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Nokia Lumia 800 Feedback from the UK sales team (O2/Orange/T-Mobile/Vodafone/Three/Carhonewarehouse/Phones4U)

| December 5, 2011 | 124 Replies

A huge problem in Windows Phone 7 is that it is so unknown to the world where iPhone, Android, BlackBerry and even Symbian are quite established. Coming into stores during the early days, the last thing you’d be recommended is a Windows Phone. The OS itself and the apps aside, the sales team at the front didn’t know much about it to give customers a push towards a WP. I’ve read several accounts and it has happened to me in several stores where I’d be recommended the “Android version” instead – mostly because of apps and then they’d show me Angry Birds. :S

Nokia knew that to get the Lumia 800 into customers hands they must:

1) Create advertising for brand awareness. People need to know the product exists and make it desirable enough to come and ask for it.

2) Train the staff in stores/shops to know what the great points are in the Nokia Lumia. This way, customers can make a much better informed decision about their purchases.

Nokia’s Training managers are doing a great job of spreading the knowledge on the Lumia, and there’s a great website for the activity of the staff in the UK related to selling the Lumia phones. In one portion you can see blog posts from people and their experience in selling the Nokia Lumia. We’ve compiled a few below but there are just too many to go through it all.

A great thing about the Nokia Lumia then is that without saying anything it already sells itself. The design is a huge winner. The sleek, evocative design, the curvy display, the gorgeous screen. On looks alone it’s already ahead of the bunch.

Then comes the OS. To the masses, it’s just right for them. It’s not yet as versatile as Android, but the masses aren’t techy. They just want simple, beautiful phones that work quickly, work well and do the things they expect it to do based on their average-user typical usage.

The people hub seems to be an instant hit for the masses that love facebook and twitter. Facebook is the top visited website in the UK and more spend time on facebook than pretty much the other top 10 sites combined. So it’s great that out of the box, no app needed (though you can get one if you want), it’s ready. And they’re all integrated in your phone.

It’s music to my ears that customers are loving the Lumia, sales staff are loving the lumia and more so that folks coming in with the intention of buying the iPhone 4S are leaving with the Lumia after giving it a go and realising it does everything they were expecting from the iPhone and then some. THIS. This is what has been needed on the store fronts. Not like the performances of last year where the poor N8 was left there with the incredible ground breaking camera being ignored. Seems Nokia are getting it. On the product, on the advertising, on the sales.

http://nokiaconnection.co.uk/

Here they are:

This phone is the best phone out there by far. I have manged to switch 15 customers within a week to pre order the Lumia, I love the device so much I can’t wait to get one when I’m due a new phone, the customers that are interested in apple iPhones or galaxy s 2 I manage to persuade some to go for a Lumia

Written by Joe Moody (Orange)

 

After having a customer come in for an iPhone 4S I asked her why she wanted one, she replied ‘they’re easy to use’. So I showed her my Nokia Lumia and how easy it works and she loved it that much that she brought one and because there such great value for money she was happy she saved £10 a month! :)

Jon Spittle (Carphone Warehouse)

The Lumia is flying off the shelves, especially from one who has really taken the training on board and pitching them to everyone. The main things that are selling the phone are the design, superb screen and the way the social networks are integrated into the phone OS so don’t need to keep switching apps and all the messages are compiled into one thread.

From a standing start, Nokia have really grabbed people’s attention with the Lumia and the advertising is starting to pay off as people are coming in and asking about the handset, and asking to upgrade to it.

 by Iain McLaren (Carphone Warehouse) 

 

Had a customer in who came in asking specifically about iPhone tariffs, after chatting for a while they said “Oh well, I used to love Nokia, but iPhone seem to be the one to have now” I then quickly showed them the Lumia, they absolutely fell in love with the display, the OS and the fact that it had the best from Nokia & Windows Phone 7 all in one amazing package! They were thrilled with the phone and they left with one that afternoon after saying “Nokia are definitely back on form with this smartphone!”

 Jack Price (Vodafone)

Moving into peak we’re all getting the xmas shoppers’ shopping for their loved ones and time and time again I’m getting these kind of responses…

My dad’s a builder – he needs something easy to use that won’t break easy

Ah I’m just looking for something for my fella who works on buidling sites.

HAVE YOU SEEN THE AMAZING NOKIA LUMIA

  1. Gorilla Glass
  2. Charging Ports all sealed up and covered
  3. Made from same plastic used in Ice Hocket Helmets

would you like your receipt in the bag?

Paul Singer (Phones 4U)

Yesterday I sold a Nokia Lumia to an 89 year old man and within an hour his 87 year old wife was back and took one too! a great example of brand loyal customers combined with a slick and straightforward user interface :)

nathan sulman (Phones 4U) 

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Customer came in with his wife going on about how great his new iPhone 4S was etc. His wife wanted the same, but I whipped out a Lumia and told em both about what it could do. The wife upgraded to the Lumia, forgot about the 4S and the husband started complaining that the shop he bought his 4S from never showed him the Lumia and he was going to take back his 4S!

liam thewordsmyth (Everything Everywhere) 

Customer fell in love with the Lumia as soon as the screen lit up. The customer was most impressed with the windows tiles and loved the phone so much they took 2. One for her and one for her boyfriend, who apparently is a huge Xbox fan so the Xbox feature sealed the deal for the double. Get in.

Jack Wade (Three) 

I lose track of the number of people who I speak to who want an iPhone. Well, at least they think they do.

It’s amazing how, once people have played with a Lumia for a minute or two, they lose all desire for anything Appley.

As one lady put to me… “the iPhone doesn’t come in blue – it won’t match my handbag”.

Lumia – a bag of win :-)

Bill Bennett (Three)

The lumia is very slick and customers are flocking to grab them, very impressed with Nokia, they have definitely given Apple and HTC a run for their money! And very happy to see Nokia back in the Market with something as GOOD as the LUMIA!! GREAT phone…..

