History Repeating Itself? Nokia and Samsungs Camera War

| July 4, 2013 | 119 Replies

Samsung vs. NokiaLet’s admit it, in our minds the two top qualities that we seem to associate with Nokia are build quality and amazing cameras, for the past decade or so Nokia have been blowing us away with some of the most amazing imaging technologies we’ve ever dreamt of; from the N82 and N95, to the N8 and 808 and more recently with the 920/928/925 and hopefully next month the EOS. It seems however that there is a pattern of sorts emerging between Nokia and Samsung, the two seem to be releasing their camera flagships on about the same cycle, this pattern has been mostly hidden by the fact that most of Samsung’s phones were absolute garbage.

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Back when Nokia released the N95 in 2006 with the then revolutionary 5 megapixel camera, Samsung went ahead and introduced their G800 with 5 megapixels of its own and the slogan “Photographer’s choice”. No thanks I’ll pass.

nokia_n8-cam 11850-img1543s

Then around the time Nokia released the N8 with its amazing 12 Mp camera (which remains to this day one of the best imaging devices out there) Samsung released the M8910 Pixar, with a 12 Mp camera. Once again Nokia killed it in terms of imaging performance, and Samsung’s device fell into obscurity.

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GALAXY-Camera_Right Nokia-808-PureView-Camera

More recently (last year) Samsung pretty much gave up on the phone part of camera phones, and pushed out the Galaxy Camera, which was basically a point and shoot camera running android (and 4G connectivity), with the slogan”Camera. Reborn”. But surprise surprise, we were unimpressed with its results as it failed to beat the Camera king, the crazy 41Mp wielding Nokia 808

GALAXY-S4-zoom-lens-34_610x466 nokia-eos-lens-closeupAnd of course just a few weeks ago Samsung announced its latest imaging oriented device, the “galaxy zoom”, although it looks as if Samsung chose to pretend that their previous attempts at a proper imaging device never happened; given the first sentence of their press release:

A revolutionary new device that converges the best of a high performance smartphone and camera, the GALAXY S4 zoom delivers the best of both worlds

 Of course we have yet to see what Nokia’s EOS will offer in terms of actual imaging performance, but if the past few years are anything to go by I think it’s safe for Nokia to mock Samsung’s attempts all they want.

Of course even the best camera phone in the world would mean absolutely nothing if Nokia don’t market the hell out of it, so please Nokia; making a great device isn’t enough, don’t wait for people to buy it, you have to SELL it.

 

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Category: Lumia, Nokia, Symbian, Windows Phone

About the Author ()

Hey, my name's Ali- Currently a fifth (and final) year Dental Student from Chicago; studying in Jordan. I love all sorts of gadgets almost as much as I love my cookies! Be sure to follow my Twitter handle @AliQudsi and Subcribe to my Youtube for the latest videos - no pressure. Thanks.
  • Muerte

    Oh man, that N8 still looks good!

    • Mac

      That N8 is a legend! In design and in its abilities. I still love mine to bits!! All these new devices pale in comparison to the N8. A true masterpiece for the time. :)

      • n8thebest

        Hardware-wise, and quality-wise, the N8 is just awesome.

        Software-wise though, it’s getting really annoying with the bugs and freezes on Belle, even with constant maintenance.

        So I can’t wait to finally get myself a Lumia and have a smooth and consistently fluid and stable user experience.

        • http://www.nomasla.net FireDragon

          Only if it has little more RAM available for user. I am using it. If N8 wasn’t this beautiful, strong and with this camera, I would sale and get over with lot of things I am under crises now but hey, this thing is a treasure.

          • Random Random

            Apple has been using a moderate amount of ram in iPhones. When Nokia started shipping N8 with 256MB Apple was already shipping the superior iPhone 4 with 512 RAM.

            That 256MB was ordered by OPK and it pretty much rendered N8 too weak what it comes to ram. Elop was not able to change that.

        • arg0

          If you’re brave, try a CFW. I installed Delight 6.099 (6.2 is out now) on my N8 and it really became faster and more stable and usable.

        • tiyo xi

          i will not buy eos 1, cause i think its not a final version of eos , i know there is a nokia wp phone on way with snapdragon 800, 1080p display, and even high megapixel count and biggest thing , IP58 certified , dust and
          water proof and 3.2 megapixel front cam,
          32 gb internal memo

          • lovenokia

            Is this going to come out this year? I have an upgrade coming in November and Id love to get a lumia with those specs.

      • Matej

        Agree!

  • Cod3rror

    When it comes to cameras I really like Nokia. They innovate for real in camera technology.

    PureView and oversampling is a huge innovation by Nokia.

    OIS was innovated and popularized by Nokia… white van, whatever, it’s an actual, real innovation.

    That 16 camera grid technology is being researched by Nokia.

    Nokia displays ingenuity and thinks of ways to improve camera performance in a non conventional way(i.e. just throw a bigger sensor and be done with it), coincidently, Samsung is doing exactly that and it seems in the latest iterations of their camera “phones” they have taken off their gloves completely stopped competing fairly and trying to make their cameraphones, actually look like phones, Nokia on the other hand produces, smaller but more impressive and smarter technology and puts it in an actual smartphone.

