Nokia and Microsoft working even closer, MS to raise Nokia visibility

| June 12, 2013 | 130 Replies

 

Engadget reports that Nokia and Microsoft are going to be working even closer. Nokia’s Ray Haddow says we’ll see fruits of this closer pairing in the next few weeks.

Some query whether it’s new software or new services. Nokia has told Engadget that Nokia and Microsoft will work to raise Nokia’s profile.

I think it’s working at least in the US. You can see MS is promoting not just WP features in Nokia Lumia, but Nokia specific features, such as imaging apps and camera functionality/performance exclusive to Nokia. It helps keep a unified image and brand, and doesn’t dilute the message by suddenly switching topic to HTC/Samsung who are mainly in the Android camp. Windows Phone is pretty much Nokia. Whilst it’s in WP’s best interest that as a growing OS to have multiple manufacturers, on the flip side, it’s also important to focus on a hero manufacturer that will act as the flagship brand too. It’s all quite a bit tricky.

Another interesting comment

Screen Shot 2013-06-12 at 00.22.03

Source: Engadget

Cheers Viipottaja for the tip!

Category: Lumia, Nokia, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, thanks for reading my post. My name is Jay and I'm a medical student at the University of Manchester. When I can, I blog here at mynokiablog.com and tweet now and again @jaymontano. We also have a twitter and facebook accounts @mynokiablog and  Facebook.com/mynokiablog. Check out the tips, guides and rules for commenting >>click<< Contact us at tips(@)mynokiablog.com or email me directly on jay[at]mynokiablog.com

Comments (130)

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  1. timpo says:

    WP is really growing on me. If only little stupid quirks would be fixed, like the fact that the ringer and media volume are the same etc.

    • Johnny Tremaine says:

      I agree; for me, the lack of independent volume controls is a deal breaker.

      You mean, you have to take a phone call at a certain volume level over, say, Bluetooth, then when switching to music, you need to toggle the volume up, then taking another call, toggle it down again, and so forth?

      What is this, 2003?

    • StefanP says:

      It’s so super stupid. It goes even further: The mute function works only for the ringer and (some?) system sounds like the “charging start” sound.
      Want to mute a game or mute the phone for a silent pre-view of a movie? “Vibrate only” does not work! And so we have to play with the volume rocker and re-adjust the volume for every situation, mute it in the evening to not disturb while putting the phone onto the bed side charging stand, unmute in the morning again. I missed already calls because of this. Nokia can do better (Profiles!), but there are restrictions…

  2. Arthur says:

    Being a T-Mobile customer, I am looking forward to the 925 being released and getting some hands-on time with that but if there is anything official made by that time regarding the “EOS” device, I might just wait for that.

    Currently Penta-band Canadian 920′s are going for $500-ish on eBay but I think I would rather wait.

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      This is exactly the problem. I can smell it in the air that the EOS device is not going to work for us and we are going to be fcked. Meanwhile, we are still waiting for the 925.

      I hope I’m proven wrong because I want the 925 and I also have an 808 that desperately needs to be replaced.

  3. Keith says:

    This is all good. I like that Nokia and MS are working even more closely now. We can start seeing that already from some of the ads MS has pushed out showcasing the 920. It’s awesome.

    But I have some beef with MS now. Don’t get me wrong. I love windows phone and I’m loving my Lumia 920. But at the same time, I hate how slow MS is when it comes to adding features, pushing out updates and so on.

    honestly, MS has a beautiful thing going on here. Windows 8, WP8, and Xbox One. All tied in together. It’s a great idea, just not too well executed. Windows 8, id say, is the best of the three so far. It’s really doing well for something that has brought big change into a familiar OS.
    windows phone could be doing better though. I don’t like that we still have missing features. Look at iOS. They even brought in true multitasking now. We are still stuck with the app switcher. We don’t have a good notification system yet. And if those WP Blue leaks were real, the notification center we will be getting looks like crap.mmi want better integration, MS. Not just another tile for notifications. Have a notification hub on the left side of the start screen, or maybe integrate it in the Me Hub that already presents social network notifications. Or that cool concept that Jay had on this blog where you press and hold the back button and it brings up both multitasking and notification view. That was great. We need to catch up, MS. This game won’t last long if it takes a year just to implement something as simple as notification center. Then there is the fact that there doesn’t seem to be too much unity between Windows 8 and WP8. Even the start screen looks different on these two OS’s. Make them unified. Make them look more similar. Make transitioning from one Windows device to another be seamless.

