Nokia, NSN and Jolla At MWC 2014, + First year of Jolla’s Journey from the eyes of Jolla’s CTO

| January 11, 2014 | 95 Replies

Screen Shot 2014-01-11 at 16.31.56 Screen Shot 2014-01-11 at 16.32.05

Towards the end of February, everyone will be looking forward to some big mobile news. From February 24-27th, watch out for what Nokia, NSN and Jolla have in store.

WP8.1 and the new Nokia Lumia WP8.1 handset announcements? Something new from Jolla too?

http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/2014-exhibitors/

Also, Chief Technology Officer at Jolla, Stefano Mosconi writes up some thoughts on Jolla’s first year long journey.

http://stezz.blogspot.fi/2014/01/a-journey-of-year-more-or-less.html

We will be in Barcelona again for MWC (want to meet us? Contact our press dept. ;) ) and besides eating tapas and drinking good wine and beer we will demo some of the cool new things we have been working on.

Cheers Janne for the tips!

 

Tags:

Category: Event, Jolla, Nokia

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Janne

    Will we see Normandy? Or perhaps first Microsoft “Lumia” devices?

    Will Jolla reveal more of their global strategy? Some exiting TOH news?

    Good product times! :)

    • Svedu

      And what if D&S at that time is no longer part of Nokia? Would Nokia still present D&S related products and services?

      Is it even likely that transfer happen before that? No further update has come on the timetable so I guess that between today and last day of march is still valid.

      • Janne

        Reality probably is, whatever happens and when, the preparations for an event like this are already very far along and things like that probably won’t massively affect them. I think even if D&S sale closes in time, a Nokia/Microsoft presence at MWC could still be some kind of a hybrid.

        It was some weeks ago when China and four other countries were still said to be holding their approval that is necessary for the completion of the deal, according to Nokia. Will all those approvals come in time for MWC? Who knows.

        Of course, it is possible Nokia/Microsoft are preparing two prongs for MWC. One in case the approvals don’t come until then and they have to maintain business as usual pretences, and another in case the deal is completed before then. It might affect the announcements somewhat of course.

        • Svedu

          “holding their approval that is necessary for the completion of the deal, according to Nokia”

          Concerning China, I have read that somewhere. But dont think it was Nokia saying that, but more like a rumor. Do you have a link to a statement from Nokia saying that China + some other countries are delaying the approval of the transaction?

  • twig

    They need to get the deal done, its too confusing for consumers in their buying decisions right now and not benefiting either company. Do the deal and in countries that have not approved yet, run it as a separate LLC owned by both on paper, Nokia owning $1 share.

    • Janne

      I wonder how many average buyers actually care about such things. Maybe in the high-end? Well, I guess we’ll see when the Q4 numbers hit.

      Personally I think a larger issue for Nokia is that high-end only has 1520. They need to bring up 9xx and 1020 to that level to have a smaller-screen choice and also to get the best out of the 1020.

      Today they really only have Lumia 1520 in the high-end. It is a great, balanced product, but bringing up 9xx and 10xx would complement that line-up.

      Lumia low and mid-ranges are great.

      • arts

        low end is really due for a proper refresh. Moto G is a great product, and the nokia 525 loses out in more than one area.

        I really hope there is something coming which can really compete with the moto g.

        • Janne

          I’m not so sure that is all that relevant in the low-end, masses wise. Well, we shall see how Moto G sells in the grand scheme of things.

        • Bloob

          Isn’t Moto g at least $100 more expensive everywhere they are both available?

        • twig

          I bought the 520 for $49 off contract. What’s Moto selling for?

  • burning nkia jumper

    Good Jolla has appeared. Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market. We need Sailfish device from Nokia.

    • Janne

      Year or two ago we joked that some MNB posters were paid for by a Korean PR department.

      This time, by the tone of the message, it seems the PR department has defected North.

      • burning nkia jumper

        Well, that would be good in financial aspect, I don’t know how in other aspects. Whatever.

        I do believe Nokia device with Sailfish will be more then hot staff. Especially when STE failed to support HW, it is great pity Jolla do not use NovaThor platform.

        If we are with this: note well that Jolla has switched from STE NovaThor HW to completely different one and created Jolla mobile HW from the scratch (what means also making all Sailfish OS adaptations like eg a new kernel, software adaptations, software adaptations) so literally starting from the beginning IN WHAT TIME?? 1 month! Only ONE month they needed to rebuild a new device for a new hardware which they have never seen before, and also to find proper hardware etc.etc.

        Why am I about this: because this shows in what time Nokia having own hardware could have fully working hot stuff mobile, and even could use Harmattan code as UI on the top of the Sailfish, they can work together. However I think now Sailfish is more matured then Harmattan, and also that would mean Nokia would have Android ready device, as Jolla can use Android software.

        In this case it is not about to be payed by somebody, but about vision of progress and filling connection with Nokia brand still yet.

        I hope you can get it properly.

        • Janne

          More I was referring to “Good Jolla has appeared. Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

          I think that sounds, well, a bit… weird, really.

          (I have nothing against Sailfish devices from Nokia, although I find them and success of them unlikely.)

          • burning nkia jumper

            That is what they were talking about Android in similar stage of progress. In previous year it was “Jolla will never prepare a mobile” – and here we have a device.

