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Dear Microsoft: Get off your lazy arse and get Instagram on WP (MS, do developers hate you?) #Rant

| February 3, 2013 | 249 Replies

Screen Shot 2013-02-03 at 11.25.20

 

What am I looking at above? It’s a concept Instagram for WP8. What am I looking at below? It’s Instagram. On BB10. And apparently, it’s NOT an Android emulation. It’s rumoured to be native. If that’s the case then there’s some tables flipping this Sunday :p.  (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

No, we aren’t the only ones beginning to fume at Microsoft, the king of “developers, developers, developers” yet no one shows their baby any love.

Screen Shot 2013-02-03 at 11.25.14

 

http://www.windowsphonedaily.com/2013/02/instagram-spotted-on-blackberry-10.html via
http://www.reddit.com/r/windowsphone/comments/17rzs2/instagram_spotted_on_blackberry_10_tables_about/

What’s it got to do with Microsoft? Why blame them and not the app developer? I don’t understand writing apps at all, so forgive me if I’m taking things for granted. Is there difficulty in writing the app or do developers just hate/have-no-hope for the platform? We see folks like the TVCatchup team test a beta and in a few days have it in store…whilst (yes a more complex perhaps) BBC iPlayer doesn’t even have any mention of future existence on WP.

Nokia’s doing a great job pulling in apps for Lumia exclusives  attracting developers to WP? What’s Microsoft doing apart from thumbs, eating donuts and making sure features are MISSING in WP8? Why does Viber have no voice counterpart? Why haven’t we got Spotify on WP8 (it’s on WP7) and Why the damn heck do we still not have Instagram?

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The latter is not so much because I would like to share Sepia Cats with you. It’s because Instagram is an important social platform for others. It’s not like Instagram won’t work in Metro. Look at the DeviantArt pic at the top. What with the new owners being Facebook and Microsoft’s own connections to Facebook, you’d think we’d see a WP8 app a lot sooner. But no. They could surprise us at MWC but I HIGHLY DOUBT IT. This is Microsoft. We’re most likely going to see yet another demo of how you can resize your tile.

Microsoft – do you even care about WP8 anymore? What are you doing? Get off your lazy arse and do some work. NOW.

I’m not even talking about the things that need improving in WP8. What was posted by Ali yesterday is only really touching the surface and as much as I’d love to rip MS/WP team a new one, I’ve got coursework to write up.

I love my Nokia Lumia 920 and I enjoy using WP8. I’d find it very easy to recommend to others (unless of course, they’re an instagram user…:p) It’s just as the competition gets tougher, you have to do something to stay ahead of the game or at the very least, keep up. Nokia does what it can on the hardware side, and even tries to bring things in software. But the one who has to do most of the software stuff, is YOU Microsoft. I know I can’t see what it is you’re doing right now, but I know I’ve seen what it is you’ve done in the past two years. Do you think that’s a significant amount? Is that progress and time scale justified?

It’s not that we don’t appreciate the work of the Windows Phone team, it’s just that you are clearly too slow to do ANYTHING at the rate required today.

Perhaps as well as Intel, YOU, Microsoft, can also hire out some Windows Phone engineers to work on your platform and to work with other developers to make apps work for YOUR platform to attract more consumers and thus more developers?

(PS, If you just want filters, there are many apps on WP. I recommend Lomogram. Or get a lump of grease and put it on the camera lens. Does the same thing. I don’t think folks would care about having a specific Instagram app, but just one where they can use Instagam services. Like the various twitter and facebook apps).

Rant closed. Work time.

 

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Category: Nokia, Rant, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Matti

    Why anyone would develop anything for WP8 is a good question? Only answer I can come up with is “beign a big fish in a tiny pond”.

    Instagram is already a big fish in couple of really huge ponds. Why waste resources and money on Microsoft’s forever failing mobile platforms?

    • incognito

      Being a big fish in a tiny pond makes little sense when that pond is destined for evaporation.

      • dss

        Cruel..

    • viipottaja

      They don’t need to waste time and money. I am sure Nokia and MS would be happy to cover the cost of all that. Like “A Developer” said below, Instagram is just milking the situation.

      • guerrahp

        Didnt Google buy Instagram…

        • David

          Actually Facebook is the one that bought instagram… Facebook needs cash, Google does not.

          If Google owned it, they would make an instagram app instantly! Or, they would NEVER make it just to deny Window Phone and hope to get some of them onboard Android :P

          So based on the above logic (or lack), we’ll probably never see Instagram anytime soon unless MS or Nokia coughs up CASH. But as a 920 user, I don’t see why I would want to put effect on my perfect pictures… HTC owners maybe :P

          • Keith

            i agree with every point you made, Jay. I was content with WP8. I didn’t consuder Blackberry to be a threat at all. Until now. 70,000 apps right off the bat at launch. Granted, some of them are just ports from OS7 and such. But you look at how many apps old BB had, and now you look at BB10. Major difference. Quality apps, developers being very attracted to it and there are diehard blackberry enthusiasts.

            But then there’s Microsoft. A company Ive put faith in since almost two years ago now because once Nokia partnered up with them, i saw the potential WP has. The OS beint backed up by a tech giant like mS only means success, right? Apparently not.

            The problem with developers i think is the Metro interface. I’m currently in fomputer engineering learning C#. And it’s not a hard language. And it’s supported by WP. But then I realize that the problem is simply with Metro. It is limiting developers. forcing them to develop apps in Metro rather than an interface they think would suit their app the most. That’s the good thing about developing for iOS, android and now BB10. There’s freedom when it comes to app development. You don’t have to stick to one interface.

            Don’t get me wrong. I love metro. aNd I’m sure other people do too. But many don’t. Perhaps if MS figures out a way to implement a smooth transition from native Metro interface to a different interface offered by an app, developers would start considering WP. I just really want Wp to succeed. Nokia has bet everything on it. It must not go to waste.

            • Gerii

              I don’t think that a lot of apps come from the legacy BlackBerry platform as native legacy apps are not supported. Most of the ported apps come from the PlayBook OS which is essentially an older version of BlackBerry 10 or from Android.

            • Mark

              You don’t have to develop in Metro. You can create your own interface with C++/DirectX if you want. If your porting an app from another platform you would have to convert OpenGL to DirectX though.

              • Shaun

                You do though.

                If you don’t give it a Metro-style UI then you’re already hobbling your app with a non-native UI on WP, which people will hate.

                C++ support is also Windows Phone 8 only leaving the vast majority of WP users out in the cold.

                Good luck with a WP8 only non-native looking app.

              • Keith

                yup. I know you can create your own interface for your app. I was saying that Microsoft is pushing on developing apps in Metro so the whole windows phone experience is unified no matter what you’re doing on it. As the person below mentioned, developers habe to rethink their interface for their app. They essentially have to redesign it. Rather than designing the best interface for their app, they’re being asked to design their app around the (metro) interface. Which not many developers want.

