping that maintenance capability requires keeping of teams (in-house or paying to contractors) suitable for Symbian development that might otherwise not be needed at all, that would certainly add to the cost.

                      Maybe Nokia is trying to get rid of all Symbian development capability and thus cutting all Symbian-related work is necessary to get those costs cut. Or maybe they are planning such big changes to Pulse that bringing those to the Symbian app (and keeping it compatible) would require too much work or capacity. Or maybe it was just a Nokia Labs beta program with limited user exposure and they decided bringing it out of beta was not worth it.

                      Hey, it is possible this is an example of overzealous bean counting resulting in more PR badwill than any real monetary savings. I give you that it certainly is possible and if so, it is surely a bad thing. But I’m not anywhere near sure enough that is the case.

                      Still, I wish this didn’t happen – just like I wish Feb11 didn’t happen. The divide in the Nokia user community is sucking out all the fun of this hobby.

            • incognito

              Service apps are different from standalone apps in this regard, that was merely my point.

              Which is why it’s more stupid to abandon the support for them, than for standalone apps like the Nokia Browser or things like that.

              When you are developing a service and the accompanying apps around it – the most important thing for you is the user base. Without a significant number of users your service will never get off the ground, and this is particularly true for services involving a social element such as the Pulse service.

              Symbian user base is probably tenfold the user base of WP and it is completely ludicrous to abandon it in favor of the latter no matter what your OS strategy internally is. If Nokia actually wanted to gain some track with the Pulse service, they’d develop the Pulse app for: J2ME, Android, iOS, Symbian, Blackberry, Bada, Windows (desktop), MacOS X (desktop) – in that order – and then, if they really want to capture the exotics they’d spend time on developing software frontends on WP and MeeGo.

              WP has so miniscule user base that writing SaaS and the likes for it as a primary target is doomed to failure. Which is one of the main reasons why, despite all the incentives from both Microsoft and Nokia, there are still glaring omissions in the software offer for it. Again, from a service point of view, it’s more sane to abandon WP development than to abandon Symbian development.

              • Janne

                Now, this I don’t disagree with. But without insight into how well Pulse was doing on Symbian (or was projected to do) or what kind of changes were coming to Pulse it is really hard to say whether or not they made the right or wrong tradeoff. But overall your argument of course has merit too (as does mine, it just comes down to where the balance lands in an instance).

            • Viipottaja

              yup, they even pretty directly imply that backend changes are indeed coming.

  • RVM

    Seems that Elop is desperately trying to make Symbian/MeeGo users move to WP. Sadly, most people are not going to move to less capable OS, and most likely will move to Android.

    • Janne

      I doubt this has anything to do with that. More likely they are seeing less and less returns for their Symbian investments and want to cut them out to focus on the new. We all agree a more orderly transition away from the old systems would have been preferable, and that they failed with this one, but now that they have failed I guess cutting the excesses and starting anew is somewhat understandable.

      I still think the biggest mistake Nokia made, Feb11-wise, was the PR impact on its fanbase. Oh how I wish they would have handled all this so, so very differently. Now every bit of negative news regarding the legacy systems opens those old wounds. Yes, this was in my opinion the biggest single mistake under Elop – how the move away from Symbian was announced and executed. And this coming from me, who thinks Symbian needed ditching! It isn’t what was done so much as how and when it was done…

      • Dr.Smart

        It’s not really about Symbian or WPP.

        The biggest mistake was to abandon options and backups, thereby leaving no room for maneuver for the future.
        Single OS plan was the seed of the failure.

        Sentimentally speaking, one might retain some positive feeling if the plan was courageous but foolish. But Elop’s cock-up was both cowardly and foolish, especially considering the fact that Nokia’s expertise was more in Linux then Windows and thereby Nokia had to start from scratch and thereby lost valuable time.

        • Janne

          That is certainly one angle. Personally I feel how the transition was done was more of a failure than the decision to go into one direction, but I know many feel differently.

          Had it been me, I would have announced Windows Phone as the replacement to MeeGo, so that Nokia’s high-end would get WP whereas Symbian would serve the low and mid-end indefinitely (and then silently but gradually move WP downwards and eventually kill Symbian). Make the announcement such that it didn’t feel at all like dismissing Symbian, only dismissing MeeGo.

          (The other alternative, even in that scenario, would have been to replace the major MeeGo path with WP but still commit to MeeGo on a hobbyist project basis – releasing one niche device from time to time. In this scenario MeeGo would have been relegated to a side-project status serving the Linux community.)

          All these would have resulted in WP being the dominant force and Symbian going away, but I would have simply done it vastly differently to protect the existing product on the market. If WP had to come in, the only casualty on Feb11 should have been the one product that was not yet out: MeeGo. Publicly butchering the workhorse (Symbian) of the company like that was a very big gamble, I wrote so here in March 2011, and they failed with it. We may disagree on how much it hurt actual sales (see BB/RIM’s similar fall), but none of us can disagree that it hurt Nokia’s public perception A LOT.

