Rumours: Nokia EOS – v1 July Launch? Engineering miracle shell cramming huge sensor in deceptively slim profile

| May 23, 2013 | 204 Replies

Nokia EOS

It’s getting to be that time again where the littlest bits of information get feasted upon. Some ‘more’ information have sprouted regarding the EOS (or at least version 1 of it. From the last post based on the reader conversations they mention something dsmobile said about there possibly being two devices. EOS 1 and real EOS later in the year? :/)

http://mynokiablog.com/2013/05/18/rumours-nokia-eos-808920-hybrid/

Anyway, the news is that it’s

  • being launched on July 9th. 
  • An engineering miracle with how Nokia managed to fit such a huge sensor in a relatively slim shell – possibly thinner than the 920 due to the way the edges have tapered. The bulge protrudes but not enough so as the design is able to mask it. At no point are we said to be able to feel the bulk.
  • New camera interface – Nokia Camera Pro with full manual controls

 

Source:  WMPU Via  reddit.com

Category: Lumia, Nokia

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Comments (204)

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  1. Francis says:

    Microsoft WP is main culprit for Nokia under performed in Camera for Lumia series.

    WP8, until next revision, is only supported dual core CPU. Hence, only Snapdragon S4 is being supported i.e. maximum camera resolution is limited to 20MPix only.

    Newer Snapdragon CPU 800,600,400&200 all of them are Quad Core based. Non of them being supported by WP8 at the moment.

    Do not daydreaming of 41MPix “Pureview” in Lumia series until end of this year. Since only Snapdragon 800 is capable for Camera resolution up to 55MPix (and also required separate ISP – signal processor), if Nokia intend to use this CPU 800, the price will be rocking high too! Can you afford it ??

    Intermediate solution is to release improve version of 808 with refresh Belle OS (can not understand why this old OS can handle better camera resolution than so call modern OS of WP !!), in order not to disappointed present 808 users, and hold them longer with Nokia, until next real high end Lumia flagship camera phone arrived.

    However, Apple iphone 5 (8MPix) and Samsung S4 (13MPix) camera also very good and widely available now. Nokia current Lumia 920 series only good in low light (what a joke for “flagship” camera phone !), i doubt it might be too late for Nokia WP to capture the market share. The HTC One, which Jay abused it as HTCrap, already been sold 5 millions unit just 2 months from released !

    • Peter L says:

      808 can handle the resolution because it has a custom DSP chip for that purpose. What exactly stops Nokia from using similar chip with Windows Phone?

      • tom3256 says:

        Microsoft crappy system

      • Kustylicious says:

        Broadcom gpu 24mp max plus custom dsp for downsampling plus the other 20mp.

        You need a real time os to control both chips at the same time.

        This can’t be done on wp8

        You need a single chip solution for android/wp

        • mirco says:

          You made this up yourself, didn’t you? Pureview doesn’t work like that at all. first of all, it would be insane to process half of the picture in a dsp and the other half on the gpu. Even if you would fo it like this, why should you need a real time OS? A DSP usually can be much faster with its dedicated tasks than any gpu/cpu and so one part of the data would need to wait for the other part. Sorry, but your idea of pureview is simply wrong.

    • Janne says:

      Francis:

      First, WP8 supports whatever Microsoft and Nokia need it to support. If they need it to support quad core on the next Lumia launch, it will. There are no inherent limits like that and if Snapdragon 800 or whatever is planned for the next product, then WP8 will support that. Sure you can argue implementation time needed for certain features, but whatever the roadmap is, they will have those things ready. Just because they haven’t been released yet, doesn’t mean WP8 doesn’t support the things they already have in labs. You know, Microsoft releases new chipset support with OEMs launching actual products based on those new specs at the same time… so WP8 has and will have had support for those things prior to public announcement. It is very, very likely the reports are true: Nokia already has quad-core Lumias in labs running WP8.

      Second, while possible that Nokia chooses to implement 41 MPix (or the like) using new Snapdragons, the myth that older versions don’t support such resolutions is still just a myth. Nokia can and could have implemented it the way 808 does it, through an additional chip. HTC has examples of this being done on Windows Phone and clearly if Nokia needed that, Microsoft would support whatever they needed – don’t think for one second they wouldn’t. Again, things take time to develop, but in all likelihood implementation is already done and these things are rocking in the labs.