            • noki

              from a UI implementation porting an app to metro is very different and if you want to maintain a certain quality level you have to basically rethink your entire app, into the metro logic of horizontal pan hinted navigation vs the multiple pages main page logic most other mobile OS’s feature… and in the end of the day you think? is it worth the effort?
              Combine that with all off the other limitations and its mostly a no brainier to not code for WP and focus on other platforms…

              The funny thing is that this is diametrically opposition to the ecosystems wars some believed to be the real game changer.
              Its not popular platforms will want to have the apps other platforms have and developers will have to embrace all of those making that joob easy is fundamental for you to survive…
              I’m not saying bb10 will succeed, but they look at their business and got it, they are not in the ecosystems wars money making business they are in the sell devices and services associated business, so they tried to make it as easy as possible for any ecosystem to be ported to theirs wile still maintaining some services that they charge extra for.

            • rustyknight17

              Ermmm , BB10 is a threat and 70k apps is more than any of its rivals had at their launches !

  • Chetan

    MS alone has to take the blame for all the lackofapplustre business…Nokia has played its part developed an excellent piece of hardware…its slogging its ass of to provide best possible support including apps and games..

    App developers at MS have to get they lazy heads out of their asses and provide some results…its been more than a year after this new WP platform was launched

    If MS does not come out with substantial news in Mobile World Congress…then its not only bad news for all we Windows Phone users..and ***k you MS

    • twig

      The question is? Where is all the Microsoft made apps and Xbox super hits, new hits to Wow the audience into buying Windows??? This is why software development, minus business, should come under Finish control, Nokia and game developing Finland. Microsoft is moving at the speed of a snail and should give Nokia what they are good at, which is speed of execution ,and let Microsoft handle advertising and the business community.

      • twig

        Sorry , Where are and Finnish. Xbox for Windows phones and tablets.

      • Ali Abdulla

        u lost me at “which is speed of execution” ,, :D

      • GordonH

        “Speed of Execution”
        Yes Nokia was really fast in the execution(killing) of all Nokia products competing against MS.

        • rustyknight17

          Great point !

  • jcar302

    When i’m asked about my windows phone by others, two questions arise.

    1. Does it do words with friends, which i can finally say yes (although somehow windows rt doesn’t support it).

    2. Can i get instagram, this is a dealbreaker for some. I don’t personally use it, but it obviously has a following.

    MS needs to start being proactive with the apps, they need to look at the numbers on other devices and see what is growing or is going to grow and make sure those apps exist before they are the next big thing, not after.

    • Mark

      With Instagram it’s going to be all about money. It won’t be that difficult to port but Facebook paid $1Bn for it and they will want Microsoft to pay them. I expect negotiations have been going on for quite a while now.

      • Viipottaja

        +1

        • Berto

          +2 = 3

  • Keith too

    I thought the release of WP8 was going to the inflection point for Windows Phone one way or the other and that is true to some degree as WP has been rising, especially in Europe. However more and more it is appearing like WP is approaching and even bigger inflection point. Many of us cut WP some slack in the beginning but now there appears to be a growing current of frustration over Microsoft’s lack of progress in addressing WP’s missing features. I know it was very tough to switch to a different kernel with WP8 but that is not our fault. The release from 7.0 to 7.5 was awesome and from a user’s standpoint was far better than going from 7.5 to 8. Other than the UI, the 8.0 release was disappointing.

    According to statcounter data, WP is gaining data usage share relative to other mobile OSes and that bodes well for the future for doing that well with so many missing features. But Microsoft has to up their game and give us another awesome .5 release and plug the few remaining major app holes such as Instagram.

  • Grendell

    It IS sad. WP8 doesn’t support the functionality older Nokia customers have gotten used to and it can’t provide the apps available to its competitors in a timely manner. It also lacks a lot off little things that many smartphone users take for granted. The picture gets clearer as time passes. So exactly what was the problem that WP and Microsoft was taken in to solve?
    Got my wife a Note 2 over the holidays. I was supposed to get her a 920 but it wasn’t available and it still isn’t in my area. Having experienced the note 2 with jelly bean, I can see exactly how stiff competition will be for WP 8. In fact all Samsung really needs IMHO is good industrial design and solid product build, CBD (which nokia might never license), offline mapping and a killer camera (although the stock one is decent). Now it’s just a matter of whoever can fix their OS shortcomings first. Unless Nokia starts moving towards android in which case the synergies would be awesome.

    • dss

      They have no chance against Samsung.. like.. zero.. its way to late for that.

      For some reason they thought that all their Symbian users will convert to WP users, which is a stupid assumption.. WP doesn’t offer what most Symbian users are used to, Android does, so that is where most of them are heading to. Android ( as shitty as it is ) is the new Symbian.

      I would never touch it.. to me its a messy OS which has only one purpose, and that is to distribute advertising for Google. That is the main reason they bought android in the first place.

      Windows NT mobile will have to get to 3.0 for me to consider it, and until then.. its Symbian and maybe QNX (bb10) for a while.

      • Grendell

        Clearly the move to WP7.5 and 8 cleaved of a lot of long time Nokia users craving Symbian functionality and sent them over to the android camp. Here’s hoping BB10 doesn’t rope in the rest. Thankfully there’s still the nokia sailfish speculation to hold some of our attention.

        • dss

          I see QNX (BB10) as the only EKA2 (Symbian) alternative out there right now, and I am betting that I am not the only one.

          Nokia will give Microsoft just enough push for them to survive until WP reaches a stable release (2.x) and then.. I don’t think anyone cares what happens to them. Microsoft will take this into their hands and start producing their own phones.. hopefully they can buy Nokia’s smartphone division for that.

          • Marc Aurel

            I don’t see anything holy in QNX and especially not in EKA2. There is no reason why you couldn’t build a well thought-out smartphone OS on top of Linux OR Windows NT. MeeGo is a proof of concept, although it did not have time to fully mature. Even Android sort of works even if it’s a little “messy” as you put it.

            The problem with Windows Phone is that it’s committed to the highly controversial and dividing Metro/Modern UI, but otherwise it’s pretty much an iOS copycat. Plus of course a lot of hackers and developers still have no love for Microsoft. They will develop for desktop Windows, because that’s many of them get payed for, but they have no desire to develop for the relatively tiny WP ecosystem. Many people forget that WP is now two and a half year old OS and compared to that it does not have a lot of developer support.

          • rustyknight17

            I agree!

      • nn

        I see a little difference between focusing on own core solution and replacing own core solutions solely with outsourced thing. Besides, it seems Apple is no longer doing so great, so I’m not sure it’s the best example.

        What Siilasmaa actually said on the question of plan B was something along the lines that there are other units at Nokia, effectively implying that if WP fails the smartphone unit indeed fails too, but Nokia is more than smartphones so the company wouldn’t disappear (which, btw, I think isn’t true either).

        • nn

          Ahem. Wrong thread.

