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Stephen Elop interviewed at Wired

| October 4, 2012 | 77 Replies

 

This is another interview with Stephen Elop, this time over at Wired.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/qa-nokia-ceo-stephen-elop/all/

When asked about the HTC signature WP, Elop defends the Nokia Lumia brand. He says they could have called the 920, Windows Phone 920 but Nokia Lumia is much more than that. Nokia has put significant investments into the WP to make WP and Nokia stand out. The Nokia brand stands for something unique and Nokia is proud to have their phones known as Nokia Lumia first. (HTC can go suck it up to MS as much as they like with their Lumia clones. They never were one to do something original).

When asked if Elop/Nokia knew that first gen devices could not get WP8, he pretty much says yes. It was in the best interest of everyone to advance WP (if Nokia did not, WP would be dead. Face it MS. And if Nokia didn’t they would not have a platform to differentiate the way they needed to – not going to discuss it again why they chose this platform over others as we’ve been doing that for 18 months. Congratulations to MS on making their restart of an OS require another restart halfway. It’s like they specifically do things to fail in mobile).

Nokia wanted to make sure the older platform gets support, such as some new features including the WP7.8 homescreen.

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Next up, they discuss why people should switch to Lumia. Now Elop says quite correctly than being cheaper is not a good approach. Being better and being able to differentiate is the way to go. (Nokia Lumia 920 offers so much more compared to the first gen Lumias. They can actually go toe to toe on other smartphones in terms of specs and show off several other features they won’t have).

Some other quick points:

  • Nokia have 5 main businesses in addition to smartphone
  • Asha very profitable
  • As much as some people like to troll this point, the likes of Amazon and Oracle are paying Nokia to use their services and not the other way around.
  • NSN – telecommunication a tough market, problematic over last few years but generated cash over last few quarters  and he says NSN gets better from here on in.
  • IP – Nokia want to monetise and protect their iP (so the likes of grubby HTC don’t go around photocopying things Samsung stylie)

Future of mobile phones? Fraction of the time used as a phone – Nokia sees them as a collection of sensors, that sense what you’re doing and going in the world around you.

that concept of mobility and connecting those worlds together all through great sensor technology is going to be really important. There’s a lot of opportunity there.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/qa-nokia-ceo-stephen-elop/all/

On future devices, tvs, tablets? Nokia will participate into a greater or lesser extent into the seamless experience users are expecting, moving from their phone, tv, tablet, automobile etc.

 

Cheers Viipottaja for the tip!

 

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Category: Lumia, Nokia

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com
  • Ujwal Soni

    What is this? Interview month?

    No harm though..

    • Tom

      All of a sudden, too many interviews. Wondering what’s going on.

      • noki

        bad bad news coming?

        • jiipee

          Ashas might save profit warning.

          I dont think its related to bad news. The new products are being launched and Nokia will start “silent period” related to the Q3 reporting soon.

          • noki

            to Elop that s bad news, he is soo deeply invested to the WP strategy that only WP is of importance so bad sales numbers for Lumia is terrible Bad Bad news for the guy.

            • Viipottaja

              Read the interview (in particular the section on the 4 business areas). its quite clear that his thinking and the strategy is about a lot more than _just_ Lumias/WP.

          • incognito

            The Q3 has passed so there won’t be a profit warning this late and the Asha line probably saved the day. That being said I wouldn’t like to be Elop on the 18th, as I’ve said on multiple occasions – when it comes to the smartphone department (ex converged devices) it will probably be the record loss of a single department in Nokia’s history, and if they are not doing some creative cost splitting easily 1B+ due to heavy investments the latest Lumia line.

            • Bloob

              Well, not like they started investing in the new Lumias just last quarter.

              • incognito

                Of course not, but they’ve sold far less Lumias and Symbians (and N9s, if they even still sell them) this last quarter to offset the costs.

                • jiipee

                  Agree, they probably have excess stocks of devicesand components they need to do write-offs. Alreadydid that last quarter.

      • incognito

        Elop’s swan song?

        Unlikely at this point but one could dream…

  • jiipee

    Pretty good interview. The sensor stuff has been obvious for quite some time.

