Nokia Q2 2012 Results
At 1pm CET on 19th July 2012, Nokia’s Q2 2012 results were published.
Here’s a link to the PDF interim report with tables:
http://www.results.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2012Q2e.pdf.
Quick overview:
- Total sales (volume): 83.7 Million units
- Smart devices: 10.2 Million
- Mobile Phones: 73.5
- 4 Million Nokia Lumia units
___
Nokia net sales in Q2 2012 were EUR 7.5 billion, up from EUR 7.4 billion in Q1 2012
- - Nokia Devices & Services Q2 net sales decreased 5% quarter-on-quarter.
- - Lumia Q2 volumes increased quarter-on-quarter to 4 million units.
- - Mobile Phones Q2 volumes increased quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year to 73 million units.
Nokia non-IFRS EPS in Q2 2012 of EUR -0.08, level with Q1 2012; reported EPS EUR -0.38
- - Reported EPS adversely affected by non-cash valuation allowances related to deferred tax assets* of EUR 800
- million, inventory-related allowances, and restructuring related charges.
- - Devices & Services Q2 non-IFRS operating margin negative 9.1%, adversely affected by EUR 220 million of
- inventory-related allowances for our Lumia, Symbian and MeeGo devices. Smart Devices Q2 gross margin and
- contribution adversely affected by the inventory-related allowances. Q3 expected to be a challenging quarter in
- Smart Devices due to product transitions.
- - Nokia Siemens Networks returned to non-IFRS operating profitability in Q2; restructuring progressing well and
- company seeing continued progress against new strategy that focuses on key markets and product segments.
Both gross and net cash higher year-on-year
- - Nokia ended Q2 with gross cash of EUR 9.4 billion and net cash of EUR 4.2 billion.
- - Net cash lower quarter-on-quarter, after EUR 742 million annual dividend payment to shareholders.
- - Nokia Q2 net cash from operating activities of positive EUR 102 million, including receipt of EUR 400 million
- pre-payments from existing IPR licenses
Employee count:
The average number of employees during the period from January to June 2012 was 120 309, of which the
average number of employees at Location & Commerce and Nokia Siemens Networks was 6 573 and 67 624
respectively. At June 30, 2012, Nokia employed a total of 113 562 people (138 634 people at June 30, 2011), of
which 6 624 were employed by Location & Commerce (7 292 people at June 30, 2011) and 63 328 were employed
by Nokia Siemens Networks (74 887 people at June 30, 2011
CEO Comments on Q2 2012:
“Nokia is taking action to manage through this transition period. While Q2 was a difficult quarter, Nokia employees are demonstrating their determination to strengthen our competitiveness, improve our operating model and carefully manage our financial resources.
We shipped four million Lumia Smartphones in Q2, and we plan to provide updates to current Lumia products over time, well beyond the launch of Windows Phone 8. We believe the Windows Phone 8 launch will be an important catalyst for Lumia. During the quarter, we demonstrated stability in our feature phone business, and enhanced our competitiveness with the introduction of our first full touch Asha devices. In Location & Commerce, our business with auto-industry customers continued to grow, and we made good progress establishing our location-based platform with businesses like Yahoo!, Flickr, and Bing. We continued to strengthen our patent portfolio and filed more patents in the first half of 2012 than any previous six month period since 2007. And, we are encouraged that Nokia Siemens Networks returned to underlying operating profitability through strong execution of its focused strategy.
We are executing with urgency on our restructuring program. We are disposing of non-core assets like Vertu. We are taking the necessary steps to restructure the operations of the company, which included the announcement of a new program on June 14. Faster than anticipated, we have already negotiated the closure of the Ulm, Germany R&D site, and the negotiations about the planned closure of our factory in Salo, Finland are proceeding in a collaborative spirit.
We held our net cash resources at a steady level after adjusting for the annual dividend payment to our shareholders. While Q3 will remain difficult, it is a critical priority to return our Devices & Services business to positive operating cash flow as quickly as possible.”
Category: Nokia
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4m of 10,2m of smart devices sales are Lumia’s.
The rest – 6,2m Symbian and MeeGo. About 1m 808 PureView?
808 will only be in few thousands (or less) for Q2 2012. Q3 may see the 808 figures rise..