Mounym Benhaddou (Carphone Warehouse)

Glad to see better competition from Nokia!

emma mccann (O2) 

I have just had an amazing long weekend to celebrate my 1st wedding anniversary in Edinburgh and loved the Lumia. It got us there in the first place with Nokia drive, found us places to see with the local scout feature, identified great restaurants with the tripadvisor app that we found and captured the memories in brilliant quality with the 8mp camera with carl zeiss lense. So much faster and easier to use than android, better looking than anything else on the market. Great work Nokia! And a great easy sell in store…

 Alexander Holmes (Three) 

 

Client wanted their first smart phone, was blown away by the Lumia

After 5 mins of demo the client could not put it down..!

Daniel Turnbull (Carphone Warehouse) 

After doing customer call backs again today it’s becoming increasingly obvious to me that customers are finding it so simple to use the Nokia Lumia, I haven’t had one single customer back in with an issue or concern with the handset. In two years selling Nokias at Phones 4U I think that is a first, and I’m sure we all agree. Amazing job Nokia!

Paul Singer (Phones 4U) 

Yesterday I showed a customer how easy it was to use the voice control, they were amazed because you can open every application on the phone just by your voice! And it even reads out your texts if you want! What a clever device.

matt rampersad (Orange)

 

Many of the customers entering my shop have iPhones or Android devices; And they, like myself, know just how irritating the Facebook applications are. Always freezing, crashing or just refreshing before you can read that all important status…

 

With the Windows integrated facebook format, this issue is resolved as just on the People Hub, you can view everything you need to. If you demo this to a customer who is on Facebook, they’re in dreamland!

 

Nokia and Windows… WELL DONE!

 Ian Dove (Orange)

Borrowed my reps 800 to demo to a customer who came in for an iPhone 4s. After showing him how easy the phone was to use as well as demoing he did not need to download seperate apps for social neworks he was sold as he was frustrated with the iPhone always needing to load up before he could check his facebook RESULT!!!

adam kennedy (T-Mobile)

Nokia have come a long way since Symbian, which I believe is a great move for them… I hope they manage to go a long way with Windows, they seem to have a great partnership and hopefully there are good things to come.. Lumia 800 is just the start :)

Richard Hogg (Carphone Warehouse)

 

It’s not all positive. There’s just an overwhelming amount of positive stuff. Here’s someone complaining that they can’t delete all their contacts at once.  (Perhaps they want to filter their contacts that appeared when putting in twitter/facebook?).

 

The campaign is pretty impressive and that’s just one aspect of it. There seems to be a points thing going on (with points allowing you to then participate in competitions), great way to motivate people :).

Here’s one place they can get points on. I’m sure this is just for sales staff but no harm playing it too. This is called Store wars. Defend your phones from being taken…

http://nokiaconnection.co.uk/games/view/store-wars/

Thanks Michael Prince for the tip!

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Tags:

Category: Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Deep Space Bar

    so what’s the difference which no one can answer

    lumia vs the other WP7 phones…..nothing is new to the table not even the design since it was from the N9 and same with the 710 the 603 already has that design so WHAT IS SOO GOOD ABOUT THIS

    • Jay Montano

      Good news about Nokia? Shoot it down because it’s related to WP.

      • Deep Space Bar

        it’s a question that no one seems to answer it keeps being over looked…..not even elop himself can answer that question

        • Jay Montano

          I answered you below. I was just shocked that you would bring this up again.

          • Eugen

            Oh well, what are you going to do. Haters have nothing to do but comment. Lumia users can’t just lay down the phone to argue :)

            • migo

              Well said.

            • Deep Space Bar

              it’s a boring os i played with my friend’s lg wp7 with mango….on thing i can is it’s smooth nothing else

    • Jay Montano

      To answer your question properly, what’s so good about this? Seems to irk you so much any time there’s something positive about the Nokia Lumia posted on a Nokia fan blog.

      Well let’s see. You have WP which is quite a good OS for the majority of consumers. It’s not good for you like your Symbian. It doesn’t suit your needs. That’s fine.

      But it does for other people. On top of that, you have the Nokia design:

      1) fantastic design
      2) Amazing screen
      3) Impeccable reception
      4) That special Nokianess – everyone has memories of their Nokia
      5) Robust build.

      If you have to ask yourself what makes a Nokia special, look at your beloved N8. Look at all your previous Nokia. As a Nokia fan I can say that things that are Nokia are immediately likeable for the core things in hardware Nokia has. To belittle the hardware is a little odd. Where else do you want it to differentiate?

      What makes a Vaio Z better than a shity Acer? Both may have internals that could be the same but you might prefer the sleekness, the craftmanship, the build, the design of the former.

      I know it pains you and the horde of WP haters any time the Lumia is praised. Hey, there’s still more Symbian phones coming next year. If you don’t like the phone, don’t go browsing posts about it.

      (Perhaps it’s late and I’m a little Ratty cos every comment in a WP post, there’s someone complaining about WP, when in a N9 post, WP folks leave it alone – unless someone brings WP into it randomly and then we cycle around the same discussion over and over again like we’ve all got severe Alzheimers)

      • Deep Space Bar

        this was already in the N9/603….nothing is new…come one Jay…just like every other android phone this is already happening to nokia they are getting eaten up at the fact that they are just another WP7 OEM nothing will change that

        • Jay Montano

          Are they? Do you have the comparable sales of Lumia vs other WP?

          Watch out for the reviews of the 603 vs the 710. See what comes out better. Belle is great and all but WP unfortunately suits the current market better.

          I KNOW the design is in the Nokia N9. But that’s not what’s on sale in the UK. What do you want me to do about that? A rain dance so that Elop changes his mind?

          I’m pleased as a NOKIA FAN (CHECK the name of this blog) that Nokia are getting praised again. If you can’t accept that because it’s WP instead of Symbian or MeeGo, I’m sorry.

          • Deep Space Bar

            i don’t care about that i want to know cause there is certainly no difference so elops decision/actions can’t even be justified……there was no reason at all to even adopt WP7 nor kill MeeGo let alone tell the world they are phasing out symbian

            they time and money they are spending on WP7 they should have put that to working on MeeGo and Symbian and improve hardware,Services,increase developers awareness about Qt and Marketing

            ……if you don’t agree with me something is wrong cause a whole year as been wasted on WP7

            and if it didn’t take long to put out MeeGo 1.1 and 1.2 is already on the rise

            and as well with the progress of Symbi3n Belle Running smoother then most current Gen Androids which are Packed power…i honestly see this as a full fledged set up

            to take out Symbi3n,Meego and Give out Qt basically for free since it now turning in to a standard building tool for Apps

            • Jay Montano

              Are you really recycling the Elop/Feb 11 talk again?