    I cannot recall, if this was presented here in MNB before. I think it was. Any good ideas Jay? ;)

    http://www.nokiasensingxchallenge.org/media/news-releases/nokia-sensing-x-challenge-searching-world-most-powerful-digital-health-sensors-transform

  • Jill

    I like the way you write Jay.
    Half the way reading .. always I could easily make out it must be by you.

  • Janne

    The haters are out in full force it seems. Everybody knows Q3 will be challenging (just how much or little, remains to be seen) due to upcoming products, yet it will be used as proof that the WP8 strategy can not possibly work. Now that nobody can call Elop a trojan, the rhetoric has moved to Microsoft dumping Nokia. And so the goal posts run.

    And Elop doing plenty of interviews before a major product launch is obviously proof that it is all falling apart. Because come on, there couldn’t possibly be any other reason to do interviews before a major launch… Oh wait. Maybe it is because of a major launch? No, that couldn’t possibly be the explanation. It must be a swan song move.

    Yes, that must be it.

    • Bloob

      Should’ve stayed under that rock, eh? ;)

      • Janne

        Indeed. I’ll get back there right after the next post… “I can stop any time.” ;)

        Having said that, what pulled me back was some of the largest FUD and misunderstandings (e.g. the HQ sale) that were out there. I just couldn’t leave those uncorrected.

        Silly me.

      • Janne

        Like I said in an older thread: This will only get worse as Nokia goes through the challenging Q3 results and the waiting game to see how WP8 Lumia unfolds continues.

        There was a very simple reason for me to step out of the debate until Q4 results – and that is it. Nothing good will come out of the debate in between. Now, I didn’t quite make it that way. :) But I will keep on trying to keep a distance.

        Those who really want to see how it plays out, have patience to get over these bumps. They may lead to better or worse as the “fog clears”, but in any case the bumps before that clear will be there. The FUD will go up as it has the past weeks.

        Reality, of course, may be something completely different in a multitude of directions after this challenging period. We’ll see when the Q4 results roll in January, how the fog is beginning to clear. That will be the truly interesting test.

        This Q3/November wait stuff, before then, is noise. It will be loud, but in reality it will tell us nothing of significance. That won’t stop certain people from trying to make it more significant than it really is, though.

        • jiipee

          Didnt we agree on ‘a gateway’ when the final (un)success will be measured? Mine was Q2013 after true Nokia Microsoft products and yours either Q42012 or Q12013 after the first wave of WP8. Should check ;)

          Your choise of word – haters – is quite strong. I wouldnt categorize myself as one. Im more in the categories “sad” and “realist”. Regarding the “the WP8 strategy can work”. Ofcourse it can, but can it be a success? Did Nokia make major mistakes also after OPK? Was the transition period managed professionally? Could they have mitigated the risks somehow, if thr future after 2 years is still uncertain? If a company of 50 people can have a burning platform ready by the time when Nokia’s primary platform is ready, has Nokia’s mgmt made the right assumptions and decisions?

          • Janne

            If we ever agreed on a final measurement of success, I don’t recall. If you find it, please post to refresh memories.

            I do, however, remember promising to look at Q4 results and determine whether or not a healthy Lumia growth trajectory is there. Or isn’t there.

            I know a lot of people keep saying Q4 is too soon, but I don’t think it is. It will tell us something of value. Q3 results on the other hand, barring a major surprise or disruption, probably won’t.

            “Ofcourse it can, but can it be a success?”

            We’ll know after Q4 results.

            “Did Nokia make major mistakes also after OPK?”

            Of course they did. It is called Feb11. Not necessarily because it hurt Symbian (it did, but it didn’t cause the fundamental collapse), but because of the immense badwill it, together with the handling of N9, caused.

            “Was the transition period managed professionally?”

            No. Or at least clearly an orderly transition away from Symbian professionally failed. Also, the N9 generated a lot of goodwill that then turned into badwill. Handled better Nokia could have made N9 a strength, now they sort of made it a weapon to be used against them.

            “Could they have mitigated the risks somehow, if thr future after 2 years is still uncertain?”

            Yes. They could have started by handling the transition more gracefully. They could have kept MeeGo on the sidelines to generate goodwill amongst a niche and a backup option (clearly, though, they could still return to open Linux just as Jolla can, should they need to so they will never be without that backup option).

            “If a company of 50 people can have a burning platform ready by the time when Nokia’s primary platform is ready, has Nokia’s mgmt made the right assumptions and decisions?”

