WP8 Drag & Drop File Storage Detailed
Chinese Site Winp.cn have gotten their hands on a Lumia 820, and while digging through it decided to kindly walk us through the “Drag and Drop” file storage feature in WP8. Once the phone is connected to your PC you can access both the SD card and the internal memory (just like the older Symbian phones); fro their you can access multiple files and folders inside the phone and drag and drop folders from your PC to phone & Vice Versa.
*note the “Ringtones folder” which means we’ll most probably be able to use custom ringtones in WP8 without the need for 3rd party apps… yay.
Thanks to @arungprasad for the tip
Category: Lumia, Nokia, Windows Phone
About the Author (Author Profile)
Heyyo, names Ali- Currently a fourth year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! (Have: Green Nokia N8, Cyan Lumia 800, Black N9, Stormtrooper White Lumia 900, Black 808 PureView, Red Lumia 920). Follow my twitter handle '@AliQudsi' - no pressure. Thanks.Subscribe
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Sites That Link to this Post
- WP8: Live Wallpaper, Bluetooth sending and NFC tap to share : My Nokia Blog | October 26, 2012
- Windows Phone 8 ha il drag-and-drop! - Tutto Windows Phone | November 29, 2012
As smooth as iOS, but with added functionality of android!
happy days!
Good, another “gap” (never bothered me personally) filled!
I thought though someone who KNOWS told us this would NEVER happen?
I never missed it either, funnily enough I missed BT transfer more than this. Probably because Zune works better than Nokia Suite ever did, syncing with Zune is just hassle free, apart from the cable, but then again one can also sync wirelessly over their WiFi network.
That’s cool if true. Now if they only allowed you to backup your downloaded and installed apps from the store… if they decide to take down some app, even the one you paid for, you won’t be able to re-download it again.
That’s what bugs me most with all the halfthought store architectures. They are actually built so you’re not able to! Even though you’re entitled to your personal backup copy in certain countries for every software license you buy.
Whatever…
Not sure about this, but isn’t there a backup option in WP8? Not clear if that also does apps though, as it seems to only do messages etc. judging from the info available.
I may well also be wrong, but IIRC I read some rumor about it backing up the applist so that it can then re-install them in a centralized manner… rather than actually backing up the whole app file to say Skydrive. Hmm. Not sure if that makes any sense.
WP, as many others – and yes, that even includes Maemo – uses linked (shallow) backup strategy for backing up. This means that it only stores your personal data (data created by you, be it content or application customization/configuration) in the backup, while the rest consists just of links and instructions on how to rebuild the system.
In one hand it makes sense – why would you waste a ton of space for each person to store the same files individually (and at least 95% of each app is the same for every user) when you can have a central location for those files (of course, in cloud systems that’s done even if you ‘store’ files individually by checking their hashes and then just storing a reference to the file instead of the same set of bytes to be copied over and over again). On the other hand it nullifies redundancy and if that central location/repository breaks the file(s) is lost for everybody in the chain.
And then there is the issue of who actually owns files. If you buy an app, do you own that app’s files, or are you just leasing the permission to use it, which can be revoked at any point in time? This issue is much older than smartphones and sensible backup strategies – that’s why you agree to a license when using a software, you don’t get owner certificate with it (which is the reason why you can’t resell it). Ergo, the software producer gave you a license to use that software, and they can revoke that license. Much like Pizza Hut gives licenses for using their brand, but whoever gets their license doesn’t get any ownership of the brand.
Personally, when it comes to online backups, I’m all for referenced backup as it saves serious amount of storage space – but that reference should not be in control of any given software company that might have a conflict of interest. Sadly, that’s not the case neither with Microsoft, nor with Apple, nor with Google… Which is why one should never accept their terms and should settle for no less than enabled local backup independent from their cloud. If only people were not such sheeple…
I’ve missed reading your well-written comments incognito!
Excellent comment
It all comes down to data ownership. Unfortunately most software licensing agreements give you the permission to use the software while ownership is retained by the manufacturer, who can revoke your usage or change the terms as they see fit. It’s the same with buying PC software on physical media or buying a smartphone app from an online store.
