A Week With BB10: What I Missed in my Lumia; and What I Didn’t

| February 16, 2013 | 198 Replies


So as you may know by now I’ve been using the new Blackberry Z10 for the better part of a week now; and it really is an interesting device, rocking BB’s all new BB 10 based on QNX. So here’s a quick run down of what I thought of the whole experience; heavily influenced by the obvious fact that I’ve been a long time Nokia user and more recently a Windows Phone fan.

-I missed the great camera on my 920 (or any Lumia device in fact); the 820 has a borderline acceptable camera- but it does take some great close up shots (due to the drag to focus- similar to iOS’s tap to focus then capture when you like).

-I didn’t miss the lack of profiles in Windows Phone, being more specific BB10 (and all previous BB’s I think) have this great feature where you can put the phone in night mode; which turns off all notifications (and displays a cool clock on the lock screen)- I know that’s like putting the phone on silent but it’s just a lot cooler. What I do mean is the ability to set custom ringtones for every single notification, app or alert; muting what I like and keeping what I like.

-I missed the wireless charging in my 920 (I only got my fatboy pillow two weeks ago); sure it’s a “gimmick” but it’s one that literally changes the way you interact with your phone and how you sleep every night. So if that’s classified as a gimmick give me as many gimmicks as you got.

-I didn’t miss the built in Twitter and Facebook notifications in the Me hub (more on that HERE); however one thing I forgot to mention before is that the BBhub doesn’t support retweeting, so that’s a point against it.

-I missed the built in rooms and MSN (now Skype I guess) chat; sure rooms can be annoying seeing how there is no way to mute only rooms notifications without muting other chat notifications; but I genuinely missed it . Sure BB has BBM but honestly people have moved on (or at least the ones I know), nobody I know still uses BBM (or at least the ones I want to talk to). So for me this one comes down to a matter of pure preference.

-I didn’t miss the lack of notifications at a glance, yes I know live tiles = notifications center blah blah; but let’s face it if that were true Microsoft wouldn’t be working on a notification center would they?

-I missed the updating wallpapers (currently I use Amazing Weather HD notifications plastered over the Bing image of the day; but when I’m bored I switch over to photostream).

-I didn’t miss the lack of a notification light, it is honestly very useful although sometimes annoying; especially on the Z10. Someone out there thought it would be a great idea to alert you of your low battery status by flashing a blinking light every 2 seconds (not exaggerating)-Made with cinemagraph BTW

-I missed the apps, yes as dismal as the Windows Phone app selection may be it’s better than the road BlackBerry went down, quick recap for those who don’t know BB10 has a built in Android app emulator (which runs app in an Android 2.2 skin); to help boost their numbers the weekend before the launch BB offered developers a ridiculous amount of money to port their Android apps into the BB App world; the result was rather than having quality apps the store is filled with a bunch of horribly ported Android skinned apps that crash before running and every-time you try getting something done. I think it’s safe to say Quality>Quantity (or you can go the iOS way and have both).

-I didn’t miss the horrible Windows Phone connector tool for Windows 8; you know the one that makes Zune look amazing in comparison. BB10 uses something called BB Link which is pretty cool; although it does keep popping up an annoying prompt asking me to insert my device’s password.

*At this point I’ve run out of things that I didn’t miss on my 920 so I’ll just stick to things I missed.

-On the related point of apps I also missed the Xbox live service and games (mainly Wordament and Alphajax); BB10 does have it’s own game center for competing with friends (like the one on iOS) but nothing beats Xbox Live.

-I’ve definitely missed Nokia Maps and Nokia Drive (BB Maps whatever they’re provided by) don’t even cover most of the Middle East; so that’s a big fail there.

-I missed the automatic upload to Skydrive service; which had my PC, my Lumia 900 and 920 as well as my iPad (through the Skydrive app) all synced together with latest photos from my devices.

-I’ve missed the much superior mail client on my 920 than the one on the Z10; which can’t even sync folders properly amongst other major issues (a shocker for someone who thought BB was all about email).

-As conceited as this sounds I missed the flashiness and attractiveness of my 920; even though i’ve had it for over 2 months I still get stopped by classmates and asked what phone that is; and I still enjoy taking pictures of it (or with it); while the Z10 does have an attractive design, it’s far from original (and apparently an upcoming HTC look exactly like it).


-Multitasking was not an issue seeing how the Z10 quits any app that hasn’t been used within the most recent 8 (WP8 also supports quick resume for 8 apps) the difference being on BB10 an app like Whatsapp (Android port) won’t give you a notification if it’s closed (not within the most recent 8); something that WP8 (and 7) both do.

-I can’t say I missed Microsoft’s One Note; seeing how BB10 has Evernote integrated into it; as well as the fact that one note is really a headache to use (given the different default folders from each device etc.)

-The weight issue was honestly a non-factor to me; that said the Z10 is VERY light (135 gms) but I honestly can’t see how it would influence the purchase of a phone, sure you can instantly tell the difference in weight but it’s not a “flaw” (in fact the Z10 actually slipped out of my pocket several times without me noticing- except for the clatter on the floor part).

-I’m not sure how to word this one, but I have N9 syndrome all over again; I’m swiping to close apps or to wake the phone, very difficult to overcome this habit.


*I’m sure there are a couple things I forgot to mention but apparently I’m getting old

Category: BB10, Lumia, Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.

Comments (198)

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  1. Doug says:

    I think BlackBerry will beat Windows Phone to number 3 OS position.

    • Viipottaja says:

      Could be, in particular in certain countries and for the immediate foreseeable future. A challenge for BB may well be getting new customers beyond current/recent past BB users, and some of the Linux/hacking kind of crowd.

      • correct says:

        BB is only strong in markets such as Canada and the UK. It’s almost non-existent in the US right now, and not to mention Europe. Only in Indonesia and Africa is BB still doing any decent business mainly from old low end phones.

        • larryg968 says:

          BB has about the same market share in the US as WP. So ur basically saying WP is non existent in america. lol

          I agree

          • shallow ocean shoal says:

            The difference is in the trajectory of course.