    And then there is the Xbox One. Great hardware, absolutely stupid limitations. I see where they are trying to go with the online checking every 24 hours but you need to understand that not everyone is ready for this! PS4 pre orders already overtook the Xbox One pre orders on Amazon UK. Clearly, MS is doing something wrong. What is with the stupid game lending restrictions and the stupid 24 hour online check in? It’s a dumb idea for this time. Maybe 5 years down the road, it would be ok. But people are not ready for that. PS4 is clearly overtaking Xbox One, and in the process, humiliating Microsoft for the stupid limitations put on the Xbox One. It’s not like they were doing bad on the gaming front. Xbox 360 is still the leading console but I’m afraid with this next generation, Xbox will fall in front of the PS4. For reasons that aren’t well justified.

    Wake up, MS. You’ve got a beautiful thing in your hands. The whole idea of the Windows ecosystem consisting of Windows 8, WP8, and Xbox One and how they communicate with each other, is simply beautiful and amazing. And you have tons of support from Xbox fans for the Xbox and tons of support from Nokia and us Nokia fans as well. Do not screw this up.

    • Dragoon's kin says:

      m$ spying on people with kinect,skype and helping the nsa…well i never have and never will trust them

      • Viipottaja says:

        1000m roll of tinfoil for $5. Interested? :P

        • GordonH says:

          Are you for real “tinfoil”?
          Read the news and then pretend to act that nothing happened. It would also help polish your comments while supporting MS.

          • jiipee says:

            Its not only MS, its all messaging/social network operators. I dont think one can avoid it since the Chinese/Russians most probably do the same and there are no choises left.

            Another thing is, if it even matters. The could be risks only, if
            – info of ordinary people are used by eg NSA worker for blackmailing purposes
            – info on public figure is sold to media by eg NSA worker
            – you apply or are in an important position and could be pressured

            How probable is it? I have no clue, but there are cases in Finland for example, where police have sold secret documents for media on well-known sportsman, who ended up killing himself

            • jiipee says:

              Btw Viipottaja.

              One should not underestimate it either. There are known cases where the information from secret services have been used also in business world. Unfortunately the bigger and less righteous contries dont have an edge there.

      • San loco says:

        I am outraged that my private information is being collected by someone other than advertisers!

      • Fred says:

        Google (android), Apple, Facebook, etc are in the exact same game.

        Do you only buy Jolla-phones without any app of major tech-companies installed?

        • zlutor says:

          Well, most probably…

          Hearing about this NSA scandal makes transferring Symbian to Accenture – US company(!) – and ditching Meego into other perspective.

          OK, I might read too many conteos but still… :-)

          • GordonH says:

            Bingo dude ;-)

          • Hypnopottamus says:

            People really need to put this into perspective. The device you have (and where it’s made) makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE! The NSA scandal has to do with your CARRIER. It also has to do with services like Google and Microsoft and Facebook and any other ISP you utilize. So if you use any of these services or are with a carrier that has allowed the NSA to mine their data, it doesn’t matter what device you have, you’ve been “compromised.”

            In other words, Symbian, MeeGo, WP, Android, Apple are ALL affected. End of story.

      • potxnoodle says:

        I understand what you are saying but do you honestly think google are offering Android as a free open platform and getting nothing back? Come on! They are collecting all kinds of information from you, as much as MS if not more!

  4. Keith too says:

    I think Microsoft tried to promote other vendors, mainly HTC, last year by calling the 8X a hero device and Ballmer choosing it as his daily driver. But Nokia put in a huge effort with a wide range of devices, price points, styles, apps etc while HTC did practically nothing after their initial launch of the 8X and 8S so now Microsoft knows they are alone with Nokia in making WP a viable platform and they are almost there. It appears they will at least achieve mediocre viability at a minimum. But I think they will move beyond mediocre before too long :)

    • t t says:

      That was so stupid from Microsoft that they put efforts to promote HTC. Now we can see what HTC did. They did One with Android. And Nokia suffered because MSFT did not put all effort to Nokia.

      • Janne says:

        I don’t know. I think people made far too much hay about the HTC promo. The damage was more in the eyes of tech followers and naysayers than anything real. Boosting HTC hopefully communicated at least a little about a multi-player ecosystem. Nokia was shipping Lumia 920 as fast as they could make them anyway, I doubt they were hurt any.

        Remember how people were saying Microsoft is screwing and abandoning Nokia, first with HTC and imminent Surface phone and whatnot… And I told people to calm down and yes, Houston, there is a special deal between Nokia and Microsoft.

      • Toni says:

        I think that it is important that HTC has that 13 – 15 % market share of WP devices. It will be significant enough for them to produce new devices and their good connections (and Samsung’s) on American carriers likely creates wider adoption of Windows Phone devices in there (e.g. Sprint’s upcoming phones).