The way out of this madness would be free software, free as in libre, so you could use it for whatever purpose on whatever hardware. You could then choose where you want to put your data backups and not be tied down to MS, Google, Apple or even Nokia. Imagine using an open source, free software cloud service like Owncloud to keep your contacts, multimedia and documents…
We’re a long ways away from unlocked smartphones (they’re pocket computers after all) that will behave like a traditional PC that gives you full control over the hardware. I’m waiting for Meego/Mer, Ubuntu and FirefoxOS to make it on mobile so we can say goodbye to walled gardens and onerous software licensing terms.
That’s why I have my ‘local’ cloud where I store everything (I’ve mentioned it before like here), and I try to be as little dependent as possible on 3rd party services which I have no control of – and if for practical reasons I have to, I usually keep everything encrypted with my own keys there. It’s not paranoia or anything of the sort – I don’t really think somebody is all that interested in my phone book or that message I’ve sent to my friend while waiting in line, or in my app list and how I use them, or that there is somebody out there to get me – it’s just the principle of ownership and the further implications it might have if we give it up so easily.
I don’t want anyone else to own something I created or bought without my explicit permission, period. I don’t want the car manufacturer/seller to own the car I’ve purchased for my hard-earned cash. I don’t want the building company to own my apartment. Heck, I don’t want the local corner shop to own the pastry I just bought from them. And I don’t want the paper company to own, or even see the post-it notes I wrote on their post-it paper which I purchased with my money. So – why would I be OK with all that in the digital world?
How can anybody expect me to give them money for their product, and then they revoke the product and take it away from me, along with anything completely my own I created using their product, without compensation and me agreeing to it? Would you agree on such a deal if you were not already suckered into it?
And that problem is just beginning to show its face as we move to more digital world each day. Your car, your home, heck – even your vacuum cleaner are getting increasingly digital and software makes a large portion of those. Do you want to live in the world where your car loses half of its advertised horsepower because the manufacturer decided to revoke the software controlling the engine? Or where you have to again open your doors manually on an apartment that was advertised as ‘smart home’ and you purchased it because of the convenience if provides you? Or even evicted from it because you didn’t use it in compliance with the EULA? Or… I mean, yes, those are extreme examples, but all that could happen when you agree NOT to be in control and full ownership of something you’ve purchased. Today we have problem with smartphones as they’ve turned completely digital and software-driven first, tomorrow it may be your car, and in a short while your whole identity.
And I experienced the glimpses of that brave new future first hand by none other than Nokia themselves. I’ve purchased the N95 (which was, ironically, advertised with `what computers have become`) which boldly stated that it comes with lifetime free maps and navigation, my country (Serbia) included, which was at the time quite a selling point as standalone GPS devices used to cost almost as much. And it worked as it should for less than two years – in the meantime they’ve purchased Navteq and forced down an update to their maps (and you couldn’t roll back the update as it was updating the SIM/GSM firmware as well) and all of the sudden I lost the advertised functionality as Navteq didn’t (and to this day they don’t, at least not Nokianized) have maps for Serbia. So there I am, left stranded and without a feature I paid good money for (I even purchased voice guidance which was a pay-feature back then) just because Nokia decided to use different maps. Such things happen to people every day and I don’t know how long are we going to put up with it.
–
tl;dr – He who would sacrifice freedom (of ownership) for some little temporary security (and convenience) deserves neither of them; and will lose both eventually.
And one more thing – while I can accept that some people just don’t care about these issues (I don’t care all that much about deer hunting either), or the mobile/digital world of the future in general, what leaves me completely puzzled is why there is quite a large and loud group of people actively advocating against it. Sure, I can understand what Microsoft, Apple, Google or whoever stand to benefit from such tight control over their users, but what is in it for the people who bought into the lock-in idea and are now actively advertising for it. That’s like me actively advocating for deer hunting just because I have no troubles with eating ‘wild meat’. What would I stand to gain from that ordeal? To me that behavior looks like a weird perversion of the Stockholm syndrome combined with the boiled frog condition.
My friend, now you know why Apple managed to sell so many iPhones and iPads
People want convenience. With Apple, they get to seamlessly share all their media from their home Macs to their iPhones, iPads, iPods, all using one common account. That must be a good thing, right?
Most people don’t see the looming issues of vendor lock-in and planned obsolescence until it’s too late. An Apple devotee will find it almost impossible to move their apps and data to a competing platform so they’ll keep buying whatever shiny toys are introduced as an “upgrade”.