            One fell from grace and the other is growing. They will have a new trajectory to compare with the Z and Q.

            • larryg968 says:

              I disagree. If you look at the stats WP has lost market share in Q4.

              So basically, both r losing mkt share and on a downward trajectory. BB is just losing market share faster.

          • correct says:

            Not according to the latest numbers, no. Latest numbers show Windows Phone has a bigger share now in the US.

            • Doug says:

              BlackBerry just recently released Z10 and Q10 is coming in a couple of months. BlackBerry will catch up and beat Windows Phone.

              Windows Phone doesn’t even have a notification center. That’s like dumb/feature phone level.

              • correct says:

                No it will not. Of course all of these discussions are nonsensical, and I’m only mainly responding to these because:

                a.) I am a Nokia fan and I like this blog
                b.) I get bored at work

                If you’re wrong, and I am very confident you will be, of course you won’t admit to it. That is the nature of internet arguments, people troll and act cowardly, and never take responsibility for anything. The nature of internet discussions indeed.

                • correct says:

                  Also a notification center is coming to WP. Microsoft said they simply ran out of time to include it in the initial WP8 release due to the kernel change.

    • Tetlee says:

      I think so too, but not until the Q10 has been released.

      I actually think the Q10 will be a far bigger pull for people back to Blackberry than the Z10 has been.

      • Viipottaja says:

        Other than the remaining, heavily dwindled corporate user base, my sense is the complete opposite when it comes to the “general consumer” market. More and more people don’t want (i.e. prefer to have more screen estate as the trade off) or need the hardware qwerty and as the on Z10 seems to have a stellar (surprised Ali did not comment on it) virtual keyboard, I am guessing the Z10 (and its follow ups) is the one that will make a break it for BB.

        • twig says:

          Looking at the cold reception from Canada consumers perhaps people have moved on. Another story on Kim Kommando radio saying its not a hit for BB. Could even see carriers pull back support.

          • correct says:

            Exactly. Despite reports from Blackberry and closely aligned Canadian carriers that there were first day “record sales” for the Z10, absolutely no specific numbers were mentioned.

            Also in the UK, while we have no facts, that latest word is that the Z10 is selling about the same as the 920, despite the fact that every carrier in UK has the Z10, and this is not true for the 920. Plus, 920 availability is still somewhat limited, especially in certain colours. So that’s a bad sign for Blackberry. Not to mention we’re so close to MWC, where Nokia will command all the attention.

            • migo says:

              You can make inferences based on the comparisons they made. As it was the BB launch in history, you just need to go through the prior launch numbers, find the biggest one and round it up.

          • migo says:

            It’s had a very good reception in Canada. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

            • correct says:

              “Very good” is relative. First day sales may have been high, but will sales continue to be high? There have been no reports of continued sell-outs, and we have not seen the Z10 placing high on any carrier or reseller top sales charts yet.

    • anon2 says:

      I very much doubt that. In my opinion, RIM/BBRY is moving toward a bankruptcy filing within 12 months.

      • noki says:

        let’s make a bet on that?

        • correct says:

          How about we make a bet that WP ends up being the third major ecosystem, and Nokia becomes the clear third major player alongside Apple and Samsung. Then you stop trolling.

          Of course this is a rhetorical question, because I already know the answer to this. Regardless of how many times you’re proven wrong, trolls will always be trolls.

          • noki says:

            I will prommiss.. I said for ever end ever and its does not take much to admit wp is Ok just 10 Million Lumias on one quarter will suffice.

            Will you do the same if for example Z10 sell on average more than the Lumias comparing what is comparable say if Z10>(Lumias/8) this quarter?

          • migo says:

            I don’t see that as a certainty. WP’s advantage was always that it didn’t have Android’s major failings. But since ICS those failings have no longes been present. WP has a much harder time gaining marketshare now than it did 12 months ago against mostly GB phones while Google was working on Honeycomb.

            BB10 also has ae advantage with Android compatibility, while it’s not perfect, if you really need an app, there’s a better chance you’ll get it on BB10 in the short term than WP.

            WP needs to make some big improvements for it to be a shoe in for 3rd ecosystem.

            • correct says:

              Wrong. Still plenty of the same Android problems with ICS. Yes it’s improved over GB, but I’ve still seen lots of S3s out there crashing, freezing, and lagging. ALWAYS lagging. I have yet to use an S3 that didn’t lag.

              This is all mostly idle talk. Every informed person knows the REAL REASON why Android is dominant is Google and Samsung flooding the market, and carriers loving Android and allowing that flooding to happen. In many markets, carriers hold the key to dominant marketshare for an OS.

              Apple is an exception, but Apple has ALWAYS been an exception.

              Nokia now though has made A LOT of carrier deals, and carriers REALLY like WP. So now more carriers are pushing WP into people’s faces, and it’s only a matter of time before WP becomes really big.

              Most consumers don’t care about OS details. All they care about is a great user experience. Regular people know that Apple has a great user experience. Samsung, not so much. Most people are buying Samsungs because so many others are. It’s a sheep herd mentality. And why are so many others buying Samsung? Due to market flooding and carrier pushing techniques.

              Now with WP, and specifically Lumias, they have high user ratings and high user satisfaction. Several surveys show this, and Lumias are highly rated everywhere. On GSMArena, two of the top three user-rated phones are Lumias.

              Big improvements are coming to WP. The kernel change is now complete, so now Microsoft is focusing on big user experience improvements, and part of that includes unifying the APIs between Windows Phone and Windows.

      • migo says:

        They have no debt, and two billion in cash, they might be vulnerable to a hostile takeover bid, but they won’t be filing for bankruptcy any time soon.

        • correct says:

          WRONG troll, wrong. The facts say otherwise:


          Liabilities are considered debt. So YES, Blackberry has debt.