        All-in-all, Nokia has been provided with far-reaching access to core Windows Phone features, which has enabled them to provide with user experience Nokia deems the most suited for their devices (e.g. the upcoming integration of Nokia camera lenses that can override the OS standard one). Simultaneously, they have improved the OS for Microsoft and provided ample opportunities for application providers to monetize these new features. A win-win, I’d say.

        Obviously, one can still question whether choosing other platform or sticking to proprietary OS would have been better, but in present state, I think that Nokia and Microsoft are working well together. In future we’ll see whether it is enough to gain market clout to have other manufacturers hop in, or whether the WP market will simply vanish.

    • Janne says:

      They called HTC a signature device because HTC signed a marketing deal to give their phones the WP name. 8X is officially called HTC Windows Phone 8X. It was never more than marketing and I did say so here at the time when others were freaking out. It was marketing to boost the Windows Phone 8 launch.

      Even Nokia said on February 11th (or on the second event days later) that they think others succeeding with WP would be good for Nokia too. HTC was specifically mentioned. Microsoft working to boost the wideness of the ecosystem was in line with this – and has a point.

      Now, none of this diminished Nokia’s and Microsoft’s special deal penned in spring 2011. That goes far beyond just marketing, they are closely working on WP itself together. And then there are of course the financial deals that make WP more lucrative for Nokia than for some Chinese cheap brands.

      The fact that Microsoft is now boosting Nokia’s marketing is understandable, although the lack of others in the ecosystem perhaps a little worrying. Anyway, Microsoft has gotten the only serious effort towards WP from Nokia, so it makes sense to push Nokia. HTC and Samsung are clearly not trying. Maybe Huawei will try?

      • poopshoot says:

        Agreed. I was kind of hoping HTC would try as I’ve been a long time stander with HTC ever since Windows Mobile, but honestly it doesn’t look that they just don’t care anymore…which is kinda understandable seeing they are sinking (or trying to get out of a rut right now)…

      • nn says:

        Interesting. When other manufacturers were abandoning Symbian, it was proof Symbian is crap. When the same is happening to WP, it’s just little worrying, but nothing significant and the WP is still the top OS in the world. Therefore keep going and don’t question anything.

        • Janne says:

          That’s why I said others not paying attention to it is slightly worrying. If they bolt altogether, it would be bad.

        • Jay Montano says:

          Is the situation the same?

          Is HTC/Samsung abandoning WP?

          Is the cited reason for others not joining WP due to Nokia’s dominance/high licensing rather than the OS itself?

          You know full well what the answers are.

          Nokia in Symbian was also a giant dominant behemoth. But there’s also a factor that Symbian wasn’t cutting it in the user experience end. What pushed the likes of S.E./Moto/Samsung to ditch it? Was there a new alternative that provided a more competitive user experience with less dominant players at the time?

          Question all you like nn.

          • Janne says:

            When Elop said that they want HTC to do well with WP too, he had a reason to say it – and it wasn’t Microsoft’s benefit, but Nokia’s benefit. People here said that was proof he’s a trojan, but that’s unlikely. It actually is to Nokia’s benefit that HTC would do relatively well with WP, of course with Nokia doing even more better.

            A healthy ecosystem benefits from multiple players. Rising tide lifts all boats. Too dominant players are bad for the ecosystem, unless they alone can carry that ecosystem (like Apple can – but not all can do that). Look at what happened to Symbian.

            • nn says:

              More competition between manufacturers is beneficial for the owner of the platform, which is not Nokia. The irony is that the failure of WP to attract other manufacturers is actually win for Nokia. The worst thing that can happen to them is if anyone else starts working on WP phones for real.

              • Janne says:

                I argue it isn’t that simple. It does benefit the owner of the platform, of course, but when in balance it is beneficial to others within that ecosystem as well. Of course the balancing act may be a difficult one – it worked for Nokia when Symbian was still competitive, but when it stopped being that and an alternative came, almost everyone else bolted of course.

                • Janne says:

                  (Again, let me remind that for much of Symbian’s existence, it wasn’t Nokia’s own.)

                • nn says:

                  I don’t see arguing or arguments. You just say it benefits Nokia, then you effectively say it may or may not be beneficial, covering all the options and making further discussion moot.

                  And it would be really interesting to hear how it would benefit Nokia if for example Samsung decides to kill Tizen and stand behind WP with its full force.

                  Symbian wasn’t directly and solely owned by Nokia, but Nokia was equal player (and in the end they took over the thing). With WP Nokia is just another manufacturer and MS is the owner and sole decider.

                  • nn says:

                    … Nokia was more than equal player …

                  • Janne says:

                    You just say it benefits Nokia, then you effectively say it may or may not be beneficial, covering all the options and making further discussion moot.