      • nn

        I wonder if Nokia did any independent user testing of WP and investigated how their Symbian users will react to WP UI/UX. It was rejected by 98 %, you can’t miss such thing.

        On the other hand it would fit into all the things like having no plan B, signing the minimal license payments or extinguishing own alternatives. Elop could never in his wildest dreams imagine WP will fail and because WP simply is going to be big success, there is no need to test anything (or keep plan B, etc.).

        • dss

          Elop is just a pawn.. he is almost done with his part :)

        • Vineet

          There was lots of testing. And data. And reports

          Consultants.

          The kind that advised Nokia in the 80s to not get into mobile phones coz they were a niche market (at that time Nokia din’t listen and went onto to innovate and revolutionise the industry)

          Also the same kind that advised ebay that they have nothing to fear from Google.

          I’m not taking a swipe at

          • Vineet

            ………..all consultants here.

            When I said “same”, I meant it in a very literal sense.

            (Sorry for multipart comment, it got cut off)

            • jiipee

              I believe it as well. Wasnt it McKinsey, who suggested Nokia to drop Mobile arena in the 80s? They are one of the main strategy consultants and are probably behind the WP strategy. Id guess that the same consulting firm was also supporting MS during/after WM6 ;)

              • Marc Aurel

                There were a lot of ‘respectable’ industry analysts who in early 2011 honestly expected WP market share percentage to hit two figures by Q4 2013. Of course there were also people who said that WP would flop from the beginning (Ahonen was not the only one). Even Nokia internal analysis showed that the WP strategy carried major risks, but the potential benefits were seen as greater.

                Elop managed to sell his vision of Nokia as a leaner and meaner manufacturer without the huge in-house developer costs while still remaining separate from the Android masses through the ‘distinctive’ Windows Phone experience. He is obviously quite the salesman. By the time the risks started to become reality in Q3 2012, it was already too late to do anything; Symbian and MeeGo phone development was stopped ages ago and WP8 phones were almost ready. So Elop and the board decided to follow the plan and pray really heard that WP8 would become the success that WP 7.x failed to become. The jury is still out on that, but the Q4 results didn’t show too much promise.

      • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

        Nokia’s problem was the price point.

        It was not possible to make low end Symbian users to buy high end WP or MeeGo phones. Nokia was selling too few high end phones. They just didn’t have users that would have bought those new phones.

        Yes?

        • dss

          WP doesn’t run on low end hardware.. Microsoft needs to optimize the OS further, but I think they (just like google) would rather wait for the hardware to catch up to the software needs, rather than going the other way around. Its cheaper that way.

    • rustyknight17

      Yes it is ! More so because MS simply doesn`t have the luxury of moving slowly . If necessary , they need to hire more SW engineers , but get WP8 fixed if they want to be successful !

    • Shaun

      CBD is just a polarising filter in between the glass and panel. It’s nothing particularly special.

    • rustyknight17

      All too true and similar to what I`ve been saying for many months ! Love to see Nokia and WP succeed but that`s looking less likely all the time to put it mildly !

  • Error

    One big thing is also that you can do Qt development on every major desktop OS (Linux, Windows Xp, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Mac OS/X). WP8 development is only possible on Windows 8. There’s a big number of developers who use only Linux or Mac.

    • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

      Eventhough I agree that MS should allow for more platforms to develop from it hasn’t stopped iPhone apps growing. Xcode is only available on a Mac and since the Mac App Store you can only get it there.

      Even Apple requires you have the latest of their desktop SW. But yes, MS is the underdog here and should allow atleast Win7 to be used as a dev platform.

      • Brian

        Error: “WP8 development is only possible on Windows 8.”
        and
        Harangue: “MS is the underdog here and should allow atleast Win7 to be used as a dev platform”

        Not strictly true.

        You can develop WP7 apps on Win7 (and maybe Vista and XP for all I know). Then when you submit them to the app store they will be released as both WP7 and WP8 apps.

        Only if you require a feature that is exclusive to WP8 do you have to have Win8.

        Currently there are > 10 million WP7 phones out there and < 5 million WP8 phones. That simple arithmetic means that I, like I suspect most others who develop WP apps, will continue to develop apps for WP7 for the simple reason that the market is 3 times bigger than the WP8 market and will always be bigger than the WP8 market unless all WP7 phones are destroyed.

        I do have Win 8 installed on two of my machines – sole boot on my laptop and triple boot on my main development machine – but I've yet to make the effort to do any work on a WP8 only app for the simple reason that I know that at the end 3x the normal WP7 graphics work awaits me to cater for the 3 different screen resolutions. Maybe over the Easter holidays if I have more than a couple of days off from my day job.

        • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

          Thanks for that, didn’t know. I’m thinking lockscreen API’s are WP8 exlusive? If so, that would mean that if you want to make a little emersive app you should have W8?

          • migo

            That would make sense.

      • Marc Aurel

        Mac makes a better general purpose development system since you can run Windows and Linux on a Mac (either virtually or natively), but you can’t run Mac OS on a ‘PC’ (non-Apple x86 system). So quite a few developers have Macs nowadays. In addition Mac OS is a BSD Unix derivative, so it’s favored by many hackers over Windows. Going x86 was really one of the smartest things Apple has done with Mac after Mac OS 10 was introduced.

        • incognito

          It used to be like that, nowadays you can run MacOS X in VirtualBox perfectly fine (with a little bit of tweaking). Saves a ton on overpriced gaudy hardware…

          • noki

            Yeah but companies pay for that hardware so they go for it :)
            its scary almost all my coworkers are on mac’s now :) and we don’t code much for OSX.

          • Shaun

            Overpriced possibly but IME of trying to shift from a Mac to Ubuntu on a ThinkPad, you need to spend almost as much for a decent ThinkPad and it’ll still be heavier, slower and noisier than a MacBook. Ubuntu is ok but third party software is a mixed bag.

            Of course you can buy Samsungs and HPs for less but they’re creaky, plastic dross. And you can use Windows to get better 3rd party software support but then you still have to use Windows. (yuk)

            It’s a tool I use all day, every day. I’m worth it. ;-)

        • migo

          The best thing about a Mac is you can run Windows on it natively. I haven’t bothered installing OSX on my MacBook in a long time, so obviously I won’t bother getting one again, but yeah, if you want to develop for iOS too, then it is the most convenient to get. Then again, for an iOS developer who already has a Mac, buying Windows 8 isn’t that expensive.

    • GordonH

      +1
      In the mobile space MS is far behind in developers mind. Ms is is acting like it can move the ecosystem in their direction. Things are going to move slowly with WP8 development limited to only Ms product advantages.

  • Doffen

    The real problem is that MS like Apple are a bunch of greedy pigs… If you can survive without cooperating with them you simply keep away.

  • Pierre Lavoux

    You will not like it – there is Instagram for Sailfish OS. You can believe me or not.

    • j

      oh i like it..

    • viipottaja

      I assueme you mean the Android version, that can run on Sailfish through some adapter/emulator? I would be surprised if there was one made from scratch for Sailfish.

