$200 Million Dollar advertising for Nokia Windows Phone…just for USA.

| January 4, 2012 | 107 Replies

Paul Thurott of WinSupersite is back again trying to correct some news spreading in the blogosphere of the $100M USD budget for the Nokia Ace launch.

Apparently, Nokia and Microsoft’s budget is a little more than that…$200M USD. What’s more, it’s just for USA, currently its most crucial market.

In the market we’re in, good products can still wither and die if consumers have no idea it exists. Nokia needs to give their devices presence, clarity, desirability. Simple, basic common sense advertising stuff that unfortunately Nokia hasn’t really understood until recently. There’s going to me more engagement with tech enthusiast, more work with retail to EDUCATE sales people on Windows Phone so they can effectively inform consumers, hey Nokia Windows Phones exist and they’re pretty good to use and are a decent alternative to Android and iPhone.

There will apparently be sales incentives of around $10-15 per handset sold.

Apparently on AT&T, Nokia’s marketing budget vs MS is 2:1. Well, it is going to be Nokia’s product.

Thurott has more details he’s apparently had for weeks, but he doesn’t want to spoil the official announcements at CES. It’s just like before he apparently wanted to set the record straight due to, ” simply parroted between all the gadget blogs and then, inevitably, to the increasingly lazy mainstream news as well. So let’s at least get it right.”

Source: winsupersite

Cheers all for the tip!

 

Category: Lumia, Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com

Comments (107)

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  1. stylinred says:

    rofl that’s a major gamble to spend so much to try and get a market share

    and considering the odds…. this sounds like a losing game from the get go

    • Viipottaja says:

      Well, folks have loved to complain how Nokia never marketed enough in NAM. At least they are now doing it with real carrier support to boot.

      With AT&T “Hero” device status and direct incentives to the retail staff there is almost guaranteed to be some uptake in sales – the question is how much of course.

      Let’s just wait and see the NAM/US Nokia results after q2/q3. :)

      • Johnny Tremaine says:

        I can just see younger U.S. phone buyers staring at Nokia commercials and AT&T marketing: “Hey bro, what’s a No-Kia? Is that like those little Korean chick cars?”

    • John says:

      ;) “Nokia’s decision to jump into bed with Microsoft is looking like a smart move. At the moment Microsoft has a great product that nobody uses (somewhere between one and six per cent of the market, depending on who you ask). Almost exactly 10 years ago it was in a very similar position with its new Xbox games console. Sony’s PlayStation was flying high and Nintendo had its hardcore fan-base. So Microsoft threw money at the problem. Lots of it. It made a significant loss on each unit sold but, slowly, it chipped away at the competition. It is now the clear leader in the console space and neither Sony nor Nintendo look likely to catch up any time soon. While a repeat of the financial promiscuity demonstrated back then is unlikely, rest assured Microsoft will make WP7 work.” http://www.cityam.com/forum/nokia-s-lumia-has-made-me-see-it-new-light

      • John says:

        I have read that article and I actually think its one of the more sensible/credible reasons as to Windows Phone’s struggles.

        People especially geeks/ tech community often talk about how specs and features have let down Wp7 when they fail to realise cultural influences or the “coolness” factor has maybe a much bigger factor especially to people not into tech or just want a working smartphone.

        People also fail to realise the name Apple will sell anything today, that doesn’t mean Apple are bad in fact far from it they make amazing so I dont blame, but again people need to realise that.

        All I am saying is company perception is HUGE thing right now we are living in a world where Apple Facebook Google are cool anyone else isn’t.

        • MyNokiaLife says:

          Tell us why one of the top ten searches on google is: how to cancel my facebook account.

          Here today, gone tomorrow. Same for Apple without Jobs and Google. How can cool be Android(a robot cartoon), ice cream sandwich (WTF?)and go bing google new store in australia. Cool is not kids marketing once you get past 12.

        • N00-00 says:

          Agree 100%. The brand perception of MS & Windows aren’t good.

          Some market researchers say that one of the reason Xbox succeeded is because there wasn’t any Microsoft or one of its products name along with it in its marketing or on the console. It does contain the MS name in small text but they said not many look too deeply into those texts.

    • MyNokiaLife says:

      Just put a deposit on a Ace at my local ATT store. I see google has been caught in a paid blogger campaign. How much do they pay you guy? It says google pays per post you are responded to. How much? Come on, you can tell us.

      • kay says:

        the phone ain’t even announced yet, how is that possible?