                    If so, I have become all the more wiser for it! Woohoo! :) I have finally learned how to survive the interwebs.

                    • nn says:

                      Well, I hope you will no longer badmouth the evil haters when you see how useful life lessons they are giving you. Anyway, yet another point where you were wrong.

                    • Janne says:

                      No I wasn’t (in my opinion), but I have learned not to argue everything with everyone. I’ll let all roses bloom a bit more. :)

                • jiipee says:

                  +1

                  It is not simple. More OEMs involved means that Microsoft gets to keep the power to themselves and decide how they decide to treat their partners.

                  When Nokia becomes basicly the sole provider after HTC has fallen outside top 10 manufacturers and Samsung is only in to have a) full Win offering, b) to manage risk and potential and c) to minimize their Android license fees, Nokia is the only go-to-market partner, Microsoft is even more dependent on Nokia. Also, the more work Nokia does on WP that still, in theory, can be used by others, they create value to MS. As a result, independent of the strategy choise, Nokia made a bad deal. They are not getting enough money from MS for all their support. Without Nokia there would be no WP.

                  Again, I try to quit writing here in these matters. in any case I might have to switch to Android soon: my N9 is dying (since this morning the loudspeaker does not work and repair cost >100eur), I could not find info on dual-SIM Asha 501 on Nokia site. Im hooked to Google services for the time being and Jolla will be probably late for me. And I cannot rely to my old emplyers’ WM Samsung, 9300 or E70 or E63 that I have in some desk drawer.

                  • Janne says:

                    Don’t feel too bad for yourself. You are not the only one who knows they should just let the debates be, but they are addictive! ;)

                    • jiipee says:

                      Ive been thinking about a new structure to this kind of blogs and forums. Id like to have more structure and traceability to the discussions so that certain commenters would not have to keep on posting the very same content with minimal input again and again. Let’s see what my dev friend says about it ;)

                    • This was it says:

                      Certain?

                      Most people commenting here have very small amount of new content to add.

          • nn says:

            Well, the argument was see – they are abandoning Symbian, therefore Symbian is bad and no further explanation is needed. I guess it was mainly because they didn’t say why they dumped Symbian. AFAIK the rumour was that Nokia had too tight grip on Symbian. So if you have statement from manufacturers that the problem was bad UI, feel free to post link here.

            Yes, for all practical purposes you can count Samsung in the abandoned camp. Frankly, I don’t see how anyone can describe the situation in any other way than that Nokia is the single main force (obviously because they have no other option), HTC made some real efforts in the past and everyone else just ignores the thing.

            How high license fees aren’t problem of the OS itself? It just means MS is trying to charge for the thing more than it’s really worth, which is of course directly connected to how good the OS is, how much wanted the UI is, and so on.

            • Bye bye says:

              One reason for the manufacturers to abandon Symbian is the cost. They were looking for cheaper alternatives and abandoned Symbian once they found one.

            • Fred says:

              Maybe if you take everything into account WP is not better than Symbian for some of us. But you have to admit that WP (and MS in general) has a much bigger potential to be a superkiller ecosystem than Symbian, no? :-)

              • nn says:

                I don’t know. How do you compare that? What does “potential ecosystem” even mean? It just looks like invitation to invent whatever future you want completely ignoring the past and the present.

            • nn says:

              OK, nice people riding to teh rescue and instantly providing reference: except for one they abandoned Symbian, therefore Symbian is bad. But when WP is in the same situation, nothing to see here.

              • Janne says:

                Symbian being uncompetitive wasn’t of course the only reason. It was one reason. I don’t think WP is inherently uncompetitive. Symbian^3 was. I know you disagree, that’s what opinions are for. :)

                That said, you were linking to my post, so I will link back: http://mynokiablog.com/2013/06/12/nokia-and-microsoft-working-even-closer-ms-to-raise-nokia-visibility/comment-page-1/#comment-890773

                Fair enough?

                • nn says:

                  Yes, thanks for the link, that way hopefully even Mark and his friends can’t miss the double standard I was talking about.

                  • dss says:

                    Good article on Microsoft’s relationship with Symbian… they didn’t like it one bit.

                    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_history/

                    Nokia did their best to avoid MS for years.. there is a good reason behind that decision, its a shame that it didn’t work out for them.

                    • jiipee says:

                      Nokia had both general management problem and lack of vision regarding software. It is amazing to think about what kind of business potential Ollila & co managed to loose: mobile banking, gaming, hw, social networks etc

                    • Janne says:

                      It is sad. Isn’t it. All sacrificed on the altar of Symbian religion.

