The In Depth Story of Meego (Part 2) & WP Transition/Lumia 800 production

| January 3, 2013 | 163 Replies

We previously read an interesting article about the future/past of Meego and what happened behind the scenes before it was scrapped; titled as the In depth story of Meego/Maemo. Well part two has been published (in Finnish) and covers a wide range of topics, mostly the transition phase from Meego to WP and the production of the Lumia 800; Jippe was kind enough to translate/summarize some of the key points in our tips section so read those below.

Or if you like read the original Finnish article here:

– Searay was originally N9 version for Verizon (RM-716). It was changed to L800 after abandoning Meego. This was worked together with Qualcomm since Intel had not support for LTE.

(Remember the first Sear-Ray unveiling? By Elop to the press where he said “No Pictures”- taking a second look at it it doesn’t seem to have any of the WP buttons on the bottom of the screen which might help support the fact that it was based directly off the N9 with minimal change)


– Verizon N9 was designed around Qualcomm Snapdragon system and they were already working on hardware adaptation.
– It was easy to change the Verizon N9 after Feb’11 to WP since they were running the same Snapdragon system on a chip.
– That is the reason, why Elop can boast the speed of creating L800, it was mostly ready by then and he was able to show it just days after the launch of N9.
– The challenge in Intel partnership was that their chip was power consumption. (as it is widely known). LG had a device running on intel chi and had planned to install Meego on it, but decided against it Spring 2010.
– Nokia has several tablet on the drawing board and the Senna code named device – that was mentioned in the previous article – was the most ready. Ceberus was the most interesting of those tablets ( It was scrapped since it was thought that developers would not be interested. Qualcomm had patented the device in the picture while they were cooperating with Nokia on N9 hw adaptation.
– Nokia also had e-ink devices on the drawing board. Those were scrapped quickly
– Ditching Meego was done in a very small group of people. LG was given no importance during the decision even though they were interested in adopting Meego. Samsung was approached, but according to one source, Samsung was never given real option to give final answer before moving on to WP.
– Carriers were thought to be the biggest opponents to moving on to Meego.
– Total chaos around ecosystem and developer relations. Ovi Store was worried that there should be sufficient amount of apps available for Meego. The plans kept on changing and decision had to be done in the wild.
– Target segments and key features of Meego devices kept on changing through time. In one meeting something was decided and in the next meeting everything was changed. Developers were unaware what was expected and which application should be developed. The pressure to have huge amount of apps during launch was heavy.
– Meego also had an impact to Symbian development. One day it was said that Meego and Symbian would have same UI/UX, the next day it was said that they should be different. Information exchange did not work over the organizational silos and common meetings were canceled often. As an example, a person working on Symbian told that they tried to find info on Meego UI from sites like TechCrunch.
– Alongside Meego development of Meltemi took place from 2010 to 2012. One of the planned names was Meego lite, but it was never decided upon.
– Meltemi was supposed to be 100% compatible with Meego. The goals were:
– To get it run on low specced devices
– To have UI to run on 60FPS throughout the UI
– To start app in one second
– To manage data in one database so that a lot of information could be retrieved at once (would allow nice hubs similar to WP)

– There were massive trouble related to everything: database, firmware versions, functionalities, new chip… According to their sources, Meltemi was not ready to ship.

They might be publishing more info on Meltemi later in 2013.

Thanks for the tip-off/Translation jippe !


Category: Lumia, MeeGo, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Viipottaja

    Couple of bummers/interesting bits:

    ” Carriers were thought to be the biggest opponents to moving on to Meego.”

    “According to their sources, Meltemi was not ready to ship.”


    And thank goodness Ceberus was cancelled.. I think Sony would agree, and they only had one hinge. 🙂

    • Janne

      I find interesting the notion that Lumia 800 wasn’t a Compal reference design necessarily but the product of Qualcomm’s and Nokia’s work towards a CDMA N9? The story is a bit vague on that one, I wonder if the reality is somewhere in-between. Anyway, interesting to hear of Qualcomm’s and Nokia’s alleged co-operation already before February 11th.

    • jiipee

      Both of those are key information and Id like to hear more about them. There is still some internal inconsistency. According to the article Verizon was ready to sell N9 v2. Aren’t they the biggest carrier in US and not selling Lumia patch one? If it was Verizon who canceled the product, then the argument that carriers were not ready to adopt Meego would be more believable. Also Telefonica was part of Meego alliance.

      Too bad Eero Penttinen (@eeropenttinen) hasnt opened up what was going on with Meltemi. He sounds like he would have been reliable source since he is now sponsoring WP.

      • Viipottaja

        True. I too was told that AT&T was impressed with Meego, all the way to the CEO. But that was a year/year and a half before the N9 was finally released, so I gather it is conceivable some of the carriers lost patience with Nokia.

        • Jiipee

          That’s interesting to know.

          I wonder if the Muropaketti interviewees considered China Mobile at all. Or NCC Docomo, who were Symbian partner and now in tizen. Also Sprint is planning to support Tizen.

          On second thought its hard to believe the carriers were against Meego. In my eyes the ecosystem factor is still the sole reason to jump ship. And the results in that front are still to be shown. I dont know enough to evaluate what alien dalvik would have meant for Nokia.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            Why Alien Dalvik?

            Surely Nokia was in position to make their own version of Dalvik if they were not planning to make Android phones.

            • jiipee

              Im so sorry Simo er Ere 😉

              You’re correct, I was using Alien dalvik more as an example that theu could have caught at least part of Google’s ecosystem if apps are a major component of it. Myriad’s solution was used since it seems to be a working solution.

              It would be like to have a proper discussion & debate with you. Behind your conscious provocations there coulcan be the ability of balanced view on things 😉

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Simo lives but Ere is long gone.

                Well, if you talk with people interested about sheep, it’s just better to talk about sheep. Occasionally. I suppose if there are iSheep, there just have to be Nokia sheep.

                Dalvik implementation is an interesting idea, but history knows examples of extreme compatibility killing the better product. It’s incredibly hard to understand why would the majority of developers make a Qt version when they had a working Android application. This is just something I can’t understand.

                Even the ancient MIDP application support had this effect. Symbian had less native applications because it was possible to code once and try to deploy anywhere. Applications didn’t really work on any platform, but it was possible to fix them for a selected platform. Nokia was lucky that those Java applications didn’t work that well on every platform. That made native Symbian development more interesting.

                Now those Android applications are supposed to work perfectly on any platform. It’s very probable that it will kill most of native development and that’s a problem for anyone wanting to have those native applications.