Maybe I’m crazy but I keep a healthy mix of operating systems and hardware in my house and at work. Linux, Windows, OS X, Android and Symbian all work together on my devices… I choose them because I can share data between them. I don’t use locked-in nonsense like iPads or WP7 devices because those exist solely to control the user’s freedom of handling his own information. Freedom is so easily given away, whittled off in bits and pieces, and you only realize it when you have nothing left.
I agree with you, but the fact is most people just don’t care enough to consider such matters when they make their purchasing decisions. Even if you explain it to them, 8 out of 10 people will choose convenience over freedom. I don’t think there is really much we can do to change that.
At least there are still reasonably open alternatives to iOS and WP, although it’s regrettable that none of them is belong to the current strategy of Nokia (unless you count Series40). The poor success of WP7 has also forced Microsoft to open up WP8 a bit, but it’s still long way from satisfactory judging from the preliminary information. I am not expecting them to make it open source, but a level of openness similar to Symbian or even the old Windows Mobile is hardly too much to expect.
The problem is not whether you or I are crazy for trying to keep our options open and others just don’t care about that – the problem is that if it continues like this we won’t have any choices left whether we want it or not and whether are we crazy or not. None. That’s why I’m as double as opposed to Microsoft’s new strategy than I was with Apple’s – Apple was always a control freak but they are an elitist company and they cannot force upon people general behavior model. Microsoft can. And I shudder at the thought of the world where we would tell to our grandchildren how once upon a time we could build our own computers and run on them whatever we pleased without asking Mom for permission.
Yes, there is a price to be paid when living in a society and everybody has to sacrifice some of their freedoms (like punching others in the face) but the price is getting increasingly higher, and once we allow our freedoms to be stripped away it will be an uphill battle to gain them back. The world full of sheeple paints quite a grim, picture which I’d like not to be a part of.
How it could be there were no such basic functions? Can’t believe…
Indeed, it is always half empty.
GREAT NEWS
Now add the always on clock and xenon flash and I’ll throw money at the screen.
Always on clock Cant happen for L920 but L820 yes.
with a 3000 mah battery.. maybe. Idle power consumption in Win NT is higher than that on Symbian, and even meego i guess..
Actually it is much more efficient than Linux (so Android and Meego), and on par with Symbian.
Can you show me wp’s idle usage ? Symbian lingers around 0.03w / 12mA ..
Here is a screen shot:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mebft4z_U7k/T8EoiHvZm-I/AAAAAAAACCE/IVOKr9lYuB4/s512/Scr000263.jpg
Throwing money to the screen isn’t a good idea… Just throw to cash machine, because if you throw to salesmen he/she could sue you
“just like the older Symbian phones” or you mean just like any Symbian phone?
And another feature that WP 7.x users will never get to see and that should have been there from the beginning.
Oh, you little Ms. Sunshine you! Such an endless barrel of joy!
He is right, however. Trying to play the game like Apple without having the loyal following and marketing prowess of Apple (a.k.a. the Cupertino reality distortion field) WAS a major mistake from Microsoft, there is no question about it.
sure, file transfer (that probably even most Symbian owners rarely if ever use) explains a lot…
you are so funny /s
I know. I was just kidding, naturally. Its of course instead the lack of HDMI out that is the main reason for weak WP sales.
May be ability to install apps from outside sources? How does that sound.
Sounds nice. I don’t need it though, and wonder why would the average user either? Marketplace works perfectly fine for me.
Well, it certainly is not the only reason, albeit the lack of BT file transfer is a serious handicap in the emerging markets. However, you are somewhat underestimating the potential effect of a in luring Symbian power users, who certainly did (and do) use features like file transfer and USB OTG. Doing things the Apple way means attacking a well entrenched position without any special tools or loyal following to get you started. The people who want the Walled Garden (or rather Golden Cage as I like to call it) experience will choose iPhone 9 times out of 10 and WP is left with scraps.
Never underestimate the importance of early adopters is a well known maxim in marketing and by imitating Apple Microsoft has excluded many potential early adopters.
Very nice… yellow 920, come to me..
Awesome… another most wanted feature ….. now i have all the required features on win phone 8 except one. they have nfc, sd cards, multi core processors, pureview cameras, awesome screens, great UI, good set of useful apps especially Nokia collections.