                      Going Maemo since 2005 would have offered the platform to innovate rapidly.

                    • yasu says:

                      Janne wrote:

                      It is sad. Isn’t it. All sacrificed on the altar of Symbian religion.

                      For all its foibles and defects, salaries were payed, factories were running, research was paid for, stores were opened, they even managed to buy their headquarters, assets were acquired, some money was returned to the shareholders as dividend and there was still money set aside as profit.

                      Now, to accomodate WP, thousands of jobs have been destroyed, assets solds including the headquarters, some factories closed, stores are closing, the dividend has been cut, research greatly reduced, €3.3 billion have been burned, all that for a *belief* that at some point in a hypothetical future WP may sell enough to actually, make a profit for Nokia.

                      Symbian religion bad. WP focus good. What a joke.

                    • v.s.i says:

                      Wow, what a joke indeed. /s Good thing you didn’t apply for CEO in September 2010, or Nokia would still be selling ARM11 Symbians.

                      MeeGo with Android apps was *a possible* future (although by that time its fate was almost sealed due to years of negligence), but selling Symbian would’ve been suicidal.

                    • jiipee says:

                      Last time, Janne ;)

                      Nokia could easily have survived even with Symbian by
                      – rewriting Symbian
                      – cutting down the device range so that there wouldnt have been so many different S60 versions
                      – have software development in one organization instead of separating it to (artificial) business units, who fought each other over features causing duplicate efforts to create the same features over and over again
                      – not to cut hw to save dimes in manufacturing cost, since it caused huge amount of lost energy in optimizing the hardware and make it look slow
                      – Allow true leadership in UI development for design
                      – Fire 1/3 of management
                      – Let Ollila and his lackeys go and hire someone with sw and internet vision

                      Maemo organization was not perfect. In the very same comment where Jaaksi talked about Symbian religion he admitted that the Maemo/OSSO folks were overly enthusiastic over Linux and beautiful code and forgot the buying customer. That is also what Ive heard from people who used to work in Nokia at that time. Also Riksu’s book talks about it.

                    • yasu says:

                      v.s.i said :

                      Wow, what a joke indeed. /s Good thing you didn’t apply for CEO in September 2010, or Nokia would still be selling ARM11 Symbians.

                      I think that you should comment on what I actually posted instead on going on some fantasy about an alternate reality.

                      MeeGo with Android apps was *a possible* future (although by that time its fate was almost sealed due to years of negligence), but selling Symbian would’ve been suicidal.

                      Way to miss the point. It’s not about selling ARM11 Symbian till the end of days.

                      It’s about how criticizing something that actually contributed and turn around and be okay with something that is just consuming resources so far.

                    • This was it says:

                      @Jiipee

                      You are not realistic. Really? Easily?

                      If that was easily possible, why didn’t Nokia do that when they had time? Supposing it was easy as you suggest. Really, you said easily.

                      Because of bad management?

                      How on earth were they supposed to downsize the management and decide on design goals? It’s easy to say that it should have been done that way, but it’s really extremely hard to do.

                      It’s almost like saying that most people in Espoo could speak fluent French if they learned it in the past. How realistic is that and what’s even point in saying that?

                    • Janne says:

                      yasu: Where in my message I mentioned WP? I think Nokia should have gone Maemo full blast in 2005. Disagree?

                    • yasu says:

                      @Janne

                      yasu: Where in my message I mentioned WP?

                      No where. And that’s the thing: you routinely blast Symbian and its alleged “religion” while the successor gets a pass (even though it runs on faith and has been sacrificed a lot and still has nothing to show for it).

                      I think Nokia should have gone Maemo full blast in 2005. Disagree?

                      Hard to say because I don’t know the state of Maemo at that time and if the hardware it was running on would have adequate to try and build a mass market on.

                      But I’ll err on the size of caution and disagree. Not too fan of banzaï style of management, especially when one is responsible of a multi billion company.

                    • v.s.i says:

                      Man…

                      Jorma Ollila was CEO from 1992 to 2005. In 2003 Nokia had developed an advanced touch UI, Hildon, presumably to compete with Windows Mobile. It was canned before seeing the light of day.

                      Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was CEO from 2006 to 2010. In 2005 the first Nokia Internet Tablet, N770, was launched, and it featured the OS that was to be later named Maemo. While clearly a futuristic platform, they continued to flush money down the drain with Symbian and only sporadically followed with N800, N810, N810 WiMax, N900. N9 should have been launched exactly 1 year after the N900, but it was severely delayed.