            Irrelevant. If referring to Jolla, it is such an unproven venture and on a majorly different scale than Nokia, that we can’t really use that at all. At least not yet. Maybe we can, when we know more.

            • Nokia does not have another 1-2 years to switch platfrom. Also recruitment will be a lot difficultnt.

              Disagree 100% on the last one.

              The 1B per annum from MS is peanuts, if Nokia could have maintained Meego development with few hundred guys. Same applies to Meltemi, which was more or less ready ie the most resource demanding part was done. Now they practically threw off piles of money and lessened their bargaining power towards MS.

              • Jiipee

                ups, time to go to bed ;)

              • Janne

                If Lumia turns out to be a mediocre business and the rest of the business remains sound (Asha, NSN, L&C, etc.) then certainly Nokia has plenty of time to make whatever new investments and platforms they might need.

                Obviously if some of those fundamentals wouldn’t be there, Nokia might run out of time, and certainly they couldn’t afford a new dramatic Feb11 now… but it doesn’t mean they are out of options in many middle ground scenarios.

                The reality is, other than acquisition risk, this isn’t really nearly as cut and dry, black and white survival type of situation for Nokia as many Internet commenters make it out to be. Sure, if Lumia doesn’t work well Elop will be out, but that doesn’t mean Nokia is over.

                There are many middle ground scenarios, including one that could see Nokia restart some Linux projects in the future. I’m not saying that will happen, just saying that it wouldn’t be impossible for Nokia to do, should they so choose.

                • Maybe

                  “they should have replaced Symbian 1:1 or even close to that. The level of initial S^3 sales – 5 million first quarter (maybe even only 2-3 mil – since they only shipped Lumia for half of Q4 2011) and growing fast from there – would have sufficed. It is about momentum out of the gate.
                  I think there was a lot of that “flip a switch ship millions” mentality Lee Williams talked about in Crave/C-Net interview. When those millions didn’t happen the whole thing came off the rails.
                  Targets were missed by a lot, IMO. Hence the Q1 profit warning, then Q2 warning/restructuring, firing of head of sales. Such things don’t happen two quarters in a row if you miss targets a little.
                  Part of that, of course, was much faster then expected Symbian decline. But a big part must have been Lumia underperformance.

                  And there are lots of signs that Nokia/MSFT relations are cooling. MSFT allowing Samsung to announce WP phone before Nokia. HTC “signature” WP devices. Ballmer getting on stage at HTC launch – making that event in effect almost equal to Sept. 5th, Microsoft’s own smartphone (if true). And in response – Elop’s reitaration that Nokia cand fragment WP if they choose so, or his quip that Nokia may rights to hinder features of Microsoft’s smartphone. All these are a very strong indications that tensions are rising fast in MSFT/Nokia partnership”

                  http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/10/03/why-microsoft-is-right-to-be-pissed-at-nokia-over-the-burning-platforms-windows-phone-deal/

                  • Janne

                    Two things:

                    I agree WP7 Lumia missed targets on both Nokia’s sales expectations levels and from community perspective, that expected more products, wider and faster from Nokia than surfaced. Who knew Q3/2012 would be the first full quarter of near-global Lumia availability. I expected it to be Q1/2012 originally. First Lumia range did some things right and set some momentum, but clearly it underperformed on the market.

                    As for tensions in the Nokia – Microsoft deal. Certainly possible. Nokia made a deal for Nokia, Microsoft made a deal for Microsoft. After we put all the silly Trojan talk aside, we can see two corporations doing right by themselves first. Nokia is not playing WP up, they are playing Lumia up. Their own brand. Because it makes sense to Nokia.

                    • Maybe

                      WP7 was a total failure in the first place even before Nokia got on board…
                      With WP 7 made Nokia flop very well…
                      WP 7 got boosted just because of Nokia… What do Nokia get? losing in smartphone arena from millions of sales in few hundred thousands of sales? Even money from Microsoft can’t treat the wound from the feb 11 deal…
                      After extraordinary marketing of WP by Nokia, now WP8 have the stage and MS back stabbed Nokia with HTC and soon with surface phones…
                      Congrats on the path Elop chose
                      The should phase out symbian/MeeGo like how they’re doing with S40…

            • tom

              “No. Or at least clearly an orderly transition away from Symbian professionally failed. Also, the N9 generated a lot of goodwill that then turned into badwill. Handled better Nokia could have made N9 a strength, now they sort of made it a weapon to be used against them.”