      • jiipee

        Or he means the N9 qt app. It didnt have all the features.

      • Marc Aurel

        Considering third party Android apps are non-native code anyways (unless you run some Unix/Linux stuff on a rooted system), a Dalvik clone would run Android apps as natively as Android does…

        • incognito

          You don’t have to root Android in order to use native code (with some limitations, tho) – NDK has been available for quite some time. Sadly, apps that utilize NDK will hardly work on Dalvik VM clones…

  • migo

    There’s another viewpoint to this. Maybe Nokia should be courting Instagram, and then market it as “PureView + Instagram, a match made in heaven”. It turns out Sonic CD and Super Monkey Ball 2 are free to Lumia users, (although not showing in the Canadian Nokia collection, so regional restrictions strike again) so Nokia has evidently had some success with courting devs (as long as it’s not their own platform).

    • Just Visiting

      There was an interview at WPCentral that the editor had with Chris Weber from Nokia – it ‘seems’ like there are efforts, but what the progression is of those talks is the mystery.

      • jiipee

        It could be that the app developers and service providers noticed that Nokia and MS were willing to pay for apps for WP7 and are now milking more money from them. That could be one reason, why Rovio first said that Angry birds wont be available for WP and next day said that it will.

        • migo

          Well, MS does have deep pockets, and without the devs, the platform is nothing.

  • dss

    instagram sucks anyway… I never understood the fanaticism around it. It was the same with Symbian..

    WP8 has much bigger issues to address first.. silly apps like that will eventually come along.

    • tkadrum

      Precisely!!!
      instagram is so overrated.
      WHY on earth do I WANT to see my friends eat for breakfast, what watch they just bought, and all other SCRAPS! Same reason why I DONT DO FACEBOOK. I don’t need to know (not all, but some) what he/she does when he/she is bored,etc.

      • dss

        I don’t even mind that.. its the silly effects that get me.. yes, make your photo look like from the 50s.. bravo! You are so hip..

        • Grendell

          Instagram was a clever way to leverage phones with middling cameras. Funny that it did as well as it did. Nokia could develop something similar for the aspiring photographers among its fans showing how superior cameras blow the IG shots out of the water…except they no longer make awesome cameras..so they kinda need IG…

        • Marc Aurel

          It’s a fad and only time will tell how long it lasts. Sometimes fads enfure longer than expected. The young people who use IG are in general easily lured by social trends like it, as are even some older people who don’t want to feel left behind the times.

  • viipottaja

    Instagram founders are probably some MS-hating, Linux-based-thingies-loving propellerhead hippies.. ;) :P

    • Just Visiting

      Yep. Whenever I see an app not being ported to WP, while the development may not be easy as pie, I immediately think that it is that they are probably Linux lovers and/or MS haters.

      • viipottaja

        Whatever the case, it seems HIGHLY implausible to me that Nokia and MS would not have offered to pay and resource the full cost of developing the WP version.

        • Just Visiting

          Agreed. Lots of ‘what’s missing from WP’ articles this weekend – hope Joe Belfiore is listening.

          I don’t need IG for my Lumia, but I hope for the sake of WP users who want it, that MS is able to get it.

          • migo

            Yeah, ultimately the app numbers come down to there might only be 10 core apps that any given person uses, but it’s always 10 different core apps for each person, so the more that’s available, the more a platform becomes viable.

  • rustyknight17

    Keith , Grenell , Error , with youse !
    I`ve always said that WP has potential , provided that Nokia and MS play their cards right . Trouble is MS doesn`t seem to be playing its cards right , as per normal for MS , sadly . I mean , look at the last quarter . The Lumias had no credible challengers and still only managed 4.4 M units ! I bergin to think Tomi has a point here … And it`s only going to get tougher for wp from here . There`s BB10 , for example , ewhich evidently is pretty awesome , plus there r other dangerous rivals !

    • Sonny

      FFS I hope Nokia release a new lumia with an 808 cam and all the goodies at MWC to counter the Iphone 5S and GS4 because that’s the 2 most talked about phones currently

      • Grendell

        I hope they add the missing Symbian functionalities as well since they complimented the cameras nicely. A whole content creator suite if you will, which was a significant draw to the N8 and 808 for those so inclined. Such functionalities also served the developing markets well. Something Nokia seems to have abandoned in favor of the Apple market model.

        • migo

          That’s not really a Symbian functionality, it’s just an app, but yes, that would be a welcome inclusion.

      • rustyknight17

        Make that 3 phones , the Z10 is very much discussed just now !

  • krishna6233

    Never used the N9 or saw it but all i know abt it is from here MNB n other sites …ppl really loved meego more than wp8 …even here anythin related to MEEGO gets more comments than WP ….
    i was planning to buy a 620 or 720(when released) …..may b its better to hold on a little ….. n the most sad part wp8 doesnot have fm radio …. using E52 ,….buy an android or stay with NOkia??

    • pathetic

      definitely android , the N9 is a great, The N9 is amazing terminal but no longer supported, it’s your choice, look for what you want, if your looking for FM radio or the features you had in your Symbian , WP definitely not for you, (I do not know for what kind of people are focused WP) android is the closest thing to symbian, maybe android

    • jiipee

      620 seems solid, you should definitely give it a thought. I dont know so much for the Androids of today especially in that price point to comment on them.

      One thing you probably pay attention to: what are the data usage levels between WP and Android with the range of apps/services you use. That can mean a lot to the monthly bill depending on your billing plan.

      • incognito

        You can get the LG Nexus 4 for the same amount of money, and while I personally dislike Android, compared to WP it has far more value, especially in the low-price segment. Just sayin’…

        • krishna6233

          not possible..here we buy unlocked phones

          • Shaun

            Nexus 4 is usually sold unlocked by Google direct. You can get it through carriers but for some reason, at least in the UK, they cost MORE than the unlocked phone from Google’s Play store.

      • Grendell

        Better, yet the galaxy premier would probably come the closest if you expect Symbian functionality. It’s got a decent camera, sd card support, jellybean, and a dual core (no quad core can yet match Symbians battery life unless you start going for the phablets). It’ll literally play any video you stick in it and its got a very large screen relative to its size.

        • krishna6233

          personally i dont like the samsung design …i love Nokia for their distincntive designs..never owned a samsung n most probably wil never …the only samsung phone i liked is the s2 ..looks better than their pebble shaped phones ..!!

          yep ..android comes closest to symbian ..i wiil wait to see
          if appolo update brings fm radio n other important features.

        • rustyknight17

          Yeah , it`s decent but I`d go for the Z10 or wait for the Q10 ..

      • krishna6233

        i can wait 2months mores …lets see wat they announces in the MWC this month …im from India n here affordable 3G plans are not available .. i use 2G!!