        • MyNokiaLife says:

          I told her about it, she looked it up on the Computer but not the ATT order website. I gave her $200 for deposit and she said as soon as she gets the email from ATT about it’s possible order availability she will send in the order. I want to be first in my area. We are setting up a Nokia chapter in my area and would go around and teach students and people with some cash how easy it is to use the Nokia Windows compared to Apple and Google. How beautiful and cool the phones are to hold and look at. In time grow the chapter to multiple states and with a small membership fee’s advertise the Nokia brand in ways never though of throughout the chapter area. Die Apple and Bilderberg Google, die. Sorry got carried away.

    • Guest says:

      Remember what Microsoft did with Xbox? At first no one had one and MS just kept throwing money on it for years. Now it’s the most popular console.

  2. Just Visiting says:

    Well, the other report from Betanews indicated that although the amount was $100 million, it was a not just a Microsoft/Nokia push, but also an ATT push as well.

    So, until Microsoft and/or Nokia officially state that this money is solely from their budget, I’m going to go with the earlier report that alludes to a joint effort.

    Besides, no way is Microsoft and/or Nokia going to use their money advertise and push AT&T’s LTE network!

    • Viipottaja says:

      To me this sentence in Thurott’s piece implies that its indeed a joint effort with AT&T/carriers:

      “And on AT&T at least, Nokia is outspending Microsoft 2-to-1.”

  3. Just Visiting says:

    And another thing…I really think that Nokia/Microsoft/ATT should wait to see how sales progress with the Lumia BEFORE they start to offer incentives.

    This device, in my opinion, should be able to sell itself – the device is attractive enough, and has plenty of appeal – even if a sales person wanted to push an Android device, they would ‘back down’ if a customer really wanted the Lumia!

    I think that the Lumia 9## will not be denied it’s marketshare, and that incentives really aren’t necessary; but, if incentives are going to be offered, I think that they should kick in ONLY IF Lumia sales for ATT trend towards ‘low’.

    • Heron says:

      The problem is, both MS and Nokia doesn’t want the scenario of Lumia 900 not selling well to happen. Remember that both companies have zero mindshare in the US right now, and they want to score a small but important victory over the other 2 rivals in this market.

      Besides, what MS and Nokia needs is the user base. They probably feel that in order for the ecosystem to grow even faster so that the apps count is a moot point by the time they are done, users have to be there for developers to come to the WP7 platform. This is what they are counting on.

      • Viipottaja says:

        +1. Given that, AFAIK, Android OEMs and Apple too pay direct incentives to retail staff, offering the incentive is just levelling the playing field a bit.

        I’ve had my hands on a WP exactly twice for a total of about 20 min so far. One time as at an AT&T store. I walk in, and ask to see a WP phone. The guy says “Why?”. Me: “I would just like to see how it looks.” Guy “We sell a lot more Android and iPhone”. Me (increasingly irritated): “I don’t care!”. Guy: “Ok.. this way..”. So if the potential incentives can make guys like that one at least not start questioning/borderline coercing a potential to the other platforms, great for Nokia. :)

        • Just Visiting says:

          @ Viipottaja…I hear you, and Heron…I just don’t like it that these sales people have to be paid ‘extra’ to do their jobs – which is selling the device/platform that best suits the customer, which means not to pushing their (salesperson) favorite OS (Android or iOS).

          I’ve read on other posts where ATT sales persons have chimed in(those who actually like WP) and they have stated that they do not get incentives to push the other OSes – that their bonuses come from pushing the add on services. I would love to read an official statement by the telecoms or even the oems that confirm that they pay incentives to the carrier employees to sell their devices; otherwise, imo, the push for Android/iOS is simply bias in favor of those OSes, and bias against WP.

          • Heron says:

            But no salesperson can be said to be truly objective. And whether we like it or not (I don’t), it is needed for Nokia to do this. They are working from a position of weakness now, after all. If $200 million can get them a foothold in this market, it will be money well-spent, because they need more users. Just like what Android did.

  4. Heron says:

    Rolling Thunder phase 1, with the 710 was just but a taste of Nokia’s fightback. Phase 2 with Lumia 900 leading the charge is the real deal.

    Nokia and MS are in this together. They need to install the user base ASAP, and this is one of the faster ways to do it.

  5. observer says:

    I wonder how much of this is in the form of a discount to AT&T off the wholesale price of the handsets?

    If they’re talking about $10 per handset, that means they are intending to sell about 20M devices, or about 20% market share?

    Sounds implausible.