              That’s what Elop does not understand. Apple would be dead without that in 90s. The fanboys kept apple alive when they had uncompetitive products. Now pretty much all Linux supporters are against Nokia.

              • noki

                Plus the symbiam supporters, MNB is a perfect example of that.

        • Tom

          What’s the date EFlop must deliver or he has no credibility? I guess 2 year is not good enough for all EFlop aplogists. Hold on, they don’t want to commit to a date.

          • Janne

            My personal estimation is, Nokia needs to show clear fiscal improvement and WP8 strategy success in early 2013 – or Elop will be out.

            Personally, I’m looking at Q4/2012 results (which will come in January 2013) to make a personal judgement call on the viability of the Lumia strategy.

            And no, two years is not enough when we are just on the verge of seeing the first full-fledged fruits of the new strategy. Stupidest thing would be firing him now.

            The new strategy will succeed or fail within months, and Elop with it. We shall see which way it goes.

            • Jiipee

              Elop will be out in Q1 anyway. He’s been hired to manage transition. After that they need new face.

              • Janne

                That is certainly possible.

                I’d like Siilasmaa at the main helm, like I said after the AGM in the spring.

            • dss

              i don’t see the 920/820 as “full-fledged fruits” since there is a lot of functionality missing when compared to their Symbian portfolio.. they are compromised products, just like the 800/900 were, to a lesser extend, but still, not “full-fledged fruits”

              • Janne

                Clarification:

                By full-fledged I meant products that had full Nokia development cycle behind them. First Lumia generation was rushed in less than half the normal time, using reference designs bought from a partner. Lumia 820/920 on the other hand had the benefit of full 18 month development cycle at Nokia, so they are proper products in that sense.

                Less room for excuses, in other words.

                Anyway, we’ll see come Q4 results. :) Now, where is my rock to crawl under until then…

                • noki

                  Janne I asked this on another thread but I will repeat it here, no malice question… How many Lumias do you expect Nokia to sale in Q4..

                  The previous expectation was 10 M but i guess you can cut that 1/3 sit still very much in time for the holiday season dough…

                  And how many would you call a disaster?

                  • Janne

                    Fair question. I missed it the first time around, too many messages flying back and forth (and I’m peeking at them under my very exposed rock after all, not reading most of the threads here).

                    10M was not an expectation in the sense that it would be a prediction. Let’s make that clear: it is NOT my prediction, nor was it ever. It was a ball-park, as in the kind of number that I think Nokia should reach to show the world that Lumia indeed is on a healthy growth trajectory. It was part of this trajectory I said would look healthy growth to me (as in, not good enough sales yet because it didn’t sustain Nokia’s old levels, but at least good enough direction for the future):

                    Q4/2011: 1M
                    Q1: 2M
                    Q2: 3-4M (turned out to be 4M)
                    Q3: 4-6M (but noted Q3 can be much lower)
                    Q4: 10M

                    That Q4 number assumed an early October launch (or preferably even very late September launch), now we are probably looking at a launch closer to mid-November so I some adjustment is needed. If you just take one third out of it and round it up, the number would be 7M. I know the holiday math doesn’t work quite that way, so I’m not saying 7M is as good as 10M level, but it is a number at least.

                    Frankly, I have no clue how many WP8 Lumias Nokia will sell in Q4, because we still don’t know what markets might get it only in Q1. I also have no idea how many Lumias they did in Q3, although I doubt it is quite as bad as we feared – Lumia 610 has probably held its ground fairly well, and Q3 is its first full wide availability quarter, although the high-end has obviously plummeted.

                    Now, if Q3 sold 4-6M Lumias, I think that buys Nokia a little time because it will not be seen as the disaster people are expecting. That means a 7M number in Q4 probably would be seen as sufficient. Not good, but probably not a disaster either. If Q3 dropped significantly from Q2 levels (say, to 1-3M range), which it clearly might do due to the WP78 wait, that puts immense pressure on Q4 numbers. The Lumia shipments number is the proxy by which the success of the new strategy is measured.