:D
But only one thing is not confirmed yet …. can it support HDMI out through micro usb and hdmi adapter. This is the one thing which i want to make it complete awesome OS.
Also on my lumia 900 and i guess all other mango devices … the network connectivity will turn off when phone is in hibernate or sleep mode or locked. This should be fixed … i am expecting this in 7.8 also … this is the only complain i have as of now with my lumia 900.
And i am ready to upgrade to 920 some time soon … great goin nokia
So, can we finally live without zune software on a WP device?
Doubtful, but one can hope.
Nope, judging by the screenshots it uses a proprietary driver to simulate file access (that’s why it shows as Windows Phone which then has some virtual partitions) and that driver will come with Zune (or if WP8 & W8 users are lucky, built-in with W8).
That still doesn’t make it storage mode – it just virtualizes a drive in Windows Explorer. You won’t be getting the same thing on other platforms unless Microsoft builds a driver for them as well.
in w8 you don’t need zune to access the phone anymore but aparently they will have a dedicated transfer app nontheless. but in w7 there was news some time ago that it didn’t recognized the device, so it’s still depends on zune all the way
@incognito
It’s Media Transfer Protocol (MTP).
Which Nokia also uses when your phone is in Nokia Suite mode
Has it been confirmed? AFAIK, we still don’t know how they plan to implement it – proprietary or semi-standard MTP. And even if it is MTP, it still doesn’t make it storage mode. You cannot access all your files (or store all your files) when you don’t have file system access. And if you don’t have that, there is no storage mode to speak of.
You (or others) might be fine with it, but it doesn’t cut the mustard for me. I want to be able to access all files on my device even at risk of bricking it (btw. if your device can turn into a user-irrecoverable brick when messing with some files on it – you are doing it wrong!). What’s wrong of having your cake and eating it, too? You know, like Nokia has been doing for years? You chose whether you want to access the file system directly (USB Storage Mode) or through MTP (so-called PC Suite mode). Why would Nokia (or anybody else) hide some files from me on my own device, purchased by my own money? And why is it expected from me to be OK with that?
It should be done like on Android. You have full filesystem access with a file manager app (read-write in system directories if you’re rooted) and you can see the main media folders with MTP. That way it’s harder for casual users to make a mess with mass storage.
The problem with mass storage mode is that it makes the mounted partition unavailable to the phone. Try it on Symbian: everything on E: or F: disappears if the drive is mounted on your PC. Not unmounting the drive properly could also corrupt the filesystem and hose your apps.
I wouldn’t have a problem with MTP as long as it wouldn’t artificially restrict me what I can and what I cannot transfer/view through it – heck, I’m using SSHFS for the exact same reason of avoiding potential data corruption. I could live with the MTP overhead at least for system folders – exposing the rest is safe to be handled natively using the full speed that USB can provide. And I wouldn’t mind to have `MTP Safe` and `MTP Here-Be-Dragons` modes where the first one would be the default, and the second one could be turned on after reading that your whole family tree will be cursed if you turn it on.
But that’s not the case here – at best you’d only be able to transfer specific file types, and store them in a specific structure of which you have no control. It might be fine with others but its not fine for me and I’ll actively oppose it. Again, what puzzles me is why they are people that are seemingly non-involved in the whole issue who are opposing my desire to have a full access to my device when it wouldn’t affect them the slightest bit.
It would break the guarantees apps have that their sandbox data is only readable by then, and allow you to sideload apps.
Now I agree completely that as a developer you should be able to sideload and distribute to friends your own applications outside of paying $99 a year, but that would not require the same kind of Android style make-no-money-so-dump-it-full-of-ads crap.
There is really no convincing reason other than “just because” for having direct access to certain parts of the OS.
Data corruption is very unlikely with any remotely modern operating system, which disable write caching by default on USB mass storage devices. You would have to use Windows XP initial release (IIRC) or older Windows to have write caching enabled by default. Some Linux distributions might also have it enabled, but that is hardly a problem for mass markets.
Of course you can still corrupt the file system slightly if you yank out the phone immediately after making changes, but the damage would be limited to the file being written at the time of disconnecting, and people usually are not that hasty anyways.
Right, so “unlikely”, “corrupt slightly” and “damage limited”.
For what benefit exactly?