              Dude, what do you want me to do about it? No amount of talk here or anywhere is going to reverse what happened.

              What’s coming out now is being received positively. That’s at least one good thing.

              • Deep Space Bar

                2.6 – 1.6 mill in sales is not good it’s going backwards…..like wise…symbian will save nokia again….watch

                • Jay Montano

                  Possible in In 6 weeks? I think that’s OK.

                  SGS went 1m in 6 weeks. Sammy built up the Galaxy name and are selling SGSII in droves. The same package android, mostly the same hardware that other android manufacturers have. Though still able to sell on a good brand.

    • Dans

      Its a Nokia.

      • Deep Space Bar

        that doesn’t explain anything

        • Jay Montano

          In a way yes it does.

          Nokia = great build
          Nokia = great antenna
          Nokia = nostalgic fun memories

          Nokia is not a HTC.
          Nokia is not a Samsung.

          For some being a Nokia is enough. They’ve got to recoup and keep the brand desirable.

          On plain usability aside, WP has a lot of swiping around the screen given the metro panoramic UI. The curved glass fits WP so wonderfully, much better than all the other WPs available to date. If you’ve used a N9 or 800 you know there’s just something about that curve display that actually enhanced the finger swiping gestures.

          • dr_zorg

            “Nokia = great build”

            That won’t really be true after a couple years.
            Closing European factories and transferring all business to Chinese manufacturers will hit build quality rather hard.

            • migo

              You’re just being racist. The Chinese make everything, both good quality and bad. It just depends on the standards and quality control, not the people.

    • kan

      Quite a few things vs other WP phones.

      Iconic Design
      Clear Black display
      Exclusive Apps
      Exclusive Services – mapping and music
      Materials and finish

      • Deep Space Bar

        every other company will have the same hardware…..I’m serious

        WHAT IS SO DIFFERENT FROM NOKIA’s WP7 THEN THE REST….NOTHING

        • Jay Montano

          Will they look like the Nokia?
          Will they feel like the Nokia?

          Point me to the WP that looks like the Lumia 800 and I will give you a cookie.

          • Deep Space Bar

            you don’t need another phone to look look like another phone to be successful

            but it’s just said that being unique is gone

            so what ever people are saying about the lumia 800 and 710 are actually directed to N9 and 603

            >.>

            • Bob

              You don’t get it, just accept that and go away.

              Jay, stop feeding the troll.

              • Deep Space Bar

                i’m not a troll you fool it’s a question and if it can’t be answered i will keep asking till i gets answered

                read my post cause there are thing that you would be asking as well

                • Jay Montano

                  If it can’t be answered? I may have missed your answer but what precisely would you like the answer to be?

                  It seems that there is an impossible answer to find and the only way to know what you’re expecting us to say is if you tell us.

                  It will save us the effort of trying to answer in the best way possible, but each time being shot down because that’s not the expected answer.

                  So just tell us what you want to hear. I will ctrl c ctrl v it.

                • gus

                  Yes the N9 is a great phone but the 800 is pretty much the same great phone but with WP7. That’s what makes it special. Who cares if it has the same design as the N9? How would that make it less appealing? I don’t get that. Explain that to me

            • Jay Montano

              “you don’t need another phone to look look like another phone to be successful”

              No but it certainly helps. Don’t kid yourself that Nokia should be all honourable and produce a unique design for each and every phone. Do you know how expensive it would be to do so?

              Let’s look at Nokia’s history. Look how many phones looked alike because they build on that reputation of similar looking handsets. The 6110 6230, 6230i, N72, N72i 6610, 7210, N95, N95i, N96, N85, N86 all very similar phones pretty much.

              Comparing to phones from other manufacturers – they build on the same design. iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone and then all of Samsung’s variants that looked like an iPhone.

              In very similar designs, not only to you save money, but if the design is well received, you BUILD on that recognition for your product.

              Why shouldn’t Nokia take advantage of this?

              “so what ever people are saying about the lumia 800 and 710 are actually directed to N9 and 603″

              In terms of hardware, perhaps yes. The cameras in the 603 and 710 are different. The OS is completely night and day between 603 and 710. Don’t kid yourself that the experience someone will get from the 603 will be identical to the 710. Some might prefer the 603, some might the 710 but they’re just too different so say anything positive from 710 comes straight from 603.

              And if you’re talking about design, the first publicly seen device was the 710 concept.

              There’s being unique, and there’s being memorable. I don’t want a million shitty unique devices because Nokia’s constantly redesigning the phones. I don’t want them to stay the same and be stale either though. If there’s a great design that they’ve cracked, build on it.

              Also consider that it might help in the way of transitioning.

              Here is a Symbian handset and here’s the WP version of it – see how you get along.

              In the UK, which do you honestly think would be received better REGARDLESS of any possible news about Feb11. Just on usability even with Belle, the 603 will not cut it. It cannot on browsing. It cannot in the keyboard. It cannot on how mail is handled. It cannot on apps.

              The 603 has great pluses too. Bluetooth file sending, file managers, USB mass storage. But what would a general consumer prefer? We are not the general consumer.

              • Deep Space Bar

                have you flashed the new version of symbi3n belle like i mentioned from before…because there is a MASSIVE improvement that puts it’s on par with iphone4 and some current and last gen Android phones .

                my roommate has a samsung captivate and i reflashed my phone a week ago and he even said it’s smooth and faster then his android phone….he even asked me if i can put symbi3n belle on his samsung captivate ….what does that tell you about the update ?

                • peter

                  WP is the most fluid and Fast OS right now. Period. Android is junk, don’t know if Symbian is smoother than Android but it’s not smoother than WP. Also Symbian was impossible to write apps for. Compare this to WP with the awesome programming env, all the cloud stuff you get. Please go and use the Nokia Lumia and then re-post here with your honest thoughts.