      • nn

        I would also want to hear the actual reasons why operators or partners were supposedly abandoning Nokia. For example there is that rumour it was because they feared Nokia had too much control over MeeGo/Symbian.

        Well, fine, but then why Elop simply didn’t give more control to others and instead jumped to the WP shipwreck where MS is the iron-fist dictator and made Nokia one of the hapless serfs? And why he thought others will suddenly fall for ecosystem dictatorship, especially the one where Nokia is supposed to be special partner, resting above others?

    • It seems like they had a billion things on their plate, between Meego, Symbian, Tablets, a fricken Ereader!!! at the very least WP/Elop has gotten them to focus a bit more.

      • Janne

        “Real artists ship.”

        • everlfr

          you with your elop love. sigh

          • Janne

            I was quoting Steve Jobs, whom one can hardly say I loved… admired at one point, but had a “bit” of a falling out when Apple became evil.

            • Ere oli aliarvostettu

              Became evil?

              Apple has always been controlling their products just as much as it was technically possible. They even removed expansion port(s) from the Macintosh when it was released in the 80’s.

              Now, what’s evil?

              Was Symbian Signed evil when Nokia introduced it?

              • Janne

                Too big of a topic. 🙂

                But I’ll answer personally that I was fond of the early-2000’s Apple when Mac OS X was a breath of fresh air, adopting and embracing standards unlike the Apple of yore, combining the best of windowing and command-line and great design.

                I think it was the iThing and the App Store that started the return to old bad ways, times thousand.

                • Janne

                  I have used Mac’s since the 1980s in many ways, but I do think their nicest period was after Steve Jobs second coming, the first decade or so. Then they became powerful and started all sorts of dirty monopolistic tricks.

                  • Ruben

                    So true. 110% correct.

                  • Viipottaja

                    Dude, you might be even older than I am!

              • Spede oli yliarvostettu

                To answer your question what’s evil:

                Exploitation is evil.
                Greed is evil.

                Apple is and Steve Jobs was guilty of both.

                • correct

                  Google is also very evil of this.

                  • MOOking

                    so is microsoft …. so what is the point of all this ?

                  • Noki

                    not that I’m a fan of Google, but those guys don’t play in the same league apple or Microsoft play in terms of bribes corruption patent trolling monopoly abuse etc etc etc.

                    • Jiipee

                      Google Is getting worse day by day.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu


                      Every corporation big enough must be evil because they have succeeded.

                      People hate Google just because they are very good making money. What makes this difficult is Android.

                      It’s the only real alternative for people abandoning Nokia. It’s very hard to hate it while it must be loved.

      • 8million

        it just proves nokia management and elop in particular couldn’t cope with that simple task to plan a proper strategy… so he easily convinced the board to cut some loose ends and the, at that time, not competetive windows platfrom crash landed

        • jiipee

          The concinsing part could have been easier than one assumes. The major US shareowner – one of which sold their shares soon after Elop was nominated – have bigger share in MS stock. Also the Board must have been weaker – especially Ollila – since it was clearly visible that Nokia was in mess internally. I couldnt be more eager to get my hands on the book Ollila said that he wants to write.

  • Janne

    Sad reading. Nokia was even more of a mess we thought, if half of that is anywhere near true. I’m hoping they have gotten the house in better shape now, so that when hopefully things sping back to life market-wise they are equipped to capitalize on that.

    • Viipottaja

      Yeah, it is important to bear in mind that not all of this is necessarily true, or is just one interpretation or exaggeration of the circumstances.

      • Janne


      • Eventhough one should be skeptical about these kind of things, they whole ‘Nokia was an internal mess’ thing comes far to often to be a lie.

        There are several stories that speak of meetings were one thing was decided upon and it was cancelled in the next. It might be common practice to cancel some products or developments before they even reach any critical state, I do believe Nokia had become to big to manage over the years and more importantly there was a certain agenda to defend among development teams. There was no coherent view and idea as to where to should go or what they should make.

        While I don’t want to really mention it I’m still going to, WP, Symbian, MeeGo or anything else. Nokia would have always gotten in to some kind of position like they are in now sooner or later.

        • Noki

          Think nokia should have done what Rim as been doing, geting rid of the old crap and excess middle management and focus on one strategy.
          Thorsten Heins might fail but he as been doing a terrific job with the tools he has available.

          • Tom

            With the limited resources available, Throsten Heins is doing a brilliant job. He may be the single reason RIM will survive and make a niche for itself. His execution is way better than what Elop has done.

            If you want a future, you need to believe in yourself. Steve Jobs did it, against all odds. I hope RIM is successful. I see Nokia as Microsoft’s bitch.

            • Noki

              Worse thing about it is that I really don’t see much of a future in Microsoft near future commitment with WP. Metro UI i believe is gonna be killed real soon since its starting to threaten Microsoft in the desktop absolute dominium. leting it exposed to chrome cheepo ARM netbooks, on tablets windows RT is dead on water. wp current sales still very low…

              I believe Microsoft will sooon enough announce windows blue that kills the metro disaster and redefines the UI paradigm once again

              • Metro, in some shape or form, will continue to exist. There might be some changes (significant ones) to what W8 is now, but essentially the idea will remain.

                Chrome is becoming a threat, but is that due to MS failing or a change in demand for what a certain type of machine does? I can’t work with a Chromebook for one. For basic browsing needs it would suffice, but I rely on much more than that to get things done and therefor need a more robust platform like Windows or even OSX for that matter.

                What Google is doing right now is using its advertising income to break into the market by going very low cost. Just look at the Nexus devices, that is unsustainable and frankly it destroys the idea of what something should cost for the consumer.

                Regarding Windows Blue. From what I heard it is more like a move away from new OS releases and onto incremental updates for a minor fee. Much like OSX does it as well.

                • Noki

                  fair points… I tend to agree with most of them, I have the feeling that you agree that Microsoft is doing it all wrong trying to create one UI for tablet and desktop..

                  You didn’t mention the chromebooks that are sealing very well as well.

                  Google is making a myriad of different devices that do certain jobs well enough for a extremely competitive price, showing that it does not need to run windows to do some jobs.

                  I think Microsoft is facing a perfect storm and worse Microsoft did not saw it commming.

                  • I haven’t had enough time or even time at all basically with W8 to say that MS is doing it wrong. But even without using it enough I find the idea of a traditional desktop and the Metro one a stupid move.