808 just launched in early June, the report was done in end June perhaps? Maybe a few thousand as stock was(and still is) very limited. Expect it to be in Q3 figures
LOL
Keeping wishing.
808 was limited and in short supply worldwide following its release. Demand has still not been fully met in many countries.
100,000 would be a really high optimistic figure.
I wouldn’t keep the 808 in that figure. It should be lot less than that. maybe somewhere between 20-50k
Looking at the figures, Nokia still strong in Asia, Asia Pacific + Greater China that is. Asia Pacific – most likely the low, mid range Nokias, still see a lot of them around. Rather surprised China’s YOY is less by so many percent. It is expected to drop further in Asia by next year, esp the smart phone category
You should check the Asia & African figures for the year 2010 n before (or even the Q1 & Q2 2011).. Nokia’s new strategy has had a big negative impact on these regions (which used to bring in the most profit because most of the goods sold in those countries were made in China & the marketing spend was less). They used to compensate for the high expense EU regions (one of the reasons for huge losses & for Elop deciding to close down centers in Europe).
Ebon, I know, I stay in Asia region. That’s also why I’m interested in Asia Pacific & China figures. The figures will continue to drop. But then Elop & Microsoft is more interested in recapturing the US market
nokia is more focused on china+neighbours when it comes to low cost phones
Oooh, so that’s how nokia is treating the guys who stood with them thru the years.
It’s all about amerika now, eh?
who said that?
how can you not see it,it’s clear as day that Nokia is only mainly focusing on US why do you think elop killed symbian for…..US native OS…..COME ON wake up
Why isn’t the 610 sold in the US then? Come on, it is obvious that Nokia is focusing on several key markets.
Please read full report ! Nokia is in deep shit, and HUGE loss in this Q2 (operating loss of -USD1.01 billion !!). The MS’s gift is gone !
As Jay being selective and only blogging good side, but he did not really give full financial situation of Nokia.
I do not have any problem with WP, but Nokia being terrible in financial now due to poor management and execution. 4M sales of WP is too little, we need at least 15M per Q to maintain like Symbian’s time.
Erm, the link to the full report is there wholely available to you.
I did a very brief summary and shared Nokia’s own tables. Whether they are good or bad is your interpretation.
US sales: 600000 units… where is now the ranking on Amazon?!?
I really wish there would be a truth police!
I am ashamed of the tricks nokia and micro$oft did put in action to get some lumia “momentum”. Microsoft evangelsists… blah
600k for the usa launch is pants. It was the same pr spin as before.
I suspect about 100 to 200k lumina’s will sell in the usa in q3 if that.
Lumia sales in the US (and overall) have increased/remained steady weekly even after the WP8 announcement.
exact Number of lumia phones sold on US is 330000 !!! wonder
Look at this link Nokia confirms !!!
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-confirms-330k-Lumia-sales-in-the-US-vindicates-comScore-and-Nielsen-numbers_id32451
Two things: The Nielsen data used was for entire H1/2012 because it was installed base and Lumia has been on sale since Q1. So, if Nokia shipped 330 000 Lumias in Q2, the installed base in U.S. is higher by the amount of T-Mobile Lumia 710 sold in Q1. So, likely in the 400 000 – 500 000 region. Even Nielsen said that the number seems to low to them.
Second, why can’t anyone seem to find the quote from the actual investor call transcript?
Hrm, Nokia’s stock did climb 17% today, so how it’s bad news. The news where good, Nokia has 4.4 billion euros in bank and it’s money side is secured if this continues.
As Nokia net loss 0.8billion euro this quarter, she needs faster response with better WP8 product to attract more buyer, especially current Symbian User. The 4.4b reserve may only can last for few quarters.
Just check, Nokia stock did climb 8.67%. In my opinion, it is due to market is expecting worst for Nokia, but result is just bad, not worst.
May be Jay is correct too, good or bad is up to you to interpret it.
May be, it is Mixed Result ??
never gonna happen symbian users to WP….nope it’s more like symbian to android or iOS
The upward trend for the stocks is due to the 700M euro dividend payment for the net cash @ Nokia. Wait for few days and see how its goes down again.
what utter nonsense , do u actually believe what u say?
that dividend was paid out in may ’12
what on earth does it have to do with july ’12 !!!!!!!!!!
climb 17% today….. oo well 3,47% ….. guess they read the numbers….