                      Now Stephen Elop is CEO. While I personally dislike him for killing Maemo, I hope that he is, unlike his predecessors, intelligent enough not to brainlessly cancel some secret, obscure and very advanced project that Nokia could speculate for a more than ever needed edge over their competitors. From this point of view, until now, he is (it’s only been 3 years, plenty of time left).

  5. poopshoot says:

    Short and simple version:

    Nokia: Watch us, we have access to MS’s OS and we can do whatever we want! —starting with EOS…a dedicated GPU, like on the 808 that no one thought possible on WP because of the restrictions.

    • dss says:

      I thought it would take them longer than it did.. pretty impressive work.

      I was expecting it in late 2013/early 2014 .. but it seems that they will bring it earlier than that. We still have to wait and see if it is a proper port from the 808, but.. I am sure that even if it isn’t, it will still be good.

      • poopshoot says:

        Honestly, I thought so too. If they actually do a straight port from the 808-or something similar, it only proves that MS is playing nicer to Nokia than any other WP OEM. -Which only gets my hopes up for something more down the line.(from Nokia that is)….

        I hope this works out for Nokia in the long run…I want to keep seeing Nokia push out hardware, even if it is on WP.

    • mirco says:

      Honestly, only some special persons claimed that it would be impossible… and they always failed to explain why. Their only argument was “it’s not on the market, so it is impossible”.

      What should be the limitating factor here?

  6. stylinred says:

    I was somewhat hopeful for the future of Nokia with the Xbox One release but after the failure MSFT had with the reveal of the Xbox One and the subsequent reaming it got from the PS4 the future of Nokia, MSFT and WP isn’t as clear cut as it was for me

    • Mark says:

      By failure do you mean “massive pre-orders?”

      Just askin’.

      • stylinred says:

        The initial reorder rush by consumers has slowed as the animosity exploded and has stood still after songs went live I hope msft does well for nokias sake but they’ve built up a massive pr nightmare and they aren’t handling it well at all continue below

        • Just Visiting says:

          Well, Microsoft has my money for Windows 8 and Office 2010, and soon Office 2013.

          I hear the Xbox 360 is still selling, including a new model :) Microsoft will be more than OK if some of the ‘gamers’ decide they want a PS4.

    • Janne says:

      Xbox One is, indeed, an interesting question. First off, I think it is a powerful, possibly ground-breaking device – all sporting the Metro and moving it forwards.

      That said, it comes with two major handicaps: hardcore gamers are put off by the online DRM and other such limitations, but most importantly it seems to launch with a $/€100 price disadvantage. If anything last generation taught us, price matters. PlayStation lost a massive lead to Wii and even Xbox, partly due to price, partly due to being late. In the end PS3 of course is far from a failure, but relatively speaking (compared to PS2) it did fail.

      Certainly these disadvantages put Xbox One in an interesting predicament. Will the Joe Average not just care about the online DRM requirement? Or will they care? And will the included Kinect justify the $100 premium? Or will Microsoft just drop the price or offer a cheaper bundle? I mean they still have time to do that. Also, will developers love the increased DRM or not?

      It will be interesting to see how it plays out. To me, Xbox One looks like to be the more interesting console due to Kinect, but I do think hardcore gamers may gravitate more towards PS4 this round.

      • Mark says:

        Couple of points:

        1) Having used Steam on the PC and downloading most of my content digitally, I can tell you it doesn’t matter. When Steam launched there was an outcry about non-physical sales and having to log in but that went away quickly when people realised how much easier it was to use.
        2) Price is important but no early adopter was ever put off by price. This will inevitably drop as time goes by.

        There is much gnashing of teeth from tech heads on the internet who just don’t get the point – gaming is shifting away from physical media and everyone who can afford a $500 console probably has internet.

        • jiipee says:

          “gaming is shifting away from physical media”

          That is probably the biggest thread the XBox One encounters. Why should one have a device that sits still in your home, when you can have pretty good games (by the average Joe’s standards) on your tablet and you can push it on your tv, if ou want. Everything becomes mobile.Hardcore gamers are a significant segment and will be spread accross different platforms. Playstation might still have an edge there.

          I dont mean that the xbox gaming as an ecosystem and brand will die. Im still expecting that some tech will disrupt that market just what Apple did and Android continued did with mobile computing. I wish that a cheap platform will emerge, which can enable continuous backward compatibility through “virtual devices” and where the content creators ie game developers are the kings. Why should I pay for middlemen, who create close to no value to the end-user and just ensure their power in the ecosystem?