          • Gery says:

            No, that’s just wrong. Debt is a liability, but a liability can also be for example accounts payable as your link states (unpaid invoices for example).
            As your link also states BlackBerry doesn’t have any Short or Long Term Debt which plainly contradicts your statement.
            BlackBerry also has more current assets than liabilities, so they aren’t in the red there.
            And even if they would come to that point in the future (they are currently far away from it with 2.9 billion $ available) they could still pull off some of the stunts that Nokia did like selling their HQ and other buildings and renting them back.
            A lot of people have already said six or twelve months ago that BlackBerry would be bankrupt by now. And look where they’re now, they’ve even grown their cash reserves in the last few quarters and they’ve now successfully launched BlackBerry 10.

            • correct says:

              You need to learn some English. In accounting terms, long term debt is long term debt, and liabilities are liabilities.

              However in plain English, liabilites are considered to be a type of DEBT. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called a LIABILITY. A liability is something negative for the company, a financial burden, which is the SAME thing debt is.

              An unpaid invoice in eyes of creditors is debt!

              Blackberry “grew” their cash reserves through some accounting financial trickery, by shuffling money around. Blackberry also had an adjusted net loss last quarter, and Blackberry warned that they would use up some of their cash reserves this quarter for inventory build-up for BB10.

              • correct says:

                Debt is an obligation owed from one party to another party. An unpaid invoice fits that definition exactly, and so do any loans. Loans are classified under liabilities in financial statements.

              • James says:

                What he said isn’t any any less wrong because of your little semantics game. Tax is often portrayed as an evil thing that should NEVER happen too, but (like liabilities) as part of an ‘overall equation’ that isn’t necessarily the case.
                Fact remains, all up they are in the black, having some outstanding debt doesn’t change that.

                “Blackberry “grew” their cash reserves through some accounting financial trickery, by shuffling money around.”

                You say that like similar thing haven’t been done by Nokia, it’s pretty standard fair.

                • correct says:

                  Nokia made a NET profit last quarter, while Blackberry had a NET loss last quarter. Is that clear enough for you?

                  So yes Blackberry used accounting tricks to “increase” their cash reserves, while Nokia did not. Nokia had cold, hard NET profit which drove up the cash reserves.

                  • James says:

                    “Nokia made a NET profit last quarter, while Blackberry had a NET loss last quarter. Is that clear enough for you?’

                    Whatever made you think you needed to spell that out for me. You seemed to have missed the point, somehow doesn’t surprise me though.

    • Harangue says:

      With just the Z10 and Q10? I really doubt if that is even physically possible. Just look at how many price points Nokia is represented with WP8.

      BB could challenge for the 3rd position, but not with just the two devices they have out now. And they need to do some serious fixing to the OS in areas that matter, battery life being one.

      Not to say that WP is perfect, that itself needs a lot of fixing as well in areas that matter as well.

      • migo says:

        BB is still selling OS7 devices for the lower price point, and will likely have some budget BB10 phones in the next 6-12 months. I wouldn’t bm too concerned that BB will pull an Apple and only have expensive devices.

        Nokia is definitely doing very well though, I’m actually surprised the 710 doesn’t have its own forum on XDA as it’s the best selling single Windows Phone, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lumia 620 doesn’t become the best selling single WP8 device.

    • Hark says:

      I think there’s a lot to like with BB10 and for a time I thought BB had a chance to beat WP to number 3. Even with their falling share of the market BB has about 7% to half of that for WP. So if all the old BB7 people were to upgrade to BB10 and people came back to BB from their iPhones they could do well and WP would be trailing hard.

      But then you realise, especially here in the UK but it’s the case in most markets, that a lot of BB users are kids hooked on BBM. They have bought cheap Bolds and the Z10 is a flagship device going up against the iPhone, the 920, the Galaxy S3. It’s simply too expensive for a large chunk of their market. The Z10 doesn’t do enough to stop people flooding to the iPhone and against the 920 it’ll come down to personal choice. But where they are going to loose is the bottom and middle markets. Apple don’t have a cheap iPhone (unless you count the 4/s), so that market has been all Android and now that Nokia have the 620 WP marketshare so significantly increase. What do BB have? The Q10 that’s coming in a few months, and we’d don’t even know the price. I’m sorry but it doesn’t matter how good the Z10 is, BB’s strategy is at fault here and they just don’t have a chance until they have phones at all price points and that looks to be yet another few months away by which point I think it will just be too late for them.

      So it’s not features, it’s not design, it’s economics that’s going to sink BB.

      • James says:

        Well, they actually have “at least” 6 new devices planned for this year, they’ve said that themselves a few times, we only hear about Q10/Z10 so far, but that’s not the entire picture.
        It’s way too soon to come to some kind of “conclusive” opinion about anything, those who are keen to do so, are motivated by emotion/bias (in most cases, not all).

  2. ***** says:

    Blackberry 10 is finally useable, the older blackberries where shit.

    the thing I hated most was BES. Screw BES! Worst server ever! Now with blackberry 10, you don’t need BEs anymore

    • Dave says:

      Never used one via a BES; now use via a BIS (ie. corporate) and the BB solution is leagues ahead of the Android and iOS “equivalents” – those companies who have made the move are not doing so to improve service.

  3. Dave says:

    Nice, I have a Lumia and I LOVE it, you sure made me want to get a lumia 920 right now! instead of a bb, i’m not interesting in moving anyway from quality phones like Nokia, it was fun to read.

  4. Oleg Derevenetz says:

    Quick tech note regarding multitasking: developer can declare “run_when_backgrounded” permission for an app to make sure that app will always run in background. This is for native apps, but I’m not sure is this supported for Dalvik apps – never ported Android apps to BB. Only native, only hardcore :)))

  5. Sonny says:

    My Sister has a 920 but see keeps on getting a bill for excessive data usage. Does anyone know what might use that much data? she only used nokia maps a couple of times and maybe watched a video on youtube.

    • Aliqudsi says:

      If she’s using Nokia Maps without previously downloading the maps it’s possible that she’s redownloading the same data over and over; so make sure she’s downloaded the full map from the settings.