      WP7 had some inherent limitations due to the old CE kernel, but WP8 has none such limitations – so don’t believe myths. WP8 supports quad-core and 41 MPix just fine.

      • alsocan says:

        huh? Which additional chip does htc use? We’re talking about a dsp with close integration with the os here, not an isolated device.

        • Janne says:

          As far as I recall, HTC has used both audio DSPs and extra photography chips in their Windows Phone devices. And considering Nokia’s special status with Microsoft (yes, there still is and always was one), don’t think for a minute that Microsoft isn’t implementing whatever hooks, nooks and crannies Nokia needs to get whatever PureView they want on WP.

        • mirco says:

          Please explain me why the DSP needs to be integrated closely into the OS? I guess not, since there is no reason.
          The data rate they need for PureView#1 cannot go “through” any OS or any mobile CPU.

      • nn says:

        And where you got that WP7 inherently can’t run 41Mpx or quadcore? If your logic is WP8 supports whatever MS wants it to support, then of course same applies to WP7 and it can run these things. Both WP8 and WP7 is software that can be rewritten, and ultimately both are just names that can be slapped on whatever MS wants.

        Yet, while it’s true that in theory WP8 can run anything, it’s of course nonsense for all practical purposes. Because the problem is how much time and resources would be needed to port it to this “anything”. And as is evident porting WP to new HW (or making trivial changes like always on screen) is very very hard and time consuming, and it’s killing Nokia. They just can’t keep up with the industry progress, lagging year or two behind others and ironically even behind themselves.

        But we can’t admit that, because then ditching Symbian with its nightmarish code base that is slowing down Nokia and replacing it with code from the greatest SW company of the world would look like idiotic move. So instead we will claim WP8 allows them to do anything you can think of and do it half a year ago, that they didn’t do this or that is because Elop voluntarily choose so for reasons unknown. But certainly not because it was impossible in given time span for reasonable cost.

        • mirco says:

          So, your claim is basicaly that adding features to Symbian or porting it to new SoCs is inherently easier than for WP7/8? Seriously, Symbian development was supposed to be faster???

          • nn says:

            No, I’m not claiming that for the simple reason I don’t want to waste time going back checking precisely what Symbian phones with what HW specs Nokia released and when.

            However, I see no noticeable improvement over Symbian days, including all the people ferociously explaining why nobody needs this or that feature.

        • Janne says:

          nn:

          And where you got that WP7 inherently can’t run 41Mpx or quadcore? If your logic is WP8 supports whatever MS wants it to support, then of course same applies to WP7 and it can run these things. Both WP8 and WP7 is software that can be rewritten, and ultimately both are just names that can be slapped on whatever MS wants.

          As far as I know, HTC actually used additional chips in WP7 phones, so anything is possible. Probably even multi-core could have been slapped on, but realistically it would have been far from optimal – and given the timeline, wouldn’t have made much sense. Microsoft probably wasn’t interested in spending too much time providing the underlying hooks for a WP7 PureView, should they have been necessary. Make no mistake, the story is different for a WP8 PureView.

          So yes, perhaps WP7 could technically have been adjusted to do all such things, but in my view that would have been probably unrealistic at this point. It was less suited for it and technically more of a dead-end – and definitely a dead-end considering Microsoft’s strategy. WP8 on the other hand is now definitely ready for these kinds of contigencies in a way that isn’t just some “they can program anything” type of pipedream, instead a realistic assessment of what WP8 can and will do.

          I’m just busting myths. These “WP can’t” myths are out of control and usually not based on anything, really.

          • dss says:

            You are talking about two different systems..

            WP7 = Windows CE
            WP8 = Windows NT

          • milojko says:

            WP actually can but at what cost? You can use the truck to move 40t from one city to another and you can also use 100 cars, while the second option is also possible it is really not that viable for many reasons.

            • Janne says:

              At a cost less than it took with Symbian.

              • dss says:

                Considering how long its taking them to bring it to market.. as they say, time is money, and the longer it takes, the head start they had with that 5year investment will diminish quickly.

                With a phase 1 WP port they would’ve established their lead position in imaging for years to come.

                Most people think that the 808 is a.. prototype phone, proof of concept, or something along the lines… so it doesn’t have that same effect.

                Its a premium/cutting edge tech device with very little marketing.. it has no effect on the general public.