Finnish stock market ended the day at +11.96%.
The numbers were indeed better than expected, but obviously Nokia is far out from the woods yet. The third quarter will be a difficult one as expected.
yeap and it keep’s going down…. “guess they read the numbers”
how’s my very own fanboi today?
feeling sade at nokia’s good results ?
now now, poor baby, don’t cry, just accept, nokia’s here to stay
at this amazing rate of o billion loss per quarter….. I wonder for how long?? 2 more quarters???… Any way Nokia stock is pathetically undervalued, (for now) you could almost technically buy it and pay it with its liquidity…
Stop pulling numbers out of your arse. Nokia increased it cash position with 100 million euros. Two more quarters like this and they will have 200 million more cash in the bank.
@Zipa nice math there, NICE really NICE
I might take numbers out of my “ass” aka Nokia report, but you must be taking them out of (insert random fantasy universe here).
I’m taking it from this report: http://www.results.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2012Q2e.pdf
More specifically, this part:
“Both gross and net cash higher year-on-year
…
Nokia Q2 net cash from operating activities of positive EUR 102 million”
where on earth do you get these facts?
I would like to hear the comments from the doom’s day prophets, about Nokia’s cash flow (which is now positive), and about the net cash that is “only months away from empty”.
The supposedly worst Q in the recent history, and Nokia is able to increase their cash balance? Not bad from a company that is near it’s bankruptcy, huh?
OK, this is not a forum for investment analysis, but still.
Didn’t they fire a bunch a people ?
The extra 400 mio comes from MS, who payed in front (is it a correct way to say it) some IP licenses. They seem not to be the platform payments?
Without that unexpected support from MS, the cash flow would have been negative.
It’s not specifically from MS, it’s general patent royalties. Speculation is that a big chunk of it would be the settlements from Apple over the iPhone patent violations. Not sure if that has any merit, though.
10.2 million smart devices
4 million of which were Lumia
how many were N9?
I doubt many, production/distribution has been constrained, almost since day one.
to those here only to see nokia fail, looks like youll have to wait a little longer
yes indeed, a sad day for the haters
but they are trying to spin this news
not that I’m the greatest hater, but can we have some of that kool aid?… on billion in losses and even less market share. oo yeah the haters are going to have a real hard time
oh poor baby nooki,
did u stub your toe,
does it hurt you,
its ok to cry, go ahead, you’ll feel better
yeah I cant cry more, WP is such a monumental success, money is coming in like never before Nokia just lost 1 BILLION after cutting hugely in joobs, sales are still amazing NOkia lost more market share… and LUMIA managed to sell on average one million phones per terminal world wide, WOW… And the fantastic USA comeback, is were the L900 had so many fantastic reviews on amazon sold how many after that massive campaign???
Nokia did not lose 1 billion, it gained 100 million. The numbers are all there, why don’t you give reading them a try?
Right.. How about you try reading instead.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/19/nokia-2012-q2/
(use that, you can find the info faster)
The numbers aren’t there, Engadget is simply stating next to meaningless IFRS-figures.
Here’s what I wrote earlier, it still applies:
I’m taking it from this report: http://www.results.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2012Q2e.pdf
More specifically, this part:
“Both gross and net cash higher year-on-year
…
Nokia Q2 net cash from operating activities of positive EUR 102 million”
No matter how you twist, turn, bend and shape, the bottom line is that Nokia made 102 MEUR profit during Q2.
Not exactly something to be proud of, & the Lumias aren’t overwhelmingly responsible for it, not even close.
No, the figures certainly aren’t *good*. They are just far better than a lot of the doomsday crowd suggested that they would be.
And they certainly didn’t make 1000 MEUR losses, at least not in the sense that they have 1000 MEUR less cash than they did after Q1. People just don’t seem to realize that IFRS results = monopoly money.
Out of 10 million smartphones, only 4 million are Lumias. 6 million are Symbian and Meego. With 808 being most likely the last symbian, sold in limited stock, no surprises as to tne figures. With N9 no longer produced, ditto.
Figures will continue to drop, esp in Asia, one of Nokia’s strong market for years. If Elop thinks Asians cant afford smartphones, no prob, Asians will buy Android or IOS or BB smartphones.