        • stylinred says:

          To that point PlayStation/Sony embraced online streaming of games, that’s not the issue
          The issue is MSFT has given itself immensely horrible levels of PR after they’re forcing people to be connected 25% of Americans have no access at all (the study included library access/work as access) so I imagine less with access at home
          Then there are no used game selling or trading unless you do it with a store (rip off prices) or a month old friend
          If that translates into bad sales is unknown as of yet but you can certainly see how a great many gamers and families will fell disenfranchised and MSFTS executives solution to those people was ‘get a 360′
          My point is that it doesn’t look like a sure thing anymore for MSFT this gem because of the above and most importantly the PS4 is more powerful, smaller, more exclusive titles and a whole lot cheaper even if you bought the PSEye

          • stylinred says:

            Oh and to add it won’t launch in Asia until the end of 2014 at the earliest and xbox360 consoles are region locked!

  7. GordonH says:

    So is Nokia working for Microsoft? It’s hard to believe that Nokia is working “with” Microsoft.
    Look at the Sony’s PS4 there made a better product then MS. Sony put good engineers(not managers) behind PS4 and now PS4 pre-orders are flying through roof. Nokia never needed to use MS products. Now Nokia is now like a crippled smartphone player waiting to do and play according to the MS boss.

    • Viipottaja says:

      As are Xbox one preorders too.

    • Viipottaja says:

      Xbox One preorders are through the roof too. Any better examples of whatever it was you tried to illustrate?

      • GordonH says:

        Duh!!! Sony is doing great without using any MS help. Sony put the right engineers on the job. So it means Sony is doing great without using any MS help. Duh!!! It means Sony has a good business going on without depending on a competitors help. Duh!!!

        I know being an MS employee is fun and all happy cause Nokia has to do everything to push WP OS.

        • Janne says:

          What is Sony using in their smartphones? ;)

          • Tom says:

            Whatever they are using

            1. They are making profit now.
            2. They are selling more than Lumia.

            That counts for something.

            • Janne says:

              Sure, it counts for something.

              It just completely refutes any point GordonH was making when comparing Sony’s gaming console business to that of Nokia’s smartphone business. Both Nokia and Sony use smartphone platforms made and owned by others.

              • capedonut says:

                just a question of time until ps will run android

              • jiipee says:

                Sony has to be actively searching for Android replacement, I cannot see how they could keep on using Android in the long run. After Nokia gave up the ecosystem business, it does not make that much difference which platform they use. Differentiation and cost are basicly all that matter and it is arguable what would be best for them since we dont know the contract terms. Not that other OEMs are giving up WP, differentiation factor starts to make sense, since they are becoming the only tile OEM.

                Back to Sony. Sony has a much broader offering in terms of screens and media than Nokia. There seems to be limited or no synergies between Android and Playstation platform. If my friend was correct, there are some tv sets with android core in use. Still, Sony would need a lot more synergies between their different product categories and they compete with Google in services, which does not.

                • Capedonut says:

                  Jumping off the android camp wouldn’t be easy for Sony because of playstore. Regarding PS, I don’t think Sony has any interest in going android, but I think that the competition from tablets and phones will become tougher and tougher and will at least force them to really push the envelope

          • DesR85 says:

            And I recall that none of their Android phones can sync with the PS4, aside from using it as a PS4 virtual controller.

            I remember that the sync between console, handheld and mobile was started by Sony a few years ago for the PS3 which can sync with the PSP and a Sony mobile phone (a non-Android one).

            Probably think that Sony still does not completely trust Android to even integrate it into PSN.

        • Viipottaja says:

          Oh now I see what you mean! K Kauppa is doing great without MS help as well!

          I’ve seen the light. :P

          • GordonH says:

            Again dumbo. Way to go DUUUUHHHH !!!
            Read my comment again. Sony is doing well with the PS4 without using the all great MS ecosystem.

            p.s I know you are not dumb. You are just doing your job.

            • Viipottaja says:

              :) Actually, I am not doing my job (i.e. am posting this from work, work that has nothing to do with mobile phones, Nokia or MS).

              I must be dumb thought as I don’t quite see what the relevance of Sony not using… err… Xbox software in their Playstation 4 has to do with Nokia using WP. Not to mention Janne’s good and more relevant comparison.

              • GordonH says:

                “I must be dumb thought as I don’t quite see what the relevance of Sony not using… err… Xbox software in their Playstation 4 has to do with Nokia using WP. ”

                Now that’s something I have to agree with out. Let me repeat and read it slowly.
                Sony is doing fine with the PS4 without using the MS ecosystem. Nokia is not doing fine with their smartphones while using the MS ecosystem.
                Sony solved their problems by using the right engineers and improving their own inhouse software production . Nokia solved their problems by using the right managers and demolishing their own inhouse software production.
                read very very slowly .

              • GordonH says:

                My point here on the PS4 is
                1. Sony will be making enough money to have a very sustainable business and great brand image.
                2. Sony is going to do very good business without using the competitors ecosystem.