                A 41Mpix Lumia however, would’ve been able to establish their leadership positions…

                Its either a case of bad management, which wouldn’t surprise me considering who the CEO is, or its a technical limitation which they are trying to work around…

                • Puhelimellanikin says:

                  Nokia should make PureView 1 much thinner if they wanted to sell it.

                  It’s possible, but Nokia should change their designs before that can happen.

                  • milojko says:

                    it’s good you don’t comment automotive industry as you would complain about trucks being so big :D

                    • Puhelimellanikin says:

                      I would do that if they sold trucks as sports cars or maybe even as family cars.

                      Nokia could have made 808 lot thinner, maybe even something like 12-13mm and without the hump if they just copied the camera positioning from Apple.

                      But hey, it’s better to add a hump and have niche product?

                    • Capedonut says:

                      The analogy doesn’t really work, as the purpose of a truck is to transport cargo ,not to it’s motor :)

                    • Capedonut says:

                      Then again SUVs were pretty main stream in the 90s

                    • Puhelimellanikin says:

                      No to it’s motor?

                      Anyway, Nokia just should make 808 thinner with the same camera. Naturally they should also use WP instead of Symbian.

                    • Capedonut says:

                      Apparently a “to” too much in previous comment and I agree about the thinner wp eos . That’s probably what we’re gonna see eventually… Hopefully it will be light and thin enough

          • nn says:

            Again, on what facts you are basing the claim that WP7/WinCE is technically inferior to WP8? In fact WinCE was quite good and mature platform, MS will spend years trying to optimize WP8 kernel to WinCE levels. And that is if they make WP priority, which so far they don’t.

            It seems you are inventing these claims just to make it appear all these decisions were based on deliberate evaluation of technical facts, that the switch was obviously simple and necessary once the expert analysis was on the table. It’s good way to hide the fact these decision were deeply political (teh united windows ecosystem!) and had very little to do with underlying technical details.

    • dss says:

      Symbian has a very modern kernel.. that’s how.

  2. alsocan says:

    Nokia probably lacks the ability to inject into windows phone the software needed to operate the dsp. They could branch windows phone out since they apparently have the right to do so but it would be very costly to develop and maintain a separate branch in the long run. Cheaper alternative is to wait for microsoft to develop and provide the apis needed for dsp integration – but of course windows phone has so many issues that microsoft may be prioritizing other developments rather than a complex Nokia exclusive feature. Cheapest alternative would be to capitalize on the 808 and just release an improved version since all the hard work has already been done and tested – but of course Nokia is not in for their own success but for microsoft’s.

    • Janne says:

      I doubt they lack any such things anymore. Maybe they lacked them under WP7 and it took some time to get ready, but not anymore. Most likely EOS is running just great in labs and we are just waiting for the rollout to happen whenever the management deems it best. It is quite possible EOS was delayed to give Verizon, T-Mobile, Vodafone time to launch 925/928 peacefully before another exclusive onslaught of EOS with some other key partners.

      Rumour is, EOS was ready by MWC already. I find it plausible.

      • mirco says:

        It is more than plausible given the fact that a device has to be “ready” long time before the launch in order to pass all tests and regulations for the countries and carrieres where it is supposed to be sold. This is underestimated by many of the people here…

      • nn says:

        So, basically, Nokia keeps these functional gems in labs and refuses to bring them to market? Big progress indeed!

        • Janne says:

          We both agree Nokia’s speed in ramping up their product line and global distribution has been abysmal. I expected a lot better from them.

        • milojko says:

          ya the Nokia management wants to play fair game and not obliterate Samsung HTC and others…they practice philantropy when they have free time

    • mirco says:

      Branching Windows Phone? Do you have any clue what an OS does and what not (…qualitatively, not even quantitatively)?

      Maybe Nokia followed this approach of branching the whole OS with Symbian (which would explain why some devices like the 500 or the E7/E6 always needed more time to get an update) but it is certainly no good idea… and unnecessary.

  3. DannyBoy says:

    Another approach for better cameraphones might be to start from a good camera, i have in mind Sony rx100 and then to add phone features to it. How will be to see a rx100 experia with a 1080p 5″ display? It will be a little fat and bulky but it will be the best cameraphone ever! If the phones manufacturers will not understand that they have to fill the empty place left by the dead p&s cameras very fast and with quality cameraphones, they will struggle in vain for the slimest dumbest phone forever.