            Time will tell.

            • Janne

              I don’t know. Some people said Jolla will never make a phone (they are 12 months late from their initial statements in 2012), but I wouldn’t have thought that.

              It is one thing to believe Jolla makes a phone, even two or three or more phones. I believed that they would make one and I can believe they will make more.

              But believing Jolla and Sailfish “is the bright future of mobile market”? Comparable to Android’s success story, even? That takes some real stretch of imagination.

              I hope Jolla succeeds in finding a market for itself, but I have a really hard time seeing what their differentiation is to become the “bright future of mobile market”.

              • Shaun

                Janne, you’re such a defeatist.

                Jolla have a tough fight on their hands but the general direction they’re headed in of an open, community involved platform *IS* a bright shining light in a world where other platforms are closed silos.

                • Janne

                  If you read burning nkia jumper overall, I think you’d agree his views on Jolla are not really very realistic – like calling it the third largest software ecosystem. Even if some of his notions might be based on some odd way of looking at things, me pointing out that is hardly defeatist.

                  Reality is, Jolla at the moment are pretty much irrelevant – and definitely not the only somewhat open mobile OS development. None of them (Jolla included) are fully open, but in any case there are more than just Jolla that are somewhat open.

                  Now, can this change? Definitely. I hope so. I’d like nothing bette than to see Jolla succeed and be the next Android as burning nkia jumper also suggested it is on the way of becoming.

                  Do you think Jolla is the third largest mobile software ecosystem today and also in the same place Android was in its own history at similar age? I doubt disagreeing with that can be called defeatist.

                  Anyway, we’ll see. I’ll bow out from the crazy exchanges with burning nkia jumper.

                  • Shaun

                    I’m not concerned with nkia jumper overall’s views Janne. nkia jumper overall and RR have their views which may veer off into the realms of fantasy or follow a sociopathic need to be negative at anything that isn’t Apple/WP/Nokia/Ben&Jerrys.

                    You’re generally level headed and more measured in your views and don’t just repeat “x is doomed” at any opportunity.

                    However, the “Church of Market Share” and ecosystem arguments are totally irrelevant and old thinking.

                    Hardware and OS software is commoditised at this point. You just go to an ODM in China and get them to whip up an OHA compatible handset and then fork Android on it or use libhybris and pure Linux. That’s why there’s so many small companies proliferating just now like Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile, Cyanogen, Firefox OS, Indiephone, Fairphone…. the list goes on.

                    You don’t have to be the third anything. 17th will do for some of these companies. Ecosystems are being smashed and more so HAVE to be smashed. Incumbents HAVE to be disrupted.

                    Jolla’s success obviously has to be measured financially as developers don’t live on fresh air but market share and number of apps in a closed ecosystem are not what they are about and basing any argument in which those are imperatives seems like totally missing the point of what these smaller companies and Jolla are hoping to do.

                    Are Jolla safely there yet, wherever ‘there’ is? No, but FFS they’ve only been out with an actual product for a month and it’s BETA.

                    • Janne

                      I’m not concerned with nkia jumper overall’s views Janne.

                      You should be concerned with them when responding to my message that was a response to burning nkia jumper – and I clarified to you that it was not just a response to a single message of his, but an entire “thread” of recent messages. burning nkida jumper’s views and presentation of those views is paramount to understanding what and why I responded to him. Otherwise you’ll just misunderstand me.

                      nkia jumper overall and RR have their views which may veer off into the realms of fantasy or follow a sociopathic need to be negative at anything that isn’t Apple/WP/Nokia/Ben&Jerrys.

                      Comparing RR and bunring nkia jumper isn’t fair. RR clearly has a much higher level of knowledge and contribution on MNB, no matter his well known anti-social behaviour.

                      You’re generally level headed and more measured in your views and don’t just repeat “x is doomed” at any opportunity.

                      I should hope so.

                      However, the “Church of Market Share” and ecosystem arguments are totally irrelevant and old thinking.

                      Well, there’s a bold statement if I ever saw one. I wonder if you aren’t a few years or even decades early with that.

                      Hardware and OS software is commoditised at this point. You just go to an ODM in China and get them to whip up an OHA compatible handset and then fork Android on it or use libhybris and pure Linux. That’s why there’s so many small companies proliferating just now like Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile, Cyanogen, Firefox OS, Indiephone, Fairphone…. the list goes on.

                      Sure, hardware has been commditized. And yes, you can use Linux in its various forms to create products in no time, so I agree that has been commiditized. But that’s where it stops, really. The mobile application ecosystem has been commiditized into Android. And that’s why the opportunity for someone like Jolla, or Ubuntu, or even Firefox actually seems quite distant. I don’t see how that supports your argument at all. Yes, they can pump out phones with much smaller capital investment than was required years ago, but how to launch a new OS – and make a business out of it – into a market where the OS has not only been commoditized but made free and a dominant ecosystem of Android reigns the application side.

                      Why does anyone need Jolla?

                      …let alone, how all this translates into “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”, which was burning nkia jumpers argument which I responded it.

                      I could somewhat agree had the argument been “commoditized Chinese hardware and bastardized, free Linux variants are the not-so-bright future of mobile market”, but the argument instead was: “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

                      You called countering that defeatist. I should call you a lunatic at the same logic, I guess.