      The other possibility is the automatic upload to skydrive (if your plan counts upload too) since photos and videos can both be uploaded through it

      • Sonny says:

        Thanks, Do you know of a app which can say how much data you are used? like the one on belle?

        • Viipottaja says:

          AFAIK, some carriers have on or available for download the MS Data Sense app, so check that first. IF not, the carrier may have its own app (but usually they are just a shortcut to their website.. :( ) and you might be able to set up e.g. an alert email when she is getting close the limit.

        • Rich says:

          Nokia counters! Works good enough!

          • Chris W says:

            Counters doesn’t work on the 920, apparently due to it not having a “480×800″ screen.
            My suggestion to the person with excessive data charges is:
            Go to Settings, swipe from right of screen to Apps, Click Background Apps and turn off everything. That’s what i have done, it also increases battery life.

    • anon2 says:

      I doubt it’s the maps. Youtube definitely uses a lot of data, especially if she’s watching the videos in High Definition (HD). The other possibility is that Skydrive is automatically syncing (uploading) all photos taken with the phone.
      I recommend going back to her service provider and asking them to either fix or explain the problem in more detail (it’s what you pay them an exorbitant monthly fee for, so don’t be shy).

    • migo says:

      How much data does her plan include?

    • jdpatl says:

      I did notice that my son’s Lumia 920 used a couple of gigs of data when he updated the OS, but without WiFi configured (or available) at the time of the update.

      Make sure to be on WiFi before running a software update. Maybe this isn’t what you had, but it took my son to 75% of his data plan in a couple of nights…

  6. dss says:

    The camera on the bb resolves a bit more detail than the 920 .. very similar to the iPhone 5.


    • correct says:

      You must be joking right? In all the comparison tests out there that have the Z10 and 920 included, the 920 shows better detail than the Z10. The Z10 camera is very average, like all Blackberry cameras historically.

      • Frankie says:

        indeed it does, i have the BB10 Developer alpha device and the 8MP photos comes with more details under good sunlight. Night pictures is where the 920 excels.

        • correct says:

          So I guess the several comparisons online with the Z10 and 920 included that show the 920 with better daytime detail must be false.


          • correct says:

            So all of a sudden Blackberry now has put a very good camera on a device, contrary to all previous Blackberries, yes?

            • dss says:

              I’ve seen plenty of pictures from the 920… the ones GsmArena took with the z10 have more detail than anything I’ve seen from the 920. Its really not that big of achievement, both are pretty much average, its just that the z10 is a bit better, very similar to the ip5.

              • correct says:

                But you didn’t answer my question. So according to you, then those comparisons must be false, or you’re simply disregarding them. Which is it? Are those comparisons wrong and you’re right? Or maybe you’re wrong and they’re right?

                • dss says:

                  I am always right.. do you even have to ask ? hah no, I just happened to have an eye for image quality man, trust me, the bb10 will get you slightly better details then the 920

                  • correct says:

                    Thanks for proving that you are indeed trolling, since you could not answer my simple question.

                    • dss says:

                      Actually, in context, I said that I disagree with whatever comparisons you had in mind.. I know its hard sometimes, but its okay, I understand :)

                    • correct says:

                      Ah I see. So it’s all simply common sense in this case. You therefore cannot definitively say that the Z10 resolves better detail than the 920, since that is your opinion, and those comparisons came to a different conclusion.


                • Sgt. Schultz says:

                  Get a life “correct”!

            • nn says:

              No, it’s that Nokia didn’t put as good camera into 920 as they previously did with their other phones.

              • shallow ocean shoal says:

                Hey man, could you give me a decoder as to when you choose which name?

                I thought nn was the one for when you misuse statistics?

                • nn says:

                  Sure, I see you are little bit lost, so here is non-exhaustive list of my frequently used alternative nicks:

                  nn – for fact-checked, data-driven analyses of Nokia’s past, present and future

                  Janne – when impersonating Mr. Elop that is rummaging thorough comments on interwebs and tries to sound reasonable

                  correct – same as above but for Mr. Ballmer

                  Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa – for Mr. Elop that knows the truth and wants to troll

                  Mark – for standard Mr. Elop that doesn’t know the truth, but still trying to troll

                  Viipottaja – that actually isn’t me, but 12 years old neighbour using my open wifi when his mother cuts-off his cable connection

              • correct says:

                Try harder troll. The 920 *at worst* equals the top competitors in daylight shots, and destroys them in night-time shots. That of course excludes Nokia camera specialists like the N8 and 808.

                • correct says:

                  Plus this will all soon be meaningless with the MWC unveilings.

                • nn says:

                  Yeah, excluding previous Nokia “specialists”. And that’s the problem – while others are advancing, Nokia under Elop is regressing. So naturally the gap is closing. The best hope we have now is that they will be able to at least replicate own year old phone. Which, given how these hopes turned out last time, I’m not so sure about.

            • Gerii says:

              They have stepped up their game with an f2.2, five elements lens here.
              In my opinion it falls short in software, e.g. there’s no option to set ISO, white balance or exposure compensation.
              Don’t know how it compares to a 920 though. I only know that it’s worse compared to my 808, but that was a given.

    • mirco says:

      Judging from this resolution chart in their comparison tool I have to agree you. However, do we know if Gsmarena has the updated 920 in their database?

      But should we blame the 920 for not being the best everywhere? I say no! In good light conditions it is as good as most of its competitors but in low light and video stabilization it is in another league.

      • Marc Aurel says:

        The update did not really increase resolution, but changed the sharpening and noise reduction settings so that the images appear sharper. Let’s remember that resolution is measurable, but apparent sharpness is subjective.

  7. Viipottaja says:

    Indeed interesting to hear you prefer the WP mail client (it is indeed very nice) as that should be BBs absolute forte.

    • migo says:

      BB had a strong mail service years ago, but since the iPhone 3G there have been numerous better mail apps. It’s really like how people think they will get a great camera on a Nokia, but that’s really not true anymore either.

  8. shallow ocean shoal says:

    You are so right about N9 syndrome. I double tap everything now.

    The biggest annoyance for me from n9 to 900 is the LACK of glancability.