To Elop(in his many speeches), Asia is China but he has little inkling of customer needs in Asia. And figues in China are dropping fast,faster than expected.
what do we say to the people who want nokia to die?
Not today.
It is known.
gsmarena: ”The bottom line is this – net sales from Devices & Services department of Nokia are down 26% YoY, shipments are down 5% and the operating loss in Q2 was €474 million. The company as a whole posted an operating loss of €826″ a mixed bag result. but i think elop is turning out 2b a genius ceo.. of course minus (a BIG minus) for how d symbian transition was handled and meego disownment in public. somewhat leaving developers in cold air. anyway, imho, its inevitable. d management did these for d new direction to succeed better. i may sound an elopian now, but i think he and d bod have made d best choice and considerations for nokia and its shareholders long term wd the company’s current state. and besides, we solid nokia fans know where, what n why jolla mobile is for. i dunno, but “I GOTTA FEELIN” (woohoo) – its better than plan b wc most of us r asking!
i still want Nokia AIR and meltemi to materialize, notwithstanding!
neither will happen.
N8 sold 4 million even without the Marketing Bonanza. There was no reason to change everything Nokia had for WP. N9 + N950 + 808 and its keyboard model + cheap models would have sold far more than WP if Elop would have done things right, and they would have build software market for Nokia. Instead of marketing them, Elop marketed their death and increased their prices by ensuring that their availability was reduced into small markets.
How many N9s have been sold?!
probably more than LUMIAS in the US
snap 
Definitely more.
In Q2? Not so sure.
yeah duno maybe less
Not in Q2, I meant overall N9 has sold more globally than Lumia has sold in the U.S. As in installed base.
Not that such a comparison has any point to it.
yeah it as just a silly joke. And I’m not sure the N9 sold in any huge numbers any ware… around were I live they are not in any store.
You don’t need to be sure. Just see figures to be sure that with discriminating N9 Nokia has gained nothing. But with promoting N9 could gain global market and relevant incomes. And this is not a joke. Not even a silly one.
This is from Nokia’s conference call regarding Lumia sales in North America (not only U.S.):
Nokia CFO, Timo Ihamuotila, broke down the numbers further during the companies financial conference call.
“Of the 600k handsets sold over the last months, 330,000 were of the Lumia variety. The Lumia 900 and 610′s sales are increasing while the smaller 800 and aging 710′s are decreasing.”
330,000 Lumia’s in North America, is this not even less than Nielsen suggested?
The data retrieved via Nielsen suggested a total of 330 000 for the first HALF (installed base, Lumia been on sale since January), because Nielsen gave a 0.3% marketshare for installed base, which would include all Lumia 710s in the first quarter. I expect the truth to be somewhat higher for Lumia installed base in the U.S.
Having said that, the U.S. numbers clearly are not as high as we here would have hoped. In fact this is a bit surprising, it means Nokia actually achieved most of the encouraging Lumia sales raise in the rest of the world. Surprising indeed, considering how we assumed rest of the world was faring badly with Lumia.
The 0.33 sold Lumia devices were given for Q2 in North America, which includes at least the U.S. and Canada, and maybe Mexico (I always forget where Nokia counts Mexico to).
So given that Nielsen puts 0.33 Mio for total installed base in the USA, both numbers are possibly correct. And not good, I think we can agree on that.
Well, even Nielsen said they don’t believe in that number because it was generated by combining two studies without taking into consideration their margins of error or anything of the sort.
But I do agree the sales of Lumia in the U.S. were smaller than hoped, while sales of Lumia in RoW were stronger than expected. It is a surprise, indeed. I guess we all got a bit to our noses there: Those of us who said a strong U.S. showing was evident and those who said Lumia is failing RoW on the account of U.S. success.
Neither was really true.
Well see how U.S. fares once the already announced Verizon and Sprint Lumia deals go into action. I expect that to be starting with WP8 only, though, so it will take a while.
Is it really a suprise? Arent were writing here mostly due to Nokia’s strong brand? Their presence and sales channels in ROW have been much stronger than in the us. Also installed base is very much higher and it is always easier to keep than to win customers. Not all have bought N97.
As Ive pointed out seversl times, I never understood why they put all that money in yhe market they are weakest. MS should have been the responsible to create demand in us.