                    If Q3 is a washout, Q4 must do well – like I said when I first laid out the above steps in late spring. If Q3 is better, Q4 doesn’t have to be quite as spectacular. So, yes, in that sense the Q3 numbers matter because they add to the general tone and the overall Lumia trend, but on the other hand in isolation they don’t tell much because a failed Q3 doesn’t yet mean a failed Q4. We’ll see. We need to see healthy growth trajectory for Lumia continue.

                    What would I call a disaster? Like I’ve said, a flat-lining (or, obviously, a downward trend in Q4). That would be absolutely destructive to the image of the Lumia strategy. If Q3 sells less or at Q2 levels (which it might, because of the WP7 situation) – and Q4 doesn’t get any better than that (it must get way better than that), that would be a disaster. There HAS to be significant growth in the second half of 2012, compared to the first half, for Lumia sales. Q3 is an exception, but Q4 must do well.

                    I guess about the only thing that could offset this kind of disaster a little if Nokia miraculously were to return to profit by the success of savings and other parts of their business, but considering how important the higher-end smartphones are seen on the market, I doubt even that would prevent the proverbial flogging that would follow. And it would definitely cast a shadow on the Lumia strategy that would likely see an ouster of Elop and perhaps some (not-so-dramatic) strategy changes to adapt.

                    • nn

                      Your calculation doesn’t work even assuming one month = third of sales, because you have also WP7 Lumias, and they are on sale for full quarter (unless you want to claim these 10M were just for the new WP8 phones).

                      But funny to see that you are able to merrily cut your target by third in one swoop, call it adjustment, and proceed along the way as if nothing happened. That’s some finest goalposts moving…

                    • Janne

                      nn: You are right that WP7 sales should count into the 7M number. That is a perfectly fair point to make and acknowledged. It didn’t cross my mind when I posted upwards.

                      However, my intent was not to present a 7M number as my “expectation” at all. It was just some number I threw in the discussion. I even acknowledged the fallibility of that number. Again, you read me like the Devil reads the bible. You want to see me as somehow “evil apologist”, when I’m merely human.

                      My expectation of a good solid trajectory is still the same 10M ball-park. I am not presenting any other numbers. How we interpret whatever comes out will obviously depend on the facts at hand, such as how was Q3, how widely (or not) WP8 Lumias came out to markets, were there major limitations of countries or stock…

                      I *always* said any lateness of WP8 will be deducted from the equation. As would a limited launch, obviously. Remember, I threw the 10M number out there in, what, June. We had no solid idea then what the WP8 schedule would be or how widely WP8 Lumias would come. We need to see wide-enough showing from Lumias, so we can deduct something reliable (success-wise) from that. I’m sure we will, though.

                      So obviously over one month removed from a three-month quarter will have some significance in the sales, both lessening WP7 sales due to wait and affecting potential WP8 sales. But no, 7M is not any kind of number to stick to or to look at. I was merely discussing different aspects of my expectations. I was asked to, you know. I gave the best answer I could.

                      I have been consistent with looking at Q4 results – in totality, not blindly any detail of them – and coming up with my verdict of the healthiness and viability of the Lumia trajectory. 4-6M in Q3, 10M Q4 would certainly look healthy. But when it will be something different, and now it looks like it will be because WP8 isn’t out for full or near-full Q4, I will give my verdict after Q4 results whether or not it still looks healthy enough.

                      I doubt it will be a hard call. In January we should have full five quarters of Lumia device sales (and competing WP sales, as well as market growth etc.) data to “plot to a graph” (figure of speech) and see whether or not it looks healthy or not. The reason I refuse to do that now, today, is that WP8 will potentially be a major change agent to both Q3 (negative) and Q4 (positive). We need that data to determine the true health of the Lumia trajectory. Just going by Q4/2011, Q1, Q2 is not enough in my opinion to make a call.

            • tom

              I think Q4 2012 is fair. Lets wait for the results.

    • Svedu

      I am not calling a Trojan nor do I think that Microsoft is dumping Nokia. I actually think that WP and Nokia will have a chance, but I dont think Elop is the right person to be in charge. Fact is that he was saying many of these things a year ago also. “Have to make sure that products are well visible in stores and train the staff”.

      or “plan B is to make plan A succesful”. Well, I dont think he is doing his best in the plan B right now when plan A obviously failed. But one thing has changed from interviews a year ago. By that time his focus was only on WP and smartphone strategy. On interviews nowadays however he seems to actively remove the focus from that, and instead bring up Asha, Navteq, NSN and patents. Because all of these are profitable, WP isnt. I hope that Nokia continues on the decided smartphone strategy, but with a new CEO and also a new person in charge for the smartphones. Jo Harlow is not the person I want to see revealing next phones.