        • Jay Montano

          Also what you’ve seen from Nokia is just 2 of their very early WPs. They are the ones to just get to market. There’s much higher end ones to come with that supposed Nokia stamp.

          • Deep Space Bar

            that’s doesn’t drive me to drop symbian at all as you know very well about symbian users that we are VERY hard to Please since we’ve grown with almost every feature that every other phone has right now

            and if i wanted to look at tiles i would go to the bathroom

            • Jay Montano

              Man, I didn’t say it would make you drop Symbian. I clearly said WP is not for you. You are a much more advanced user that knows how to fully take advantage of Symbian and so anything less is not an option.

              I’m just saying that there will be even more high end WPs next year. Where in did I say you will drop Symbian for that?

              • Deep Space Bar

                you never said that but i’m stating it since Elop is gonna push everyone to WP7 when symbian phases out or if it ever does

                • kan

                  DeepSpace

                  I also regret the current Nokia strategy. I don’t disagree with choosing WP over Android but I disagree with the WP only strategy and scuttling the other o/s and not building out this own services.

                  However all of this should not cloud your thinking of Nokia wp phones versus the competition.

                  • Deep Space Bar

                    it’s not at all i just want a serious straight answer….because what has happened within this full year from october till now still can not be justified and actions speak louder then words

                    so in that being said

                    elop is actually working with ballmer and MSFT to get his fair share of paper without even going out to talk or even get alittle incite from the end users

                    it clearly shows that he doesn’t give a shit and Nokia doesn’t Need CEO that doesn’t give a shit about the end users

                    Nokia just lost 70% of it’s employees for the cost of an OS that’s not even of interest to the general public

                    • Nataku

                      straight answer -> “it’s different”

        • kan

          You are correct that they will have the same chassis and internal specs. But the specs do not cover optics, gyro is not compulsory, the speed of the ram or the size, the CPU/gpu soc will be the same.

          The internals will be similar but not identical.

          Also you missed one huge part of owning a device and that is after sales service. Nokia beats LG and HTC hands down on this, not owned a Samsung device that I needed to get repaired so will leave that for others to comment on.

          • Deep Space Bar

            it’s just like android….just another body with no soul and only with a logo

            • kan

              Look I have put forward points where Nokia differentiates it’s products from other windows phones – hardware software services and support. As yet you keep on moving the goal posts now something subjective which their is no counter point as its based on your opinion.

              I am not a WP fan or apologist. I have been critical of Elop but I try to be objective as possible.

          • Jay Montano

            Using HD7 and Omnia7, they just felt bad.

            Fortunately the Omnia7 had a really nice screen but just about that.

            Reception was terrible. The proximity sensor kept going wrong
            It took forever to charge. The sales package was crap and the bundled accessories were flimsy and already broken.

            There’s little touches that Nokia has compared to other manufacturers. i’m surprised you’ve not noticed before. Are you new to Nokia apart from your n8?

            • Deep Space Bar

              LOL i’ve been here for almost a year Jay…i just haven’t said much i’m also the same guy that’s one of the Admins of the N8group on FB

              • Jay Montano

                I know exactly who you are and that’s what surprises me about some of your comments asking what makes a Nokia special :) I just had to recheck that I hadn’t made assumptions that perhaps N8 might have been your first Nokia.

                Anything with a Nokia makes it special. It was great for a time when that was Symbian, Maemo, MeeGo and even S40. Right now it’s also with WP.

                For better or for worse what’s done is done, and there are growing indications that at least for those interested in Nokia, it might work out quite well.

                • Deep Space Bar

                  i don’t know man i really am sensing a downfall not with Nokia itself but with MSFT and this is gonna pull Nokia Down in the future

                  i’ve already mentioned how apple is gonna get screwed a month ago and shit is going downhill

                  phones exploding
                  less and less people want iphones
                  update are killing battery

                  in my honest opinion

                  they should have brought out the N950/N9 as variants to the public

                  that would have generated alot for Nokia Popularity wise and marketshare
                  ..now look how much Nokia is loosing since elop didn’t follow the previous structured plan

                  • Jay Montano

                    Major strategy change, major upheaval, major losses. Initially. Hopefully just initially.

                    You’re right though. A lot of things could go right, a lot of things can go wrong.

                    IF MS keeps WP on track and pulls out another major release that keeps Apollo competitive

                    IF MS can polish W8 and get it out on time and not make it the next Vista

                    IF Nokia can push hardware they’ve already excelled in with Symbian and put it on WP

                    If Nokia can then meet what the hardware braggers on Android have.

                    If MS does something to make XBox even more desirable

                    If Kinect flies more

                    If Kinect on PC (hence hand gestures no need for touch) flies

                    If Nokia can make sure they can continue announcing phones soon with release sales pretty much immediately after

                    They also need to do something different. In WP they rest on Nokia getting the hardware right but on MS getting their ecosystem in order.

                    • Deep Space Bar

                      windows still has a horrible crash rate and it’s high…..>.> Windows 8 still has BSOD as you know which shouldn’t even happen but it’s MSFT and they are lazy

                      smaller community gets things done faster

                      hense why MeeGo and Symbian are now getting faster updates if you’ve noticed

                      no other manufacture is using symbian except Nokia

                    • larryg968

                      Notice how many times u mentioned microsoft or microsoft products in your response- about 6 product

                      Only 1 of these products directly affect nokia- WP.

                      If u tink nokia is gonna join forces with microsoft and becoming a dominant player in tablets ur highly delusional

                      They r competing against solid pc manufacturers with great reputation. There is nothing in nokias history that would compel someone to buy a nokia tablet.

                      Good past performance in phone is not an indication of future performance in tablets. Its a different market

                    • Viipottaja

                      to larrgyg: the point Jay was making, I think, was different. It was not about the opportunity for Nokia to try to make tablets. It was about a 3 screen ecosystem, where a consumer who has bought a Dell WP8 tablet might say “hey that Nokia phone with WP on would be a nice complement to the purchase I’ve already made”. Or an Xbox user. Or a PC user.

                  • kan

                    With Ballmer in charge MS strategy is windows everywhere when in fact it should be applications everywhere. MS makes more from applications than it does from windows licenses and this gap will only widen.