    • Random Random

      Yes, Nokia improved the picture quality with PureView, but Nokia was not the one to bring pixel binning to the digital photography.

      What I’m asking is, do you consider using and upgrading old technology like pixel binning an innovation?

      • Cod3rror

        I don’t know who actually invented the pixel binning technology. But I know when it comes to mobile phone cameras, it was Nokia that did that first.

        • Random Random

          Sure, but is it innovation if someone takes an old technology and uses it on a mobile phone?

          People say all the time that Apple doesn’t innovate because they are only first to use some technology on mobile.

          • Sue

            taking an old technology and using it on a mobile phone successfully is actually innovation.

            • Random Random

              Well.

              Just making sure you agree how big innovator Apple is in mobile.

              • MF

                Sounds like you have a major inferiority
                complex being an Apple fan and you need to
                validate your belief that Apple is a great
                innovator with everyone you meet.

                • Random Random

                  Well.

                  You didn’t get the point.

                  I’m just checking your double standards here.

                  Same people keep telling how Apple doesn’t innovate when they take something and create a new nice product from that. Now when Nokia takes something and creates a nice product from that, it becomes innovation.

                  It seems that either those both companies are innovating when they do that or neither one is not.

                  • arts

                    agree with you here.

                  • 808 user

                    This is just my opinion from what I know, I admit I have limited knowledge so welcome any corrections.

                    Apple taking something that other manufacturers have been already using in MOBILE PHONES and creating a new nice product from that for me is not innovation.

                    Nokia, for example with pixel oversampling and OIS (amongst so many other things we all enjoy today on our Symbian handsets (they’re still missing from WP apart from Pureview v2)), has taken something and created a new nice MOBILE PHONE product from that – the first to use the tech in MOBILE PHONES.

                    That to me IS innovation.

                    I dunno, correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve PERSONALLY never read about Apple being first to bring to MOBILE markets features etc, but I’ve read so many articles on Nokia being first to bring to MOBILE markets many features.

                    I am an Apple fanboy as for Music production I love my MBP and can do pretty much everything I need to beyond that functionality that Windows provides, but when it comes to mobiles, I’m not gonna touch an iPhone until it brings lots more features I’ve enjoyed on my N8 and now 808, if ever.

                    I have a Lumia 710 work phone and can’t get any WORK done on it, what a pile of user-unfriendly crap. Will not touch another WP till they can come closer to Symbian for functionality and 808 hardware, if ever.

                    Looks like it might have to be Android for me in a couple of years – maybe, and would prefer, Jolla if things go well with them and they can get some good mobile imaging too.

                    • 808 user

                      My GF has an iPhone 4s and I think it’s ok but hasn’t got anywhere near the features and HW I won’t accept less than. I also have a Chinese dual-core, Jelly Bean SGS3-a-like so I’ve used most mobile OSes to have an informed opinion. The 2 are great for games though, I must admit and it’s nice to have a load of free apps to mess around with, but NONE of them are essentials I can’t live without on my 808.

                      I was DJing in a festival in Ireland with my pal a couple of weeks ago. In the house that we stayed we didn’t have any electricity until the second night and guess how long my pals iPhone 4s lasted? With a full charge that morning, it died before the end of our first night.

                      My 808, especially after activating low power mode on the first night, still had 56% battery on our second night. This is after 3G net-surfing on the train to meet my pal for an hour, fm-transmitting tunes in his car to the airport for 30 mins, watching a couple of short vids and listening to music with earphones on the plane for an hour and fm-transmitting tunes in the hire care for over an hour on the first day. Speaking of which, Irish radio on the West Coast isn’t particularly stimulating so that drive from the airport would’ve been pretty boring without a Symbian handset among us.

                    • guerrahp

                      Absolutely Agree!! So much for Supporting the ecosystem- 810 low phone space due to Other Storage issue. And no there is no storage checker app that works on Lumia 810. Microsofts support is – factory reset!?!? Wtf!

          • sf

            putting a technology from cameras to a mobile phone and make it work properly and effectively that will make people go WOW, is definitely an innovation. We know you’re a Nokia/Symbian hater but that is it, mate.

            • Random Random

              So, you agree that Apple is definitely an innovator when they release new features copied from somewhere else than mobile?

              • GordonH

                Start praising Elop and these guys will not take your comment into circles.

              • 808 user

                Would love you to give some examples as I personally have not read of any.

          • swain

            This technology was only used in satellite imaging. Nobody ever imagined that it can be used in a pocket able device. So yes, enabling the technology to be used in a cell phone is definitely innovation.

            • Random Random

              Oh no.

              That’s not true.

              Pixel binning was already used in compact cameras long before Nokia did that.

              Then again if you speak about lossless zooming as a crop zoom, that was also implemented by Apple, years ago with the early iPhone. In a clumsy way and in low resolution but still ot was implemented. I don’t claim Apple invented it on mobile but they sure used it.

              • MF

                You are comparing 41mp zoomed to 8mp, with Apple what 3mp zoomed to 0.5mp? Hurray with iZoom!!!

                • Random Random

                  Are you saying that it’s all about the resolution? In that case resolution was the innovation.

                  What I’m saying is that yes, Apple had lossless zooming in iPhone because it was and is possible to take a picture and the crop zoom it. Not with the same resolution as with 808 but then again, the difference is in resolution and not in the idea of zooming.