    • Heron says:

      Perhaps not. Considering how even Apple only moved 17 million units of its much vaulted iPhones in Q3 2011(a slow quarter, but still), it’s probably more of offsetting the advertisements AT&T will make, training the salespeople, and buying a prominent space for the WP phones to be placed at in the store.

      I suspect the 3 companies are going to do a campaign that will rival the Droid campaign. The main problem I envision, is whether will people buy into the marketing, which is likely to be an extension of the Amazing Everyday campaign.

      • BellGo says:

        You are talking about the most successful smartphone ever made, when you stated those numbers..

        Simply put there is NO WAY that the Nokia 9XX is going to sell 20 million.

      • Johnny Tremaine says:

        I have my doubts. They can spend all they want on marketing, but if they don’t ‘get’ their audience, it won’t matter.

        For one, as we all know, Microsoft can’t do consumer marketing outside of the Xbox. It’s been shown over and over and over.

        Second, Nokia has been away from the U.S. market for a decade. If they present the same UK Amazing Everyday themed commercials, they’ll flop on arrival.

        To get a big bang, they’ll need to go for the top: repeated commercials during the first quarter and halftime of the Super Bowl.

    • Viipottaja says:

      My guess the subsidies are a separate budget, if there are any direct subsidies (i.e. it may well just be in the form of a good wholesale unit price to AT&T).

  6. Heron says:

    I should also add that if Apple starts to air more spots over the TV in response to the Amazing Everyday campaign, it’s time to rejoice.

  7. inept says:

    If memory serves, Microsoft spent upwards of $500M marketing Windows Phone 7 last year and it got them absolutely nowhere. The big TV spots seemed like they were popular and they got a good deal of buzz, but they didn’t actually do a good job of selling the wares. I’ll bet you that plenty of people remember the ads, but that very few of them even come close to thinking of Microsoft when it comes to buying a new phone.

    Hopefully something was learned from that failed advertising campaign or this new one will be throwing good money after bad.

    The sales incentives are a good idea.

    • Johnny Tremaine says:

      I agree.

      Yes, I know that the iPhone and Android initially had few apps, but that’s moot in 2012.

      When Windows Phone doesn’t have an ESPN or NFL.com Fantasy Football application during this sports season, that cuts out a wide swath of the young U.S. male demographic, right there.

      For those not in the know, FF is a popular sports themed pasttime in the States, where one trades players, creates rosters and competes in virtual games with friends and other players, for real prize money.

      • Viipottaja says:

        well, hopefully the Nokia exclusive ESPN app has that built in. :D not that I personally care.

        • Johnny Tremaine says:

          Doubtful. Fantasy Football contains a very specific set of actions and requirements that can’t just be bundled in a general ESPN app.

          On iOS and Android both ESPN’s and the official NFL version are specifically just for FF.

          The only one that I know about on Windows Phone is a single indie developer homebrew unofficial fantasy football app, that can’t do what the official versions can.

        • incognito says:

          On a side note – one has to calculate the latest controversy around the SOPA, tho. ESPN is a strong supporter of it, and given how little it took to crush GoDaddy, I wonder if people will revolt against ESPN as well.

          Don’t think it would affect Nokia sales, but in this time advertising something that openly supports SOPA is not really wise… Or am I living in too closed tech circle and the general population have no idea what the hell is SOPA nor who supports it?

  8. deep space bar says:

    this is like and asshole friend giving you money to make him look good -_-

    • Jay Montano says:

      This, I think, is just business. Many right actions long overdue. Nokia gets whined upon if they don’t market aggressively in the US, Nokia gets whined upon if they do market aggressively in the US. :)

      • deep space bar says:

        they already have and this wont help at all

        • Viipottaja says:

          Nokia has already what? marketed aggressively in the US? where, when, what? I must have completely missed it! :D

      • N00-00 says:

        Putting such a big amount on advertising in a market which has been negative to the brand for the last few years on a product which hasn’t taken off even after a huge promotion (Noone can deny it. WP7.X has been a failure even after the release of Mango. Also Nokia Lumai 800\710 was planned to be released in 5-6 markets for Q4 2011 but more were added later on as the demand wasn’t as much as Nokia expected) isn’t a great business idea.. Nokia is risking its very existence with this, IMO.. If this doesn’t take off, Nokia’s Q2\Q3 results would be a disaster especially when its losing sales (let alone market share) in its core markets and it would be hard to get out that mess.. For MS, WP7.X will be just failed product like WM6.X and Kin and they’ll just close down it and carry on like nothing happened).