          In fact, I might not have released N9 at all, but that is with the benefit of hindsight. It just ended up causing a lot bad blood regarding the new strategy. Continuing to service the low- and mid-ends with Symbian while pushing the WP product-line gradually more and more… to me, with all the benefit of hindsight now of course, that would have seemed to most prudent course to transition to WP.

          Of course that leaves out the question should they have gone Android or stayed MeeGo, as you know I think either of those might have worked too, but I’d rather not rehash all that…

          • Dr.Smart

            Blackberry’s decline has more to do with the late delivery (maybe now too late) of the new OS and leaving the field vacant for too long. There is nothing similar about RIM’s fall with that of Nokia. Please try not to conflate things.

            Android would have been the right choice given the fact that the inside expertise was more aligned with that of Android rather than MS products.

            • Janne

              It is true that RIM’s schedule became more delayed in the end (it wasn’t supposed to, though). RIM’s fall is overall similar in that they too had a too drawn out legacy offering. BB7 is their Symbian.

              It took longer for them to get the replacement out, but for the most of 2011 their fortunes were quite much alike Nokia’s (who was stuck to Symbian only until late 2011) with the exception of how they decided to stick to their guns and their old strategy vs. Nokia’s decision. BB/RIM got the results out a year+ later, but still I find it an interesting proxy. Can they make their in-house (well, bought) solution work? If they can, maybe Nokia could have too. Although of course BB/RIM has the service advantage Nokia didn’t, but Nokia had the schedule/size advantage to balance things out. It will be interesting to see. I wish BB/RIM all the best.

              Android could have worked.

              • Dr.Smart

                If you think RIM’s fall was an analogous situation to that of Nokia, ignoring the time frame, I’m at a loss of words. Have a good weekend, I’m signing off.

                • Janne

                  RIM’s fall in 2011 was analogous to Nokia’s situation. Maybe 2012 was different, but we already saw what happened in 2011 to both of them – one with Feb11 and one without. RIM’s fall was delayed a little but it did come nevertheless.

                  I’ll gladly give you that in any RIM proxy NOW one must factor in that their new generation came out a year later than Nokia’s. If RIM fails, that must be factored into any analysis before saying “Nokia did the right thing” or anything like that.

                  Proxies are rarely perfect. Still, I find RIM and intriguing one. Can they pull it off themselves? I would be kind of cool if they can.

                • Dr.Smart

                  Just to clarify one bit, I think, RIM’s failure is in execution. Nokia’s failure (post-Elop) is in strategy (Elop does execute in every sense of the word) backing the wrong horse so to say.

                  So if you think these two cases are similar, then I guess a triangle and a circle are simmilar –> hey they are geometric objects!

                  • Janne

                    No, RIM and Nokia chose the OPPOSITE paths. I thought that much was clear. That is why the proxy is so intriguing: I think in 2011 they started from similar places (and had similar falls with their legacy solutions in 2011), but their choices for the future were diametrically opposed. That’s why the proxy is interesting – to see, after a fashion, thourh BB/RIM’s fate, how Nokia would have fared with MeeGo for example.

                    It is not a perfect proxy, I acknowledge that a thousand times. But still, interesting.

                    • thedead1440

                      Nope BB10 is never how Harmattan would fare like. One is closed and one is open. Its comparing apples with oranges.

                  • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

                    I guess you are one of those Symbian believers if you really think Nokia’s strategy was great.

                    It was pretty much crap.

                    Replacing low end Symbian phones with high end MeeGo phones would not have worked. You fail to see that because of your Symbian religion but unfortunately it was not going to happen.

                    There was almost nothing to replace. Very few N8, 808 and E7 sales and that’s it.

                    Nokia failed long before Elop.

                    Yes?

                    • j

                      more n8 sales than lumia sales per quarter, yes?

                    • Viipottaja

                      @j, bit of a different times, no?

                      I mean: yes? :P

                    • Me

                      About Symbian the hardware race made it impossible to keep up with Symbian since the hardware support was it’s biggest downfall.
                      But meego is an totally different story, the linux kernel has the best hardware support of any OS kernels in the world.
                      MeeGo might have made it if given a fare chance, it felt fresh an new to a part that WP felt old and crippled in functionality.
                      I can’t help to think where MeeGo would have been today if it had all the resources from Nokia that WP had, marketing and development.
                      And remember that MeeGo was more functional at the time.

                      @Viipottaja yes it was a different time, the market were much smaller but Nokia did sell more on that way smaller market.