                    Either go all out or don’t do it all. Right now it is half-assed and that shows in reviews. If it does for your average consumer I don’t know, but I could see people getting confused by the switching between the old and the new.

                    I have heard Chromebooks were selling fairly well. But at those prices they should. If it can do FB, Twitter and your general browsing it is fine for most. There is a part of me that feels Google is heavily subsidizing the prices of there HW to a point where they might even lose money on some of it. But they couldn’t care less probably, their strategy is to break into the market at all costs.

                    MS is facing a storm, one that has been coming for years and they have seen it coming as well but were too complacent to act on due to their position in the market. That brings us back to Nokia; they too were in a position like MS. Leaders, on many fronts and by a big margin. Every threat that occured was waved away like it didn’t exist or it wouldn’t take off anyway.

                    And that mentality is what got them in the hole. Not the whole switch to WP, that is what merely is keeping them in the hole right now, but it didn’t get them into it. That was the entire attitude inside Nokia that had built up during the succes years where Nokia was crushing everything and everyone.

                    Maybe MS and maybe even Apple will suffer a similar faith. One thing is for sure, it is an interesting and volatile time, regarding tech, we are in.

            • Heins could come out a winner, who knows. There is one thing in his advantage though and that is the size of RIM. That company isn’t by far the size of Nokia nor is it as scattered around the globe as Nokia is (AFAIK)

              So, reorganizing the company and getting all noses the facing the same way would be easier for Heins than it would be for Elop. (Although one can argue that WP is causing noses to go the other way 😉 )

            • correct


              WHAT execution? Doing things to overvalue the stock? Fooling investors? BB10 products are HEAVILY delayed, since becoming CEO no new products have even SHIPPED yet. No the Playbook versions don’t count as they were already close to being shipped anyways.

              • MOOking

                it’s more then Nokia’s stock so you can’t say shit about stocks right now

            • MOOking

              they are bro,jump ship instead of an actual fix

          • Muhs

            u r saying thoreste heins better than elop???!. wowwww, u re definitely disconnected from the smartphone world. although Elop’s decisions r source of debate, he is doing alot better than Rim’s ceo. after seeing interviews of both, heins has a sense of unreality calling the company is very good in these days and everything is ok(while its doing worse than nokia) while elop is not disconnected from world admitting that nokia is in big trouble and at least from elop’s words, he’s trying to do something(even if he’s still trying). also u get from elop’s words in interviews that he has targets : “profitable”, “where company”, “3rd ecosystem” ” carriers relationship”….etc(even if those r still in dreamland) while all u get from heins is the 80 million(they have decreased this quarter) user base he’s proud of,nothing else. also under elop’s reign, there have been some great products : n9 (even if it was put in to a dead end ),808 PV , Lumia 920 ,asha full touch , making nokia maps alot better,deals with automotive manufacturers like merc and bmw. while under hein’s reign which has begun with the start of 2012, nothing has produced except 9320(?????!) no other products whether bad or good. and from the leaks ,the upcoming that or not that innovative ,the flagship just a touch screen with a good processor,what’s innovative in that hardware wise, what makes it unique so that i woild drop my s3 or L920 for it( i can’t believe they r making the flagship a non -qwerty phone, good qwerty is rim’s signature and people up till now r not loving rim’s non qwerty phones so they won’t buy it at all even if it’s indeed good ) not to mention no backward capability with old os’s, no carriers love, no developers love(e.g even whatsapp which support wp8 said officially that it won’t support bb10).with all that, rim under heins is going the dodo bird way. also another thing elop (like any ceo should be loyal to his comapny’s products) has loyalty to nokia’s products while hein’s doesn’t have loyalty to rim ‘s products as elop uses only lumia 920 while heins uses bb10 device and A SAMSUNG GALAXY S3 (confirmed with pics on phonearena). i am not saying elop is a good ceo or not ,but he’s definitely alot better than heins!!!!

            • Muhs

              sorry for some of the typos,a bad habbit is that when i was typing quick, some words gets dropped. lol

              • MOOking

                say all that again,when they have proper healthy stocks and their own OS running stills their Main OS just like RIM

      • Noki

        Yeap, I know a few to be actually wrong.

        Now every platform has it share of internal problems, fights, miscommunications etc etc etc, IMO Nokia to large and had way to much middle management that just created noise.

        Not all problems in nokia come from Elop, but he was hired to fix them, but he instead of fixing them he nuked them and went for a company that is as bit as problematic as nokia was….

    • jiipee

      Agree. I still dont understand why they had to destroy their OS compentence (S40 is not counted here) instead of selling the operations or setting up a relatively small skunk works team. There would be plenty of options in a year for more independent approach with different OSs.

      I cannot wait for Ollila’s autobiography and how he explains the way of organizing Nokia. That is something OPK inherited and probably made worse.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        Is it competence when they just can’t ship?

        I would say they were mostly incompetent what it comes to the OS development. The most important competence they should have is the way the development is managed. And that is something they really didn’t have. They didn’t have the most important element.

        • jiipee

          That in I agree on. Still, I still think that they had the compentence, just the top management was missing software compentence and their purchasing policies sucked. In my view it was top management incompentence which lead to bad software management. Instead of lawyer they needed software compentence in-house. I dont know how good mr Green was, but they hired him too late.

    • Viipottaja

      Off topic but just read this which demos how long even simple looking things can take. “Slam” took from 2009 to 2012 to get into a product.. Hopefully this is at least one of the things Elop helped speed up. 🙂

    • jiipee

      Most of the internal mess was documented in Risku’s book Nokia rescue plan.

  • Muerte

    Thanks for Jippe, I thought that this story would be excellent to translate, but you were faster.

    These kinds of articles are the greatest information we can get from Nokia – gathered from employees. As you can see, even inside Nokia, the employees have had to find information from tech blogs, such as TechCrunch, so how could we ever think we know what is going on at Nokia?

    Thanks Muropaketti for these articles.

    • jiipee

      And that has been the case since early 2000 based on what Ive heard. They’ve probably contacted only Finns or people based in Finland. Imagine if they could build the whole picture with the global operations. For some reason they loved to split responsibilities and always sought for the cheapest (per hour) subcontractor, when they should have change their operating model years and years ago.

  • Ere oli aliarvostettu

    So, old school Nokia fans have been yelling that it was a mistake to release the Asha phones. They have been saying how Nokia should have released Meltemi instead of the Asha phones.

    Once again we have more info about Meltemi and it seems that Nokia was not ready to publish Meltemi at the same time they released the Asha phones.