                    So I agree in part MS strategy is bAsed More on maintaining itself than actually pushing with innovation.

                    Also Nokia history of past joint ventures is littered with failures – maemo and Intel mobile became metro which was canned. The disastrous venture with Siemens networks.

                    Facts are 70% of joint ventures fail. History and evidence are weighing against Nokia. Can it still succeed? Yes but it will be hard.

                    • Deep Space Bar

                      not with what they are doing now….things shouldn’t be like this at all with nokia the company is falling apart with money driven decisions
                      samething that happened with Apple and MSFT

                    • kan

                      I have to agree that too many decisions are being made based on returns profits etc. If Nokia like apple did when jobs returned got back to creating great user experience then profits will flow from that. Currently Nokia problems stem from it becoming so corporate and worried about its bottom line it forgot about its customers.

                    • Jay Montano

                      “Currently Nokia problems stem from it becoming so corporate and worried about its bottom line it forgot about its customers.”

                      True. Had discussions with several Nokians, current and past who have said when Nokia was very healthy it was about balancing the sheets. The phones made was not for the consumer, it was what best suited the books.

                      Was really shocked to hear that, but totally made sense based on what we saw and what we could have seen. It’s understandable for such a large company to be so cautious, but perhaps too cautious and not taking the leaps that were being signalled to them. e.g. touch screens was pointed out way before iPhone or other touch stuff was on the scene. It was thought it would never catch on. Nokia was already doing well on non touch, there was no need seen to move to that.

                      New nokia must understand the new trends and hopefully still have the capability to set them. Winners seem to be the folks who change the rules and make everyone else play their game.

        • Sun Down

          Ok, dude. Did you actually paid attention to Jay’s posts? It seems like you didn’t considering he listed it out in BULLET POINTS already. I’ll add some extra’s why a Nokia WP7 is different than the rest.

          Nokia Drive
          Nokia Maps
          Nokia Musik

          Just the icing on the cake there…

          • Deep Space Bar

            with hacks…..still nothing and the fact that ballmer will pull something out his ass and put Nokia Maps service on all WP7 phones later on…..i can see it happening in a few months

          • Deep Space Bar

            by the way Nokia Music goes straight to Zune so that’s a huge fail

            • Sun Down

              Ahahahahaha. Nice try troll. I bet you’ve never actually USED Zune before.

              • Deep Space Bar

                LOL i’ve owned 2 zune’s

                1st gen 30gb and 2nd gen 16gb

                this was i was a MSFT fan and then i opened my eyes and saw all the BS they are putting people though just to use their own products which wasn’t cool at all

                BSOD still happens on Windows which i don’t get since i use linux almost 4 years

                and this is then they stopped marketing zune players

                • Nataku

                  i bet you haven’t used win7 then, not one bsod unless hardware fails

                  oh and from your win8 comment higher up, all operating systems have some form of bsod, its just a matter of triggering it

                  • Deep Space Bar

                    i have a hp g62t
                    2.30ghz intel duo core/4gbRAM

                    runs like shit on windows7 got 8 BSOD in a year i was using vista from before i moved to linux ubuntu

                    smaller community shit gets done faster

    • ribbons

      Enormous marketing push. No Nokia since the N95 or the 8110 “Matrix phone” has ever received such great publicity – let alone any Windows Phone. As Apple well know, the right marketing can sell almost anything to almost anyone, and Nokia have never needed that more than they do now.

      And Windows Phone, imperfect as it may be, justifies that marketing push by offering the consumer a fluid, intuitive, desirable and modern smartphone – something that lives up to the advertisements, unlike for example the N97.

      As much as I love Symbian and Harmattan, and still sigh at the “Burning Platform” memo, I think Nokia have done brilliantly to push this phone to consumers, and I hope it pays off for them.

      • Jay Montano

        Yes, yes and a big yes.

    • Punching Bag

      Go away

      • Deep Space Bar

        a question will never leave if it’s not answered

        • migo

          You refuse to accept the answer.

          • Deep Space Bar

            what answer…. I haven’t read it yet ?

    • q

      Is this a troll question? The design is new from a WP7 standpoint, which you already conceded. Nobody knows about the N9 because “fake-MeeGo” (Harmattan) is a dead platform.

    • Scout

      I’ve read your negative comments and decided they they just doesn’t deserve anykind of feedback. You are just a person who wants everyone to think the same than you. That will never happen.

      Let me give you better things to do than spending your time for talking:

      http://nokiaconnection.co.uk/games/view/store-wars/

      There, play the game instead of talk! Both has the same effect!

  • Dans

    It almost convinces me to buy an 800, almost..

  • kan

    Interesting concept. Shout out to sales staff at phone stores. Are you paid on the type of contract sold and the type of phone? Or you get a set amount? Do you get monthly targets of which phones to push?

    • Jay Montano

      Like with every other brand there’s most likely targets what to push.

      Fortunately though, the phone is much easier to sell on their side. The hardware is pure and can match the iPhones (and more) in beauty, and the OS is back to the simplicity and ease that Nokia was first known for and with that grabbed the world (aka the 3310s that made mobile phones simple and fun)

      • kan

        I think you missed my point. If sales staff are paid the same amount to sell a phone then if people come asking for iPhones and Androids its in their interest not to change their minds and sell them what customer wants. Unless the customer has been living under a rock they know about the iphone.

        • Jay Montano

          No I understand. I don’t know precisely what the breakdown might be in possible incentives/commissions for the Lumia over the other phone.

          I just added a comment that regardless of that, this Nokia is much easier to sell than the older Nokias.

          I’d be interested to know what incentives Nokia’s giving. It must be quite something if staff are preferably pushing Lumia. A nice change given that before, staff would always sway you away from anything WP (MOSTLY because they knew nothing about it and it’s significantly easier to sell an Android or an iPhone).

          • kan

            Previous Nokia’s sold well in a pre Iphone world. They are still selling now but in diminishing numbers. What I would find interesting to know is whether people will prefer the cheaper 710 over the 800?

            Nokia will be trying to push the carriers with incentives no doubt but how much of this gets down to the sales staff. Trying to circumvent the whole chain by connecting with sales staff directly is a novel way to get the message across. What other ways could you do this?