Also, on Symbian it’s a PITA when the gallery or music app says “Hey I see you mounted me on a PC, so let me scan the whole freaking contents again to see if anything was added or removed or modified”, versus a mediated mode where the phone can update these indexes in real time.
Nothing is certain in real life. The only way to make the filesystem almost free of corruption would be to use a journaled file system, which is not going to happen soon. Even in MTP mode you can still get corruption if the phone runs out of juice at the time of file transfer. It’s very unlikely, but the possibility is there.
In other words I was merely pointing out that potential FS corruption is not a very strong argument against full FS access. The fact that the FS has to be unmounted from the phone is a better argument, since it brings some complications like the compulsory music index rescanning.
It’s all about balance; does some feature bring more potential problems than benefits? I actually agree that mass storage mode should be an expert option like it pretty much is in newer Symbian phones that default to “Nokia Suite” mode vs. the earlier default behavior to always ask. Now you have to explicitly set the mass storage (file transfer) mode in order to use it, and it’s pretty much buried in the menus, too, so that setting it by accident is quite unlikely.
Afaik WP8 uses NTFS which is journalled. Phone running out of juice can happen at ANY operation, also saving from network, internal copying, etc, nothing MTP specific in that. Also, phone knows when it’s going to run out of battery, so we have to restrict to yanking out the battery, which is as bad an idea as yanking the power cord on your PC. Still, NTFS should be robust against that (VFAT is not).
I just don’t see what mass storage mode offers that can not be offered with MTP or NFS (I remember we used this Symbian utility to mount the phone’s disk over NFS to access logs etc in realtime, something you could not do with mass storage mode).
There’s a reason there is not a single computing experience anywhere that shares raw disks between multiple systems; there is always a mediator, be it a fileserver, a NAS, etc.
If we change the discussion to access to everything, sure, a developer/jailbreak mod that offers the entire device over some kind of access (and NFS / MTP would be fine) would be cool, that’s fine, but I understand why they don’t want it. Hell just run an SSH server with the phone mounted at “/”.
Much cooler than boring old mass storage mode
Great news! No Zune, or Nokia Suite or iTunes or the like to simply transfer some files. What an incredible achievement!
Means I could use even my Linux desktop to copy MP3 and movies to a Lumia WP8 device? The 920 becomes more probable for me. Just waiting for the Jolla announcement. Only they can beat the Nokia flagship now. Not in terms of HW, but openness and usability.
Is there Instagram on WP? Can I watch live broadcasting on http://tinychat.com ?
Anyone know if WP8 can keep its data/wifi connection alive after you lock the screen ?
still need to know about few more things like
1.ussd code support
2.divx/xvid support
3.customringtone
4.track bar in music player
5.downloading video/music from 3rd party websites. Etc
radio transmitter
folders/categories (maybe they already addressed this in 8 ?)
more form factors
you can clearely see in the pictures it suports custom ringtones.
do a search on google for audio formats on wp8 cause the suported formats are public
track bar i don’t know
downloading…..who knows
I remember Kevin Shields in some interview saying that HDMI was not there because telemetry showed that it wasn’t a much used feature.
But having control over the filesystem makes me very seriously consider at least an 820. About time, Microsoft.
This is by all intends and purposes everything but control over the file system – you just get another UI that resembles a file system view over the already existing features. Or at least that’s what one can see from the screenshots above.
What do you want exactly? Exposing a raw partition is a PITA technically, and you don’t get the ease of use of having only these predefined folders with clear actions, instead you have to browse through the internal filesystem structure including lots of “don’t touch this” stuff.
There’s a reason even Android is switching to MTP: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1958066
And if this uses MTP, it’ll work on other platforms. Is 4 days ok to wait to find out?
I can vividly remember what a PITA it was indeed to try to find files on my N900 and past Symbian phone file structures… Something more curated/simpler would be most welcome for MOST users.
Remember the time I had an N97, with an additional SD card in it. Some files went on the card and others misteriously went to the internal memory.
I did use drag/drop a lot, but it sure was a pain to find what I was looking for. And as said by Dave; there were a lot of no-no files you could touch as well, essentially destroying things you shoudln’t. Luckily I never had that problem.
The key is that with MTP, the phone can still use the partition while it’s being accessed by the computer.
You can’t do that with mass storage mode – on Symbian devices, apps and data on E: or F: disappear from the system if the drive is mounted on your computer. A forced unmount can also corrupt the filesystem.