                    • Janne

                      Me:

                      I wonder about MeeGo and hardware support, though. Sure, better than Symbian of course, but still question marks linger. Muropaketti articles say MeeGo didn’t support LTE yet and with it Nokia would not have had LTE devices out when they did (early 2012)… If true, that would have been a glaring omission. I wonder how long LTE would have taken to come to fruition with MeeGo…

                    • rustyknight17

                      No . They were sliding but nothing not reversible . Further , while we don`t have figures for the 808 , AIUI , it did well for several months . And the N8 did quite well , especially for a DOA Phone ; in it`s first year , the N8 , by ITSELF , sold 10 million ! And AIUI , most of the other S3 phones did nearly as well , particularly the C7 and the E7 …

                    • jiipee

                      @Janne

                      “Muropaketti articles say MeeGo didn’t support LTE yet and with it Nokia would not have had LTE devices out when they did (early 2012)”

                      So you only read the original and not the later addition and then the sexond part? They clearly say that N9-01 was already in the works with Qualcomm chipset. One could argue that the hw support would have been a lot better with Meego Fall 2012 than it has been with WP8. The only source that has commented it though is mr Contreras. There were also Meego tablest running on STE Novathor years ago. The big gap that I have in my knowledge is the status of Meego beyond Harmattan. There has been no leaks whatsoever.

                    • Shane

                      Yep, MeeGo proper device weren’t due to come on line till Q3/4 2012, but there was always meant to be at least one more Harmattan device before that in H1 2012.

                    • Janne

                      Jiipee: I did read the second part. To me it contained stuff that was a bit harder to believe, though. I don’t know what merit to place on it. But, for objectivity, sure it is possible LTE on MeeGo was not an issue. Maybe it was, maybe it was not.

          • nn

            Ehm. That’s exactly what Elop did – kill MeeGo and live on Symbian remnants until WP is available in full strength. Remember those 150M phones? He really didn’t expect the switch will result in such cratering, but apparently people aren’t dumb and will not sell/buy devices with no future.

            But I guess it’s better to have to completely invent mistakes, than to deal with the real ones he made.

            • Janne

              nn: No, my plan would never have included a graph showing how Symbian percentages at Nokia turn into WP over time. I would have spoken Symbian up and made it a crucial low/midend product for infinity. That is not how Nokia presented Symbian’s fate on February 11th. I would have only nixed MeeGo and explained how Nokia’s new strategy is based on Series 40 on bottom, Symbian in the middle and WP up top. Ditching Symbian was a good plan, but the steps to do it should have come later and in a different way.

              I know their reasoning of course. To wake up the organization from its Symbian religion by declaring it a dead man walking. I just never agreed with that. The transition should have been handled differently. It was a big gamble and I think the gamble failed.

              • nn

                So the plan would be to give as little specific informations as possible (I guess you would skip the 150M comment too) so later nobody could held you accountable, and then you would outright lie to public and investors that you intend to keep Symbian and work on it indefinitely while you don’t?

                If we skip the obvious non-starters like that this wouldn’t fly with MS or that you could keep the pretence for quarter or two, but the it would explode into your face in big way, what, exactly, would be the point of all this? Surely no expectation of better Symbian sales, because you are of the opinion that the plunge was not caused by Elop’s action, but rather by Symbian unsolvable crappiness and competition from Android, and that it would happen not matter what.

                • Janne

                  I don’t think this debate is going anywhere but one clarification: I do agree Symbian’s uncompetitiveness was its main downfall, as RIM shows. BUT Feb11 hastened things somewhat plus most importantly caused the deep PR disaster that still two years later causes us to have this discussion from separate sides of a deeply divided Nokia user/fan/ex community. Avoiding that PR disaster would be the biggest thing I would have tried to change.

                  I would never propose lies. My version of the strategy would of course have kept options open on Symbian for longer. No lies, just normal confidential business planning.

                  • jiipee

                    So in fact you were more supportive for Symbian than Nokia themselves? They obviously had a plan to replace Symbian with also Qt compatible Meltemi in the low end.

                  • nn

                    Well, if you would really keep developing Symbian, then I fail to see why you would want to kill MeeGo and replace it with WP. You would be paying the price of developing the old strategy essentially in full and still trying to bolt totally incompatible WP on it because…? This looks more like attempt of WP fan to somehow, anyhow extend lifespan of said OS and not like business strategy.

                    And the two points still stand. MS wouldn’t accept that precisely because they knew they need unconditional commitment to the failing WP and not another LG or Samsung. I don’t know into how much sales ‘hastening things’ translates, but if you still maintain Nokia would crash more or less the same way, then keeping the Symbian development doesn’t make much sense, especially if you want to go WP in the end.

                    • Janne

                      nn: Obviously my strategy would not have included full support for Symbian, but scaled back silently. The plan would still have been to diminish the significance of Symbian, but far more softly than they did – until WP is ready to carry on that torch.