Maybe it shouldn’t have been a surprise, but I did expect Nokia do worse in RoW and better in the U.S. Lumia-wise. We had been conditioned to believe Nokia was sacrificing RoW for U.S., it is hard to ignore the flood sometimes.
But then I didn’t quite expect Nokia to reach 4 million Lumias sold either. They did better than expected there, but the mix where they sold it was a bit surprising. If they now can sustain Q3 and make a big break on Q4, things are looking up.
Really? Ihamuotila described the 710 as “aging”???? Hard to believe he would say that but I guess I have to trust your quote.
And funnily enough the word “aging” is not found anywhere in the call transcript, nor much of any of what you quote.. where did you get that quote from?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/732691-nokia-management-discusses-q2-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript
This is what Elop actually said about those numbers:
“Francois Meunier – Morgan Stanley, Research Division
.. My second question is actually about sale in North America where apparently you’ve been selling only 600,000 units. Are they mostly Lumia? And maybe could you explain why this number is not higher given all the marketing spend you’re doing in the U.S.?
Stephen A. Elop
And just on the question of the U.S. numbers, what you really see there is if you think back to launch pattern in Q1, the launch cycle is focused on the 710, a lower-priced device moving through generally at lower prices with T-Mobile U.S. That was one launch pattern subsequently followed by the launch pattern in Q2 of AT&T. So what you saw was essentially a shift in emphasis from the 710, the Lumia 710, in Q1 to the Lumia 900 in Q2. Now moving similar numbers of units in one quarter versus the other quarter is one thing. But actually, what you see in support of this is increased sales, actually, in North America. And that’s the pattern that we’re seeing there.”
awesome news, very good results things considered,
nokia has started to make a profit , this is huge,
maybe now wall street will look at nokia’s future potential,
im always surprised how many on this blog are praying for the death of nokia,
are they really nokia supporters or droid infiltrators
Some are former Nokia Symbian and Nokia MeeGo users, who are probably on their way to Android just about right now, or already there.
i guess it explains the pain they feel,
well maybe one day they will come back to nokia,
When Nokia comes up with their own open source OS and the purge of non Nokia software is 100% and the invaders are 100% successfully ejected. And the traitors are all fined and in jail. Maybe.
Yep, not with WP they would’nt.
Because we are Nokia fans(which majority are Symbian), not WP fans. Nokia faithfuls who will see Symbian & Meego cut off, very soon. A great many have already jump ship to Android, IOS,BB. If you ask why we still come over this blog, for some like me, it’s cos we want to read N9 & 808 updates/news.
Of course, news on Nokia’s financial situation is of interest to all Nokia fans & ex fans
it’s easy to make money when you fire everyone.
The problem is the marketshare, it’s appalling.
are they really nokia supporters or microsoft infiltrators??? see works both ways with the same arguments surprisingly.
hello baby nooki
has ur mamma changed ur diaper today?
i think u make big poop,
thats why baby cranky today
hooooooo poor baby as to resort to infantile argumentation, oooo booo…
this is pretty childish. lol
For those going on and on about Nokia’s cash, they did loose cash quarter-to-quarter, but LESS than the dividend payment they made in Q2. This is explained in the results on page 5. So, in short: If Nokia had not payed dividends, their cash would have increased! (They did increase year-or-year, though, even with dividends paid.)
The IFRS losses Nokia is reporting include various book-keeping related activities that do not reflect actual monetary losses – and does not include certain positive cash-flow events either. This means the net cash is not decreasing at IFRS loss levels. Not now, not last quarter, not usually ever. This is often misread by us laymen. Stop looking at one number and read the whole report to understand it.
So, had Nokia chosen not to pay dividends, they would have actually increased their cash position since last quarter in all absolute terms. Again, compared to Q2/2011, though, Nokia did increase their cash position by three hundred million euros even after the dividend payment.
http://www.results.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2012Q2e.pdf
So, please, stop with the Nokia is loosing a billion dollars a quarter bullshit. It is simply not true.
I don’t know what you are trying to say, but adding up non-IFRS operating profits of all the three units results in quarterly loss of about 300 millions Euro. They are crashing with increasing speed and performance of the devices unit, where Nokia’s core lies, is quite horrendous.