    • dss says:

      The rx100 is a great cam, but the 808 comes close enough to where it doesn’t matter..

      Its too bulky/heavy for a phone. The 808 is 159 grams and comfortably fits in a pocket.

      • milojko says:

        yah an RX100 with phone functions and huge screen and battery to power all of that will easily weigh >400 gram, a bit heavy for a cellphone

        • DannyBoy says:

          @dss 808 is nice (i have one) but rx100 is another story in IQ and everything else. where 808 come close is in good light pics. On the other hand, 808 have touch to focus on video that is very nice and rx100 dont. RX100 weights 213g without batt and 240g with it. So if u add a bigger screen and remove all the dials, i want it full touchscreen like Samsung G Camera, then you might get under 350g. And if you look at lumias 920-928 185g-162g that are some useless bricks in imaging then rx100 phone with ultimate iq/size at 300-350g will be nice. After the release of rx100, many people sells their bigger cameras and buyed rx100 because of it stuning iq. After the release of rx100 phone people will sell their rx100 and will buy this. So the market for this will be much larger than you can think now. The real problem is how to do that device because it will need 2 chips for sure and so on.

          • dss says:

            I know, i’ve tested the RX100 myself.. its a solid camera, and if i didn’t own an 808, I would probably go for the rx100.

            It still poses the question of having to carry that extra device, which is the whole point of having the 808.. no need for that extra device.

            As far as the weight.. you think a 300g phone would be okay ? That will be a “niche” device.. 300g+ is a bit too heavy for a smartphone.

            Let’s wait and see what Sony come up with.. i have a good feeling about it. I think it will slot between the N8 and the 808 in terms of IQ and flexibility, with android (spyware) on board.

            I think that it will be better than the EOS v1, or whatever they end up calling it.

            • DannyBoy says:

              It will be not a extra device, it will be the first real camera with a phone capacity. It will be a 808 on steroids :) . And as long as some people think that 808 is too heavy and bulky to buy and dont think about what you can do with it, there will be some people to think that about this device too. And also there will be some people that will be happy to buy it. I was thinking of this because i dont want also 2 devices in the pocket but i want a camera better than 808.
              808 is already a niche device. But is so niche because nokia didnt want to advert it like they should for the simple WP deal reason.
              But if Sony will promote it and it will be simple with the fame of rx100 it might get hoter than rx100. Will be the end of MP number war and some other software games.
              I think that nobody didnt do this so far because is not easy to design not because they didnt think of this.
              The phone Sony will release will be nice but not a breakthrough, just a response to rivals releases.
              Anyway at some point cameras industry will realise (based on the very low sales) that they have to change their offers.

          • milojko says:

            808 can come close to RX100 even in darker environment, that is if you know how :)

            • mirco says:

              Sorry, but the 808 is no threat for any semi professional camera. It starts from the simple things already: no variable apertue, no option for saving RAW files, not enough manual controls and no OIS…
              The 808 might come close in certain aspects when shoting a certain scenery but not in general. Just because the lens is really capable of reolving the > 30MPx and pureview manages to keep the noise low, doesn’t make it an overall better device or a replacement.

              Don’t get me wrong… for a phone camera its performance is simply off the scale but don’t lift it higher than it deserves.

              • Puhelimellanikin says:

                Very true.

                That’s what I have been saying and I was almost crucified for saying that.

                808 can’t even make P&S cameras obsolete because it doesn’t have certain features those have. Actually, because of the price, size and Symbian, 808 obsoletes less P&S cameras than some other phones.

                808 is a nice device and I have one but it definitely has lots of limitations.

              • DannyBoy says:

                +1

        • steelicon says:

          “milojko says:
          May 24, 2013 at 7:34 pm
          yah an RX100 with phone functions and huge screen and battery to power all of that will easily weigh >400 gram, a bit heavy for a cellphone”

          Slap in WP X.X on that and it will miraculously feel light. No WP X.X phone is heavy, it is “comfortably hefty”, “fits right in the hand” and is “solidly built”. :-)

  4. john says:

    true i like a solid built phone i can feel in my pockect.

  5. Benjamin says:

    I hope strongly it will not use pentile amoled!!! I’d rather it use IPS…

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