        • Dans

          Think they get differing amounts of commission depending on phone and contract.

          Microsoft will no doubt be offering juicy commissions for a bit.

      • Sun Down

        Stop kidding yourself by saying it ”can match the iPhone” in terms of hardware. The N9/800 is freaking-omega-light-years ahead of the iPhone.

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  • Dafa

    To be honest, I was one of the people who were raging hard when elop announced the windows phone strategy back in February, but you have to admit it’s looking more and more like the right strategy for Nokia as a whole.

    I’m currently holding on to my dear Nokia N8 as I have not yet found anything close to replacing it. My next phone would have to be the Nokia N8 successor, but it no longer matters to me is out runs symbian or WP7.

    Maybe this move is not the best for us symbian lovers, but it looks like the best move for Nokia as a whole. WP7 is by no means a complete OS, and it needs quite a bit more work. Hopefully the folks at Microsoft are up to the task.

    • Jay Montano

      True. It will be very difficult to find a replacement for the n8, especially if you have become attached to the camera and already have Belle on it.

      There’s a new post hinting at a possible N8 successor. :)

    • migo

      Thanks for admitting things are starting to look good. I wish more people here could be like you.

  • Jesse

    Good news indeed! Wish it was that way in the US, they actually hide the phones and won’t tell you about them unless you specifically ask in many cases. Makes me so angry, at least let people see it so they can actually choose a phone after seeing all the options.

    • Sun Down

      Maybe, just MAYBE those reps are actually Android/iPhone fanboys/girls? Now that would suck. :/

      • Jay Montano

        Maybe. You can tell with SOME they know as much about the phone as the next passer by on the street. They do know how to check stock and work the machine that processes your tariff.

        It’s nice to find sales staff that know their shiz.

    • Viipottaja

      True. I walked to an AT&T store a couple of weeks ago to try WP myself for the first time (yeah, I’ve played with a WP phone for a total of 20min if not less and of course I have been labeled a fanboy.. lol..). when I asked if they had WP phones on display the guy said “Why?”. I was astonished and said “well, because I’d like to try one”. He goes “But we sell a lot more Android and iPhone”. To which I, increasingly irritated snapped “I don’t care!”. Etc. :D Anyway, I finally got to play one, albeit it hadn’t been update to Mango, of course…

  • Sun Down

    I wish the N8 successor would come soon with WP7. At least a 12 MPx with Carl Zeiss? Preferrably 14 MPx, I get a bit sensitive on the noise level.

    • Jay Montano

      If they had managed it that would have kept their WP distinctly ahead of everyone elses. The N8 camera is still top but others are slowly getting closer.

      Though in low light they are all shite vs N8. Only n82 can sit next to n8.

  • kamal

    It is a good BTL strategy(below the line marketing).Nokia was poor,but now they are learning quickly.Need of the hour is to leverage this in other markets as well,where N9 or other symbian belle phones are selling.

  • Jalpatine

    The Nokia WP is great. And “heard” before I used one that Zune is just a piece of crap. Don’t know what Zune I have been using… Mine does the job just like any other sync tool. :)

    • migo

      Well, in all fairness, it’d be nice to use the tool of your choice.

  • larryg968

    i have a question for jay or anyone else who tink they r capable of answering

    jay noted that people will buy nokia for several reasons including brand, antennae reception, design etc. I think thw glaring obvious comparison here is motorola. Motorola might not have been as good as nokia but they had superior brand recognition in the usa and people have fonder memories of the razr than any Nokia phone.

    What happened to Motorola? This is what happens when u stick your sail to one company.

    I have another example from a different industry. Dell

    in the early part of the last decade dell was the brand to get. Americans will remember this ad: dude, ur getting a dell.

    Dell had superior brand, exceptional supply chain great hardware. Where is Dell now?

    A company cannot sustain long term differentiation based on hardware design, supply chain logistics and especially cheaper product.

    Im not saying the decision to use wp is wrong but based on past evidence from the beginning of modern industrial companies says otherwise

    so, my question is, what do u tink will happen to nokia.

    If u love nokia as much as u claim, u would not be sipping on elop’s cool aid bcuz there is one likely outcome for this situation. Look at dell, hp, motorola. Not of these companies see doing well. Look at htc, they issued a sales warning recently. Hardware competition is futile, all the money is in software. In the end, one hardware companies will remain highly profitable apple, maybe samsung.

    • Jay Montano

      Tell me Larry, as an outsider, just a writer of a blog, what do you think I could do that could have any impact what so ever in Nokia’s decision to go with WP?

      Shall I just nark on incessantly about how Elop is the devil and that he’s a traitor and that February 11 is wrong and sit in the corner rocking back and forth?

      You tell me what you want me to do since what ever I will be wrong or an insufficient answer as always if in any way it shows positivity to a Nokia WP.

      Go ahead.

      • larryg968

        i said clearly that i don’t think the decision t o choose wp was wrong so i tink u might have misread my comment

        i don’t tink elop is the devil and i don’t think he is a traitor. Im not jumping to any assumptions. All i did was state the facts. Notice i didnt mention feb 11 or anything, u brought it up.

        All im saying is look at the facts and im asking a direct questions, what do u tink the outcome will be?

        I implied no criticism toward wp and i tink a lot of the apps u showed r cool/ interesting. Wp has a great ui paradigm(except the tiles)

        • migo

          What’s wrong with waiting and seeing what the outcome is?

    • Bob

      Hate to break the news to you but the decision has been made, products have shipped and are now in happy customers hands.

      You lost.

      Move on.

      p.s. Great positive attitude you have there.

      Jay, don’t know how you do it, this site is followed by a bunch of bitter conspiracy theorist nutters stuck in the past.

      • larryg968

        what r u talking about, im looking towards the future. Im pretty sure there r a lot of happy customers, i didnt dispute that.

        I wasn’t aware i was competing for anything to have lost. Nokia will do fine without my business and thats great. Either way, i don’t tink 1 incremental sale to me would affect their bottom line.

        I posited an argument/ issue, your response is juvenile at best

        • kan

          Larry – all good points – don’y pay attention to Bob he think he is this Blog police force.

          Jay makea a valid point – he writes this blog out of interest and good for him.