                      You don’t have to be the third anything. 17th will do for some of these companies. Ecosystems are being smashed and more so HAVE to be smashed. Incumbents HAVE to be disrupted.

                      Even that third, or 17th something will require software and services to run. You don’t have to be third anything if you sell commoditized hardware that runs Android software. That is true, although differentiation may be hard. The ecosystem comes from the first ecosystem, you leech from it. But, really, in mobile there is no open ecosystem outside of the dominant ecosystems – you can tap into Android, but you can’t truly be part of it unless you are Android.

                      Now, of course, increasingly there is cloud. Maybe HTML5 or whatever in some distant future is the ecosystem outside of any platforms, in which case the future you talk about could truly be here, but then… even then… how is “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market”? Wouldn’t the bright future of mobile market then be HTML5? And today, to benefit from cloud on mobile, really, what you need are apps that connect to that cloud.

                      Jolla’s success obviously has to be measured financially as developers don’t live on fresh air but market share and number of apps in a closed ecosystem are not what they are about and basing any argument in which those are imperatives seems like totally missing the point of what these smaller companies and Jolla are hoping to do.

                      Me, even RR agree that Jolla could survive on a niche, if they can find one. Nobody here is disagreeing that an agile small company couldn’t make money of mobile devices. I suggested they become the Fluke of mobile, make great tools for builders, tinkerers, sysadmins and the like, N900 type of devices. There surely would be a market for pocket Linux computers. Small, but constant. They could also cater to hobbyists wanting to build things around mobile devices, be the best tinkerers mobile phone provider.

                      None of us here really knows what Jolla is trying to do. Maybe even Jolla doesn’t quite know what they are trying to do, business-wise. Often statups try different things and adjust as they go. They have told us they are aiming big, so it seems like they are trying to build something mainstream in the longer run. But you tell us? What is Jolla trying to do? What is their business case that leads to them being the “the bright future of mobile market”? Or in fact, as the burning nkia jumper argued, leads to Jolla already *today* beung the bright future of mobile market?

                      I sure as heck don’t know. So, I’m keeping my estimates on Jolla’s outlook cautious, but of course optimistic as I wish them well. I don’t see how pointing out the sheer lunacy of such a statement (“Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market”) is defeatist though. If there is some reality I’m missing, then feel free to point it out. Other than that, I think I’m through commenting on burning nkia jumper and people defending his views. it is just so far from reality that it makes RR look like reasonable.

                      Are Jolla safely there yet, wherever ‘there’ is? No, but FFS they’ve only been out with an actual product for a month and it’s BETA.

                      Then for FFS sake stop calling me defeatist simply because I countered the argument that “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

                • Janne

                  Janne, you’re such a defeatist.

                  Jolla have a tough fight on their hands but the general direction they’re headed in of an open, community involved platform *IS* a bright shining light in a world where other platforms are closed silos.

                  By the way, Shaun, why do you think most Jolla contributions on MNB for the past three months or so have been mine?

                  Just because I’m a realist, doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate teams and companies trying to disrupt the status quo with new things.

                  I do. It may seem ironic, but for similar reasons I have also rooted for WP. Sure, it is closed, but it is disrupting iOS and Android in a way that I feel benefits the overall market.

                  Same with Jolla, for very different reasons. I do wish them well and hence I have done my small bit to help their early days through blog contributions here and buying the device.

                  It just won’t turn me into a drooling cult-member that some seem to have become.

                  • Janne

                    And just to clarify:

                    “WP. Sure, it is closed, but it is disrupting iOS and Android in a way that I feel benefits the overall market.”

                    Word disrupt may be too big here. But the point is, I think it is great that a third ecosystem is poaching its way and making sure we are beyond a duopoly.

                    • burning nkia jumper

                      Jane I really respect your arguments and your position/believes/POV.

                      I think a discussion is about humans which can have an different POV.

                      I think that utilising with one device possibilities of full Linux OS+software and Android software makes Jolla DEVICE the 3rd ecosystem because can use (counting combined together:

                      + Sailfish SW(SoftWare)

                      + Android SW

                      + MeeGo and MeeGo ports to Sailfish

                      + Symbian ports to Sailfish

                      + SW in RPM which can be compiled for Sailfish unlike for any other OS

                      + a number of SW for Linux which can be used with Jolla.

                      Please note also that the ecosystem is also about people: Linux enthusiasts and users, devs (also from abandoned/orphaned Symbian, Meltemi, Harmattan), former Nokia customers (disappointed with current Nokia’s approach, and in this number all those preferring other devices then the N9 and all those hardly waiting for N9 and begging for N9 successors), and last but not the least: just new Jolla customers who are not in mentioned already above groups.

                      Jolla is a smartphone device, and also it is a pocket computer already. The first possibility/option is for mass customers, the second possibility/option is for more advanced users and devs and for geeks I suppose. You have mentioned, Jane, “a niche of pocket computer and tools” several times – but they are already there by the design and by the OS. The question of market needs and devs response is what will happen further (as Shanu said devs work for money not for air – I fully agree). I also remember how, not so long time ago, the Android software was by hobbyists only, but “serious IT specialists” were “not for such un-serious things”, now there is quite an opposite situation. And this is very similar to Jolla situation.