        And before anyone starts slating Symbian for this, Symbian was actually selling well before the Feb’11 announcement in markets like India\China even though Nokia’s market share was declining. The announcement saw rapid decline in sales which only recovered in Apr\May when Elop officially announced in China that Symbian will be supported until 2016..

        • deep space bar says:

          yep why do you think Elop cancelled the early phase out for Symbian….cause they know it will save them in the future like always.I`ve been telling everyone about this from time and people take it as if i`m a troll or some uneducated schmuck….but it`s showing more and more every month that Windows is screwing with people just like before

        • Viipottaja says:

          Just to add a bit of nuance, according to Stretegy Analytics the whole China smartphone market contracted 8% in Q2 and then recovered in Q3. So it was certainly not _only_ Elop’s statements at play with regard to China.

          • N00-00 says:

            I don’t have the links right now but Nokia’s sales fell about 40% in March 2011 and was going the same way in Apr until Elop’s announcement in end April.. The 8% contraction may be a part of this but Nokia sales were collapsing at even bigger rate in between Feb and April last year.

            • Viipottaja says:

              yes, Nokia fell a lot more. what the impact of the “support till 2016″ statement (which was btw, not a cancellation of anything, just a clarification/statement of a pricese timeline and may have little to do e.g. on how long new devices will come out) was on Nokia’s q3 recovery in China is IMHO unclear though.

              • N00-00 says:

                I think the 702T & T7 which were released in Q3 may have helped in the recovery. The new Belle devices (which went on sale in September – not sure when they were released in China though) too contributed to the cause.

              • RJC says:

                ““support till 2016″ statement (which was btw, not a cancellation of anything, just a clarification/statement of a pricese timeline and may have little to do e.g. on how long new devices will come out)”

                Oh man… I see spinning things isn’t a new thing for you. Have you ever considered a career in politics? ;)

                • Viipottaja says:

                  It’s just a fact. On Feb 11 it was quite clearly stated that Symbian will phase out over time. A week or so later in Barcelona the statement was further clarified. And then in China a definitive timeline was given (btw, coincidentally (?) that was shortly after the contract with Accenture was finalized). To say “Elop cancelled the early phase out for Symbian ” is what is spinning, not what I said. :)

  9. Marc says:

    WHY do I prefer my Nokia w/Symbian? Because it doesn’t ask me to sell my digital soul to MS’s Communicator, AT&T’s contracts, Apple iWhatever or Android only apps. I want a phone, not a engagement ring.
    Call me a phone slut. I’ll proudly wear that scarlet letter :)

    • jcar302 says:

      While i see your point, at the pace symbian is disappearing if nokia didn’t make a move in a couple of years nokia’s handset division would be gone.

      I too like the freedom, but not at the cost of the entire company.
      If the 900 is all it’s cracked up to be, i’ll be renewing my contract with ATT for the first time since the 6682.

      I’m ready for a phone that does everything pretty good, not just a phone that does some things really great and some really terrible.

      • incognito says:

        Even if they didn’t do absolutely nothing and left that disconnected-from-the-world tool OPK as a CEO, they would be in far, far better position now. The change was needed, nobody will argue with that, but the execution was so, so horrible that it put the diminishing of Nokia into the 5th gear.

        I don’t think WP could be their savior, I didn’t think it then, and after the avalanche after the transition started I’m even more convinced that it was a huge mistake that will find it’s way into MBA books as an example of catastrophic decisions. But that’s just my take on it, that doesn’t mean that I am right.

        However, one thing that really can’t be argued is that they executed that change of strategy so horribly that it was better for them to do nothing, than to do it like this. Sure, if Nokia didn’t announce their `we’re betting it all on WP` decision back then, the question is whether the WP would even exist now, so the idea of them working in silence on their WP line is maybe not the best approach either, but purely looking from Nokia’s best interest – they would be far better off now. Now, looking from Microsoft’s POV, that wouldn’t really be dandy for them, but then again, given that on this blog most of us are, to some extent, Nokia loyalists – why should we even care about Microsoft.

        Now we have a crazy situation – if WP fails, Microsoft will just move on, Nokia will disappear. Nokia can’t even do another 180 degrees turn anymore without imploding. They brought it on themselves, tho.

  10. N00-00 says:

    This feels like MS’s last ditch effort to promote WP7.X..

    • Johnny Tremaine says:

      Yeah, it does have a whiff of desperation about it, which might make consumers stay even further away from the platform.