    Now, would it have been better not to release Asha phones and wait for the developers to release Meltemi? Nokia was really messing up almost everything in the OS development.

    At least Nokia got some sales from the Asha phones. Not just promises.

    • Janne

      We already knew MeeGo was severely delayed, hence N9 came out only when it did. It seems Nokia had its fair share of setting up shop to deliver Linux phones in time too, both MeeGo and Meltemi if this is to be believed, not just Symbian. Although the quality of former was still obviously better in the end.

      Clearly the organization had issues. The interesting question is, have they now resolved those? Are the teams resposible for the Nokia software now better (even if most of it is on a higher level than before)? Let’s hope.

      • everlfr

        what software team? you mean those at Redmond?

        • Janne

          The teams that make stuff like Nokia Maps, Nokia City Lens, Nokia Music, Nokia TV and all the drivers and customizations that ship with Lumia phones. Plus of course all the people working on the Series 40 operating system and HERE Maps backend etc.

          • everlfr

            ah you mean the app people!

            • Janne

              Last I checked apps are software. It is short for application, you know. But I also extended my hopes towards their HERE Maps backend efforts and Series 40 operating system. I think it is important that this mess does not happen again. So, I was merely expressing hope that things indeed have improved on an organizational level.

              Silly me, hoping for the best for Nokia. I deserve to be called out for such behaviour.

              • everlfr

                no serious software engineering is done at Nokia and you know it. According to the article N9 LTE Verizon version was close to ship (much before WP of course) and you claim that Nokia wasnt sheeping Meego?

                your brown shirt enthusiasm toward Elop Nokia is quite disturbing.

                • Viipottaja

                  yup, e.g. mapping and navigation is just putting some legos together… 😉

                  • Janne

                    “Real artits ship Apple Maps.” 😉

                • Janne

                  No serious software engineering is done at Nokia? I’m sure you just insulted quite a few of software engineers at Nokia, but since I am not one of them, I’ll let them answer your if they so choose. You are oversimplifying them to “app people” and you know it too.

                  And you see Elop-enthusiasm even where Elop isn’t even really relevant, like in this discussion. Do you think Elop alone changes a company like Nokia to better or for worse on the level being discussed in this article? The change Nokia has gone through in the past years has involved a lot of people, its successes and failures, including the board, Elop and leadership team, the managers, teams and individual employees.

                  I, and I think most of us, are now discussing Nokia at a level that is far bigger than any one man or woman. OPK didn’t cause all the organizational problems, nor did Ollila. Sure, their role and contribution deserves examination like Elop’s, but a company this size is a far more complex issue than that. Nokia’s organizational woes are those of many large enterprises and there is genuine fodder for discussion there, without even starting with the Elop topic.

                  I didn’t bring Elop into this discussion at all. I could have, but it seemed like it would just sideline the conversation. I think it would be far more interesting to understand what happened in the teams there.

                  Nor do I see why my well-wishes for Nokia deserved your ire. I really don’t know, unless you want to see them fail.

                  • everlfr

                    please try to express your point more succinctly. Its a chore reading your rants. and you sing the same tune and you know it however obfusticating you might wish to impart

                    • Janne

                      People have asked that of me often. But world is not always so simple, because I do try to convey and answer complex opinions. I am hardly black and white in my views, unlike some would prefer to believe.

                    • Janne

                      By the way, I’m glad if I sound consistent. I try to.

                      Here’s a list of things I like somehow related to MNB:

                      + Nokia
                      + Finland
                      + Gadgets
                      + Maemo
                      + Command-line
                      + Linux (Ubuntu/Debian + SLES)
                      + Qt on desktop (mobile was unproven)
                      + Lumia
                      + Historically Series 30/40
                      + Historically Symbian pre-touch
                      + Cameras (I have N8 and 808)
                      + Windows 8
                      + “Metro”

                      These I don’t like:

                      – Symbian touch in all its Nokia forms
                      – Bad user experiences
                      – Steve Jobs (after Apple became evil)

                      Here’s things that are wholly irrelevant to me:

                      * Elop
                      * MeeGo (should’ve stayed Maemo)

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Actually Steve Jobs is the genius who ‘invented the modern smartphone’ resulting the collapse of Nokia as it was in pre-touch era.

                      But why do you think Steve Jobs is consistent to MNB (before Apple became evil)?

                    • Janne

                      Ere: Of course, he and his team (re-)invented the modern smartphone.

                      That’s not why I dislike him. It was what came afterwards, the evil part.

                      Why is Steve Jobs relevant here? He isn’t. That just came up earlier in this thread so I put it in as a joke. 🙂

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Jokes here? On MNB? On comments?

                      That’s unheard of!

                      We are supposed to be serious about the mobile.

                    • Janne


                  • Viipottaja

                    Janne, have you ever measured how many words you type a minute? You might be up there with Tomi Ahonen on that! 😛

                    • Janne

                      I knew you were are a pervert (worried about your calls being recorded and all), but now an insulter too! 😉

                    • Viipottaja

                      Hey, I only referred to typing speed, and speed is mostly a good thing! 😀

                      Just ask Sir Richard Branson. :p

                  • Tom

                    “Do you think Elop alone changes a company like Nokia to better or for worse”

                    Yes, It’s the job of CEO to lead, in every company, not only in Nokia. What the f*** Elop is doing, competing with Brian Dunn of Best Buy to be worst CEO?

                    MODERATED COMMENT: Please keep it PG on here.

                    • Janne

                      Yes, it is his job to lead. But Elop also inherited a clearly dysfunctional situation and no man alone can affect everything all the time. He may fail and need to be responsible for it, sure, but my point was: This thread is not about Elop.

                      This is about far bigger issue and that is Nokia the company – and how it works or doesn’t. We can discuss what is Elop’s role in whatever good or bad, what should he had done or not, but in the end it is about Nokia and just bringing up Elop acts merely as a lightning rod, and uninteresting one at that.

                      I could bring up Elop and say, see, this is why he killed Meltemi and whatnot, not because of Microsoft. I didn’t. Things aren’t that simple (well they are, Meltemi wasn’t cancelled because of MS), reality is that the situation at Nokia was affected by many, many people and things, and that why I didn’t go just taking about Elop.

                      Others brought him up.

              • Noki

                Janne actually app development and OS development are far different things, one is about creating the tools, the other is about using them.

                • Janne

                  Of course, I’m well aware of the distinction. I am also aware that the split between software developers isn’t: OS and apps. It is far more granular.