                      But Jolla advantages are significant is some aspects: full Linux what gives entirely wider perspective, Linux is more safe (no OS is entirely safe), open software attracts many individuals and also companies, Jolla independence from other big companies, maturity and stability of policy and staff+mgmnt towards to one specified direction, openness for changes and new ideas, cooperation/participation/contribution with/for the MER open project (which gives hope that even if Jolla would fail then all efforts will not be lost but will be continued in/by a next Jolla-like project/business)… Among others advantages that are important for me – and have appeared good foundations of current success and further growth.

                      What they, Jolla, have already made is a success I think and the bright light for evolution of mobile devices also. There were other attempts before also, but only Jolla and Sailfish MeeGo are the firsts which gained this stage and this kind of success IMHO and this global range. With this kind of substance and this money and this kind of community and this kind of proliferation and this approach – as Jolla does/have/represents.

                      So far Jolla is using all opportunities, and avoid threats I think.

                      They have: knowledge, technology, experience, selected staff, community & support, investors, signed contracts and new product which sales.

                      Of course they could fail, like in every enterprises, but for me this is very unlikely ATM.

                      Every business at competitive market have built in thinking about becoming more and more big. This is what investors buy. Otherwise this is not any business but something else.

                      And that (among others) make me thinking Jolla is a success and bright light for mobile market. I don’t think everybody must agree with me – there is a lot of space for different thinking then my way.

                      BTW: did you now Microsoft future Windows Phone will have built in the compatibility layer which will allow launching Android software exactly in the same way as Jolla can do this today? But Jolla already has it, while Microsoft must start from the scratch. Surprised? Try to imagine how Nokia shareholders will be surprised when they will get know, and how happy – perhaps? Can you imagine consequences at various levels of everything?

                    • Janne

                      burning nkia jumper: I think it is better we respectfully agree to disagree.

                      I basically zones out the moment you suggested Symbian apps would somehow magically make it to Linux.

                      I gather it that you have never coded for Symbian. I have.

                      Anyway, a lot wishful thinking about open Linux there. It is not very uncommon, but also mostly an unfulfilled promise.

                      Jolla faces tough odds. I wish them well.

                    • burning nkia jumper

                      “it is better we respectfully agree to disagree.”
                      -> I am very glad of this, and full of respect for you.

                      “I basically zones out the moment you suggested Symbian apps would somehow magically make it to Linux.”
                      -> Have I ever said any rubbish like this? I think there is nothing like this in the real world. I only think that: (1) some Qt written projects can be quite easy ported to Sailfish IF a particular project is worth of such an effort eg because it has been making money with Symbian and a dev can/suppose to continue to earning money with this. (2) In theory could be possible to create a Symbian Compatibility Layer for Sailfish, analogical like Android Compatibility Layer so Alien Dalvik for Sailfish. However that would require somebody to do this and that would be a horrible work, money and time – so it is very improbable, even if technical issues would be solved. More reasonable would be to start fromthe scratch with Sailfish SDK. Yes, I have said something like this, but I also added at the end something like “I doubt if it will happen ever” or something similar in the context of that post. That was only an idea, but the improbable one.

                      Perhaps (1) or (2) has somehow introduced misunderstanding – I’m sorry. And to be clear: no, there is no any magical way to transfer any soft from one OS to another OS, this is something that requires lots of dev’s work and knowledge. It is hard work, sometimes work itself or effects can be magical, but this not any magic.

                      “Anyway, a lot wishful thinking about open Linux there. It is not very uncommon, but also mostly an unfulfilled promise.” -> I’d like to quote from memory this: “If you want people to build a ship, then don’t force then to take tools and raw materials, but teach/learn them to dream about open see…” Yes, not everything is possible, not just now and not in shape one would like to see it just now – but this hope is what motivates to cross next and another line, to move further forward. In a way it was the wishful thinking that has built all the civilisation we have now. It is a journey and I am just sailing forward. That is all. Let’s agree we can disagree and still talk to each other – Nokia connecting people ;)

                      Jolla faces tough odds. I wish them well.

                    • Janne

                      burning nkia jumper: I think it is great that people dream.

                      Sometime dreams come true. Without dreams, they rarely do.

                      I have nothing against that. I applaud it. I am merely balancing the hubris with a little reality. :)

                      Fair enough, I think we can agree to disagree on the rest!

                      As always, I wish Jolla well and very likely will buy their second phone too. I like to support diversity in the mobile market. Duopoly is bad. Diversity good.

                      Let’s hope diversity is the bright future of mobile market. ;)

                  • Shaun

                    “By the way, Shaun, why do you think most Jolla contributions on MNB for the past three months or so have been mine?”

                    Because nobody else can be bothered to put up with the crap that would get thrown at them from your best mate RR and there are plenty of more sites where you don’t get constantly harassed?

                    • Janne

                      Thank you for that. I won’t bother with more then as it would be pointless.

                      Let’s rather discuss burning nkia junper’s analysis of Jolla. That is more helpful.

        • Random Random

          Well.

          With Android they wouldn’t have had the need for making all the adaptation work.

          However nice to hear that the switch was not the reason for Jolla to ship unfinished phone. They just don’t have enough people for the task.

          • Shaun

            Right, because the world needs another Android phone manufacturer.