    Before I could look at the screen any time of day and know if I had an email or message. Now I have to press a button all day long to light the screen first. At least the bberry has a blinking light.

    • Viipottaja says:

      What, you need to double tap on stuff on N9???

    • incognito says:

      You haven’t been properly hooked up with the N9 until you catch yourself trying to wake your laptop from sleep by double-tapping its touchpad. If Nokia was allowed to change some parts of the WP, as Elop has claimed, that’s the first thing they should add to WP – that, and the low-power sleeping screen.

      While I can understand that due to WP’s design the swiping magic from the Swipe UI cannot be implanted, there is absolutely nothing stopping the double-tap-to-wake and the LPM screen from being implemented, so either Nokia doesn’t care (which would be dumb) or they don’t have the rights to change diddly squat in the WP.

  9. GordonH says:

    the z10 brings up a feeling about the chance not given to Meego years ago.

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      Are you completely oblivious to the fact that blackberry was already embedded in business and governments all over the world, before the name “meego” was ever made up?

      • GordonH says:

        Yeah I somehow miss out on all those BB sightings and news throughout the years /s
        I was referring to the opportunity that QNX OS got on the z10, it made me feel bad for Meego OS with the DOA status.

  10. Hypnopottamus says:

    I am surprised at BB having mail issues! They were absolute king in that regard. What a shame. To be honest, email rules my world and how I use my device. This is the exact reason why I left Sybian and went to Android. My Symbian mail experience SUCKED!! I’m constantly getting last minute meeting requests for projects and I missed more than a few using Symbian. It didn’t get me fired or anything but I got a few comments. It didn’t even at the time have the ability to do multiple exchange accounts (maybe now it does?). Android worked so much better.

    After moving to WP, not only is syncing flawless,the navigation and experience is better than on Android IMHO. I actually disagree with you about One Note. I think it’s awesome. The formatting and cloud syncing really makes things more productive for me. Also with Sharepoint and Office 360 WP has really made my device a productivity beast. As Yu can see, I use my device primarily for work with occasional web surfing and social networking. WP is perfect for me.

  11. Allawi says:

    These two phones are copy of nokia n9. The software of blackberry is almost the same of n9. With nokia n9 you could just do some tweaks to make the phone works like charm. I made a tweak that make light notification light on with missed call or messages and etc. I have two OS on my n9 and I am trying to put the third one which is windows. It’s really complicated. Thanks

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      You make it sound like it was god’s gift to phones.

      It is a LOT more than “just do some tweaks.” Check the Faster N9 thread.

      The #1 best thing about my 900 now is that I no longer have “Mail not responding” screens.

      808 is still experiencing missed text messages until reboot. Frustrating as fck.

      • Allawi says:

        Don’t be mad. You could do custome firmware for any Nokia phone. When I used to have Nokia n8, me and other group did a lot of changes in the os. I thing there is one for 808. What I am saying, Nokia should keep MeeGo with windows. In the US, people have no clue about MeeGo and Nokia is not popular as other companies.

        • shallow ocean shoal says:

          Some people know about MeeGo…

          Tell me more about this 808 group. I need a Joikuspot fix.

          • Allawi says:

            Go to 808fanclub and check for a solution.

          • niño says:

            might be a bit late to reply but what’s wrong with joikuspot? i also have an 808 and i used to get the problem of joikuspot always disconnecting. after installing the wlan utilities app from betalabs (that was meant for those that had problems connecting to certain routers) it seemed to fix the problem i had and now it never disconnects. if you have the same problem perhaps that might be a fix you could use

            • shallow ocean shoal says:

              It’s completely disabled for certain countries unfortunately. Same thing with the N9, but the N9 was a simple file edit from a terminal prompt to work around it. Don’t see how that’s possible from the 808…

  12. dss says:

    The harmattan UX was/is well ahead of it’s time. Its the best UX for a mobile device with under 5 inch screen out there.. its better than BB10, but at least BB have the right idea. Also, QNX is a modern real-time kernel (very similar to EKA2) and I like that a lot…

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      I agree about harmattan UI.

      Where are the guys working now that thought up Swipe? Are they in NYC?

      • dss says:

        Yes, it was @ 80/20 Studio in NY


        But Peter Skillman had a lot to do with it.. he also did WebOS. If Microsoft are smart, they will do their best to bring him over to the WP team.. but I don’t think he would go for it.

        • shallow ocean shoal says:

          It says they’re part of Square now??? C’mon Microsoft, great opportunity, get the individuals who thought up Swipe first in their minds!

          • Harangue says:

            Since I’ve been trying W8 recently I’d say MS has got some Swipe style ideas of their own that work pretty good as well.

            If they were to implement W8 style of usage into WP you could get rid of the buttons. Although I’d say that the buttons do create a certain assurance for people when navigating through the device.

        • shallow ocean shoal says:

          It says that Skillman is HERE team. Umm, what in the world happened with the Apple HERE app???

          • dss says:

            Well, Microsoft has a pretty good team working on WP.. Albert Shum is a strong asset.

            They just need to get rid of the 3 buttons on the bottom of the screen somehow.

            • shallow ocean shoal says:

              Yeah I don’t like them either.

            • Hypnopottamus says:

              To some extent I disagree about the 3 buttons on the bottom. The Home button and the Search butto are incredibly useful in WP. I’m not sure if you’ve used a WP, but in case you haven’t, long pressing the home button brings up the voice command “app”. I use it all the time, especially when driving. The search button obviously brings up the search”app” but within the search app you can do QR code search, music search (similar to SoundHound), and translate. All that is available in one spot just by pressing the search button no separate apps needed. Also, when you’re using internet, you can highlight a word or phrase and hit search and it looks it up.

              Maybe I’m unimaginative, but I find it hard to implement these functions without the physical buttons.

              • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

                It’s the MeeGo religion saying that you should not have physical buttons!