      • N00-00 says:

        This actually reminds me the Windows Mobile 6.x scenario where they pushed WM6.5 a lot for few months and when they just realised that it wasn’t going to make any inroads, they just pulled the plugs.

        Another “rumour” I heard over the last couple of months was that end of 2012 will govern whether WP lives or not. MS stakeholders aren’t happy with the spending on WP so far and has given end of 2012 (few months after the release of Apollo) as the deadline for WP to make any inroads. If they still don’t make enough inroads, MS will pull the plug early 2013. As I said, it is just a rumour I heard.

        • Heron says:

          Let’s hope the good name of Nokia can make some inroads to this weirdly insular market.

          • RJC says:

            The good name of Nokia? In the USA? American media has been bashing Nokia for a long time now. I doubt that Nokia has a good name in there.

            • N00-00 says:

              Nokia’s name got tarnished in the last few years because of Symbian. The US media have a hate towards Symbian (don’t exactly know why). The N8 wasn’t reviewed properly by them because of this.

              Nokia’s image was on the mend in the US mediasphere when the N9 was announced.. They were amazed at what Nokia can do.. Hopefully this may have helped in the brand image issue..

  11. John says:

    Gosh that sounds a lot shows how much of a struggle it is to gain any minshare, I am not sure buying marketshare is the way to go but then again there isn’t anything else Microsoft and Nokia can do. Apollo definitely cant come quick enough.

    The problem is how can Nokia and Microsoft convince ordinary smartphone users who are already satisfied with their iPhone or Android device to switch to Wp7 thats a tough ask.

    The Mobile industry seems to consolidate on two Mobile OS’s Android where the network can do what the hell they want with it and iOS a closed system but Apples arrogance and name will convince any network carrier.

    Then there is Nokia Microsoft two bruised and battered vetereans with a surprisingly good OS that networks cant modify and neither company poses a Steve Jobs type person that can bully themselves onto the prominent shelves.

    Only time will tell :-D

    • Viipottaja says:

      Just to add that its not _only_ about switching from one OS to another. The US phone market today is “only” about 35-40% smartphones so there are still a lot of potential smartphone users still in the remaining 60-65% _also_. Of course, Android and iOS are in a good position to grab even more from that too.

      • John says:

        Yes its important to point that out, there opportunities for Nokia but there is also for Apple and Google

      • RJC says:

        WP7 hasn’t been able to grab those coming from dumb phones so far. Not only that, but Microsoft have pretty much lost their old Windows Mobile users to others. If they can’t even keep their own user base, then how are they going to gain outsiders?

    • incognito says:

      Apart from the UI, there really isn’t a big difference in the approach between Microsoft and Apple – in fact, in that situation I favor Apple more as at least your apps execute native on the hardware instead of going through additional layer of the interpreter increasing resource usage and possibility of screw up. On paper, Apple’s got a better platform (strictly structurally speaking). Given the market share and staggering amount of apps, iOS is more than a clear winner compared to WP7.

      Now, if we take the assumption that Android users are either disgruntled iOS users that got sick of the Apple’s control and `we know what’s best for you` attitude, or the ones that couldn’t afford to pay Apple tax, and that Android is overselling iOS devices 5 to 1 atm. – how can Microsoft (and Nokia) even hope to gain any significant market share copying Apple’s strategy?

      If you have the money, and you don’t mind anti-consumer ecosystems – iOS is a clear choice, why would you go for the premium Nokia device with WP on board in that case? If you don’t have the money (or a desire to burn it, anyway), you can go for Lumia 710, but at that price there are better choices even within the WP arena. And if you don’t want to lease your device, but rather own it, you won’t consider neither WP nor iOS.

      Sure, there are still enough uninitiated people to the ways of a smartphone, but given the current constellation, and the fact that WP doesn’t bring anything new to the table (quite the contrary) apart from the UI that can be either adored or hated, it’s not really sun n’ roses for the WP.

      I’d even dare to claim that Nokia might have better chances with Symbian Belle and Maemo/MeeGo even on the USofA market well know for the hatred towards Symbian, than with another me-too OS that is WP. Mind you, they would have an steep uphill battle as well, with no guarantees whatsoever, but I still think they would’ve have better chances with their old strategy.

      And that’s just the specific market of the USofA, in the rest of the world the picture with their current strategy is even gloomier…

  12. deep space bar says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walled_garden_%28technology%29

    I don`t Do Walled Gardens…thank you very much and i bet alot of you don`t either.