                  • MF

                    Again you miss the point. 41mp zoomed down to 5-8mp still provides the same level of image details as a regular iphone or s3 at the same resolution. Your iphone zoomed to 0.5mp basically brings your image quality down to year 2003 era. It’s the right idea implemented correctly that is innovative, not the raw concept itself.

                    • Random Random

                      That’s a pretty lame explanation. Implemented correctly and who defines a correct implementation?

                      Nokia 7650 was not a bad phone when it was released but it’s no longer a correct implementation for someone who wants a smartphone. Are you saying it was not a smartphone?

                      The implementation of the crop zoom in iPhone was a correct implementation at that time.

                      If the correct implementation of a crop zoom requires 100MP sensor in the future, does it render the innovation of 808′s crop zoom invalid?

                      No.

                      It’s not about the resolution. It’s about the idea and implementing the crop zoom.

          • arg0

            If “using it on a mobile phone” includes miniaturisation of the optical components and development of a dedicated graphical chip, then yes sir, it may not be invention, but surely innovation it is.

          • steve

            Wow, that is a major underestimation of pureview v1. It doesn’t simply bin pixels as has been done in many devices, it uses an algorithm designed in house by nokia (aka not just copying an idea) to analyse neighboring pixels, creating a 5/8MP image from the 41MP in an intelligent manner, rather than just averaging as you assume they do.

            The method they have actually used is so much more powerful than simply binning and averaging pixels. Nokia’s technique allows better elimination of noise among other improvements. As far as I know what nokia did in the 808 hasn’t been done before in cameras. Innovative indeed.

            • Random Random

              It’s the same basic idea. Taking several pixel in order to make a image with improved quality and less resolution.

              About the algorithm.

              There are similar ones used in image processing. In the end it’s taking old ideas and improving those.

              It’s just a matter of definition if it’s called innovation or not.

        • Anibesh

          I dont think the 808 uses pixel binning. It uses pixel oversampling.

  • SLAYER

    you make it sound like they are stalking nokia. they just copy whatever is out there, you know, throwing **** and hope something might stick?

    it eventually worked out for them, unfortunately.

    • Random Random

      What is the reason for anyone not to copy all the best bits they can?

      It’s extremely stupid not to do that.

      • torcida

        I knew it, true sammy-lover…

        • Random Random

          No, you failed to understand the point.

          Nokia should have copied iPhone by creating an almost exact copy of it. Before Samsung managed to do that.

          Nokia was pretty stupid for not doing that.

          But then again, they only badmouthed iPhone and claimed it would remain as a marginal product. While they were supposed to copy it as fast as possible.

          • jiipee

            That is true.

            Despite the fact that on public they claimed Iphone was marginal product, they panicked after N85. Had not N85 been a success, Im sure Nokia would have managed to do it – complete organizational overhaul. With N85 they go false signal.

            • JGrove

              Ehhh, going with the half baked N97 was where Nokia got wadded up in the berm. That was at the release of the iPhone. Missed shift and ass-over-tea kettle.

              We all know now that it was all internal usurping and piss-poor management that pushed Nokia the Direction it went.

              The past is history, the damage is done and over with. Nokia is focused now. Slowly but surely, yesterday’s darkness will have completely faded from today’s morning sunlight.
              That sunlight must be brought by Eos.

          • MF

            Yes it’s true Nokia would have succeeded if they’re were able to copy the iPhone early on. Somehow they were organizationally paralyzed to be able to respond adequately. Having said that though, I have issues with anyone copying or cloning from anyone, be it Samsung or Nokia. It’s just not right.

            • Random Random

              Why not?

              That’s how we get better products.

              What if Nokia and Samsung never copied Apple with the idea of touch screen phones? We sould have only iPhones and pretty much everyone else would be making those old phones.

              That would be a better choice better in your opinion?

              • MF

                Why not? Maybe because it’s much more costly to be an innovator and costs much less to just copy or reverse engineer? Because we wouldn’t want the copycat to drive the innovators out of business? Nokia would have continued to dominate while Apple driven out of the market. Would have been a very different world today.

                • Random Random

                  Sure, but Nokia was not able to implement a copy of iPhone. Then again, Samsung managed but they didn’t kill Apple.

                  Patents are for protecting intellectual property. Copying something that’s not protected should be fine.

                • 808 user

                  “Because we wouldn’t want the copycat to drive the innovators out of business?”

                  Couldn’t agree more.

              • 808 user

                Actually, I’m glad Nokia and Samsung copied Apple, with the release of touchscreen phones.

                I’m also glad that Apple invented the iPhone which was released a month after LG’s Prada, the first mobile phone with the innovative touchscreen tech.

                • Random Random

                  When was Prada released?

                  Then again, are you suggesting Prada has a similar UI?

                  • 808 user

                    The LG Prada (KE850) was announced on December 12, 2006 and released in May 2007.

                    The first iPhone was announced by Steve Jobs on January 9, 2007 (nearly a month later than the LG Prada announcement) at the Macworld convention and then released June 29, 2007 (at least a month later than the LG Prada release).
                    I can’t confirm when both companies thought up their ideas initially (wish I could, at least with Apple as that could mean I’d be working for them and in a very senior highly-paid role and would suggest pixel oversampling, OIS, FM transmitter, HDMI-out, Bluetooth file exchange etc, etc to them), but as facts go, this is all we can work with.