                (You can move the buttons to the sides of the phone so they don’t count as physical buttons. N9 has three of these on the side of the phone)

              • Hypnopottamus says:

                This discussion has kind of spiraled out if control. Bottom line is that 2 of those “space wasting” physical buttons are actually really useful. Unless there is a way to mimic the functions they provide using swipe not only from the homescreen but from within other open apps, then I don’t think getting rid of them is a very good idea.

                Another thing I find pretty interesting is how at first you heard people complaining about how anything above a 4 inch screen is just too big. And now having 3 physical buttons on the bottom of a screen is “space wasting” and can be better used as screen real estate.

                • correct says:

                  That is the bottom line yes. Some people of course don’t agree with this. Certain physical buttons are very useful and should not be taken away. Blackberry Z10 and Nokia N9 as bad examples in this case.

                  If something works, and works very well as a fundamental function, why change it just for the sake of change?

            • migo says:

              Do what Android did, make them soft buttons, and have future OS updates support more resolutions. That’s a reasonable first step. From there, allow customising the Bing button to be something else.

    • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

      In my books the iPhone user experience was and is far superior to the one offered by N9. To begin with, the N9 didn’t even have a home button.

      That was a huge flaw.

      Claiming that some device has the best user experience is actually quite arrogant if you think it’s the best for everyone.

      • ggus says:

        you don’t need a home button if you can swipe from the bottom up and get to everything.
        This is also why iPhone enthusiasts are so positive about projects like Zephyr (on Cydia on jailbroken devices) to simulate the swipe-up that is actually the same as using the home button.

        No home button means more space for screen, and with swype there’s no loss of functionality

        • shallow ocean shoal says:

          Yes. Too bad that custom swipe app was broken, the one where you could choose what screen you would swipe to depending on which side of the phone you swiped from.

          I had an idea. It was that you could segregate the individual edge that you would swipe from, on the single edge.

          For example, the left side edge of the phone you could cut in half, top half and bottom half.

          They could have made it so if you swiped from the top half of the left edge, you would go to the app immediately behind it. But if you swiped from the bottom half of the left edge, you would go to the home notification screen. Or whatever, customize it for every edge. You have now doubled your swipe interface inputs.

          If anyone implements that, please send some royalties my way.

        • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

          Different people like different things.

          People who liked the N9 claim it was the superior UI but the truth is that Nokia no longer sells the N9. People do but phones with Android and iOS. Not phones with MeeGo.

          Yes, I know some people like to say Elop killed MeeGo. Some people just like all those conspiracy theories.


          • GordonH says:

            “Yes, I know some people like to say Elop killed MeeGo. Some people just like all those conspiracy theories. ”

            Wow you really got it … right?

            Here guys is a proven Elop fanboy for real in existence.

            • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

              MeeGo was killed because it was not a competitive product.


              • GordonH says:

                spoken like someone belonging to the MS religion.

                • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:


                  Android and iOS are far superior compared to MeeGo what it comes to people actually buying those devices.

                  • noki says:

                    “Android and iOS are far superior compared to” WP “what it comes to people actually buying those devices.”
                    there fixed it for you, comparing what can be compared.


                    • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

                      Nokia was selling N9 phones.

                      It was just not good enough.

                      It’s also true that Android and iOS are the best operating systems the mobile world has.

                      It’s a shame it was not possible to use Android in phones manufactured by Nokia.


                    • noki says:

                      “It’s a shame it was not possible to use Android in phones manufactured by Nokia.”

                      heee yes…

                      but you for get there can only be WP

                    • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

                      What would have been the other choice?

                      Using MeeGo with approximately similar unit sales? In that case there should have been ongoing support for Symbian.

                      Even with a full support, Symbian would have continued to collapse. It was just not competitive any longer.

                      With that option they would have been making even more losses.

                    • noki says:

                      Gordon Ramsay is silly

                      Dude you go around in silly circles fighting yourself.

                    • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

                      At least I don’t believe MeeGo was almost destined to succeed just because it had a different UI and a Qt API.

                      Now that would be delusional.

                    • noki says:

                      You know what is delusional??? your self infused narrative.

                      you are a pathetic excuse for a troll, that can only rebate the arguments only you make.
                      but that fits pretty nicely with the silly persona you take fighting of with yourself.


                    • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:


                      Betting on MeeGo would have probably destroyed Nokia since there was no longer a transition path left.

                      Nokia had already lost most of the high end sales they needed for getting some serious MeeGo sales.

                      Without those it was not going to happen.


      • dss says:

        I strongly disagree. You know that back button in iOS positioned in the top left corner ? It fking sucks to press that thing on the 4 inch screen.. even Symbian is better in that regard since the back button is always on the bottom left. Multitasking is pretty weak as well, not only on a system level, but also on a UI level.. that little list with for small icons is not optimal. And on top of it all is that silly home button.. once you use an N9, you just know that physical home buttons are/should be a thing of the past. If you are going to have buttons down there, at least make them call buttons..

        iOS is just not as fluid as Harmattan overall.

        • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

          So you strongly disagree that in my books the N9 user experience was an inferior one?


        • Harangue says:

          There is a reason why Apple hung on to the 3.5 inch screen and it was not because people liked the small form factor. It is because iOS is designed in such a way that you need to interact with the top end of the screen a lot more than on many other devices.

          However, the lack of a home button and doing it all via gestures isn’t really a good I think. A real button that is always there is reassuring in a way and provides a certain ‘emergency exit’ function. Of course, it could be done with a swipe as well, like on Windows 8. But I still feel that the real button should remain in some shape or form.

          • Hypnopottamus says:

            As I mentioned above, a physical button may serve a pretty good purpose depending on the OS. I think people are getting carried away with the swipe UI because of it’s innovation and “coolness” factor. It can/will only work if it fits in w/ the OS’s UI paradigm. On the iPhone, the physical button also serves as the means to activate/utilize siri from any screen. The same is true with WP. Long pressing activates voice command from any screen. The search button on WP is really pretty useful also having the ability to access QR code reader, Translate, Local Scout, and music ID…All in one place without need of a seperate app to open!