  13. jcar302 says:

    I hope they do the free xbox with order of a lumia like they did overseas.

    • deep space bar says:

      they did that already and…..they didn`t care too much about either …most went in for both so they can sell them for money LOL

      xbox is already well known for being the most expensive system on the market and weak OS marketshare + a shit desktop OS don`t help at all XD

      • Viipottaja says:

        on the first part: have a link to the survey that demonstrates this “most”? :)

        on the second part: expensive or not, Xbox is the market leader in the US so I guess rich folks must be buying a lot of them (to got with their iPhones perhaps). :)

    • Just Visiting says:

      @jcar302…I would rather see them continue with the $25 App Gift Card, or perhaps a free 3 month subscription to Zune Pass – apps are expensive on this platform, so that gift card would definitely be beneficial to alot of people :)

  14. Coen says:

    I live in Europe and have a Lumia 800 since a week. I love Nokia and hated Microsoft. But I am hooked now.. Like the iPhone it is all about user experience and design. A marketing campaign can only be succesfull if product is right. Nokia got it right. WP7 will be the third mobile OS.

  15. RJC says:

    “What’s more, it’s just for USA, currently its most crucial market.”

    I have to disagree. USA is not Nokia’s most crucial market. That’s China. The biggest smartphone market in the world and getting even bigger. If we look larger geographical areas, then it’s the whole Asia and Europe. USA is the least important for Nokia. Even Latin America is more important. USA’s importance has been overstated, like it always is in the interwebs where the US media is overrepresented. It creates an illusion that the world revolves around the USA. Well in reality it doesn’t.

    The money comes mostly from Asia and Europe, not from the USA. Nokia cannot afford to lose it’s real markets. But they can afford to lose the USA, they already lost it years ago. Practically no money is coming from there. And not much coming even if they can get some traction in there. The important markets will still be the same traditionally strong Nokia markets.

    Just think which would be worse for Nokia:
    They lose China this year or they lose the USA this year?

    Here are some Q3 results from Nokia to help:

    Europe 1 394 M €
    Greater China 1 240 M €
    Asia-Pacific 1 197 M €
    M.E. & Africa 957 M €
    Latin America 531 M €
    North America 73 M €

    • N00-00 says:

      Agree… But for the “new” Nokia, US seems to be the biggest market because US makes for the biggest stakeholders in the company and the “new strategy” revolves around US.. And it is willing to sacrifice its biggest market (China) for it.. The OS in the “new strategy” doesn’t go well with it yet..

    • Viipottaja says:

      Nokia needs to keep and grow China, but also go after the US. There is a alot of revenue and profit to made in the US (it is most probably still the largest smartphone market by value). IF Nokia gets traction in the US there is a lot of revenue to be made there _as well_.

      • Diibadaaba says:

        Everybody knows that it is much easier to keep market share rather than conquer market share. You know the saying about birds on the roof.

        My personal opinion is that Nokia should stay away from the US market where it is hated even without any market share. Even how they are going there is nothing but selling their dignity. They have to brand their phones and use WP as an operating system and still pay for most of the advertising.

        Funny enough I have the feeling that money could be easily spend better somewhere else.

        • Viipottaja says:

          Of course, and it will OF COURSE be difficult for Nokia to re-enter the US smartphone segment.

          However, I don’t think Nokia is hated here per se. More, its forgotten.

          Relatively few people actually have very negative experiences or even any direct experiences with Nokia (smartphones in particular) as they were not widely available or promoted in the recent years.

          Most companies pay for the advertising of their products so nothing too extraordinary about that. MS chips in, and probably much more than in most cases.

          • incognito says:

            A food for thought – Nokia’s miniscule market share in the USofA at least helped them once not to tarnish their brand – by not having the N97 available in the USofA. If that clusterfuck of a device was available/pushed there to a wide population, Nokia could hope to regain their name on the USofA soil when the hell freezes over.

            • Viipottaja says:

              Exactly. Of course, the extremely low end PAYG phones did not exactly strengthen the brand, but at least the brand is more “forgotten” than “spoiled” or “hated” right now. There are probably even some older folk (you know, those that had cell phones back in the early 2000s already :D ) that may still have some good memories of Nokia, even. :)

              • incognito says:

                Don’t forget that USofA was up until recently (and to some extent still) catching up to the whole cellular market – back in the early 2000s Japan and Europe were light years ahead of the USofA regarding mobile usage.