That shareholders extracted dividends is quite alarming, especially when otherwise they don’t seem to be bothered by what is happening with Nokia.
what alternate reality do you live in ?
Yes, the non-IFRS profits from the three units does result in a loss of 300 million and then some. But again, even that is not the same as how much Nokia is actually bleeding cash.
They did bleed 14% cash quarter to quarter, or about 600 some million – during a quarter they paid 700 some million in dividend. In a sense, all of that loss is explained by the dividend!
Had they not paid a dividend, their net cash would have grown by over one hundred million quarter to quarter. Grown! And dividend is not even counted as a loss.
How can Nokia make a 300 million operating loss and still make plus 100 million money? Simple. Some of their income does not count as operating profit according to accounting rules. It is still money coming in, real money, but it is not operating profit.
But it does mean Nokia is not loosing money at the rate of their operating losses, neither IFRS or non-IFRS – especially not IFRS, but not even non-IFRS levels.
To really get a grasp on Nokia’s cash situation, one has to actually read and understand the report. This is also why Nokia is nowhere near going out of business by Q4 in any world, because they are not loosing a billion a quarter or the like.
They may get acquired of course, because the stock is so undervalued.
As for the dividend, Nokia always pays one. It paid a little less this year, but still it pays it. The fact that they had confidence to pay a dividend adds to the idea that they are not in immediate danger of running out of cash.
That not exactly true.
It was eg in Talouselämä, that MS has made an advance payment of 400mio for some ‘IP royalties’. Such a cash injection is not visible on PL since the income is not related to the reporting period in question. I did not find info what sort of royalty payment it is
What is not exactly true? You said nothing that was not in line with my message.
Things like that advance payment you mention and some other income at Nokia are indeed contributing to Nokia’s cashflow, while not showing as operating profit – and that was my point.
One can’t just a look at the losses incurred and conclude Nokia is loosing that much cash. Accounting just doesn’t work that way. A company’s monetary gains or losses are not directly deductible from operating profit numbers.
What you say that some of the money is not operating profit – it is, but not during this reporting period.
Also the source of the cash injection is interesting, but has nothing to do with the financial results themselves.
Thanks for clarifying, of course that is correct and I should have worded better. I meant it was not showing as operating profit in the quarterly report of course. Just trying not to go into unnecessary detail to keep responses shorter.
Also to note, some one-time inputs are not ever operating profit, although of course they can be profit.
My point was that just by looking at quarterly operating profit or loss numbers is not a correct way to deduct actual effect on the company’s cash position. There are many accounting reasons for this.
Patent royalties are not operating profit, since they aren’t profit from operations, i.e. manufacturing and sales of devices and services. They could be likened to e.g. profits from capital market investments, sales of property etc. It’s of course money in the bank, thus profit, but it is reported differently, just like you said.
Thanks for the further clarification.
The dividens are decided well in advance. It would give huge signal to the markets, if one would decrease the levels after the proposal. In current market it would have not made any difference. With the future 75 million symbian handsets to be sold, they can easily afford the dividend payments
Aha, so you are trying to claim Nokia’s position is improving by looking at cash instead of operating profits.
In reality it’s the cash number that’s easily manipulated, all what you need is your assets to appear to be more liquid. It could be done with various methods, starting with legitimately and openly selling your assets (Vertu anyone?) down to some shady arrangements based on bending (or outright breaking) of incomprehensible accounting rules. Or anything in between.
But rest assured there is no longterm positive stream of hidden money.
Cash flow is cash flow, you can’t manipulate that. All the other figures can be tricked around with to some extent however. You have it all ass-backwards.
Also, I don’t think that anyone has made any claims that Nokia’s overall position has improved significantly, but rather that Q2 end results were way better than feared. There are still a lot of hurdles in the way, but at least they managed to buy some more time to overcome them, and have basically ensured that they will be able to see the WP8 transition through without any cash flow problems.
It of course depends on relative to what you measure the results. If you feared Nokia was going to declare bankruptcy on 19 July, then what Elop presented is surely resounding success.
The reality is that the situation is quickly becoming worse, the collapse is speeding up and they can continue like this only for couple of quarters. Nobody seriously questioned that Elop has enough cash and assets to burn till Q4 and then launch WP8 phones. The question is what happens after that if WP8 isn’t miraculous success.