I want to have the same access to my smartphone as I have to my desktop/laptop computers (actually, I want more from those as well, but that’s a whole other subject). You may don’t want or need that, that’s completely fine, but why is it hard to understand that some people do? You won’t lose anything if they allowed me to go through the file system so why would you actively oppose it?
I don’t get any benefit from more-and-more popular Facebook and Twitter integration in the OS functions themselves, as I don’t nor plan to use those services. In fact I consider that as a pure bloatware and when possible I uninstall those hooks. However you don’t see me running around stabbing at people that want even tighter integration, puzzled over why the hell do they need that. Everybody has different needs, and if my needs are not opposed by other people’s needs I don’t see why would I advocate against theirs. What’s wrong with the old Nokia’s way of you being able to chose whether you want MTP or proper, standardized storage mode? You can enjoy your MTP, I can have access that I want and everybody’s happy.
Manufacturers can put `here be dragons` notice when using the storage mode if they think that most of their users are idiots who will delete system files and brick their device (a shiny example of system conceived by idiots is the one where you brick your device by mere deleting a file, but ok). I was under the impression that ‘smart’ in the smartphone says that it is created for the people who are on the smart side so they need, and can effectively benefit from the added functions which featurephones don’t provide. It’s not my fault people bought into the Apple’s scam of the century – presenting a dumb phone as the definition of a smartphone.
P.S. As for MTP, I’ve already replied to yasu above. Also, MTP doesn’t work on OSX natively so you still need 3rd party software – that’s Apple way of forcing iTunes down your throat whether you like it or not.
“You won’t lose anything if they allowed me to go through the file system so why would you actively oppose it?”
Because that statement is bullshit. You can not share a raw partition between two OS’s live without mediation. There’s a reason Symbian makes the drive unavailable while it’s being mounted by a PC. Then some user is going to copy a file, the OS buffers a bit, user unplugs the device, and now the FS on the phone is corrupted.
Remember why you can not install the Qt libraries on E: drive? Go read up on it. Hint: because of mass storage mode.
” idiots is the one where you brick your device by mere deleting a file,”
Again bullshit, if you yank a filesystem that’s being written to without properly unmounting, and this goes from the biggest server to the smallest wristwatch, you risk filesystem corruption. What do you think all the hoopla with journalling and ZFS and snapshots are all about.
You *NEED* mediation. The phone could export everything over NFS or SMB, fine. It can share everything over MTP. Fine. But they won’t, because nobody needs it, and because it compromises security guarantees wrt data access and unauthorized (piracy) loading.
It gives you access to all your own content, in a way that does not compromise security or filesystem integrity, and in a way where the device can automatically update indexes and thumbnails and whatnot whenever the user adds something, in a more friendly way than forcing itunes only access.
“proper, standardized storage mode” is no such thing. It’s full of delicacies and compromises and risks.
It’s not bullshit, you could do that with Linux for at least a decade now – the key is, of course, in its native fork+lock and rollback system. The better alternative is in a transactional file system where commit doesn’t happen until everything is properly finished – even NTFS is able to do most of that ‘magic’ – and having the host OS know how to operate in such environment.
The compromise (as seen on many Symbians and Maemo/MeeGo) is to have a separate partition for all non-OS data to do with it as you please, which gets locked from the phone while being directly accessed by a 3rd party – and I can live with that compromise as long as I can actually access the rest of the system through a remotely-controlled interface. If MTP could work for the whole system in some ‘advanced’ mode, I wouldn’t mind the overhead and speed decrease of it either – after all, I use primarily SSH(FS) for communicating with my devices and mounting them to each other.
As for the bricking, I wasn’t as precise as in the above answer to yasu – I meant user non-recoverable brick. Sure, if you delete a system file you could brick pretty much any OS, just as you would brick any application if you remove some of its crucial files, but one should be able to recover from that. If you delete some Windows/Linux/MacOS X/whatever system-crucial file and brick the installation, all you need to do to recover from it is to either use the recover mode, or in more extreme cases just pop-in CD/USB/NFS with installation and reinstall/rebuild the system. You don’t need to drag your computer to the manufacturer’s servicing point for them to un-brick it. Why would it be any different with smartphones?