                    I’m not suggesting Prada has a similar UI at all, I am merely pointing out that Apple copied LG, so didn’t innovate with the idea of touch screen phones as you had assumed and subsequently suggested to MF.
                    It is a very common mistake made by everyone I’ve ever spoken to about mobile phones and touchscreens – this is a perfect example of what Apple has done and done better than most with their copying – copy, (sometimes) improve, announce, release and market it like it’s their own innovation so everyone believes that it is, sell like hotcakes on hype created by awesome marketing and genius announcements – not like those Nokia clowns who can’t announce or market class and market-leading innovation.

                    • Random Random

                      Are you seriously suggesting that Apple copied Prada in less than a month and then vastly improved it? The iPhone was hardly a copy of the Prada.

                      We know quite a lot about the development process of the iPhone. Documents about that has been released with lots of pictures about prototypes.

                      If you are referring to a touch screen phone and saying that Prada came before iPhone, sure, but then again touch screen phones predate back to the early 90′s.

                      I never claimed Apple invented touch screen phones. They just invented the modern smartphone. That’s something very different.

                      There is nothing wrong with copying but Apple’s copies are usually vastly improved versions.

      • SLAYER

        it is not just the “best bits”, they literally try to do their version of everything out there. I didn’t say it was wrong or anything because it clearly worked out for them. they have enough resources to operate this way.

  • lmiked

    Interesting article Ali!!

    I fully agree with you!!! Let’s just hope that Nokia doesn’t blow it on the marketing this time, and the release date/time to the markets after presenting it… Let’s hope that they’ll get the devices available worldwide within a month/month and a half after it’s presentation, and not 3/4/sometimes 6 months after when everyone that actually might want to buy it, will already have bought an iPhone or the current galaxy series because it was already available in the market and they got tired of waiting for nokia’s prodigy!!

    A little side note now… Isn’t it funny that they (a lot of bloggers and users) called the 808 a “phone on a camera” and it has a “huge hump”, “might be hard to put in the pocket”, and now the galaxy s4 zoom that completely looks like a point and shoot camera (at least when seen from the back), but it’s called a smart cameraphone, and “still pocketable” just because it’s Sammy galaxy s4… They forgot to say it’s FUGLY (IMHO)!!

    cheers!!!

    • Random Random

      S4 Zoom is pocketable just like 808 is. Neither of those is slim enough. That’s why they are niche devices.

      People just don’t go around claiming how thin S4 Zoom is and how the hump doesn’t matter. That’s what happaned with 808 and it also resulted with lots of bad publicity for the product.

      • MF

        There’s publicity for the 808? Most people don’t even know it exists, and if they do, the next reaction is “but it’s Symbian”.

        I know you’ve been trying to redefine what constitutes a smartphone along the lines of the iphone. If it doesn’t look like an iphone then it’s a niche product. Nice try to win by default.

        • Random Random

          No.

          A phone doesnt’ have to look like iPhone if it’s slim.

          People just want to buy slim phones. Currently the thick phones are a niche.

      • lmiked

        Ok! Point taken!!
        But… What do you have to say to the fact that is FUGLY!!???
        Seriously, just looking at it, hurts my eyes!!! That design should be forbidden!!! :p haha (JK)… But seriously now, it’s FUGLY, next to it the 808 is Miss Universe!!

        OH, and just FYI, I’m not a Samsung or any other brand hater (OK, maybe I hate Apple and all iThings a little bit), I know when to recognize good phones/tablets/devices… I’ve held the S3 and S4 from my friends and I actually like them, they’re good devices, although they feel a little light and frail to me, I mean, whenever I take my friends S4 to play subway surfer, I’m afraid it’ll slip my and cause it’s smooth (kinda polished), or worse, I’m afraid I’ll hold it too tight and break it, since I own a lumia 920 which is a lot more solid hardware-wise. I can also recognize that the iPad no matter how much I hate it, is a very fluid and practical device and one of the best choices of it’s type.

      • 808 user

        The 808 is very pocketable indeed and is more than slim enough to fit into all my jeans and work trousers etc, very comfortably. In fact, it fits in my pocket much better than my wallet and my wallet isn’t exactly big and I’m not flush so isn’t packed out either.

        The S4 Zoom on the other hand would be pretty uncomfortable, especially when I sit down and would make me look like I’m excited all day when I’m standing up/walking – maybe some guys want that look but I don’t think that’s really for me.
        BTW, I don’t need one to make an accurate assumption the bulk of the S4 Zoom is obvious.

        • 808 user

          You can’t compare the size of those 2 phones. The 808 is on the thickness limit, maybe even over it for some people but for me the shape of it makes it perfectly fine with the hump a well-acceptable compromise.
          The S4 Zoom is way over the limit and given that it’s thickness is over the majority of the device’s surface area, there’s no compromise. It would be far worse than my wallet – at least my wallet flexes – then again maybe the Samsung will have some flex too with the cheap plastics they like to use.