            How will you access these features from any screen if WP were to utilize swipe only? There are only so many ways to swipe. I guess you could swipe to reveal a menu with all these options/functions and then select the function. But that defeats the slick easy-to-use purpose of swipe. If you have to swipe then select, wouldn’t it be easier to just hit a button? The whole point of swipe is to simplify user interaction with the device, which makes MeeGo so slick and innovative.

            Again, having a buttonless swipe only device would work only if the OS’s UI lends itself to it. Meego and BB UI’s are exclusively BUILT AROUND SWIPING. There are certain functions (depending on the OS) that might be able to incorporate swipe, but if it is easier and follows the OS’s UI paradigm, then why get rid of buttons just to get rid of them? If it is a buttonless interface you want, then get a BB, Jolla, or MeeGo. But don’t advocate utilizing swipe or having no buttons on an OS that isn’t built around swiping just because you happen to like it better. It has to work with the OS, not handicap it by removing things that add to the functionality of device.

          • Hypnopottamus says:

            Apologies. After reading my above post, I realized that it might be construed as responding directly to you. My post was a general comment not aimed directly at you. I’m not accusing you per se of “advocating utilizing swipe.” I was just trying to add to the conversation.

          • migo says:

            I found the home button to be a liability, mainly for games. If the power button were considered the home button that would be fine, but it’s better off on the side rather than the front.

  13. shallow ocean shoal says:

    Hey does anyone know what Kontori is working on now? Haven’t seen an update from that dude in a long time, really enjoyed his writing.

    • Jiipee says:

      Last time I checked linkedin, he was still working on smartphone — forwarding cetner. In other words, new stuff for wp.

      • shallow ocean shoal says:

        Man I throw you guys such a huge bone. Look what I found. I’m just not appreciated around here.

        Look what I found on the Internet sitting right in front of us. It says right at the top of his page:

        “Nokia Internet Tablet Development”

  14. migo says:

    That’s rather odd about notifications. Is that just for android ports or all apps?

  15. Gerii says:

    “-I missed the automatic upload to Skydrive service; which had my PC, my Lumia 900 and 920 as well as my iPad (through the Skydrive app) all synced together with latest photos from my devices.”

    Doesn’t the Dropbox/Box integration do the same in BB10? I haven’t used any of them as I’m uncomfortable with all my data sitting in the cloud/US, but I think it should work that way on BB10.

    “-As conceited as this sounds I missed the flashiness and attractiveness of my 920; even though i’ve had it for over 2 months I still get stopped by classmates and asked what phone that is; and I still enjoy taking pictures of it (or with it); while the Z10 does have an attractive design, it’s far from original (and apparently an upcoming HTC look exactly like it).”

    I guess my red Z10 should be flashy enough when it comes ;)
    The L920 also isn’t that original anymore, as it has already been used by the N9 and some other Lumias. At least in my opinion.

  16. MiniMe says:

    What I miss in WP is Flash support that’s why all the flash streaming websites I use on a daily basis do NOT WORK!!! All of them have apps for iPhone, crappy and laggy at times but basic functionality work. Not a single one has an app for WP!
    Android has flash. BB10 has full flash support all these websites work very well.

    So yeah I am switching to BB10 now.

    • noki says:

      Yeah the browser in bb10 is one of the best browsers I have found.

      Mail is great , the only thing missing is really the swipe to next mail…(but I get how come they don’t have it, swipe to next mail sometimes makes you miss a lot of them and company’s don’t like that)

    • migo says:

      Yeah, while I hated flash for how a bunch of crappy websites were made with it, it’s still pretty ubiquitous, and flash support is what made my PlayBook a viable laptop replacement. Flash being removed from Android as of JB is also quite frustrating at times.

  17. correct says:

    I understand now why many of the Symbian religion or Meego cult members like Android and Blackberry so much. Android is very much like the Symbian religion, a lot of fanatics there. Also Blackberry is close to the Meego cult, with “crackberry” addicts as they call them.

    • correct says:

      So we have Symbian, Meego, Android and Blackberry … there is a strong sense of cult and religion with them and their fans, everything else is irrelevant.

      Apple, Microsoft and the Nokia now, they all care more about user experience.

      • migo says:

        Apple isn’t a religion?

        • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:


          Some people talk about that but it’s really just a joke. Apple has been providing the industry with some really nice UI features with their products. They seemed to care about the user experience and while even Apple had their share of failures, they rarely started to ship low quality products just to be able push down the price.

          At the same time even people who have been working for Nokia have stated that Symbian became a religion and the company was compromised because of this faith.

          It’s important to be able to understand the difference between liking some product and believing the product is superior no matter what. I understand that and I can be honest about the products.

          Symbian was a religion and Nokia really needed the reality check Nokia had in Feb 11. 2011.

          • yasu says:


            Oh really?

            Some people talk about that but it’s really just a joke. Apple has been providing the industry with some really nice UI features with their products. They seemed to care about the user experience and while even Apple had their share of failures, they rarely started to ship low quality products just to be able push down the price.

            Some Apple customers are willing to get in line to get their stuff. Some even camp for days! Seems pretty religious behaviour to me : http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385502,00.asp

            They are a great many youtube videos lampooning that behaviour. It’s so mainstream that Samsung even put that on a mass market series of adds.

            Some more : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_evangelist#Comparison_with_a_cult.2Freligion

            “Apple Provides Fans With Religious Experience, Brain Scans Reveal” : http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385502,00.asp

            Looks pretty religious to me. Even science seems to think so.

            Some more : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_evangelist#Comparison_with_a_cult.2Freligion

            At the same time even people who have been working for Nokia have stated that Symbian became a religion and the company was compromised because of this faith.

            You conveniently omit to mention that Symbian was at the time the main breadwinner, and that plans were in motion to move Symbian to mid/low, with Meego/Maemo (high) and Symbian (mid/low) with Qt on top.

            It’s important to be able to understand the difference between liking some product and believing the product is superior no matter what.