            • Janne

              Some think Nokia should have become another Android manufacturer. In fact, quite a few people.

              I think that could have worked out as a business, but I wouldn’t want that for Nokia or Jolla. Duopoly was bad with Wintel/Mac, we don’t need or want a Google/Apple duopoly for the next two decades.

              So, upwards and onwards WP and whomever cab sustainably chip away from the status quo. Three competitors makes it easier for fourth competitor to join in than a dominance of two.

              • Shaun

                Nokia have their own hardware competancy such as cameras that would have made them a formidable Android manufacturer to take on Samsung. I totally agree with those people who suggest Android would have been a better choice than WP if the choice was between those two. But that’s the past and not worth debating.

                Jolla don’t have the hardware clout Nokia have to differentiate so for them it’s got to be about software. Using Android wouldn’t help there.

                • Random Random

                  Nokia didn’t exactly know how to make slim phones back in 2010 so jumping to Android wouldn’t have been that easy after all.

                  In 2011 Samsung already had a huge head start on Android and Nokia would have been the underdog anyway. Starting to sell vanilla Android phones in H2 2011 if they wanted to do that or forked Android phones in very late 2011 probably missing the Christmas sales.

                  • Shaun

                    For the thicko at the back of the class.

                    “But that’s the past and not worth debating.”

                    • Janne

                      Stop bullying RR, people.

                      Not classy.

                    • Carbontubby

                      Me ‘ead ‘urts :)

                      The past has is directly relevant to the present and the future. Just look at Nokia’s numerous screwups from 2006 onwards to see how they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

                    • Shaun

                      Oh come on, he didn’t even read my comment and went off again down RR’s version of memory lane.

                      The reason it’s not worth debating the past is because RR always chimes in with some ridiculous version of the past that is usually unverifiable opinion painted as fact. It ends up as just a waste of time.

                      Anyway, the present and the future. It’s 2014. Nokia as we knew it is dead.

                    • burning nkia jumper

                      RR can’t read anything as it is a marketing/propaganda bot. Read end find out yourself this only stupid waste of time to discuss with RR, just in this thread http://mynokiablog.com/2014/01/09/ms-grev-sullivan-we-will-have-the-license-for-the-nokia-name-more-nokia-wp-related-nokia-ms-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-1076452

                    • Janne

                      People who think RR is a bot (or paid or whatever) clearly haven’t jousted with him enough.

                      I’ve hit my head in the wall with RR enough to know he is quite human underneath the sometimes obnoxious exterior.

                      RR does have strong views and an annoying habit of copy-pasting them plus being condescending, but he also often has a point. Once you understand the point, he doesn’t usually seem quite as obnoxious – but sometimes the point is hard to get to, because of his style.

                      You don’t have to agree with RR, but he does clearly know quite a bit about Nokia. That much is clear for anyone following him more closely than just knee-jerk reactions.

                      Even though he creates much noise, RR also contributes information and ideas. That is much more than some people here.

                    • burning nkia jumper

                      @GordonH:
                      I suppose I have just win 100 bucks dude? ;)

                      @Jane:
                      In history some students-paticipants in the Elisa experiment wanted to date with Elisa, and haven’t believed it is only a soft. Wanted and insisted on a date further.

                      Of course there is a human(s) behind – as somebody has written those texts including facts and ideas – and that I suppose is the reality. From the other hand there is a small but a possibility RR is like a Rain Man, what cause his difficulties in communication. But a human being even with some dysfunction would not do what Random Random does.

                      And from time to time a human operator(s) can answer or send a post.

                      Whatever, a dispute with a nasty marketing/propaganda script/bot like RR is to much tiring for me. Even when it is created by a person or a group of persons or a whole marketing/propaganda department. This is what I think about this.

                      A theory behind such a bot in big short-cut is following: when one read a statement enough times then it remains in one’s subconsciousness memory and moderate one’s decisions. Just a slowly acting poison into one’s brain. In this case my/your brain. And you can forget it, you have read this several times – and this is the aim of such bot lords.

                    • Janne

                      Of course a bot could do it.

                      But it doesn’t really pass the simplest explanation/the likeliest explanation test.

                      Why would anyone create a bot to spam a relatively minor fan blog like MNB? And if so why isn’t RR everywhere? Someone just created a bot like that for this one, relatively minor site?

                      No, having jousted with him for, I think a couple of years now, I think it is far more likely he is human than not. I too have argued like many of you with RR, but I think we both have also walked away from those learning from each other. But not before really some excessive copy-pasta rounds going on. :) But it has never been machine-like-copy-pasta. No, RR is very human because he tries to annoy for effect.

                      Hey, anything is theoretically possible, even RR being a bot, but that doesn’t mean we should seriously consider it. It just isn’t very likely at all.

                      RR is an opinionated guy with some anti-social behaviors and some friends inside Nokia probably. Perhaps he himself has worked there too.

                    • Random Random

                      How lovely.

                      BNJ is so lost that all he can do is to try to explain how I’m a bot.

                      I suppose we have just seen an example of a sad person.

                    • GordonH

                      “@GordonH:
                      I suppose I have just win 100 bucks dude? ”

                      Anytime Anytime.

                      Janne is so overprotecting the unreasonable troll RandomRandom.