      • Janne

        I don’t think plan A has failed. It it too soon to call. It hasn’t caught on as fast as everyone would have wished, and moving orderly away from Symbian failed as I said right after Q1 results (and as I feared right here on MNB after Feb11), but still the Lumia growth has been there, doubling every quarter. If it continues on a healthy trajectory come Q4 (we’ll excuse Q3 for obvious reasons, it will be bad, badder or baddest depending on how much 610 saved the day), it may well succeed – even if slower than everyone would have wanted.

        This is why I’m looking at the Q4 numbers. Q3 might tell us something about low-end Lumia sales, but other than that it will be pretty much a useless data point (unless there is some major surprise to some direction). Q4 will reveal much more about where Lumia is heading in terms of healthy trajectory.

        As for those other aspects, it is not a small feat that NSN has returned to profitability. That is major accomplishment from the Elop era. Location is central to their story starting from WP8, it is clear why it is being brought up more and more. I kept telling you guys it would be brought to the center. And it did. Asha’s are still giving cheap Android a good run for their money after the new Asha touch… and Asha was already VERY prominent at the Lumia launch last year in London, so it is not like Asha is suddenly being brought up. Elop himself brought it up at Nokia World 2011. Elop era gave Asha its name, not OPK.

        All these things deserve to be mentioned – and they also remind us to look beyond the smartphones when making silly statements about imminent bankrupcy or selling the HQ to pay the rent or whatever stupid FUD ignorant, know-nothing-at-alls come up with about Nokia.

        It will be a bumpy month or three. At Q4 results we have not only seen how Q4 has unfolded, we have a full year of Lumia sales and the first WP8 quarter (partial) to look at. We’ll see a trajectory there. Good or bad, it will be there for us to see and call.

        • Tom

          Meego wasn’t delivered on time, so EFlop must switch to WP. How on time WP has been? Commit to a date when you say it’s successful or not and don’t move goal post. Now credit suisse predicting that Nokia will be broken up in 2014 and sold in pieces. I am sure apologists will claim that’s not due to EFlops.

          • Janne

            I don’t owe you anything, least of all commitments. And Credit Suisse is full of hot air, as usual for shorting analysts. (Not that a hostile acquisition isn’t a risk for Nokia, it has been a risk for months as I have continuously stated.)

            But I have made the personal commitment to look at the Q4/2012 results in January 2013 and make a judgement call on the viability of the Lumia strategy then. We’ll see how it plays out soon enough.

            If you want something to read and weep in the meanwhile, try this:

            http://dominiescommunicate.wordpress.com/2012/10/03/paging-stats-police-no-tomi-ahonen-not-even-close-no-tizen-will-not-pass-iphone-by-2015/

            • Tom

              Exnokian, someone who does not have the guts to tell who he is, rather anonymous. I don’t believe in credit suisse or Tomi either fully. At the least they have the guts to tell who they are. If their predictions are wrong, Credit suisse’ will be questioned by their client and Tomi will lose credibility as a consultant, he will lose business. This guy, exnokian(dominiescommunicate) has nothing to lose. The site will simply disappear.

              I think the best way to judge credibility is follow the money. See who is directly or indirectly paid by M$ and Nokia.

              • arts

                pfffff. exactly, you judge exnokian by the facts he presents and the facts alone.

                Too bad eh, usually you get to attack somebodies character so that you dont have to deal with his facts.

                No easy way out this time.

        • Svedu

          Well, in my opinion you shouldnt stare yourself blind on Q4 numbers either. New Lumias are available ~ after half of the quarter has passed already. And only in limited markets. I would say that Q1-Q2 is a lot more interesting. By that time new Lumias should be out almost everywhere, one can hope.

          • Janne

            Trust me, whatever I do with the Q4 results, I will not do it blindly.

            • tom

              At least you are willing to commit a date for WP strategy to show results. I really appreciate that. I haven’t see any other WP strategy supporters commit to a date.