                  I think Nokia still has way more than just “app developers”. There are people making drivers, all sorts of stuff for location, and… an operating system called Series 40. Considering NSN is there there are also probably plenty of people with networking software etc.

                  And who knows what they are doing for future R&D.

                  • Jiipee

                    Janne: I learned something from Nokia’s 20F report. They admit there that by letting MS manage their core platform, they will lose that part in the patent wars. That is something which strongly hints that there is not much software innovation expected from Nokia. Mapping area could be different.

                    Regarding apps, I dont know how widely they are developed inhouse and how much through partners.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Nokia gave up.

                      They were falling behind after developing 5 years of an OS based on Linux core.

                      They had nowhere to go after using Symbian for 10 years in mobile phones.

                      They just made a reality check.

                      Google humiliated Nokia’s OS developers with Android. In 2008 Android was considered next to nothing. In late 2010 it surpassed Symbian.

                      Apple humiliated Nokia what it comes to making money. Nokia was once a money making machine. Apple just destroyed Nokia on that.

                      They just had to give up.

                    • jiipee

                      I still dont believe that the only option was to give up. Or they should haven then sold the whole smartphone operation.

                      In any case, wasnt Android technology that Google bought and it was also offered for Nokia before. Google did not humiliate Nokia’s OS developers, they humiliated the whole western capitalism. Its going to be interesting read in the future, if Android will continue to rule. They basicly gave mobile OS for free, took the advertising revenue, lead the mobile world to hypercompetition and avoided western taxation so that nothing was left of the industry revenues to the regions who used to rule.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Had to. Well, of course they could have been working on with the strategy they had. They had the money and some reputation. They had the workforce but not enough people to make everyone work together.

                      It’s true that Google humiliated almost everyone with Android. Steve Jobs, the genius, was truly humiliated by Google.

                      Nokia’s problem was that they publicly underestimated Android by claiming that it was even not worth evaluating. That was just something extremely hard to understand. That was just arrogant.

                      It would be interesting to know the real plan Nokia had with MeeGo. Apparently N9, as it was released, was never planned that way in late 2010 when Nokia was planning to push MeeGo for the high end.

                      N9 never had MeeGo proper but Nokia was continuing to develop MeeGo with the Meltemi project. That strategy gives us some information about how realistic the MeeGo strategy really was. Meltemi was not ready when it was cancelled in 2012 and it was actually MeeGo proper.

    • jiipee

      I dont know where you got this “So, old school Nokia fans have been yelling that it was a mistake to release the Asha phones.”

      At least I thought that they fit well in the picture with similar Swipe-lite. With WP high end they should now have UI-formerly-known-as-Metro likeness in Ashas.

      What I dont get, why they put Mary McDowell in charge of the Meltemi operations. She had nothing but failures in her CV (eg. the whole enterprice unit, which was a disaster).

      There were interesting posts in from some ex-Nokian, who said that the whole operation was – again – mismanaged. Objectices were changing, chip was unproven etc.

      What I heard from a friend working in Qt was that it seemed to run nice with limited hardware, but he never got to actually use the prototype.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        In that story, there is also some information about Qt.

        If it really was something that you could just develop once and deploy anywhere, there would have not been a problem with the launch day applications. The developers could have just released the applications for the new platform.

        Apparently mobile Qt compatibility was a mess and it never really worked as it was planned to work.

        Mary McDowell may have been a disaster, but did they really have enough competent managers?

        • Noki

          people should talk about what they know.
          “Qt compatibility was a mess” its a mater of adapting the QML UI part in case it using components to the respective platform and the screen-size that is all.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            So, they didn’t have applications for the launch if Qt was working fine?

            Apparently develop once and deploy anywhere never really worked on mobile Qt.

          • Carbontubby

            Qt compatibility, at least for Symbian, was a many-headed monster that wouldn’t die.

            To all those spouting “Qt was the savior!” please, just please, do the following:
            Create a QML app on Symbian.
            Create the same app on Meego.
            Come back and tell me how it went 🙂

            Qt is a mess on Symbian because they couldn’t get things working on the weirdness that is EKA2. I assume it was a lot easier to get it working on Meego-Harmattan and even on QNX for BB10. There are some absolutely maddening bugs in Qt for Symbian that Nokia can’t be bothered to fix… looks like they never bothered to look out for bugs in the first place.

            • Noki

              I ported my apps from meego in to QNX in less than a few minutes :), granted thhey were already scalable in meego and used very litle meego qml components

              • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                Maybe you should try porting those for Symbian in a couple of minutes?

                After all, Nokia’s plan was that people would make the applications first for Symbian and then for MeeGo.

                So, how does mobile Qt for Symbian work?

                • MOOking

                  very well i take it…look at all the Qt Mobile Ported games from iOS…. you are not helping your own situation

                  • Ere oli aliarvostettu


                    Noki just claimed that games barely need any actual interaction with the OS.

                    I don’t agree with him.

                    However that’s now what I had in mind. Porting mobile Qt applications from iOS is not porting mobile Qt applications from Symbian.

                    People are telling us that mobile Qt on Symbian was crappy at best.

                    It was not possible to make mobile Qt applications for Symbian and just deploy them for MeeGo. That’s why Nokia never had a working mobile Qt strategy.

                    • Carbontubby

                      The main problem was that Meego and Symbian use different QML components. My UI and my backend code ends up being so different that hey, I might as well write two different apps.

                      Where’s the write-once-deploy-anywhere logic in that? The Meego and Symbian Qt teams weren’t talking to each other so they ended up with different ways of doing the same thing. The whole point of QML was that you would use common cross-platform widgets for the UI and JS or C++ for the logic.

                      It doesn’t help that Symbian QML is pretty buggy 🙂 Qt 4.8 fixed some bugs and introduced some new ones, which will never be fixed because all the Symbian system developers are gone.

                    • Noki

                      “The whole point of QML was that you would use common cross-platform widgets for the UI and JS or C++ for the logic.”

                      Think you are making a slight confusion. whole point of QML was to ofer you ease to create new types of UI… The premade components were created so that you din’t have to recreate buttons and all of the other platform UI elements.
                      In theory and I don’t know your apps you should have no problem porting the app logic right? the same c++ or JS should work in both places…

                      Now I did not made any apps for symbian but from what I remember the set of QML components were roughly equivalent to the ones in meego… so specifically what were your main problems in the porting?

                      # because of screen sizes and other design guidelines port could never be 1:1 code redeployment, so any UI had to be Tweaked for each platform any way. so I’m wondering what was your main issue with the porting..