          • n8thebest

            Don’t waste your time with him. People need to stop feeding the trolls. If you ignore the trolls, eventually they stop trolling.

  • dss

    Samsung got spanked when they were both using Symbian.. then Sammy switched to andro and that set them back even further..

    But as soon as they figure it out, I will get interesting. They also need to admit that the compact P&S market is done and just move all that technology to their mobile phones.

  • No Thanks

    great, finally, I want to have my EOS phone, wait a minute, Windows Phone? no thanks. Complete FAIL

    • Random Random

      It’s still better than Symbian.

      Of course.

      Symbian was unstable crap.

      • dss

        Perfectly usable and better than WP in many ways.

      • MdN

        100+ apps and games on my N8. No problems except in your head.

      • No Thanks

        I can bet that you are one of those foiled windows phone fans that came out from under the rocks, when Nokia announced its partnership with Microsoft, right? yes, you should be, you are all the same

      • viperkid

        only fools and morons will think Nokia’s PureView is not an innovation. i hope u can develop a better “camera system” on any mobile OS and beat Nokia 808 PureView’s performance.

        you are an unreasonable samsung lover and troll – Symbian is not crap, maybe its someone..? but i believe the previous Nokia management is crap. they are d ones responsible what went wrong with Symbian. actually, any other OS can become crap, it depends on who is developing it.

        • Random Random

          PureView was a collection of technologies borrowed or copied from other companies.

          If that’s innovation, then I guess you really call Apple a huge innovator?

          • 808 user

            Borrowed or copied from other NON-MOBILE PHONE companies.

            • Random Random

              Using several pixels to create a super pixel came from outside the mobile world. Crop zooming from the mobile world.

              Yes, it’s about the definition of innovation.

              If we start looking at truly unique innovations, those are rare in the mobile phones we are talking about. It’s mostly about improving existing technology.

              • 808 user

                I’d personally consider improving existing technology for mobile world usage, particularly in phones as innovation, but that’s just my opinion. I understand if you disagree as that’s my interpretation.

                What you said about copying and improving helping the industry, I couldn’t agree more on and am glad for the wonderful gadgets I enjoy regularly that it has happened. Credit where credit is due, but some get way more credit than they deserve and others don’t get any credit. Apple I think on many fronts falls into the first category as well as the second sometimes, and Nokia falls into the second category much more than it should.

  • ushoda

    btw, the name of the samsung was PIXON haaha not pixar

  • ADN

    Nokia run for you life
    WP is a suicide

  • http://twitter.com/mkousaki Merito

    samsung failed in every tries and will one more time.kkk

  • n8thebest

    Yes, Nokia absolutely MUST market the EOS aggressively and properly!

  • nokiaaa

    yes nokia killed everyone with imaging possibilities but in every other segment samsung ate nokia.. and that is the worst part..
    to most people they are satisfied with average camera but crazy for big screens and instagram of course hahaha..
    and nokia still doesn’t have any of that.
    i will buy eos at any cost(if its better than my 808)because camera is the most important part but for others at the moment many people love sony experia Z. good(average 13mp)camera, big 5’0 screen, quad-core, nice interface, waterproof, beautiful design. definitely crashes samsung s4(all versions of it).
    hope windows phone will someday be in front of ios(behind android)and have good market share and nokia will regain throne..
    and in near future while they have some money left because they are only one that tries some new technologies(pureview) while others are copying each others which is sad with all that money you cant present something new, something unique..

  • Imarius

    go home samsung, nokia dont lose camera wars, carl zeiss dont put their name on average products.
    come july 11th your going to see what a real camera phone looks like.

    • dss

      We already have a very good example of what a proper camera phones should be..

  • apamau

    “Of course even the best camera phone in the world would mean absolutely nothing if Nokia don’t market the hell out of it, so please Nokia; making a great device isn’t enough, don’t wait for people to buy it, you have to SELL it.”

    I like this line. Nokia need to do their part, and MS have to do the bigger part, getting more apps and updated apps from major apps player.

    Most people agree Nokia having a great phone, any poll out there proven if nokia have an android, it’s a no brainer for anyone to grab it..and we all know why it’s not selling. the platform is 100% of the reason. So MS really need to help nokia a lot more, whatever they have pour in, proven either not good or not enough at all.

  • arts

    Did everybody just forgotten about the Samsung galaxy s 4? Lol.

    according to aas, it performed the same as the 808. That’s some amazing s**t there and with a tiny ass sensor too.

    I think it really shows that Samsung is catching up.

    • lmiked

      So… If aas says that the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Moon is Red, and that the world is going to end in 2012 (oh wait!! we’re already in 2013!!), you’ll take their word for it??
      Friend, it’s very likely that not even the S6 or S7 will compete with the 808 in terms of imaging, let alone the S4…

      Has it occurred to you that maybe… they’ve been asked to say something like that… in exchange for say… huuh money!!??? It wouldn’t be a 1st… There’s definitely a lot of that happening out there, though I’m not saying that is the case there cause I don’t know.
      And, I’m quite convinced that the S4 is nowhere near the 808 in Imaging terms, I’m no expert though.

      cheers!!

      • arts

        =.= what an condescending ass.