You already have a microkernel that controls the boot process, what would be so difficult to have it read the necessary data through USB to rebuild the system (or install a different one for that matter)? Thus, even if the user feels overly-adventurous and manages to screw the OS, he/she should be able to just pop in the device to his computer and run ‘recovery mode’.
Long story short, I think that our disagreement stems from this:
You, like many people out there, assume that your needs are the needs of everybody. I, for example, need it for a long list of reasons, some of them being purely principal ones. I might argue why nobody needs a Sky-daddy, extended parents in form of various pointless regulatory government bodies, Facebook and Windows Phone, but I won’t be as arrogant as you to claim that nobody needs them. I wouldn’t dare to assume that only my needs are important in this world.
“It’s not bullshit, you could do that with Linux for at least a decade now – the key is, of course, in its native fork+lock and rollback system. The better alternative is in a transactional file system where commit doesn’t happen until everything is properly finished – even NTFS is able to do most of that ‘magic’ – and having the host OS know how to operate in such environment.”
“Native fork and lock rollback” ? First you’re talking about one OS controlling the filesystem, not two; fork is about applications, not filesystems, lock is about applications and resources within one OS, but in your scenario the PC and phone don’t “see” the filesystem as a filesystem, they see a block device, do you think the PC side magically sees the phone write to block XYZ and vice versa? And linux does not even have a proper filesystem you can trust, let alone a transactional one.
ALso, tell me which of the 2 OS’s simultaneously accessing the filesystem, on a raw block level, no less, that can not see each other’s changes, is in charge of managing the rollback? Can’t be the PC since it can be unceremoniously disconnected; so the phone would have to release the entire filesystem to the PC, stop being useful during that time, and then when the USB is disconnected try to recover whatever happened ? What happened in the mean time to open files for running processes on the phone? Does it now need to checksum everything to guarantee no system files are tampered with? Or do you propose Android style piracy where developers can make no money so all we get is free crap full of ads?
And which filesystem is natively supported on OS X and Linux and Windows which has these kind of semantics?
In fact, what you propose requires using VFAT since that’s the only cross platform OS in the first place; even though WP8 is much better off running NTFS just like an Android is much better off running.. well something other than FAT.
“is to have a separate partition for all non-OS data to do with it as you please, which gets locked from the phone while being directly accessed by a 3rd party”
Define non-OS data? Applications can write sensitive data to their sandbox and trust that it’ll be secure; so you’re talking only about media? The pictures etc should be stored on a FAT partition that can be exposed as a raw partition?
And doesn’t that give up your entire reasoning for wanting it in the first place? There’s hardly any difference anymore now between just some OS driver creating a virtual disk, and/or MTP.
“I wouldn’t dare to assume that only my needs are important in this world.”
Nice strawman. If people wanted it, there’d be a market for it, and someone would get very rich. As it is, people don’t care. People like to have their photos backed up to a cloud.
Don’t like it, don’t buy it and move on. I suppose you don’t buy a microwave either unless it comes with source code and recovery disk.
Also, I guess you don’t live in an appartment building, or a rivitalo, but an omakotitalo on your own land (completely paid for!) that is not part of a HOA – or else you might be surprised how little you are allowed to do with your own property.
(I actually agree with you principally, but can think of a million better places to fight this battle than over something as useless (you haven’t given me any reasons, just “principals”) as this).
Just to note that I am not opposed to having a full file control system; just that I don’t personally need (or even want it) and suspect most users don’t either. To have it as an “advanced” option (with appropriate building size warning letters for us noobs to not mess with them) for those do want it would be of course an extra bonus that would not bother me.
If it’s fully standard MTP, it’s okay for me. No confirmation on that yet, however. Could just be a proprietary driver for Windows 8 that just mimics standard MTP so that you don’t have to launch Zune.
“we’ll most probably be able to use custom ringtones in WP8 without the need for 3rd party apps”
I’m confused by this statement. You can already use custom ringtones in WP7. I guess I don’t get the 3rd party apps part.
You can choose a ringtone (like your favorite themesong) but these require loading through apps usually (you cant select a music track from your library and set as ringtone).
Android OS Install Base Projected to Surpass Windows By 2016
http://hothardware.com/News/Android-OS-Install-Base-Projected-to-Surpass-Windows-By-2016/
Analysts: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/cheesemeister05/duhlines.gif
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