    • dss

      Either stay with Symbian and see how this plays out, or go with QNX. I would stay away from google’s advertising platform

    • rustyknight17

      Or BB10

    • migo

      I’d go cheap, so 620. I’m not disappointed with my 710 purchase, because it was a great deal at the time I got it, so even though it has limited features and is practically EOL, I’m fine with it. The 620 looks to be the logical successor to the 710, seems to be launching even cheaper, and all the drawbacks can be forgiven for the price, as you’re not getting a good Android at that price.

      WP8 competes incredibly well at the low end (just as 7.5 did last year), as it’s capable of offering mid-range features for low end prices. At the mid-high range, it’s less of a good deal, as good Androids (particularly the Nexus 4, which is now consistently available for sale) come in at that price. And the Nexus 4 does for the mid-range what the 620 does for the low-end. It brings hardware from one step up at a lower price point.

      • rustyknight17

        Not quite migo , the 620 is midrange , not low end .

  • pathetic

    I do not understand why you want instagram, if you have resizable tiles? I do not understand XD XD hahaha LOL. what you must understand is that developers hate WP, is a waste of effort and money, Maybe you should ask this question if microsoft owns skype, why skype still in beta?
    Still think it’s easy to make Instagram? its owners, cant develop their own application? still think it’s a great platform WP?

  • A Developer

    I love how all you (most likely) non engineers/devs rant about apps not being available on platforms.

    You realize that something as simple as a mail client, the oh so famous GMail was in beta for about 5 years.

    Building anything that millions use every single day is no laughing matter. The most likely reason that BB10 has it is that it is much easier for current Android Java code and associated libraries to be ported within the same language to a different platform, compared to porting it all to a completely different language.

    And before saying it is easy to just port the front end, they already have the backend, blah blah blah, then remember, these are big apps, no, HUGE APPS, which HAVE to maintain a level of quality and UX, regardless of which platform they are on. Even with minimal quality acceptance, an app like Instagram would take a few months to build, test and deploy. Now factor in the fact that they are indeed big, and are most likely leveraging this to get a huge chunk of cash out of Microsoft (remember this is the same group which said no to Twitter’s $500m buyout offer, even before receiving FB’s) because they know they can.

    I am sure Microsoft could do something to speed this up a bit, but its not as big of a deal-breaker as blogs make it out to be. A few anecdotes about a friend of a friend not wanting WP because it doesn’t have Instagram, don’t count. If they are denying an entire platform, just because of 1 app, then they couldn’t have been serious about it in the first place.

    • tkadrum

      You nailed it there buddy!

    • Gordon Ramsay juttelee mukavia

      Yes.

      Most people here don’t understand that something working is not something you can ship.

    • viipottaja

      THANK YOU!!! PLEASE come back and comment often.

    • yoyo

      Since we have you here; what do you think of MS strategy regarding developers? From the start they have been shouting developers, developers, developers, but the results do not speak in their favor…

    • yoyo

      Since we have you here; what do you think of MS strategy regarding developers?

      From the start they have been shouting developers, developers, developers, but the results do not speak in their favor…

      • A Developer

        Actually they do. Unless you are limiting your view to a very narrow scope of “Top Apps” on other platforms, developers willing to make apps for the WP8 platforms has been on a steady increase. You’ll see quite a few reports about developers getting better revenue via WP than other platforms.

        WP7.5/8 fragmentation was a definite deterrent to the rise, but it will even out soon. Another thing to keep in mind is the geography of it. Despite their best efforts, WP is much more popular outside the US. Microsoft has begun taking advantage of this with developer reward programs that aren’t just limited to US developers.

        Now I don’t expect the overall WP market share to get to double digits anytime soon. But these things always have a snowball effect. More developers, means more apps, means more customers, means more developers. The platform is well designed enough that it won’t die out, and with Microsoft and Nokia’s current efforts I can see it doing well, albeit in a slow and steady manner.

        • noki

          I belive you are commig from a microsoft POV, Nokia wont have moeny to keep trowing away into this small platform indefenetly… Microsoft sure, they have been thrwoing money at mobile since any one can remembers with litle results to show for it, they have realy deep pokets.. Nokia? not so much..

          • A Developer

            Agreed. Nokia will have a hard time, but then again they shouldn’t need to. After all at the end of the day WP is Microsoft’s platform and as appreciative as I am as a consumer and developer am of Nokia’s effort to build up this platform, I always feel that these efforts should have come from Microsoft as well.

            The main issue with the lackluster response is because Microsoft literally keeps moving developers to square one in their every major release. Devs went from WM to WP7 and WP7 to WP8. Sure WP7 apps can run on WP8, but any product will lose out on quality if they take this approach. And for this I’ll agree, Microsoft have no one to blame but themselves.

            However, I am hopeful, that WP8 to whatever the next major version is, does not do this again.

            • noki

              Think they will reinvent the platform again soon the entire metro unified experience is proving to be a disaster and I expect them to reboot that soon enough.
              And with that they will probably also open a few more ways to do things to make them more attractive to occasional developers that simply want to migrate apps.
              That is what Microsoft as done over the years expecting them to change is unrealistic IMO.

              • A Developer

                I was looking at it from the angle of development. Redesigning the entire design philosophy of an OS every major release, while unnecessary, is still better than requiring developers to completely rewrite their app to stay “native”

    • Noki

      But in a way you described the biggest problem wp faces for apps, its just 2 different form everybody else.

      Some thought this was a war of the ecosystems, were developers would be locked in some walled gardens and would not communicate with other platforms, guess what its not, popular apps are demanded in all platforms and the companies behind them have to port those apps to the platforms were cost benefit analisis makes more sense to port to.
      Guess what its not WP, and Microsoft&Nokias as been offering trucks of money incentives to developers, but developers simply don’t care, its simply to different and usually requires getting new developers to do the port.

      • A Developer

        I completely agree. Cost analysis has to make sense for the developer. Which it does for most developers who are either starting out or who still have the flexibility to decide their future expansion.

        The problem WP faces is not from these developers, which is increasing according to any source you trust. The issue is the top apps on other platforms. Even with a cost analysis perspective, these developers will at the very least break even. But why do it? Microsoft has a track record of throwing money to solve a problem. So why wouldn’t these developers wait for it. Especially if there’s the perception that their specific app is potentially causing Microsoft to lose new customers. Holding out is the best business decision they can make.

        • noki

          there is a secondary problem to the throw money at it and medium sized company combo…
          If Microsoft simply throws a one time payment to the deal, the manager as to take in to aout the full time frame of the thing… he has to think about 2 options…1 pay the trayning to his exysting software team. (might not work) with some consulting help frim in the beguining…(making the deal a bit dangerous)…. Or simply hire new staf with the skilst required, but that meens finding them and worse maintining them on a platfrom that is not self sustained.

  • Gman

    Don’t know what everyone is freaking out over. The app in the screenshot is MOLOME which is also available on Symbian…

  • Peter

    They certainly are lazy and slow. WP 7.8 was introduced almost eight months ago and only now are we seeing it appear officially. That is poor execution and sucks for the owners to have to wait that long for an update.