                    • Janne

                      GordonH:

                      No, I’m just *educating* you on how to understand RR’s point. ;)

                      You know. To actually have a conversation here. With exchange of views and learning from each other.

                      If you just dismiss RR (wrongly) as a troll, there is no conversation.

                      GordonH, you *are* here for conversation, not for trolling… aren’t you? ;)

        • Bloob

          Got a chance to play with a 920 again today, and while I think Jolla has a very decent quality to it, that I do wish I could get that 920 display on it.

          Sadly, there seems to be little to no chance for that for now, but who knows what Jolla comes out with next year.

          I don’t really want Nokia to come back to the highly competitive mobile market after selling off most of their talent specializing in that field.

          As for Jolla, who knows what will happen there, it doesn’t seem different enough to succeed (unlike Harmattan perhaps could have been back in the day), nor improved enough. We’ll get a better view of things this year, when Jolla people perhaps have more time on their hands to concentrate on features. Still hoping for a donate option in the store.

          • Janne

            Soliciting donations is (unfortunately) illegal in Finland where Jolla is incorporated, unless you are a non-profit with a permit – meaning Jolla couldn’t get a permit even if they tried. Putting a Donate button on your website is considered soliciting here.

            Yes, this legislation is terribly out of date in the modern age of crowd-funding. Hope it changes sometime and people and groups like Jolla can benefit from supporters.

            • Random Random

              Yes.

              Maybe cults like Jolla should be allowed to collect money from the believers.

              • Bloob

                Well, I was thinking more about donating to developers, than donating to Jolla, I don’t want to charge for all my apps, but would appreciate it if some people would see them worth enough to donate me a bit.

                • Random Random

                  Well.

                  Can’t that be done by making two versions of the same application. One that’s free and one that has a price.

                  Or perhaps the best way for donations would be making a donate button inside the application and implement it as an in-app purchase. That would be effectively the same as donating.

                  • Shaun

                    The store doesn’t accept paid applications yet so no you can’t make two versions.

                    • Random Random

                      Well.

                      And someone said how Jolla didn’t ship an unfinished product.

                      Wow!

                  • Bloob

                    Sure, I could implement a donating myself, but it would be much easier, on a couple of levels, if I didn’t have to.

                    • Random Random

                      Then you could wait for Jolla to support that. It’s likely that they will add the feature once they have time to do that.

                      Assuming your application would have a price of 1 euro and the rumors about the installed base were true, you would get 100 euros if 1% of the people using a Jolla phone would actually pay for it.

                      Maybe not worth the trouble at this point of time?

            • Random Random

              Well.

              Donating is not the same as crowd funding.

              • Janne

                Sure. But some crowd-funding mechanisms have been considered illegal in Finland due to the possibility of being seen as donations.

                • Janne

                  Or maybe a better translation is being seen as “money collecting”, which is the part that requires a permit and non-profit status.

  • NN

    After lumia sold like hot cakes. Nokia goes with android.

    8.8m unit on Q3 and if it breaks 10m unit in this quarter, nokia needs to continue with WP.
    but if less, i aggree if android is much better :)))

    • Bloob

      WP has picked up some, but market share per price point is probably lower for any price point except for 520…

  • MyLumiaAsha FTW! no more jelly selfish!

    I really cant wait for Nokia MWC 2014 :D,i dont care about jelly selfish device like other jelly fans who says #Unlike but copying N9 UI and Design

  • Paul

    I expect no announcements for WP8.1 devices.
    WP8.1 will be probably announced at BUILD in April. Before that time I wouldn’t expect any announcements for devices or previews for developer.

    • Janne

      It would be a bit crazy to miss the MWC though products-wise. So unless the status of D&S acquisition for some reason dictates otherwise, I’d expect some device announcements have been planned and will still go through. Build could also be the developer release of 8.1, they could show some of it at MWC? I’d expect MWC being a more important venue than Build, for mobile announcements.

      No matter if 8.1 is present, I just hope they make it business as usual, instead of some special MWC like 2011… The Lumia business needs to continue as smoothly as possible IMO.

      • Paul

        I expect new products at MWC but no WP8.1

        • Janne

          I just wonder how many of the up-coming Lumia products might rely on some feature of WP 8.1, say, buttonless design. If so, we might see glimpses of WP 8.1 even before its full launch. Not unlike WP8 was shown partially with Lumia 920 and full reveal only a little later…

  • Paul

    What a great comment system…

  • Shaun

    The comment systems won’t let me reply in place Janne so this may appear out of context.

    Our main difference is I feel that you think any new mobile phone OS needs a rich app based ecosystem.

    My contention is that it does not. If you’re that wedded to that view then I can see why you might believe there is no point in building another OS other than Android. Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox, Indie etc all believe otherwise.

    “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

    Yes, it is. I agree with that. I’ve no idea if it’s going to be the entire future of the mobile market. I do hope not. But it’s definitely a bright *part* of it compared to what we have now. And that’s why I called you a defeatist for not agreeing with that.

    • Janne

      I call anyone agreeing with statement “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.” a little bit out there. Like from a North Korean PR department.

      Of course none of this means one shouldn’t try with new operating systems. One just shouldn’t think of the as “bright future of mobile market” prematurely, because frankly that would be crazy talk.