“The reality is that the situation is quickly becoming worse, the collapse is speeding up and they can continue like this only for couple of quarters.”
Actually, the numbers weren’t all that different compared to Q1, except that they actually made profit in Q2. But sure, things need to change, one way or the other.
nn:
No, I’m not trying to claim that. The operating profit numbers exist for a reason: they tell us of the health of the actual business operations. Nobody is disputing that Nokia is going through a tough period with it’s smartphones generating significant losses. Yep, they messed up sustaining the business while transitioning the new strategy. Elop’s bad, indeed.
My point relates to cash only. It has been the argument that Nokia is running out of cash by Q4/2012 or whenever. That is simply not a likely scenario at all, unless some new dramatic turn of events were to occur. Sure, if things continue going bad they would run out of cash eventually, but people are way too pessimistic about the schedule of this. Acquisition is a far likelier risk than bankruptcy.
If you read the report, you will see the reasons why Nokia’s cash actually would have increased without the dividend payment. That was my point. That Nokia is not loosing cash at the quarterly operating loss levels, so one can not say “at this rate of IFRS losses, Nokia is out of cash by Q4 or whenever”. It is more complicated than that.
So, a crisis at Nokia? Yes, definitely. A cash crisis? No, not yet.
Well, I think nobody seriously suggested they will run out of cash in Q4, they still have some assets they can (and will) sell. If there were any dates in discussion, it was either next year or in 2014. So it seems you are fighting straw man.
So you’re saying that the current nokia sucks at selling phones and is good at leaching money from MS donations, royalties, selling off it’s parts and cost cutting by firing employees?
Cost-cutting was, and is, inevitable, as Nokia was, and is, bloated. And yeah, the smartphone business is not looking good atm.
No, all I’m saying is that there is no imminent cash-crisis at Nokia that would kill them within a quarter or two. We get to see their WP8 play (unless they are acquired but an acquisition wouldn’t go through that fast either).
Can you like answer questions directly?
Or are you adopting elopian style of “beating around the bush” without answering the actual question..
I’m not saying that nokia will be out of cash soon.. I was asking about something else..
I don’t see how you can get a more direct answer than “No”?
Q: So you’re saying that…
A: No,…
Lol, ssdh aka nokia-hater gets pwned.
Wrong..
More like MS hater..
“Come now. Lay down on the sofa and tell us.
Why exactly do you feel you hate MS?
You are safe with us, do tell.
Do you think it has something do with your childhood and your relationship to your mother, or father, perhaps? Or your siblings? Did they get a PC and not let you play when you were growing up”
(Symbian, MeeGo and Meltemi)-killer hater.
Practically speaking, we don’t like traitors and people in collusion with the real NOKIA killers.
These traitors and people in collusion has EOL’d the native OS of NOKIA and effectively exiled its user base now and has created a puppet government for Microsoft.
NOKIA is a nation under attack. The civil war has begun.
It’s quite scary when people start to speak about traitors when it comes to corporations and business entities.
Just saying…
Get
a) a life.
b) your head examined.
(or c: more liberal with smilies, irony doesn’t transmit well over TCP/IP…)
Take your pick.
It’s a f*****ing consumer electronics company, for f*****‘s sake.
The first person was Jack Tramiel (R.I.P.) which said “business is a war”. And frankly in terms of “nation under attack” I fill myself to be pushed out to exile by Mr Burning Platform and over puppets governed by 3rd side party. We should not treat this convention literally but those who do not want to be assimilated also exist here and need mobile, right? And some of them, me in this number, do not want to change own preferences. This is free world, we do not have to love monopolists. And we have this right guaranted by low, am I right?
The good:
- Lumia sales doubled Q-on-Q
- Positive net cash flow
- Mobile phones sales increasing
- L&C becoming a proper 1+ billion business with at least decent operating margins and huge opportunities for growth.
The bad:
- Lumia sales figures still quite low despite the ~100% Q-on-Q increase
- Symbian sales still tanking
The ugly:
- Q3 outlook…
Good summary. It was a better-than-expected results and the Lumia trajectory is a reason for cautious optimism.
I would add U.S. Lumia sales to the bad. While I don’t believe in the 330 000 installed base estimate that came from the abuse of Nielsen data, the 600k numbers for Q1 and Q2 in North America are nothing to write home about. Clearly we hoped for more there.