        • lmiked

          Oh sorry… Did I hurt your feelings?? It’s called internet!! If you can’t take other peoples opinion without snapping, why do you even come to a blog?
          well you know what is said, it takes one to know one so…
          At least I don’t go around insulting people, I express my opinion freely and respectfully, no matter how accurate or wrong it might be, and I do try to go by my personal experience and facts and not hear say…
          well, I don’t know what aas means or is, and am not even going to bother, but apparently for you, if they say something, then it must be true!! Then I’m and condescending ass… Or maybe, you’re TOO NAIVE, and believe everything you hear/read, have you ever thought about it from that angle before insulting another person you don’t even know? Guess not!

          • 808 user

            “you’re TOO NAIVE” is what you said to arts.

            Actually, you’re TOO NAIVE for not knowing what aas means or is, and not even going to bother.

            If you spent a little while reading Steve’s article you might come to realise that you’re talking complete bullsh1t.

            “Has it occurred to you that maybe… they’ve been asked to say something like that… in exchange for say… huuh money!!??? It wouldn’t be a 1st… There’s definitely a lot of that happening out there, though I’m not saying that is the case there cause I don’t know.”

            You are right on a couple of things there, that ISN’T the case and you definitely don’t know.

            Let me summarise the test for you so your assumptions don’t get the better of you.

            The only thing the SGS4 performed better than the 808 at was at taking Macro shots, which even my N8 is better, it’s the imaging flaw of the 808 (as well as no setting for shutter time) but is the compromise of having the great sensor and lens tech to have the awesome image quality for everything else.

            Steve himself admitted that with his test as well as the fact that he didn’t compare the flash on fast-moving objects and a couple of other things as the 808 would’ve spanked the S4 hands-down. He deliberately omitted some things to make the test a bit ‘fairer’ on the S4 otherwise there’d be no comparison.

            The SGS4 is indeed catching up, but still has many miles to go.

            • 808 user

              Sorry, forgot to say that you are right, but for all the wrong reasons…

            • MF

              Steve@AAS has a history for some pretty lame camera comparisons. His scoring methodology is extremely subjective and very strongly reflects his bias.

              For example, he happened to be very impressed with the S4′s camera. You can be sure that his comparison will somehow provide a result that will support his prejudice.

              Another example. Steve loves his N8 and believes it is the best phone ever. When the 808 was initially released, his initial comparison reflects his prejudice that the N8 will give the 808 a good fight. True enough, his comparison shows that the 808 is only slightly better than the N8.

              Subsequently, he starts falling in love with the 808. Conveniently, future comparisons involving N8 and 808 started showing a widening gap compared to the initial comparison. There’s just no consistency and it is almost a direct function of how he feels about a device at that time.

              And the latest is his infatuation with the S4. His comparison shows that S4 is tied with the 808. Under the “flash” category, he gave the 808 a lot of points due to the Xenon flash. In fact, if the 808 did not have Xenon flash, the S4 would have clearly won that contest. And he gave lots and lots of points to the S4 for excessive over-sharpening/contrast enhancements/noise reductions, despite acknowledging that this is very subjective and reflects his own personal preference. These showed how ridiculous that comparison was.

          • arts

            Sure. this pretty respectful:

            So… If aas says that the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Moon is Red, and that the world is going to end in 2012 (oh wait!! we’re already in 2013!!), you’ll take their word for it??

            if you arent going to give somebody the benefit for the doubt…. why should i? ;)

    • zymesh

      s4 is way out of 808s league. check out my camera comparison shots.

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/46583539@N05/sets/72157633987447033/

    • 808 user

      Samsung is catching up, but is nowhere near. The only thing it performed better than the 808 at was at taking Macro shots, which even my N8 is better, it’s the imaging flaw of the 808 (as well as no setting for shutter time) but is the compromise of having the great sensor and lens tech to have the awesome image quality for everything else.

      Steve himself admitted that with his test as well as the fact that he didn’t compare the flash on fast-moving objects and a couple of other things as the 808 would’ve spanked the S4 hands-down. He deliberately omitted some things to make the test a bit ‘fairer’ on the S4 otherwise there’d be no comparison.

  • MF

    Sounds like you have a major inferiority complex being an Apple fan and you need to validate your belief that Apple is a great innovator with everyone you meet.

  • Sam

    Current Nokia is not worthy of a mention alongside Samsung.
    Samsung is HUGE.

    • john

      Hi. samsheep.

    • 808 user

      So is their battery drain levels lol.

      My battery level goes down when the phone is switched off on my Jelly Bean SGS3-a-like. I know it’s not the real deal, but I think that Android has something to do with it not the SGS3 KIRF HW.

  • MF

    That’s an LOL.

    Nokia looks at all phones today, and asked how do we provide zoom which still has the same image quality as the iphones and galaxies of today. Or at least good enough for viewing on computer monitor and small prints. How they do it? Not some stupid digital zoom like done by many others including the fruit company. They use a larger sensor so that cropping means a decent sized portion of the sensor is still being used. And then for low light shots instead of allowing cropping, it oversamples to get cleaner images. It’s the clever mixing of these two ideas thats brilliant. Understand?

    • Random Random

      Sell.

      808 just can’t reach the level of detail S4 Zoom has when zoomed to the max.

      Yes, I’m talking about zooming here. Nothing else. There is a word zoom in the name of the S4 Zoom so it should be obvious that the zoom is compared.