                    • Carbontubby

                      Can’t add another layer of replies so this is tacked on to the previous one.

                      “Think you are making a slight confusion. whole point of QML was to ofer you ease to create new types of UI…” Yes, I should have meant components rather than visual widgets. Meego, Symbian and BB10 QML widgets all look different because they have to respect each platform’s visual style. That’s fine.

                      ListView behaves differently on Symbian vs. Meego and it’s somewhat broken on Symbian. QML Audio is a mess on Symbian and the FolderListModel is a joke that nobody wants to work on, so you have to write your own file browser using Qt components and C++ to get any decent functionality in your own app. The textbox widget on Symbian turns into a laggy mess if your document has too much text in it.

                      If you end up having to write your own components to fix all these issues, then why bother having QML in the first place?

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu


                      That’s the problem.

                      People should have been able to develop applications for Symbian and then port them for MeeGo.

                      Now it’s very apparent that this approach was not working. Mobile Qt for Symbian was never the product it was supposed to be. If it was, Nokia would be able to port his applications for Symbian but it seems that is not the case.

                      When there was no real working mobile Qt for Symbian back in early 2011, what there was no migration path to MeeGo. That was just missing.

                      People have been claiming that WP took away the migration path, but how was that possible when it didn’t exist at the first place?

                      This is also the reason why MeeGo was not going to have enough applications to make it a real alternative for Android or iOS. Without enough applications it was not possible to make MeeGo competitive.

                      That’s because Nokia didn’t have a choice but to kill MeeGo.

                      They could have selected Android over WP but maybe they were just too arrogant to do that. After all, Nokia claimed just a few years earlier, in 2008, that Android was not even worth evaluating.

                    • Noki

                      “If you end up having to write your own components to fix all these issues, then why bother having QML in the first place?”

                      because QML lets you 2?

                      Do not confuse components with QML, they are external elements…

                      the only thing you mentioned that is truly QML is the listview, and I find that bug very Strange, can you point to the specific bug???

                      As for Filebrowser component, its not an issue only nokia platforms suffer, right?

                      Audio I never had any troubles with it on Meego, sorry to hear you were having them on symbian.

                      Most of the problems you point seam easy to fix if symbian was maintained.

                    • Carbontubby

                      “Most of the problems you point seam easy to fix if symbian was maintained.”

                      This is a painful statement because it’s true. Sharing Qt between Symbian and Meego, with Meego being the intended destination, would have worked if Symbian had been maintained properly when Nokia was the biggest licensee. It wasn’t. The effort to bring together the various disparate branches of Symbian into Symbian^3 while porting Qt to it was too much for Nokia… at the same time they were developing Maemo and Meego. It was a gargantuan effort with little common vision and plenty of infighting.

                      I get jealous from all the Meego developers saying QML just works 🙂 Meego was easier to work on because it didn’t have the kernel intricacies which made Symbian perform well on older hardware but also made it a pain to develop for.

                      In short, Nokia were hoping the stars would be perfectly aligned so they could get users and developers to switch from a Qt-fied Symbian to Meego, but they totally underestimated the scale of the task.

                    • Noki

                      @Carbontubby there was Little doubt in any one that symbian was dead, IMO the bigger problems were in the development teams around it and internal fighting against change of any type. the Qt transition to me was just a “story” somthing that would keep symbian alive wille being replaced with more a more sane OS. This way users would be able to move from one platform to the other, as well as developers that would really like the change into something that really worked.

                      Now all of that is gone now Nokia decided to NUKE everything and the results are visible.

                      Again RIM is a brilliant example on how to do it. discarding the old decrepit BB 6/7 staff and middle management, for something completely and radically different, without alienating its fans and developers.

                    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

                      Noki, so, if mobile Qt for Symbian was just a story, how on earth would that kind of a story turn Symbian applications for MeeGo?

                      It was not possible to develop for Symbian and then just deploy for MeeGo. And that was the idea of mobile Qt. Nokia needed those Symbian applications for MeeGo! Without them, there was not going to be enough applications.


                      The amazing and incredible migration path between Symbian and MeeGo was just a story not intended to be actually used!

    • dss

      Well just look at what they were trying to achieve with Maltemi… those are some pretty steep goals, so ya… it takes time to optimize an OS to such a degree.

      Maybe they should have taken the android route.. compensate for lack of optimization with powerful hardware ? Right.. but you can’t do that in the low end…

    • Spede oli yliarvostettu

      Why does it have be either or? Why this Elop-like one dimensional black and white thinking where you can only do one thing and everything else must be destroyed? Why can’t you release both? Somehow Samsung has been able to release different kinds of phones with different operating systems. Release Ashas and when Meltemi is ready release them. They had different teams working on them, so there wasn’t lack of resources.

      • Jiipee

        To my suprise we agree more than I thought. Why not launch WP when it was ready under slogan Nokia’s return to US and killer business phone (which it isnt yet, but could be). if it had fared well, then silently kill most of the overlapping development. Afterall late 2010 / early 2011 they had a strong negotiation position towards MS. Unless seriously leaked MS could not know about the imminent crash of Nokia – especially if it got worse due to Feb ’11. 1 billion a year – minimum lisence fess are a joke.

        As far as Ive understood, Meltemi included also a simple tablet for emerging markets. What was not listed in the Meltemi objectives was battery life. That itself means yhat there was still room for Asha.

        • Ere oli aliarvostettu

          Without understanding the delicate specialties of the language it may be hard to notice when someone is overrated or underrated.


          Nokia should have pursued multiple operating systems.

          The problem is that they always had only one they really pushed. Elop didn’t change that.

          Symbian was a religion. Everything was destroyed if it was threatening Symbian. All this happened until it was just too late.

          It wasn’t Elop’s fault.

          Nokia just never understood that they could have more than one OS they were really pushing.

          Maybe it’s better to be ‘evil’ like Apple and give people what people want. It’s definitely not so great to be “good” like Nokia and manufacture only what the managers think makes most money for the company.

          Greed ‘killed’ Nokia.

          • jiipee

            1. Organizational silos (bad management)
            2. Peter’s syndrome (asskissers were promoted and mgmt critisicm was suffocated. My current business partner has good examples from 2005, when individuals wanter to raise red flags on where Symbian was goind and how they would need a new tool to create UI/UX, and how they should move to modern development processes)
            3. Lack of SW vision (neither board or mgmt team had true software specialists in place, just count how many “finance and business” gurus were present)
            4. Arrogance

  • flava

    Any chance for Nokia to adopt ubuntu os on their phones? 😀

    I think many people will like it! Nokia ubuntu phone, a yearly niche device. Hmm~ sounds tempting.