          • capedonut says:

            I’am quite sure k kauppa is dependent on msoft one way or another ;)

        • Mark says:

          “Sony is doing great without using any MS help”

          If by ‘doing great’ you mean selling highish volumes of low margin handsets and having made a yearly profit once in the last 5 years then, sure, they’re doing fine. :)

          Sony sold 33 million smartphone handsets in the financial year, or about 8 million a quarter and aren’t really growing that much, except in some low cost markets. I would expect Nokia to comfortably pass this within a year.

          Research is your friend, Gordy boy.

          • Mark says:

            Oh, they expect volumes of smartphones to grow to 42 million in 2013. We’ll see.

            • GordonH says:

              Few years ago you wouldn’t have had the guts to compare Sony smartphone sales to Nokia smartphone sales.
              Now smartphones are not Sony’s main strength(money maker) so going with the Android ecosystem sounds okish. While on the other hand Nokia is using a competitors ecosystem to make more money. Nokia strangled their own OS(s), cut of developers, fans and investors to use a competitors OS while Sony used and improved their own OS and did not use the competitors OS.
              ps. I have always expected MS employees to be so free cause Nokia is now pushing their products. You guys must be enjoying your job just going into the comments sections and trying to twist arguments.

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      Brimful of Asha

    • Bloob says:

      While I view the PS4 as better value for money as a gamer, I do think XBone is fairly priced if you like Kinect / TV-features (the hardware in the box isn’t that different, Kinect 2.0 is what is driving up XBone price).

      Basically there is very little engineering difference between the two (that could be attributed to Sony or MS anyway).

      I’m guessing PS4 will win the duel this generation with a 4:3 -ratio.

      • GordonH says:

        Whoever wins is not exactly the point. Sorry for replying to you but my point here is Sony will be making enough money to have a very sustainable business and great brand image. Sony is going to do good business without using the competitors ecosystem.

  8. john says:

    ms restrictiions on xbox one then you have to pay for online service your not rich enuff. i think xbox is for the high class while ps will be for working man and high class.

    • shallow ocean shoal says:

      Which one are you?

    • arts says:

      Im pretty sure you have to get a subscription to okay online with ps4 too.

    • Toni says:

      Actually, only Sony has mentioned that in order to play multiplayer games online you need to pay a monthly fee of five whatevercurrencyunitsyouprefer. From Nokia’s perspective, the fact that Xbox seeks to create a digital distribution platform is merely beneficial, as it will provide certainly a better chance to integrate Xbox games to mobile devices.

  9. poopshoot says:

    why are we talking about consoles in the comment section. WP/Nokia and the xbox are two completely different markets. One failure on one market (you are naive to think MS will fail at the xbox) will not hurt the other market.

  10. Adam Hunk says:

    Finally! This is what I’ve been hoping for! All that Nokia needs now is some serious help and marketing for their stellar stable of smartphones.

  11. anon2 says:

    Hopefully it’s better camera software. My gut however tells me they’re looking at integration of Nokia services into the MS ecosystem e.g Nokia Mail, Music, Pulse.

  12. nn says:

    So the partnership is getting even more closer and special? I guess it wasn’t that much special in the first place.

    Still waiting to see anything tangible coming from the special partnership. We can hope this brand new and even more special partnership really isn’t about throwing a bit more money into US marketing, just to double down on the “win the world by winning in US” theory.

  13. sbw44 says:

    Guys do anyone of you know how to bluetooth a video from a 920 to a galaxy? Ive tried everything but the 920 just wont connect

    • anon2 says:

      you need to turn nfc sharing on.

    • xconomicron says:

      I believe S-beam doesn’t play nice with other nfc sharing capabilities…

      Interestingly, I can share stuff from my 920, to my One…but not my Note 2.

      • Janne says:

        S beam is better than Viipottaja with his “railroad beam” in nn’s mothers basement, though.

        • GordonH says:

          I don’t know… hard to say… But easy to see many here working from Microsoft’s basement, right at the bottom of the MS organization.

      • sbw44 says:

        Nah I am trying to send a video from a 920 to a Galaxy S2.

        When I send from the S2 to the 920 it works fine but having trouble with sending a video from a 920.

        Both the 920 and S2 is paired and everything but when I go to camera roll and long press on the video and share via bluetooth it looks like its loading something or connecting then it just stops.

        I actually recommended the 920 to my Sister and she is finding it hard using the phone. Battery don’t last half a day, struggling to share stuff via BT, Phone keeps on switching off and also her text messages is all mixed up like when I message her at 3pm it will show a completely different time in her inbox.

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