                I frequently traveled across the Atlantic pond back then and I was staggered time and time again on how small percentage of cell phone users were there, even in the NYC. So I don’t think there are many that remember Nokia as good and reliable from that period (Motorola was actually dominating that small market back then) – but, as I’ve said, that miniscule market share at least made most of the USofA population not to remember Nokia for bad either…

                • Viipottaja says:

                  True, and as I mentiond in another comment smartphone share of the overall market is still relatively low. Just to note that Nokia did have 35% of the US market in 2002.. but once the smartphone era started, they basically failed to get any real foothold at all.

        • Oh Hei says:

          Nokia isn’t hated in the U.S. – they simply don’t have a significant presence here. Perhaps the blogs aren’t fond of Symbian, but Nokia is not hated.

          As a matter of fact, general consumers remember Nokia quite fondly, and the very inexpensive $10 paygo phones are generally sold out. The Nokia name has not been forgotten, Nokia just needs to show that they do ‘classy and no so cheap’, which they will do with their WP/Lumia devices.

          • Diibadaaba says:

            Definetely is:

            http://bit.ly/phg0L9

            And their market share is non existant. How is this possible? Just stay away don’t sell yourself to somebody that is considering you as a threat even when it is going well. How did nokia loose its market share in the first place? Bad phones? Not really.

    • incognito says:

      Importance of the USofA market is not in the revenue, but in the brand image and general buzz about devices. Most respected and followed tech blogs and magazines out there are either based in the USofA, or are heavily influenced by them, and catering to the USofA market greatly improves your product visibility.

      That being said, unless Nokia does another 180 degrees turn, they cannot focus on the Chinese market anyway – WP is inherently, almost irreparably incapable of supporting non-Latin/Cyrillic LTR scripts – blame the Metro UI designers for not thinking broad enough and utilizing overzealous typography. I already talked about that about a week ago, so not to repeat myself: http://mynokiablog.com/2011/12/26/4-nokia-801t-symbian3-announced-for-china-td-scdma-with-tv-antenna-and-nfc/comment-page-1/#comment-410006

      Nokia has lost it in China, sad but true. The latest movement of their offices from Singapore to China won’t help much to remedy the situation. And it will take quite some time for the biggest operator there – China Mobile – to forgive them screwing their strategy revolving around MeeGo.

      • RJC says:

        Nokia did many years just fine without the US hype. I don’t think it needs it now either. As I said before, the world doesn’t revolve around the USA. It only seems that way when one mainly follows the English language western media. If the USA was so important, Nokia would have gone bankrupt a long time ago. The fact that it didn’t but was instead the biggest smartphone maker in the world, shows that one doesn’t need the US hype.

        It’s certainly good to have that hype as a bonus, but it’s not worth sacrificing China and rest of the world, like Nokia seems to be doing now. Nokia had a great reputation in China. Totally achieved without the US hype machine. Now that reputation is gone because of this crazy WP7 strategy.

        If Nokia has already lost China then it’s all over. They won’t gain anything with WP7 in China. As you said, WP7 in China is a lost cause.

        Well it was fun while it lasted (for the most part). I guess it’s time to start looking alternatives. iPhone is a definite no-no for me. How good is Android’s Ice Cream Sandwich? Have Google been able to fix Android’s problems?

        • N00-00 says:

          Asia & Africa were insulated from the US media influence until recently.. In those markets, Nokia got into a dominant position because of its reliability and product range.

      • snoflake says:

        Again Incognito hits it out the park. Revoltingly so badly has this transition and strategy change that I now find myself in the same camp as Tomi Ahonnen and even the Elop as Trojan conspiracy theoryites. Scary but there seems no rational explanation for what has been conducted so far other than an evisceration of Nokia to prop up Microsoft’s failing phone strategy because rather than speeding up release of a new flagship it now seem that when in Dec 2010 and Jan 2011 Nokia senior management must have been aware that the platform they were considering transitioning too (destroying there own in-house platforms in the process) was going to be incapable of producing an even semi viable top end flagship to take on the most profitable segment of the market for at least 18months (Jun 2012 earliest more like q3/q4). A situation which Nokia was unlikely to survive in the form it was then.

        The Eldar Nokia break up rumours look more and more credible as an only explanation of such wilful destruction, frankly it’s share price isn’t viable nor will it be able to survive the rumours such a low market cap leads to and hence it’s sales will get even worse (than already dismal levels) as potential customers shy away from a company in trouble (after all they’ve already broken all their pledges over Ovi services and walked away from leading to a vicious circle.