          You are right over time the advantages in hardware get eroded. If Apple was another box shifter selling Windows it could survive but as a niche brand. If you want to sell volume and you are not producing your own software then the barriers to entry are low – MS will licence the s/w to anyone and ODM will churn out a phone for you then staying ahead of the hardware game becomes a spec war.

          What is likely to pan out is that the smarthphone market will increase, RIM customers will move to other ecosystems, WP will increase in volume. When the market rapid growth slows down and other companies enter the market you will then see fierce competition driving hardware profits down.

          • larryg968

            Yea, i kno that profit will fall in the long run, but for now im happy to ride the gravy train. Since elop sent the stock plummeting, i decided to hop on after see the lumia 800. I wouldnt buy it but i imagine many people will be satisfied with the product.

            I tink once most of the developed world has a smartphone which will be 5 years max, margins will get squeezed. Until then, i thank elop for his restructuring. I’ve been waiting to buy the stock for about a year

            Either way, i tink its a good short term strategy. If he as smart as he seems maybe nokia can maintain high margins but i doubt it. I tink hes all talk

            • kan

              Yeah as a short term strategy there is some upside but long term I dont see it. If its about ecosystems and the world settles to 3 main ones then unless Nokia pulls a disruption out of the bag they will end up becoming another box shifter.

  • larryg968

    btw, i think ur doing a great job at mynokiablog and u should continue. People want nokia phones, wp, whatever. It doesnt matter.

    I was just hoping for some relevant logical counter arguments.

    I’ve also said this before, i want them to be successful since i own some stock. Just bcuz i won’t buy the phone doesnt mean i cant profit

    • kan

      I hope you didnt have stock in any recent months – it’s taken a pounding.

      I think there is upside for Nokia especially as it seems likely they will unwind their disasterous joint venture with siemens.

  • mussab

    Great news.

    The WP OS was an obvious winner, but it was in the shadows.

    Now that it’s in people’s hands it started to get the recognition it deserves.

    Nokia has done much of the job of bringing WP to the sun with the Lumia and its campaign.

    Now why would people choose Lumia over other Windows Phones?

    It doesn’t matter that they choose Lumia at this point, as long as they switch to the ecosystem, because even if Lumia reached 100% of WP sales it would mean nothing with the current OS share.

    So, the ecosystem is the main attraction, and after that we can talk about devices.

    Lumia has many winning factors against other WP devices.

    Most importantly:

    1) Quality
    2) Feel and design
    3) Free Services (Music, Navigation, Sports Tracker, …)

    Design is underrated, it’s amazing how can an additional color change the minds of many consumers these days.

    Yes, you get the same quality and design with the N9, but the N9 comes with a totally different ecosystem, and we are talking about Lumia against other WP devices.

    It’s just the start, and if you think it appears good now, imagine how it will be with the new Metro Xbox, the new Nokia flagship, WP Apollo, and lastly, the launch of Windows 8.

    And in a world full of Metro, it’s hard to see Nokia fail.

    • Viipottaja

      +1, pretty much.

      Other thant the last point perhaps – Nokia has been capable of messing things up in the past but hopefully they have learned some lessons. :)

    • migo

      You’re right. An additional colour is a big deal. And guess what, the 710 brings in lots of additional colours!

      That’ll be such an easy sale for some people. Choose black or white for the main frame, then choose a back plate to suit your outfit/accessories, and change the tile colour to match the back plate. Instant win. You won’t even need to say anything else.

  • BellGo

    I don’t get this..According to these people the Lumia is selling very, very well, right?

    Then why do I keep hearing news like this;

    According to Exane BNP Paribas the Lumias are selling so badly, that operators have lovered the price by 60%.

    Source; http://www.digitoday.fi/mobiili/2011/12/05/kaytetyn-lumian-saa-pilkkahintaan/201118368/66

    (another Finnish source)

    • finnish guy

      “operators have lovered the price by 60%.”
      This is not true if you read the article. It says you can find “second hand” Lumia from ebay with 60% discount. Second, you CAN’T find many in ebay, check if you dont believe.
      btw. Iphone etc. are even cheaper (up to 70% discount).
      The whole article is Bullshit.

      • BellGo

        Ah, thanks for telling me.

    • john

      Hmmm, the ebay price for the lumia 800 is around £300 or less also, not good. Ebay is usually a good indicator of the street value and also what the operator price is.

      Maybe this is the value of a WP7.5 phone, HTC titan is around the same.

      Its nowhere near the NExus\Iphone4s price.

      Have to say myself that I like the WP7.5 style, but dont like the baby icons on the front screen at all.

  • Edmund

    Doesn’t matter to me if it’s wp symbian or meego but always glad they succeed.. They really need to be around to keep mobile industrial design on their toes since they really get it right most of the time in a sea f increasingly similar competitor designs (ok I know this is subjective), although they may have good software..

    • migo

      Nokia just needs to be around for those of us who care about reception and call quality. Ever since the iPhone reviewers stopped doing any thorough testing of that. They look at signal attenuation based on how you hold the phone post iPhone 4, but they don’t test what the quality is at a base level in various types of locations.

      It’s so bloody bad that I can’t even find out if a phone from another brand is any good. Nokia at least is consistent in that department, from the lowest end S30 phones up to their top end ones, at least the reception and call quality is good, even if the rest of the phone ends up sorely lacking.

  • lordstar

    Okay, after reading all of the comments I can see that the Feb 11 memo has definitely put a rift between the Symbian/Meego lovers and the pro wp7 nokia users. I, for one, am a Symbian fan and I am still hoping that the N8 successor will be on the Symbian platform as to bring back the recognition that symbian deserves. All it needed was a refreshed UI and belle does that.

    But thinking about what would be best for Nokia, I am starting to get the sense as to why Nokia decided to go for WP7 mango. From other mobile websites, people have such a negative perception on Symbian that they are totally disregarding the updates and the improvements on the platform. Obviously, Symbian is mostly known with the n97 disaster and the laggy symbian 3 days of the platform. Coming from this, anything that people hear about Symbian would be bad.