              • noki

                Tom, Janne is a good guy reasonable and willing to have meaningful fact driven discussions, we don’t agree on many accounts but its fun to discuss stuff with him, like for example Jesse big WP fan but also very honest on his conclusions…

                • Janne

                  Thanks. I appreciate the comment.

                • Tom

                  I agree fully. She is the most reasonable among WP strategy supporters. She is the only one I have seen commit a date and Lumia sales number to measure success/failure.

                  When Nokia went WP only, they knew fully well what M$ is doing and when they will ship WP 7.5 and WP 8. You can’t postpone goal post now cause M$ didn’t ship WP8 on time. That was a known quantity for Nokia from day 1 and they went WP only knowing fully well the risk. Nokia can’t claim M$ didn’t ship WP 8 on time. They are accountable for that to their shareholders.

                  I am honest about what I am. I really like Nokia, I dislike M$ more and I love opensource/Linux. I had Nokia stock and I got out at about $10.40. Here is my analysis in general of chances of success for WP strategy.

                  Apple fans will never buy M$ OS. Anyone who has plenty of money will go iPhone way. Anyone who does not know much about smart phones will go iPhone, cause that’s what he/she knows. techies generally will go for Android. Anyone who wants to mod their phone(cynogenmod) or likes to sideload app will go Android. Anyone who wants a cheap smart phone will go Android. Opensource/Linux supporters will go Android.

                  What that leaves out for M$? A very small pie, unless they do something revolutionary, something like Kinect on XBox, which others can’t match. In all, shiny colors or matching capability with existing platforms will not do much.

                  • Dave

                    Tom we’ve pointed out several times it’s “he”, in fact the post you are responding to specifically says “nice guy”.

                    Or is where I ask you how your boyfriend is doing, and to say hi to your mum, I had fun last night.

              • Dave

                I have trouble imagining a grown man with a real job calling Elop “EFlop” in all of his arguments, yet expects to be taken seriously.

                I also can’t fathom why you feel people owe you anything, but whatever.

                • noki

                  I have trouble imagining a grown man with a real job saying “but whatever” “like, hee, you know its sooo…”

                  Can you stick with the argumentation and keep the personal insults out of here? Unless you are Elop. Are you?

                  • Dave

                    Oh suddenly mister high-ground. Jay calls you out for being an annoying shit and now for the next 10 messages suddenly you pretend to be all serious and polite?

                    Saying “EFlop” and “Micro$oft” make you look like a flying retard to the rest of the world.

                    To me, you both look like one already, but I’m sure you care about that as much as I care about you. So whatever.

                    • noki

                      You are new around here are you not??? I hallways take the cheep shots at WP because its fun, never ever I resorted to any sort of personal insult to any one, even Elop.

                      I have strong opinions on what is going on and was very committed to Nokia.

                      Also its fun to debate this specially with some people, I had many good arguments with WP apologist here that were fun and guess what on one or 2 occasions have proven me wrong.
                      And finally me like many other take special pride in saying “we told you so”, you know how come, because some people had to resort methodically to personal insults.

                    • Troll

                      Dave, just in case you dont know, this thing here have repeatedly stated he wants to be here to see nokia get bankrupt. There is no point in engaging in conversation with this thing.

    • Tom

      So Nokia jumped from a burning platform to a burned platform. For all apologists, it’s always a moving target. They will never commit to any date. First it was WP phone, then Lumia 900, 920. We’ll see when the target stops moving.

      • tired

        True. How some people over look past lack lustre performance of wp crap and keep saying it’ll get better in the future. Why not wait till Q1 2016 to see if wp strategy works?
        Wp sucks because it does. Lumia line will fail because it is a msft product. Some modest success in US. That’s the best.
        In the mean time, Nokia becomes a bit player in smartphones. The Android monster keeps ploughing away more marketshare, upstart jolla has a very good chance of taking all the glory of a Linux OS from Nokia. Provided of course jolla comes out with a kickass phone.
        End of the day, Nokia has no way out, just like the Kin range of phones, Lumia is going the way of the dodo.

        • noki

          NO jolla does not need a kickass phone, they entered a deal that was for Nokia with china mobile, they are gona be huge in china. China mobile as a market share of 70% on the worlds biggest smart phone market.

          • Dave

            Lucky the biggest carrier in China is going to carry the L920 then.

            • noki

              sure and it will sale even better than the L800 that was outselling the iPhone right?