            Couldn’t agree more. Maybe you should go and tell that to your Apple using brethen that tore a new one to Steve Wozniak who dared mention that Apple was falling behind : http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/155859/wozniak-apple-now-somewhat-behind-in-smartphone-features

            I understand that and I can be honest about the products.

            At least you believe so.

            Symbian was a religion

            That’s a belief. See what what I did there?

            Symbian was an OS with which Nokia was the number one smartphone vendor and a profitable company. That’s a fact. Anybody with access to a web browser can verify that.

            and Nokia really needed the reality check Nokia had in Feb 11. 2011.

            And boy, they did : profits gone, credit and debt ratings down the toilets, sales collapsing, assets being sold to shore up cash, user base fractured, shrinking distribution channels, logistics in disarray, and despite the fact that they did receive $1 billion in patents payments from Apple and $1.25 billion from their strategic partner, they posted two years of losses.

            But at least, the blogosphere seems to like their new Windows Phone phones.

            P.S. : You forgot the “Yes?” in your post.

          • correct says:

            Exactly, there is your answer migo.

            Apple provides products with an EXCELLENT user experience. You trolls may hate it, techies and nerds may hate it, competitors may hate it, but that doesn’t change the fact that the iPhone is EASY to use, intuitive, simple, and overall is a pleasant user experience.

            If Apple was to break or mess up this user experience than Apple fans would be up in arms.

            Now yes Apple is not perfect. They messed up with their maps release, and a lot of Apple fans were pissed off because of that. Apple’s CEO made a public apology for that and publicly listed alternative mapping solutions.

            Did Nokia ever do that with Symbian? Did Nokia’s former CEOs ever publicly apologize that Symbian was a mess in terms of user experience? No. Of course had that happened, the Symbian religion members would be all trolling on Nokia blogs regarding that. Something different happened, and that was Elop’s burning platform announcement.

            Yes it was poorly handled by Elop, but the intent was sincere. The intent was to drop Symbian, and stop wasting valuable company resources on Symbian, and to quickly focus on a much better OS in terms of user experience.

            All of the Symbian religion members, and Meego cultists can hate and troll all they want, but the point is Nokia is, and has been for the last two years with Lumia phones, focused on bringing a great USER experience to people, just like Apple.

            Nokia is still getting hated on and unfairly criticized from Symbian religious members, Meego cultists, Fandroids, Crackberry fans, clueless bloggers, and shills from competitors because Nokia is not bending over backwards for these people, nor should Nokia do that.

    • Harangue says:

      You should check comment sections of certain websites for WP fans, those guys can get out of control just like iOS/Android fans and I even happen to like WP.

      • noki says:

        pay no attention to this “religious” narrative it contributes nothing to facts

      • correct says:

        Really? I’ve checked the major Microsoft and WP fan sites, and there is A LOT of anti-Microsoft and coincidentally anti-Nokia bashing and hating going on.

        Doesn’t sound like a religion there to me. In fact, it almost seems like a loud minority of fans of other OSes are bashing WP, Microsoft and Nokia on these WP fan sites.

        • Harangue says:

          Reading it back I might have worded it a little wrong, I meant; check the comment sections of some major websites and you can see the WP fans in full force there as well.

          One example is The Verge (I know, I know :P) and the 920 review. Some people went out of control to bash the review, eventhough the review did deserve some criticism it didn’t need the rabid WP fanboys that were commenting there. Or rather ranting it out there.

          Doesn’t change the fact that there is indeed a lot of Anti-MS sentiment or even MS hatred out there in the tech world. It seems Apple can do no wrong whereas MS can do no right. Although I must say there is a slight change happening. Apple is getting some critisism for the dated look and feel of iOS and the lack of ‘real’ innovation in the OS. That critique is legit IMHO. Just like some WP and W8 critique is definitely legit.

          • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

            Apple is getting lots of criticism and for a reason. While they have the best user experience there is, for people actually just using the phones, they have some areas they certainly should try to improve the quality of their products.

            For me the look and feel of iOS works fine. At the moment most people ranting about it are those who would like to see continuous revolution instead of evolution. When iOS was released, it had a great UI. Why change something that works? Adding widgets might be a bad idea. Removing the home button would probably ruin the UI.

            Apple should improve the App Store UI. They had quite nice UI for it but it was messed up in iOS 6.0.

            I would like to see those real Apple users claiming that Apple can do no wrong. At the moment people saying that are mostly those who use some other OS and dislike Apple because they think Apple makes too much profits.

            Maybe I should read more The Verge?

            • twig says:

              They don’t have the best user experience for phones, I used an Apple. Apple apps are not as good looking as Windows. Apples screen is boring compared to Windows customization. Apple charges an arm and a leg for everything. Nokia crushes Apple’s camera and video ability. Apple is just boring and lacks innovation.

              • Gordon Ramsay potkii takaosaa says:

                There are no single phone that has the best user experience for everyone.

                It’s great to see that you actually prefer WP over iOS. Maybe Nokia is going to succeed with the Lumia phones.

                Actually you just repeated what I was saying. Phones made by Apple are for people who just use the phones and don’t customize that much. And you also dislike Apple because you think they charge too much money. Just as i said in my message.

                About the video abilities. Apple has a pretty good camera in the iPhone. You can take low light pictures and you can use it for shooting some video. It may not be the best in everything but what Nokia should learn from Apple is the overall quality. Apple ships very balanced products you can extend with apps.

                I actually have an camera Application for my iPhone 4S that takes “PureView” pictures with pretty much same quality as the 808 has in 8MP mode. There is a catch, but it’s not really a long exposure, it’s not about losing that 8MP resolution, you don’t need a tripod and it really does the pixel binning like the 808 does. It’s extremely useful to getting to know how there wonderful apps really work and what possible on mobile.

                That’s how the industry will get better products in the future.

            • James says:

              Believe it or not, there are people out there that use iOS & a couple of other platforms (for various form-factors).

  18. James says:

    Most boring/predictable thread yet, same tards posting the same mind-numbing rubbish >.>

  19. twig says:

    BB stands for bye, bye. Too little, too late. Bye, bye blackberry.

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