        Thank God I’m not a shareholder, oh bo**ox I am.

  16. TrollKnightRises says:

    Nokia is playing a big gamble…..Lumia900 should be named as Joker instead of an Ass

  17. Shaun says:

    I’ll believe this when Nokia issue a press release. Until then the last person on earth you should be following is Paul Thurrot. He makes Rob Enderle look credible.

  18. incognito says:

    Provided that the claim is true – what happened with that ‘Microsoft is covering Nokia’s expenses for marketing the Lumia line’ as many MS-shills and apologists are claiming? If the marketing budget is $200m, and Nokia is paying 2-to-1, that means that Nokia will be burning their own $130m+ on the campaign.

    Even if they could manage Applesque profits per device, i.e. around $100, do you really think they’ll be able to sell 2m of those devices on a saturated market where they barely have no presence, with an OS that barely anyone wants, in order to make at least some small profit?

    And even if they do, with $15 to Microsoft per WP license, they’ll be paying off what Microsoft is putting in. How in the world is that good deal for Nokia?

    • Oh Hei says:

      Well, it’s Nokia’s money (this $130 million that you state) – they should use it to promote and advertise their primary OS, which is Windows Phone.

      Incognito, wouldn’t your time be better spent on developing new apps? Your ranting isn’t going to make Symbian the primary OS again :)

    • Viipottaja says:

      1) No one with any knowledge or analytical thinking would ever think of claiming MS would pay all of Nokia’s WP marketing expenses. This simplified thinking probably started with these reports:
      http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-14/tech/30278508_1_andy-lees-microsoft-and-nokia-microsoft-s-windows-phone

      And it blatantly obvious that $30m is just a trickle of what is needed, globally.

      2) Nokia Ace marketing is not _only_ marketing ACe itself. Its about reintroducing the Nokia brand to the US market, act (at least the theory is) as a halo device that will induce sales of other Nokia WP phones as well etc.

      3) Part of Nokia strategy is to try to drive volume and market share even at the cost of margins – probably not to the extent of using Ace as a loss leader product but still.

      4) a) I’ve seen reports of the WP licencing fees ranging from $7 to $15. It is more likely than not that the Nokia one would be at the lower end of that; b) there are supposedly other monetary transfers as well so its hard to know exactly what the _net_ licensing fee is if one takes all of those into the calculation.

      • RJC says:

        To quote you, do you have any proof of this? It seems to me you are just throwing numbers and assumptions like anyone else without any proof. Proof that you are always so eagerly demanding from others. :)

        • Viipottaja says:

          Err… what exactly do you want proof of? That 1) global marketing campaigns tend to cost more than $30m? 2) that it’s not likely that MS would pay all of Nokia’s marketing costs? 3) that marketing campaings, in particular in a situation where a brand is is being reintroduced to a market, are more than about the product at hand 4) that the concept of a halo device and evidence of the effect of such devices exists? 5) that Nokia has stated they want to first drive WP volume? 6)that there have been reports that estimate that that the WP licencing fees vary by OEM 7) that it is more likely than not that Nokia’s fee is in the lower end, given that Nokia is MS’s main partner on WP and that Nokia is providig e.g. mapping solutions to the WP ecosystem? or , 8)Nokia has said that there are various monetary transfers in their contract with MS?

      • N00-00 says:

        The news I heard from insiders in Nokia is that Nokia is paying the full licensing fee of $15 to MS. And even during the official announcement it was asked whether Nokia would get WP licenses at a reduced rate. Nokia’s response was a no to that question…

        Also, the range you mentioned was for the entire Windows Mobile collection and not for WP. The licensing fee for WP is understood be at $15 or more (http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/licensing-fee-for-windows-phone-7-should-be-killed).

        Nokia gets paid by MS for Nokia services WP uses like Navteq maps, Nokia’s operator billing services among others.. The problem with them are that Nokia’s services aren’t completely integrated with WP yet and haven’t seen any timelines either.

    • N00-00 says:

      Exactly.

      And according to the deal, Nokia will be paid for the Nokia services used by WP devices (guess non-Nokia). TYhe problem is Nokia’s services are yet to be fully integrated into WP (Nokia maps are only present in the Lumia devices and not on the other WP devices yet) and until they are present in the other WP devices, Nokia isn’t going to get paid by MS.

      So all in all, it looks like the worst possible deal for them with spending for WP promotion and licenses far exceeding the money it spend on redesigning its existing assets..

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