              • Dave

                No, but a completely unknown OS on complete unknown hardware with a completely unknown consumer response, now THAT’s worth betting on!

                • noki

                  China mobile apparently bet 200 Million. Hey it makes perfect sense China wants to protect all services inside the great firewall, they have a big grudge on Google, plus most American controlled infrastructure, so something like this makes perfect sense,

                  Ask me if I like it?
                  No, not really

                  Ask me if I think it will work?
                  think it will..

                  • Doffen

                    I like it and I hope it will work. The world needs real alternatives to the US OS dominance.

                • tired

                  Sort of like Nokia going wp?

                • GordonH

                  “No, but a completely unknown OS on complete unknown hardware with a completely unknown consumer response, now THAT’s worth betting on!”
                  See, now we both agree about WP7.

  • Muerte

    They should have asked that why in the hell are you going exclusive on AT&T? The stupidest move after previous stupid moves by Nokia. I’m angry because of that. Doesn’t Nokia have the balls to sell Lumia 920 to everyone in USA? What are they waiting for?

    • Janne

      Like I said in the other thread, I don’t like carrier exclusives either. Nokia has explained their reasons many times for that, but it doesn’t mean I like it.

      • jiipee

        Agree. If one reads comments from the Verge and Engadget, there are a lot of disappointed commenters,, who are not ready to switch to ATT. Interesting to see how the rest of the world goes. According to my understanging the carrier ‘owned’ markets are still a minority and Nokia has been forced to lay off people not on the chosen markets.

        • Janne

          As a side-note, I think it is still possible Verizon has something 920-like up their sleeve (some variant) – that might appease some American masses.

          However, it is possible it won’t be until after the holidays, which would be – as we agree – very unfortunate.

        • dss

          ATT sold around 600,000 900s, with a pretty heavy marketing behind it, up until now.. I would be surprised if they actually sell more 920s in the same period of time. Not with the iPhone 5 sitting right there @ the same price. The 920 needs to be either “free” or $50 at the most, for people to even consider it instead of the iPhone 5.

          If they go head to head with the iPhone on ATT at the same price point, that is as silly, as going against the Asian cartel on pure hardware, and using an identical platform, in this WP8.

          Good luck.

          • noki

            Yeah complete waste of time, som much marketing efort in the US and if they sell more than 0,6 M L920 there it will be lucky…
            what is the point?

            • tired

              Advertising money that would have been better spent on Meego, Asha and Symbian.
              If only.
              There was no way Nokia would be so low down the totem pole if Nokia had stuck to it’s guns and kept the old strategy but used elop to push out OS innovations (ie. Belle, FP1 Fp2) like he has done instead of going wp.

      • nn

        Isn’t it interesting that suddenly, after switching to WP, Nokia is forced to do exclusive deals in more and more countries? Hell, even HTC with their new WP line doesn’t do this exclusivity nonsense.

        It almost looks like – heaven forbid me for saying that – the relations with carriers are severely damaged and Nokia needs to make huge concessions, concession that are undercutting their already untenable position, just to be able to show on the carrier shelves?

  • smadpr

    In a recent interview, Elop says that he company would focus on more budget friendly phones. In this one though, he seem to have realized the actual need of having a super phone and clearly mentions that US market not only generates cash but also can set a strong signal to the rest of the world. Elop is a slow learner or what!

    Two years into the job and still cannot generate enough cash to break from carrier dependency for marketing phones. And here is probably the 2nd most innovative company (in terms of number of patents)

    920 looks great on the paper and videos but, Microsoft can sweep away all the momentum if they announce surface phone before June 2012.

    At least, about tablets they should only look for the 8″ form factor and price them around 200-300. Don’t waste time and money on 10″ ones!

    RANT!!

  • hosny santos

    janne voltou e como defende Elop,

  • hosny santos

    well ,Janne is the same,(Elop?), but in the real world is fail feb 2011, have broke his own portfolio, Nokia needs 2 OS like meego harmattan and WP but now if MS, goes in his interest and launch his devices Nokia dies for it stupid CEO ,and great hardware doesent save Nokia ,his Midia is bad and the people thing Nokia is old,dont sale 2011, 2012 , oh mabe in 2013, the value is going down, billions are lost ,but Elop is good, employes is on the streets for Nothing, the miracle dont came ,Nokia is in risk

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