    And why would developers bother with WP? Apps created for iOS, Android, Symbian, BB and Meego platforms can easily, with a couple of hours work, be converted to run on any other of the above mentioned platforms while the dev would have to rewrite the entire app to run on WP. It really doesn’t make any sense does it? In the long run this will be unbearable and will lead to the demise of WP (among other things) no matter how much money MS and Nokia are pouring in to this endless pit.

    • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

      Are you seriously suggesting that a Symbian app would run on iOS or the other way around with just a few hours of work? I’m no app developer but I do know that API’s are fundamental and calling upon them is different in each OS if they are even present in said OS.

      With WP8, WP also supports C++ which is also what iOS, Symbian, Android and practically all other OS’ around the world use to some extent. Your argument is valid with WP7, but version 8 not so much.

      Working code alone does get the app working but it won’t get it sold. With all major OS’ utilizing an app store with aproval process (apart from the jungle that is Google Play) it is hard getting your app in there without adhering to guidelines. Apple has some strict ones and I doubt a straight Symbian port would even get in that store. And I’m even forgetting rewriting essential UI elements all iOS apps require.

      Code wise many apps could run between iOS, Symbian, Android and the lot. But it doesn’t end there, so there is more work required than you imply. It doesn’t mean that MS made a mistake with WP7 and its managed instead of native code.

      • migo

        Have to agree here, if Symbian were easy to work with, devs wouldn’t have abandoned it en masse to work on iOS.

        • rustyknight17

          Ermmm , not sure what u mean , the Nokia Store , despite the SYMbian EOL , has more apps than ever !

  • Glavata

    Requirement to develop for WP8? Windows 8… What the hell was Microsoft thinking limiting their dev platform so much.

    • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

      Apple does the same with iOS or Xcode as their dev platform is called. It only runs on OSX. This requires a substantial investment since you can’t run just OSX in a virtual machine or install it on existing HW. Meaning you need to buy a new physical machine to be able to dev for iOS.

      It doesn’t mean that MS made a stupid move by limiting WP8 development to W8, it is an utter mad decision.

      • incognito

        Apple has the luxury of a sky-high (from WP’s perspective) market share, best ROI for developers out of all app stores and a couple of other things, so they can allow themselves to be arrogant. Microsoft, however, is not in that position.

        Also, nowadays you can actually run MacOS X in a VM or make your own hakintosh if you don’t want to pay for the overpriced Apple hardware.

        • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

          True, yet it has always been that way. Even when Apple did have to court developers in the very early days of iOS. Back then potent hardware to develop on cost even more than it does today.

          How can you run OSX in a VM? You can’t from what I know since you can only run OSX on Apple hardware. A Hackintosh is an option, but come on, what real legitimate developer will venture into that gray area of legal/illegal use of software?

          • incognito

            Apple’s arrogance is legendary, that is pretty much given. However, you must consider that even with not really significant market share, they actually had a very desirable product that was poised to grab a significant piece of the pie so one could at least justify investing in their overpriced hardware as a future business investment. Microsoft is nowhere near that position.

            As for MacOS X in a VM, Google is your friend (even Bing ought to find something :P) – for example this excellent guide. Sure thing, it’s not strictly legal but then again I’m quite sure that at any time we have more Apple hardware in our offices than actual running MacOS X systems, both natively and through VM. A lot of our devs run Linux on their Macs, some even Windows, and then they run MacOS X through VM on the same hardware (this doesn’t require any hacking and is considered 100% legal) – it all depends on what’s on our current agenda. We try to use the hardware we have as efficiently and diversely as possible.

            If we are ever to develop for WP/W8/whatever-that-might-require-W8 I’m quite sure we’d be running that visual abomination and productivity nightmare in a VM as well.

      • incognito

        Forgot to mention – W8 by itself is a utter and total productivity mess, I know of no single developer who would like to have that fugly UI on their desktops and then switch to it all the time when they need to run a simple app. MacOS X at least doesn’t suffer from that.

        • Noki

          MacOS X is very developer friendly, windows…. not so much… windows 8 ??? is that a joke :)

          • incognito

            I wouldn’t really call it very developer friendly – to me Windows + Powershell + Linux in VM for some of the magic is far better option than MacOS X alone.

            But that might just be my bias, I really hate the OSX dumbed-down UI (and Apple’s ridiculously overpriced hardware) and I find the Windows (regular, mind you, not the TIFKAM abomination of the Windows 8) far more productive environment. YMMV.

            • noki

              Pffff tell that to 80% of my colegues that I cant get them out of their macbooks pros. :( I also dont like apple, heheheh there are not alot of large companyes I do like :) hehehehe

  • Nokia Paid Poster

    Who cares about Instragam?!

    Instagram users (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) are vain, while Nokia users are humble!

  • incognito

    While I can’t offer a reasonable explanation why there isn’t Instagram (amongst many other popular apps) for WP yet – apart from the common sense reasons lurking between insignificant user base and trying to milk Microsoft for more cash – I can offer you some insight on my company’s experiences and reasons why we don’t develop for WP.

    My company is a mid-size company (~100 workers) nowadays focused primarily on mobile development (more than 70% of our revenue with projected 80% for 2013). While we have a couple of moderately successful apps (i.e. they paid off their development and provide enough income for support and basic maintenance) on various platforms, our prime source of income is providing a supporting libraries (mainly communication & integration) and services to other developers/companies. Currently we provide our bundles for iOS, Android, Windows (desktop), MacOS X and Linux. We used to have Blackberry in our stack as well, but we ceased the development last March – we’ll probably get back to it for QNX this March.

    In past three years (since we offer development bundles) we have released more than 15000 revolving and static licenses to more than 2000 clients for various offers of ours so we also have quite a good insight on what the ‘industry’ wants from us as well. Out of all of them – only 5, and in writing – five – asked if we are going to support WP as well, and that was in its early days, I can’t remember when was the last time somebody asked us for WP support. We had far more inquiries for ye olde Symbian (which we were on the verge on adding support for prior to the Feb’11 Nokia suicide) than for WP and we still didn’t consider it (what with being EOLed by its main maker n’ all) so chances for our support of WP are pretty non-existent, and the same goes for our clients as they depend on our solutions. Just one example, given that several large banks are using our supporting libraries you can be pretty sure they won’t be offering their app for WP users. Incidentally, they never even asked us for WP support. Not once.

    Besides the fact that WP obviously is of no interest to our clients, there are also other reasons why we aren’t considering WP development. First, due to our appalling experiences with .NET in the past and Microsoft-immersed partners, there is little goodwill to support anything related to Microsoft (we do support desktop Windows for legacy reasons, but it stops at that, we’re avoiding any Microsoft-specific solutions as much as we can). Consequently, WP will never win what we call `popular vote` (senior developers vote each March on which platforms/technologies we should add to our supported stack and what has to be removed for the next year – our management is sane enough to understand that developers know better what is suitable for development so they don’t force technologies on us, instead they work out strategy around our chosen technologies) and without it, unless we have a huge demand from our clients, there is virtually no chance for us to add WP to our stack.