      • 808 user

        I think I’ve read about 100 times (OK SLIGHT exaggeration) now that you think the S4 Zoom is better than the 808 at zooming.

        No it’s not!

        • 808 user

          JK.

          We all know the S4 Zoom is better at zooming.

          Can you give it a rest now please?

          We all get it – or at least I do.

          Can you at least give it a rest for me? I think you do like to state something you have researched so have an informed opinion, but seriously you’ve said this one thing sooooo many times. If people are still not convinced, please just let them think what they like with the zooming comparisons and just correct them on something else you might know better.

          Thanks in advance.

          • 808 user

            BTW, what happens if the EOS turns out to be better than the 808 on everything imaging (not likely, but let’s go with hypothetically here for the sake of us getting an answer to this question) and better than the S4 Zoom (better level of detail AND better image quality) at zooooming???

            Never mind, forget I asked. We all know the 808 is better than the S4 Zoom at zoooooooming anyway ;0)

            • Random Random

              The unreleased EOS could be better on zooming if it had an optical zoom. Without that it’s probably not possible.

              It’s highly likely that it’s way superior to the 808 just because of the software and the 3rd party software support. Then again if the camera hardware supporting the sensor has been upgraded, it’s going to provide a huge performance boost over the 808.

              One notable improvement should be the support for rapid shooting.

              • MF

                If you claim the only purpose of the 808 is zooming then you are missing the point. Perhaps this is deliberate, as I’m sure you are quite familiar with this topic as it had been discussed quite extensively at MNB?

                • Random Random

                  No.

                  Some people just don’t want to compare the zoom. It seems that you are one of those people. Always pointing out how there is more to the 808 than just zooming.

                  Sure there is.

                  But this is about comparing the zoom and that’s where 808 just can’t perform.

                  I have never ever seen here in MNB anyone really comparing the zoom. The reason is obvious.

                  I was just reading a story about S4 Zoom and how it can provide people the best possible zoom. They mentioned, that it’s intended for people who want to have a great zoom. The word is zoom. Yes. Zoom.

                  All I hear here is complaints how zooming is irrelevant or how it’s not really usable. That’s just the same crap some people were trying to make us believe when they claimed that applications are irrelevant, cpu power is not needed because of Symbian and phones are not supposed to be easy and smooth to use.

                  • MF

                    For someone who claims to own an 808, you don’t seem to know a whole lot about it. The key to the 808 is the large sensor, which is 5-6 times larger than used in normal smartphones. A larger sensor allows for smaller crop factor. Meaning you can take a larger image without cropping in. Looking at it slightly differently, it is as though you have a few iPhone sensors stitched together. That’s where the zoom comes in.

                    There are several advantages of the Pureview zoom. One obvious one is that it maintains a constant aperture, whereas an optical zoom has smaller aperture as you zoom in, resulting in less light passing through. Another advantage is that you can have a larger field of view, and choose to crop the image anytime later. With optical zoom you simply do not have that option available. Not to mention, the camera module takes up less bulk than a camera with optical zoom.

                    There are several other advantages (and disadvantages) which have been mentioned in this forum several times before. I just don’t know whether you deliberately feign ignorance, or you are actually quite unfamiliar with both sides of the argument.

                    That’s about zooming. Go back and understand the arguments about optical vs digital zoom before you come in and talk about S4 Zoom vs 808.

                    Now the second part about a large sensor. Do you know what is one of the main difference between a DSLR and a point-and-shoot camera? A DSLR has a much larger sensor. And do you know what a large sensor does? Hint: image quality. Do you know which compact cameras have sensor sizes larger than the 808? Not many. Certainly not the S4 Zoom. The S4Z gets totally crushed in this aspect.

                    You have this nasty tendency of picking a very narrow criteria in order to cast the 808 in a negative light. It is quite obvious that you have very little understanding of the 808 when all you think about it is zoom, or maybe you simply chose to feign ignorance.

                    I love my 808. I love the very low noise images taken with it. I love the ability to take high res images. And I don’t really care too much about taking 10x zoomed images. I don’t need to come into MNB just to read spam about how the 808 does not take 10x zoomed images. Just make your point and GO. Stop spamming.

                    Another thing.

                    I like Jay’s photo of a Lumia 920 being strapped to a large lens. If we could tape a ginormous super-zoom lens to it, maybe RandomRandom will say “this camera is equivalent to the 808 and S4 Zoom, equally pocketable, equally large but still a niche product.”

                    • Random Random

                      You completely miss the point.

                      You state that you don’t need the 10x zoom. Fine. I know that. However please don’t start telling that 10x zoom is irrelevant because you don’t need it.

                      I was talking about the capability of doing the max possible zoom. With S4 Zoom that’s 10x.

                      Apparently you don’t know that much about the sensor and zooming technology 808 uses. While zooming, only a small fraction of the sensor is used. If zoomed to 10x, the sensor surface used is less than 10% of the size of the sensor 808 has. That’s the power of the optical zoom.

                      When digital zoom of 808 is used, less and less of the sensor surface is used.

                      You didn’t know that?

                      If you did, why did you conveniently forgot that when you said that the aperture size changes when optical zoom is used.