                      MeeGo could have worked. I am not commenting on that now, just the way February 11th was executed.

                      As for MS, while possible that MS made demands, I think Nokia was in a position to dictate otherwise. I doubt my announcement strategy would have been impossible to negotiate.

                      But as I said, I understand why they did it: To kill the Symbian religion inside Nokia. I would have addressed that issue differently.

                    • nn

                      I think you said you would tell the truth. Here you want to say to the world you want to use and develop Symbian for indefinite future while silently (wonder how you would do that) scaling it back.

                      AFAIK Symbian codebase was mess, but that was worked on. So the way forward was to keep developing it, killing further development and using just the old code would probably lead to increased costs.

                      So if MeeGo could have work and you have to develop and finish MeeGo (presumably due to deal with Intel), and also you are keeping Symbian, Asha, Meltemi, why then not to keep MeeGo too? What’s the benefit of replacing it with WP? Especially when you know that WP7 itself is dead man walking, to be replaced next year by incompatible WP8?

                      I don’t want to speculate on how your negotiating efforts with MS would go. But at least you are beginning to see the grave mistake is the deal itself and you would need to renegotiate it to take different paths. Once it was signed there wasn’t much choice for Nokia than do what Elop is doing.

                    • Janne

                      nn: I have seen plenty of mistakes all along. It is just your limited perception of what you think I think, instead what I really think, that is misguiding you when discussing with me.

                      Back in March 2011 I posted here how I wish they hadn’t done February 11th and how it was a big gamble. Many times since then I have said they lost that gamble. In Q1/2012 I said they failed with the Symbian transition, Q3/2012 proved the failure of the first Lumia generation and so on.

                      It’s just that we have different beliefs on where things started from (e.g. state of Symbian in 2010), why they changed (e.g. Elop’s/Nokia BOD’s motivations) and where they are headed (e.g. Lumia future)… Because of our different beliefs on these things, it is very hard to discuss the conclusions, because the fundamentals of our discussion are so different. Add to that the way I lack the black/white thinking many others seem to employ, and we have the communications mess that we do.

                      This doesn’t mean I agree with everything that has happened or planned at Nokia. They have had their fair share of mistakes and failures.

    • rustyknight17

      Or Blackberry …

    • rustyknight17

      Or BB10 ..

  • Dark knight

    whatever the reason nokia keep your promise..symbian support till 2016 and meego till 2014..the rest not really interrested..u nokia guys fail me now i will fail nokia buying rimm..meego like..ha

    • Shane

      It was 2015 for Harmattan, but I never believed that for a second when it was said (several times @ low & high levels of management).
      Part of me hoped for maybe till the very start of 2015, say Jan 1st, but at this rate I’d say everything will be completely wrapped-up before we hit the end of 2013.

    • rustyknight17

      Yup , that goes for me too!

  • Shane

    Why they even bothered posting about this in their blog God only knows.
    It’s been dead to them pretty-much since the very 1st clients came out. There was epic threads in the relevant places, & discussions elsewhere providing them with HEAPS of; feedback, diagnostic info, & requests to fix certain outstanding issues.
    It all fell “constantly” on deaf ears, especially the MeeGo client…

  • shallow ocean shoal

    Wait a second

    Does anyone even use Pulse? What are there 5 N9 users of it?

    • Shane

      Why be a tool, the main focus is for WP client & HTML5 client, has been for some time now, where’s your support for it.

      • shallow ocean shoal

        It’s a serious question. How many people actually use Pulse – actively. I tried it once and thought it was interesting. And that was it.

        • http://aligonemobile.blogspot.com/ Aliqudsi

          I use it daily; we have a group of about 50 or so active Nokia fans and bloggers/tech enthusiasts. We use it all the time to share everything from food to gadgets.

  • rustyknight17

    Yes u r right , this is Nokia tacitly admitting that they have failed to convert their core Symbian amd Meego users and their failure to get WP to catch on!
    BUT this also bigger than Pulse . It`s about Nokia not keeping their promises and this includes WP ( 7 ) . I`m kind of leery trusting my hard earned money to a mobile device OEM that says ” Push off ! ”
    I`ll proably get a Asha ( 303 or 311 ) as a backup phone , maybe the 808 and N9 if I can afford them , but it looks like my next device will be either the z10 or the Q 10m , hopefully the Q10 . Perhaps Jolla Mobile , depending on when they bring their products to market . Cheers !

    • Deep Space Bar

      same here Nokia + elop + Microsoft = FAIL

      anything with microsoft = fail
      anything that has to do with being overzealous with NO percentage in a global market and talking shit to others like you have greater notice in the market is a DAMN =FAIL

      AND THAT’s MICROSOFT….and ELOP too nokia down to their shit hole level as well after giving up on their own creations