      You don’t need apps for a new mobile OS if you can find your niche. But then, if you’re niche, you are hardly “the bright future of the mobile market”. You might still make a great product for a sliver of the market.

      If anyone wonders what I was responding to, let’s just say I think burning nkia jumper’s message here doesn’t reflect my views:

      http://mynokiablog.com/2014/01/11/nokia-nsn-and-jolla-at-mwc-2014-first-year-of-jollas-journey-from-the-eyes-of-jollas-cto/comment-page-1/#comment-1078440

      • Shaun

        Why do you think what Jolla is doing is NOT a bright future?

        I’m confused. Why would you buy one of their phones if you though what they were doing was not a good idea?

        The status quo is closed silos ran by companies that want to mine your data, lock you in to their services and give access to the NSA. Jolla, Ubuntu, Indiephone etc aren’t about that at all – that’s the bright part of the future of mobile – people standing up and saying the status quo is not good enough. And you’re accusing people who follow those ideals as somehow singing from the “North Korean PR” hymn sheet? I think you have that backwards.

        • Janne

          Who said I didn’t think Jolla represented nice ideas or even ideals?

          I just don’t think that has anything much to do with burning nkia jumper’s assertion.

          Hey, maybe the English was broken beyond repair, but to me it sounded and still sounds like an unrealistic assessment of where Jolla is:

          “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

          It doesn’t sound, to me, like “Jolla and Sailfish represent ideals superior to what we have in the current mobile market.” or some such. Let alone that “All these new FOSS contenders represent welcome change in the mobile market…”

          No, burning nkia jumper’s message I responded to was quite a bit more literal than that. Especially when taken in context of burning nkia jumper’s assertions such as Jolla having the third largest software ecosystem.

          I was responding to unrealistic portrayal of Jolla’s market position, not making commentary on the righteousness of Jolla’s mission or my mobile phone buying preferences.

          And even if I disagreed with Jolla’s ideals, how would that be defeatist? No, defeatist would be someone who believes in them, but excessively does not believe in Jolla’s chances.

          I think my views on Jolla’s chances are rooted in reality, and they have plenty of chances. I just didn’t think burning nkia jumper’s assertions are rooted in reality hence I replied him.

        • Janne

          The North Korea reference, by the way, was just a play on the old MNB joke about posters being paid by a Korean PR department… Well, you know who that referred to.

          In this case, I thought describing a fledgling startup and their barely released product “the bright future of mobile market” seemed like a line out of propaganda from a more northern PR department.

          Frankly, I can’t believe we are even discussing this line still:

          “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

          Come on. And calling countering such a line defeatist? That’s also quite fitting with the propaganda theme actually…

          Baffled is me.

          • Shaun

            I’m baffled you’re baffled.

            • Janne

              Yes, I am the defeatist that dared to doubt this statement:

              “Jolla and Sailfish is the bright future of mobile market.”

              Shock, horror. How could anyone rational suggest that might be hyperbole.

              Apparently it baffles you that someone could doubt such a statement without being “defeatist”.

            • GordonH

              Well Shaun if you were praising WP then you too shalt be praised.
              Anything non MS product here gets a pretended “reasonable” long comment and run circles into a “proof” of no bright future .

              • Janne

                As you know, I would famously disagree with someone calling WP the bright future of the mobile market…

                Now, the mediocre future of the mobile market… ;)

          • Carbontubby

            I’m going to get a lot of flak for this but I think a lot of Symbian and Meego fans got butthurt over Nokia abandoning them, then abandoning the mobile devices business altogether.

            I say, so what? Use your device to its best abilities and if you have the skills, mod it and develop for it. If you’re still not satisfied, just go out and buy something else.

            As for Jolla, I don’t see its future being anywhere near as bright as some commenters here think. They don’t seem to know what their business model is, their software is late and buggy, and their main selling point seems to be continuing Meego’s legacy. If you can’t even release a functional base OS, don’t even talk about app ecosystems.

            • Janne

              Let’s hope Jolla’s business plan in private is much clearer than in public. It is quite possible it is, despite the obvious uncertainties.

              All the best to Jolla!

  • Shaun

    “You don’t have to agree with RR, but he does clearly know quite a bit about Nokia. That much is clear for anyone following him more closely than just knee-jerk reactions”

    You keep saying this Janne but it’s not actually true.

    I mean, in this thread RR makes the assertion that ‘Nokia didn’t know how to make thin phones in 2010′.

    In 2010 Samsung’s Galaxy S was 9.9mm thick and hailed as the thinnest smartphone, at least until the 9.3mm thick iPhone 4; the one with the fragile glass back and external aerial that required a rubber bumper – making it thicker again.

    In 2008, Nokia released the 10mm thick E71. In 2010, the C7 was 10.5mm thick. Both with predominately steel cases, removable batteries and battery lives measured in days, not hours. I would suggest Nokia was the only one who knew how to make thin phones well, at least the hardware thereof anyway.

    You could pick any factoid from RR and pull it apart with not much effort.

    • Janne

      Sure, you can if you just want to miss his point or intentionally misunderstand him. I seriously doubt RR doesn’t know about E71 or C7 or their thickness. E71 and C7 were hardly high-end devices for starters – and C7 was still a fairly thick design – as were Nokia’s 2011 smartphone offerings. It is just RR being his combative self and choosing such fighting words. Yeah, he is doing a disservice to himself with that kind of stuff. Of course, literally, Nokia knew how to make thin phones in 2010.