                      Please accept that fact and maybe, just maybe, your ignorance will go away.

                      And in the end, when zoomed to 10x 808 can produce less than 0.5MP image with less than 10% sensor surface used. At that point S4 Zoom can produce 16MP image.

                      And your only defense for that is that you don’t need 10x zoom. I’m talking and have been talking about people who need that.

                    • MF

                      Of course I know that it uses less of the sensor. Your point is… ?

                      Do you know Sony RX1? It’s a lovely camera. Full-frame and costs $2800. Please go troll Sony’s forum by saying ad infinitum how it doesn’t have 10x zoom unlike the S4 Zoom.

                    • Random Random

                      Why are you talking about trolling? Is it because you don’t accept my opinions or do you have something against a conversation with some arguments?

                      My point about using less of the sensor? This is why “If you did, why did you conveniently forgot that when you said that the aperture size changes when optical zoom is used.”

                      Sony RX1 is hardly a mobile phone. It’s not intended to be used as a mobile phone. That’s why I don’t talk on that site.

                      Yes. It seems that you just want to forget the drawbacks 808 has when the digital zoom is used.

                      That’s pretty unfair from you.

                    • MF

                      Did you actually read what I wrote? The part about the 808′s sensor size being 5-6x larger than a typical cameraphone? What’s the problem about using some of that extra size for zooming?

                      Different cameras serve very different purposes. Those with larger sensors tend to have more limited zoom range, because zoom lenses tend to be much larger and heavier when the sensor size is large. On the other hand, it is easy to fit zoom lens if the sensor size is small. Just like it is meaningless to compare S4 Zoom’s 10x zoom versus the RX1, it is equally meaningless to compare to the 808.

                    • Random Random

                      Yes. I know what you wrote.

                      You are trying to say that it’s useless to compare 808′s zoom to S4 Zoom’s zoom because 808 just can’t compete with it on max zoom.

                      There is no problem for using the extra surface for zooming, but that’s just not going to perform like an optical zoom. Far from it.

                      I guess you read what I wrote but you didn’t understand that.

                    • MF

                      It’s like comparing apples and oranges. These are 2 different type of products. As I mentioned, zoom lens are HUGE when the sensor size is big.

                      Take for example the Nikon 1 series, which has quite similar sensor size to the 808. This is the picture of Nikon 1 attached to 10x zoom lens.

                      http://timg.eprice.com.hk/hk/dc/img/2013-01/08/3540/alexchow_3_Nikon-_221897a270d411acee6565b2a4af2085.jpg

                      The lens used by S4 Zoom are real tiny because the sensor is small.

                    • Random Random

                      Like comparing apples and oranges?

                      In that case it would be irrelevant to compare 808 with iPhone or top sellers from Samsung.

                      These are 2 different type of products. Very thick phones and slim phones.

                      I haven’t seen you complaining someone making comparisons like that. Is it because 808 is doing so much better on those but it’s just destroyed when compared to S4 Zoom’s zoom?

                    • MF

                      Your choice of word “destroyed by the S4 Zoom’s zoom” makes just as much sense as saying the RX1, a camera costing $2800 is destroyed by S4 Zoom. It’s just childish and betrays your true motive to find anything, no matter how trivial, to criticize nokia. There are always positives and negatives about nearly every thing, and it all comes down to design choices. As it is, you have chosen to highlight every single negative of the 808, without imposing the same standards to other devices. The 808 takes way better images than the S4 zoom with sensor being 3x larger. And this is the setting that matters for most people. Yet you have chosen to use the 10x zoom as your tool to bash Nokia. To have a proper discourse we need to be fair and balanced and not to engage in intentional taunting which you appear to be bent on doing.

                    • Random Random

                      You still don’t understand?

                      I’m talking about the zoom and in that 808 just can’t compete with S4 Zoom.

                    • MF

                      Will you say the RX1 is destroyed by S

                    • Random Random

                      As a device or when looking at some specific feature?

                      You will have to learn that there is a difference between those two.

        • n8thebest

          Stop feeding this troll!

          • Robchan

            Yes i agree! Very annoying troll! Just let him be. Don’t fall into his trap. Keep feeding him and this comment section will die.

            • Random Random

              Yes.

              You are afraid it will die because of facts.

              Fanboys just hate facts. That’s something they can’t really handle.

  • manu

    now camera is the only strength of nokia

    • MF

      Now camera is only one of many strengths of Nokia – there, fixed it.

  • Drigombaki

    Random Random you are now getting boring. Do you honestly have to come on every EOS or Nokia 808 article to repeat yourself that the S4 zoom is better for zooming than the 808 or EOS. In the run up to the launch of the EOS there will be new articles, are you going to spam the board again with your S4 Zoom is better for zooming again?

    I just don’t understand what motivates you to comment on every article with the same line. Don’t you get tired of saying the same thing over and over again on every article?. What motivates you to behave like that?. Are you a Samsung paid poster or what?

    Do us all a favour and f*** off where you came from. We are sick and tired of your trolling!!!

    • Random Random

      I see.

      Apparently you are not sick of some people spreading lies about 808′s digital zoom beating an optical zoom?

      You don’t seem to be complaining about that even while people claiming that are obviously trying to make people to believe something that’s not true.