But Sprint and Verizon have been announced to be on board for the next Lumia wave in the U.S., so we shall see how those numbers improve. Nokia has now launched the Lumia brand to U.S. awareness. Let’s see if it pays off.
Not saying that the US sales were terrific in way, but I wouldn’t say that it is a terrible performance for basically one phone on one carrier in one market to account for around 10% of all (Lumia) sales.
f***** you guys since you keep deleting every of my posts
?????
I looked through the spam section and there is no comment there by the name of ‘deep space bar’, nor is it held for moderation. The last comment previous to this from your account is here: http://mynokiablog.com/2012/07/19/nokia-q2-2012-results/comment-page-1/#comment-618726
The only other comments that gets removed are askimet/filtered spam posts. Unless you are using another alias, your comments are not being ‘deleted’.
BTW, please stop swearing.
6 million symbian devices
which devices are we talking about exactly?
nokia 710/700/603
any more that still sell?
You would probably be suprised what Symbian models you could still find in many developing countries, even on sale in stores.
Yes, I’d expect the majority of Symbian sales to come from obscure (to us) low-end models, even older models. The higher end of Symbian has had trouble selling well for a long time.
Nokia 500 seems to sell well in Finland, so I guess that is one other at least. It is the cheapo.
Nokia 700, 701, 603 and older models, esp the keypad type like E series. X7 was also released last year but not popular due to screen problems. The announcement of 808 caused some renewed interest in N8 for budget buyers – when 808 was announced as next king of camera phone, people are reminded of the N8.
Of course the N9 is still selling, till now.
Hi all you guys… Can you stop the flame war over there its just a wasted of time… Its time to accept that under Elop reing the only choice will be Windows Phone (or another MS product)… So lets move on and see what happens, You don’t wanna go Droid (like me) grab some N9′s and N900′s for the foreasable future, until 1-. Nokia gets control over their own software platform. 2-. A new “Nokia” (Jolla will be you there???) appears 3-. Choose iOS (you dont wanna it, go to 1 or 2)… from now using some oldiest from Nokia… See ya, have a nice day
sub.
I doubt nokia has sold this many lumia. I hardly see lumia in the streets in singapore. apple rules the world.
Everyone just lay down your arms, surrender and wait for the enemy to execute your friends, relatives, family, and finally you, yourself. Let Microsoft kill Nokia through Elop. Resistance is futile, so better give up.
Is that what you want to hear from us?
Bow down to the almighty USA, steelicon. The rest are third class humans.
Dunno. entirely up to you.
Im just glad that nokia returned to making phones that can appeal to the masses with most of the key aspects about a user friendly smartphone intact =D
=D <- is that a shovel to dig your own grave?
erm. sure… *shrugs*.
N9
it certainly fits most of the bill (for me), but apps was an issue. its quite possible that before meego was cancelled qt apps might have fit the bill nicely for at least the bare minimum,
but seeing the revelation (to me at least) that qt 5 is only just getting ready or something, and that qt 4.6/4.7 was apparently hard to develop(from a random comment from MNB in a qt topic) , it might just fail miserably to do so as well.
Also, even with wp 100k apps there are plenty of popular apps which ios and android have but wp dont further convinces me that qt might not work.
But hey, im glad to hear that N9 fits the bill for you. Yay for both of us.
It’s not a revelation, it was always on the roadmap, & it’s quite irrelevant that it’s getting ready “only now”.
What was far more important, is that there was concrete plans/actions to push dev on the platform as-a-whole for the past 18mth+.
That has not happened to anywhere near the degree that was originally planned.
Because of the change in strategy which was already turning in that direction before the (in)formal announcement in Feb 2011.
No, how about stopping Elop and saving the world by hanging around Nokia blogs b!tching about it?
galaxy s3 işletim sistemi için mi tercih ediliyor
We see how our beloved Nokia is in agony. This should not be strange that many Nokia enthusiasts express their sorrow. And this is great mistake to treat them as enemies. Just they informs friends, neighbours, internauts why Nokia is worth to buy. Sending them to an exile is like deleting marketing. Subventions, especially alien, will not last for ever. And without exiled fans Nokia will be not even a boat but more like a rescue wheel rather. And this makes me sad, very very very sad.
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