    Second, given that 50% of our workstations are running Linux, and less than 10% are running Windows (and not a single one running Windows 8, not even in VM) – investing in OS licenses and IT administration – and not to mention purchasing of various WP devices and WP developer licenses – for the chance to actively develop for WP with its miniscule market share will never pass the budget planning.

    Third, two of my colleagues and I have an ear with the upper management (I even managed to convince a co-owner of my company to purchase the N900, he loved it (after I set it up) but finally replaced it a few months ago with a HTC OneX :( ) and all three of us abhor the very idea behind WP, let alone the development options, so even if by some miracle WP gets the ‘popular vote’ we’d probably be able to stop any notion of development for it. Nothing personal, we just don’t think that it’s good for the mobile industry to have a Goliath like Microsoft, well known for its bullying tactics, to pull another Apple but with less style and more brute force. We think it would profoundly cripple both our business and the industry in general.

    And mind you, it’s not as if Microsoft didn’t try to lure us to their shiny new system. They gave us a box full of Omnia 7s back in the day, no questions asked, to make us consider developing for their platform. I guess they’ve heard from some of our big clients that they are using our technologies and without our support they wouldn’t be able to provide their apps/services for WP. Microsoft even semi-officially offered us a, hmmm, bribe to consider it – but the ‘bribe’ was too small for us to add .NET to our stack. Had they come now with WP8′s native support (at least we wouldn’t have to port everything) we might have reconsider it – mind you, just to fleece them, we’d promise to look into it and devote resources but we wouldn’t really give it much thought, instead our interns would be working on that to keep the money rolling without really producing a useful end result. Like it or not, that’s how this business works – after all, AT&T is doing to Nokia exactly the same thing.

    Granted, we ain’t no Instagram (tho if 30M users of Instagram is the correct number, I’d speculate that more users are using apps based on our supporting libraries) but this is how it works with us. WP practically has no chance unless it grabs a significant market share and severely lax the artificial restrictions – both OS-wise and market-wise – and I don’t see that happening. But if some miracle happens, we might add it next March to our stack, not prior to that – otherwise it just makes no sense for us business-wise. Either way, totally deserved bad karma of Microsoft would remain the barrier of entry even if moderately successful.

    • shallow ocean shoal

      You see the chicken and egg problem?

      FYI there are enough of us who refuse to purchase apple products…

      • incognito

        It is a chicken and egg problem, I never claimed it’s anything else – if WP was immensely popular, no matter of our personal dislikes and the aforementioned bad karma, we’d have to develop for it to remain in the business – Apple comes to mind here, apart from a couple of our devs we pretty much dislike them, but you just can’t ignore them and two out of three times when a client comes, the first bundle they ask for is for iOS (+desktop packages), most of them never even ask for Android afterwards, tho that is changing in the past year.

        Android as well, while having far more goodwill within the company and the vast majority of our devs are using Androids as their daily drivers, some of us (including me) consider it an abomination – still, we just can’t sit there and ignore it’s popularity whether we like it or not, there is a clear (and rising) demand for it.

        Windows Phone has no such luxury – not even close. Hadn’t we been royally screwed by Microsoft (not necessarily directly) on a numerous occasions, and had they allowed native programming on the WP from the start (I still don’t get whose ludicrous idea was to limit it to .NET with such measly market share, as if devs will come in droves all enthusiastic to rewrite every single library that has been brewing for decades) we might have taken on it, just to broaden our offer. After all, many of our packages have nothing to do with servers but we still develop desktop Linux version of those and desktop Linux is not exactly the king of market share. Sadly, that just isn’t the case with WP, and certainly wasn’t the case with WP7 – now it’s just too little, too late.

        As for people refusing to purchase Apple products, you can freely count me in that group. That still doesn’t change the fact that if you want to be in this business you just have to support their platform.

    • shallow ocean shoal

      By the way, your “intern” comment was despicable.

      I would be pretty angry if I were your intern, being put on your bullsht project, and would look for full time elsewhere.

      • incognito

        Have you ever worked as a developer? Of course you give your interns bullshit projects, you won’t put them right in the fire without knowing what they are capable of. All of us passed through that stage in the past, that’s how this business works.

        You give interns easy assignments and do constant evaluations of their work until you know what are their limits. If you could put them on a company-related project that is not important to you, as it would be had we chosen to develop for WP, all the better – that way they get to know your internal systems, organization, etc. without risking your business. And everybody’s a winner – interns get valuable experience, you get to know their capabilities and get to know who to keep as a full time employee. Well, in the above case Microsoft would be the looser, but we’re fine with that.

        • shallow ocean shoal

          NO YOU DON’T.

          You give your interns REAL WORK. Or they will resent you for it. Don’t insult their intelligence. Nobody is saying to give them that critical job that will cause your business to fail if they don’t complete it by their end date, for christs sake.

          You don’t pass them along some garbage that is beneath you and is used as leverage for “fleecing” another company. You want them to get you a coffee, too?

          • noki

            I agree, incognito don’t force your poor interns to code for WP that is just inhumane…

            Think about it? hehehehehehehe…

    • shallow ocean shoal

      Just to “fleece” them, because you feel others are doing it too?

      This, ladies and gentleman, is the problem with society, nicely summed up.

      You are a horrible person.

      Please tell us the name of your application.

      • incognito

        Have you finished deconstructing my comment?

        1) I don’t feel others are doing it, too – I know others are doing it, too. Every single company I’ve been working in was employing shady tactics given good enough incentive. Which is why I find laughable Google’s ‘do no evil’ motto. Sorry to burst your bubble but this ain’t no Wonderland, it’s a cutthroat business. I wish it would be different, but it isn’t. You have the choice to either play the game, or to move away.

        2) Why am I a horrible person? I don’t decide on business policies of my company, my domain is the technology and strategy around that. Now if telling you all how it is makes me a horrible person, so be it, but pretending that it doesn’t work like I presented won’t make it go away. There are clients you value more, and there are clients you value less, and in the nick of time you will nix the latter, just as they would nix you had they found a better business opportunity. Leave emotions at the company’s doorstep if you want to be in business.

        3) I speak in my own name and I’m giving you insider’s view on how it works. I won’t disclose any identifiable information about neither my company nor our clients, past or present. I mention only Microsoft in the context of the original post asking is Microsoft doing enough to popularize their offer. These things are kept as a public secret. You can either choose to believe or not if it is like I presented it, without any names in particular tied to the above, but know this – you can attach pretty much any company to the above ‘practices’, it wouldn’t change a thing, the industry works like that.

        • shallow ocean shoal

          I don’t care if others are doing it too. I could care less if we’re talking about Microsoft or Whamo. That doesn’t mean that you should.

          You need to find a new moral compass.