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu

      Surely some people would be excited about an Ubuntu phone made by Nokia.

      It’s a Linux core.

      If anyone promises a phone with a Linux core, people are almost praising the product without even knowing how does it actually work.


      • everlfr

        and your point is?

        • Spede oli yliarvostettu

          He doesn’t have a point. He’s just a bitter ex Symbian user turned Apple/Steve Jobs fan. Much like the the old resident troll Coderror was.

          • Ere oli aliarvostettu

            I assume someone here is bitter because of Elop while he is not responsible for the collapse of Nokia’s OS development.

    • As long as MS is running Nokia they will only make WP based smartphones.

      • Viipottaja

        I guess they might announce something on another OS any minute then! 😉

        • Sam

          and pay the royalties

      • Technically that is incorrect. The 808 came out long after the MS deal was made, it is the only one though (apart from the 801T that is)

    • Noki

      Its just like Joola, Linux with qt on top.

  • Francis

    IMO, if Nokia continue the development of Meego without going for WP, the situation now should be better.

    The initial batch of Meego phone, i.e. N9, already been loved by so many people although the OS seem not really mature. However, the momentum of Meego will be very strong, and many existing loyal customers are willing to wait for Nokia to complete the core function.

    However, with the very low sale figure of WP aka Lumia (2% current market share),even some said only 4 millions units sold in Q4’12, Nokia may not able to sustain such huge drop of smartphone sale and may collapse soon too.

    I’m in the opinion that why WP was not been accepted by mass public must be due its controversial Metro UI. If Nokia is to be allowed by MS to come out his own version of UI and twists, for selection to those don’t like Metro UI, Nokia may have better change to win for better sale.

    Otherwise Nokia just die ! Let everybody here just move on to new love, such as Ubuntu… Huh ?? (like me, i’m on Note II now.. haha)

    • Noki

      Its to late for any of that, nokia spent its cahs reserves promoting wp, firted all the competent staf it had. for beter or worse nokia depends on WP becoming the mitical third system, that scenario is becoming more and more less real with the ever increasing competition in the area and terrible acceptance of the metro UI.

      • Francis

        Sometime i’m really wonder why Jolla called themselves Jolla, which means life saving boat. Is this the small little path preparation for Nokia to escape, should the current strategy failed terribly ??

        • Noki

          I have little doubts its a jab at the burning platforms memo.

          Honestly I think that in the not so distant future all of this OS’s (ubunto, tizen, bb10, jolla) will eventually converge somehow, they are all rather similar, tizen being the most different one apparently, dough I suspect Qt support will be included soon enough now that Samsung is not threatened by Nokia control over it..

          • Deep Space Bar

            nope it will be a war of the ALT OSs since they will be cheaper product and not controlled by some high rulling corporation


            3 alts for the main lame garbage
            Ubuntu OS(14.04 aka SP)

            this will be an awesome year and i’m soo actually looking forward to buying smartphones after i get my N900/N9(64b) and 808 😀

            Ubuntu phone is sooo first on my list

          • Tom

            I don’t think BB10 will converge with others, it’s basically QNX. QNX is one one of the best real time OS around. I hope Firefox OS, Jolla and Tizen converge and become a open OS based on Linux, pool together their resources. Individually it’s difficult for each of them to survive unless someone big like Samsung pulls their weight behind.

            • Noki

              In the app portability/deployment area.

    • Grendell

      Got my wife a Note 2 as well and she’s loving it. Was hoping to get her a Lumia 920 but in the end they weren’t out in my area at the time I needed it so there.

    • I remember the review of the N9 done by Vlad Savov from the Verge. He mentioned something about the N9 being such a loveable device because you knew it was the last of a certain breed. (I can stand corrected on this, I’m doing this from the top of my head)

      That is exactly what made the N9 the love affair it is for so many. It is the last of something, something that will never come again and therefor should be loved even more. Also, the people buying N9’s were more of the types to be voicing there love (or hate) on the internet a lot more.

      In contrast, I’ve seen quite a few older people or first time smartphone buyers getting a WP device. They generally like what they have but they aren’t the forum or techblog type people that spam message boards with how good their device is.

      Mind you, this is not a knock on the N9. It is a great device on its own, but do think a little further when looking at sheer satisfaction for a device.

      PS: Actually, the internet is the worst place to look for good phone advice. It is easy to find all the negatives for any device. Positives are a lot harder to find, on forums and in blog comments that is.

      • Noki

        yes the average buyer for the Lumias as been identified as a more older guy. Usually someone wanting to switch is old trusty Nokia

        btw this user group usually does not expand.

      • shallow ocean shoal

        You hit the nail on the head!

        If it wasn’t unrequited love of the DOA N9, the reviews would be much harsher and it would be held to a much higher standard.

        Fenix not responding. That’s not a knock, my N9 is awesome, that’s a fact (mail not responding).

    • Tom

      I would not like Nokia to die. I like them and have used their phone for far too long. Happy to see WP die though.

  • Ruben

    Whathever all of you might say, Meego is a beautiful OS running on a beautiful phone like N9, and Thank God it is a Nokia one!

    Dead or not, there is nothing out there past a year that makes N9 feel old.

    Still, we might see a port of Sailfish. Bringing the dead to life hey?

    N9 all the way. It’s not because it’s better, it’s because it’s different. Special.

    Go android and you’ll be a clone. Go apple and you’ll be a drone. Go N9 and you’ll love your phone.

    • belle and jolla beat lumia 920

      i skipped n9 and went for 808pv

      • Ruben

        would have been my choice too. My one choice was N8 but Vodafone at the time run out of stock… and they only had N9. 808 came almost 3 months later.

        But i already loved N9 from first presentation video. Just wanted the N8 because N9 was way too expensive. But given the chance, oh boy =)

        • Ruben

          ” Just wanted the N8 because N9 was way too expensive” and of course because of the beast camera it was. 808 would have taken me.

  • lordstar

    The what could have beens.

    Nokia was such an internal mess.

    • koopa

      Nokia is still a mess inside on the contrary to the networks unit that is starting to perform in excellent manner.

      • Dave

        And everything I’ve read about MS over the years shows that they’re also a serious internal mess. Not a great match.

  • Carbontubby

    One day, they’ll write a textbook chapter on how not to manage a business like what Nokia did after 2009. Perhaps a whole book 🙂

    It all comes down to information not being shared. Symbian divisions competing against each other, Meego fighting against Symbian, crazy decisions made for Ovi services… it’s Nokia vs. Nokia, burning down the house from the inside while everyone outside looked on in morbid fascination.