    So it made sense to change platform and introduce a new one such as the wp7 mango. Nokia knew from the start that they have an edge in terms of design and the nostalgia of using a Nokia device. Coming from that, Nokia took advantage of the excellent design of the N9 and put the windows phone platform in it as to change the perception of people about Nokia. With regards to the WP7 smartphone strategy,I think it is more about getting new customers who are using a different device rather than convincing Old Symbian users to shift to the windows phone platform ’cause that would be a different strategy as well.

    The Lumia brand needs the huge marketing push, Nokia needed to tell the world that this Nokia device aint running Symbian. Because of that, a lot of people are considering the phone and are “looking at Nokia with fresh eyes again”. That for me, is an advantageous move as it helped changed the perspective of people about Nokia. Here lies the challenge though, Nokia totally forgot about the number of Symbian fans and supporters. You couldn’t convince a symbian user to switch to wp7 mango with just a gorgeous device.

    From the majority of what I read, Symbian users choose to stick with Symbian and I get that, only a few would decide to change to wp7. Considering the number of features, Symbian would totally be at an advantage because of its age. But with such a negative experience and reputation Symbian is easily disregarded. Only a symbian power user would consider and promote the improvements and changes of the platform.

    I think one solution for this situation is to commit to both platforms. Yes, we know that Symbian will be supported until 2016 but what will happen to the platform by then? The uncertainty with the platform’s future is such a big factor as to why the majority of the market is stating that Symbian is dead and no one would choose to decide to purchase a device with a dead platform. The burning platform memo and uncertain future of Symbian contributed to the decline in sales of Nokia. Nokia needs to explicitly reassure the symbian users that they are commited to the platform until whatever time. Giving a deadline(2016) to a platform is such a big mistake. Users right now are considering the long term factor of a mobile device with all the software updates coming in from time to time.

    I would love to discuss the supposed plan of Nokia before to go Symbian Meego and QT = ecosysytem but it would be pointless because it won’t be implemented due to Elop’s decisions.

    What Nokia could do now is to please both the old and the new Nokia fans. I welcome the new windows phone seven smartphone strategy, but I think that Nokia also has to support old symbian fans. Considering the Nokia fanbase, we are now more diverse, we have the symbian/meego fans and the WP7 users. What Nokia could do is to take advantage of the different preferences of Nokia buyers and promote both platforms equally with the same support and marketing. In that way, Nokia would gain market share once more and all Nokia buyers would be satisfied.

    • Viipottaja

      Good points there. I think though that Nokia probably assumes that some/many? current Symbian users might be willing to switch to WP IF/WHEN someo of the features Symbian users love get integrated to WP. OBVIOUSLY not all of them will and not all/most? Symbian users will be willing to make that switch. But if one does assume that some/many will, telling that Symbian too will be supported indefinitely would weaken the strategic shift that was made, and _might_ in that sense backfire.

    • migo

      Symbian needs more than a refreshed UI, it needs to bring back all the devs that were burned by Symbian Signed.

      Good luck with that. If Nokia can pull that off, I’d applaud them. But it’s important to keep that in perspective, you can’t just give Symbian a fresh coat of paint. In certain aspects it’s rotten to the core. If it can’t be fixed in 4 years, then discontinuing it in 2016 is the right decision. If they can fix it, nobody will suggest they stick to the original plan.

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  • http://runningdigital.com David Hroncheck

    Something to think about when considering what Nokia “owes” their loyal smartphone fans: You mean very little to Nokia’s future. Nokia cannot, and should not, appease you when there are a billion potential new smartphone owners in the world.

    Rough numbers, but in 2008 smartphones represented less than ten percent of the overall handset market, probably less than five. Nokia’s true fans (the bloggers, Beta Labs testers, Symbian experts…ME) were in that piece of the pie-chart. Now in late 2011, the pie is much, much bigger. So is the ratio of smartphones to feature phones. Meanwhile, both Apple and Samsung pass Nokia on smartphone marketshare, in spite of Gartner’s generous-to-Nokia smartphone definition.

    Still a Nokia fan? If you’re not an employee, developer or a stockholder, I just don’t understand the loyalty to this or any corporation; Apple, Google, whatever.

    Be a fan of innovation. Be a fan of tech. Don’t settle.

    • Jay Montano

      If you’re not an employee, developer or a stockholder, I just don’t understand the loyalty to this or any corporation.

      - Maybe some people can just be fans of brands end off. Regardless of what’s happening sometimes. Like a football team. You love them when you win, though you feel for them when they lose.

      I think for some there’s a connection of Nokia being the first, or Nokia being amongst the greats and being inspired by that and continuing to support them.

      For me, I like them for what they have shown they can do and knowing the potential they still have to bring the A game. They have been the innovators of this mobile space, mobile internet, mobile gaming, apps, smartphones in general, cameras, imaging, internet services – it’s just a shame they weren’t truly able to execute on all those amazing, forward thinking ideas that now we have come to use daily but associate with other brands.

      You don’t have to be an employee, a developer, a stock holder, have any financial ties to like a company. You might just like them and be a fan of them. I’m enjoying the journey. The ups and the scary downs.

      There are many reasons to like a company like Nokia and many people can have different reasons which are all ok. There are some, the crazy ones, that like them for better or worse, lol.

      As for “owes” their loyal smartphone fans”.
      What would have preferable to have happened? Remembering that Nokia is also a business and not some charity for Symbian fans.

    • migo

      As long as Nokia puts the phone first in their phones, that is, good reception and call quality, I’ll be loyal to Nokia. That’s fundamentally all I care about, since I use my phone to talk a lot. Especially since no other manufacturer seems to care about it.

  • Ashley

    I like my new Lumia phone!
    Most people I show it to like it also, especially the people hub, which baring a bit of editing and combining of contacts is great for FB and Twitter!
    Ash
    PS I used to like Trolls!

  • BrianF

    It’s great to see so many retailers loving the phone and speaking so highly about it. Well done Nokia for finally showing us what you can do. I hope to get one once my N8 contract expires.

    • Doffen

      Indicates that they get a good bonus for every WP phone sold! Personally i do not trust sales personnel at all unless I know the incentives.

      • migo

        Who cares? Nokia’s doing well. That’s what matters.

  • symbego

    die die die WP

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