          • noki

            “moral compass” and Microsoft in the same text is “funny”

          • rustyknight17

            Yeahhh must agree , it`s possible to have morals and be a good businessman . I know , I`ve seen it too often . It`s a matter of choice.

    • outsight

      ++++
      Great insight
      Again ++++

    • http://twitter.com/haranguemnb Harangue

      No offense, but from what I read it is basically 3 people not wanting to have anything to do with either Microsoft or Windows Phone and wil go thoruhg great lengths to prevent the company to do any work on WP.

      As far as I’m concerned MS cocked it all up in WP7. With WP8 they are seeing how it should be done but not to the full extent yet. So yes, developing for WP7 seemed pointless and over complicated with all of its managed code instead of native access.

      I might be wrong in my judgement of your comment, but the general feel I get is resentment for MS rather than a well balanced decision, eventhough there are several legitimate reasons why one wouldn’t develop for WP.

      • incognito

        Not really through great lengths – but we will try to stop any kind of venture into it without a proper business justification – i.e. developing for it for the sake of broadening our offer when none of our clients are actually asking for it. Then again, we don’t have to – the sentiment is shared almost unanimously through the company due to some very dire past experiences with both Microsoft and Microsoft-locked technologies. Sure thing, had we had a tremendous demand to actually develop for the WP, we’d take on it, yes we’d bitch and moan for doing the job we don’t really want to, but business is business and you can’t always have it your way no matter of what kind of influence you have. Our company wouldn’t grow if our management was dumb to pass on good business opportunities no matter how much they themselves might dislike them.

        Had Microsoft went out with WP8 back then instead of the half-assed WP7, we might at least consider it for a, ehm, bribe but that ship has sailed. Now they really need a miracle to raise any kind of interest from us or our clients.

        As for the resentment, I never hid it. I could write a book on past experiences with Microsoft, Microsoft-centric developers and technologies and how we had to split our company at one point because of Microsoft’s jumping from tree to tree. Damn right we are repulsed by their offers. Which just makes their barrier of entry, at least amongst us, much higher than it would be usually needed – but even if we were all lovey dovey with them, there is very little business sense to pursue their offers. I said it, and I’ll say it again, we have had no serious demand for broadening our spectrum to WP, and that is the prime reason why we are not doing anything WP related. No resentment or discomfort would make us miss good business opportunities, those would come into play only if we wanted to venture into that world for the sake of broadening our offer and shear fun of exploration – like we almost added Qt bindings to our libs – and since there is no reason or demand for us to develop for WP, and we have a lot of horrible experiences with Microsoft, chances for us to develop for WP are next to none. Sure thing, if Microsoft pulls out a rabbit out of their hat by March next year, we might include it in our offer – this year BB10 will probably get the ‘popular vote’.

      • noki

        Don’t underestimate the hate many developers have for Microsoft, Its a lot of bad Karma over the years, I can talk for myself I despise Microsoft, and I talk with the personal experience and pains from the past. Microsoft is just the worse partner you can have. Usually you get burned.
        I travel a bit all over in consulting gigs and I see this “hate” as almost part of the turf.

    • Viipottaja

      Which country are you/your clients in?

      There are, afaik, quite a few banks in various countries already with WP apps or announced plans for providing one.

  • GordonH

    The WinCE(WP7) move by MS created a lot of negative trust. WinCe was a bad technical/engineering move.
    Later even MS released that pushing WinCE in the mobile space was just wrong and it limiting or hindering technology. Now with WinNT (WP8) things look ok but that WinCE move leaves a bad taste.
    MS + Elop should be ashamed for pushing Nokia and developers towards WinCE.

    • Marc Aurel

      Windows Mobile had Windows CE kernel, so it was the automatic choice for Microsoft. Also Windows CE was designed for lower end hardware than Windows NT, which was still an issue back in 2009. I don’t see much wrong with MS choosing Windows CE then; it was the iOS ‘me too’ attitude and requirement to use only managed code for third party apps with hurt Windows Phone. And for some people at least, the Metro UI.

      • GordonH

        “Automatic choice for Microsoft”?
        More of a bad choice. Every talented software engineer knew it was a wrong and limiting choice.
        The worse part was Nokia and MS tried to shove that “limiting OS/technology” into high end phones.

  • outsight

    My own insight: I am a small dev developing mobile apps mainly in Qt. So my reasons for not developing for M$ are more “personal”, that is they mostly have none of the cold business logic that companies use when deciding which platforms they support.

    So here are my main reasons for not even considering M$ WP:

    1) 2 – 11 (February 11): Microsoft destroyed Nokia Qt roadmap on 2-11 and I could never “forgive” them for that (along with true open source mobile OSes and Europe’s last chance of hanging in with the big boys in tech – I’m european)
    2) Until WP 8 there was no native app development (that is C/C++); Ok, it’s there in WP 8, but would have been better if it was there from the beginning; I hate managed runtimes (Java, .NET), as a developer if you can’t remember to delete a pointer there is no escaping you will surely make many more mistakes
    3) No opengl support – and that reflects M$ strategy, trying to impose its own proprietary technologies, in this case DirectX
    4) No Qt support – I guess this is a direct consequence of 3)
    5) M$ store developer fee, I think it was 100$/year ??? Right now they should pay developers to register to their app store, not the other way around

    • shallow ocean shoal

      Thanks, very reasonable in comparison!

  • correct

    While I totally understand what you’re saying Jay, and I agree that Microsoft needs to try harder, there’s more to the story here.

    Insider word is that Nokia and Microsoft have been trying hard for months to get Instagram onto WP. The word is that they’ve both offered A LOT of money and development help to get it onto WP, but Instagram is still holding out.

    I think that what others here have already mentioned is true, that it’s simply Instragram holding out and getting a bit greedy in this situation.

    Specifically, word is that Nokia has been trying extra hard and has been reaching out to Instagram, but no updates on that yet. Hopefully we get some updated news by MWC.

    • migo

      The better option would be for Nokia to release an instagram like program, perhaps one that can take advantage of OIS for some interesting effects, and market it as a competitor.

      For instance, WhatsApp dominates mobile messaging, but I’ve switched to Line simply because it’s better (primarily thanks to the desktop app). Nokia now has the option of doing something as simple as offering in-line Twitter images, that IG yanked support for, to make their solution more appealing.

      • correct

        I see your point, but that still doesn’t solve the problem of no Instagram. It’s not that I like the app, or that it’s meaningful. The reason for having Instagram is that it has many millions of users, and not having it on WP is a deal breaker. Many refuse to get a WP simply because of no Instagram. Sad but true.

        Yes I agree with you on the Whatsapp and Line comparison. The difference being Line is available on almost every platform, and is becoming VERY popular VERY fast. Line is a legitimate competitor to Whatsapp. I had never even heard of Line until recently, when I had found out a whole bunch of my friends had all switched to using Line.

        • correct

          *difference being in comparison to a hypothetical Instagram competitor from Nokia.

          There is also Lomogram for WP which is quite popular, but it’s only for WP and no other platforms.

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