      I believe RR’s point is that Nokia was working on smartphone designs that were not going where the market was going – and that their high-end phones were characteristically quite thick. He may even think Nokia didn’t quite know how to make thin high-end smartphones, which arguably could be true because they didn’t really make any thin high-end smartphones until Lumia 1520, even Lumia 925 is a little arguable considering its lowish specs at the time of release.

      Samsung and Apple were going for thin while Nokia’s design direction was about much thicker unibodies (their aluminium line and the polycarbonate unibodies) and e.g. larger camera elements (Nokia’s initial thin(ish) cameras were absolutely appalling compared to their usual camera expertise). Still today, Nokia’s high-end isn’t really known for their thinness, although Lumia 1520 certainly is good enough.

      But sure, if RR literally thinks Nokia didn’t know how to make thin phones in 2010 he can say so and is an idiot. Knowing RR’s history here, though, I doubt he meant it literally. (burning nkia jumper, though, seems to quite literally think great things about Jolla since he has multiple times clarified to do so.)

      • Random Random

        Let’s put it this way.

        Nokia was never really fighting the thinness game when the other were and sold lots of phones because of that.

        Nokia was also saving costs and using somewhat larger parts.

        And then there was the camera. The (only?) reason why Nokia was supposed to succeed.

        If Nokia has a great camera the phone just wasn’t thin. If Shaun wants to check this, he could find out how thick phones Nokia had in 2010 if the phone had a 5MP camera of iPhone 4 quality.

        Shaun, tell us, how thin was Nokia’s thinnest 5MP camera phone with iPhone 4 image quality camera in 2010?

  • GordonH

    A reminder of what RandomRandom here is about … everybody here needs to check this out in the comments section of this article.
    http://mynokiablog.com/2014/01/09/ms-grev-sullivan-we-will-have-the-license-for-the-nokia-name-more-nokia-wp-related-nokia-ms-stuff/

    • Janne

      Maybe you post a link to the offending comment. Overall RR seems to be just repeating his views on the Nokia situation since 2010 or so. Seems consistent with his opinion on the matter.

      We all have our views on that – most of us repeat them on some level or another. For some it is a burning platform conspiracy, for others something else.

      • GordonH

        Oh dear again Janne … overprotecting RR again. I don’t want to guess your reasons but anyone doubting RR’s weird behavior should go read the comments in that link.

        • Janne

          You know me. I try to be balanced.

          I also agreed with your comments in past threads when I found them agreeable, as you may recall.

          • GordonH

            Not being balanced now ain’t you boy. Go on and try to sidetrack it.
            RR was weird in the comments section of that article and no excuses, long “reasonable” comments and so called “proof” is going to change what happened in that comment section.

            • Janne

              I have argued and argue with RR often too. Anyway, nobody can be totally balanced all the time – that is true.

              All we can is try! :)

            • Random Random

              Well.

              You are complaining about my comments when BNJ posted this kind of crap.

              I posted reasonable text. He posted crap. But hey, you are complaining about my comments. Probably because you can’t tolerate my views.

              burning nkia jumper says:
              January 11, 2014 at 7:14 pm

              And just another one evidence dear Random: sdsd sdfsdf wertwer zsd qweqwef asdfkjb kkjksdf errj Symbian sadsdfdsf Android asdfasdf sdfoiu oi o oijooi oirprepom ppoifjwopeog WP lkjsglks ksjdflkjns sadsf asdfa fdsdf sdf fds sd sdfsdf lksdflgk and WP is from Ghoa-uld’s from Stargates – right dear Random?

              • GordonH

                In that article it was what it was… And no “human” ;-) can change it now.

                • Random Random

                  Yes.

                  In that blog post I posted quality text.

                  • GordonH

                    Nope … bot text actually.

                    No human behind that screen can help you.

                    • Random Random

                      Well.

                      Some copy pastes from CD’s comments section will do the job when someone posts crap.

                      However it seems that you are too limited to understand this.

                      I forgive you.

                      Yes.

                    • GordonH

                      RandomRandom a bot and no repeated lies can change the proof on that page.

  • http://jollafr.org/ nsuffys

    And Microsoft : Hall 8 et Hall 8.1 Stand EMR – CC8.5 / CC8.6 (App Planet).

    Source on French Nokia / Windows Phone website Nokians : http://nokians.fr/2014/01/nokia-microsoft-et-nsn-seront-au-mobile-world-congress-2014/

  • http://idiotsbooks.com/db/toms-online-outlet.html toms online outlet

    I was just chatting with my coworker about this today at lunch . Don’t remember how we got on the subject in actual fact, they brought it up. I do recall eating a wonderful steak salad with cranberries on it. I digress

  • http://www.doudou-mariolo.fr/denim/valise-louis-vuitton-pas-chere.html valise louis vuitton pas chere

    Nokia, NSN and Jolla At MWC 2014, First year of Jolla’s Journey from the eyes of Jolla’s CTO – My Nokia Blog
    valise louis vuitton pas chere http://www.doudou-mariolo.fr/denim/valise-louis-vuitton-pas-chere.html