    Even Apple isn’t invincible. Just look at the recent mapping fiasco and sliding sales compared to Android. There’s one thing I admire about Apple under Steve Jobs – they knew when to kill a project if it wasn’t good enough, rather than dragging things on like Nokia and hoping the stars would be in perfect alignment sometime in the future.

    • How unfortunate it may be, you’re right. The big mistake was Nokia vs. Nokia, but that isn’t a surprise. Nokia had been spoiled for years and years and years since 2000 basically. All they had to compete with was themselves, everything else on the market was truly inferior even from a non-Nokia fan perspective.

      Basically Nokia was what Apple is now. The mobile phone maker which brand name was almost synonomous with a mobile phone.

  • mucinch

    Wow poor Meego team, after all the hard work the software got canned and their hardware was sold to the competitor. They were doubly-f***d.

    • Carbontubby

      More like management f*cked them over. Mis-management.

      Meego is like the F-35 of the mobile world – plenty of promises, plenty of interested parties, yet picking one problem after another and always being delayed.

    • dss

      doubly.. lol

  • belle and jolla beat lumia 920

    new nokia is a disgrace, cant wait to see the betrayer die

    • Bassman

      Are you really such a bitter and twisted little screw up that you believe someone should die because Nokia abandoned Symbian?! How about you get some perspective you cretinous fool. We’re talking about a technology company, not about feeding starving people or the threat of terrorism.

      FFS some of you whining little idiots need a lesson in living in the real world.

      Nokia is a business, not a charitable/philanthropic organisation created to serve your personal wants. Get a grip.

      • Ere oli aliarvostettu

        While it’s fine to be a corporate fan, everyone should try to remember that Nokia is a corporation and Nokia exists because they want to make money for the shareholders.

        Nokia is not here to make the world a better place. Nokia is not here to help the poor countries or trying to make everyone more equal. Neither is Apple or Samsung.

        Some people working for those companies may have such goals but those are rarely the only goals they have.

        Steve Jobs claimed that he wanted to make great products. Marko Ahtisaari is claiming that he loves design and works because he loves it.

        What do you believe?

      • Noki

        ++1 relax I know many people that lost their Jobs, but I wish no one to die just because of that

      • Deep Space Bar

        tell that to canonical..the devs on ubuntu…they have been working free and for their users for the past 8 years….yea 8 years of listening to their users and taking PROPER FEEDback to improve…PROPERLY

        • Bassman

          Good for them and hats off to them for their hard work, however I was trying to address the rampant fanboism that is perpetuated by a number of people.

          Lively discussion is great and makes for interesting reading, however when the bellend that is known as ‘belle beats off to jolla’ or whatever his/her/its name is starts talking about people dying because of corporate decisions then I think it’s time for people to step back and take a dose of reality, ultimately we are still talking about mobile phones, regardless of how much we like them.

          • arts

            +1. i dont want to end up like them. so i dont spend that much time here anymore. Reminds me of mobile review forums…. the sheer amount of negativity drove me away and came here instead.

            But looks like this place is becoming like a asshole haven….

  • von

    Nokia was changing. All of its issue were pouring in all at one. It was a turning point for everybody at Nokia.
    The sad part is they ran away from that challenge instead of facing it head on.


    all so complicated, makes my head hurt.
    the general impression i get is that nokia had become internally fragmented regarding its future direction.

  • Vassilis

    MeeGo is still here, in the forms of Ubuntu Phone. Same core (Maemo, like Ubuntu, was based on Debian – and the “MeeGo” on N9 was still Maemo under the hood), similar UI (with full use of swipe gestures), same development framework (QML/Qt). Let’s see how it will do.

    • dss

      Ya.. i don’t know what is the fuss around the Ubuntu mobile OS… Maemo was that 2-3 years ago.. Linux, no VM.. native apps…

      • Vassilis

        It’s the ecosystem again. Ubuntu Phone is Ubuntu (the most widely-used Linux distribution), like Windows Phone is Windows. And it also seems very beautiful and functional, like MeeGo or even more. I hope it succeeds, as much as I hope Windows Phone succeeds. Talking about desktop OSs, I have both Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.10 on my computer, but I should admit that I like Ubuntu a bit more (I am writting this on Ubuntu right now).

        • Tom

          Well, Ubuntu is no longer the most widely used Linux distribution, Linux Mint is. Also Windows phone is not windows, not in classic sense. They both may look similar and that’s about it.

          • Noki

            🙂 that is just distrowatch their metrics are off 🙂

            Not a ubuntu fan here but ….

          • Vassilis

            Windows Phone 8 IS Windows. The desktop/tablet and phone editions share the same codebase. And of course Ubuntu is still the most popular Linux distro by a wide margin.

        • dss

          Same here.. but I like Win 8 better.. especially on touch.. ubuntu is useless with a touch screen.

          • Vassilis

            Windows 8 is the best OS right now for a tablet, undoubtedly. However, Ubuntu Phone gives a hint of where Ubuntu is heading, regarding touchscreens. 😉

            I don’t have a tablet, maybe that’s the reason I like Ubuntu a little more than Windows.

            • Noki

              “Windows 8 is the best OS right now for a tablet” I respectfully disagree think its ok but not great. Sucks terribly in the workstation, will be passable maybe in touch capable laptops…

              I also dislike unity BTW so 🙂

              • Vassilis

                I said TABLET. Tablets have touchscreens, you know…

                • Noki

                  yes I know what you said. I dislike windows 8 (in reality its windows RT) on pure tablets, (tablets to me are nothing more than phones with big screens and gargantuan batteries, and like phones they should have a phone OS),
                  I believe windows 8 is best on in between devices laptops/tablets. and is not great as a pure traditional desktop or as a pure tablet.

  • no picture = video please

  • Pingback: Maemo, Meego, and Nokia's transition to Windows Phone()

  • Weirdfisher

    This is like Romeo and Juliet

  • please asha full touch developer pLease enable s40 full touch with QT integration and multitasking…I know s40 is definately compatible with multitasking…..

    • Ere oli aliarvostettu


      At some point Tomi Ahonen was claiming that S40 supports Qt applications.

  • richard

    Sailfish from Jolla last year.
    Tizen from Samsung is coming this year.
    Canonical from Ubuntu next year.
    More open source OS is coming.
    Meltemi of Nokia, when? 2015?

  • James


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